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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-08

---Logopened Sat Dec 08 00:01:04 2012
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03:30<andythenorth>bonsoir
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03:37<Rubidium>bonnuit ;)
03:51<dihedral>oi
03:55<@Terkhen>good morning
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05:09<@Alberth>o/ Wolf01
05:09<Wolf01>hello :D
05:10<Wolf01>finally I was able to change the steam client scrollbars width
05:10<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
05:11<@Terkhen>linux or windows? :P
05:11<@Alberth>true
05:11<Wolf01>windows
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05:12<Wolf01>I set the OS scrollbar size to 30px, but steam still had that 19px one, but moved 11px away from the border
05:12<@Alberth>lol
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05:14<Eddi|zuHause>now someone solve my problem with logging in to steam... :/
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05:15<Eddi|zuHause>it works on windows in a vm, and in linux, but not in wine (anymore)... it's like it's opening a connection, but then not transferring anything
05:15<Wolf01>I know wine has some problems with connections
05:16<@Terkhen>the last time I tried to use steam on wine I did not run into any problems; I was going to set it up later
05:16<Wolf01>I have the same problem with a photo printing software on wine
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>well, it worked before
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>and i tried older versions of wine, and it didn't help
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>so it seems to be something on my system that is screwed up
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>but a clean prefix didn't help either
05:21<Wolf01>mine too worked before, but now.. meh
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05:37<@Alberth>o/ andy
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05:56<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: steam on wine does not even show strings for me, so I cannot check if I have the same problem or not
05:56<@Terkhen>I'll try to fix that later
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: start with -no-dwrite
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: or disable dwrite.dll
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>it's a known problem :)
05:58<@Terkhen>oh, ok, thanks :)
05:59-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00bb03.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:00<@Terkhen>"Steam is having problems connecting to the Steam servers" <-- I got this message, but at the second attempt I managed to log in
06:00<@Terkhen>it seems to be working fine
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, nobody else seems to have the problem
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>so nobody can help solve it :/
06:01<@Terkhen>:(
06:01<Wolf01>did you try to install additional components such the vc runtimes with winetricks?
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i have all those.
06:06<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: btw. the vehicle pool was increased from 64k to 1M
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>ah
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>but he said 1.1.1 :)
06:07<frosch123>well, does not matter; i doubt he manages to compile
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06:25<TrueBrain>Terkhen: I even get that problem on Windows from time to time .. first time it cannot connect, next time it works just fine ... stupid Steam :(
06:26<@Terkhen>given that kind of errors, let's see if they manage to make it work on linux :P
06:26<TrueBrain>define 'work' :D
06:27<@Terkhen>I got the beta a few days ago; yesterday I set everything up just to find that steam games do not like bumblebee
06:27<@Terkhen>"I can open a game and play"
06:29<MNIM>hmmmh, speaking of steam
06:29<MNIM>how's the announced port coming along?
06:30<@Terkhen>it runs fine on my integrated graphics card, but of course 3D intensive games are slow and barely playable
06:30<@Terkhen>when I try to run steam on the dedicated graphics card, it is not able to launch any game because it overwrites some system variable that bumblebee wants to use too
06:31<@Terkhen>so... no idea :P
06:40<ntoskrnl>Terkhen: temporary files are almost always something to avoid. on the other hand, having a 1MB buffer in memory for the whole PNG may not be a good idea either. isn't stream based IO an option?
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09:06<drac_boy>hi
09:06<Superuser>hey guys, why is OpenTTD not XDG-compliant? I don't like programs that spam .folders
09:06<drac_boy>xdg?
09:07<Superuser>http://freegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/game-developers-standardize-custom-user.html
09:13<@Terkhen>I never heard about that
09:13<drac_boy>superuser I'll give the same answer I give to ms users: NO THANKS
09:14<@Terkhen>does that xdg thing have a website somewhere that explains what i tis?
09:14<@Terkhen>it is*
09:14<drac_boy>it just causes too many problems for cloned apps with different settings
09:14<drac_boy>but meh :)
09:14<__ln___>http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html but...
09:14<__ln___>but uh oh, it lists Lennart Poettering as one of the authors.
09:14<Superuser>why do you say that drac_boy
09:14<Superuser>and define 'cloned apps'
09:15<ntoskrnl>derivative apps will have a different name and hence also a different config directory
09:15<Superuser>why do people hate Poettering so much? He's the man that solved the UEFI problem (which was slightly overblown, but still important)
09:15<Superuser>are there any *actual* forks of OpenTTD? Be realistic.
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09:16<drac_boy>ntoskrnl not really...I have a few instances of Gnumeric but clicking each one shows you different presets nevertheless
09:17<__ln___>Superuser: he's the reason that audio still isn't usable on Linux.
09:17<drac_boy>and no its nothing to do with aliases/flags
09:17<Superuser>ALSA you mean? Implementation's fault
09:17<@Terkhen>Superuser: feel free to create a flyspray task with this, but my opinion is that if something's not broken we should not change it
09:17<Superuser>distros' fault
09:18<drac_boy>heh terkhen thats rather true
09:18<ntoskrnl>drac_boy: i can't see how this XDG changes anything, the settings are just stored in subfolders instead of directly in ~
09:18<Superuser>It's fucking annoying that programs have since the days of UNIX spammed one's home folder with fuckloads of dot-folders
09:18<Superuser>yeah
09:18<Superuser>it makes things that much cleaner
09:18<drac_boy>superuser so you never ever noticed that ms does it tons worser?
09:18<Superuser>and more predictable
09:18<drac_boy>and yet everyone expect thats the normal
09:18<Superuser>not really, it makes it more predictable
09:18<drac_boy>nope
09:18<Superuser>when I installed hexchat I went to .config and voila it was there
09:19<Superuser>not an ugly xchat2 folder
09:19<__ln___>Superuser: *voilĂ 
09:19<Superuser>it makes things more predictable. MS does this in a shit way with Application Data and Local Settings\Application Data
09:19<Superuser>and it's generally confusing
09:19<@Terkhen>hmmm...
09:19<Superuser>Most games have reached the unofficial standard of saving to My Documents\My Games though, but I don't think that's official
09:20<__ln___>Superuser: start boycotting applications that don't conform to XDG.
09:20<Superuser>loads of games do it tho
09:20<@Terkhen>now that I think of it, IIRC the place where OpenTTD places its configuration can be changed via compilation options
09:20<@Terkhen>so you may want to ask the person who packages openttd for your distribution
09:21<Superuser>I got it from the website...
09:21<ntoskrnl>%appdata% is not the user's home folder... it's not the default directory for a shell and users don't see it all the time
09:21<Superuser>a .deb
09:23<@Terkhen>if that's the case, feel free to create a flyspray task; I don't know much about how this change would affect distribution packaging, you may get more informed opinions about the feasability of the change there
09:23<Superuser>bug.openttd.org right?
09:23<@Terkhen>bugs.
09:24<Superuser>I predict a WONTFIX label, but I'll go ahead anyway, thanks
09:25<@Terkhen>in my opinion it's not a bug :P
09:26<ntoskrnl>yeah, it's just that openttd hasn't yet caught up with a new standard
09:27<drac_boy>and its still messing up with some older ones too..I still can't even run more than one ottd folder on ms ... why? -_-
09:31<Superuser>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5385 dum de dum
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09:36<frosch123>he, we rejected that years ago :p
09:36<Rubidium>oh... may I write a nice thing about that? ;)
09:36<frosch123>ottd folder is a mixture of recoverable and personal data
09:38<frosch123>as far as i got back then, xdg is for small applications with a single file, or maybe two
09:38<frosch123>ottd has several thousand
09:38<frosch123>at least my ottd install :p
09:39<@Terkhen>oh, I assumed that it would be a relatively recent standard :P
09:41<frosch123>well, meanwhile i even have that folder :p
09:41<frosch123>last time it was suggested i did not have it, since no application used it
09:42<frosch123>now there are all the standard desktop things
09:43<Superuser>most proprietary developers don't support it but they don't give a fuck about standards anyway and just place shit in /opt
09:43<ntoskrnl>adobe media server dumps everything in /opt... libraries, configuration, everything
09:44<ntoskrnl>comes with its own openssl and zlib
09:44<Superuser>also, XDG is a desktop standard, so things like .subversion and .gem (Ruby) are still in separate dot-folders
09:44<__ln___>isn't /opt the correct place for shit then?
09:44<Superuser>dear oh dear
09:44<Superuser>well said :)
09:44<Superuser>fuck adobe
09:45<__ln___>ntoskrnl: openssl has a constantly changing ABI, so you can't rely on finding a compatible version on a particular system.
09:46<ntoskrnl>fair enough i guess
09:46<Superuser>still pissed off that kernel developers shat on FatELF
09:46<TinoDidriksen>They could have gone the nVidia route and made a shim to the OS versions.
09:47<Superuser>it would have finally given developers used to Windows' and Mac OS's standardisation that confidence
09:47<__ln___>Superuser: btw, FatELF is currently being considered for Haiku.
09:47<Superuser>but it would help proprietary developers too much. BULLSHIT. Distro release cycles are the cancer killing the Linux desktop
09:48<ntoskrnl>just use freebsd =P
09:48<Superuser>ehh it's being increasingly locked out
09:49<Superuser>companies like RedHat support Linux-specific projects like systemd and wayland
09:49<@Terkhen>what's wrong with release cycles?
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09:49<Superuser>Terkhen: consider Ubuntu's 6 month release cycle. It doesn't even let game developers make major updates to their games. I understand if your Apache depended on it, but a game? C'mon.
09:49<frosch123>Terkhen: the compromise between features of today, and stability of in 3 years :p
09:50<@Terkhen>switch to a distribution which suits your tastes :P
09:50<Superuser>It assumes all software follows the release cycle of the Linux kernel, for which individual versions are maintained for years on end. That's just false
09:51<Superuser>You're not being realistic Terkhen. Almost all OpenTTD Linux players are on a Debian-based distro, none of which are particularly bleeding-edge.
09:51<@Terkhen>I did not say that the distribution which suits your tastes exists
09:51<Superuser>most of them probably get an outdated version from their package manager and play that. They may be disillusioned by it
09:51<Rubidium>how new is that xdg spec actually?
09:52<@Terkhen>there is nothing inherently wrong in debian release cycle, it may be good for some users but bad for others
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09:53<Superuser>It gives you ancient software. It makes sense for something like a programming language, but not for games. No games follow that release cycle and the latest release version tends to be the greatest
09:53<@Terkhen>I do agree that a distribution with a different take on release cycles would be welcome, but I don't think that existing distributions should change their release cycles
09:53<Superuser>very few OSS games offer binaries for Linux, they force users to compile the source
09:53<@Terkhen>they have their own philosophies to follow
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09:54<Superuser>Nah they should, they are QAing everything and it ain't the right approach. People expect to have the software version talked about on a program's website.
09:54<frosch123>Rubidium: squeeze knows about it, lenny doesn't
09:54<@Terkhen>I'm quite sure that debian stable users expect it to be stable :P
09:54<Superuser>In practice, most Ubuntu users for instance (relatively nontechnical) don't understand PPAs and are afraid of the command line
09:55<Superuser>lol yeah, but Debian-stable users tend to be either OSS fanatics or system administrators. Who get shit graphical drivers that can hardly play a game.
09:56<TinoDidriksen>Well then, get OTTD on Steam for Linux!
09:56<@Terkhen>why should you force them to change their release schedule then?
09:56<@Terkhen>the distribution is not aimed for people with the problems you mention
09:56<Superuser>Because they're killing off potential market share.
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09:56<@Terkhen>ubuntu may think that it is aimed for the problems you mention, but it is not
09:56<Superuser>My dad always downloads the latest version of OpenOffice on his Windows PC (I moved him to LibreOffice btw)
09:57<Superuser>a lot of people are obsessed with having the latest software. That's why programs on Windows like the filehippo update checker are so popular
09:57<@Terkhen>what I'm trying to say is: debian is not wrong, because it does what it is meant to do for its users
09:57<@Terkhen>if you want bleeding edge, move to another distribution
09:57<@Terkhen>if you want a stable core and bleeding edge on the rest, you may need a new distribution
09:57<Superuser>yes, but debian doesn't go full desktop, it acts as a jack of all trades, but it knows well it's mainly a server distro
09:57<frosch123>[15:56] <Superuser> Because they're killing off potential market share. <- haha, did you ever consider that someone might not be heading for market share?
09:58<@Terkhen>but that does not mean that existing distributions are wrong, they do what they are meant to do
09:58<@Terkhen>they are just not for everyone
09:58<@Terkhen>that's the whole point of having distributions, freedom of choice :P
09:58<Superuser>Indeed, but you're consistently looking at niche distributions
09:58<Superuser>Ubuntu and Linux Mint should definitely try to offer the latest. Mint DOES do this if you file a bug, but someone has to step up and do that.
09:59<Superuser>I don't know about Ubuntu
09:59<Superuser>distros for the mainstream desktop user should definitely follow that approach. If I'm not mistaken, Ubuntu 12.04 still packages 1.15 ;)
10:02<@Terkhen>I tried Mint and removed it... why do they have to change my chromium preferences to point to their website? I thought that was limited to windows malware
10:03<Superuser>hehe
10:03<Superuser>I'm glad that DDG is sponsoring them tho :)
10:04<Rubidium>there is only ONE "distribution" that reliably allows you to get the latest version of anything without walking ways that are not the default way for the distribution
10:04<@Terkhen>which is? :P
10:04<Rubidium>it also allows you to have perfectly optimised binaries and libraries specific to your hardware and needs; no need for lots of bloat
10:04<Rubidium>Terkhen: obviously LFS
10:04<@Terkhen>heh :D
10:05<Superuser>keke
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10:06<drac_boy>not really ;)
10:06<@Terkhen>for now I'm happy with arch, until one of these days I update and I'm greeted by a black screen
10:07<@Terkhen>but after trying other distributions I went back to it :P
10:12<Superuser>Rubidium: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5385
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10:14<TinoDidriksen>I just don't see the problem. They start with a . for a reason.
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10:44<Superuser>TinoDidriksen: I have to scroll through literally dozens of these dot-folders. Dozens. Any full-time Linux user has to do this.
10:44<TinoDidriksen>Scroll through when? Only when I do ls -a or turn on displaying hidden files/folders.
10:45<Superuser>The worst part is that package managers by default leave all the dot-shit behind and you have to clean it up. Which I can't be arsed to do with the volume of stuff I install
10:45<Superuser>same
10:45<Superuser>it's a lot of folders man
10:50<Pinkbeast>Why clean it up? It doesn't show up without ls -a and it's tiny.
11:07<drac_boy>pinkbeast I agree...I only see like 6 folders all the times
11:07<drac_boy>six is NOTHING :)
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11:09<NGC3982>Evening.
11:14<Pinkbeast>Well, I've got a bunch of junk in my home directory, but using a tool that's buggy inasmuch as it shows dotfiles by default and then complaining you can see dotfiles is just making a rod for your own back. :-)
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11:20<Rubidium>Superuser: I never scroll through dozens of . folders
11:21<Rubidium>what will be annoying is that for the config file I would have to be in .config/openttd/openttd.cfg which is at least 4 keystrokes more than I need now
11:22<Rubidium>also moving files around is a nuisance, especially if you run nightlies *and* stable releases (which isn't uncommon at all)
11:24<Rubidium>furthermore the "where is the config file" is going to be horribly more complicated
11:24<Rubidium>it's not simple $XDF_CONFIG_HOME/openttd nor ~/.config/openttd
11:26<Rubidium>and last, but definitely not least: it breaks portable installations!
11:28<Rubidium>also, how good can a specification be if it doesn't even mention a date of introduction?
11:29<Rubidium>not to mention that *properly* supporting that specification means searching an arbitrary amount of folders for the configuration file
11:30<Rubidium>which will be a lot of fun to debug... NOT
11:31<Superuser>At least you could use SOME parts of the spec
11:31<Rubidium>also, the specifications fail on Windows
11:31<Superuser>like XDG_PICTURES_DIR for Pictures
11:31<Superuser>true, but you use different environment variables on Windows anyway.
11:31<Rubidium>well, I'd go for XDF_OPENTTD_DIR for OpenTTD stuff
11:31<Rubidium>that nicely redirects to ~ ;)
11:31<Rubidium>Superuser: why?
11:32<Superuser>because it is guaranteed to work with every linux distribution
11:32<Superuser>and it is always in the same place
11:32<Superuser>unless the distro changed it ofc
11:32<Rubidium>I doubt that guarantee is made
11:33<Rubidium>and if you implement a specification, you must implement it correctly, not half arsed
11:33<Superuser>Doubt again
11:33<Rubidium>also...
11:33<Rubidium>what does PICTURES mean?
11:33<Rubidium>any .png file?
11:34<Rubidium>by the way, it's not in the specifications
11:34<Superuser>yeah that's the basedir spec
11:34<Superuser>there are other specs that cover this
11:34<Rubidium>so heightmaps belong in PICTURES
11:35<Superuser>Example https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xdg_user_directories
11:35<Superuser>no, pictures is where you save screenshots
11:35<Rubidium>really, if someone expects this to be implemented/adopted, they should write a simple library for that
11:36<Superuser>you just use environment variables, much easier than a library...
11:36<Rubidium>says who? what specification?
11:36<Superuser>?
11:36<Rubidium>Superuser: yes... much easier... right
11:37<Superuser>so I guess you won't do this.
11:37<Rubidium>I'd want a get_xdg_config_path("openttd/openttd.cfg") that does all tricky stuff for me
11:37<Rubidium>as currently I would have to:
11:37<Rubidium>a) read an environment variable
11:37<Rubidium>b) if that variable exist, make sure it is a proper absolute path
11:38<Superuser>b is false, they all have defaults
11:38<Superuser>so you can just leave it null
11:38<Rubidium>c) if it doesn't exist, read the HOME environment variable, if that doesn't exist use getpwuid(getuid)->pwdir or fail
11:39<Rubidium>d) if the file is not there, I would have to read another environment variable, split that on colons and test all those folders as well
11:39<Superuser>standardisation hurts.
11:39<Rubidium>which is loads and loads of stupid work that each and every person implementing this needs to do
11:40<Rubidium>so... it NEEDS a simple library that handles all the crap and corner cases
11:40<Superuser>how many lines would you actually have to change? There are like 30 config files with a clean install
11:40<Rubidium>prefereably one that allows inserting custom search folders as well
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11:41<Rubidium>it's not changing, it's adding
11:42<Rubidium>and splitting the single set of paths three or four times
11:42<Rubidium>and basically breaking portable installs of OpenTTD
11:42<Rubidium>not to mention the current ones
11:42<Rubidium>unless we keep the $HOME fallback
11:43<Superuser>which breaks portable installs too.
11:43<Rubidium>and just keep everything and dump all the 'new' crap into the .config directory
11:44<Rubidium>Superuser: no, one could add a single!!! location for all files of OpenTTD to the search path without breaking stuff
11:44<Rubidium>this would imply that it would not migrate to the xdg crap immediately though; only when the user does it manually or when (s)he trashes the ~/.openttd folder
11:45<Rubidium>otherwise it will still keep using the .openttd folder (if the config file is already there)
11:45<Rubidium>for new installs it would use the .config directory
11:45<Rubidium>... but we would be equally violating the specifications
11:46<Superuser>wouldn't providing a bash script with a nice little mv -f do the trick?
11:46<Rubidium>for who?
11:46<Rubidium>not for $noob
11:46<Superuser>everyone upgrading to openttd 1.3
11:46<Rubidium>not for $dev
11:46<Superuser>for $inbetween?
11:46<Rubidium>not for $advanced_user_using_multiple_versions
11:47<@Alberth>for all windows users, of course
11:47<Superuser>do people actually do that?
11:47*Alberth raises hand
11:47<Rubidium>Superuser: use multiple versions?
11:47<Superuser>yes
11:47<@Terkhen>devs do it all the time, as does everyone who wants to play online in stable servers and single player with nightlies
11:47<Rubidium>nah, roughly all translators and 'geeks' that want to have the newest version and play multiplayer at a time
11:48<Superuser>I wonder why, lol, I think there are some NewGRF incompatibilities between >=1.2 and <1.2
11:48<@Terkhen>allowing NewGRF incompatibilities belongs to NewGRF utopia :P
11:49<Pinkbeast>Anyone trying to decide which patchpack they like (raising my own hand)
11:49<Rubidium>Superuser: who said 1.1.x and 1.2.x together?
11:50<Rubidium>I'm talking about nightlies, patchpacks and the likes
11:50<Superuser>ah I see
11:50<Superuser>ok then, no xdg compliance
11:51<Superuser>meh
11:51<Superuser>still, you're doing it wrong, as 4chan would say
11:54<frosch123>you should stop reading 4chan, and read xkcd instead
11:54<Rubidium>no, we're not doing it wrong
11:54<Rubidium>doing something wrong implies doing something
11:54<Superuser>yes, you are actively opposing the standard
11:54<Superuser>doing
11:55<Rubidium>and I would actually reckon that most custom implementations of said specifications have not implemented it correctly
11:55<Superuser>FUD
11:55<Rubidium>oh... a specification of less than a year old is now already a standard?
11:55<Rubidium>by whom's authority?
11:56<Rubidium>as I see it... by gnome
11:56<@Terkhen>urgh :P
11:57<Superuser>except that KDE, LXDE and Xfce are also fully compliant :P
11:57<Superuser>and a bunch of software.
11:59<Rubidium>I'm not opposed to the standard, I'm opposed to manually implementing the standard to get the right path
11:59<Rubidium>as I said, it involves quite a bit of complexity
12:01<Rubidium>and for what it's worth, we comply with the unix file system "standard"
12:04-!-snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd
12:08<Rubidium>also, we comply with the FHS (file hierarchy standard) and LSB (Linux standard base)
12:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24800 trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp (2012-12-08 17:18:30 UTC)
12:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5327] (r21933): Glitch in timetable GUI. (sbr)
12:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24801 /trunk/src (18 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-08 17:18:51 UTC)
12:18<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add functions to set integral DParams to suitable values for size computations.
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12:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24802 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2012-12-08 17:19:09 UTC)
12:19<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#4224]: When displaying the previous news message, don't consider news which are turned off.
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13:39*dihedral thinks r25k should be worth a party ^^
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13:44<andythenorth>bonjour
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24803 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-12-08 18:45:27 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>basque - 82 changes by lutxiketa
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian - 9 changes by Parastais
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 66 changes by Terkhen
13:45<@DorpsGek>ukrainian - 1 changes by edd_k
13:47<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
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13:51<supermop>andythenorth: what's a good pixel drawing program for osx?
13:52<supermop>flying to london in a couple hours and only taking my work computer
13:52<supermop>want to draw sprites on the flight
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14:11<andythenorth>supermop: photostrop
14:11<andythenorth>and it's cold in London, have a coat
14:11<andythenorth>at least I assume it's cold
14:11<andythenorth>it's cold here
14:12<frosch123>isn't it supposed to be rainy?
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14:14<andythenorth>dunno
14:16<andythenorth>meh
14:16<andythenorth>nothing in forums
14:17<frosch123>at lot of nothingness might indicate invisible unicorns
14:18<andythenorth>as I can't seee any, they must be there
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15:49<supermop>andythenorth: free and that i can get in the next 30 minutes
15:49<andythenorth>photoshop CS trial version?
15:50<andythenorth>seashore is gimp compatible, but kills battery on my mac
15:50<andythenorth>supermop: http://seashore.sourceforge.net/The_Seashore_Project/About.html
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15:51<andythenorth>http://paintbrush.sourceforge.net
15:52<andythenorth>supermop: paintbrush looks ok
15:52<andythenorth>no way to load a palette afaict
15:53<supermop>ah hmm
15:53<supermop>can load into ps when i get home
15:53<andythenorth>supermop: http://pixenapp.com
15:53<andythenorth>pixel specific :o
15:54<andythenorth>http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/
15:54<andythenorth>also pixel specific
15:55<andythenorth>pixen loaded my dos palette ok (CLUT file)
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16:14<supermop>ahh hmm paid app
16:16<andythenorth>free beta?
16:16<andythenorth>I just googled them tbh :)
16:17<supermop>heh
16:17<supermop>hmm mypaint?
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16:22<andythenorth>looks a bit pressure-brush orientated
16:22<andythenorth>can probably do pixels :P
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16:27<supermop>ok headed to jfk before too long
16:28<supermop>can't decide if i want to use taxi or subway
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16:40<Superuser>http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20121204/uptown/couple-says-trigger-happy-cop-popped-their-pup-then-wrote-traffic-ticket
16:40<Superuser>AMERICA FUCK YEAH
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16:45<Rubidium>pff... that's probably just self defence (under US law)
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16:53<kjetil_>MURICA!
17:02<Wolf01>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBX-OUp_ZF0 oh god why...
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17:13<Rubidium>Wolf01: to forget the recent remake crap of such stuff?
17:14<Psyk>oh... transformed thomas is even more annoying than normal thomas
17:16<Wolf01>to be honest I was viewing some scenes of the 1986 Transformers series when that... thing... appeared on the related
17:19<Psyk>i have never seen any transformers stuff, is it worth watching?
17:30<Wolf01>when I was a child they were over the top, they seem so silly now...
17:37<Psyk>it looks funny
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18:21<Wolf01>'night all
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18:29<JamesGo>Has anyone tried running OpenTTD on RISC OS? I built 1.2.3 and the latest CargoDist using the RiscPkg AutoBuilder, they both run well apart from the long startup time
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19:23<peroxide>hello?
19:24<peroxide>Hello?
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19:25<NGC3982>Evering.
19:25<NGC3982>Evening*
19:31<Flygon>Harrow
19:34<NGC3982>Flygon: o/
19:34<Flygon>:D
19:35<Flygon>Also, local authorities are jerks
19:35<Flygon>Yay for huge rail networks
19:35<Flygon>Shame about the stations
19:36<NGC3982>I'm not following.
19:44<Flygon>NGC3982: They get very upset about me building train tracks over their pretty trees. I can't build stations afterwards
19:44<Flygon>And the trams won't increase ratings enough for over a year
19:45<NGC3982>Then replant them trees, mate.
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19:49<Flygon>NGC3982: Can't plant trees inside train tracks, mate. x.x
19:49<Flygon>But, yes, I do plant trees
19:49<Flygon>But, then comes the towns where I need to geoengineer x.x
19:50<NGC3982>That is not really taken in consideration
19:50<NGC3982>Just plant them somewhere near the town
19:50<NGC3982>And lot's of it
19:50<NGC3982>I recon it can take up to thirty clicks, but they will eventually budge. :p
19:55<Flygon>I know :p
19:55<Flygon>It's easier, however, just for me to build trams deploy them, then build and wait :B
19:56<Flygon>Rapid expansion, whew
19:56<NGC3982>Sure.
19:56<NGC3982>:)
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20:09<Flygon>Though
20:09<Flygon>Some authorities are just jerks @_@
20:16<V453000>teach them the magic dozer language
20:17<Flygon>Ehhhh
20:17<Flygon>Don't want that on my record D:
20:19<V453000>you dont need to destroy the town, but killing trees and terraforming with dozer enabled doesnt hinder authorities
20:22<Flygon>Huh
20:23<Flygon>I didn't know that o.o
20:23<V453000>now you do
20:24<Flygon>Still...
20:24<Flygon>Seems kinda evil
20:24<Flygon>I'll just smother the local authority with trams :D
20:25<Flygon>They don't wanna approve me? Fine. Not my fault they gotta put up with tram congestion :D
20:26<V453000>just useful, not evil :)
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20:27<Flygon>Aw :p
20:27<Flygon>But things feel better when they're evil!
20:30<V453000>well then do it the evil way; it is yours to choose with the dozer after all
20:30<Flygon>Mwahahaha
20:31<V453000>also gnight
20:31<Flygon>Sleep well!
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 09 00:00:00 2012