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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-20

---Logopened Tue Nov 20 00:00:34 2012
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00:31<Tiktalik>So what's OpenTTD
00:31<Flygon>You build trains and crash them for fun
00:32<Flygon>And then bribe the authorities so that they 'forget' your past crashes
00:32<Tiktalik>...So basically, a railroad building game?
00:32<Flygon>While mindwashing the public with large advertising campaigns
00:32<Flygon>Basically
00:32<Flygon>It's a transport simulation game
00:32<Flygon>Not just railroad :)
00:34<Tiktalik>Oh, okay.
00:34<Tiktalik>Is there a tutorial?
00:35<Flygon>Uuuh
00:35<Flygon>Good question
00:35<Flygon>There's a very good manual
00:35<Flygon>But the best way to learn is really to play and ask for help...
00:35<Flygon>Railroads, in particular, can be a huge case of "I'm way in over my head"
00:37<Tiktalik>Flygon: What things should I download for it, and should I use the Reddit version, or the stable version
00:40<Flygon>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable I recommend the one from here
00:40<Flygon>http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD Manual here
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00:55<Flygon>Tiktalik, by the way. Another good way to learn, is to play with others, that may be willing to help teach
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01:53<Tiktalik>I have A BUSSSS
02:00<Tiktalik>Flygon: How do you get airports to...make more profit?
02:01<Flygon>Airports work best when adjacent to large cities
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02:09<Tiktalik>Flygon: Is 500 large enough?
02:09<Flygon>500 passengers?
02:09<Tiktalik>Flygon: Population
02:10<Tiktalik>nvm
02:10<Tiktalik>better idea
02:10<Flygon>500 uh
02:10<Flygon>Yeah, isn't much
02:10<Tiktalik>wait on airports until cities get bigger
02:10<Tiktalik>start a new game
02:10<Flygon>Airports work best on 2500+
02:10<Tiktalik>and play better tomorrow
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04:19<NGC3982>Morning.
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04:36<@peter1138>Morning
04:36<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/Yi7Z3.png
04:36<NGC3982>That looks odd
04:36<NGC3982>It can't find a way to the depot..
04:41<@peter1138>Put a signal closer to it
04:41<@peter1138>(also, use path signals properly)
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04:50<@peter1138>((or don't use them, i suppose))
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05:59<Eddi|zuHause>the track layout needs some thought as well :)
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>switching from left side to right side within a junction is asking for trouble :p
06:01<V453000>czech page but amazing image :D http://www.rouming.cz/roumingShow.php?file=-You_are_right-______19.11.2012.jpg
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW2fOAY-fqg
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06:07<V453000>:DD
06:07<V453000>thats nice
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07:01*MNIM chuckles
07:01<MNIM>nice, V453000
07:02<MNIM>also, lol, switching from left to right in a junction is trouble?
07:02<MNIM>it would make some of my junctions a lot easier!
07:03<V453000>what do you actually mean switching left to right?
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07:14<@peter1138>drive-on-left to drive-on-right
07:36<Flygon>Real men drive on the left
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>the left side is not the right side
07:37<Flygon>You're going to hate Australia
07:37<Flygon>Except for when performing hook turns
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>i have no real ambitions to go to australia :)
07:38<Flygon>Aw
07:38<Flygon>Not even to see the giant beer?
07:38<Flygon>Or the giant Koala?
07:38<Flygon>Or the giant Boxing Crocodile?
07:38<Flygon>http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/monkeyjedi/crocodileNT.jpg
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>now that i have seen it on the internet... why would i need to go to australia then?
07:41<Flygon>It looks bigger irl
07:41<Flygon>You should also see our trains :B
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>we have trains in germany as well... :)
07:42<Flygon>We know
07:42<Flygon>You help built them :P
07:42<Flygon>http://railgallery.wongm.com/vlocity-3vl42/image/595/E104_6051.jpg A combination of German and Australian engineering. Shame it can't go as fast as it's design speed. Whooooooo, Australian tracks. =/
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>over here they build tracks for a design speed of 300km/h, but no new trains will go that fast, and they have too few of the old trains anyway
07:44<Flygon>Ahh
07:44<Flygon>Here, we have tracks that handled the fast trains going over 200km/h in trials, but only handle 160km/h in service >_>"
07:45<Flygon>Well, fast by Diesel standards
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, for >160km/h you need in-cab-signalling and no level crossings in germany
07:48<Flygon>Same in Australia
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>and for in-cab-signalling you have different system, like the old german LZB and the new european ETCS (level 2)
07:48<Flygon>Though
07:48<Flygon>You're allowed up to 180km/hish in overspeed
07:48<Flygon>And apperantly some of my friends recorded over 190km/h with GPS.... overspeed protection disabled? @_@"
07:48<MNIM>wait, Flygon
07:49<MNIM>since when do trains go over 100kmh in australia?
07:49<Flygon>Should I answer that seriously?
07:49<MNIM>yes
07:49<Flygon>Since around 1900 to 1910
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>:)
07:49<Flygon>But in regular service, I'd estimate around 1920 to 1930
07:49<MNIM>'cause I thought i learned somewhere that trains in australia were ridiculously slow.
07:50<MNIM>like, 90kmh at most slow.
07:50<Flygon>Ah
07:50<Flygon>Depends on the region and line
07:51<Flygon>eg. The Spirit of Progress (Steam Train) reached 138km/h in 1938ish (paper speed recorder ran out of paper)... it didn't go faster because it was getting over half an hour ahead of timetable, iirc
07:51<Flygon>But usually ran between 80 to 115km/h
07:51<Flygon>Modern trains go between 65 to 177km/h, depending on the line and train
07:52<Flygon>The TransWA Prospector will be upgraded to 200km/h, though (using very very similar rollingstock to the V/Line fast trains)
07:54<Flygon>Most suburban lines in Victoria go between 65 to 115km/h (though, older EMU's have been accidentally driven up to 130km/h... only limitation is substation capacity and line length, or burning out the motors if you went too fast :p), with an average of 80km/hish
07:56<Flygon>V/Line lines range between 80km/h to 160 (177)km/h, with 80km/h on lesser used branch lines (or because of unprotected level crossings), 115km/h for locomotive hauled trains (though, tests were conducted for 160km/h+ running in the 80s with a rebuilt A-class), and the fast trains go full speed, obviously
07:56<Flygon>But I can only speak for Victoria in detail
07:57<Flygon>New South Wales has a BR Intercity 125 derivative introdued around 1980 that goes 160km/h regulary (193km/h in tests, partially due to different gearing and crappy as hell tracks), Queensland has the QR Tilt Trains (Diesel and Electric versions) that top out @ 160km/h (210-230km/h in tests... whoo, Shinkansen :B), but rarely reach it because... shoddy tracks, not helped by Narrow Gauge >_>"
07:57<Flygon>Point is
07:58<Flygon>We have some 'fast' trains
07:58<Flygon>But MNIM's right, many trains can be absurdly slow
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08:35<NGC3982>Diagonal bridges.
08:35<NGC3982>Yes please.
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>interesting "switch": http://s7.directupload.net/images/121105/kj3gyhg6.jpg http://s7.directupload.net/images/121105/dneb2khn.jpg
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08:41<__ln__>probably one that is used twice a decade, or something.
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that sounds about right :)
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>afaik they delivered a transformer
08:42<__ln__>delivering transformers is exactly the reason that i know of for such switches to exist
08:44<Flygon>Oooh, diagonal bridges
08:44*Flygon drools
08:45<Flygon>But we'll probably get a cable car railtype before diagonal bridges...
08:46<@peter1138>Not surprising; the former can be done with NewGRFs already, the latter can't.
08:46<Flygon>Even better, though
08:46<Flygon>Would be flexible tunnels, inc sub-ocean
08:46<Flygon>True subways!
08:47<Flygon>I can't care if the Eurostar would be 10m a tile, it'd be a darned Eurostar :D
08:52<MNIM>woah.
08:52<MNIM>and here I thought mail didn't go by train any more.
08:52<MNIM>https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_Postal
08:52<MNIM>never too old to learn!
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08:54<MNIM>NGC3982: where?
08:57<Flygon>Aw
08:57<Flygon>No English article
08:57<Flygon>Oh
08:58<Flygon>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_TGV_La_Poste It's in French in English
08:58<Flygon>...
08:58<Flygon>The English are idiots
08:59<@peter1138>Pardon?
09:01<Flygon>The English speakers are a bit confusing in their article names
09:01<Flygon>And I say that as a monolingualist :B
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09:03<@peter1138>Not really, it's the name of the thing it's talking about.
09:05<Flygon>I would have presumed there'd be a redirect from 'TGV Postal' to 'SNCF TGV La Poste'
09:05<Flygon>Ehh
09:05<Flygon>But, you're right
09:05<Flygon>I'm losing my nut over nothing
09:05<Flygon>Sorry for the fuss x:
09:05<@peter1138>Don't lose your nuts, they're important.
09:06<Flygon>On one hand, I want to make a witty remark
09:06<Flygon>On the other, I don't want to be /kickban'd
09:06<@peter1138>I haven't done that for years :D
09:06<Flygon>Because I cannnot figure out how to turn off my client's auto-rejoin
09:06<Flygon>Lucky bugger
09:07<Flygon>Then again
09:07<Flygon>You know policing is working, when policing is unnecessary
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10:03<frosch123>oh, confused simuscape with simutrans
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10:07<@peter1138>?
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10:09<Eddi|zuHause>this simuscape site is stupid...
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>for AGES this captcha is broken
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>they haven't responded to it in any way
10:11<V453000>beyond all stupid
10:11<supermop>maybe it's not a bug, maybe it's a feature
10:11<@peter1138>Well it's SAC...
10:11<supermop>i don't imagine they are in a hurry to have new members
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>reverse captcha... it lets computers through and blocks humans :)
10:15<supermop>ok need to head into work
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11:21<NGC3982>MNIM: Here!
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11:23<MNIM>where here?
11:23<MNIM>'cause last time I looked, there
11:24<MNIM>'s no diagonal bridges in OTTD.
11:25<MNIM>also, whoops, I hadn't even noticed it was in dutch! XD
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11:28<MNIM>So, let me get this straight.
11:29<MNIM>the only high-speed train in the USA goes, on average, less than 120 in operation.
11:29<MNIM>...slower than dutch intercity material?
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>passenger rail in the USA is horribly underdeveloped
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>the only remotely busy non-commuter line is the "northeast corridor"
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>everything else of the rail network is cargo dominated, and some commuter lines in urban areas
11:31<MNIM>once again I feel I should be more than happy with the dutch public transport, but still Im not :P
11:31<MNIM>I want that 160kmh that is supposed to be possible!
11:35<MNIM>Or while we're at it, put a high-speed connection between Maastricht or Luik and Amsterdam and Schiphol.
11:35<MNIM>now *that* would cut into my current daily commute of 4h total. :D
11:35<@Belugas>hello
11:37<MNIM>And also I want that fast bus between Eindhoven and Den Bosch back. that would cut my commute time by half an hour :D
11:38<MNIM>well, one hour total, that is
11:38<frosch123>MNIM: dutch trains manage more than 120km/h average speed?
11:39<frosch123>120 feels a lot for _average_
11:39<frosch123>how far are the distances between the stops?
11:40<MNIM>not including stations, probably.
11:40*MNIM removes 'probably'
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11:42<FasterSoft2004>hy all
11:42<MNIM>well, as an example trip, let's take den bosch-utrecht. roughly 80km (87 by car according to google maps)
11:42<MNIM>with the car it takes uuuh
11:42<Rubidium>given max speed near stations is 40 km/h, min station waiting time is 3 minutes and basically max supported speed is 140 km/h, and stations are generally less than 30 minutes apart you will never reach > 120 km/h average
11:43<MNIM>whoops
11:43<MNIM>sorry, I mean eindhoven utrecht
11:43<Rubidium>the only exception could be the HSL
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11:43<MNIM>by car it takes 1h20m.
11:43<MNIM>by train, 50 minutes
11:44<MNIM>that includes stopping in den bosch in the middle
11:44<MNIM>and not with the car :P
11:44<frosch123>hmm, ok, wiki says first ice (1990, hamburg-munich) had 127km/h average
11:44<frosch123>and there is a lot of slow track on that line
11:44<frosch123>esp. back in 1991
11:44<Rubidium>actually the steam trains in the UK had (or still have?) a higher average than they have now
11:45<Rubidium>frosch123: too much altbaustrecke?
11:45<MNIM>so yeah, no 120 with a station in the middle, but it's going over that at some point in the voyage, that's for certain
11:45<Rubidium>MNIM: yep, even the sprinters reach near 140 km/h
11:46<frosch123>Rubidium: also a lot of stops, usually every 30 minutes
11:47<Rubidium>Amsterdam - Maastricht: 220-ish km in 2:26
11:47<frosch123>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2011.svg <- hmm, what might be "red"
11:48<Rubidium>Schiphol - Antwerpen: 160-ish km in 0:59
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11:49<frosch123>except for the 250 km/h from hanover to w├╝rzburg, everything seems to have been 230 in 1990 between hh and m
11:50<frosch123>but when i am travelling that route, it does not feel like 250 km/h all the time at all
11:50<Rubidium>Tokyo - Hakata: 313 minutes, 1174 km
11:50<frosch123>kassel - fulda feels more like 130
11:51<frosch123>which would be half of what the map says :o
11:51<frosch123>@calc 1174 / 313 * 60
11:51<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 225.047923323
11:53<Rubidium>Shin-Yokohama (30 km from Tokyo C) to Osaka (stopping at Nagoya and Kyoto): 524 km in 134 minutes
11:53<Rubidium>@calc 524/134*60
11:53<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 234.626865672
11:57<NGC3982>MNIM: Right here, in my own personal dimension.
11:57<Rubidium>@calc 622/145*60
11:57<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 257.379310345
11:57<Rubidium>so... you're better off going from Osaka to Hakata ;)
11:58<NGC3982>My where-abouts consist of a two dimensional plane, filled with flatlanders.
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11:58<NGC3982>That's why i'm in the New General Catalogue.
11:58<NGC3982>Thus: Diagonal bridges.
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11:59<Tiktalik>I have some bus stations
11:59<Tiktalik>They are making profit.
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12:01<@planetmaker>hello
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12:10<Tiktalik>is there a way to turn your view
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12:12<@planetmaker>nope
12:12<@planetmaker>but there are transparency options. ctrl+x
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12:25<Tiktalik>planetmaker: What's the red number below the loan stuff
12:26<V453000>your total balance?
12:26<@planetmaker>would be my guess, too. If you got negative money
12:26<V453000>well current money minus loan I think
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12:34<Tiktalik>V453000: It keeps climbing. I do believe that is bad.
12:34<V453000>:D well any climbing red numbers are usually sub-ideal
12:37<frosch123>V453000: if you owe 10 million to a bank, you are in trouble. if you owe 10 billion to a bank, the bank is in trouble
12:38<V453000>haha
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that was true only until 2008 :)
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13:37<@Terkhen>hello
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24758 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2012-11-20 18:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 2 changes by Evropi
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13:46<Matulla>Hi all got a Question on refitting tracks from Elektric Rail to Magnetic
13:46<Matulla>if i only in a Depo delete the Train Head
13:46<Matulla>can i replace the Train depo then
13:47<Matulla>so i dont lose the wagon and the running order
13:47<Matulla>sorry my english on this is not very good im german
13:48<@peter1138>Don't think so. The wagons are rail-type specific too.
13:48<Matulla>ah ok
13:49<@peter1138>Deleting the train head would forget all but the last train's orders too.
13:49<Matulla>this is quite a job
13:50<Matulla>to rebuild all the stuff maybe a scrreenshot on the train layouts that hit the staion will help me
13:51<@peter1138>I usually scrapped everything and built new trains.
13:51<@peter1138>With the increase in speed your fleet may need rearranging anyway.
13:51<Matulla>i also but on this track its dificult as the trains are not one cargo
13:51<@peter1138>Not to mention the curves :)
13:52<Matulla>and its always a miss if you loose the red ribbon on the cargo to be carried so it builds up
13:53<Matulla>This is quite the most far game i ever had in the last 4 real years and 25 Game years
13:53<Matulla>i usely play 2 games a Humen Year
13:53<NGC3982>Curves! Blasphemy.
13:54<Matulla>so by and save your game bevor crash
13:54<@peter1138>Pseudo curves
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13:55<Matulla>Oh one more question if trains got stuck or pileup on a track can i see this somwhere in the Data
13:56<Pinkbeast>I tend to have the list of stations open sorted by waiting cargo value. If trains are stuck, I can see it there (because uncollected cargo piles up).
13:57<Matulla>i also but weat and cole does not spent mutch so it is piling up alot
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14:00<Matulla>Do only small planes share runways at internatonal 4 runways but only 2 planes at the time
14:00<Matulla>lots of planes in the air but no landings at all
14:01<frosch123>there is no difference in small or large planes in the landing order
14:01<frosch123>but iirc 2 runways are landing, 2 are takeoff
14:02<Matulla>maybe im wrong on this but i see them curving around the airport as all are free
14:03<Matulla>ok Thanks im off By till the next session
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14:04<andythenorth>really?
14:04<andythenorth>the size of tiles is that important?
14:04<andythenorth>and that disappointing?
14:04*andythenorth has a bit of wtf
14:04<@Terkhen>what?
14:04<NGC3982>andythenorth: Do elaborate.
14:04<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=63422
14:05<andythenorth>I should not do this :P
14:05<andythenorth>it's bad community behaviour
14:07<Rubidium>physical tile sizes are just meant to say: the size does not matter
14:07<NGC3982>"As that topic also shows there were unresolved bugs. Adding new bugs is unacceptable, so those would have to be solved first. I don't think you understand the complexity of coding this properly."
14:08<NGC3982>It's a shame that game development almost always have to deal with this.
14:10<frosch123>we should do grudge matches playing ottd
14:10<frosch123>if you win, you are correct
14:10<NGC3982>No, if you win, you will have to code that feature.
14:10<NGC3982>:D
14:10<NGC3982>-win +loose. :(
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14:15<frosch123>ottd would be so easy if it would be a massive multiplayer online game
14:15<frosch123>every player would be one train/ship, and just route him/herself
14:16<NGC3982>I have actually had some thoughts about maps being created while building them.
14:16<NGC3982>For instance, areas being explored with rails, and such.
14:16<NGC3982>Not being related to a serious game, of course.
14:16<frosch123>i always disliked fog :p
14:16<NGC3982>No, not fog per say.
14:16<NGC3982>But a virtually infinite map
14:16<frosch123>only day/night or whether is worse
14:16<frosch123>*weather
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14:17<Wolf01>efening
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14:22<andythenorth>stupid mac crashed
14:23<FLHerne_>andythenorth: Yay linux!
14:23<FLHerne_>Unless it was a hardware thing, of course :P
14:23<andythenorth>yup, linux is guaranteed bug free
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14:27<Wolf01>hello Alberth
14:27<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:28<FLHerne_>andythenorth: It hasn't permacrashed on me in months, except power cuts :-)
14:29<frosch123>FLHerne_: just quote the ottd bug statistics
14:29<frosch123>i am quite sure they are representative for linux, osx, win 9x and win 8 bugs :p
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14:43<Wolf01>yay thunderbird 17, too bad I don't want to close the chat to let it update :P
14:44<frosch123>when will they catch up with simutrans?
14:45<@Alberth>is that related to thybderbird 17? :)
14:45<@Alberth>*thunderbird
14:45<frosch123>i mean wrt. version numbers
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14:46<@Alberth>perhaps after all translators stop translating?
14:46<frosch123>simutrans is at 112
14:47<@Alberth>wow, how did they do that? :)
14:47<@Alberth>ironbite is further, isn't it?
14:48<@Alberth>yep, it's at 149
14:48<frosch123>oh, looks like simutrans now has squirrel scripting
14:49<frosch123>scenario scripting
14:49<@Alberth>is squirrel related to lua btw?
14:50<Rubidium>somewhat-ish
14:50<@Alberth>I have that idea, not sure where I got it from
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14:52<Wolf01>looks like I downloaded the new borderlands 2 dlc, I could leave the chat and let thunderbird update
14:54<Rubidium>then do so!
14:54<Wolf01>I'll do!
14:54<Wolf01>good night!
14:54<Rubidium>night Wolf01
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14:56<@Alberth>bye Wolf01
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 20 15:02:34 2012
---Logopened Tue Nov 20 15:02:43 2012
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15:26<frosch123>so, simutrans has an api to disallow construction of certain infrastructure types in rectangular areas
15:26<frosch123>is that also something for ottd?
15:27<frosch123>like denying clearing/landscaping/rail/road/canal/stationtype per company per rectangle
15:27<frosch123> /industryconstruction/...
15:30<@Alberth>industry construction has also crossed my mind
15:31<@Alberth>except I had a grid (of 64x64) in mind
15:31<frosch123>well, i think the api should be allowed to add any amount of rectangle
15:31<frosch123>which are just merged
15:31<frosch123>and stuff gets slower the more it adds :p
15:31<@Alberth>makes sense
15:31<@Alberth>could use a quad tree :p
15:32<frosch123>though, it only needs checking in commands, so not so often
15:32<@Alberth>I also think the aggressive trying to reach the industry instance number should be fixed first
15:32<@Alberth>Recently I had the idea to have a 'fraction'
15:33<frosch123>a what? :p
15:33<@Alberth>eg there is 20% water, so we should build 20% of the oilrigs
15:34<@Alberth>and the other way around too, 70% water -> build just 30% of the land-based industries
15:34<frosch123>water/land industries is not as easy
15:34<frosch123>what about fishing harbours? :)
15:35<frosch123>i think if you want to reach something like those fractions you have to use some more stochasitcal approach
15:36<frosch123>i.e. build a industy often if there are many places to build it
15:36<frosch123>hmm... though isn't that exactly what you do not want? :p
15:37<frosch123>what is the exact problem of the aggessive constrution?
15:37<frosch123>too many industries too close to each other?
15:37<@Alberth>I also one time experimented with buildable areas, ie on failed attempts, you mark some area as 'banned', and it will reduce the buildable are of that ind type
15:37<frosch123>(but that is nice for firs farms)
15:38<@Alberth>s/are /area /
15:38<@Alberth>the most obvious problem is with default industries, where the oilrig will build in all small lakes it can find
15:40<@Alberth>I expect it to happen with land based industries in water-y maps as well, except for land-based industries
15:40<frosch123>well, oilrigs and refineries are even only scaled by map outline, not by map area
15:41<frosch123>so, esp. default oilrig should not have that problem, while newgrf oilrigs should have it
15:41<@Alberth>it also happens in arctic climate, if you have 1 mountain, all forests will be stuffed onto it
15:41<frosch123>(though that originated from the time, when all map borders were water)
15:42<frosch123>Alberth: that sounds again like a maximum industry density
15:42<frosch123>like computing industry numbers per 64x64 area
15:44<frosch123>maybe we should extent the "one industry per town"-setting to more values like "at most xx industries nearby eachother"
15:44<@Alberth>it is, for all cases I mention, I think.
15:44<@Alberth>In my view, the usable fraction of the map for some industry type is not taken into account, leading to this excessive clustering
15:44<frosch123>though it would break firs farms :/
15:44<frosch123>we could add some newgrf flag "industry is supposed to cluster"
15:45<frosch123>and only do the 64x64 thingie if it is not set
15:45<@Alberth>T3rkhen once tried to implement max 2 oilrigs (or 3(?)) together in opengfx+industry, but it could not be expressed iirc
15:45<frosch123>resp. do something reversish if it is set
15:46<frosch123>i don't think you can give an exact number
15:46<frosch123>but it should be possible to reduce the probability of industries spwaning nearby
15:46<frosch123>i.e. the reverse of what firs farms do
15:47<frosch123>but, if ottd just tries harder, that might not help either :p
15:48<frosch123>so, yeah, maybe indeed only clustering is possible, and not unclustering
15:48<@Terkhen>Alberth: yeah, I remember not finding a way to do that
15:48<@Terkhen>good night :)
15:49<@Alberth>one of the last industry discussions with andy was about the 64x64 thingie, a newgrf (or GS) may want to define a more interesting curve of total number of industries than a mostly flat, slowly increasing line
15:50<frosch123>so, we want a general gs map region interface?
15:50<frosch123>for both restricting player/random constructions/destructions
15:50<frosch123>and for settings probabilities of random thingies
15:51<@Alberth>seems like a good direction to me
15:51<frosch123>then a gs could set the probability of raw industries to 0 around big towns
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15:51<frosch123>and to 160% for processing
15:51<frosch123>or simliar
15:51<frosch123>maybe we could even support two types of areas: rectangular, and euclidian distance
15:51<@Alberth>the first attempt of Zvu also showed the potential for such things, imho (where an AI build a long earth-bridge)
15:52<frosch123>ah, the split scenario
15:52*Alberth nods
15:57<@Alberth>I somewhat wonder how this works out in city builders, but I don't know enough of them.
16:11<+michi_cc>Industry regions could be nice for defining e.g. coal fields or ore rich areas. Would make random industry opening and closure a bit less annyoing if the replacement mine is somewhat nearby and not in opposite map corner.
16:13*NGC3982 tries to start a scenario with rcon for the first time.
16:13<NGC3982>-g, right?
16:14<frosch123>either "rcon" or "-g" is wrong :p
16:15<NGC3982>?
16:15<NGC3982>"You can also load savegames and scenarios with the -g"..
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16:17<frosch123>that refers to the command line, not to ottd's rcon
16:17<NGC3982>I see.
16:17<NGC3982>So, how do i start a scenario with a dedicated server?
16:17<frosch123>openttd -D -g bla.sav
16:18<NGC3982>I see, i must use a save.
16:19<frosch123>there were some issues with either -g or "load", some worked with scenarios, some not
16:19<frosch123>there is a fs task about it, but cannot remember what way around
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16:20<NGC3982>Ok.
16:22<Rubidium>frosch123: probably the load
16:22<Rubidium>as -g just loads it as savegame
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16:27<NGC3982>I can't even navigate
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16:27<NGC3982>CD? LS?
16:31<frosch123>night
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16:31<NGC3982>There we are.
16:31<NGC3982>-g wasn't used at all
16:31<NGC3982>..
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17:49<NGC3982>Ah, this is neat.
17:49<NGC3982>Scenario > Random game.
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18:27<Tiktalik>So, how do you play OpenTTD and make money
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
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18:31<Tiktalik>Eddi|zuHause: What
18:32<FLHerne>Tiktalik: Have you seen http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial ?
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18:41<Tiktalik>FLHerne: Do dead end bus stops have any advantages over ones that go over roads
18:42<FLHerne>Tiktalik: Not particularly in most cases. They can hold several waiting buses, so if you expect some buses to sit for ages they can be handy
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18:42<FLHerne>i.e. with a through bus stop, the first bus in must be the first to leave again in that direction
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>Tiktalik: they don't block as fast when you use "full load"
18:43<FLHerne>With a dead-end one, a bus can arrive and then depart again while another remains in a bay
18:43<Supercheese>they also can filter out non-articulated vehicles, while forcing articulated ones to go to drivethrough stops
18:44<Supercheese>although the utility of that is minor
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 21 00:00:36 2012