Back to Home / #openttd / 2012 / 12 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-23

---Logopened Sun Dec 23 00:00:23 2012
00:11-!-Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@186.212.212.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:12<Pikka>innit though
00:28-!-roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6765A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:19-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:20-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
01:29-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:36-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:43-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
02:01-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
02:20-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
02:32-!-andythenorth [~Andy@31.125.175.20] has joined #openttd
02:33<andythenorth>hi
02:35<Supercheese>Aloha
02:36<andythenorth>FISH 2 is a very boring newgrf
02:50-!-andythenorth [~Andy@31.125.175.20] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
02:54-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
03:00-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:00-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
03:09-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
03:11-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
03:11-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:13-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2399
03:13-!-Guest2399 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:13-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
03:22-!-sla_ro|vista [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
03:27-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:36-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
03:39-!-George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
03:39-!-George is now known as Guest2400
03:39-!-George|2 is now known as George
03:43-!-Guest2400 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:57<Supercheese>andythenorth: FISH 2 is a very boring newgrf
03:57<Supercheese>how so?
03:57-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
03:57<Supercheese>You've integrated ship AI, so you just say "move stuff from here to here" and it does it for you? :P
03:59<andythenorth>it's just loads of ships
03:59<andythenorth>type x v1, type x v2, type x v3
03:59<andythenorth>blah
03:59<andythenorth>followed by "here's same ship, but as a tanker"
04:04<andythenorth>blah blah blah
04:06-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
04:09-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-48-61.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
04:12<@peter1138>diddly doo
04:13-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
04:15-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:23<andythenorth>anybody want to update FIRS translations?
04:23<andythenorth>for example, the Australian translation o_O
04:23<andythenorth>:P
04:26<V453000>lol
04:26<V453000>:)
04:28<V453000>andythenorth: is there _any_ possibility of a reason to use both old and new FISH at the same time? Cause some people do and I am very wtf about it
04:29<andythenorth>the only valid reason is lack of sense
04:29<andythenorth>:P
04:30<V453000>expected that :)
04:30<@peter1138>V0.51 (Dec 21th, 2012)
04:30<@peter1138>wow
04:30<@peter1138>not only a new release
04:30<@peter1138>but he fixed the bug i mentioned before i mentioned it
04:32<andythenorth>peter1138: you're playing ottd? :o
04:37-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:38-!-sla_ro|vista [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER]
04:49-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
04:51<Pikka>fish 2 pishtoo
04:52<@peter1138>playing? don't be silly
04:52-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2402
04:52-!-Guest2402 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:52-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
04:53-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2403
04:53-!-Guest2403 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:53-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
04:56-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
04:58-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
04:58<Wolf01>moin
04:59-!-ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)]
05:01-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A5C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:02<@Alberth>moin
05:10-!-ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
05:10*andythenorth gets a gimp
05:11*Zuu wrote some concept/documentation on the story book: http://wiki.openttd.org/Story_book
05:15<andythenorth>Zuu: looks good
05:17<Zuu>I'm thinking about displaying "select page" or "jump to page" on the drop-down at the bottom instead of the current page title. This simplifies the code as afaik, the widget doesn't need to compute the length of all drop down items anymore to figure out the minimum widget width.
05:17<@Alberth>Changing ID of a page makes life complicated imho
05:17<Zuu>I'm thinking about chaning GSStoryPage.RemovePage into GSStoryPage.RemoveAllPages
05:18<Zuu>You can already alter the text of a page afterwards.
05:18<Zuu>Without removing it and shooting yourself in the foot if you leave a hole in the ID sequence.
05:19<@Alberth>yeah, but people will create all empty pages at startup and fill them, to work around the changing ID thingie
05:19<@Alberth>better decouple the ID of a page from its location in the book, imho
05:19<@Alberth>also, can I insert pages in the book?
05:19<Zuu>Do you really need being able to insert a page anywhere other than at the end?
05:20<@Alberth>I have two goals, both multiple pages long
05:21<@Alberth>although it needs some chapter/section structure then, probably
05:21<Zuu>yes, that probably need the ability to have two or more chapters visible at a given time.
05:22<@Alberth>a global goal and a company goal would be likely
05:22<@Alberth>or in the tutorial, a overall goal, and some sub-goals in that
05:22<Zuu>For tutorial chapters I was planing to first display a chatper selection page. Then run that chapter. At the end of chapter append a new chapter selection page. (or remove all pages before adding the new chapter selector page)
05:23<Zuu>I wonder if goals need to be split into overall goals and tasks in the API world or if it is good enough to just mix them.
05:24<@Alberth>I'd leave that to the authors of the scripts
05:24<@Alberth>but imho, being able to cope with more than one goal would be good
05:26<@Alberth>perhaps a wiki-ish approach?
05:26<@Alberth>with arbitrary links to other pages in the text
05:26<Zuu>It sounds like you want a tree structure for the pages that is visible in the GUI.
05:28<Zuu>I was thinking about adding a {GOAL} string code to display a goal symbol and then the Goal text.
05:28<@Alberth>s/want/like/ but yeah, a strictly linear flow feels somewhat limited
05:29<@Alberth>do goal window stays the same?
05:29<@Alberth>s/do/the/
05:29<Zuu>I think that a linear book with only adding pages is good for the reader. Non-linear content is already possible by not creating all pages at start but instead dynamically adding them.
05:29<@Alberth>ok
05:29<Zuu>I haven't made anything to the goal window other than puting the progress text in a column of its own.
05:32<Zuu>Also, in the OpenTTD GUI we have invented the scroll bar (in contrast to medival games), so a page can currently be up to 512 chars or so.
05:33<andythenorth>o/t Alberth you're making a GS?
05:33<Zuu>If that is too limiting, the page could inself hold a list of content. So that you could push multiple sections of up to 512 chars onto a page.
05:34-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
05:34<Zuu>The later might be interesting if you also could push sprite references as content to display a sprite in the page.
05:34<@Alberth>I think most NewGRF readme files are much longer than 512 characters :p
05:34<@Alberth>But a low limit is good, I think, it forces the author to be compact
05:35<@Alberth>andythenorth: no, how did you reach that conclusion? :)
05:35<Zuu>As long as the English text is keept below 350 chars or so to allow for translations to be longer. ;-)
05:35-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
05:35<andythenorth>misread something above :P
05:36<@Alberth>the gimp must be distracting you ;)
05:37<@Alberth>Zuu: when you make a page with a table of contents, you need wiki-ish links to other pages
05:37<andythenorth>overkill :P
05:38<Zuu>You then need a way to allow detecting which word someone have clicked on. Though if anyone implements that, then we can finaly make town names in the chat clickable :-)
05:38<andythenorth>will the story be able to report goal progress / performance?
05:38<@Alberth>Zuu: nice idea, then we only need TAB-completion of town names :)
05:39<Zuu>If a page (can) reference a goal, then I'm thinking about adding a goal/task section at the bottom that list the goals with the text displayed in the goal window.
05:40<@Alberth>Zuu: but from a position clicked at to a row+column in the text is not that complicated
05:41<Zuu>Not more complicated than the rest of the string system :-)
05:41<@Alberth>hmm, yeah, good point
05:43<Zuu>But you need to refactor the drawing routine that decide which location to draw, to allow it to be used both for drawing and checking of input.
05:43<@Alberth>I don't know whether you can query the pixel-size of a letter in a string
05:44<Zuu>The cursor movment need it. But I don't know if it is publicly exposed.
05:45-!-TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot]
05:46<Zuu>All I know that it is easy to screw up with the UTF8 stuff :-)
05:48<@Alberth>that's just to make it sufficiently interesting :p
05:49<andythenorth>patch the routine that actually draws chars to screen, so it draws / stores a bounding box as it renders
05:50<andythenorth>use the bounding box for detecting cliccks
05:50<Zuu>Anyway, my idea for allowing a chapter selection is not links (as they need the target page to exist), but a "select on out of these answers" question. If OpenTTD would have radio buttons, I would use that, but afaik that widget doesn't exist.
05:51<Rubidium>(yet)
05:51<Zuu>Upon clicking on an OK-button, the GS will get an event with the answer and can construct the next page.
05:52<@Alberth>Zuu: radio buttons is just a concept on top of the core GUI widgets, just like the scrollbar and its canvas can now be linked together.
05:52<Zuu>Of course we could have links and a GetPage Event to create a web server-ish solution...
05:53<Zuu>Alberth: I don't claim it would be impossible to add them. However, there might be a design decision why they don't exist.
05:54<@Alberth>Zuu: there is; nobody needed them badly enough to create them
05:55<@Alberth>andythenorth: solution feels too blunt imho, clicking doesn't happen often enough, and response time is not that critical :)
05:55<@Alberth>but it is sort of the direction where you need to go
05:55-!-TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd
05:55<@Alberth>wb TB
05:55<Rubidium>Zuu: the 'back' and 'forward' arrows as well as the checkbox did not exist either
05:56<Flygon>Zuu: Try working with Japanese forms
05:56<Flygon>I get told 128 letters is enough
05:56<Flygon>128 letters is shorter than a Tweet!!!!!!
05:56<Zuu>hehe
05:56<Flygon>And the Japanese seem to have no concept of linebreaks
05:57<@Alberth>Flygon: letters != bytes :p
05:57<Flygon>So I write something... and it comes out as one huge sentence
05:57<Flygon>Alberth: I'm preferring to Pixiv
05:57<Flygon>Also, the titles for images submitted... 32 letters
05:57<Flygon>That's utterly dismal
05:57<Flygon>I know the Japanese like efficiency
05:57<Rubidium>32 Kanji is way more than 32 Latin letters
05:58<Flygon>But I'd rather Swiss efficien
05:58<Flygon>Not Japanese efficient @_@
05:58<Flygon>I know, I've worked with Japanese before
05:58<Flygon>Just... usually in a Jap > Eng context :p
05:59<Rubidium>luckily they don't insist on writing top-to-bottom and then left-to-right, even though they used to do it that way
05:59<Flygon>You mean right-to-left, right?
05:59<Flygon>They still fail to understand linebreaks
06:01<Rubidium>Flygon: hmm... that's even worse ;)
06:01<Flygon>Indeed
06:01<Rubidium>I was happy I could decypher the bus time tables
06:03<Zuu>I hope they were not those scary examples with more exceptions than non-exceptions :-)
06:04<Rubidium>hmm... here comes the anecdote ;)
06:04<Flygon>Rubidium: I struggle with Australian timetables
06:04<Flygon>Especially Melbourne's trams :p
06:04<Flygon>There's comprehensive, and then there's comprehensively incomprehensible
06:05<Rubidium>I planned a route to some company (we were with a big group) and one person lost his 'ticket', so I and that person bought a new ticket while the others already went towards that company
06:05<Rubidium>the route consisted of two trains and then a bus
06:06<Rubidium>once the big group arrived at the bus terminal they could not find the bus and asked people about that bus. They were told the bus did not run, so they started to walk to the company
06:06-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2405
06:06-!-Guest2405 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:06-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
06:07<Rubidium>I and the person with the lost ticket came one train later and had less than a minute to transfer to the bus. We succeeded in that. During the bus trip we saw the group walking, so we decided to get out of the bus and walk with the group for the last few hundred meters
06:07<Zuu>Sounds like you were lucky to catch them up. :-)
06:08<Zuu>But maybe the larger group wasn't that happy to walk.
06:08<Rubidium>they were not that amused
06:09<Rubidium>interestingly I found a bus the locals didn't know about
06:10<Flygon>Huh
06:10<Flygon>Rubidium: I still challenge you to navigate Melbourne's trams unassisted
06:10<Flygon>It ends up being easier to bicycle :p
06:11<Rubidium>oh... free travel on Tuesday ;)
06:12<Zuu>Do they also have a short stop distance?
06:14<Rubidium>is unassisted "without locals helping" or "without doing any research at all"?
06:14<dihedral>hello
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: is that like "you pay half price if you only go 4 stops"?
06:15<Rubidium>it doesn't look that difficult
06:15<andythenorth>Alberth: is there no way to simply add an in-line button?
06:15<andythenorth>maybe de-chromed?
06:16<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: unless you forget to checout and you pay to the end destination. (that was a system that they were trying to deploy in Gothenburg)
06:16<Flygon>Rubidium: No local help
06:16<Flygon>Zuu: Practically every street corer
06:16<Flygon>corner*
06:17<Flygon>If you know your way around, it's basically a teleporter
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: "checkout"?
06:17<Zuu>blip your card on a reader before jumping of the tram/bus
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>oh
06:18<Flygon>Ah
06:18<Flygon>Smartcards
06:18<Flygon>We have those here
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>electronic ticket
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>no, we don't have those :)
06:18<Flygon>But they have to tell people to HOLD the card at the reader, and not bend it
06:18<@Alberth>andythenorth: it means you're faking the button; just like the advanced settings. You draw a button, and it acts like a button, but the button does not exist in the gui system. It is handled purely by the adv. settings Window code itself by means of x/y offset. That works because the position of a button is easy to figure out.
06:19<Flygon>A combination of people being ignorant that circuitboards are weak, the old 'smart' system using cardboard + magstrips, and shitty software (it takes forever to read the card)
06:19<andythenorth>ok that makes sense
06:19<Flygon>Only Victoria can spend literal billions on a ticketing system that ends up worse than a $250-$500 million Oyster card system
06:20<Flygon>(bill hit between $2.5b to $3.5b iirc)
06:20<Zuu>We have thoses for paying when you enter the bus/tram in most cities in Sweden. There was a project to set a common standard for all regions so that you would only need one card for whole Sweden and possible also some neighbouring countrise. However each region added extra features which now means that you need about 10+ cards co cover the entire country.
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: doesn't sound like a useful system anyway. if you go often enough that an electronic ticket is easier than a paper ticket, you probably want a monlthy/yearly ticket anyway
06:20<Flygon>Eddi: People here are getting V/Line paper tickets (intended for interstate and inter-regional travel) for urban travel, to avoid myki use
06:21<Flygon>The Govt doesn't like that. So they're converting the ENTIRE V/Line network to myki
06:21<Flygon>This will create unusual amusing problems in Adelade and Sydney... which use their own SEPERATE smartcards :p
06:21<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: I'm unsure if they still run it like that (with check out). It got massive critism when they were trying to introduce it.
06:21<Flygon>So you'll end up with railway and bus stations having both myki and Opal card readers :p
06:22<Zuu>One thing was that you were needed to have enough money on the card when going on the bus to be able to pay all way to the end.
06:22<Flygon>Really?
06:22<Flygon>That's dumb
06:22<Flygon>Here, your card just goes into negative balance
06:22<Flygon>The purchase fee for the card covers it
06:22<Zuu>That works if there is a fee to pay for the card.
06:23<Zuu>And that fee have to be high enough to be larger than the maximum negative balance. Otherwise people will put it into system.
06:23<Flygon>It's $3 for concession and $6 for full fare
06:24<Flygon>A Zone 1+2 full fare trip is around $6 one way
06:24<Flygon>(half fares for concession)
06:24<Flygon>Additional zones are V/Line-only (which only use paper atm)
06:24<Zuu>Also for non-metropolitan trips?
06:24<Zuu>Eg. going by local train.
06:24<Flygon>Define metropolitan?
06:25<Zuu>I mean, outside of the zones.
06:25<Flygon>Here, Zone 2 goes for between a 50 to 200 kilometer radius from Melbourne
06:25<Flygon>Ah
06:25<Flygon>Trains, Buses, and Trams here are all aligned to zones
06:25<Zuu>Ok
06:25<Flygon>And ferries are barely used
06:25<Zuu>Well, if the maximum price is no more than $6, then it might work.
06:25<Flygon>Zones 3 and beyound (including B... long story) are V/Line only anyway
06:25<Flygon>Yeah, inded
06:25<Flygon>Indeed*
06:26<Flygon>The confusion is, however... what happens when V/Line finally is forced to myki?
06:26<Flygon>Will they up the default didn't-touch-off price (for coaches and trains) to $50? Or just install myki barriers at EVERY station? :p
06:27<Flygon>I can imagine the political cartoons for myki barriers on coaches now :p
06:28<Flygon>Though, I imagine a better solution is having the conductor performing checks on cards, and charging extra for peeps with enough money
06:29<Flygon>Er, without enough credit on the cards
06:29<Zuu>With my Skånetrafiken card I can already pay a ticket from eg. Copenhagen all way to Gothenburg. Not just for myself but for more than one people also. So the maximum price I could pay is quite high.
06:29<Flygon>Funny quick story, Zuu, btw, regarding urban travel here
06:29<Flygon>On the only long distance electric line, they retired the 30+ year old electric locomotives
06:30<Flygon>There was no replacements
06:30<Flygon>The solution?
06:30<Flygon>They marshalled in some Comeng and Hitachi EMU's for a 300km+ trip
06:31<Flygon>Problem: These EMU's were designed for 115km/h top speed and 1 hour trips... they're basically seats on wheels, no other facilities
06:31<Flygon>The EMU trips got ditched quickly, some N-class Diesels purchased, and the line dewired
06:32<Flygon>(the Hitachi and Comeng even have the bonus of looking like they came from a 1970s New York subway :p)
06:32<Flygon>Wait, Zuu, you can cover multiple people on one card?
06:32<Flygon>Can't do that here... each person gets a card
06:33<Flygon>(unless you cheat and get help from V/Line, anyway)
06:33<Zuu>Flygon: Yep. Its your money that is loaded onto the card anyway. And you get some 20% savings when paying for two on the same ticket.
06:33<Flygon>Mm...
06:33<Flygon>You used to be able to get such things on Metcard, but not anymore
06:33<Zuu>After all you utilize the ticket machine less.
06:34<Flygon>V/Line is just a happy exemption, thanks to Zone B (it's basically a regional Zone 2... V/Line created it and shoved it down Viclink/PTV's gob for the sake of V/Line's operational convenience, iirc)
06:34<Flygon>Heh...
06:34<Zuu>Something which otherwise easily get a bottleneck on crowdy stations.
06:34<Flygon>Here, our myki readers struggle
06:34<Flygon>Huge queues aren't unusual
06:35<Flygon>Probably because people are dumb, and don't realize they have to HOLD the card for more than a tap4
06:35<Flygon>Everyone assumes it's an Oyster card
06:35<Flygon>(leave it to the Brits to be more efficient than Australians)
06:36-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:36-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
06:37<Zuu>Regarding zones, when you buy a ticket over the bridge to denmark, your ticket is valid for local transport in all zones in Copenhagen except for zone 2. So if you get off in zone 2 you have to figure out how to pay the local transport here or you get stuck. :-)
06:37-!-roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
06:37-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB3B02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:38<Flygon>What?
06:38<Flygon>That's confusing
06:38<Flygon>How does your zone network here?
06:38<Flygon>Zones 1 and 2 here are circular (based on distance from CBD)
06:39<Flygon>3 to... 78??? *shrug* are radial and dependant on which state you're in
06:39<Zuu>IIRC all zones in copenhagen are radial. I haven't yet used the local transport there other than the metro train.
06:40<Flygon>Oh, I see
06:40<Zuu>IIRC, Stockholm also got a radial zone system. However, when you go by metro you only pay for one zone even if you travel all way out to the end.
06:41<Flygon>http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/images/Maps-and-stops/Train-and-tram-network/Train-Network-Map-updated-O.gif Closest thing I can get to a zone map
06:41<Flygon>But it's not geographically accurate
06:41<valhallasw>Flygon: that probably depends on the reader. The dutch rfid public transport card is really fast for some readers (<100ms) and really slow for others (few secs)
06:41<Flygon>valhallasw: Even the best readers take over 500ms
06:42<valhallasw>what I meant to say is that they should have bought better readers :-)
06:42<V453000>:DD What does Bork AI do? :D is more bork than the rest?: D
06:43<Flygon>valhallasw: Yes, but that'd take $10 billion, with our Governments
06:44-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
06:44<Flygon>Better off investing in 10 new railway lines
06:44<Flygon>Or upgrading some existing V/Line lines to 250km/h operation
06:45<Flygon>...and then upgrading the transmission on the VLocity trains to handle over 200km/h safely @_@
06:45<Zuu>V453000: What does the Clueless AI do? Being more clueless than the others?
06:45<V453000>I dont know :D
06:45<Flygon>Zuu: No, being as clueless as me :D
06:48<Zuu>V453000: There is all range of names with different expcations. All way from bork, simple and clueless up to dictator. :-)
06:48<V453000>hm :)
06:48<V453000>whole range of bork :)
06:49<Zuu>And the correlation between the name and performance of the AI isn't that high.
06:49<@Alberth>in several different dimensions of borkness probably :p
06:50-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:50-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
06:55-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:58-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-055-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
06:58-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd
07:01-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
07:01-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:04-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:04-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:05-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
07:06-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:09-!-roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:14<V453000>hm I tried to code powered wagons so I made a livery override and then I added the extra power per wagon : 1000 ... it does show in the purchase menu, but the wagons dont get powered
07:14<V453000>:(
07:14<V453000>ideas?
07:15<Flygon>Get $5,000 and pay an Indian to fix it
07:15<Flygon>Since that seems to be the way the whole IT industry is going x.x
07:16<V453000>this isnt IT this is madness creations inc.
07:18<Flygon>Ah
07:18<Flygon>True dat
07:18<Flygon>I wish I could help
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: there's a special flag that says which wagons are powered and which ones are not
07:20<V453000>yeah I have that too :s
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>then you should talk to someone who does powered wagons
07:22<V453000>hm :d
07:22<V453000>know of anyone?
07:22<@peter1138>mb
07:22<@peter1138>(but he got it wrong)
07:23<V453000>I guess mb doesnt use nml
07:26<@peter1138>m4 i think
07:26-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5472.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
07:30-!-Peewee [~chatzilla@c-68-43-172-75.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
07:32-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:32-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
07:34-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
07:39*Alberth thinks so too
07:42-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
07:42-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:45<V453000>I wonder if the fact that the wagons also have a switch for graphics on their own could be the issue
07:45<+michi_cc>andythenorth: You've seen r24839?
07:45<V453000>but shouldnt the livery override just go over that?
07:45<andythenorth>yay \o/
07:46*andythenorth will pull and test FISH 2
07:46<V453000>:)
07:47-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2408
07:47-!-Guest2408 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:47-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
07:50<V453000>ah finally im dumb
07:50<V453000>the wagon also needed the powered flag
07:50<V453000>:)
08:01-!-M1zera [~Miranda@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:05-!-Psyk [~Psyk@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
08:16<frosch123>it's amusing how often "you need at least ottd r24715" is said recently :p
08:25<@peter1138>i've never said it
08:36<Pikka>nor I
08:38-!-Peewee [~chatzilla@c-68-43-172-75.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #openttd []
08:38<V453000>neither :D
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think i've broken civ5 completely now :/
08:52-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
08:52-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:12-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@186.212.212.8] has joined #openttd
09:20<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3401/fish_new_buy_menu.png
09:20<andythenorth>:)
09:20<andythenorth>I should centre those or something
09:22-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
09:22<+michi_cc>If you make sure the x-offset is always half the width the game should draw them all aligned.
09:23<@Alberth>the second entry has some weird quote at the start of the text
09:24<andythenorth>yes
09:24<andythenorth>or bad pixels
09:25<andythenorth>bad pixels
09:36<Pikka>why are the names of the ships in FISH completely different from one version to another? :)
09:37-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
09:37<Pikka>and does the bundaberg tanker carry rum or ginger beer? Those are the only two liquids that come from bundaberg. :)
09:37<drac_boy>hi
09:37<andythenorth>Pikka: I am confused myself :P
09:38<drac_boy>heh
09:38<andythenorth>where is the altair?
09:38<andythenorth>:
09:38<Pikka>lockheed altair?
09:38<Flygon>Urf, I just accidentally disabled that % thingo for stations
09:38<Flygon>How to reenable?
09:42<andythenorth>Pikka: "made up boat name" altair
09:42<andythenorth>nvm
09:48<drac_boy>btw does action7 disabling a grf based on another grf being present only works if you know the name of the latter grf..as in that you can't use it as a blank any-grfs skip?
09:51-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2414
09:51-!-Guest2414 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:51-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
09:56*drac_boy is just wondering how to not have two sprites conflict
09:58<@peter1138>...
09:58<@peter1138>disable your grf if any other grf is active? sounds ... useful
10:00<drac_boy>well thats what action7 description says .. I'm just wondering if the grf has to be named or it can be used as a blank action
10:01<drac_boy>thats pretty much all ^ :-)
10:01<@peter1138>it's done on grf id
10:01<drac_boy>mmm so it does have to be named. thanks
10:01*drac_boy goes back to reading some more pages
10:01<@peter1138>and that shit should be avoided
10:12-!-Psyk [~Psyk@84.95.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:12<andythenorth>ho ho
10:13*andythenorth has some fixes to do :)
10:13<drac_boy>peter1138 mm well in that case about avoiding action7 how would you make sure that you don't have for example two different tram track grfs loading at same time?
10:15<@peter1138>so what if you do?
10:16<Pikka>your mum should be avoided, peter1138
10:16<Pikka>but indeed, so what if you do
10:16<Pikka>I should think the second would take priority
10:20<andythenorth>FIRS disables itself if conflicting grfs are found
10:21<andythenorth>I don't know if that's wise
10:21<andythenorth>but handling bug reports is boring
10:21-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:21<drac_boy>yeah I don't want to bother with silly bug reports about using train combinations that shouldn't happen in first place neither
10:22<drac_boy>so I'm just thinking about it anyhow :)
10:22<@peter1138>train combinations. on tram tracks.
10:22<@peter1138>okay
10:23<drac_boy>actually its not just tram track :)
10:23<@Alberth>drac_boy: enumerating conflicting grf-ids is hardly a fool-proof way of handling it
10:23<@peter1138>you can't really list every possible grf id that may exist in the future
10:24<@peter1138>doesn't make sense
10:24<@Alberth>exactly :)
10:24<andythenorth>tell FIRS that :P
10:24<drac_boy>alberth yeah I know...still wonder how you can make a player not complain when its their own fault in first place tho
10:25<drac_boy>heh
10:25<@Alberth>explain it to them
10:27<@Alberth>another option is to acknowledge there are other good NewGRFs that you didn't write
10:28<@Alberth>andythenorth: the author of FIRS seems to know it already :p
10:35<drac_boy>is it just simply clerestory or are there other words for these older coach roofs with the raised center line?
10:35-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB3B02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24840 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-12-23 15:38:54 UTC)
10:39<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Draw NewGRF railtypes in NewGRF station previews.
10:39<@peter1138>only a few months since my last one
10:44-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:44<drac_boy>heh I noticed MB's newstation thread complained exactly about that :)
10:56<andythenorth>michi_cc: thanks :) https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3404/fish_buy_menu_super_awesome_edition.png
10:59-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has left #openttd []
11:01<drac_boy>heh thats nice.. a second choices of paddle boat finally
11:01<drac_boy>only question is: are introduction dates actually corrected this time or there's still too many silly diesel boats in 1900? :P
11:01<drac_boy>heh heh
11:03<drac_boy>at least you kept the two hydrofoil boats
11:12<@peter1138>drac_boy, not exactly that
11:25-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:33-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:36-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-119-33.as13285.net] has joined #openttd
11:43-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2426
11:43-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:46<andythenorth>drac_boy: the introduction dates will be wrong by 50 years or so
11:46<andythenorth>due to a bug I can't fix
11:46<andythenorth>oh well
11:46<andythenorth>[shrug]
11:46<andythenorth>nvm
11:48-!-Guest2426 [~Andy@host-2-101-119-33.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53<drac_boy>hmm to use numbering or letter system for my locomotive...good question heh
12:22-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
12:25-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
12:25-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:26<drac_boy>flygon if you're reading this, the thing you told me about speed restrictions before....
12:26<drac_boy>well apparently the same thing happened with canadian steam too
12:28<drac_boy>eg one locomotive class is rated for 70 due to its smaller tires (re counterweights) but some engineers had been known to do at least 85 with them on the other hand especially when late....! can't imagine the summer rail conditions like that
12:28<drac_boy>and its a streamlined express locomotive so....no comment :->
12:33-!-jstanek [~megakackt@75-168-36-41.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd
12:34-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:34<drac_boy>anyway need to eat some lunch
12:34-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
12:41-!-chester_ [~chester@128-72-15-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
12:55-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:05-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
13:10-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
13:12-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:21-!-jstanek [~megakackt@75-168-36-41.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:38-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
13:39-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:42-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:43-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24841 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-12-23 18:45:17 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 36 changes by Wowanxm
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by Snail_
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 25 changes by Joel_A
13:47-!-pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:47-!-pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
13:55-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:56-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
14:04*andythenorth wonders if santa will bring nicer smoke for newgrfs?
14:12<@peter1138>he doesn't have time to code
14:14<andythenorth>maybe his elves can do it?
14:14*andythenorth brings a FIRS 0.8.0 for christmas
14:15<andythenorth>on banananananans soon, unless my battery dies first :P
14:17-!-jstanek [~megakackt@75-168-36-41.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd
14:17<andythenorth>ho
14:17<andythenorth>pikka has 666 downloads of UKRS + Addon
14:17<@peter1138>just write a spec for it
14:17<andythenorth>does that mean the world will end?
14:18<@peter1138>put it in the newgrf specs
14:18<@peter1138>then complain that ottd doesn't support it
14:18<andythenorth>o_O
14:18<andythenorth>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4263
14:25-!-jstanek [~megakackt@75-168-36-41.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Auf Wiedersehen!]
14:25<andythenorth>I love that banananananaas description field counts returns
14:27<andythenorth>hmmm
14:27<andythenorth>also is bananas a bit fucked for uploading?
14:27<andythenorth>can't get it to accept this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.8.0/firs-0.8.0.tar.zip
14:27<andythenorth>"couldn't detect anything useful in this pack"
14:28<andythenorth>or "There should only be one NewGRF in your pack"
14:28<andythenorth>the second error occurs when I unzip & untar, then rezip
14:36<andythenorth>grf works in game
14:38<@peter1138>tar.zip? crazy
14:38<andythenorth>comes from the makefile
14:38<andythenorth>uploading manually tarred version results in second error
14:39<andythenorth>tempted to blame the banana machine :P
14:52-!-dv8472 [~8472@dial-92-52-3-66-orange.orange.sk] has joined #openttd
14:57<dv8472>hi, after very long time, I've returned back to ottd (using latest 1.2.3), started new game. after some time, I've noticed, that industries, like farms, forrests etc. are producing (after some time, not from beginning) very low, only few units at most. what changed? I've found something named FIRS in the wiki, with something about spare parts, but I'm not sure about it, and also how to use these, as I don't see no such options in the game.
14:58<Zuu>To use FIRS, it have to be downloaded and then activated in the NewGRF settings before starting a new game. So the chance that you use it is probably quite low.
14:58<Zuu>Keeping the station ratings up keep up the chance for production raises.
14:58<dv8472>ok, thx for clarification about the FIRS.
14:59<dv8472>station ratings? and how do I increase the station rating, station at farms, forrests, etc. ...?
14:59<Zuu>The station that pick up the cargo.
15:00<Zuu>If it is just eg. 20% you will only get 20% of the industry output.
15:00<dv8472>yes that one.
15:00<Zuu>However if it is 80%, you get 80% of the industry output (given no competitor)
15:01<dv8472>is there a way I can increase the rating?
15:01<Zuu>There is also a chance for production raise/drop which have a relation to the level of service provided.
15:01<Zuu>Buy a statue in the town it belongs to. That give a 10% boost.
15:02<Zuu>Always have at least one train loading at the station.
15:02<Zuu>Have new trains
15:02<dv8472>aha, so even the farm rating is related to what I buy for the city?
15:02<Zuu>There is a Game Mechanics wiki page that get into high detail on this if you want to read exactly how things work.
15:02<dv8472>even though my the company relationship with city is e.g. very good?
15:03<andythenorth>if you want FIRS, try the newest version :P
15:03<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.8.0/firs-0.8.0.tar.zip
15:03<andythenorth>not on the content service though :(
15:03<Zuu>The statue give a 10% station rating boost for all your stations "in" that town.
15:03<dv8472>no, no FIRS, I was only curious about it
15:03<Zuu>Basically all industries belong to a town. Usually (always?) the closest town.
15:03<dv8472>sure
15:04<dv8472>I simply forgot about the basics, and the station ratings through services for city especially ;)
15:04<dv8472>thanks for quick reminder Zuu
15:05<Zuu>andythenorth: Did you try to upload the NewGRF in just a tar?
15:05<andythenorth>not yet
15:05<andythenorth>if it succeeds, then there is no readme and such :P
15:05<Zuu>Isn't the readme inside the tar?
15:05<andythenorth>brb food
15:06<Zuu>Eg an AI/GS is a tar with one root directory in which main.nut and info.nut are the two compulsory .nut files. In this root directory there can also be readme.txt, changelog.txt and the license file.
15:08<Zuu>If the NewGRF-tar cannot hold the readme etc. I would try to make an outer tar containing the NewGRF-tar + readme files etc. and upload that to bananas.
15:08<Zuu>I don't know if that works, but it is something that I would try.
15:09-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:09-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
15:10<Zuu>It does however look (looking at the source code) that it should support uploading zip containers.
15:11<Zuu>(zip, tar or rar)
15:11<Zuu>Eg. first it look for compression using gz or bz2 then for one of the three containers mentioned above.
15:12<Zuu>Eg. you can upload .tar.bz2 or even .zip.gz, but not .tar.zip.
15:15<Zuu>andythenorth: When I download your .tar.zip file it contains two firs.grf inside the tar file. One at root level and one in a sub directory called "PaxHeaders.20324".
15:15<Zuu>If bananas find more than one .grf files it will give the error that you mentioned.
15:16-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
15:16<dv8472>Zuu: does the small advert. camp. have the same effect as an statue?
15:17<Zuu>no
15:17<+glx>statue is permanent
15:17<drac_boy>hi
15:19<dv8472>glx: yes, but also much more expensive (about 400000?). and as I'm at the beginning of the game, I'm not that rich yet, to afford e.g. build statue in 11 cities.
15:24<andythenorth>Zuu: interesting....I can't see a subdir if I expand that .tar.zip
15:25<Zuu>I used 7zip if that make a difference.
15:26<andythenorth>hmm
15:27<drac_boy>whats the compressed file for?
15:30-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<Zuu>hmm gnu tar doesn't give me a sub directory.
15:30<Zuu>Maybe that is just a 7zip thingy that happen due passing through the zip layer.
15:30<drac_boy>since I have no idea what this file is 'm just going on a bit limb and suggest that some apps just simply don't reproduce empty folders?
15:35<Zuu>Here is a bug report from debian on the PaxHeader issue: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=230872
15:36<Zuu>I don't know what version of tar which is used on bananas, but if it is a version that doesn't understand these extended headers, it will see all files twice if I understand it correctly.
15:38-!-dv8472 [~8472@dial-92-52-3-66-orange.orange.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:39-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
15:40-!-dv8472 [~8472@dial-92-52-3-66-orange.orange.sk] has joined #openttd
15:43<@peter1138>that's a pretty old bug
15:43<@peter1138>so it's unlikely to be that
15:43<Zuu>That is what came up when I searched on PaxHeaders and tar.
15:44<Zuu>But indeed, the server that run bananas probably don't have a untar that is affected by it.
15:47-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
15:49<dv8472>Zuu: ain't there some cheaper replacement/other option for the statue? because if a man is at beginning, spreading his stations all over the map (mostly by transporting the raw resources \), it's impossible to buy statue at each city. thus the fall down of rating at each station is imminent.
15:49<@peter1138>it's not like you need them
15:50<Zuu>They give 10% bonus, but if you get 60% by a usual station you can bost that to 70%, but it is not win or lose to get those extra 10%.
15:51<Zuu>The statues are for when you earn enough money to afford them and can't find better ways to spend your money. Then you can boost your main pickup stations/towns using a statue.
15:52<dv8472>Zuu: well, right I'm testing it on one station. I already purchased one statue, having currently 28% of ratio. and lot of my stations around are quite low on ratio.
15:52<Zuu>Do you transport industry cargo or town cargo?
15:52<Zuu>For industries, I would suggest using full load orders if you don't do that yet.
15:53<Zuu>Eg. play the lorry scenario in "Beginner tutorial"
15:53<Zuu>(a scenario that you get via online content and then click on play scenario in the main menu)
15:54<dv8472>industry mostly, from one I have already town cargo - goods depending on the factory production depending on the industry cargo being very low.
15:54<dv8472>I also do not remember such complications before. either something changed, or perhaps I just grew old and forgot lot of things when I used to play years before.
15:55<Zuu>If you don't use full load orders, I'm not surprised that you get a rating at 28%.
15:55<dv8472>no, no full load orders
15:55-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
15:55<Zuu>The full load order basically tell the vehicle to wait on full load before leaving the station.
15:56<andythenorth>anyone else want to build FIRS and tar for me?
15:56<andythenorth>o_O
15:56<dv8472>this is precisely what I'm surprised as well, that the prod. ratio is so low
15:56<Zuu>andythenorth: I could give a try. That bug report above (or some other) suggest using the -poxis flag.
15:57<andythenorth>ho
15:57<andythenorth>it worked this time
15:57<andythenorth>I built the dir with the makefile, then manually tarred
15:57<andythenorth>works
15:58<Zuu>great
15:58<Zuu>Christmas is saved :-)
15:58<dv8472>Zuu: sorry, last answer of yours I misunderstood, just now I realized the mistake :) , so you say full load will change the ratio?
15:59<dv8472>I'll give it a try
15:59<Zuu>dv8472: If you always have at least one vehicle (train, lorry, bus, aircraft, or ship) loading at the station, your rating will increase.
16:00<dv8472>ok, thx for the hint
16:00<Zuu>The cargo siting in your vehicle after being loaded onto it will age, so the average payment per transported unit of cargo will drop.
16:00<Zuu>However, as you will fill up your vehicles better and get more cargo, it is still an improvment.
16:01<dv8472>ok, thx
16:01<+glx>the best is to have an empty vehicule enter the station just before the full one goes
16:01<Zuu>For your information, cargo that wait on stations do not age.
16:02<Zuu>However, cargo may disappear from the station instead.
16:02<dv8472>there must have changed something with this indeed over the years, as I remember I have not used full loading before, and the ratio was never so bad.
16:03<drac_boy>glx thats why I've always liked balloon-shaped station ... but mm :)
16:04<Zuu>dv8472: I can't remember this having changed. I know that FIRS contain an alternative station rating mechanism. Also some of the cargo destination patches have made attempts to rework station rating.
16:04<Zuu>But the default station rating is pretty much the same as ever as far as I know.
16:05<Zuu>station rating mechanism*
16:05<dv8472>then perhaps I grew old :D
16:05<drac_boy>heh maybe dv8472
16:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24842 /trunk/src (69 files in 7 dirs) (2012-12-23 21:06:37 UTC)
16:06<@DorpsGek>-Remove: News settings window.
16:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24843 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-23 21:07:12 UTC)
16:07<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Move news display options into the general settings framework. (based on patch by eagle_rainbow)
16:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24844 /trunk/src (59 files in 4 dirs) (2012-12-23 21:08:02 UTC)
16:08<@DorpsGek>-Add: News display settings to adv. settings window.
16:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24845 /trunk/src (61 files in 4 dirs) (2012-12-23 21:08:42 UTC)
16:08<@DorpsGek>-Add: News ticker sound setting to adv. settings window.
16:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24846 /trunk/src (33 files in 3 dirs) (2012-12-23 21:09:09 UTC)
16:09<@DorpsGek>-Add: Advanced settings to disable certain sound effects.
16:10<drac_boy>don't know if theres any "steam technical engineers" in here heh but any of you know if a 3-cylinder compound locomotive would had likely been two small outside cylinders piped into one large center cylinder thats at least 1.5-2 times larger in diameter? or exactly how did they size it up anyway?
16:14<Pinkbeast>The l.p. cylinder(s) overall swept volume must be larger by the ratio of steam pressures.
16:14<Pinkbeast>So two h.p. cylinders into one l.p one produces a very big l.p cylinder
16:14<drac_boy>hmm thanks
16:16<Pinkbeast>One h.p and two l.p was a much more common arrangement; and Webb's "one l.p" locomtives were not often successful
16:18<drac_boy>I doubt any locomotives with a left-l.p/right-h.p two cylinder setups were ever liked that much, were they?
16:18<drac_boy>I know that the few usa locomotives that initially came that way were very shortly rebuilt to conventional 2 h.p instead
16:23-!-andythenorth is now known as Guest2444
16:23-!-andythenorth [~Andy@31.123.198.18] has joined #openttd
16:24<drac_boy>pinkbeast I don't know if you knew but at least one garratt type locomotive was built as 3-cylinder compound .. so it had a total of six pistons .. 3 front, 3 back
16:24<drac_boy>only one was built tho, not exactly a good record
16:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24847 /trunk/src/lang (53 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-23 21:25:05 UTC)
16:25<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup (r24750): Remove unused strings.
16:30-!-Guest2444 [~Andy@host86-167-47-151.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:45<drac_boy>any unicode characters can go for player-visible text fields in a grf I presume?
16:46<frosch123>in theory
16:47<frosch123>but not every font might have every character
16:47-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
16:47<drac_boy>mm well common symbols should still be ok nevertheless?
16:50*andythenorth -> bed
16:50-!-andythenorth [~Andy@31.123.198.18] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:50<drac_boy>and yeah I have noticed some computers with fonts that for some reason don't know how to display a french 'e' even although this is a english/french country here damn it :P
16:51<drac_boy>eddi not here to answer this one but I assume that an open wagon without funnel and standard sides would be the same thing as an usa gondola car?
16:55<frosch123>isn't a gondola just an open wagon with less high sides?
16:56<drac_boy>yeah I had thought too..just wanted to recheck on that
16:56<drac_boy>ty
16:57<drac_boy>other things are easier to match .. eg covered van would just be a boxcar to us
16:58<drac_boy>I doubt usa knows what to call a boxcar that has full-length sliding walls tho ... I just know they are named Hibbins over there in europe
16:59<drac_boy>mm anyway back to a bit more work
17:10<frosch123>covered van could also be only a tarpaulin, couldn't it?
17:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24848 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-12-23 22:12:52 UTC)
17:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5386]: Consider regearing-like cargos as no-cargo in cargo filters.
17:18-!-dv8472 [~8472@dial-92-52-3-66-orange.orange.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:29-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
17:33<drac_boy>frosch123 you may be right but I don't see anything in the german system that would suggest that tho. might be best to ask uk since they had a lot of tarped cars
17:41-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:53-!-chester_ [~chester@128-72-15-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:53<drac_boy>interesting reading if anyone want something a bit different on uk steam http://www.lner.info/article/tech/compound/boosters.shtml
17:54<drac_boy>especially the odd locomotive with the large "articulated" truck under cab/tender
18:03-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
18:28<Supercheese>Oh sheesh, I have to update and recompile yet again
18:28<Supercheese>New commits
18:29<drac_boy>heh
18:29<drac_boy>btw had any further progress with your in-game gulls?
18:30<frosch123>it's good times for translator business :p
18:30<Supercheese>Nope, like 90% of my favorite GRFs have recently updated
18:30<Supercheese>I can't do any work when I keep playing the game
18:30<Supercheese>:D
18:31<drac_boy>Supercheese heh heh :)
18:31*drac_boy finished my classification table and most of the draft locomotives too
18:31<drac_boy>just working on final (and much smaller) list now :-s
18:32<drac_boy>that together with that I think my supper from the oven's due soon too
18:32<Supercheese>That reminds me, I have to do the dishes
18:32<Supercheese>playing too much OTTD :P
18:33<drac_boy>heh heh
18:38<drac_boy>afk now :)
18:43-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:46-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@46.239.219.51] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
18:47-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-4.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
18:48-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@46.239.219.51] has joined #openttd
18:50<drac_boy>heh hey stimrol...funny timing..just finished eating supper dish :P
18:51<drac_boy>have wait a little bit for the dessert one :)
18:51-!-ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:51-!-ivan` [~ivan`@000130ca.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
19:05<Wolf01>'night all
19:05-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:08<frosch123>night
19:08-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5472.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:14-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-055-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
19:30-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []
19:36-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67657.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
19:36<drac_boy>hi eddi :)
19:42-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
19:42-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:50-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
19:50-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:02-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
20:02-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:05-!-Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:05-!-Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:09-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A5C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:10*drac_boy straggles flygon's modem for no known reasons
20:10<drac_boy>heh heh
20:12<Flygon_>I suspect my ISP
20:12<Flygon_>I want FIOS already
20:12-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
20:13<Supercheese>Is the Fiber really all that jazz?
20:13<Flygon>Supercheese: It lacks the sync issues ADSL has
20:13<drac_boy>heh
20:13<Flygon>As well as just being a hell of a lot more robust
20:13<Supercheese>How about compared with Cable? Or is that not an option there?
20:13<drac_boy>how're you otherwise?
20:14<Flygon>Supercheese, we can get 100/2 cable here. But three issues.
20:14<Flygon>1. It's being replaced by FIOS in the future
20:14<Flygon>2. It's run by Telstra
20:14<Flygon>3. It's more expensive than hiring the Queen as a sex slave due to being run by Telstra
20:15<Supercheese>Cost prohibitive, hmm
20:15<Supercheese>It's pretty cheap here
20:15<Flygon>Also, it has download limits
20:15<Supercheese>Oh really? I hate ISPs that cap max downloaded in a month or whatnot
20:15<Flygon>http://www.telstra.com.au/internet/home-broadband-bigpond-ultimate-plans/
20:16*Supercheese cannot even connect to that website
20:16<Supercheese>:S
20:16<Flygon>Really?
20:16<Supercheese>there it goes finally
20:16<Supercheese>long load
20:16<Flygon>Wow
20:16<Flygon>Bad routing?
20:16<Flygon>It IS hosted in Aussieland...
20:17<drac_boy>heh
20:17<Supercheese>I dunno, going from US to Au...
20:17<Supercheese>ugh, FIVE gigabyte limit?!
20:17<Flygon>But yeah
20:17<Flygon>$129 for an even remotely acceptable plan
20:17<Supercheese>I can sneeze and download more than that
20:18<Flygon>It's actually cheaper to get FIOS from other ISPs
20:18<Flygon>Or get multiple ADSL plans
20:18<Flygon>Presuming you have more than 1 phone line
20:18<Supercheese>Oy vey, I see the problem
20:19<Flygon>http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html $99 for more download limit and 100/40 instead of 100/2
20:20<Flygon>And it'll probably be upgradable to 1000/1000 in future @_@
20:22*drac_boy wonders if flygon is ranting too much to even do anything else now? :)
20:22<drac_boy>heh eh
20:22<Flygon>Whatchaya mean?
20:22<Flygon>I mean, let's put it this way
20:22<Supercheese>Jeez, do they all have download quotas/caps?
20:22<Flygon>The rail industry has better internet infrastructure than much of Australia atm
20:23<Flygon>Supercheese: Depends on the ISP
20:23<Flygon>But it's expected caps will be a thing of the past in future
20:23<Supercheese>I would sincerely hope so
20:23<Flygon>Me too
20:23<Flygon>Caps are, excuse my language, bullshit
20:23<Supercheese>I frequently download television series that can run from 20-70 gigabytes
20:23<Supercheese>I'm filling my 1.5 TB hard drive ~_~
20:24<Flygon>Ach
20:24<Supercheese>I'd run into any of those download caps in a day, some days anyway
20:24<Flygon>50GB is my current limit @_@
20:24<Flygon>We do intend to change ISPs
20:24<Flygon>If I got the income, I'd actually get Telstra cable for myself. @_@
20:24<Supercheese>well, maybe not 500 gigs in a day :P
20:25<Flygon>Parents are a tad slow
20:25<Flygon>500GB a day is entirely possible on NBN :P
20:25<Supercheese>I dunno what would be 500 gigs that I'd download all at once though
20:25<Supercheese>The Complete Collection of Every Star Trek Ever, all in 1080p, perhaps
20:26<Supercheese>if such a thing exists :P
20:26<Flygon>Only ToS and parts of TNG have been remastered for 1080p
20:26<Flygon>Not counting the movies here
20:26<Supercheese>They're releasing some TNG remastered eps in theaters here, even
20:26<Supercheese>promoting the blurays I suppose
20:26<Flygon>In theatures?
20:26<Supercheese>aye
20:26<Flygon>Er, theaters?
20:27<Flygon>Shit, man, I wish they did that here!
20:27<Flygon>But all Aussie theatres air is just the latest movies
20:27<Supercheese>http://www.fathomevents.com/#!star-trek-the-next-generation/more-info/details
20:27<Flygon>We have an, unfortunately, different movie culture to the USA
20:27<Supercheese>Oh, it already happened
20:27<Supercheese>:S
20:28<Flygon>Notice how comments on the page also complain about the Australia thing :p
20:29<Flygon>It's actually surprising that they don't air Star Trek episodes in movies here... we're full of Trekkies, and other Sci-Fi fans
20:29<Supercheese>Probably some silly legal reason somewhere
20:29<Flygon>Probably one of the few countries where you'll find utterly devout fans of Star Trek that're devout to Doctor Who too :p
20:29<Supercheese>When something cool is failing to happen, likely some legislation somewhere is to blame
20:29<Flygon>Eh...
20:29<Supercheese>rule of thumb
20:30<Flygon>I'd have to look into it
20:30<Flygon>But I think it's just that cinemas don't want to risk losing a profit on something that isn't getting nationwide advertising
20:30<Supercheese>(alternatively, when bad things happen, also look for stupid laws)
20:31<Flygon>We have a far higher minimum wage here... this's probably one of the few industries there it could possibly be a detriment (due to hiring a guy $16/hr to look over a movie reel for an hour with barely any patrons)
20:31<Supercheese>Ouch, yeah
20:32-!-DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:32-!-DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
20:32-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
20:32<Flygon>But, frankly
20:32<Flygon>I'd rather our min wage over TNG in cinemas
20:32<Flygon>I mean, who can even survive on $7/hr?
20:33<Flygon>You may as well eat dirt for lunch
20:33<drac_boy>actually not really
20:34<Flygon>drac_boy: Things cost around 20-50% more in Australia
20:34<drac_boy>$7/hr if for six hours a day .. could get you a rented cottage-like space (may be shared roof..maybe not) ... basic dsl ... and some nice healthy foods ... and a small saving addup
20:34<Flygon>Partially because everything has 10% sales tax included
20:34<Supercheese>$7/hr would be awesome, it all depends on the price for goods & services
20:34<Supercheese>would be awesome earlier in time*
20:34<drac_boy>and thats with a 13% hst on everything even newspapers (yes..don't ask me why!)
20:34<Flygon>$7/hr in Australia would let you rent a cardboard box in Australia
20:35<Flygon>Let's put it this way
20:35<Supercheese>Yep, all depends on prices of stuff
20:35<Flygon>Paying over $1000/mo rent on minimum wage isn't unusual
20:35<Flygon>And actually considered quite cheap
20:35<Supercheese>A better figure would be the ratio of wages:living costs
20:35<Supercheese>The higher the better :)
20:36<Supercheese>Well, not higher as in legally enforced minimum higher
20:36<drac_boy>reminds me of a silly 'murphy law offshot' list....
20:36<Supercheese>but anyway
20:36*Supercheese must leave to order turkey for Christmas dinner
20:38<Flygon>Supercheese: I'd say our ratio is better than America
20:38<Flygon>I'd rather live in a high wage, high cost country (that generally infers a strong economy)
20:38<Flygon>Than a low wage, low cost country (eg. USA)
20:38-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
20:40<@peter1138>this is not the most practical terminal...
20:41<@peter1138>/usr/lib/xscreensaver/apple2 -text -fast -program /bin/bash
20:41-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:41<Flygon>peter1138: Try AVISynth
20:41<Flygon>THEN you'll see impractical
20:41<Flygon>Even worse: I actually tried programing in AviSynth
20:41<Flygon>Which is difficult when you... it's complex
20:42<+glx>I did only basic stuff in avs
20:44<Flygon>I should try to find some of my more complex scripts... but a friend prolly has it
20:45<Flygon>I think we somehow ended up creating a semi-automated .bat-.avs hybrid solution
20:45<+glx>that's what I use :)
20:45<Flygon>As in
20:45<+glx>.bat creating the .avs and passing it to x264
20:45<Flygon>The .bat ended up being a program that... it's complex
20:46<Flygon>My friend and I used to do shizz for TASVideos
20:46<+glx>usually my avs is just open a video and deinterlace it
20:47<Flygon>Ahh
20:47<Flygon>I never had to deal with deinterlacing, thankfully
21:02-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
21:22-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
22:07-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
22:55<Supercheese>Hmm, seems I no longer have to include whitespace at the front of the vehicle name, OTTD is OK with oversized purchase sprites now :D
23:01<Supercheese>Blarg, accidentally overwrote my language file :<
23:01<Supercheese>have to redo all the strings
23:05<Supercheese>ah well, only had 3 strings in that grf
23:27-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
23:27-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd
23:48-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:59<Flygon>Hmmm
---Logclosed Mon Dec 24 00:00:03 2012