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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-02

---Logopened Sun Dec 02 00:00:51 2012
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03:52<@peter1138>Morning all
03:52-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
03:54<Ammler>guten morgen
03:54-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
03:54<Sturmi>moin
03:56<andythenorth>boinsoirre
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04:14<@Terkhen>good morning
04:16<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
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04:26-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:26-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:30<andythenorth>o/ Alberth
04:30<@Alberth>hi andy
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04:30<@Alberth>he, /me was going to tell you something :(
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04:31<@Alberth>ah, you're back
04:31<@Alberth>the snow by dan is very clean, isn't it?
04:32<andythenorth>yes
04:32<andythenorth>needs a bit more texture maybe
04:33<Eddi|zuHause>that was my thought as well
04:33<andythenorth>will adjust later
04:33<andythenorth>kind of thing I'll notice next time I play a game
04:33<@Alberth>:)
04:33<andythenorth>meanwhile I have 8 industries remaining to convert to python templates :P
04:35<andythenorth>I gave the lime kiln a steam crane before 1950s, instead of a front end loader
04:35<andythenorth>looks better o_O
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>sounds good
04:39<Eddi|zuHause>although over here, 1990 would be more realistic :)
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04:57<andythenorth>eastie?
05:02<andythenorth>parameter? "Change equipment dates according to prevailing political regime"
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>:)
05:04-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:11<andythenorth>maybe newgrf shouldn't bother with intro dates
05:11<andythenorth>maybe they should just specify 'epoch', and OpenTTD should define the epochs, according to scenario or such
05:14<V453000>does 1986-1987 count as an epoch? :P
05:14<andythenorth>if the game says so, yes :P
05:15<andythenorth>hmm
05:15<andythenorth>I was just dicking around
05:15<andythenorth>but this could be a solution to day length
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's difficult, as "epochs" are not quite that fixed time ranges
05:15<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I know :)
05:15<andythenorth>just define epochs 1-n
05:16<andythenorth>newgrf says 'vehicle appears in [epochs]'
05:16<andythenorth>let the game match epochs to dates
05:16<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds stupid
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05:23<andythenorth>probably :)
05:27-!-Progman [~progman@p57A195F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:31<V453000>not to mention that you can make all that currently from newGRF side? :P
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05:47<Wolf01>hello o/
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06:01<@Alberth>hello
06:07<andythenorth>V453000: my point is that newgrfs shouldn't control that :P
06:07<andythenorth>I am declaring war on newgrf ;)
06:09<V453000>:P
06:09<andythenorth>newgrfs are stupid. They should just provide graphics and some fundamental properties
06:09<V453000>yes and no :)
06:10<V453000>it is great that you can do anything with a newGRF
06:10<V453000>but seeing how poorly playable for example most train sets are, could be fixed by unified mechanism :P
06:10<V453000>but where would be the fun :P
06:13<@Alberth>imho the decisions that need more overview should be kept in the game engine, but unfortunately, TTDP moved some of these things into newgrf too
06:14<@Alberth>which no doubt at the time was the best that could be done
06:15<V453000>possibilities are nice to have ... and nothing is idiot-proof :P
06:18<@Alberth>sure, we are probably making lots of stupid mistakes right now :p
06:20<andythenorth>the only real mistake was the idea that one author - making a trainset - should dictate the entire gameplay experience :)
06:21<@Alberth>the game is more than playing with trains????? :o :)
06:22<andythenorth>perhaps we should remove other types of transport?
06:22<andythenorth>simpler no?
06:22<@peter1138>let's scrap it all
06:22-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
06:23<andythenorth>can we make a text adventure version? o_O
06:24<@Alberth>open the console :p
06:30<V453000>that is pretty much what I meant andy :) but well
06:44-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd0e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
07:00<@Alberth>quak
07:00<frosch123>moin :)
07:03<Flygon>OpenTTD: Now ported to typewriter!
07:03<frosch123>sounds like libaa
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07:07<Pinkbeast>GET COAL. GO TO POWER STATION. DROP COAL.
07:09<Flygon>DRAW PICTURE OF COAL
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07:10<drac_boy>hi
07:11<Flygon>Heya
07:11<Flygon>We're playing typewriter OpenTTD
07:11<drac_boy>hm?
07:11<Flygon>PICK UP PASSENGERS FROM PLODDINGWAY. WAIT 6 DAYS AT STATION.
07:11<Flygon>Yeah, we ported it apperantly :D
07:11<@DorpsGek>type all caps until you get kicked
07:11<drac_boy>you're strange flygon :p
07:12<andythenorth>ADD NEWGRF TO RUNNING GAME. ABORT
07:12<andythenorth>COMPLAIN
07:12<Flygon>I love you, andythenorth
07:12<Wolf01>BUILD ROAD. BUILD ROAD. BUILD ROAD. BUILD ROAD. CHANGE DIRECTION. BUILD ROAD. BUILD ROAD. BUILD ROAD. BUILD BRIDGE. BUILD ROAD. BUILD ROAD.
07:12<Sturmi>NUKE ALL
07:12<andythenorth>UNDO UNDO UNDO
07:12<Flygon>Sturmi has been playing Alpha Centauri again
07:12<@Alberth>ERR: No nuke available
07:12<@DorpsGek>is there a way to pipe 'users' into 'kick' like 'xargs' or so?
07:13<andythenorth>START GAME. MAKE MORE NEWGRFS. PLAY AGAIN
07:13<Wolf01>ctrl + select on the user list
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07:14<Flygon>What have I done
07:15<@Alberth>you should release the game, it's gone be big
07:16*Flygon gives Alberth a typewriter and 54353 page instruction book
07:16<andythenorth>Alberth: it needs a shinier interface. Modern players expect modern standards. This game will never be big without modern graphics.
07:17<andythenorth>for example, games commonly played use anti-aliasing on their fonts
07:17<Flygon>But it's naturally antialiased
07:17<Flygon>TO THE ATOM
07:17<andythenorth>if we want to grow the userbase, we should implement AA. It's not much work. And if it is, we should consider rewriting all of the engine to support AA.
07:17<andythenorth>otherwise we'll never get a lot of players
07:18<Flygon>Doesn't 32bpp support AA?
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08:00<andythenorth>woo
08:01<andythenorth>a FIRS industry conversion compiled first time :P
08:06<andythenorth>30 open FIRS tickets :P
08:07<andythenorth>closed 8 this weekend :P
08:18<@peter1138>so, anyone collect hornby model railway stuff?
08:18<Pinkbeast>My dad used to, if that's any help. :-/
08:19<@peter1138>i have box of it
08:19<@peter1138>which i never use
08:19<@peter1138>so i wanna get rid of it
08:19<Pinkbeast>Ah, I see.
08:19<@peter1138>and an HST in original box
08:20<andythenorth>must be some train nerds here?
08:20<andythenorth>or save it for your kids?
08:20<andythenorth>:P
08:20<@peter1138>nah
08:20<@peter1138>got lego for that
08:21<andythenorth>this baby just did a massive burp
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08:38<frosch123>hmm ottd diff settings say "Vehicle running costs" for years..
08:38<frosch123>isn't "cost" one of those words without plural?
08:44-!-Superuser [~Superuser@host86-157-219-238.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
08:44<Superuser>Found an error in an original string
08:44<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SMOOTH_ECONOMY_HELPTEXT
08:44<Superuser>You can have multiple NewGRFs that affect industry, not just one. Remove the 'a'
08:45<Superuser>And yes, I did say I'm very pedantic with my corrections :)
08:45<frosch123>usually you only have one :p
08:45<Superuser>but you can have more :P
08:45<frosch123>(counting "ecs" as one)
08:45<frosch123>i don't know any
08:45<Superuser>well, I guess technically you can, so...
08:46<Superuser>I have not tried it though unless some server had more than one and I wasn't aware of it (I usually am not aware of a server configuration unless it's spelt out for me, lol
08:48-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.19.19.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
08:52<frosch123>damn... my google cookies totally screw my searches
08:52<frosch123>everytime i search a train term, the first hit is ottd wiki
08:52<frosch123>or other tt related sites
08:52<Superuser>it's called the filter buble. It's the reason I don't use Google Search anymore (unless I really have to)
08:52<Superuser>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble
08:52<frosch123>so, does someone have a more official name for roro stations? (in constrast to terminus station) which i could use in the settings gui?
08:53<Superuser>A more illustrated guide: http://dontbubble.us/
08:53<@peter1138>frosch123, no, costs is valid.
08:53<Superuser>^ That's the search engine I use btw
08:54<@peter1138>("costed" is wrong, but i don't think we use that)
08:57<@Alberth>true :)
08:58<frosch123>Superuser: even that directs me to ottd when searching "roro station" :p
08:59<frosch123>well, i will use "non-terminus" then
08:59<Superuser>Alberth, what do you think of the string I spoke about above? I remember you fixed a minor error I pointed out a while back.
09:00<@peter1138>http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-opposite-of/terminus.html
09:02<frosch123>hmm, looks i am unable to give an unbiased description of the disaster setting :p
09:02<@Alberth>Superuser: I see "a" as "any", ie it does not exclude the option to have more industry newgrfs
09:03<@Alberth>like "you get books from a book shop" does not exclude the option of visiting several book shops to get all your books
09:03<Superuser>I guess, but the previous translator did not realise this and translated 'a' to 'one (because there is no such thing as an ambiguous 'a' in Greek and probably in most languages)
09:04<Superuser>I wouldn't doubt that many other translations are incorrect due to this upstream ambiguity
09:04<@Alberth>Superuser: all spoken languages are ambiguous, no matter how you phrase things
09:05<Superuser>It is upstream's responsibility to remove these ambiguities though.
09:05<@Alberth>that's why we have judges :p
09:05<@peter1138>it's the translators job to not mis-translate ;p
09:06<@Alberth>Superuser: In English, it's correct. We don't speak most languages that have translations, so we cannot even find such mistakes.
09:07<Superuser>as you wish :'-(
09:07<@Alberth>ie you can change the English version, but some other translator will translatae that wrong as well
09:07<@Alberth>become a translator too, and fix the error would be my advice
09:08<Superuser>you know I *am* a tranlator right, and that I've modified at least 300 strings in the past week or two?
09:08<Superuser>Don't you see 'Evropi' *every day* in the latest automatic commit?
09:09<Flygon>Oh snap
09:09<Superuser>:P
09:09<@Alberth>sorry, I didn't know
09:09*frosch123 is currently about to remove about 30 translations from every language :p
09:10<@Alberth>and no, I don't even look at the translation commits, as I cannot read them anyway, and the system is ensuring technical correctness
09:11<Superuser>There is a feed that comes up at about 0:00 BST if I'm not mistaken, you can see my name there :)
09:11<Superuser>in the IRC
09:12<@Alberth>thank you for providing the translation :)
09:13<Superuser>thanks for providing a badass game :)
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09:18<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1958/ <- here you have a chance to correct strings before they are added :p
09:21<Superuser>I dunno, I think OpenTTD is leaning ever more towards feature creep
09:21<Superuser>It's slowly becoming Simutrans
09:21<Superuser>not sure if I agree with that :(
09:21<Flygon>Could always make two versions
09:22<drac_boy>Superuser simutrans...like how?
09:22<Superuser>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_RECESSIONS :Recessions: {STRING2} -----> probability of recessions occuring?
09:23<frosch123>its a bool setting, on/off
09:23<frosch123>btw. none of those settings are new
09:23<frosch123>they are the current difficulty settings
09:24<Superuser>yeah, I generally avoid the advanced settings menu hahaha
09:24<frosch123>you won't get around it in ottd 1.3 :p
09:24<frosch123>but it got better
09:25<Superuser>I don't want to do the ADOM thing (I read the manual for it before I played it; it took me two hours to read it) (ADOM is a huge roguelike game)
09:25*drac_boy has everything set up manually in ttdpatch.cfg anyway ... :P
09:25<drac_boy>heh
09:26<@Alberth>frosch123: Maximum amount a company can loan (without inflation) <-- (without taking inflaction into account) ?
09:26<frosch123>there should be a movie, like the last mohican, but with drac_boy
09:26<Superuser>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DISASTERS_HELPTEXT :Enable disasters which might occasionally block or destroy vehicles or infrastructure -----> 'might' to 'may' (http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/maymight/menu.php)
09:26<drac_boy>frosch123?
09:26<frosch123>drac_boy: "the last ttdp user"
09:26<drac_boy>I doubt that
09:27<@Alberth>frosch123: :Enable disasters <-- Toggle ?
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09:40<andythenorth>27 open FIRS tickets o_O
09:41<@Alberth>running out of things to do? :)
09:41<andythenorth>hardly :)
09:41<andythenorth>dan has drawn replacements for most of default industries
09:42<andythenorth>among other things ;)
09:42<@Alberth>nice, having some default industries was quite confusing to me ;)
09:43<andythenorth>interesting
09:43<andythenorth>I thought they would aid learning :o
09:47<frosch123>andythenorth: when you are done with firs, you can continue with ottd osx bugs :) you have a fair chance to get the number of osx specific bugs below the number of win specific bugs :p
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09:47<frosch123>you should value that historical chance :)
09:47<andythenorth>o_O
09:48<andythenorth>I have little chance of success :P
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09:48<Superuser>why not just compile wit mingw and the equivalent under Mac
09:48<frosch123>alternatively you can ofc find more win specific bugs :p
09:49<Superuser>that would solve 99% of your win-specific problems infa 100%
09:49<drac_boy>heh
09:49<frosch123>Superuser: we do not count the mingw specific bugs
09:49<Superuser>that's because you compile with MSVC...
09:50<frosch123>it is the reason we have separate win32 and win9x builds
09:50<frosch123>with the win9x build lacking various features
09:52<Superuser>fuck win9x, who uses that anyway? It is 12 years ago now since ME was released (the last in line before NT)
09:52<andythenorth>flyspray has no search filter for OS?
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09:53<frosch123>osx tasks are tagged in the title
09:53<frosch123>not all windows tasks yet thouzgh
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09:54<drac_boy>Superuser actually I use the 9x build for all windows computers
09:54<Superuser>why? Testing?
09:54<frosch123>maybe we can also add a [boring] task for stuff like fs#5209
09:54<drac_boy>nope
09:54<@Alberth>compability with ttdp :p
09:54<frosch123>thought that might offense people :p
09:55<Superuser>What is ttdp?
09:55<frosch123>or may? :p
09:55<drac_boy>Superuser I do it that way because that way I don't have to explain the silly useless 'unable to find ___' errors
09:55<drac_boy>I wish they would had not split the builds at 0.6 but meh whatever
09:55<Superuser>well, I guess it's okay as long as it doesn't affect other systems
09:55<andythenorth>12 open
09:56<andythenorth>for OS X
09:57<andythenorth>hmm
09:58<andythenorth>some of the OS X issues have a lot of attached patches
09:58<andythenorth>I guess they need testing?
10:00<Zuu>drac_boy: Since 1.2, OpenTTD will offer to download OpenGFX if it can't be found. Eg. even if you use the zip and not the installer, OpenTTD can in most cases grab the minimum data files to start up.
10:08<drac_boy>thats not the issue zuu
10:08<drac_boy>its not the grf.. its the system files
10:09<ntoskrnl>drac_boy: do you mean the msvcr libraries?
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10:53<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm coming from outside and have to think of Belugas for some reason
10:57<andythenorth>schnee?
10:57<Sturmi>you can keep yours
11:18<@peter1138>don't think of Belugas, he's mine
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12:59*Rubidium wonders whether Eddi saw white whale swimming in the street ;)
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13:03<Mister_Argent>'ello.
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24778 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-02 18:45:22 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>basque - 20 changes by lutxiketa
13:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 115 changes by Evropi
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 1 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 53 changes by Phreeze
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14:25<NGC3982>Evening, gents and mormons.
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14:28<andythenorth>I wish to announce that the game is unrealistic, and that this is a problem
14:29<frosch123>arctic is more realistic than the other climates
14:29<frosch123>it has snow
14:30<FLHerne>andythenorth: The answer is to make it more realistic. Your grfs help with that :-)
14:30<andythenorth>apparently the snow is not realistic enough
14:30<NGC3982>Yey, snow.
14:30<NGC3982>What is unrealistic?
14:30<andythenorth>pixels
14:31<andythenorth>pixels are very unrealistic
14:31<andythenorth>are pixels actually rectangular / square?
14:31<andythenorth>or do they have ragged edges?
14:32<NGC3982>Pixels are a great way to simulate reality. arbitrary points of building blocks actually exist in real life.
14:33<NGC3982>+A
14:35<NGC3982>The only thing that differs is size and charge. Just like formations of matter, the visible part of a pixel is not square or circular.
14:35<NGC3982>So, I would very much say s
14:35<NGC3982>that pixels are realistic*
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14:38<NGC3982>..If that was a serious thought at all.
14:38<frosch123>pixels are very realistic
14:38<frosch123>the world is made of small particles
14:39<frosch123>flat screens are unrealsitic though, if they force pixels to be rectangular
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>pixels were more round-ish on tube monitors :)
14:40<NGC3982>:-P
14:40<frosch123>what about ink and laser jets?
14:41<Sturmi>doesnt everything roundish belong to apple?
14:41<NGC3982>Why would rectangular shapes of matter be unrealistic?
14:42*NGC3982 should not stretch it that far.
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: rectangles are not differentiable
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>which makes them awfully un-physical
14:43<NGC3982>It's mandatory in agpwptajapatgmm
14:43<NGC3982>..
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>english only...
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14:47<NGC3982>Sorry, my mobile phone did not recognise chrystalisation.
14:47<frosch123>:p
14:47<NGC3982>Bah, IRC on Android sucks.
14:48<@peter1138>irc without a real keyboard sucks
14:48<NGC3982>Specially in combination with a bumpy train and a lousy connection.
14:48<NGC3982>True.
14:48<NGC3982>Although I
14:49<NGC3982>Ass. Bbl.
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>need speech-to-text-interface
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>(or brain-to-text-interface :))
14:49<frosch123>are you sure that one could handle chrystalisation ? :)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i'm sure it'll already fail horribly trying to recognize english in foreign accents
14:52<frosch123>are you sure? wouldn't it already cover a lot with england, wales, scottland, australia, us west, us east?
14:52-!-ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:53<Pinkbeast>+ Glasgow
14:55-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:56<frosch123>+ amdy
14:56<frosch123>+ andy
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15:03<andythenorth>I already have brain-to-text interface
15:03<andythenorth>I think nonsense, and it appears here
15:03<andythenorth>works perfectly
15:05<FLHerne>andythenorth: Is it called 'fingers'? :D
15:05<frosch123>is there is a chance to file a patent on it?
15:05<frosch123>*still
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>patent fingers?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty sure you can get that patented :)
15:14<andythenorth>as far as I can tell it's just magic
15:15<frosch123>darn, magic is likely already patented
15:17<SpComb>This patent describes a neurological process for ...
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15:53<drac_boy>hi
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16:27<NGC3982>There we are
16:27<NGC3982>Seriosly, my fingers are not compatible with Irssi Connectbot.
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16:28<Bad_Brett>Good evening
16:29<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Re: Rectangles. As far as i know, rectangles are mandatory in chrystalisation, and is a product of the golden ratio (hence, "the golden triangle").
16:29<NGC3982>But i guess it's un-natural enough to conjugate that rectangular pixels are un-natural.
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: that's not a rectangle, but four points that happen to have special distances
16:31<NGC3982>Ok
16:31<NGC3982>Ah
16:31<NGC3982>I think i understand the difference, yes.
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>i meant "rectangle" as in the area or the edges, not the corners
16:31<NGC3982>I see.
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>of course singular points are always differentiable in all directions that they have an expansion (i.e. none) :)
16:32<NGC3982>You mean: The natural use of rectangles are simply four dots with straight lines, indipendent of each other?
16:32<NGC3982>Since that seems very logical.
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: mathematically speaking, topological deformations of the 1-Sphere in a non-hilbert norm are probably "bad"
16:35<NGC3982>Ok
16:36*NGC3982 needs to google that.
16:36<NGC3982>http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QvlRhC9DWWo#!
16:36<NGC3982>Here's a cat with a camera on it.
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>that reminds me of "i need to focu... oh a butterfly"
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: a hilbert-space is a vector-space with a scalar product. a norm induces a scalar product if it satisfies the "parallelogram equation"
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>||a+b||^2+||a-b||^2 = 2||a||^2+2||b||^2
16:39-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
16:39<NGC3982>Yes, i'm about to google that.
16:39<NGC3982>Though, a follow up question.
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>(in such spaces you can talk about orthogonality and stuff)
16:40*NGC3982 holds the question and keeps reading.
16:41<NGC3982>I wish i knew as much of mathematics as i do of astronomy.
16:41<NGC3982>Since that formula did not tell me anything, at all.
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>if you take the |R^2 as example, then the 1-Norm and the inf-Norm, which produce "squares" as 1-sphere, do not suffice this equation, but the 2-Norm (euclidean norm) does
16:41*NGC3982 knows David Hilbert trough his hotel, though.
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: a+b and a-b are the diagonals of a parallelogram, a and b are the edges
16:42<NGC3982>Ok
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>so if you take the square over all 4 edges, it equals the square over the diagonals
16:43<NGC3982>I'll complete the swedish wiki entry, and i'll come back to nag you with questions, since i found this very interesting.
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>and the 1-sphere is the set of all points with distance < 1 to the origin
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17:00<@Terkhen>good night
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17:19<frosch123>lol... some guy reported some win8 issues during the beta (may)... now i asked him back whether they still apply and he answered he is using linux now :p
17:19<Bad_Brett>haha
17:21<FLHerne>Win8 is the best release ever - for Linux lovers :D
17:23<Bad_Brett>it's a close all though...
17:23<Bad_Brett>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzFUcDKC64E
17:24<Bad_Brett>*call
17:26<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: This Wiki made me sweat.
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17:40<Nat_aS>Bad_Brett: what about vista?
17:41<Bad_Brett>hehe... yeah that's a good one as well
17:41<Nat_aS>Any even numbered windows version is good for linux
17:41<Nat_aS>:p
17:42<Bad_Brett>though i personally didn't have that many problems with it, as soon as i deactivated all the stupid default settings
17:42<Nat_aS>(2000 is not even numbered, because that's it's name not version number)
17:42<Nat_aS>vista or 8?
17:42<Bad_Brett>it was actually more stable than XP for me
17:42<Nat_aS>hrm rly?
17:42<Bad_Brett>vista
17:42<Bad_Brett>yes
17:42<Nat_aS>vista was fine if you had a good computer
17:42<Nat_aS>if you look at it one way, vista is the reason everyone has 8gigs of ram now
17:43<Nat_aS>(when you only need like, one to run 7 lol)
17:43<Nat_aS>actualy, my netbook was running windows 7 just fine with 512
17:43<Nat_aS>It was slow because of the processor though
17:43<Nat_aS>I upgraded the ram to 1 gig
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17:43<Nat_aS>and nothing changed
17:44<Nat_aS>so windows has gotten really memory efficant since vista
17:44<Bad_Brett>yeah
17:44<Nat_aS>even though now people buy 8 gigs just because they can, and because they remember vista
17:45<Bad_Brett>i didn't have any memory problems with vista (after i had deactivated hundreds of stupid default settings) :)
17:45<Nat_aS>they think memory will make there computer go faster, but really the only thing that can make it go faster is the CPU and the HDD
17:45<Nat_aS>everything else is a bottleneck
17:45<frosch123>the hdd is not the bottleneck when compiling ottd
17:45<Nat_aS>but once you open the bottleneck, it's up to the CPU to actualy make things go fast
17:45<Nat_aS>lol
17:45<Nat_aS>well when people say "My computer is slow"
17:45<Nat_aS>these days
17:45<drac_boy>I only did xppro from ms for some time .. but now finally can't be bothered with ms anymore .. if anyone asked me for a pc as usual they only have the choice of linux alone
17:45<Nat_aS>it's because they need an SSD
17:45<drac_boy>but then mm
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17:46<Nat_aS>or at least a HDD with more than 5000rpm
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17:46<Bad_Brett>it depends
17:46<Nat_aS>people just buy big HDDs, instead of fast ones
17:46<Nat_aS>processors are rediclious now
17:46<Nat_aS>unless you want a whimpy netbook one
17:47<Bad_Brett>if you create a lot of 3d graphics/music the ram is actually the bottleneck in many cases
17:47<Bad_Brett>the memory usage goes up to 100% and then the computer crashes :P
17:47<frosch123>the ram is also not the bottleneck when compiling ottd
17:48<frosch123>you guys just do wrong things with your computer
17:48<Bad_Brett>no no
17:48<Nat_aS>yes, but most users don't do that
17:48<frosch123>but they should
17:48<frosch123>the world would be a better place
17:48<Nat_aS>unless you are an artist, you don't need more than 2 gigs
17:48<Nat_aS>lots of people think they are artists though
17:49<Nat_aS>and spend tons of money on memory
17:49<frosch123>i have 2 gig per core, is that ok as non-artist?
17:49<drac_boy>mind you one of the build I'm working on now has a pny quadro card in it only because of wanting some good opengl support .. which the intel gma seem to be a bit short on
17:49<frosch123>or am i an artist?
17:49<FLHerne>Nat_aS: I'm not an artist, and push myself out of 4GB and into swap all too easily :-(
17:49<Bad_Brett>try rendering a higly detailed picture in 3ds max with advanced ray-tracing with 2 gb ram
17:49<Nat_aS>yeah, you need 8 gigs if you are an artist
17:49<Bad_Brett>it will most likely crash
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17:50<frosch123>drac_boy: i also have a quadro, does that make me an artist?
17:50<FLHerne>Bad_Brett: That probably does count as 'artist' :P
17:50<Bad_Brett>yeah i guess :)
17:50<Nat_aS>if you are a regular user, get what the manufacturer lists as default
17:51<drac_boy>frosch123 opengl is more than just artists :p
17:51<frosch123>i only get it because the consumer products all annoyed me with there non-descripive specs
17:51<frosch123>so i went for cheap professional product, as it just said what it does
17:52<drac_boy>frosch123 so what kind of setup do you have?
17:52<frosch123>i just wanted something which could run two digital screens at their full resolution
17:52<frosch123>1920x1050, and i just could not figure that out for regular cards :p
17:52<drac_boy>heh no I meant the computer itself ;)
17:53<frosch123>while the catalogue for the "professional" products just listing everything i might want to know
17:53<frosch123>drac_boy: 2.5 years old, i5 quadcore
17:54<drac_boy>mm lga775 QC series cpu I'm guessing?
17:54<frosch123>sdd for /usr, hdd for the rest, 2gb per core, ramdisk for ottd objects
17:55<frosch123>is there some way to figure that out via software?
17:56<Nat_aS>whanna know another platau
17:56<Nat_aS>Graphics cards
17:56<drac_boy>well you said you're running linux right frosch123?
17:56<frosch123>yes
17:56<Nat_aS>video game graphics haven't been progressing
17:56<Nat_aS>because consoles are overdue for a generation upgrade
17:56<frosch123>lspci and proc/cpuinfo do not show something like that
17:57<frosch123>"Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67GHz" <- unless that 750 says something
17:57<Nat_aS>and developers don't want to make PC games with drasticly better graphics than there console ports
17:57<Nat_aS>so game graphics haven't changed much since 06
17:57<Nat_aS>so GPUs haven't needed to be upgraded either
17:57<drac_boy>frosch123 hmm well either way not too bad
17:58<drac_boy>I'm working on something thats going to have i3 3220T paired with pny quadro card
17:58<frosch123>pm's 2 year newer computer was 20% faster with compiling ottd iirc
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18:01*drac_boy pokes flygon
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18:21<Wolf01>'night
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18:47<Mister_Argent>Argh. only three refineries on the map are clear across the map from my Oilfield/machine shop...
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18:57<MNIM>argh?
18:57<MNIM>you mean WOOOO
18:57<MNIM>'cus that means payday!
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19:31*Flygon prods drac_boy
19:31<drac_boy>so what doing flygon?
19:31<Flygon>Well
19:31<Flygon>Just had breakfast
19:31<Flygon>Had a chat to my friend about how animation works
19:32<Flygon>And now I'm going to work on a non-animated image that you probably don't want to view :p
19:33<drac_boy>heh why not? :P
19:34<Flygon>Uuuuuuh
19:34<Flygon>You just wouldn't @_@
19:35<drac_boy>you're a weird one? ;)
19:37<Flygon>I'll take this to query
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21:46<Supercheese>@seen Pikka
21:46<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 28 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 12 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Pikka> hello Alberth
21:49<Bad_Brett>28 weeks??
21:53<Supercheese>apparently so
21:53<Supercheese>If I had to guess, I'd postulate the drama related to SAC & simuscape is related to his extended absence. Either that and/or he's busy IRL
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22:52<Bad_Brett>what is simuscape?
22:52<Supercheese>http://www.simuscape.net/simutalk/index.php
22:52<Supercheese>(requires registration)
22:52<Bad_Brett>yeah i'm there now
22:52<Supercheese>Relatively new forums operated by SAC
22:53<Supercheese>it's... complicated
22:55<Bad_Brett>i don't get it... is it another tt clone?
22:57<Bad_Brett>ok...
22:57<Bad_Brett>it's some kind of... artist guild?
22:57<Supercheese>From what I've gathered, SAC didn't like certain things about OTTD & TT-forums
22:57<Supercheese>So apparently the solution was a new forum
22:58<Supercheese>Now, you have to go there to download certain GRFs
22:58<Supercheese>since the people at Simuscape generally don't like BaNaNaS for one reason or another and refuse to use it
22:59<Bad_Brett>well that kind of sucks
22:59<Supercheese>Well, it's better than not being able to get those GRFs at all
23:00<Supercheese>but yeah, it's definitely not optimal
23:01<Supercheese>Currently, the only major GRFs you have to go to Simuscape for are the Canadian set grfs
23:01<Supercheese>There's some other minor grfs there too
23:01<Supercheese>"Minor" and "major" being categories I completely made up ;)
23:01<Bad_Brett>:)
23:04<Bad_Brett>but i still don't get it
23:04<Bad_Brett>what's wrong with BaNaNaS?
23:04<Supercheese>That's very much a matter of opinion
23:05<Supercheese>Me? I think it has only minor UI issues
23:05<Supercheese>Others? Different opinions
23:07<Bad_Brett>Hmm
23:08<Bad_Brett>I haven't released anything yet so I guess I don't know too much about these issues
23:09<Bad_Brett>so pikka is doing his updates there now?
23:09<Supercheese>No
23:10<Supercheese>Pikka is sticking with Bananas and TT forums, when he posts updates (which is pretty infrequently)
23:11<Bad_Brett>good
23:12<Bad_Brett>so, are you working on something right now?
23:13<Supercheese>Star Trek Online :)
23:13<Supercheese>not OTTD related, of course
23:13<Supercheese>but I've had a request for above-ground versions of the subways
23:13<Supercheese>so I'll probably work on that over Christmas break
23:14<Bad_Brett>cool
23:32-!-roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.105.114] has joined #openttd
23:35<Supercheese>Anyway, gotta "livestream" Assassin's Creed 3 --- to my family in the other room!
23:35<Supercheese>valete omnes
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 03 00:00:52 2012