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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-25

---Logopened Sun Nov 25 00:00:41 2012
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03:43<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:57<@planetmaker>moin
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04:58<Chris_Booth>morning planetmaker
04:59-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCB2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:05<@Alberth>moin planetmaker
05:08<@planetmaker>so many friendly faces around :-)
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05:30*Flygon goes all friendly over planetmaker
05:30<Flygon>Of all the planets I've been on
05:30<Flygon>This's the only
05:32*Alberth thinks Flygon just likes the air here to fly in
05:32<@planetmaker>:-)
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05:34<@Alberth>hmm, the dropdown code is more smart than I expected :p
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05:40<Flygon>Alberth, if I was an actual Flygon, I'd probably not be called Flygon :p
05:40<Flygon>It'd be like setting my nick to 'Human'!
05:41<@Alberth>So planetmaker also doesn't make planets?
05:41<Flygon>If he does, he should have a religion
05:41<@planetmaker>indeed. I only make planetesimals :-P
05:42<@planetmaker>growing planetesimals into planets is mostly a solved problem ;-) That's why :-P
05:43<@Alberth>you have staff for that :p
05:43<@planetmaker>it's like with children: just feed them and they'll grow by themselves ;-)
05:44<Sturmi>and become stupid ttd traindrivers :D
05:48<@Alberth>sounds like a dangerous job
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06:11<Flygon>Sturmi: Don't blame the driver, blame the control centre!
06:11<Flygon>The only control centre I've seen more incompetent is Metrol! From Melbourne!
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07:05<matzteri> Hi, im trying to play Germany, Switzerland and Italy v1.1 from SwissFan91 but im missing GRF
07:05<matzteri>could someone help we with that? im pretty new to TT, sorry.
07:06<@Alberth>did you try "find missing content" button ?
07:07<matzteri>yes, I did, but there are still a lot of unknown GRF's
07:08<matzteri>I couldn't even find them with google, for example NARS_Onlytemperate_v0.2.grf
07:09<@Alberth>you could try to find the scenario http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=60
07:10<@Alberth>I think SwissFan91 also has an account there, so a PM would be another option
07:10<@Alberth>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ is another place with many newgrfs
07:12<matzteri>http://bananas.openttd.org/en/scenario/ & http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=47568&hilit=Swiss
07:12<matzteri>and I already did grfcrawler :) and I already PM to SwissFan91..
07:13<matzteri>but he didn't answer yet, so I thought I ask here.. because I was certain that everybody want's to play swissrailway.. ;-)
07:13<@Alberth>hmm, and no results thus :(
07:13<@Alberth>Swiss railways with american trains :)
07:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r24762 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2012-11-25 12:14:13 UTC)
07:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5359]: [Win32] Don't crash when switching to an unsupported fullscreen display mode (like 8 bpp modes in Windows 8).
07:14*Alberth senses the death of 8bpp modes :(
07:14<matzteri>like I said, im new to OpenTTD so im sure im just doing a newbie mistake.
07:15<@Alberth>you seem to have covered the usual suspects imho
07:15<matzteri>I was wondering too, but there are also german trains, as it looks like..
07:16<@Alberth>yeah, trains from every country almost :)
07:16<matzteri>Ok, so I just wait for him to replay, thanks
07:17<@Alberth>sorry, I could not be of more help, but I am not using many newgrfs, and those that I do use, are simply at bananas
07:19<matzteri>I just wanted to know if I'm doing some stupid mistake, but you gave me the hints I already tried, so I'm killed
07:20<+michi_cc>Which GRFs are missing?
07:22<+michi_cc>There's also the openttdcoop GRF pack which contains many NewGRFs from the pre-bananas era: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF
07:23<matzteri>German Road Vehicle Set v0.23, Long vehicles.Mctrucks, Long vehicles. Spitzer trucks, Long vehicles, Volvo trucks. Vo, NARS_Onlytemperate_v0.2.grf, newstatsw.grf, Scania2Trucksw.grf, TotalBridgesRenewalSetVersio
07:23<matzteri>ok I'll have a look
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07:26<matzteri>is it sometimes nessesary to edit the grf.config? or should it be enough to but the files in to the right folder?
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07:27<@Alberth>adding them into the newgrf folder should be enough
07:27<@Alberth>at least for a scenario or existing save game
07:29<matzteri>I found two of the missing grf's in that Pack :-) still 6 to go :)
07:32<+michi_cc>http://www.ttdpatch.de/download.html + http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/germanrv/ + http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/downloadsold.html for maybe some more
07:33<matzteri>ha .. only 2 left :-)
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07:36<+michi_cc>Total Bridge Renewal has a lot of different versions for different roads, most of them are somewhere on tt-forums, but I don't think there's a single place.
07:38<+michi_cc>And a bit of google can do wonders: http://forum.tycoonez.com/viewtopic.php?p=56487#p56487
07:41<matzteri>WOA! thanks!
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07:42<matzteri>I googled for it.. *grr* but your obviously the better googler ;-)
07:42<matzteri>It works now, so im busy for the next 2 years or so ;-)
07:42<matzteri>thanks a lot for your help Alberth and Michi
07:43<@Alberth>have fun :)
07:50<MNIM>hmmmmh
07:50<MNIM>It's not possible to have bi-directional track in OTTD currently, is there
07:52<frosch123>sure it is
07:52<Ammler>of course, every track is that, you need signals to make it one way
07:52<MNIM>>.<
07:52<frosch123>unless you mean like in rrt where stuff happens magically
07:52<MNIM>I meant like so http://wiki.openttd.org/Realistic_Path_Based_Signalling
07:53<MNIM>but yeah, http://wiki.openttd.org/Yet_Another_PBS_Patch says no.
07:54<MNIM>I just tried just that, but I got massive deadlocking
07:55<MNIM>(perhaps I shouldn't have tested that on a heavily used line) XD
07:55<Ammler>well, I would use a 3rd line and use the middle bidirectional and the outers fixed
07:55<MNIM>There's that, of course, but I don't need a third rail just yet
07:57<Ammler>and you are sure, you need 2 lines in one direction?
07:57<Ammler>most trains also need to go back
07:58<andythenorth>I would switch to planes
07:58*andythenorth is sleepy
07:59<Ammler>I guess, that wiki page should sed s/Realistic/Silly/
08:00<Ammler>that wiki page misses links to sources to prove the realism
08:02<MNIM>ammler: it's an experiment to see if I can reduce the blockade a broken train might cause
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08:22<Wolf01>hello o/
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08:28<@Alberth>hi
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10:06<NGC3982>Evening.
10:11<MNIM>afternoon.
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10:21<Dr_Tan>> OpenTTD consideres track with single signals as one-way track.
10:21<Dr_Tan>what about path signals?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>there are path signals that define one-way track and path signals that don't
10:22<Dr_Tan>yes
10:22<Dr_Tan>why can't normal signals do that?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>normal signals work different
10:23<Dr_Tan>i mean why haven't we changed that
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>because then they would become path signals
10:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24763 /trunk/src (7 files in 5 dirs) (2012-11-25 15:24:02 UTC)
10:24<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Add industry type and cargo dropdown selection for easier navigating in the industry chain window.
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>and we already have those
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>Dr_Tan: the main reason why normal signals can't be changed is loading old savegames
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10:27<Dr_Tan>surely it wouldn't have to corrupt the game, just change how it is interprated?
10:27<Dr_Tan>might cause accidents
10:27<@Alberth>why do you want to change the existing signals? just don't use them
10:28<Dr_Tan>lol
10:28<Dr_Tan>i don'
10:28<Dr_Tan>i don't think anybody does
10:28<Dr_Tan>path signals and presignals
10:28<Dr_Tan>but I was reading the page somebody posted
10:28<@Alberth>I do use the normal block signal, and path signals
10:29-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
10:29<@Alberth>and I have some old save games that use pre-signals, and rely on their behaviour
10:31*MNIM uses ALLLL the signals
10:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24764 trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp (2012-11-25 15:31:45 UTC)
10:31<@DorpsGek>-Change: Disable horizontal resizing of the industry chain window, it's not useful.
10:32<MNIM>PBS for stations and two-way singletracks, normals for everything else, pre/combo/exit signals for priority merges
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11:28<Mister_Argent|2>oh god, just sent out a fleet of trucks but i forgot to refit them for grains first
11:29<Mister_Argent|2>Is there a way to bulk refit all trucks currently in a depot?
11:35<frosch123>sell them all :p
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>you can refit at stations :)
11:35<frosch123>refit one, and reclone
11:35<frosch123>yeah, or add a refit order
11:35<frosch123>go to depot, refit
11:55<MNIM>wait, you can refit at stations?
11:55<MNIM>...
11:55*MNIM did not know that
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11:59<Eddi|zuHause>it's a fairly new feature
12:00<MNIM>ah.
12:00<MNIM>figures
12:00<ToBeFree>what O.O
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12:01<ToBeFree>interesting^^
12:10<frosch123>and there are only 2 or 3 newgrfs which support it
12:13<MNIM>support it how?
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12:15<frosch123>if they do not support it, you cannot refit the vehicles at stations
12:15<MNIM>ah.
12:15<MNIM>hmmmh.
12:15<frosch123>i only know about ogfx+trains and ogfx+rv
12:15<frosch123>maybe there is a third one
12:16<frosch123>maybe fish 2, but only maybe
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12:48<V453000>UKRS2 also has autorefit
12:48<V453000>and I think dutch trains too but not sure tehre
12:54<frosch123>you have them on your black list? :p
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>so why doesn't NUTS do autorefit? :)
12:57<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: for the same reason coop does not use path signals
12:58<V453000>no frosch that is very different reasons
12:59<frosch123>is it? i thought both make the game easier
12:59<V453000>autorefit is simply a wrong feature, the only thing it does is make refit work the same way as normal stations
12:59<V453000>therefore removing possibilities from the game
13:00<V453000>PBS is just a simplification of thought process and potentially something that you can get stuck with instead of finding a better solution which would be more obvious if you always used only block signals
13:00<V453000>we do use PBS, but of course only in spots where it is necessary
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's because coop doesn't have space restrictions the same way "normal" players would...
13:01<V453000>dont we?
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you don't :)
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>like "preserve landscape" or "128^2 map" and stuff
13:02<V453000>I wouldnt say that, or at least definitely not generally speaking. Of course many spots on the network get in major space limits
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, space limits, but orders of magnitudes larger
13:02<V453000>when you have a large junction, expanding some parts inside of it can get seriously limited in space
13:03<V453000>doesnt matter, PBS and autorefit still are very different things :)
13:03<frosch123>my space restrictions are usually of the type that i have to build single track, as there is no room for a second one
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>if you put junctions at stations, like 2 crossing double track lines, then you get orders of magnitudes more compact with path signals
13:04<V453000>yes but the X probably wont have the best throughput :)
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13:05<V453000>I dont even think space efficiency is different, our aim just is to have all tracks able to handle maximum traffic
13:05<V453000>which, of course, is not possible with PBS spam
13:05<V453000>of course PBS is more space effective, you could pretty much apply that to any situation
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>and of course my famous example of a crossing that is impossible to handle correctly without path signals (or bridges): www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2024.%20Dez%201939.png
13:07<V453000>yes of course PBS has its uses
13:07<V453000>it has a lot more uses in fact, idk what do you mean with that argument
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13:08<frosch123>i don't get the joke...
13:08<frosch123>there are not pbs signals in that screenshot, are there?
13:09<V453000>no but the junction is probably pretty broken at this point
13:09<V453000>because block signals cant really handle that too well
13:10<frosch123>ah, so eddi means to rebuild that junction with pbs
13:10<V453000>but as that is basically just agreeing on the point that PBS can be used for some of its functions, autorefit is different as it has no use
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes. that was one of the most problematic locations before i used YAPP
13:11<frosch123>anyway, you did not set "build semaphores" to 1492
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>no, why would i? :)
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i put it to 1970 :)
13:14<frosch123>it's like a logic puzzle
13:15<frosch123>you see the tracks and where signals are
13:15<frosch123>then you have to figure out the signal types
13:15<frosch123>wrt. what would make sense
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>only if you're not used to them :)
13:16<frosch123>maybe there should be a signal placement app for your handy
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>btw, the sign posts are the same
13:16<frosch123>yeah, but pbs vs. combo is hard
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the problem of that crossing is the entrance of the wood station from the bottom, which crosses with the entrance of the passenger station from the right.
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>so you can only presignal one of them, not both
13:18<frosch123>pbs is just a better combo signal
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>in that case, yes
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have a screenshot of that same crossing with PBS later in that game
13:18<V453000>if you build 100% properly, combo signals should almost never be used in fact :) or at least not in cases when 2 combo signals lead to a single block
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13:19<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: there are solutions to that crossing without combo signals, but they all require more space
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>"solution" as in: it never locks up
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>which in the current situation happens when 3 wood trains arrive at the same time
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13:20<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: there is a trivial soluition: remove all combo signals
13:20<V453000>well yeah, with that track layout you really have to use PBS, but nobody is saying that you have to keep that track layout
13:20<frosch123>it will not lock up
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but it will have near-zero throughput :)
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24765 /trunk/src/lang (9 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-25 18:45:48 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>basque - 2 changes by lutxiketa
13:46<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 32 changes by Wowanxm
13:46<@DorpsGek>finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 5 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@DorpsGek>japanese - 1 changes by nex259
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 4 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>portuguese - 23 changes by skkeeper
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 5 changes by Terkhen
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14:17<Sacro>\o/
14:19<NGC3982>Bah.
14:19<NGC3982>I always suffer from making too many trains.
14:25<Pinkbeast>But I *like* trains
14:27<Pinkbeast>... in particular I would like it if there were trains from Cambridge to King's Cross today. GAH
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14:57<andythenorth>which beer?
14:57<Pinkbeast>1845, please
14:59<frosch123>he asked "which", not "how many"
14:59<Pinkbeast>That is an answer to "which"
14:59<Supercheese>1366 is better (Stella Artois) :P
15:00*Pinkbeast makes a moue of distaste, mostly just to write moue
15:01<andythenorth>Asahi, Moretti, and something called Estrella
15:01<andythenorth>will be arriving at my house in some small bijou lorry soon
15:02<Supercheese>"Star" beer, eh?
15:03<Prof_Frink>"Which beer" is a trick question because Eve's Idea isn't a beer.
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15:05<andythenorth>I wonder if amazon mechanical turk will finish converting FIRS for me
15:06<andythenorth>I ma bored
15:06<andythenorth>copy-paste-edit
15:06<andythenorth>compile
15:06<andythenorth>wait
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15:07<NGC3982>"Amazon Mechanical Turk"?
15:08<andythenorth>yes
15:08<NGC3982>Oh, it's not even a joke
15:08<andythenorth>i.e. I pay strangers to do this work
15:08<NGC3982>That sound's like a good idea.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>copy-paste sounds like a bad idea
15:14<andythenorth>I should probably figure out an automatic migration :P
15:14<andythenorth>but who's that smart? :)
15:14<andythenorth>not andythenorth
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>"'nichts leichter als das', sagte Frederik."
15:18<frosch123>"und pickeldie ging mit frederik wieder nach hause"?
15:18<frosch123>is that where the "zuhause" comes from?
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>hey, it was "illegal" for me to even know this stuff :)
15:19<frosch123>hmm, i thought that was eastern stuff
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>no, it was the "western" sandmännchen
15:20<frosch123>ok, i never watched that... i thought there is only a eastern sandmännchen
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>the official spelling seems to be "Piggeldy"
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>and "Frederick"
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.sandmaennchen.de/freunde/beitraege/piggeldy_und_frederick.html
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>in other news: Japan reveals maglev prototype: http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201211230028
15:26<NGC3982>Oh
15:28<Rubidium>they finally got approval for the Chūō Shinkansen?
15:28<Rubidium>they've been playing with maglev for over 40 years now
15:29<frosch123>maglev trains are like fusion power plants :)
15:32<NGC3982>Please let them, and please use it everywhere.
15:33<NGC3982>Regards, humanity.
15:33<NGC3982>Speaking of, are there any serious disadvantages on using maglev?
15:33<NGC3982>goo
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: plenty
15:34<Supercheese>Cost, for one
15:34<Supercheese>Lack of trained maintenance crew, another
15:34<Supercheese>Cannot use existing infrastructure...
15:34<Supercheese>the list goes on
15:34<NGC3982>And both of those can't be mended as with the same factors for other rail types?
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>you can't use the japanese maglev system for low-speed freight at all
15:35<NGC3982>How is that?
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>you need speeds > 100km/h to even "lift off" from the helper wheels, as it's a dynamic system
15:35<NGC3982>Ah
15:35<NGC3982>Well, i see a problem then.
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>opposed to the german system, which is static
15:36<NGC3982>Using two different rail systems for freight and pax is not a fruitfull task, i guess.
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>even with a static system, you need additional energy to lift the "cargo", which is small for passengers, but very high for most freights
15:38<NGC3982>I see.
15:39<frosch123>so, even for pax it is not future proof since people become heavier
15:41*andythenorth just became heavier
15:41<andythenorth>I ate 3 sausages
15:42<NGC3982>I have been eating all day.
15:42<Rubidium>NGC3982: the Japanese high speed tracks don't have any cargo trains
15:42<NGC3982>And it has been glorious.
15:42<Rubidium>high speed normal gauge or maglev
15:43<NGC3982>Sure, that might work for the Japanese, but using two different rail systems does not feel like a good idea (at least if you can avoid it, of course :P).
15:44<Rubidium>Japanese non-high speed is generally narrow gauge
15:44<Rubidium>NGC3982: cargo trains are a massive no-go for efficient high speed rail networks
15:44<Rubidium>as cargo trains are slow
15:45<NGC3982>So, using two systems are unavoidable?
15:45<NGC3982>(For now)?
15:45<Supercheese>France said "screw it" and separated out their high speed rail system...
15:45<Rubidium>ever seen the time table of the Shinkansen?
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15:48<Eddi|zuHause>japan used a new independent track system because they had to, france used a new independent track system because they could, and germany didn't use a new track system, but instead fiddled a few new tracks inbetween existing railway nodes
15:48<Rubidium>hmm, 'only' 130 trains Tokyo -> Shin-Osaka a day
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: so every ~10 minutes?
15:50<Rubidium>every 7 minutes on average (from 06:00 - 21:20)
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15:50<NGC3982>I see.
15:51<Rubidium>every 5 minutes during rush hour
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>one ICE track in germany was calculated to need a fully occupied ICE every 4 minutes to be financially repaying itself within 40 years :)
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15:52<Rubidium>and IIRC mostly 16 car trains
15:53<Rubidium>NGC3982: and now imagine that those 130 trains include 'stop' trains that stop at every station, some semi-fast ones that don't stop at a few stations and fast ones that barely stop at all
15:54<NGC3982>Heh
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15:55<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i assume they solved it better than the germans on the KRM line (Köln-Frankfurt), where exactly the international trains serve the intermediate stops in Limburg and Montabaur :)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>(which is as far as i heard a result of lack of trains to run on the line)
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>(new trains are ordered, but they are delayed because of technical problems)
15:57*NGC3982 crasched trains.
15:57<NGC3982>chashed*
15:58<Rubidium>that Shinkansen line Tokyo <-> Osaka has 400k riders/day, which is peanuts compared to the Yamonote Line in Tokyo which has 4 million riders/day
15:58<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/KnheC.jpg
15:58<NGC3982>Always.
15:58<__ln___>today's RTL news said something like Siemens is having troubel delivering ICE3s in time, possibly due to a software problem.
15:58<NGC3982>400k riders a day?
15:58<NGC3982>Jeez.
15:58<NGC3982>My bus has like 30.
15:58<NGC3982>Almost the same, yes.
15:59<Rubidium>NGC3982: 150 million/year, so pretty much yes
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: "software problem" is a nice description :)
15:59<Rubidium>London Underground has, in total, only 3.25 million riders/day
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: the main problem was that between pushing the "stop" button and the brakes starting has a 1 second delay of just processing the input
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: but that is just the _current_ problem, the trains should have been delivered a year ago!
16:02<__ln___>very impatient people if they can't wait for 1 second! why don't the press the button 1s earlier then.
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16:06<Bad_Brett>What indices of the palette should I use if I want to apply masks to 32bpp houses?
16:07<Supercheese>recolor masks?
16:08<andythenorth>should I make some simutrans paks?
16:08<Supercheese>you've made simutrans .paks?
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: 32bpp has no palette indices
16:09<Supercheese>8bpp masks do though, no?
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: you need a second image with the mask
16:10<Supercheese>I think that's what he has
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really know the details, but it should be a greyscale image
16:10<andythenorth>is simutrans any good?
16:10*andythenorth is killing time between FIRS compiles :P
16:11<andythenorth>really really slow
16:11<Supercheese>I tried it and didn't like it
16:11<Supercheese>but YMMV
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: dunno, kinda played that ten years ago :)
16:11<Bad_Brett>Yes, I have a 8bpp mask... greyscale? Not the blue background?
16:11<andythenorth>what's the fastest desktop CPU I can buy for cheap?
16:11<andythenorth>I'm only interested in single-core performance
16:12<andythenorth>compiling python
16:12<MNIM>define 'cheap', define 'fast'
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>"simwi-0_80_0.zip" <-- not sure how to read that version number
16:13<andythenorth>MNIM: simple. Compiles FIRS faster than my laptop
16:14<andythenorth>laptop is some crappy laptop chip
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: enable compile-on-push on the compile farm?
16:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: already done :)
16:15<andythenorth>but I can't push broken code :P
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>you can, just be prepared to handle the flood of emails :)
16:15<andythenorth>I get yelled at :P
16:15<andythenorth>MNIM: current chip is a crappy 2.9Ghz i7, burstable to 3.6GHz, 256KB L2 per core, 4MB L3 shared, 16GB RAM installed
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>"openttd-0.4.0-win32.exe" ooooh... i still have this anomaly :)
16:17<Rubidium>andythenorth: Pentium 4?
16:17<andythenorth>I suspect IO might be slowing FIRS, but I have an SSD and I doubt I can do much more other than create a RAM disk :P
16:17<andythenorth>remember RAM disks? :P
16:17<andythenorth>FIRS compile is 42s
16:17<andythenorth>boring boring boring
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: /dev/shm
16:17<MNIM>...'crappy'
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: easiest way to use a "ramdisk"
16:18<MNIM>I would gladly take it from you if you don't want it any more... :P
16:18<+michi_cc>Desktop i7's max out at single core boost of 3.9 Ghz, but they definitely don't fit cheap. And AMD is much worse for single thread.
16:19<andythenorth>I just want a dumb box in the corner, and a 20s FIRS compile time :P
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>memory is my current blocker for CETS compilation
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "the cloud"
16:20*MNIM shudders
16:20<MNIM>you did not just say that
16:20<andythenorth>"the cloud" has crappy CPUs :P
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16:23<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i should try a CETS run on the other computer...
16:29<@Terkhen>good night
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>ImportError: No module named ply.lex
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>hmzz...
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16:31<drac_boy>hi
16:32<Bad_Brett>hello friend!
16:33<Supercheese>anyway... was the 32bpp mask question answered?
16:33<drac_boy>hi cheesy cheese :P
16:33<drac_boy>heh heh
16:34<Bad_Brett>nope, it wasn't :)
16:34<Supercheese>What are you trying to do? Company color?
16:34<Bad_Brett>i'm trying to apply the four random colours
16:35<Supercheese>the color cycles? Fire/water/etc?
16:36<Bad_Brett>the random_colours property
16:36<Bad_Brett>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Houses
16:36<Supercheese>I think you might use Company Color for that
16:36<Supercheese>not sure though
16:36<Supercheese>yeah, seems like company color from the wiki
16:37*andythenorth -> bed
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16:37<Bad_Brett>that was the first thing i tried, but it didn't work. the house just turns blue... but i'll do some more experimenting
16:38<Supercheese>Oh, hmm...
16:38*Supercheese hasn't don't any masks for 32bpp yet
16:38<Supercheese>hasn't done*
16:38<Supercheese>jeez bad typo
16:39<Supercheese>although I have "dont" set to automatically filter to "don't", so it's not like I hit the apostrophe :P
16:40<MNIM>I have to
16:40<MNIM>except that it corrects my don'ts to donts
16:40<MNIM>face-f-ing-palm
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16:41<Supercheese>Now if only I could write a script that auto-filters between its/it's and there/their/they're appropriately...
16:42<MNIM>yeah, there's no excuse for switching out there their and they're
16:44<Supercheese>there/their/they're are easy, but I tend to screw up its/it's a lot...
16:44<Rubidium>its vs it's is easy as well: can you write it as "it is"?
16:45<Bad_Brett>nope, doesn't work... frustrating.
16:45<Supercheese>Oh, the logic behind it is easy, I just type so fast I screw it up
16:45<MNIM>exactly.
16:45<MNIM>Ill admit my it's/its aren't flawless either
16:46<Bad_Brett>any suggestions? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/b/be/Dospal.png
16:47<Supercheese>Well, you've already tried company color, that's what I would have thought
16:47<Supercheese>perhaps having a look at zbase would be enlightening
16:48<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/show/industries/temperate/factory or so
16:49<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/entry/industries/temperate/factory/64_0020.png
16:49<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/entry/industries/temperate/factory/64m_0020.png
16:49<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/entry/industries/temperate/factory/64m2_0020.png
16:49<Supercheese>those seem to be implementing the random_color for industries
16:49<Supercheese>lemme check houses
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: did you try it in 8bpp mode first?
16:51<Bad_Brett>Nope, I'll try that as well.
16:51<Supercheese>Statue has random_color too, I think: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/show/towns/temperate/statues
16:52<Supercheese>hope that helps :)
16:52<+michi_cc>According to the code the random_colours property + 775 is the recolour map used (table is at http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RecolorSprites#Default_recolour_sprites)
16:52<frosch123>Bad_Brett: for most houses you have to use the "struct" recolournig
16:53<frosch123>but some few original houses also use the company colours
16:53<+michi_cc>frosch123: That's only for sprite replacement, isn't it? NewHouses seem to allow all normal recoulours.
16:53<frosch123>so, it makes a big diffference whether you are doing something for a baseset, or for a newgrf
16:53<Bad_Brett>it's a newgrf
16:54<Bad_Brett>zbase seems to use 32bpp mask files? or am i insane?
16:54<Supercheese>Hmm, I dunno
16:54<frosch123>yes, newgrfs use normal cc
16:54<frosch123>(or 2cc)
16:57<Bad_Brett>now i'm really confused... zbase masks don't seem to use the palette at all(?) i can't even compile the grf without a proper palette on the mask files
16:57<Supercheese>perhaps baseset does stuff way different
16:57<Bad_Brett>yes, maybe...
16:57<Supercheese>:S
16:57<Rubidium>Bad_Brett: the 8bpp-ised mask files are in the 8bpp folders
16:58<Bad_Brett>ah, alright. thanks
16:58<Rubidium>Zephyris creates the mask files with blender as well and then with a load of scripts it's converted into the right format
16:59<Mister_Argent|2>I think i might get back to my current single-player mode. Been playing with FIRS to mix things up...
16:59-!-Mister_Argent|2 is now known as Mister_Argent
17:01<Bad_Brett>yeah, i create them in 3ds max and automatically convert them with a script as well
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17:01<Bad_Brett>btw, should i use the windows palette or the dos palette? that might be the error
17:02<Rubidium>I'd use the DOS palette
17:02<Rubidium>since it has more colours
17:02<Bad_Brett>that's the one i'm using
17:02<Rubidium>and a more logical construction
17:02<Bad_Brett>but zbase seems to use the win palette
17:07<Bad_Brett>the weird thing is that the exact same mask files work perfectly on vehicles
17:08<frosch123>well, did you enable the recolouring?
17:10<frosch123>i mean "recolour_mode: RECOLOUR_REMAP" in the spritelayout
17:12<Bad_Brett>let me check
17:12<Bad_Brett>nope! that must be it!
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17:13<Bad_Brett>stupid me, i was 100% sure i enabled it yesterday
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17:18<Bad_Brett>thanks a lot, it works perfectly now
17:18<Supercheese>:D
17:20<Bad_Brett>so cheese, is your new project underway yet?
17:20<Mister_Argent>Arg. One of my trains won't leave the depot...
17:20<Mister_Argent>"Heading for Brenham Woods, 0km/h"
17:21<drac_boy>Mister_Argent bad signal? ;)
17:21<Mister_Argent>no signals at all, actually. propably a wierd track stup...
17:21<drac_boy>actually the depot is ALWAYS a signal fyi ;)
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17:24<frosch123>night
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17:25<Mister_Argent>...oh, my wierd track change/depot access thing was confusing the train somehow
17:27<Mister_Argent>...The AI is trying to steal my oil i think
17:29<drac_boy>heh doubt it..probably you have crappy service? :)
17:29<drac_boy>otherwise no idea
17:29<Mister_Argent>There's a AI also transporting oil from the refinery i provide oil to...
17:29<Mister_Argent>I recall there being some trick you could do with a well-aimed train derailing to destroy their cars.
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>that bug was fixed looong ago
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17:55<Mister_Argent>aww
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18:16<Wolf01>'night
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22:11<MinchinWeb>Is there someone on who can make a quick typo fix in the NoAI documentation?
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 26 00:00:42 2012