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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-12

---Logopened Wed Dec 12 00:00:04 2012
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03:51<@peter1138>oh poor pintsize
03:57<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: as long as they don't get amd-ish and phase out systems built 2 years ago...
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04:08<krinn>hi, i have a stuck airport with opengfx 0.3, where i can bugreport it ?
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05:00<Ammler>opengfx 0.3 is outdated...
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08:22*drac_boy thinks perk need to stop perking everything
08:23-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
08:24<Flygon>You know what needs a perk?
08:24<Flygon>Poor thing get nerfed to hell and back
08:24*drac_boy whacks flygon with an aussie coal shovel
08:25<drac_boy>heh heh :p
08:25<drac_boy>guess I can't stop doing that... how're you anyway?
08:25<Flygon>We used mechanical stokers @_@
08:26<drac_boy>I don't think all of them always did tho
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08:32<drac_boy>btw flygon here's another one that I only found out about recently...
08:34<drac_boy>the infamous short lived T1 locomotive from PRR? one was actually sent to N&W for a bit of road test but they prefer to buy more of their own J1 (which were conventional fast 4-8-4's) .. and the funny thing tho was that even PRR had to borrow one J1 for their own testing too
08:34<drac_boy>talk about testing each others' newest design but not wanting to flip :)
08:35<Flygon>Perhaps they had found better economies of scale with their own locos?
08:37<drac_boy>maybe but still a T1 is an experinmental duplex drive locomotive with yet more other little-tested things including poppy valves etc .. while the J1 was just as conventional as anything could be
08:37<drac_boy>so go figure with that
08:39<drac_boy>flygon btw that reminds me of a slight humorful railfan story from the 1950s....
08:41<drac_boy>two people were trackside (on a long slight uphill) to take some photos then soon they saw a local 0-8-0 that was running with a bit of worried authority ... the two wondered why such a lowly train could be trying to move fast till they checked their timetable...
08:42<drac_boy>turned out there had been a miscalculation....there was an express right behind them....can you say ops to the dispatcher? :)
08:43<drac_boy>anyway turned out the express was a J1 that was already slowing down at the last orange signal ... but the local freight had started heading downhill by then so the red signal cleared early and the two men were quite in for a shock when the J1 started going from 10mph to over 50mph before the tail had cleared the signal
08:44<drac_boy>talk about a fine locomotive that could reaccerlate a heavy train uphill without one single slip :)
08:44<drac_boy>(thats what they quoted)
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08:50<drac_boy>anyway flygon anything you want to say about your own trains? :)
08:50<Flygon>Sorry for the delay, irl stff
08:51<Flygon>Nice story :)
08:51<Flygon>No good ones here, sorry
08:52<drac_boy>flygon hmm well theres a WWII dated one I kinda still recall....
08:53<drac_boy>there was a particular local train that made an out and return from yard with varying freights (including tanks too) ... anyway this one .... it was at the other end of route and thats where the story starts ...
08:54<drac_boy>had no problem till they were getting to the grade ... slip a bit .. started slow down .. more slipping ... finally train stalled ... brakeman got out to check sand pipes then the dome ... nothing was coming out .. thought it was a defective air valve ...
08:55<drac_boy>by then the rear conductor had came out and suggested they would have to doublehead.. engineer took a spat at that but eventually agreed .. and they tied up both cuts into the siding on top as the conductor phoned for some assistance
08:56<drac_boy>took a while before one finally showed up .. actually it had been an old 4-6-0 that decided to drop its few freight wagons and take its caboose and come to the rescue ... the original engineer had a bit of laugh saying now there was an engine as old as its engineer! the fireman onboard shot back saying this was better than going to the ymca gym (no stroker yeah)
08:57<drac_boy>finally they decided that the locomotive could lay sand aside to helping as much as it could .. and the train finally made good time coming into the yard as the sand-faulty locomotive cut out to head to the shed
08:58<drac_boy>the small locomotive only had 210psi boiler too ... thats how old it was :->
08:59<drac_boy>then again WWII bought a lot of otherwise-stored locomotives out back into service till 1946 so .. eh
09:05<drac_boy>flygon about your australia gauge problems .. I'm just wondering if they ever regauged locomotives over there or not so much?
09:06<Flygon>They were designed to be regauged
09:06<Flygon>Even the steam loco
09:06<Flygon>All were build with 1435mm in mind, after 1930
09:06<Flygon>Sorry for the delays
09:06<drac_boy>wonder if the broad gauge locomotive looks wide on non-broad tracks :)
09:06<Flygon>Sorting monetary deal
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09:17<cibuk>Při hraní open ttd mi dopravní prostředky (vlaky i auta) vozí do stanic u továren potřebné zboží,ale továrny nic neprodukují. Poraďte někdo proč. Díky čibuk
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09:19<Flygon>drac_boy: Boilers here rarely broke the 160psi mark
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09:19<Flygon>Heavy Harry and NSWGR's high performance locomotives would be the rare exceptions
09:20<drac_boy>Heavy Harry? why does that makes me thinking its a freight drag locomotive?
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09:21<Flygon>It is
09:21<Flygon>It was DESIGNED for an intercapital express (basically, 115-130kmph for 800-900 kilometers)
09:21<Flygon>But WWII happened
09:21<drac_boy>heh :)
09:21<Flygon>So it became a heavy freight haulage locomotive, because only ONE line supported it's weight
09:21<Flygon>Hence, the name, Heavy Harry
09:22<drac_boy>I see
09:22<Flygon>WWII made it so that only H-class happened
09:22<Flygon>It did also make some Spirit of Progress services, but it was avoided, because it wasn't a streamliner
09:22<Flygon>And some enthusiastic drivers would also break the timetable :p
09:22<Flygon>(well, more than they would with the S-class...)
09:23<drac_boy>heh whats wrong with breaking timetables? :P
09:23<Flygon>The line wasn't certified for such insane speeds
09:24<Flygon>115km/h was the typical max (with quite a few 80km/h segments)
09:24<Flygon>Enthusiastic drivers in an S-class, when the paper recorder ran out, reached 138km/h
09:24<Flygon>And, unofficially, around 14xkm/h range
09:24<Flygon>Imagine what the H-class would do :p
09:25<Flygon>I know that sounds slow, but keep in mind, this's Australia
09:25<Flygon>Fastest steam loco, incidentally, was one of the NSWGR ones that ran the Newcastle Flyer... can't remember the class designation
09:25<Flygon>They used a different one to Victoria
09:25<Flygon>But it regulary broke 160km/h... and actually LOOKED like a bullet
09:26<Flygon>Steam Bullet Locomotive :D
09:26<drac_boy>flygon btw you're not the only one .. there were some 2-10-4's in new england that had small tires which did not give to much counterweight so they did a lot of damage to the track at over 35mph ... some engineers still drove them a bit fast anyway
09:26<Flygon>Apperantly it's Australia's most recognizable locomotive. I didn't hear about it until a year ago. :p
09:27<Flygon>Lemme guess
09:27<Flygon>Engineers ran out of paper too? :P
09:27<drac_boy>nothing like being trackside in the middle of winter when everything is frozen .. then you see one of these massive locomotive doing well more than 35mph with a heavy train :)
09:27<drac_boy>try imagine that during the summer months!
09:28<Flygon>Here, summer means over 47c on a good day
09:28<Flygon>We end up with universal 80km/h speed restrictions @_@
09:28<Flygon>I hope, when they build the bullet train line, they use damn heavy steel... to prevent this issue >_>
09:28<Flygon>But yeah, I imagine, in summer, rails would bend :p
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09:34<drac_boy>flygon when did australia start with superheaters anyway?
09:35<Flygon>I am actually not sure... sorry
09:35<Flygon>Wikipedia is a good bet. Peeps have chronicled the history of locomotives well, there
09:35<Flygon>Pre-1920 is sketchy, though
09:37<drac_boy>well canada started with some quirky water reheaters on west coast which didn't fare so well .. then wasn't too long later before they gradually started using europe-alike superheaters all across canada
09:37<Flygon>Makes sense
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09:38<drac_boy>flygon then again canada has some interesting histories itself...
09:39<drac_boy>guess what came with the reheaters? 0-6-6-0 mallets meant for more or less banking duties through the BC mountains .. they had a short life alas as usual
09:40<drac_boy>then again there were many emd F units in canada .. but only two lone E in the entire history .. they were for the montreal-newyork route interestingly enough
09:40<drac_boy>and thats not even going into the differences between CN and CP (why is it that one road choose dual duty locomotives while other goes with seperate mix of freight and passenger duty ones?)
09:41<drac_boy>but anyway I don't think you want to bother hearing all the details I know of ;)
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09:43<Flygon>It seems confusing anyway :p
09:43<tycoondemon>maker of planets
09:47<drac_boy>np flygon
09:55<drac_boy>well flygon have fun with whatever you're currently working at .. I'm going off for now ok?
09:55<Flygon>I'm about to sleep
09:56<drac_boy>bye then flygon
09:56<Flygon>See ya :)
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11:25<alandarev>heya, I got short question. Can I run AI in multiplayer? (WAant to hang out with a friend against computers in LAN)
11:27<V453000>alandarev: yes, there is even a setting for it
11:27<V453000>allow AI in multiplayer or something like that
11:27<V453000>under competitors in adv. settings
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11:40<alandarev>V453000: excellent, thank you!
11:40<V453000>you are welcome ... I think using AIs is a bit pointless though ;)
11:40<alandarev>V453000: why? :( And could you advice an AI for beginners? (we are beginners :D )
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11:40<Bad_Brett>hello friends
11:41<alandarev>we want some extra competition for more fun
11:41<V453000>play with people :)
11:41<V453000>openttd cant be competed in
11:42<Pinkbeast>My advice would be to pick one of the railway-only ones. AIs that use RVs seem to love to swamp the world with them.
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11:43<V453000>well that is the whole point of AI to me, flood the map with -stuff- for no reason
11:44<Bad_Brett>i just got an idea for a GS
11:45<Bad_Brett>what if you you could offer the industries a better deal than your competitors?
11:45-!-hannes123 [~b02e3df4@2600:3c00::2:2424] has quit []
11:46<Bad_Brett>so that they only have to pay have as much
11:46<Bad_Brett>or something like that
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11:47<alandarev>V453000: I see, so your suggestion is to not use AI's, I need to think over it. yet can anyone suggest 'best' in their opinion AI for multiplayer of casual friends?
11:48<V453000>you will probably come to a similar conclusion sooner or later after you discover that they are worthless ;)
11:48<V453000>also it is fun to talk to others, there are some nice servers around
11:48<alandarev>it indeed is
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11:49<alandarev>another issue. We are relatively new to OpenTTD but love custom content. any ranking/popularity/downloads list of modifications? So we can choose few among most popular rather than needing to do case study of hundreds
11:50<V453000>you just have to try really
11:50<V453000>playing on servers with newGRFs gets you to know them, too
11:50<V453000>or even see what is used
11:50<alandarev>before going onto the servers we want to learn playing :D
11:51<V453000>learning online is usually quicker, if you want to learn any of the #openttdcoop servers are great
11:51<Pinkbeast>I usually use andythenorth's FIRS industry set (and his HEQS road vehicles and CHIPS industry stations)
11:51<alandarev>excellent, thanks for the info V453000, Pinkbeast
11:51<Pinkbeast>The EGRVTS road vehicle set. Pikka's av8 and UKRS2 aircraft and railway sets.
11:52<Pinkbeast>(And the 2cc railway set just to fill in a few gaps in UKRS2)
11:52<alandarev>found a site which has statistics on downloads:
11:52<V453000>the Welcome server on OpenTTD 1.2.3 is generally for absolutely anyone, people who cant build signals come there and they can build very well after just a short time
11:52<Pinkbeast>Nutracks, which UKRS2 really wants these days
11:52<tycoondemon>FIRS is the best
11:52<Pinkbeast>Oh, and andy's ship set whose name I forget (and "Sailing Ships" if I plan to start in 1825 or so)
11:53<V453000>how could you forget FISH
11:53<Pinkbeast>Also some other station sets just to fill out a bit of eye candy
11:54<Pinkbeast>Oh, and the generic tram set
11:54<Pinkbeast>Of these, I think UKRS2 (+ addons) is the least generally useful. It's a nice set, but you have to specifically want to play in the history of UK railways.
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11:58<alandarev>eGRVTS is road and tram?
12:00<Pinkbeast>Yes, but I like the generic tram set more. I mostly use eGRVTS's horse-drawn wagonway trams (which need you to turn off realistic RV acceleration, but you can turn it back on once they're gone)
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12:00<alandarev>there is eGRVTS2 avaialble as well, is it very different?
12:01<Pinkbeast>I'm not actually sure which eGRVTS I use, I'm afraid, so I could be recommending either. :-/
12:02<V453000>both are nice
12:02<V453000>try for yourself :)
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12:07<alandarev>does eGRVTS support FIRS cargo types? or I need to install something more
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12:11<Pinkbeast>Everything I've mentioned plays nice with FIRS
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12:18<Eddi|zuHause>"Ihr Postfach hat die Lagerung Grenze, die 20GB ist überschritten wie von Ihrem Administrator festgelegt, sind Sie derzeit auf 20.9GB, können Sie nicht in der Lage zu senden oder zu empfangen neue E-Mail bis Sie erneut validieren Ihre Mailbox. Erneut bestätigen Sie Ihre Mailbox klicken Sie auf den Link unten. [...]" what are the chances of this being spam?
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12:19<alandarev>Do I need to do anyhing extra in settings to allow few trainsets work without conflicts?
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>depends on the trainsets
12:21<Pinkbeast>It's always worth checking the parameters for any newGRF that has them
12:24<FLHerne>alandarev: There are a few issues with eGRVTS 1 and FIRS
12:24<FLHerne>No alcohol vehicles, for example
12:24<FLHerne>eGRVTS 2 works fine
12:25<FLHerne>It also looks nicer, although I'm not a great fan of either :P
12:26*FLHerne uses HEQS, BATS and Bob's British Buses/Road vehicles
12:28<alandarev>good i installed 2nd egrvts2
12:30<Pinkbeast>Remind me what BATS is?
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12:31<FLHerne>Bob & Ameecher's Tram Set
12:31<FLHerne>UK-style trams from 1900ish to the present
12:31<FLHerne>Looks good with Bob's other sets and UKRS2
12:32<Pinkbeast>Ah, yes, I've used that in the past.
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24818 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-12-12 18:45:24 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 2 changes by arnau
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 16 changes by telk5093
13:45<@DorpsGek>malay - 113 changes by richz
13:45<NGC3982>My german track got english.
13:46<NGC3982>I'm actually thinking of making an Openttd version of that.
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13:55<andythenorth>what's for Christmas?
14:14<bb10X>spit-roasted reindeer
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14:23<Wolf01>hello :D
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14:28<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:29<@Alberth>hi andy
14:30<@Alberth>I thought a new firs?
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14:42<andythenorth>for christmas?
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14:53<@Alberth>unless you have a few miracles left, freerct is not in a playable state this year :p
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14:56<Rubidium>not enough time in this year?
15:00<andythenorth>not before 21/12/12
15:02<frosch123>21/12/2112 would look more plausible
15:06<@Alberth>I hope to have finished by then :)
15:06<andythenorth>FIRS might be done by then
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15:23<andythenorth>lo Terkhen
15:27<@Alberth>hi hi
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15:50*andythenorth -> bed
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15:51<bassals>I need some help
15:51<bassals>I was sending andythenorth a Catalan translation for FIRS
15:52<bassals>but I'm not sure it's a correct file
15:52<bassals>should it use UTF-8 instead?
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15:53<frosch123>everything in ottd is utf-8
15:54<bassals>I guess... because in the accented characters are not okay
15:54<frosch123>that file seems to be transcoded from utf-8 to non utf-8 and back multiple times
15:54<frosch123>it's totally broken :p
15:55<bassals>yes because he was trying to fix the CR+LF end of lines I think
15:58<frosch123>well, i guess send him the file again as utf-8
15:58<frosch123>resp. open an issue at the devzone
15:59<Rubidium>where did andy get that file from?
15:59<Rubidium>from the forum or from the tracker?
16:00<bassals>he told me to upload it to the forum
16:00<Rubidium>ah, you send it as ISO-8859 it seems
16:01<bassals>yes but unix eol I think
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16:02<Rubidium>end-of-line does not matter for NML (I hope)
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16:03<Rubidium>and andy's OS uses unix eol as well
16:03<Rubidium>the conversion from ISO-8859 to UTF-8 was just messed up
16:04<bassals>but well, he just left and
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>so... who else has commit rights? Yexo?
16:04<bassals>yes, I am asking here to see if there is anybody able to reupload it (^_^;)
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16:05*Alberth raises hand
16:06<bassals>then I guess I can reupload a utf8 version in the forums and hope that everything works
16:06<@Alberth>that should work :)
16:07<bassals>Alberth: and then, is there any preference for the eol character?
16:08<+glx>LF if possible I'd say
16:08<@Alberth>unix EOL please
16:08<Rubidium>glx: you're funny ;)
16:09<Rubidium>hmm... /me is stupid (or not awake)
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it's way too early :)
16:11<frosch123>how long is it ago that mac used CR ? :p
16:11<+glx>pre OSX I think
16:11<@Alberth>infinitely ?
16:11<Rubidium>until and including Mac OS 9
16:15<@Alberth>bassals: this one ok ?
16:17<bassals>it is
16:17<bassals>if opened with utf8
16:18<@Alberth>I don't use anything else :)
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16:20<bassals>I use diferent OS and I'm always with these kind of problems
16:22<@Alberth>simplest solution is to pick something very standard such as utf-8, set up the machine correctly, and use the same setup everywhere
16:22<@Terkhen>configure your text editor to use always utf-8 and the same EOL format
16:22<@Alberth>I pushed the change btw
16:23<@Terkhen>are we looking for FIRS translation updates? andy failed to notify me as he sometimes does :P
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16:24<@Alberth>only 37 outdated strings :)
16:25<@Terkhen>hmm... I'll make a note to look into updatind the spanish translation this weekend
16:25<frosch123>en_au has 2 translated strings? :o
16:25<@Terkhen>lately I never have time :/
16:25<frosch123>or does it only contain differences from en_uk?
16:26<@Alberth>really 2 strings :)
16:26<@Terkhen>oooh, that translation report is nice :P
16:26<@Alberth>wanna buy it? ;)
16:27<@Terkhen>urgh, he changed lumber to timber again?
16:27<@Terkhen>no thanks, contemplating it is enough :P
16:27<@Alberth>yep, and I did not change the Dutch translation for another kind of wood :)
16:28<@Terkhen>I did not change it when he changed timber to lumber, and I won't change it this time either
16:28<frosch123>he, the number of "outdated" translations is quite high
16:28<@Terkhen>english has a lot of fancy words for wood
16:28<frosch123>andy changes a lot :p
16:28<@Terkhen>spanish... not that much
16:28<@Alberth>Terkhen: too many words imho :p
16:29<@Alberth>You'd expect the Swedish to have many words :)
16:29<@Terkhen>Alberth: I agree, too many words is what makes andy doubt of what word to use :P
16:29<@Terkhen>I remember reading the discussion about "timber or lumber" and not getting it at all
16:29<@Terkhen>wood is wood
16:29<@Alberth>Too bad you cannot express 'this translation is upto date' in the nml file :(
16:30<@Terkhen>IIRC they have slightly different meaning and/or connotations, but meh
16:30<@Alberth>yeah, I looked both up in the dictionary and didn't understand the difference as well
16:30<@Terkhen>Alberth: I used to add comments to the line such as "#Remove_me_later"
16:30<@Terkhen>but I don't know if such an ugly hack would work after the move from pnfo to nml
16:30<@Terkhen>IIRC it does not :P
16:31<frosch123>wiki says "lumber (also called timber)" :p
16:31<@Alberth>Terkhen: could be, iirc, nml looks for # at the start of the line only
16:32<@Terkhen>oh, I think that lately I just moved the strings around a bit until hg diff shown them as "changed"
16:32<@Terkhen>yet another ugly hack
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, and then it goes on with something along the lines of "may mean totally different things depending on where you are"
16:33<@Terkhen>but checking strings that are "missing" from your translation to find that you already reviewed them is tiresome
16:33<@Alberth>I tried to get off the ground with a translation service, but got stuck at getting a REST server with authentication working :(
16:33<@Terkhen>oh, true, IIRC andy was concerned about making an "en_uk" free from "en_us" and "en_au" terms
16:34<@Terkhen>maybe lumber/timber is one of those
16:34<@Alberth>quite likely
16:34<@Terkhen>color colour, truck lorry
16:34<@Terkhen>all the same to me
16:34<@Terkhen>but not for them :P
16:34<@Alberth>we won't see much difference :)
16:35<@Terkhen>IIRC someone complained about americanized terms in the default translation of FIRS, saying that they belonged to en_us :P
16:36<bassals>I'm sorry to go back to my issue, but
16:36<bassals>even though looks perfect right now,
16:36<bassals>the diff has some weird stuff
16:36<@Terkhen>I can relate, though... es_es and es_mx are not the same thing at all
16:36<bassals>should I be worried?
16:36<FLHerne>Terkhen: And right they are (probably)
16:37<FLHerne>en_uk and en_us are considerably different :P
16:38<@Alberth>bassals: diffs often get things incorrect, the main thing that counts is whether the current file is correct, imho
16:38<@Terkhen>bassals: all those ? characters look wrong... but they don't appear at
16:38<@Terkhen>the current file looks fine, so I wouldn't worry much :)
16:39<bassals>fine, thanks a lot
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16:41<@Alberth>bassals: quite likely having a diff with bits of files with different encoding is also not helping; all that pseudo-smart encoding recognition software goes haywire :p
16:41<@Alberth>anyways, time for bed, good night
16:42<bassals>good night
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17:11<Wolf01>'night all
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17:29<@Terkhen>good night
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18:43<V453000>I think I got fed up with the christmas theme for forums in record time this year
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>that takes about 2 seconds for me...
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19:41<Bad_Brett>hi drac_boy
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19:46<drac_boy>how doing Bad_Brett?
19:46<drac_boy>being bad as usual? heh
19:47<Bad_Brett>nah, i'm fine thanks for asking
19:47<Bad_Brett>what are you up to?
19:48<Bad_Brett>i'm working on the BIG christmas update :)
19:48<drac_boy>not much, just pondering some particular issues with the tracking table yet here
19:51<Bad_Brett>sounds fun :)
19:53<drac_boy>heh I don't know tbh :)
19:56<Bad_Brett>well i wasn't entirely serious ;)
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19:57<Bad_Brett>"pondering some particular issues" is seldom fun
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20:05<drac_boy>heh :)
20:06<drac_boy>at least I have enough other things on the table to work on rather than just sitting at these certain few :)
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20:16<drac_boy>Bad_Brett curious question for you tho - do you think animal and crop should be seperate raw industry or combining them doesn't really matter much to you? (the original farm combined them anyway)
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20:26<V453000>I personally like the combining, because when you plan your traffic, you can easily expect 2 cargoes to have similar traffic - livestock and grain
20:26<V453000>so if you drop them elsewhere you have the traffic nicely spread over the map already
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20:28<Bad_Brett>i'm personally gonna seperate them...
20:28<Bad_Brett>divide them into grain farms and ranches
20:29<Bad_Brett>but i guess it depends
20:36<V453000>gameplay-wise that is boring as it makes industries behave all the same, but .. :)
20:38<Bad_Brett>well not in my mod. things are gonna be messed up :)
20:39<Bad_Brett>i'll probably come with a 100 page manual
20:56<drac_boy>yeah I can see how some want it that way and others the other way now
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21:00<Pinkbeast>In practice with OTTD as it stands the easiest way to handle an industry with 2 outputs is darn nearly building 2 stations.
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21:09<Bad_Brett>btw is anyone watching the sandy relief concert?
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23:58<DDR>Never heard of it.
---Logclosed Thu Dec 13 00:00:06 2012