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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-01

---Logopened Sat Dec 01 00:00:44 2012
---Daychanged Sat Dec 01 2012
00:00<Flygon>Sorry for the delays
00:00<Flygon>But, in OpenTTD, ships are made of magic! :P
00:01<Flygon>Also, I can't speak German x:
00:01<Flygon>Sorry
00:03<Eddi|zuHause>you can still look at the pictures :)
00:03<Flygon>Touche
00:04<Flygon>Except you linked me to a disambiguation article :P
00:04<Eddi|zuHause>not here
00:04<Flygon>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendsburger_Hochbr%C3%83%C2%BCcke Appears to be a disambiguation article...
00:05<Flygon>...I really gotta get my IRC client to support UTF properly, and stop using ASCII
00:05<Eddi|zuHause>your utf8 conversion is broken then
00:05<Flygon>Ahh...
00:05<Flygon>x:
00:06<Eddi|zuHause>anyway there's also an english article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendsburg_High_Bridge
00:07<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: your link is broken because it applied the utf-8 conversion twice
00:07<Flygon>Oh x:
00:07<Flygon>Sorry
00:07<Flygon>Thank you, for the English link
00:07<Flygon>...that is a hell of a tall bridge
00:12<Eddi|zuHause>there's also this bridge over the same canal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Anonymer_Fotograf_PC_Hochbr├╝cke_Hochdonn_bei_Burg_in_Dithmarschen_Dortmunder_Union_Louis_Eilers_Nordostseekanalbr├╝cke_Bildseite.jpg
00:14<Flygon>Got a tinyurl for that? x:
00:15<Eddi|zuHause>never tried that ;)
00:16<Flygon>It's easy
00:16<Eddi|zuHause>http://tinyurl.com/cnvwp2x
00:16<Flygon>Just shove it in, then pull out the string it gives you
00:16<Flygon>Yeah, like that
00:17<Flygon>Thanks :)
00:17<Flygon>...
00:17<Flygon>"501 Not Implemented
00:17<Flygon>The server has either erred or is incapable of performing the requested operation."
00:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm, that seems to fail as well
00:17*Flygon bangs head against wall
00:17<Flygon>Must be a chrome thing
00:22<Eddi|zuHause>try this one then: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Anonymer_Fotograf_PC_Hochbr%C3%BCcke_Hochdonn_bei_Burg_in_Dithmarschen_Dortmunder_Union_Louis_Eilers_Nordostseekanalbr%C3%BCcke_Bildseite.jpg
00:29<Flygon>That works, Eddi|zuHause :)
00:29<Flygon>Thank you
00:29<Flygon>o.o
00:29<Flygon>It looks really flimsy, somewhat
00:30<Eddi|zuHause>here's a map of the canal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Karte_Nord-Ostsee-Kanal.png
00:30<Eddi|zuHause>you see Rendsburg in the north with the first bridge, and Hochdonn in the south with the second bridge
00:32<Eddi|zuHause>you also see two other rail bridges and a few road bridges crossing that canal, all 42m above the water surface
00:33*Flygon nod
00:33<Flygon>Area I'm from isn't known for huge bridges
00:34<Flygon>One of them we tried to build collapsed mid-construction
00:34<Flygon>http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200910/r456672_2233970.jpg
00:35<Flygon>Never trust Australians to build a suspension bridge
00:37<Eddi|zuHause>this is the highest rail bridge in germany, 107m above ground: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCngstener_Br%C3%BCcke
00:38<Flygon>That looks quite dangerous
00:38<Flygon>What about high winds? Or passenger safety in an emergency?
00:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's currently under reconstruction, because it's over 100 years old
00:39<Supercheese>Helicopter evac in case of emergency :P
00:39<Supercheese>or hell, it's Germany, so Zeppelin evac!
00:39<Flygon>I see
00:39<Flygon>@ the reconstruction
00:39<Supercheese>although the new Zeps are really tiny...
00:39<Flygon>I always thought Australia would be a good place for giant Zepplins
00:39<Supercheese>All that open space, yeah
00:40<Flygon>Build one with a large enough envelope, and you have something that's practical for freight (coal, iron ore) haulage
00:40<Supercheese>have you got any Helium there?
00:40<Flygon>Bonus points for being able to go to neighbouring countries
00:40<Supercheese>I know we have some here in Oklahoma-area
00:40<Flygon>We have plenty of hydrogen :P
00:40<Supercheese>well, hydrogen is everywhere
00:41<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: zeppelins are known to cover really long distances really well
00:41<Flygon>(though, only countries that come to mind nearby that can handle superblimps are Japan and China...)
00:41<Flygon>Yes
00:41<Flygon>Hence, why I suggested giant freight Zepps
00:41<Flygon>Giant being, over a kilometer long
00:41<Eddi|zuHause>germans tried to revive the zeppelin concept, but the company failed big time
00:41<Supercheese>I'd rather have a flying cruise ship
00:41<Supercheese>their NT Zeppelins are way too small
00:41<Supercheese>like 12 passengers
00:42<Flygon>It's a shame no Heindenbergs were preserved
00:42<Supercheese>Nazis were involved, they tended to ruin everything
00:42<Supercheese>:(
00:42<Flygon>The problem with the Nazi's is the regieme, not the people
00:42<Flygon>We need to remember that
00:42<Supercheese>aye, the policies are what I refer to
00:43<Flygon>Then again, Australia's practically the only country that hadn't been invaded by the Nazi's... barring some bombings from Japan, anyway
00:43<Flygon>But Japan made the mistake of bombing a desert
00:44<Flygon>Darwin's population in WWII was waaaaay more soldiers than citizens :P
00:44<Supercheese>didn't they hit one airfield? Albeit a small, barely-used one?
00:45<Supercheese>and weren't there midget subs in Syndey harbor?
00:45<Supercheese>or was that a piece of alternate history I read somewhere?
00:45<Flygon>Anyone attempting to invade Australia's harbours are idiots
00:46<Flygon>Sydney and Melboure have extremely geographically advantagious harbours, and the rest (even before the 1940s) were very well protected otherwise
00:46<Flygon>Seriously, just try invading Melbourne via Port Phillip Bay
00:46<Supercheese>I don't doubt that, but we're talking about an Empire that resorted to large-scale kamikaze tactics...
00:46<Supercheese>also I didn't think they wanted to invade as much as wreck shipping
00:46<Flygon>They tried that
00:47<Flygon>It didn't really succeed
00:47<Supercheese>but I don't properly recall
00:47<Flygon>And Japan would never have had a hope in hell of reaching any Australian cities (barring Perth and Darwin) by sea anyway, considering the US's Navy prescence
00:47<Flygon>(and the Perth is a huuuge maybe)
00:48<Supercheese>wonder if that would have been different if the carriers were at Pearl when it was bombed...
00:48<Eddi|zuHause>the idea behind the kamikaze tactics, or pretty much any japanese tactics in the second part of WWII was that as a democracy, american opinion would suffer from large scale loss of life
00:48<Eddi|zuHause>so eventually the americans would vote for ending the war, if it dragged on for too long
00:49<Eddi|zuHause>that was until the first atomic bombs hit
00:52<Flygon>Kamikaze tactics are worthless against 1940s Australia
00:52<Flygon>We lacked the ability to have long range communication with them (that wasn't awful) until around the 80s to 90s
00:53<Flygon>As in, with Darwin
00:53<Flygon>They were bombing an area of Australia that would be able to be kept confidential whatsoever... they wouldn't be demolalizing a country, just a convey of soldiers
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01:04<Eddi|zuHause>oh, fun fact about that bridge reconstruction: before the reconstruction they tried to get the bridge certified for the small passenger trains that would use them, but in the application they filled in the wrong number. so the bridge was certified for the train, but only without passengers
01:06<Eddi|zuHause>with passengers the train would get too heavy, and thus they couldn't use it
01:06<Supercheese>"Were those imperial tons or metric tons?" :P
01:07<Eddi|zuHause>we're probably lucky that we don't have that kind of problem :)
01:07<Supercheese>Yeah
01:07<Supercheese>Although you might have the handwritten 1 vs 7 problem
01:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, it was really big problem before we converted to the metric system
01:08<Supercheese>D'you bar the 7 or not?
01:08<Eddi|zuHause>because each province noble had his own measurement system
01:08<Eddi|zuHause>so you had a prussian pound, a saxon pound, a bavarian pound, ...
01:09<Supercheese>oy gevalt
01:09<Flygon>Someday, America'll be too late to switch to Metric
01:10<Eddi|zuHause>germany consisted of about 40 constituencies in the 1850's
01:10<Eddi|zuHause>practically each of them with individual measurement units
01:10<Supercheese>the American Society of Mechanical Engineers said back in the 70s or so, "America WILL adopt the metric system."
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01:10<Supercheese>... and here we are
01:10<Eddi|zuHause>which made it very necessary to introduce a common system
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03:39<__ln___>http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2012/201211/news29/20121129-20ee.html
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03:48<Wolf01>moooorning
03:49<Supercheese> I suppose 1 AM is morning ;)
03:49<Wolf01>:)
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04:01<Flygon>Evening
04:01<Flygon>8PM
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05:36<@Alberth>moin
05:40<frosch123>hai :)
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06:06<NGC3982>Morning.
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06:08<NGC3982>__ln___: ..
06:28<Flygon>Okay, I am loving cargodist
06:28<Flygon>It actually makes installing intermediate stations worthwile :)
06:29<Flygon>And requires less trains for more profit!
06:38<fonsinchen>It can also be the other way round, depending on your network layout ...
06:38<NGC3982>Cargodist?
06:39<NGC3982>"So this is the (n+1)th attempt".. Hah. :D
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06:44<NGC3982>What this all about.
06:44<NGC3982>It's a wayfinder?
06:45<fonsinchen>It distributes cargo in your network, using multiple hops
06:46<fonsinchen>For example if you have a pax train from A to B and another one from B to C. Part of the passengers from the first train will automatically transfer at B in order to reach C.
06:47<Flygon>fonsinchen: I actually switched the type of OpenTTD client mid-way through (basically, saved and opened)... while my initial network was overwhelmed
06:48<NGC3982>Oh, i see.
06:48<Flygon>It actually became far more flexible
06:48<NGC3982>That's nice.
06:48<Flygon>Though, people willing to take over a year going from Kansas to NY are nuts
06:49<NGC3982>Hehe :D
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06:53<__ln___>http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-cetera/stockholm-stock-exchange-paralyzed-by-order-for-6-futures-20121129/
06:54<NGC3982>Im not really following, though. How do i use git files?
06:56<NGC3982>I'm sorry, but i used OMX values yesterday before closing. I did not recall any abrupt halt?
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: but sanitizing the input would take valuable nanoseconds... the latency would increase!
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause>why am i getting the impression fonsinchen has a highlight on "cargodist"? :)
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: you can get a precompiled version if git confuses you
07:11<fonsinchen>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist/releases/
07:12<fonsinchen>you can also get a source tarball there. Then you can compile yourself without using git.
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07:24<NGC3982>C..compile?
07:25*NGC3982 scratches his head, scrolls up a bit and tries to re-read everything.
07:29<NGC3982>Though, how quaint. Generating a map consists of 95% generating canals, 5% everything else.
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>map generation has not been changed...
07:30<NGC3982>Not related to the previous discussion.
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07:33<Bad_Brett>btw, how do i replace the river sprites? can i use replacenew or so i have to make an item block?
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>you should probably ask that to the people who coded rivers before, in the forum
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07:45<frosch123>rivers are only via item block
07:45<frosch123>effectively canals are also only via item block nowadays
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08:03<NGC3982>Im trying to play a 2048^2048 map locally. I have a dedicated server running on my HTPC, and it CPU/RAM/bandwith wise, it does not seem to exceed any particular limit
08:04<NGC3982>The client is my i5 laptop, connected (wireless-n) trough LAN.
08:04<NGC3982>I keep getting disconnected, and lot's of "X seconds since respons from server".
08:04<NGC3982>What (on earth) can cause it?
08:05<NGC3982>I have been experimenting with net_frame_freq, but that does not make any particular changes.
08:05<Sturmi>tried a a cable connection?
08:06<NGC3982>Yes, same effect.
08:07<V453000>how many trains
08:07<NGC3982>None.
08:07<V453000>ecs/firs?
08:07<NGC3982>ECS
08:07<V453000>there is your answer
08:08<NGC3982>:(
08:09<Flygon>In 10 years time, we'll have the computational power and fiber to handle 8192*8192 maps :)
08:09<NGC3982>Ill set map_x to 9.
08:09<NGC3982>Let's see how that works.
08:09<NGC3982>Flygon: yey.
08:09<V453000>well 512x512 should be enough for any player really ... and honestly, ECS is really badly functional ;) all the production changes and stuff
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: could set a lower number of industries
08:10<Flygon>Assuming companies and Governments around the world get off their arse and install fiber everywhere
08:10<Flygon>Because screw copper
08:10<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: I guess.
08:10<NGC3982>V453000: It was more of an experiment. Though, why just ECS? Wont FIRS have the same effect?
08:11<V453000>I dont know the exact code, but FIRS stresses the cpu less
08:11<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: ECS has lots of animation and complicated production formulas
08:11<V453000>somehow ECS just counts more stuff I guess
08:11<V453000>ye
08:11<NGC3982>Ok
08:12<NGC3982>Bah. Im tired of FIRS.
08:12<NGC3982>Been over-playing it for so long.
08:12<V453000>opengfx+ industries are fun when you need a well working industry set and demand more cargoes :)
08:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24776 /trunk/src (23 files in 7 dirs) (2012-12-01 13:12:39 UTC)
08:12<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Typo fixes, additions, and additional dots collected from various sources (including Eagle_rainbow, MinchinWeb)
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08:13<Flygon>And 512*512 is never enough
08:13<Flygon>2048*2048 isn't even enough for a heightmap of Australia
08:13<Flygon>Or even Victoria @_@
08:13<NGC3982>V453000: Wait, Opengfx+? I thought that was a new version of the normal industries?
08:13<V453000>well original industries which can be turned on in various climates, meaning more cargoes?
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: basically it combines the industries of all climates
08:14<@Alberth>Flygon: how is 2k*2k not enough, it's a matter of scaling
08:14<V453000>EXCEPT TOYLAND :(
08:14<Sturmi>screw toyland
08:14<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, i see.
08:14<V453000>Sturmi now you fucked up
08:14<Flygon>Alberth: Australia's a continent with a lot of nothing, and cities that are actually very tightly concentrated when there are cities...
08:14<V453000>.
08:14<Flygon>It's hard to explain
08:14<Flygon>Basically
08:14<NGC3982>Is it accessable trough the online content?
08:15<Flygon>For some regions, 4k*4k would be wildly overcompensatory
08:15<V453000>sure
08:15<NGC3982>It was!
08:15*NGC3982 tries.
08:15<@Alberth>Sturmi: but it has a very nice industry chain
08:15<Flygon>But for others, it'd barely give enough realistic definition
08:15<NGC3982>Should i use all of them?
08:15<V453000>it has the best industry chain
08:15<Sturmi>it has but it causes eyecancer
08:15<@Alberth>Flygon: hmm, leave out the 'nothing' parts then?
08:15<V453000>NGC3982: yeah that is fun :)
08:16<NGC3982>Speaking of, i notice that OpenGFX+ Trains has two versions in the online content.
08:16<Flygon>Alberth: Yeah, but then you'd end up with Perth complaining it's not counted, and a 4k*1k map :P
08:16<@Alberth>Sturmi: tried the opengfx variant or the zbase variant, much nicer
08:16<NGC3982>Is it really prefarable to have both old and new versions in the content list?
08:16<Sturmi>no, maybe i should.
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: of what?
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08:17<V453000>if you have one version have 200mb or how much, yes :d
08:18<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: 0.2.5 and 0.3.0 is available in the online content, for the OpenGFX+ Trains NewGRF.
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>maybe a dependency or something
08:21<NGC3982>Confused NGC.
08:21<NGC3982>Ill try a 2048^2 map with opengfx
08:21<NGC3982>OpenGFX*
08:29<NGC3982>What the
08:29<NGC3982>It seems like the autosave disconnects the server
08:32<V453000>is it socially correct to class beer into valuables?
08:32<NGC3982>Are you europeean?
08:32<@Alberth>I don't, but you may want to
08:33<frosch123>V453000: yeah, if you want to keep it, it might be better to guard it
08:33<frosch123>but otoh, which guard could you trust?
08:33<V453000>ofc, armoured wagons
08:39<@Alberth>the biggest threat does not come from the outside ;)
08:40<V453000>:D
08:40<V453000>fair point
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08:44<Flygon>In Australia, you don't have Beer Trains
08:44<frosch123>Flygon: ottd is not about realism, but about dreams :p
08:44<Flygon>You have Beer pipeline from Melbourne, to Sydney, to Brisbane, to Adelaide, to Perth, to Darwin... should I continue? :D
08:45<Flygon>The trains aren't fast enough! And lack the capacity!
08:45<Flygon>We thank Russia for the idea :D
08:48<NGC3982>V453000: Well, this worked out nicely.
08:48<@Alberth>Flygon: use tankers
08:49<Flygon>We stopped using those when the drivers kept getting drunk off the tanker tank
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08:49<@Alberth>good point :)
08:54<Rubidium>oh... a tron-esque commit ;)
08:56<@peter1138>?
09:02<Rubidium>@commit 5210
09:02<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by tron :: r5210 /trunk (44 files in 6 dirs) (2006-06-10 08:37:41 UTC)
09:02<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Many small changes which piled up: const, unsigned, variable scope, CSE for readability, DeMorgan, if cascades -> switch, whitespace, parentheses, bracing, misc.
09:02<Rubidium>@commit 24776
09:02<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by alberth :: r24776 /trunk/src (23 files in 7 dirs) (2012-12-01 13:12:39 UTC)
09:02<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: -Doc: Typo fixes, additions, and additional dots collected from various sources (including Eagle_rainbow, MinchinWeb)
09:03<Rubidium>both look pretty much like many small changes piling up
09:04<@Alberth>I don't keep collections of code changes ;)
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09:30<andythenorth>lo
09:31<V453000>hello andy :)
09:39<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/zh9EJ.png
09:40<NGC3982>I have an order table like this, and i wish to auto-replace the trains. Will the trains ignore the non-stop orders, if only a single depot is available?
09:40<NGC3982>Or will they wait until they get between the orders (where the depot lies).
09:41<V453000>depends on servicing requirements, if they want a service they will go for a near depot I think, but that seems to work really variously
09:41<andythenorth>what is new?
09:41<V453000>best solution for autoreplacing is to have all depots behind terminus stations or reversers
09:41<V453000>I wrote a little thing about that here http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2012/11/18/train-servicing-settings/
09:42<NGC3982>V453000: It's not servicing, it's auto-replacing - Or - Does the same rules apply?
09:42<NGC3982>Oh, ok
09:42<V453000>yeah
09:42<V453000>read the article that will explain some things
09:42<NGC3982>Thanks
09:42<V453000>yw
09:55<NGC3982>Yes, that worked out nicely.
10:12<NGC3982>Ah, OpenGFX+ is really nice.
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10:51<@peter1138>hmm, that's annoying
10:52<@peter1138>got a spare raid card but its bios seems to override the ahci bios, so the system can't boot :-(
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12:15<Superuser>hey there, it's the translation man again. I wonder, where does this string appear in the game? http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_CONFIG_SETTING_TYPE
12:19<frosch123>in the advanced setting gui
12:19<frosch123>in the lower panel
12:19<frosch123>nightly only (in case you only know stable)
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12:24*NGC3982 is on a train.
12:24<Superuser>thanks bruv
12:24<Superuser>guess I need to dl nightly
12:25<Superuser>btw, frosch123, how can I change the MIDI soundfont used in Windows? I know how to do it on Linux and it uses that, but how do I do it in Windows, do you know?
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12:41<@peter1138>good luck, windows vista/7 try to make out that midi doesn't exist
12:42<andythenorth>forums seem to be on silent running
12:42<andythenorth>nobody's posted for days
12:42<andythenorth>is openttd dying?
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12:44<@peter1138>maybe you're looking in the wrong section?
12:50<Superuser>Windows XP?
12:50<Superuser>I moved to Linux because I don't like the newer Windows hehe
12:50<Superuser>but I still have an XP installation for some games
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13:30<superboss75>hi
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24777 /trunk/src/lang (5 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-01 18:45:29 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>basque - 37 changes by lutxiketa
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 4 changes by Bassals, arnau
13:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 6 changes by Evropi
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 6 changes by telk5093
13:45<@DorpsGek>ukrainian - 9 changes by edd_k
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14:01<@peter1138>pfft, windows 7 is way better than the rest
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15:04<frosch123>night
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15:42<andythenorth>meh
15:42<andythenorth>FIRS compile is sloooooow
15:43<Rubidium>andythenorth: looking at the number of open openttd bugs I'd guess that openttd's dying as well
15:43<andythenorth>fewer bugs?
15:43<andythenorth>or more?
15:43<Rubidium>way more
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>maybe OSX is dying? :)(
15:44<Rubidium>in the good days there were like 10 open bugs (almost all OSX), but now the majority isn't OSX specific anymore
15:45<andythenorth>is it dying from more users reporting bugs?
15:45<andythenorth>dying by not dying? :P
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15:46<Rubidium>andythenorth: more like less people fixing bugs
15:48<Superuser>what the heck, I just dl'ed the nightly and there's a new background game in the main menu?
15:48<Superuser>I like it actually, do keep :)
15:49<Rubidium>new ain't the right word
15:49<Superuser>arctic maps are wayyy underrated, maybe this will make people pay attention to them
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: that title game is actually ANCIENT
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>it's a builtin bug tester
15:49<Superuser>ok calm down
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: the title game is traditionally switched every year
15:50<Superuser>aaand crash - Assertion failed at line 169 of ..\src\window.cpp: widget_index < this->nested_array_size
15:50<Zuu>Actually, I guess it is soon time for the next title game competition.
15:50<Superuser>just the main menu :(
15:51<Superuser>oh cool is there a place where you can see a gallery of them or something?
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>they are in the screenshot section of openttd.org, i think
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>hmm no, they aren't
15:52<Superuser>holy shit, that crash is driving me nuts (WinXP SP3, chaps)
15:52<Superuser>if that helps
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: what helps is a bug report with the crash.log/crash.dmp/etc. files on bugs.openttd.org
15:52<Superuser>I told you the line, isn't that enough -.-
15:52<Zuu>Here is the thread of the last title game competition: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=57555
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: no it's not
15:53<Rubidium>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/titlegame-1.2/ http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/titlegame-1.1/ http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/intro/round1/
15:53<V453000>come on driving nuts isnt that bad :(
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15:54<Rubidium>Superuser: given that line is called from hundreds of locations, it's not really useful
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15:54<Superuser>window.cpp?
15:54<Rubidium>Superuser: any programming experience?
15:54<Superuser>only scripting.
15:55<Superuser>lua and ruby
15:55<Superuser>and some python
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: what is needed is a backtrace how it got to that line. that it got to that line is fairly un-saying...
15:55<Zuu>Superuser: If you can come up with a set of instructions on how to reproduce the crash, that would be useful.
15:55<Superuser>okay...
15:56<Rubidium>Superuser: then look at the code and tell me whether that looks buggy: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/window.cpp#L162
15:56<Zuu>Oh, actually it is very easy to reproduce. Just click on the main menu window anywhere except at the buttons.
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: that doesn't do anything here...
15:58<Superuser>that bug tracking system you use is really nice, almost as nice as MantisBT
15:58<Superuser>I still prefer Roundup Tracker myself for its sheer simplicity : )
15:58<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: On r24777?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes
15:59<Zuu>Strange. And you click eg next to the quit button (but not on it)
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>linux, x64
15:59<Zuu>interesting :-)
16:00<Zuu>It happens for me with win32 but not win64.
16:01<Rubidium>oh... *that* smells like a buffer overrun of sorts
16:01<Zuu>s/win64/windows 64 bit/
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause>hm... FIRS r891M... how ancient is that? :)
16:04<Superuser>btw don't file a bug, it's uploading atm
16:04<Superuser>the dumps and stuff I mean
16:05<Superuser>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5378 ta-da!
16:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's as ancient as the pyramids :P
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>oh crazy old game with flat junctions without PBS :)
16:09<SpComb>path signals = awesum
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>i can spend ages looking at this screenshot :) http://media.openttd.org/images/screens/0.7/Klein_Elsmuenster2_krause_20090711.png
16:14<Superuser>o_O_o_O_o_O_o
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16:15<SpComb>pretty weird
16:15<Superuser>I love people's commitment to this game, it's like inspiring stories like this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-12-10-year-long-civilisation-2-game-offers-grim-outlook-for-mankind
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16:16<Eddi|zuHause>yeah i remember that story
16:16<SpComb>a little pathfinder work there
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>although it was cheated, that screenshot is filed under "0.7" but actually it was a paxdest game
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16:53*andythenorth -> sleep
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18:00<__ln___>i think there's something missing from the elrail graphics... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TrnlcStma4
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18:05<Superuser>When enabled, viewports will start to scroll when the mouse is near the edge of the window
18:05<Superuser>Why not change this to 'When enabled, the map scrolls when the mouse is at the edge of the window'?
18:05<Superuser>No-one knows what viewport means - I had to google it myself.
18:06<__ln___>It's English, everybody knows English.
18:07<Superuser>most RTS players just say 'the map scrolls' :P
18:07<Superuser>and get pissed off when annoying bugs mean it doesn't scroll, like in Europa Universalis III, lol
18:07<Superuser>but seriously, that is just confusing
18:08<Superuser>Unless I'm missing something here, like viewports being something more than just the map.
18:09<Superuser>and besides, that's the help text. The string for the setting itself says 'Pan window when mouse is at the edge: {STRING}'
18:10<Superuser>you need to think like designers, not developers and use more approachable terms, really
18:11<Psyk>__ln___: its nice, I always wanted to see what is outside the train while travelling at night
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18:28<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: what do you mean? all these features are in openttd :)
18:32<FLHerne>Superuser: Don't forget that a 'Map' window exists ;-)
18:32<Superuser>Huh... I'm confused...
18:33<FLHerne>Well, there's a separate window to show the map, right? As well as the main viewport and the creatable ones
18:34<FLHerne>So 'Map scrolls when mouse is at the edge' would be somewhere between 'very ambiguous' and 'wrong' :P
18:37<Superuser>oh, this is just for the separate map then?
18:37<Superuser>like, the one you can bring up?
18:37<FLHerne>No, in fact the map is the one that *doesn't* scroll when the cursor is near the edge of its window :P
18:38<FLHerne>So the answer to <Superuser> Why not change this to 'When enabled, the map scrolls when the mouse is at the edge of the window'? is: The map doesn't do that - the viewports do
18:40<Superuser>really? I just enabled it, and it scrolled...
18:40<Superuser>so to clarify; viewport = minimap you can bring up
18:41<FLHerne>Nope.
18:41*FLHerne draws on a screenshot
18:46<FLHerne>http://imgur.com/TCjIo
18:46<Superuser>ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
18:46<Superuser>I get it now
18:47<Superuser>idiot su :)
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18:47<FLHerne>Superuser: I think you had your names backward :P
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19:12<Psyk>I have also a "scrolling problem", when I click and drag the main viewport, it moves too fast - is there any option to slow it down?
19:16<Zuu>Are you on a regular mouse/trackball or a wacom?
19:17<Zuu>Scrolling with wacom is known to be fast, and personally I like it that way. :-)
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20:06<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 02 00:00:51 2012