Back to Home / #openttd / 2012 / 11 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-18

---Logopened Sun Nov 18 00:00:31 2012
00:12-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.89] has joined #openttd
00:33-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
00:53-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD53D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:50-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
02:07-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
02:16-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
02:19-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
02:28-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
02:33<@Terkhen>good morning
02:35-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
02:58-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
03:10-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
03:13-!-Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd
03:38-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]]
03:44-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero]
03:46-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
03:54-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
03:57-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1B537.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:00-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero]
04:06-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
04:17<@planetmaker>moin
04:18<Eddi|zuHause>"we have put ten differences in this picture, can you spot them?" http://www.abload.de/img/dso001cgq9l.jpg http://www.abload.de/img/dso002ajoqq.jpg
04:20*planetmaker ponders. The engine got a livery refit. The animation stage of the station changed. The railtype was converted....
04:24<@planetmaker>so only 3 differences, Eddi|zuHause :-)
04:24<@Terkhen>the picture files have different names :P
04:24<Eddi|zuHause>the bridge in the background changed
04:24<Eddi|zuHause>the sky got brighter
04:24<Eddi|zuHause>the s-bahn train is missing
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>the wagon yard in the background changed
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>the baggage car is missing
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>the train changed direction
04:26<Eddi|zuHause>and there's a green arrow in the second picture :)
04:26<@planetmaker>:D
04:27-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:27-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:28<@Alberth>moin
04:28<@planetmaker>hi Alberth
04:28<Eddi|zuHause>(picture shows Berlin, Warschauer Straße, in case abyone can't read the sign :) )
04:29<Eddi|zuHause>*anyone
04:31<@Alberth>the first picture is 10 times more beautiful
04:31<@planetmaker>:-)
04:31-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
04:32-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
04:36-!-Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
05:10-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
05:22-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
05:24-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero]
05:28<Eddi|zuHause>"Add text filter to load savegame/scenario/heightmap GUI. (similar to NewGRF GUI; wrt. "save" see "hard tasks")" <- since we now have multiple edit boxes (i heard), the "save" part shouldn't be hard anymore
05:31-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-93-208.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
05:33-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-096-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
05:33*Alberth is confused how load and save are connected
05:35-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.87.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>the save window already had an edit box for the savegame name
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>the load window didn't have an edit box before
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>thus you could easily add an edit box to the load window, but not the save window
05:37<@Alberth>to me, the problem under 'hard tasks' is about saving the gui information, not about a 2nd editbox
05:38<@Alberth>which I can imagine as being hard
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>saving the gui status is filed under medium tasks on this page: http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list
05:39<@Alberth>yeah, I was reading the wrong part, sorry
05:42-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@p57978AA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:43<@Alberth>I don't see how that task is useful tbh, perhaps we should remove it.
05:45-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd
06:17<Zuu>It could be useful if you want to save over some file which you only remember the name partially and the save list is long. Though, I agree on that the load filter is probably more useful.
06:35-!-Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus]
06:51-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
06:56-!-KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.125.238] has joined #openttd
07:06<__ln__>гоод морнингь
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>latin alphabet only! :p
07:11<Rubidium>vhy mvst yov?
07:11<__ln__>that demand is not ivstified
07:12<Rubidium>if yov vant to obey that rvle yov mvst be named Eddi|zvHavse
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>extended latin alphabet only! ;)
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>(you would have needed to use capital letters, anyway :))
07:17<Ammler>is the encoding a channel setting?
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>the channel does not know anything about encoding, it's purely client side
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>the channel/server only processes byte streams
07:21-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
07:28-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work]
07:33-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:39-!-Psyk [~Psyk@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
07:46-!-dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
07:46-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:50-!-Psyk [~Psyk@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:51-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
07:52-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:40-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
08:40-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit []
08:48-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd
08:58-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-063-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
08:58-!-DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.190] has joined #openttd
09:13-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
09:17-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd
09:19-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
09:20<DanMacK>Hey all
09:25-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-096-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:27<@Alberth>o/
09:40-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
09:48-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd
09:48-!-Superuser [~Superuser@host81-129-85-191.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
09:48<Superuser>Translation question for everyone
09:48<Superuser>{BIG_FONT}{WHITE}{PRESIDENT_NAME} of {COMPANY} achieves '{STRING}' status!
09:49-!-Mikk36 [~mikk36@82.131.14.0.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
09:49<Superuser>Can I use {G "he" "she" ""} (in my language ofc) before {PRESIDENT_NAME}
09:49<Mikk36>Hey
09:49<Superuser>it doesn't exist in the original token so I'm not sure if it's allowed
09:49<Mikk36>Is it just me having skipping sound effects in game?
09:49<Superuser>this is a hell of a lot more versatile than gettext but still
09:49<Mikk36>Using the default OpenSFX pack
09:50<Mikk36>Most common is missing the income sound
09:50<Superuser>what Operating System are you using Mikk36?
09:50<Mikk36>Win7x64
09:50<Superuser>hmm it should be working. I'm no MIDI expert though, so Ican't help you there :)
09:51<Mikk36>sometimes i hear them, but most of the time they skip
09:53<Superuser>Please get me in touch with a developer for my translation question which is further above. Cheers. The token in question is http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_HIGHSCORE_PRESIDENT_OF_COMPANY_ACHIEVES_STATUS
09:53<Superuser>So I'll just leave that message here till someone comes along and does the old !log
09:55<__ln__>Superuser: can't you just try if it works or not?
09:55<Superuser>No, at least not without recompiling
09:55<Superuser>as I understand it the translation file needs to be committed back to the repository before I can see it
09:56<Superuser>only the webmaster has access to that, I believe. And anyway, not a fan of compiling at all -.-
10:01<__ln__>what's the worst that can happen if you change it in the translator, wait a few days for a nightly build, and if it doesn't work as expected, revert it?
10:02<Superuser>Huh, not a bad idea
10:02<Superuser>though it would be nice if I could get an answer right now, as this could affect the entire translation
10:05<Superuser>oh boy, found an upstream error in the translation
10:05<Superuser>a map legend should always have the text in singular form
10:06<Superuser>OpenTTD's map legend is... inconsistent. Some parts are in singular, others in plural
10:10-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
10:10-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
10:15<@Alberth>Superuser: if your language has genders, it should work
10:15<Superuser>Great!
10:16<Superuser>But are you 100% sure? The original has no gender parameter or whatever the {G} thing is called
10:17<@Alberth>I can try, what should I change?
10:17<@Alberth>ie what file?
10:19<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_HIGHSCORE_PRESIDENT_OF_COMPANY_ACHIEVES_STATUS
10:19<Superuser>if that's what you mean
10:20<@Alberth>openttd/play/src/lang/greek.txt:754: warning: STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION: Param idx #0 'PRESIDENT_NAME' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' <-- I am afraid it doesn't work, I hacked
10:20<@Alberth>STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION :{WHITE}{G "he" "she" ""}{PRESIDENT_NAME}
10:21<@Alberth>but it does sound like a good feature you may want to have
10:21<Superuser>yep
10:22<Superuser>the sentence doesn't make sense without the gender in front of the prez's name
10:22<Superuser>so I guess I'll roll it back, I'll keep it bookmarked though in case you decide to change it :)
10:22<@Alberth>I'll add the feature to the todo list at the wiki
10:23<Superuser>AFAIK it should work just by changing the token in the code
10:23<Superuser>it will, however, break every single translation
10:23<Superuser>if you change it
10:24<Superuser>Anyway, OpenTTD's support of translations is really impressive. I've been in the OSS translation field (I should really go professional one of these days...) for years, never have I come across such a thorough system
10:25<@Alberth>It won't break anything afaik, the {G ..} thingie is optional
10:26<@Alberth>ie it reads a parameter, but does 'eat' it, so the parameter is still available for use by the 'real' use.
10:27-!-DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:28<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list#Medium added, 3rd item
10:28<@Alberth>Superuser: yeah, I don't understand why gettext doesn't have it
10:29<@Alberth>(I looked at gettext some time ago and it was missing some things)
10:29<Superuser>Two reasons: firstly, it is terribly outdated and has been around since the 1980s, and secondly, it is made by Americans :)
10:30<Yexo><Alberth> openttd/play/src/lang/greek.txt:754: warning: STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION: Param idx #0 'PRESIDENT_NAME' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' <-- I am afraid it doesn't work, I hacked <- that test is wrong
10:30<@Alberth>:o
10:30<Superuser>Qt's .ts and the XML-based XLIFF format are just the same actually
10:30<Yexo>Alberth: the error you get there is because you substituted {STRING} with {PRESIDENT_NAME}, which is not valid
10:30<Yexo>{"PRESIDENT_NAME", EmitSingleChar, SCC_PRESIDENT_NAME, 1, C_NONE | C_GENDER}, <- from strgen_tables.h
10:30<Yexo>it's listed there as having a gender, so it should work
10:31<Yexo>that doesn't mean it will work though ;)
10:31<@Alberth>oh, of course!
10:31<@Alberth>Superuser: so please test the feature, revert the revert :)
10:31<@Alberth>thanks Yexo!
10:32<Yexo>Superuser: with regard to testing: if you download http://www.openttd.org/en/download-strgen from there and english.txt from the repo you can easily create the .lng files yourself and test that way
10:33<Superuser>the last one was generated in 2011...
10:33<@Alberth>Superuser: I was looking into making a more generic translation service, and being able to leverage gettext would be awesome
10:33<Yexo>looking at strings.cpp I'm pretty sure it won't actually work, but I'll do some testing
10:33<@Alberth>Superuser: strgen does not change very often
10:34<Yexo>it's been updated this year though
10:34<Yexo>TrueBrain: is http://www.openttd.org/en/download-strgen still supposed to be valid?
10:34<Yexo>if not, could you remove the url / mention it's outdated on that page
10:34<Yexo>if it is, please update the CF to build strgen
10:36<Superuser>BTW, who actually ensures consistency amongst the strings used in the game? I've found a couple of upstream errors.
10:36<Superuser>Though only someone like me would notice them, as they are very minor
10:36<Yexo>for translations the individual translators are responsible for that
10:37<Yexo>for UK English all devs try to maintain consistency
10:37<Superuser>No, I mean errors in the English source file
10:37<Yexo>in any case: please do report errors
10:37<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_NEWS_MESSAGES_ALL there should be a space between 'Summary' and the forward slash (/) that follows it
10:37<Superuser>yes, literally that small, haha
10:38<Yexo>locally fixed
10:38<Superuser>yes, I fixed it :-)
10:39<Yexo>I meant to say: I've fixed it locally in my repo, which means I'll commit it when I have some more
10:39<Yexo>You can't change the English strings
10:39<Superuser>oh I thought you meant the translated token
10:40<Superuser>sorry about calling them tokens, I'm just used to gettext
10:42<Superuser>just wondering, road vehicles can only crash with trains, right? Never with each other or with aeroplanes falling from the sky?
10:43<Yexo>correct
10:44<Superuser>it would be awesome though if the latter could actually happen. OpenTTD would definitely earn the NetHack distinction of 'The Dev Team thinks of everything' on TVTropes
10:45<@Alberth>it seems to always select the first gender
10:45<@Alberth>which is a bug :)
10:47<Yexo>I was trying to fix it but now I realize it's not easy
10:48<Yexo>there is no mapping from "male/female" (which is defined for faces which we could use) to the genders used by translations
10:48<Yexo>all current translations seems to use "male female ...others..." in that order, so mapping to 0/1 works
10:49<Yexo>but that feels like a very big hack
10:50<Superuser>Can towns have genders?
10:50<Yexo>no
10:50<Superuser>Ouch.
10:50<Yexo>hmm, sorry
10:50<Yexo>strgen says they can
10:51<Yexo>but I don't think any of the default translations has genders for towns
10:51<Superuser>I s'pose
10:51<Yexo>And a NewGRF townname wouldn't be able to provide them since town names are not translatable
10:51<Superuser>Though I know that the German language has genders and there is a German-language town-naming scheme in OpenTTD
10:52<Yexo>Superuser: sure, but you can use german town names combined with the greek language
10:52<Yexo>in which case gender mappings are not trivial or even possible
10:52<@Alberth>town names are also often constructed from random parts
10:53<Superuser>yeah I guess
10:53<Superuser>so it'll just have to sound awkard :)
10:58<Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/manager_gender.diff <- with this diff the {PRESIDENT_NAME} really has a gender
10:58<Yexo>but as said before: it's a hack that assumes 0 means male and 1 female
11:00<Superuser>Would this work for this string as well? http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_PRESIDENT_NAME_MANAGER
11:00<Yexo>that's the one I tested it on
11:00-!-flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd
11:00<Superuser>sehr gut
11:02<Yexo>wrt genders for town names: how would that work conceptually?
11:02<Yexo>can those genders be defined in a language-agnostic way?
11:04-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really know where german town names' genders would be relevant. except in special cases as "the bronx"
11:06<Superuser>In {G}, some previous translators did not separate gender casese with quotation marks. Should these have quotes added around each gender case?
11:06<Superuser>or word in general, it's a very flexible system.
11:07<Yexo>the quotes are optional and only required if you want to use } or spaces
11:07<Superuser>okay
11:07<Yexo>or an empty string, which without quotes would not be different from nothing
11:07<Superuser>I'll add them anyway as they are more expressive
11:10<Superuser>{BIG_FONT}{BLACK}New {STRING} being planted near {TOWN}!
11:11<Superuser>NEVER seen this message before, and I'm pretty sure you can't fund forests...
11:11<+michi_cc>I don't think defining genders language-agnostic is really feasible. How do you define something if one language has masculine/feminin, another human/non-human, animate/inanimate or male (human)/anything else?
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: there is an option to fund primary industries (forests, mines, farms, plantations)
11:12<Superuser>at least it works for Indo-European languages, probably
11:12<Superuser>wow I had no idea, how do you do that?
11:14<Yexo>it's used for forest, fruit plantation, rubber plantation and cotton candy forest by default
11:14<Yexo>Superuser: there is an option in the advanced settings window, I think under "economy->industries"
11:14<@Alberth>it is there indeed
11:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24754 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2012-11-18 16:14:31 UTC)
11:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5367]: crash on corrupted savegame
11:14<TrueBrain>Yexo: talk to Rubidium about those things
11:14<Superuser>Ahhh, thanks
11:15<Superuser>Not that I actually fund industries, it's not terribly difficult to have won the game by then and in MP others do it for you :) (but I never win at MP games, ever)
11:15<TrueBrain>Yexo: those download pages sync with finger. Rubidium always keeps finger in sync with reality ;)
11:16<TrueBrain>(I am not in touch with OpenTTD development as such, so I wouldn't know what is valid and what is not ;))
11:16<Yexo>finger.openttd.org lists the same version as on the download page, so that is in sync indeed
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose the build of strgen was just not triggered automatically
11:17<Superuser>{G 0:2 Ο Η Το} <--- what on earth is 0:2 meant to mean?
11:17<Rubidium>strgen there is meant for those that don't have a compiler and want to locally work on string changes/improvements
11:17<TrueBrain>and I wouldn't know if it should or not; I have others telling me that :D
11:17<Yexo>Superuser: second substring of first string
11:17<Rubidium>so it should still be functioning
11:18<Superuser>I'm thinking of Python's slicing feature, but I know little about scripting anyway...
11:18<Yexo>Superuser: the string that has that {G 0:2} should also have a {STRINGn} in there, with n being a number
11:18<TrueBrain>Ammler / planetmaker / whoever: almost every day hg.openttdcoop gives a 504: Gateway timeout
11:19<Rubidium>r24668 seems to be the last rev that should exist
11:19<Yexo>the {STRINGn} is a substring with n arguments, the 2 means it refers to the second (maybe third) argument for that substring
11:19<Superuser>it doesn't and it doesn't make sense. It's used for when an industry announced imminent closure
11:19<Superuser>in this particular case
11:19<Superuser>so I guess I'll just have to remove the 0:2
11:19<Yexo>wait a minute, which exact string is that?
11:20<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_NEWS_INDUSTRY_CLOSURE_GENERAL
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: why remove something that you have no clue what it does?
11:20<Superuser>because I just (I think) figured out what it does
11:20<Superuser>thanks to the ever helpful Yexo
11:20<Superuser>Yexo, the master of regex
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>{INDUSTRY} probably has substrings as well (town name, industry name)
11:21<Yexo>indeed
11:21<Yexo>the 0:2 is there because it wants the gender of the industry
11:21<Yexo>the {STRING2} is in english.txt, all translations just have {STRING}
11:22<Ammler>TrueBrain: we are aware of that, testing different hg servers for the big 32bpp ez repos
11:22<Superuser>would that not be required for every use of {G} then?
11:22<TrueBrain>Ammler: every day for the past week?
11:22<Ammler>kinda thought, I found something good with rhodecode :-)
11:22<Superuser>so 0:1 for first two genders
11:22<Yexo>Superuser: by default G refers to the next parameter
11:22<Superuser>0 for the first, et al
11:23<TrueBrain>s/week/two weeks/
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: there are some defaults which usually don't need to be overridden
11:23<Yexo>{STRING3} {INDUSTRY} {PRESIDENT_NAME} {G x}
11:23<Ammler>TrueBrain: how frequently does your cf pull?
11:24<TrueBrain>it has 200+ errors in 2 weeks
11:24<Superuser>oh I see, it just ignores {BIG_FONT}, {BLACK} and itself, then
11:24<TrueBrain>so I would guess every hour
11:24<Yexo>{G 0} would refer to {STRING3}, {G 0:1} refers to the second argument of the {STRING3}, {G 1} refers to {INDUSTRY}, {G 2} refers to {PRESIDENT_NAME}, {G no_number} is not valid since there is no value after it
11:24<Yexo>yes, BIG_FONT, BLACK (and other colors) etc. which don't accept any parameters are ignored
11:24<Superuser>... or I should just give up trying to understand this stuff, as it flies way over my head.
11:24<Superuser>Thanks for the copious explanation though.
11:25<Ammler>TrueBrain: we still run the hgweb via hgweb.openttdcoop.org
11:26<Ammler>hmm, but maybe we should rollback hg.o.o to hgweb and search something else :-(
11:27-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
11:28-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:28<Ammler>TrueBrain: what backend do you use for hgweb?
11:29<Superuser>err, guys, EMU doesn't stand for European Monetary Union, it stands for Economic and Monetary Union.
11:29<Superuser>Please correct this in STR_NEWS_EURO_INTRODUCTION
11:30<Superuser>The cynic in me wonders just how long it will last
11:30<MNIM>no, EMU stands for Electrical Multiple Unit!
11:30<MNIM>tssssk
11:30<MNIM>in #openttd no less.
11:30<Superuser>xD
11:31<TrueBrain>Ammler: hgweb.cgi, I am guessing
11:34<Rubidium>Superuser: Superuser where does that news message speak about the EMU?
11:35-!-EaGl3 [~wide@69.9.122.163] has joined #openttd
11:35<Superuser>when you currency changes to the Euro
11:35<Rubidium>it just speaks about a European monetary union, which the Euro defacto is.
11:35<Rubidium>the EMU is from well before the actual introduction of the Euro
11:35<Superuser>Nevertheless, the actual name is the Economic and Monetary Union
11:35<Superuser>the American media calls it that to avoid confusion
11:35<Superuser>http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/emu_history/index_en.htm
11:39<Rubidium>Superuser: if we call it Economic and Monetary Union, then the UK must be part of it as well
11:40<Rubidium>and the news message would imply that the UK would have the Euro as well
11:40<Superuser>UK has an opt-out of both the ERM and ERM-II and the EMU...
11:40<Superuser>afaik it doesn't come up with gbp
11:41<Rubidium>after all you only have the Euro after entering the third EMU stage
11:42<Rubidium>ah well, otherwise you still have Denmark, Latvia and Lithuania in the first or second EMU stage
11:44<Rubidium>but by the looks of it, the UK is in the EMU with a special clause where they are not forced to go to EMU stage 3
11:44<Rubidium>as a result I would say "Economic and Monetary Union: The euro is introduced" is worse than
11:45<Rubidium>"European monetary union: The euro is introduced"
11:45<Superuser>I think you'd need to have a very poor appreciation of context to be confused by that.
11:46<Superuser>BTW, you were thinking of the EEC, not the EMU when you said it had been around since before the EMU (which introduced the European Central Bank and so on)
11:47<Rubidium>ah well... in a sense all currencies in OpenTTD are in the second stage of EMU
11:49<Rubidium>EMU started in 1990, Euro was introduced in 2002
11:51<NGC3982>No gold-pressed latinum, though. :/.
11:52<NGC3982>-.
11:56<Superuser>oh well, I translated to Economic and Monetary Union anyway, not only because it's more correct, but also because 'European Monetary Union' doesn't exist as a term in Greece
11:57-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
11:58<Rubidium>how would you translate "greek political union: greek politic parties unite on XYZ"?
11:59<Superuser>HAHAHAHAHA
11:59<Superuser>+1
12:00<Rubidium>the union in the news message is the "act of uniting or joing two or more things into one", not "a confederation of independent nations for a common purpose"
12:01<Rubidium>in the latter case you would be correct that European monetary union is incorrect, in the former case it's not as they really united at that point in a monetary union, i.e. the Euro
12:02<Superuser>It doesn't matter. It's talking about a real-life historical event. The Economic and Monetary Union of the EU exists specifically for the Eurozone
12:02<Yexo>if it's not a name shouldn't it be spelled as "Economic and monetary union" instead of "Economic and Monetary Union"?
12:02<Superuser>so the definition is irrelevant, we're talking about a real-life organisation that brands itself that way. Hence, Economic and Monetary Union!
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>how about calling it "European Economic and Monetary Union"?
12:03<Superuser>That is incorrect, that's the problem
12:03<Superuser>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_and_Monetary_Union_of_the_European_Union
12:04<Superuser>the 'of the European Union' is added to distinguish the article from the general term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_and_monetary_union
12:04<Superuser>AFK.
12:04-!-Superuser is now known as Superuser|AFK
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: "european" is not a part of the name, it's a qualification, there might as well be an american one or an african one
12:04<Rubidium>ugh...
12:04<Rubidium>why is it so hard to understand the subtle nuance between the unite and united meaning of union?
12:05<Superuser|AFK>Yeah, I was saying that since we mention the Euro it's obvious which one the game is referring to. AFK for real now, lol
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser|AFK: and we were saying you're alone with that opinion
12:06<Rubidium>so, could just as well replace monetary with currency
12:06<Rubidium>wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence, except for Superuser
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>could be also a way :)
12:08<Rubidium>or...
12:09<Rubidium>we use "Economic and monetary union: if all goes well the euro will be introduced as sole currency in your country in X years"
12:10<Rubidium>and then show the message in 1990 (or later depending on when the country joined the EMU)
12:11<Rubidium>interestingly enough, in OpenTTD, all currencies fullfil the rules for the the third stage of EMU
12:12<APTX>Rubidium: aren't they all related to the pound?
12:12<Rubidium>i.e. fixed exchange rates to the Euro
12:13<Rubidium>APTX: that still leaves a fixed exchange rate to the Euro
12:13<APTX>that's funny as gbp doesn't fulfill the criteria :P
12:15<V453000>Hi, vehicle_is_reversed [0 | 1] No Value is 1 if the vehicle has reversed an odd number of times <--- does this apply also when the vehicle is reversed by the FLIP in the depot by ctrl+click?
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: no, that has a separate variable
12:19<V453000>hm dont you by chance remember which variable that is?
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm. i don't remember the last time that was discussed
12:22*Rubidium hopes when I was absent ;)
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>i think you can read that from var48
12:26<V453000>I am not sure what do you mean by that, but if I want to make flipped trains have like an info sprite on them - like an arrow -, does using extra_callback_info1 help, or is there any other variable I am missing?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>no, var 48+80
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>return HasBit(Train::From(v)->flags, VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION) ? 0xFE : 0xFD;
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>so 0xFD for normal, 0xFE for reversed
12:31<V453000>is that in NML?
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see it
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>but you can access arbitrary vars with "var[num, shift, mask]"
12:32-!-Superuser|AFK is now known as Superuser
12:33<Superuser>Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium: oh well, the whole debate was about something completely pedantic, no idea why you got so worked up about it
12:33<Superuser>I still think it's more legitimate, but if you genuinely think it's confusing, the choice is yours. I have no commit access.
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: because it was about someting completely pedantic, and imho made the message less clear
12:34<Superuser>Not really, but I don't think there's much point in arguing this anymore. Sudo end bickering.
12:35-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: actually, i think this is the wrong one as well
12:37<V453000>:D :)
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's right
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION is the ctrl+click flip and VRF_TOGGLE_REVERSE is the automatic reverse-in-stations/end-of-track/button-in-train-window
12:41<V453000>I am still trying to find it on the tt-wiki
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>naming could be improved
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>C8 B Sprite type; FD for trains forward, FE or FF when reversed
12:43<V453000>ah I see it
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>this flag doesn't seem to be set for the rear part of a multiheaded vehicle, is this intended?
12:45<V453000>hm well multihead cant flip
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>no, the second part is automatically flipped
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>not sure where or how
12:45<V453000>yeah but you cant use the flip feature on it
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>but the newgrf might still want to know whether it's drawing the flipped version
12:46<V453000>that is true
12:55<V453000>what is the shift,mask in the var[num, shift, mask] ? I am trying something like http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1943/
12:55<V453000>does that make any sense?
12:56-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>shift and mask are the same as for NFO variables, i.e. 0 and 0xFF for a byte variable. no idea if nml has that as default
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>it's kind of a hidden feature :)
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Deprecated_syntax
12:59-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@p57978AA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:02-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:03<V453000>does that mean I can ignore the shift and mask?
13:04-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:06<Yexo>NML doesn't do byte variables, only 32-bit sized variables
13:06<Yexo>so use 0 and 0xFF respectively for byte-sized vars
13:07<V453000>uhm what does byte variable mean?
13:07<Yexo>variable that is 8 bits wide
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>the "B" in the NFO table
13:07<Yexo>so use var[0xC8, 0, 0xFF]
13:08<V453000>ohhh
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't really matter for openttd, as it always returns dword sized variables, but ttdpatch may have funny effects :)
13:09-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:10<V453000>looks like it is compiling, lets see the outcome :)
13:11<V453000>:D it works
13:11<V453000>thank you
13:14-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@p57978AA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:15-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
13:20<Ammler>TrueBrain: I switched back default hg backend to hgweb I will take the timeout errors in the log a bit more serious in the future ;-)
13:20-!-Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:21-!-Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd
13:25-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26-!-Superuser [~Superuser@host81-129-85-191.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero]
13:38-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:38-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
13:43-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit []
13:44-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24755 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-11-18 18:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 105 changes by Evropi
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 11 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 1 changes by Joel_A
13:49-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
14:07-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:10-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffe18.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
14:32<Nat_aS>does cargodist have it's own channel?
14:33-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:39<Yexo>no
14:40-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:41-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:43-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:50<andythenorth>Yexo: can you replicate the rather large bug with CHIPS non-track tiles? o_O
14:52<__ln__>ferrari is communicating in italian to f. alonso
14:54-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:57<NGC3982>Ayaya! Speedapa mistar allanza!
14:59-!-flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: why wouldn't they?
15:08-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d547:ac9e:d4:9843] has joined #openttd
15:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
15:20-!-Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:37-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
15:47-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
15:49-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
15:53-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-096-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
15:56<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: dunno, because radio traffic has been otherwise english only
15:57<__ln__>i wonder if the texasian audience was impressed by how well lewis hamilton spoke english
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>you mean american? :)
16:03<__ln__>that too
16:09-!-Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
16:24<@Terkhen>good night
16:28-!-APTX_ [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd
16:29-!-bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29-!-APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:52-!-Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus]
16:56-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:02-!-Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p549FA440.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:05-!-Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:16-!-M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
17:22-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:27-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER]
17:28-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-096-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:33-!-EaGl3 [~wide@69.9.122.163] has quit []
17:40-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffe18.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:40<__ln__>http://www.aftenbladet.no/nyheter/okonomi/Brukte-whisky-for-a-fjerne-is-fra-vingene-3071550.html
17:44-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
17:54-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@p57978AA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi]
17:56-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:56-!-bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd
17:58-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:00-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:00<__ln__>does anyone know what's "short circuit" (noun) in latin?
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think they had words for electricity :)
18:01<__ln__>damn
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>but i never learned latin
18:03<+glx>but "curtus circuitus" should be equivalent
18:04<__ln__>gratias
18:05<+glx>(based on french court-circuit)
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>somehow that reminds me of "schwanzus longus"
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>[which is from the life of brian]
18:08-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
18:08*__ln__ is thinking about a name for a piece of software he's thinking of writing
18:09-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>wait, you already program _before_ you have a name?
18:17<__ln__>you could call it a proof-of-concept of an empty application window. choosing a name is of course a blocker for creating an svn repo.
18:19<__ln__>the BeOS api for GUI applications seems quite nice actually.
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder if i still have my collection of programs named "x", "xx", "xxx" ...
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>8 letters were so limiting back then :)
18:25-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero]
18:26-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:28<__ln__>coming up with names is a hard task in general
18:32-!-KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.125.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:43-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []
18:58-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1B537.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:26<DDR>Especially a name that's untaken on the internet.
19:29-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:04-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-063-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
20:33-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DDFD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
20:37-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DD62.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:38-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd
20:49-!-EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:54-!-EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
21:19-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.13.205.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:49-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
21:50-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
21:55-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd
21:59-!-perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit []
22:02-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.146] has joined #openttd
22:43-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d547:ac9e:d4:9843] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
23:13-!-Wuzzy2 [~Wuzzy@p549F9BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
23:13-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:15-!-Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@p549FA440.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:18-!-ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Mon Nov 19 00:00:32 2012