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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-25

---Logopened Tue Dec 25 00:00:26 2012
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01:53<@Terkhen>good morning
02:02-!-George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
02:02<George>Hello
02:03<George>Is there anybody here who could help me with NML
02:03<George>I've tried to change akasoft's code
02:03<Supercheese>code of what?
02:04<George>by adding new default livery which is a randof of other
02:04<George>code of a wagon
02:04<George>http://pastebin.com/f8hMKH64
02:04<George>but my change causes OTTD r24837 to crash
02:05<Supercheese>Holy preprocessor directives, Batman
02:05<George>when I open a new vehicle window
02:06<George>I can't understand, what could be wrong
02:06<George>I've only added a new random for CB 2D
02:07<George>my changes are - adding strings 84-95 and string 101
02:09<Supercheese>I dunno sorry
02:10<Supercheese>I don't use the colour_mapping callback myself
02:15<Supercheese>It should be "color_mapping", but apparently the devs prefer British English :P
02:19<@Terkhen>George: I don't know how to modify liveries with nml, but a NewGRF should not be making OpenTTD crash... could you please open an OpenTTD bug report with the nml code attached to it so we can check that crash?
02:20<@Terkhen>with my somewhat limited nml knowledge the code does not look wrong
02:20<George>where should I post the crash files?
02:20<George>Here http://bugs.openttd.org/
02:20<George>&
02:20<George>I mean ?
02:20<@Terkhen>George: yes, thanks :)
02:21<George>creating the report
02:22<@Terkhen>with regard to the code, I barely remember how random switches are supposed to work... but calling a random switch from a switch seems wrong to me
02:23<@Terkhen>but I'm not sure :P
02:23<@Terkhen>you may have to wait a bit until someone more knowledgeable wakes up :)
02:27<V453000>hohoho, is the large sprite support in 1.3?
02:27<Supercheese>I didn't check
02:28<Supercheese>I agree the oversized purchase sprites support in trunk is nice
02:29<V453000>point is I update newgrf when stable has it, so asking :)
02:32<@Terkhen>V453000: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/24850/#file0 <-- it is in the 1.3.0-beta1 testing release, but not in stable :P
02:32<@Terkhen>(second item)
02:34<V453000>testing release is stable for me
02:34<V453000>:)
02:35<V453000>and changing nuts so it follows the big purchase menu sprites will at least make more people consider testing
02:36<@Terkhen>great :)
02:38<George>FS#5404
02:41<George>do I need to add any additional information?
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02:51<@Terkhen>George: that's all it should need, thank you :)
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03:55<kamnet>Anybody awake who would like to help me w/ TortiseSVN and patching ?
03:57<Eddi|zuHause>it
03:57<Eddi|zuHause>'s really simple
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>just right-click and say "apply patch"
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>but you can't use hg patches
03:58<@planetmaker>nor git
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>tortoise doesn't understand all patch formats
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>use command-line patch in that case
03:59<dihedral>hello
03:59<kamnet>I tried doing that and I'm getting an error, "k:\games\OpenTTD\nightly\r24837 is not a working copy"
03:59<@planetmaker>good morning also everyone. And merry christmas :-)
03:59<dihedral>yes, merry x-mas ;-)
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04:00<Eddi|zuHause>kamnet: what's the first three lines of the patch?
04:00<Supercheese>Felix die Christi natalis (hope I'm getting that right)
04:00<kamnet>Index: projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj =================================================================== --- projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj (revision 24837) +++ projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj (working copy)
04:00<Supercheese>perhaps add a "vobis" to that
04:00<@planetmaker>:-)
04:00<kamnet>Good morning and merry Christmas to all.
04:01<@planetmaker>Supercheese, christus is u-declination
04:01<Eddi|zuHause>kamnet: that looks right. how did you get your working copy?
04:01<@planetmaker>I *think*
04:01<Supercheese>Pretty sure Christus is irregular
04:01<@planetmaker>hm... no. Jesus is. christus not. whatever
04:01<Supercheese>Dictionary says Christi is genitive
04:01<kamnet>clicked on the link on the wiki to get to the repository, entered the revision I needed, copied it over.
04:01<@planetmaker>then it's regular o-declination
04:02<Supercheese>I think it has some other strange cases
04:02<Supercheese>hence the irregularity
04:02<Eddi|zuHause>kamnet: which link?
04:02<kamnet>svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
04:02<@planetmaker>jesus, jesus, jesui, jesum, jesu or so ;-)
04:02<Supercheese>or was that the strange one yeah :P
04:03<Supercheese>it's 1 AM here, getting sleepy
04:03<Eddi|zuHause>kamnet: then i don't know...
04:03<Eddi|zuHause>kamnet: you did "something" wrong during that, but i don't have the time to get deeper into this
04:04<@peter1138>grrr pulseaudio fucking up :S
04:05<kamnet>So goes my first foray into applying patches. :-/
04:05<@planetmaker>did building that version of openttd, unpatched work for you?
04:05<kamnet>No I've not tried that yet.
04:05<@peter1138>07:15 < Supercheese> It should be "color_mapping", but apparently the devs prefer British English :P
04:06<@peter1138>no, we just prefer English
04:06<Supercheese>hah
04:06<@planetmaker>"not a working copy" implies that you try to apply the patch outside the dir which you checked out
04:06<@peter1138>not our fault you fuck it up
04:06<Rubidium>Supercheese: which developer is American (or even born in North America)?
04:06<@planetmaker>and always build w/o patch to be sure that you can build it at all
04:06<kamnet>The diff file should be in the dir, yes?
04:06<Supercheese>I never said anything about that...?
04:07<@planetmaker>I don't know where tortoise expects any file to be; I don't use it.
04:07<Rubidium>so, why should we use a language that no developer is native in
04:08<Rubidium>and in Europe I reckon most are taught (British) English instead of American; at least I was
04:08<@planetmaker>so was I. And then it was spoilt by reality :D
04:08<George>I see devs... Merry Christmas and FS#5404
04:08<kamnet>I right-click on the .diff file, select TortiseSVN->Apply Patch, then select the directory where I downloaded the nightly.
04:09<George>any ideas?
04:09<kamnet>It SEEMS like it is straight forward
04:09<@planetmaker>merry christmas also to you, George ! :-)
04:09<Rubidium>George: looks like you're overwriting the map generation sprites
04:09<George>What am I doung wrong?
04:09<@planetmaker>(but I guess you'll have that later?)
04:09*Supercheese was just trying to be funny...
04:09<George>Rubidium: How can I fix that?
04:10<Rubidium>George: or "using" the map generation sprite somewhere
04:10<@peter1138>kamnet, you downloaded the nightly, or checked it out with =svn?
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04:10<George>It just my first experience in NML
04:10<Rubidium>George: no idea, I just looked at the crash log
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04:11<kamnet>peter1138: opened svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk, TortiseSVN fires up, I enter the revision number I wanted, drag/dropped the files to new directory. '
04:11<George>I just want to add a new default livery that is a random of the other liveres the wagon have
04:12<@planetmaker>kamnet, drag+drop... you mean manually move on your machine? Then you didn't move everything
04:12<Rubidium>George: liveries are well outside of my area of knowledge
04:12<@planetmaker>especially not the svn meta information
04:12<George>And who can help me with them?
04:12<@planetmaker>don't drag+drop a checkout, but checkout into the correct dir straight ahead
04:13<kamnet>I selected every file in the window.
04:13<@peter1138>i've used tortoisesvn a long time ago, but i don't remember its ui being like that
04:13<Rubidium>kamnet: also the hidden file?
04:13<@planetmaker>kamnet, except the hidden ones
04:13<kamnet>Kinda hard to select hidden files if I can't see them, isn't it? ;-)
04:13<@peter1138>oh i see, wouldn't you just rename the directory and move that?
04:14<@planetmaker>George, is the full source code available so that I could build the grf?
04:14<@peter1138>or just check it out to the right place to start with?
04:14<kamnet>Where's the right place?
04:14<@planetmaker>where you want it to be, kamnet
04:14<@peter1138>whereever you wanted it
04:15<kamnet>OH! Hey, I just noticed that apparently there is a directory tree on this window, except that it's completely minimized.
04:15<@planetmaker>kamnet, however: first compile. then patch. then compile again
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04:17<kamnet>And now if I right-click on the "trunk" folder, I get an option to export
04:20<@planetmaker>mind: tortoise cannot compile the game for you. It's just means to get the source code
04:21<@planetmaker>so, it's like, you now got the book. Now you gotta read and understand it. If you allow the analogy
04:22<kamnet>Hm, thought I already had mingw, apparently I do not. So off to grab that now
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04:36<Supercheese>Ugh, I hate the Windows UI for GIMP
04:36<Supercheese>Nothing I can do about it though
04:41<kamnet>*sighs* So, I grab latest version of MinGW, install, start to compile, get complaint that zlib isn't found. Find link for zlib in mingw, follow link, takes me right back to the link to download the latest version of mingw
04:44<@planetmaker>you can suddenly start to like it, Supercheese ;-)
04:44<Supercheese>Theoretically
04:45<kamnet>What's different about it from other OS?
04:46<Supercheese>No idea, but it's not Windows native, so I'm presuming that's the cause of some of the issues
04:46<Supercheese>It does not behave like most Windows programs
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04:49<kamnet>I'll agree, not like a native windows application, but it didn't take me long to figure it out
04:49<Supercheese>Oh I've used it for years
04:49<Supercheese>it's just so quirky
04:49<kamnet>Would anybody know what I need to do to get MinGW and zlib going? :-(
04:53<@Terkhen>kamnet: there is a MinGW tutorial in the wiki
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05:01<kamnet>Thank you Terkhen!
05:02<@Terkhen>yw :)
05:03<kamnet>nd thank you also to Planetmaker and peter1138 and Eddi|zuHause
05:04<kamnet>And thank you, also, to the Baby Jesus born 2013 years ago.
05:07<Supercheese>Give or take :)
05:07<Supercheese>Yeah, the wiki tutorials on compiling are great
05:08<@Terkhen>:)
05:09*Terkhen hopes that other people take upon the task of updating the MinGW tutorial
05:09<@Terkhen>it seems that I have switched to linux for good this time
05:12<kamnet>I may task myself to that if I end up actually using it on a regular basis
05:16<kamnet>Hm, to install or not install libicu
05:22<@Terkhen>that thing is a PITA, luckily all of the work of forcing it to compile in MinGW is done :P
05:22<@Terkhen>if you follow the steps in the wiki, the only thing that it will take is a lot of time
05:23<@Terkhen>if you do not require the extra characters the only thing that you will be mising is natural sorting, though
05:24<kamnet>I guess I can go back and add it later if I need it. Helping another user who is building a patch pack with a windows build
05:25<@Terkhen>yes, you only need to follow the steps in the wiki and run configure again in OpenTTD to let it detect libicu
05:26<kamnet>I'm about done installing mingw then. whee
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05:40<kamnet>WOOT! Compile went good. Now to patch!
05:40<@Terkhen>:)
05:43<kamnet>And FAIL! :_(
05:44<kamnet>[SRC] Compiling ai/ai_config.cpp In file included from k:/games/openttd/nightly/24837/src/ai/ai_config.cpp:13:0: k:/games/openttd/nightly/24837/src/ai/../settings_type.h:21:38: fatal error: lin kgraph/linkgraph_type.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated. make[1]: *** [ai/ai_config.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/k/games/openttd/nightly/2
05:46<SpComb>aptitude install timidity \o/
05:46<SpComb>kamnet: failed to add new files?
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05:47<kamnet>Not aware of any new files I needed to add. I'm trying to install a patch and build a windows binary for a user to test. All I was sent was the .diff file. running under mingw
05:48<kamnet>But this is my first go-around at patching and compiling openttd
05:52<@Terkhen>kamnet: it looks as if you applied an incomplete cargodist patch which misses the extra files
05:52<kamnet>Ahh. I'll report this back then. Thank you once again!
05:53<@Terkhen>I'm not sure if that has been caused by an incomplete patch or by an incomplete patching by tortoisesvn
05:53<@Terkhen>if you are using MinGW, it is probably simpler to move to the root of the openttd checkout you are compiling and use "patch -p1 -i <patch_file>"
05:53<@Terkhen>I remember reports about tortoisesvn not applying patches correctly before
05:54<kamnet>OK, I'll try that then.
05:55<@Terkhen>remember to revert the subversion repository to its original state before patching again :)
05:55<@Terkhen>bbl
05:59<@peter1138>Pikka, chew
05:59<Pikka>does he
05:59<@peter1138>apparently
05:59<@peter1138>why does proj1000 replace wagon sprites with colour remaps?
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06:01<Pikka>because it can!
06:01<@peter1138>naughty
06:01<Pikka>what should it replace?
06:02<@peter1138>ideally, nothing
06:02<Pikka>where do I put my colour maps then?
06:02<kamnet>Darn, still get the same error win I patch under MinGW. Oh well, I'll wait for feedback on what to try next
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06:03<drac_boy>hi
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06:03<kamnet>Good morning and merry Christmas drac_boy
06:03<@peter1138>well, grm
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06:04<Pikka>have you found the one thing grm is still useful for? :)
06:05<Pikka>I'd say the chances of any grf which uses the original sprites using grm is vanishingly small, though...
06:05<@peter1138>eh?
06:06<drac_boy>thanks kamnet, you too
06:06<Pikka>grm only works iif both conflicting grfs use it?
06:06<@peter1138>no
06:06<@peter1138>grm allocates sprites
06:06<Pikka>hm
06:06<@peter1138>then you have to fuck around getting that reference in the right place :S
06:07<Pikka>yay
06:07<@peter1138>chips uses grm, heh
06:07<@peter1138>i think it's something that's easier with nml though, maybe
06:07<Pikka>where'd this come from, btw? a complaint?
06:07<@peter1138>dbg: [sprite] Tried to load recolour sprite #2735 as a normal sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
06:07<@peter1138>etc etc
06:07*Pikka isn't convinced anything's easier with nml, but each to their own
06:09<@peter1138>dunno, i've never used it
06:09<@peter1138>i have written forms that nfo that nobody uses
06:10<@peter1138>(setting properties for multiple items with 1 action 0)
06:10<Pikka>hm?
06:11<@peter1138>mostly i see 1 action 0 with each property for a single item
06:11<Pikka> 7792 * 28 00 03 01 \b11 30 1F
06:11<Pikka>\w 320 // Zeppelin
06:11<Pikka>\w 768 // Embraer ERJ 145
06:11<Pikka>\w 768 // Boeing 767
06:11<Pikka>\w 256 // British Aerospace BAC1-11
06:11<Pikka>\w 320 // Fokker F100
06:11<Pikka>\w 256 // ATR-72
06:11<Pikka>\w 1600 // Airbus A340
06:11<Pikka>\w 1024 // Airbus A330
06:11<Pikka>\w0
06:11<@peter1138>yes, you do it too :D
06:11<Pikka>\w 640 // Douglas DC-8
06:11<Pikka>\w 160 // deHavilland Dragon Rapide
06:11<Pikka>something like that?
06:11<@peter1138>thanks, i needed all that
06:12<Pikka>I found the shortest example I could :P
06:12<Pikka>well, it wasn't, but shorter ones are less interesting, mostly setting a particular variable to 0 for all IDs :)
06:12<Pikka>-variable +property
06:17<Pikka>peter1138: is this something that, in your opinion, needs addressing? or is it just naughty?
06:19<Pikka>because as you said it might be a bit of a bugger to fix
06:20<Pikka>alternatively, an easy way to create "new" recolour sprites? ;)
06:20<@peter1138>yeah, i see 89 references to AD 8A, and that obviously doesn't include the references to other ranges in there, heh
06:21<@peter1138>it's easy to create them, just difficult to reference them
06:22<Pikka>yes, to reference them :)
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06:24<Pikka>these are the "real world-like" colours, so every vehicle references at least one of the 35 recolour maps...
06:27<drac_boy>hm these wagons that have low sides that are hingled...
06:28<drac_boy>would they had been a flatcar or open wagon?
06:30<Pikka>probably
06:30<drac_boy>yeah but which one tho? :)
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06:42<MNIM>http://imgur.com/gallery/KdG7k Why can't we get that on trains?
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06:55<drac_boy>heh I don't know how to comment on that :)
06:55<drac_boy>I wouldn't had cared for seeing it :)
06:59<Flygon>Wait
07:00<Flygon>that's being painted over?
07:00<Flygon>fuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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07:31<drac_boy>heh heh flygon :)
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07:32<Flygon>It's a brilliant piece of art
07:32<Flygon>And I say that as a cartoonist
07:35<drac_boy>how're you btw?
07:40<Flygon>I'm okay enough
07:40<Flygon>You?
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07:41<drac_boy>doing ok
07:43<frosch123>hmm, sometimes when i look into the screenshot forum, i think i am playing a different game
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07:54<drac_boy>heh frosch123
07:55<frosch123>moin
07:55<drac_boy>how doing?
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10:02<Wolf01>hello
10:03<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01 :)
10:09<drac_boy>hi terkhen and Wolf01 and btw merry xmas? :)
10:09<Wolf01>Sol invictus here :P
10:10<Wolf01>at least for me and some friends of mine
10:11<Wolf01>(Mithraism is accepted too)
10:11<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: is YACD+FIRS even possible?
10:12<SpComb>YACD 2.3 seems to be too old
10:12<Wolf01>I read YOLO 2.3
10:22*SpComb speculates on FIRS support in the upcoming DBSet release
10:22<SpComb>FIRS is great, mind
10:23<SpComb>makes cargo almost as interesting as passenger destinations
10:29*drac_boy still has to work on my cargos a little bit :-s
10:54<drac_boy>any of you think that crude oil should really be turned into refined oil or more of chemical instead?
10:54<drac_boy>(in name of the game)
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11:52*drac_boy shakes many useless lines out of this sheet
11:55<V453000>is there anything by which I can control how do the new sprites in purchase menu look?
11:55<V453000>they look like having gaps before and after them
11:56<V453000>... I already cleaned NUTS up but there are gaps between left border of the window and the sprite, and between the sprite and the text ... any way to change that?
12:00<drac_boy>no idea sorry? :)
12:00<drac_boy>and which of I'm going off now..need a break from this *** tracking table already :->
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12:05<frosch123>V453000: the reference points (x_offs and y_offs) of all sprites are aligned
12:05<frosch123>from there ottd checks the maxium extent to the left and right
12:06<frosch123>V453000: also check whether you disabled the sprite cropping of nml; you might need it :)
12:07<frosch123>(i.e. it should be enabled)
12:07<frosch123>(not sure about the default though)
12:09<V453000>oh
12:09<V453000>where can I find the cropping?
12:09<frosch123> -c crop extraneous transparent blue from real sprites
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12:11<V453000>-c had no effect, now offsets :)
12:12<SpComb>I wonder how effective a strategy e.g. 2x eng-supplies + 6x coal/ironore/scrap and 2x eng-supplies + 6x metal trains are in FIRS
12:13<SpComb>i.e. the same trains ship raw materials to the primary, refined materials to the teritary, and the same trains ship the supplies back
12:13<V453000>just use refit and use full train capacity when needed?
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12:21<V453000>now this is wtf :D frosch123: whatever offset values I add, it always centers the sprites at the same spot
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: if you move the anchor point too far, it moves the sprite to the left of the window, but then not any further
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>(if you talk about the purchase menu)
12:22<V453000>yeha
12:22<V453000>yeah
12:23<frosch123>V453000: you should make sure to have at least one vehicle from another grf (ideally default vehicle) to align your vehicle to
12:23<frosch123>unless you want to annoy everyone mixing sets :p
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>i should probably review the CETS purchase sprites now, the offsets there weren't really right
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>i should also probably offer a special purchase sprite template
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>or pixa-assemble engine+tender
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>for articulated vehicles
12:25<V453000>I just have custom purchase menu sprites, for numbers, assembled vehicles, ..
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but you have no assembling-script either ;)
12:32<frosch123>yeah, i heard he builds junctions himself
12:33<V453000>? :d
12:38<V453000>this offset thing is seriously wtf
12:38<V453000>I will annoy you with it later :) got to run now
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13:28<Eddi|zuHause>http://i.imgur.com/oHBXG.jpg
13:32<frosch123>yeah, "merci" in big letters. but the real message is a bit more hidden :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24852 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-12-25 18:45:18 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 64 changes by chenwt0315
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 14 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 33 changes by telk5093
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15:03<andythenorth>peter1138: chips is nfo btw
15:03<andythenorth>nml !stations
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15:48<drac_boy>hi
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16:00<@peter1138>hm
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16:21<LordAro>hey all
16:21<LordAro>merry Christmas!
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16:33<drac_boy>thanks :)
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16:39<drac_boy>how do NARS manage to replace a wagon with another wagon while still using the same id anyway?
16:40<frosch123>define "another wagon"
16:40<frosch123>just a different livery?
16:40<frosch123>maybe it depends on build date
16:40<@planetmaker>or on the cargo subtype (refit options)
16:41<frosch123>oh, there was something on my todo list for today ...
16:41<drac_boy>frosch123 hm well I only can recall one wagon being in buy list then a few months later its been replaced with something and if I rebuild my train it always seem a bit different (as in more than just livery)
16:42<drac_boy>maybe I can try check again later but I'm pretty sure of it
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: screenshots?
16:42<@planetmaker>drac_boy, livery doesn't need to mean that only colour changes. It can be abused to show a plane instead of a train, if you want it so ;-)
16:42<drac_boy>(and I have to say that is a perfectly good way to MESS UP autoreplace because it doesn't know how to replace same with same even although its not
16:45<@peter1138>hmm, i need a town setting between low and very low :S
16:45<frosch123>enter a custom number
16:48<@planetmaker>random number: 13
16:54<drac_boy>hm the Passenger Car in 1920 is 45t(47t) and 177kph but Passenger Car in 1940 is 28t(30t) and 201kph. but I also recall that in ottd the steam locomotives had same thing, it would be 1200hp/80kph one year then 1600hp/88kph next year and annoyingly the autoreplace window thinks I own the latter when the train dialog clearly shows they're still the old one
16:54<drac_boy>sorry about no screenshot on the passenger car .. the other computer isn't online atm
16:54<frosch123>drac_boy: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Change_vehicle_properties_.2836.29
16:55<frosch123>the stuff in that list can dynamically depend on basically anything
16:55<frosch123>build date, current date, consist composition
16:55<frosch123>cargotype
16:55<frosch123>refit subtype
16:55<drac_boy>oic who really invented some of these without fixing the aspects of games it breaks in first place?
16:55<drac_boy>mm well thanks anyway
16:55<@planetmaker>stats can depend on build date. Or whether the current year is divisible by 17
16:56<frosch123>however, the concept of nars is completely broken if it comes to breakdowns
16:56<@planetmaker>or whether it's sunday
16:56<frosch123>you cannot play nars with breakdowns enables, since the reliability may render entire engie series useless
16:56<drac_boy>you'll had thought the nars grf would come with a patch to force autoreplace to be able to still replace something in-stu
16:57<drac_boy>but anyway thats beyond my topic atm
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>this is truely... german: http://www.abload.de/img/ccf25122012_000029gi1a.jpg :p
16:58<@peter1138>"you will had" what?
16:58<@planetmaker>outch, eddi
16:58<@planetmaker>but dated 1983 :D
16:58<drac_boy>frosch123 I've always played with reduced breakdown. I find normal breakdown level to be a bit too sensitive sometimes
16:59<drac_boy>but even then theres still nothing like a freshly serviced train at 91% leaving depot only to break down on the first tile outside the depot :->
17:00<@planetmaker>aua aua aua... important is also item IV
17:00<frosch123>drac_boy: imo the point of breakdowns is that you can choose engines depending on their reliability
17:01<frosch123>which is the only engine property which is randomised between games
17:01<frosch123>and which can force you to use a different engine than would be optimal given it
17:01<frosch123>s other stats
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'm fairly convinced that it's satirical. but it's truely great :p
17:02<frosch123>but that only works if there are alternative engines
17:02<frosch123>nars has no alternative engines
17:02<@planetmaker>might be, Eddi|zuHause :-) Yes, amazing. And to the point ;-)
17:03<frosch123>"DwBm" ....
17:03<frosch123>that could be a term from the military
17:03<drac_boy>hmm that reminds me I still have to check about livery refit affecting wagon lengths intentionally
17:04*drac_boy goes looking for it now
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: railway and military wasn't really that different :)
17:04<frosch123>2b is definitely fake
17:04<frosch123>i would have believed the rest
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i'm still laughing about 2b :)
17:07<murr4y>baseset = the new data/ dir?
17:07<@peter1138>bah, my raspbmc won't boot right :S
17:07<frosch123>murr4y: not quite
17:08<murr4y>oh
17:08<frosch123>data was split into baseset, newgrf
17:08<frosch123>maybe also ai
17:08<frosch123>(don't know whether they were part of data)
17:09<murr4y>but the open*fx dirs can be put in baseset?
17:09<frosch123>they have to
17:09<murr4y>yeah opensfx is listed under "base sounds set", i guess that means it works
17:10<murr4y>i still don't have any sound but it's probably another issue
17:10<murr4y>frosch123: thanks
17:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24853 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-12-25 22:10:43 UTC)
17:10<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Extend widget data member to 32 bits so that sprite IDs >= 2^16 can be used.
17:10<LordAro>if you can select it in game, there is no issue with OTTD detection
17:11<LordAro>sure your sound levels (in game and out) are set correctly?
17:11<murr4y>well yeah, music works, and "effects volume" is max
17:15<murr4y>i installed timidity for music as the FAQ describes, and that worked for music but not sound
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17:16<LordAro>OpenSFX is selected in game options?
17:17<murr4y>yes
17:17<+glx>are other application sounds play while openttd music is played ?
17:18<murr4y>hm, no
17:18<+glx>so timidity got exclusive rights on the sound device
17:19<murr4y>i guess so. but sounds do not work even if music is disabled
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17:25<murr4y>no ideas what could cause this? i tried 'aoss ./openttd' too, without any luck
17:25<frosch123>check "./openttd --help" and try different sound drivers with "-s"
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17:29<murr4y>thanks, my only options were 'sdl' and 'null', neither worked
17:30<frosch123>hmm, ok, let's start with the easy questions :)
17:30<frosch123>did you select osfx in game options?
17:30<murr4y>yep
17:30<LordAro>already asked that ;)
17:31<frosch123>oh
17:31<murr4y>i'm on arch linux, i've installed packages extra/sdl, extra/sdl_sound, extra/sdl_mixer
17:32<murr4y>on 64bit (openttd-1.2.3-linux-generic-amd64)
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17:34<@planetmaker>wb TB
17:40<murr4y>frosch123 LordAro: in case you want to know, sound worked when run as root. so it is probably related to sdl and permissions
17:40<LordAro>how odd
17:41<murr4y>yeah, thanks for your help though
17:41<LordAro>"[22:25:04] * TrueBrain has quit (Quit: reboot)" <-- planetmaker: he's probably not at-keyboard ;P
17:41<TrueBrain>you automate your reboots?
17:42<frosch123>maybe to reclaim memory leaked by the kernel? :p
17:43<@planetmaker>LordAro, I do believe that the quit message is actually accurate in his case ;-)
17:43-!-rubitita01248 [~satu_sd@17.Red-81-32-147.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd
17:43<rubitita01248>Free sample of the new Carolina Herrera fragance http://www.carolinaherrera.com/212/es/areyouonthelist?share=2zkuHzwOxvy930fvZN7HOVc97XE-GNOL1fzysCqIoynkz4rz3EUUdzs6j6FXsjB4447F-isvxjqkXd4Qey2GHw#teaser
17:43<TrueBrain>lol, OFTC is slow this time of year
17:43<TrueBrain>come on
17:43<TrueBrain>be faster
17:43*LordAro downloads more memory
17:44<TrueBrain>frosch123: in my case it is an IRQ that drops, which causes the disk I/O to come to a halt .. so yeah, something like that :P
17:44<@planetmaker>@kban rubitita01248
17:44<__ln__>just @kb?
17:44<TrueBrain>@kban rubitita01248 byebye spammer
17:44-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~satu_sd@17.Red-81-32-147.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] by DorpsGek
17:44-!-rubitita01248 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [byebye spammer]
17:45<@planetmaker>hm. is a reason needed?
17:45<LordAro>silly planetmaker, you need to tell the spambot why he is being banned :P
17:45<TrueBrain>no, but you do need to authorize to the bot first
17:45<TrueBrain>that is kinda a requirement ;)
17:52<@peter1138>hmm, newgrf scan is much quicker on linux
17:52<@peter1138>admittedly it'll all be cached but even so
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18:05<@planetmaker>you scan the same newgrfs, peter1138 ?
18:05<@planetmaker>the same folder?
18:05<@peter1138>more
18:06<@peter1138>no but i synced them
18:06<@peter1138>so ext4 vs ntfs
18:06<@peter1138>might just be the disk cache being way better on linux
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18:16<KenjiE20>position on disk and fragmentation may play a part too
18:21<@Terkhen>good night
18:22<@peter1138>KenjiE20, shouldn't once it's in the disk cache
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18:28<@peter1138>bah
18:28<@peter1138>FioFindFullPath doesn't quite do what i wanted :S
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18:41<@peter1138>gives me .openttd/content_download/newgrf/...
18:41<@peter1138>even though the stuff is in .openttd/data
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>you sure you got the right file?
18:47<@peter1138>yeah i think it just doesn't understand data/
18:47<@peter1138>it works for .openttd/newgrf/
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so just closing dolphin reduced Xorg's processor usage from 20% to 2%
18:50<@peter1138>heh
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20:45<drac_boy>mmm
20:45*drac_boy still thinks theres a few too many similar locomotives
20:47<drac_boy>at least deciding on the first locomotive being a non-superheated 0-4-0 with small tires wasn't hard
20:47<drac_boy>heh
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20:56<drac_boy>don't know if theres anyone that might know but .. whats probably the earliest diesel locomotive (whether its electric transmission or not) for non-yard duty basically?
20:56<drac_boy>I'm thinking its probably the 1930s but I don't know (and finding things in other langauges isn't my best thing neither)
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: the first were diesel railcars, i presume
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>the first german stand-alone diesel engine was the V140
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>then there was the V188 and the V36 [war-time engines]
21:03<drac_boy>1935, seem like I had been guessing pretty close. thanks for that
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>and post-war there was the V200
21:03<drac_boy>heh V200....
21:03*drac_boy likes these >_<
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: i think diesel railcars were around mid-1920s
21:04<drac_boy>V36 I don't know what to say about it but I have seen it quite a number of times on model layouts based after typical branch lines in germany. especially hauling the thunderbox coaches (so-called for rough ride as far as I have read)
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>or benzol
21:06<drac_boy>and (I had to check to be sure) a few of the V36 also had that 'train observation' dome on their cab roof but I've never seen anyone modifying a model to have one yet
21:06<drac_boy>it looks a little odd maybe but...its at least a bit streamlined rather than just a chunky box
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i have heard about that as well
21:12<drac_boy>about railcars if it was not for the price I would have had been owning a marklin VT11.5 already but heh I'll rather not atm :-p
21:12<drac_boy>trainsets aren't exactly the best thing when you're on a short budget
21:13<drac_boy>at least I can build as many as I want to in dbsetxl grf...its only a computer game :)
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22:52<Eddi|zuHause>top
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23:10<Pikka>shh
23:13<Flygon>http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/extreme-airline-complaints-chinese-passengers-attack-flight-crews-open-plane-doors-20121211-2b6m4.html And you thought LAX was bad
23:19<Flygon>It explains why China are building HSR so insanely agressively, though
---Logclosed Wed Dec 26 00:00:27 2012