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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-21

---Logopened Fri Dec 21 00:00:19 2012
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02:46<Supercheese>Oh, nice to see current_max_speed was recently updated to account for bridge speed limits
02:47<Supercheese>must've missed that commit notice
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03:18<Pikka>it's an andythenorth, amongst others
03:18<andythenorth>:o
03:18<andythenorth>a Pikka
03:18<andythenorth>must be christmas
03:18<andythenorth>or the end of the world
03:18<andythenorth>all souls reunited
03:19<Pikka>or all three
03:19<andythenorth>that too
03:19<Supercheese>The eschaton is upon us
03:19<andythenorth>you have been....away?
03:19<Pikka>not terribly
03:19<Pikka>I just frightened myself rather badly
03:19<andythenorth>o_O
03:19<Pikka>got a bit punchy with autoreplace and had to go through my entire grf
03:20<Pikka>and work out which 16s were supposed to be 16s and which were supposed to be 0as :)
03:20<andythenorth>oh :)
03:20<Pikka>hopefully I fixed them all
03:20<andythenorth>I hope so too
03:20<andythenorth>my truck set is still....stuck :P
03:20<Pikka>well
03:21<Pikka>that would be the lack of roadtypes :)
03:21<andythenorth>oh tath
03:21<andythenorth>that *
03:21<andythenorth>how is upside down land?
03:21<andythenorth>which bit are you in?
03:21<Pikka>bit warm
03:21<Pikka>the warm bit
03:21<andythenorth>QLD?
03:21<Pikka>yes
03:21<andythenorth>yeah, I have "business interests" in Brisbane now
03:21<andythenorth>so I get weather reports
03:22<Pikka>what's her name?
03:22<andythenorth>he
03:22<andythenorth>no
03:22<andythenorth>actual people doing actual work
03:22<Pikka>how unusual
03:22<andythenorth>apparently it is toasty in Brisbane
03:22<Pikka>more steamy than toasty
03:23<Pikka>you have to go inland for toasty
03:23<andythenorth>meanwhile....we invented this thing called GameScripts
03:23<andythenorth>and then this thing called 'Cargo Goal Challenges'
03:23<andythenorth>give or take the capital letters
03:23<andythenorth>they're pretty fun
03:23<Pikka>hmm :)
03:24<andythenorth>totally destroys any attempt to make well-balanced grfs covering 200 years of gameplay :P
03:24<Pikka>hmm :)
03:24<andythenorth>but definitely fun
03:24<Pikka>does it though
03:24<andythenorth>we play for about 2 hours on multiplayer
03:25<Pikka>:)
03:25<andythenorth>in other news, DanMacK reappeared
03:25<andythenorth>and drew a crapload of stuff for me
03:25<Pikka>hooray
03:25<Pikka>trucks?
03:25<andythenorth>ships, industries
03:25<andythenorth>can't keep up :P
03:25<Pikka>industries eh
03:25<andythenorth>you might want to pillage some for TAI
03:25<Pikka>I might...
03:26<Pikka>although it's more the coding that's holding up TaI, I don't plan adding too many more industries
03:26<Pikka>the main thing is altering production for the 19th century
03:26<andythenorth>yeah, that
03:26<andythenorth>let me know if you solve it :P
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03:34<andythenorth>right, time to work
03:34<andythenorth>bonjour pikka, see you next time
03:34<Pikka>have fun
03:34<andythenorth>yes
03:34<andythenorth>bye
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03:44<Eddi|zuHause>time for my daily dose of mineral oils
03:54<__ln___>http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/maya?p0=101
04:08<@peter1138>oh you
04:08-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-66-86.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
04:08<@peter1138>why helsinki time? heh
04:09<@peter1138>oh cos that's what you set
04:09<@peter1138>crazy fins
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04:20<Pikka>everyone knows that mayans come from finland
04:22<Eddi|zuHause>i thought the north pole...
04:22<@peter1138>did you win?
04:24<Supercheese>[2012-12-21 00:00:00] Earth (~PlanetEarth@solarsystem.universe.net) has disconnected.
04:24<Supercheese>:P
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04:30<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe it meant north poland...?
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04:39<Pikka>eurostars used to come from the north pole
04:39<Pikka>but now they don't
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04:59<Supercheese>G'night folks
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05:04<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I think it's time that you explain how action14 compatibility works in detail ;-)
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05:08<Eddi|zuHause>why am i the go-to guy when people really want to say "your coding skills suck" :p
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05:09<@planetmaker>:D
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05:17<murr4y>Eddi|zuHause: who do you think the go-to guy should be? :p
05:27<@Alberth>someone, of course!
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06:04<__ln___>7 minutes!
06:04<@peter1138>doooooooooooooooom
06:06<Pikka>it just started bucketing down rain here
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>rain... in australia?
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>the world is sure gonna end now!
06:10<__ln___>1 minute!
06:11<__ln___>There's a bug. Can we return it and get a full refund?
06:18<@peter1138>no your warranty's over
06:28<@Terkhen>hello :)
06:42<Pikka>boo
06:42<Pikka>why can't escape sequences be used for negative numbers? :)
06:42<@peter1138>eek
06:43<@peter1138>they don't exist
06:43<Pikka>pretend negative numbers!
06:43<Pikka>why can't I escape FE as \b-2? :)
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>you can use NML :)
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06:44<Pikka>NML is for people
06:51<@Alberth>and escape sequences are not for people? :)
06:52<Flygon>Eddi: Come to Melbourne
06:52<Flygon>Rains like bombs over the Middle East constantly
06:52<Flygon>One of three things we're known for
06:53<Flygon>The other two being Trams and being founded by a name with the surname 'Batman'
06:53<Pikka>also for supposedly being the best place to make a movie about the end of the world
06:54<Pikka>although apparently she didn't actually say that
06:55<Flygon>Pikka: Which one?
06:55<Flygon>I just remember it being the stupidest place to film Ghost Rider
06:56<Pikka>ava gardner, on the beach
07:01<Flygon>Ava Gardner?
07:01<Flygon>Never heard of it
07:01<Flygon>Sorry
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07:25<@Alberth>planetmaker: don't you need a decompressor to inflate wagons?
07:28<@planetmaker>nah. I just pull the plug
07:28<@planetmaker>like... pffffftt.... ;-)
07:38<@Alberth>:)
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07:55<Flygon>Alberth: All you need is your own mouth! Give it a blow job!
07:55<Flygon>...wait, that came out wrong :B
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>i get the impression that it came out just the same way you intended it...
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>... so i guess getting the calendar version with the 3 extra doors was the right call :)
08:16<Flygon>3 extra doors?
08:17<Flygon>They make trains with calenders in them?
08:17<Flygon>...because that would actually be really convenient
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>you know, there's this german tradition in the christmas time to have a calendar with 24 doors, usually with a small piece of chocolate behind it
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>and allegedly they sold some versions with only 21 doors this year, because, you know...
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>(german christmas starts on the 24th, christmas eve)
08:19<Flygon>Ooooooooooooh
08:20<Flygon>Those things
08:20<Flygon>It's somewhat of a tradition here, too
08:20<Flygon>But I'd rather just buy good Chocolate :P
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but a 100g bar of chocolate is gone in a minute
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>this 75g of chocolate is lasting you 24 days :)
08:21<@peter1138>german tradition? heh
08:21<@peter1138>typical advent calendar...
08:22<Flygon>Then I'll buy a 500g bag of Maltesers
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i think it was invented by a german
08:22<__ln___>jesus wasn't a german
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>jesus neither invented christmas, nor the christmas calendar :)
08:23<Flygon>Neither was Jesus European
08:23<Flygon>But nearly every post-1250 painting of him depicts him as otherwise :p
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: and St. Nicolaus didn't wear a red robe either...
08:24<Flygon>Indeed
08:25<@peter1138>christmas is about spending stupid money on stupid gifts so that retailers make a profit
08:25<@peter1138>no need to bring religion into it
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08:28<Rubidium>oh... war on christmas?!? ;)
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08:29<Flygon>peter: Depends
08:29<Flygon>I got 4 gifts
08:29<Flygon>As in, brought
08:29<Flygon>45 Star Trek VHS tapes, 4GB of RAM, and 2 shirts
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>VHS!!!
08:30-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.132.110.199] has joined #openttd
08:30<@peter1138>not bought?
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>welcome to the 80s!
08:30<Flygon>This sent me broke, despite having the RAM as a leftover from an upgrade, the two shirts costing $8, and the VHS tapes being bargined down from $45 to $38 at the Salvation Army Op Shop :p
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>(actually we didn't have any VHS in the 80s)
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08:31<Flygon>$200 a fortnight, $100 of that going to board :D
08:31<@peter1138>but yeah... vhs? wtf?
08:31<Flygon>VHS boxes look really cool
08:31<Flygon>And they didn't have Voyager DVD's
08:31<@peter1138>s/cool/big/
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08:33<Flygon>peter: Let's put it this way
08:33<Flygon>What looks more impressive?
08:33<Flygon>Big boxes of VHS tapes
08:33<Flygon>Or barely visible DVD cases? :P
08:33<@peter1138>AVI files on a HDD
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>... or put everything on a single HDD, and have space leftover?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>avis are so '00s :)
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's usually mp4s or mkvs nowadays :)
08:37<Prof_Frink>Yeah, if you leave them as FLVs it's too obvious you just ripped them from Youtube.
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>you can get mp4's from youtube, you know...
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>just pass -f18 to youtube-dl
08:41<Prof_Frink>That's a whole 4 extra keystrokes.
08:42<Flygon>mkv > mp4
08:42<Flygon>imho
08:42<@peter1138>last time i was downloading videos divx/xvid was all the rage
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: they invented aliases for that... :p
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09:16<FLHerne>I change 1 line of english.txt, and make decides to rebuild *everything*? :-(
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>yes
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>practically every file "depends" on english.txt, there is no more finegrained measure
09:17*FLHerne wishes it was a bit more intelligent :P
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09:18<FLHerne>Now I have to wait 25mins while it compiles it all :P
09:19<@Alberth>install a compiler cache :)
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>use -j6 :)
09:20<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Not enough cores/threads :P
09:21<FLHerne>compiler cache looks interesting
09:41<Pikka>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=166593
09:42<FLHerne>Pikka: Yay!
09:42<Pikka>you know how I said the bug with 4C didn't crash UKRS2? turns out it does. :) So I'm waiting on the next nightly to check it's absolutely fixed before I release anything.
09:43<FLHerne>That Banker will be perfect for my idiotic mountain :-)
09:43<FLHerne>Oh, and a Garratt? :O
09:43<Pikka>it's not /that/ good :P only 200kN or so
09:43<Pikka>yes, you can thank scuddles for both those locos
09:45<FLHerne>Pikka: I have triple-headed 0-8-0s at the moment :-)
09:45<FLHerne>I suspect at least one of those will be an improvement :P
09:45<Pikka>you'll prbably need at least double headed bankers, then
09:46<FLHerne>That might look cool. How about a Garratt?
09:46<FLHerne>Oh, there's a 442 as well...
09:47*FLHerne was just getting over his TTD-addiction :P
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>you NEVER get over an addiction
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09:56<FLHerne>Pikka: Does this version have FIRS-compatibility?
09:56<Pikka>did previous versions not?
09:57<FLHerne>There were oddities such as Presflos carrying Fish but not Building Supplies :P
09:57<FLHerne>For cement tanks, I found that a little odd :-/
09:58<FLHerne>Actually, it might have been the polybulks that carried fish
09:58<Rubidium>FLHerne: it only recompiles files that include the string names. If you change the text of a string nothing should be recompiled (unless you change the parameters). It has to recompile all those files because the StringID might have changed
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09:59<Rubidium>e.g. the squirrel code is not recompiled
09:59<FLHerne>Rubidium: That makes sense
09:59<Rubidium>... ever for string changes
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10:02<Pikka>FLHerne, there's only so much room in a CTT, so really it comes down to cargo classes.
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10:03<FLHerne>Pikka: Ah. Makes sense that way then. Still a bit confusing in-game :P
10:04<Pikka>perhaps. maybe you should talk to andy about his classes. ;)
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10:05<Pikka>goodnight wallyweb
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10:15<FLHerne>Is 'apply patch to latest version, apply rejected hunks to the most similar bit of code, compile, see what breaks, tweak' a sane way to bump patches? :P
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10:27<@Alberth>depends on what "see what breaks" means. If you only check for compiler errors, your method will fail
10:29<FLHerne>I already found that out. It now encompasses 'does the settings window for that feature work', 'does that feature work ingame', and 'can I save and reload a game'
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10:37<@Belugas>hello
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10:40<@Alberth>hello
10:40<@Belugas>Mister A!
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10:55<Eddi|zuHause>http://i.imgur.com/EmbPP.jpg
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12:43<oskari89>Is here somebody who could do NML-coding and transfering some sprites to DevZone?
12:43<oskari89>And some folders to DevZone, too.
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12:44<oskari89>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/
12:46<oskari89>http://users.tt-forums.net/finnish/table/ftssteam.html There's some sprites there, and on Diesel/DMU, Electric/EMU, Coaches and Wagons category as well.
12:47<oskari89>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository
12:48<oskari89>There should be folder for graphics (and sounds as well)
12:51<oskari89>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/1709/NewGRF_Development_Guide_for_Windows_Users_1.0.0.pdf
12:51<oskari89>That is a little too complicated for me :P
12:55<FLHerne>oskari89: You could just install Linux properly, and skip some of the mess :P
12:57<@Alberth>why do you need a virtual Linux environment?
12:58<oskari89>I don't know :P
12:58<oskari89>Oh, but no problem, i think that i may handle this :)
12:58<@Alberth>true, a Linux environment is much easier to make it work, but imho it is a much bigger gun than needed
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12:59<@Alberth>ie nml and tortoisehg work fine in Windows
12:59<@Alberth>(for as far as anything can work 'fine' at a system not aimed at development :p )
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24835 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2012-12-21 18:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 47 changes by chenwt0315
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13:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r24836 trunk/src/elrail.cpp (2012-12-21 18:51:06 UTC)
13:51<@DorpsGek>-Feature(ette): Improve pylon placement around station tiles that display neither pylons nor catenary.
13:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r24837 trunk/src/elrail.cpp (2012-12-21 18:51:10 UTC)
13:51<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Don't consider blocked rail station tiles that display wires as non-reachable for masking out unnecessary catenary wires.
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14:41<Wolf01>hello
14:42<@Alberth>o/
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14:56<Sacro>
14:57<Wolf01>that's magic :o
14:57<Wolf01>
14:57<Wolf01>mine is shorter
15:00<frosch123>Wolf01: 1mm per commit?
15:01<Wolf01>I don't get it
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16:36<andythenorth>lo
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>hi
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17:14<oskari89>@seen DanMacK
17:14<@DorpsGek>oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 7 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey andy
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17:33<@Terkhen>good night
17:45<Pikka>good night Terkhen
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18:14<drac_boy>hi
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18:44<Wolf01>'night
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19:07<Supercheese>Huzzah, new UKRS live
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19:08<frosch123>night
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19:09<drac_boy>hi Supercheese
19:10<Supercheese>Ave, amice
19:10<FLHerne>Just in time for me to test my patchpack with :D
19:11<Supercheese>Oooh, a Garratt in the addon set
19:11<drac_boy>had any progress with your seagulls Supercheese?
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19:11<drac_boy>garratt? don't tell me its that LMER one that didn't last so long at all?
19:11<FLHerne>Supercheese: I saw that too. It stands out a bit :-)
19:11<FLHerne>LMS kind :-)
19:11<Supercheese>LMS Garratt
19:11<Supercheese>so it says
19:11<drac_boy>oh lms...uk and all their names
19:12<FLHerne>drac_boy: LNER had one, the LMS built 20-odd(?)
19:12<drac_boy>I'll rather prefer an africa garratt of any kind than anything from any other countries tbh
19:12<drac_boy>;)
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19:12<Supercheese>I know exactly what I have to do for the seagulls, I just have to build up enough non-laziness to actually do it :P
19:12<FLHerne>Wouldn't fit the loading (or track) gauge :P
19:12<Supercheese>And now with new UKRS... it seems I'm going to be playing and not working
19:13<drac_boy>FLHerne actually the K1-K4 would
19:13*FLHerne wonders about the stability of such huge things on metre/3ft/whatever gauge
19:13<drac_boy>the K1 was rather a small-boiler 0-4-0+0-4-0 especially
19:13<drac_boy>K4 was just slight bigger with some extra nondrive axles
19:13<FLHerne>Oh, I was thinking those giant things
19:14<drac_boy>but as for the 2-8-4+4-8-2 and others ... they pretty much run well ... at the usual speed which is not much of a running speed anyway :)
19:14<drac_boy>I think like maybe 40-70 but I don't recall what they specified
19:14<drac_boy>freights would be toward the lower end for sure
19:15<drac_boy>supercheese have fun with that :P
19:16<Supercheese>Oh, I need to update and recompile, some fresh new commits fixing pylons and stuff look like good improvements
19:16<drac_boy>:)
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19:33<Supercheese>Still can't believe I used to think compiling OTTD was "too difficult" :S
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's some really rare corner cases :)
19:37<drac_boy>supercheese just download something then run 'make something' ? :P
19:37<drac_boy>heh heh
19:38<Supercheese>Well, it was more like "download a couple pieces of software, install them, checkout the source, double-click the project file, tweak a setting or two and hit compile"
19:38<Supercheese>Which was vastly easier than I had anticipated
19:38<FLHerne>That Garratt pulls well :o
19:39<FLHerne>Just took 1,300 tons of coal up the steepest hill on my network, solo
19:39<Supercheese>weight multiplier of?
19:40<FLHerne>3x, as usual :P
19:40<Supercheese>nice
19:40<Supercheese>(what I use, too :) )
19:40<FLHerne>Should replace my double/triple-headed 0-8-0s quite well
19:42<FLHerne>Now, if I bank it with that 0-10-0 thing...
19:42-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:42*FLHerne is testing a patchpack and UKRS at the same time. Fun :D
19:43*FLHerne doesn't have to worry about hills anymore. At all :D
19:44<Supercheese>Increase steepness setting?
19:44<FLHerne>Two Garratts seem quite capable of dragging my heaviest trains up a continuous gradient :D
19:44<FLHerne>Supercheese: I could, but that would be boring :-(
19:44<FLHerne>Anyway, to sleep...
19:45<Supercheese>No, Boring is 100% Lev3 maglevs hauling everything everywhere :P
19:45*FLHerne hasn't touched the default trainset in singleplayer for years :P
19:45<Supercheese>Same here
19:46<FLHerne>I wish a CDist + FIRS + UKRS2 server existed and was occupied :-(
19:46<FLHerne>Not really much alternative to default trainset on the public servers, it seems
19:46<Supercheese>I think I'd prefer YACD from what I've read, but I've never honestly tried it
19:47*FLHerne did, and hated it :P
19:47<Supercheese>I've never had too much of a beef with default "manual distribution" myself...
19:48<FLHerne>Supercheese: Doesn't work on massively interconnected pax/mail or supplies networks
19:48<drac_boy>just muttering to myself here but why the hell do we have both metre gauge and cape gauge when a 67mm difference really can't be that obvious (just make the axle diecast a few centimeters wider)
19:48<FLHerne>The manual, Imean
19:48<FLHerne>drac_boy: Metric vs imperial, as usual?
19:49<Supercheese>Well even in CDist, passenger trains still go "everybody off, everybody on" rather than some pax staying onboard for the next destination, right?
19:49<drac_boy>FLHerne hmm ... whats imperal about 1067mm to be exact anyway?
19:49<FLHerne>3ft 6inches
19:49<drac_boy>heh hm good pointer
19:50<Supercheese>or 3.5 ft
19:50<drac_boy>well at least anything built for one gauge can be trucked to the other gauge pretty easily ... that is if they were close to each other
19:50<drac_boy>67mm clearance difference on track gauge probably isn't going to matter
19:50<FLHerne>Ah well, I really ought to sleep :P
19:51<drac_boy>ok bye FLHerne? :)
19:51<Supercheese>Vale, dormiture
19:51<FLHerne>In the UK, Ireland spontaneously decided to use 5ft3in, the mainland stuck with 4ft8.5 - still no idea why...
19:51<FLHerne>'night
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20:00<Supercheese>Weird, my FIRS fishing ground sprites are freaking out
20:01<drac_boy>heh
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20:51<Flygon_>Supercheese: They turned into Dolphins?
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21:31<Pikka>since when does ctrl-clicking a vehicle start or stop it? :)
21:32<@planetmaker>for quite some time :-)
21:32<@planetmaker>tbh, I don't know. Might be longer than I'm around. maybe not
21:42<Pikka>how rare
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 22 00:00:21 2012