--- | Log | opened Fri Dec 28 00:00:30 2012 |
00:16 | <Supercheese> | (more like afk an hour :P ) |
00:48 | <Supercheese> | Wow, this is a weird looking airplane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-72 |
00:52 | <Flygon> | It's the Hunchback of Moscow! |
00:53 | <Flygon> | Also, Supercheese |
00:53 | <Flygon> | They resemble the Seagulls from Age of Empires II |
00:53 | <Supercheese> | Close, but not from AoE2 |
00:53 | <Supercheese> | Although hmm, I should look at those |
00:53 | <Flygon> | I wasn't implying you ripped them :p |
00:54 | <Flygon> | Also, they're larger, and have a lower frame rate. Not really worth ripping |
00:54 | <Flygon> | Unless you feel like accelerating them |
00:54 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] |
00:54 | <Flygon> | Either way, ones you did look snazzy |
00:55 | <Flygon> | ...and OpenTTD totally needs an Age of Empires II graphics set now :p |
00:55 | <Supercheese> | They're modified from a similar game, and yeah |
00:55 | <Supercheese> | AoE2 graphics would be snazzy |
00:55 | <Flygon> | Yep, build a road from Scotland to Britian, and transport Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Raiders! |
00:56 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC674DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] |
00:56 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66EB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
00:56 | <Flygon> | Even cooler would be a I+II set going from 2000BC to 1700AD... |
00:56 | <Flygon> | But OpenTTD doesn't have the ability to go into negative years |
00:56 | <Flygon> | And we'd need new renderings to make post-1700 buildings @_@" |
00:57 | <Flygon> | ...and modifying the engine to make time go much faster @ 2000BC and slower @ around the industrial revolution... |
00:58 | <Flygon> | Point is, Age of Empires shizz looks really pretty, and is coincidentally isometric |
00:58 | <Flygon> | And by coincidence has most of the resources needed for OpenTTD graphics and vehicles :p |
00:59 | <Supercheese> | Indeed |
00:59 | -!- | pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
00:59 | <Flygon> | But, I lack the resources and ambition to make this a thing |
00:59 | -!- | pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] |
00:59 | <Flygon> | Good idea to keep in the backburner, though :) |
00:59 | <Supercheese> | Copyright issues aside :P |
01:01 | <Flygon> | I'll buy a Yate and fly to people's houses to verify they own AoEII :P |
01:47 | <Pikka> | mm bugs |
01:50 | <Pikka> | my class 0 city will not build any residential buildings after the year 2000 :D |
01:51 | <Pikka> | and... that'd be why |
01:51 | <Pikka> | population limit greater than 7FFF is a bad idea :} |
01:53 | <Pikka> | class 1 craps itself at 2050 too... oops :) |
01:53 | -!- | George|2 is now known as George |
01:54 | -!- | George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Excess Flood] |
01:55 | <Pikka> | whoops |
01:55 | -!- | George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd |
02:03 | -!- | Warod [warod@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
02:03 | -!- | Defaulttinen [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
02:34 | -!- | Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd |
03:00 | -!- | Warod [warod@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd |
03:01 | -!- | Defaulttinen [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd |
03:10 | <Supercheese> | Wait, there's a third, unused roadtype? |
03:12 | <Rubidium> | there isn't |
03:12 | <Supercheese> | Just space for it? |
03:12 | <Rubidium> | nope |
03:12 | <Supercheese> | Then what is this old thread getting revived for... |
03:12 | <Supercheese> | :S |
03:13 | <Rubidium> | something that was space for a long time ago |
03:13 | <Supercheese> | since been used? |
03:14 | <Flygon> | Speaking of third roadtypes |
03:14 | <Rubidium> | yep, the 'reserved' space is used by something else |
03:14 | <Flygon> | What'd be really cool is hovering mono or maglev rails that can go above roads |
03:14 | <Flygon> | Will never happen, of course :p |
03:15 | -!- | KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd |
03:15 | <Supercheese> | Just code mono/maglev engines as road vehicles or trams |
03:15 | <Supercheese> | Bob's yer uncle, hovering above roads |
03:15 | <Flygon> | Supercheese: I mean, as an actual railtype |
03:16 | <Flygon> | eg. diagonal running and all |
03:16 | <Supercheese> | That would require diagonal roads first |
03:16 | <Flygon> | ... |
03:16 | <Flygon> | I mean a railtype, that can go over road related tiles |
03:16 | <Supercheese> | ah |
03:16 | <Flygon> | And instead of level crossings |
03:16 | <Flygon> | It's physically seperate |
03:16 | <Supercheese> | I thought you were going for a roadtype |
03:16 | <Flygon> | Nah |
03:18 | <Supercheese> | Elevated monorails, à la Disney? |
03:18 | <Supercheese> | Disneyland/world |
03:22 | <Supercheese> | You'd still have essentially a level crossing, where road traffic is forced to stop |
03:22 | <Supercheese> | unless you build a bridge |
03:23 | <Flygon> | Supercheese: I was thinking more Transrapid or Sydney Monorail. Or The Simpsons. |
03:23 | <Flygon> | But basically... the rails would be like they're ALWAYS a bridge |
03:24 | <Supercheese> | Right |
03:24 | <Flygon> | But also dependant on the land's base height... |
03:24 | <Flygon> | Dunno if that is actually programmable |
03:24 | <Supercheese> | OTTD will still treat the "level crossing" the same way though, irrespective of graphics |
03:24 | <Flygon> | Especially due to having two railtypes in one tile going the same direction... |
03:25 | <Supercheese> | "The [Sydney] Metro Monorail will cease operation in June 2013 and subsequently be pulled down." |
03:25 | <Supercheese> | Thus saith wikipedia |
03:25 | <Flygon> | Sydney monorail is shiiiit |
03:25 | <Flygon> | Excuse my language |
03:25 | <Supercheese> | Apparently rather unprofitable |
03:26 | <Flygon> | It's fares were outragious |
03:26 | <Flygon> | Nobody rode it (except tourists) |
03:26 | <Flygon> | It was an eyesore |
03:26 | <Flygon> | And it was chosen over a much cheaper and cooler looking tram system |
03:26 | <Flygon> | Sydney REALLY wanted Trams back |
03:27 | <Flygon> | Partially because it would have allowed reuse of old rollingstock Sydney used to have, and also newer rollingstock Melbourne has, iirc |
03:27 | <Supercheese> | But monorails are kewl! :P |
03:27 | <Flygon> | Supercheese, remember the monorail episode of The Simpsons? |
03:28 | <__ln__> | yeah, and there's no disneyland on the whole continent, so... |
03:28 | <Flygon> | Sydney's version went a bit like that |
03:28 | <Flygon> | Complete with crashes due to computer failure, in fact |
03:28 | <Supercheese> | No Disney Down Under yet? |
03:28 | <Supercheese> | They should get on that. |
03:28 | <Flygon> | We already have all the Gold Coast theme parks |
03:29 | <Flygon> | Warner Brothers basically kicked out Disney :p |
03:29 | <__ln__> | (at least i assume there isn't, never been down under myself yet) |
03:35 | <Flygon> | ln: Indeed, there is no Disneyland |
03:36 | <@Terkhen> | good morning |
03:41 | -!- | Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd |
03:41 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ |
03:42 | <@Alberth> | moin |
03:42 | <@Terkhen> | hi Alberth :) |
03:50 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd |
03:50 | <Flygon> | Menta |
03:50 | <V453000> | moo |
03:51 | <Pikka> | morning andy et al |
03:51 | <V453000> | bird |
03:53 | <__ln__> | There isn't a Disneyland on Antarctica either, I guess. |
03:59 | -!- | pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-004-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd |
04:01 | <Supercheese> | They should get on that |
04:01 | <Flygon> | __ln__: That's because Australia has mass claimed ownership of Antartica |
04:01 | <Supercheese> | very cheap real estate, I hear |
04:02 | <Flygon> | Well |
04:02 | <Flygon> | It's convenient |
04:03 | <andythenorth> | bonsoir |
04:05 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: export / import industries....good or bad? |
04:05 | <Supercheese> | Oh, I suppose I should make a land-based version of those seagulls |
04:06 | <Supercheese> | currently only water |
04:06 | <Pikka> | good, andy |
04:06 | <Pikka> | I meant to add ports to TaI but never got round to it yet |
04:07 | <Pikka> | I had a go with nocargoal btw... only one of each industry on a 128* map, didn't work. :P |
04:07 | <Pikka> | got to about 60% of 7500 for each cargo |
04:07 | <Pikka> | I guess it's more fun with bigger, more spread out maps |
04:08 | -!- | Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd |
04:12 | -!- | tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
04:12 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ |
04:13 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: for cargo goals, funding primaries is pretty essential |
04:14 | <Pikka> | yeah |
04:15 | <andythenorth> | hmm ports |
04:15 | <andythenorth> | dan has some graphics for them |
04:15 | <andythenorth> | question is, how / where to locate them? |
04:15 | <Supercheese> | Near map edges, presumably |
04:15 | -!- | Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
04:15 | <andythenorth> | and do I need to provide a dry-land version (warehouse) |
04:15 | <andythenorth> | for maps with pathologically low amount of sea |
04:17 | -!- | Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd |
04:18 | -!- | tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-76-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] |
04:18 | <Pikka> | probably not |
04:18 | <Pikka> | of course, there's only so much you can do to prevent your international port generating on a little lake :) |
04:19 | <andythenorth> | fishing harbour has same issue ;) |
04:19 | <Supercheese> | No good way to check if the water has a 'path' to the map edge, eh? |
04:24 | <Supercheese> | So, hmm, if I want this object to be buildable on slopes, do I have to have a ton of different spritelayouts and switch between them based on the value of tile_slope, or is there some way to automagically have the groundsprite be whatever slope it needs to? |
04:25 | <andythenorth> | Supercheese: sounds like a standard routing algorithm problem to me ;) |
04:25 | <Supercheese> | simply using GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL results in flat sprites on slopes, which is Bad™ |
04:25 | <andythenorth> | but I have never implemented one, it's possibly beyond my maths skills, and it's not a newgrf thing |
04:26 | <Supercheese> | perhaps I should try providing no ground sprite at all |
04:26 | <andythenorth> | that _might_ result in a black tile / garbled graphics |
04:26 | <andythenorth> | it does for industries |
04:26 | <Supercheese> | We'll see |
04:28 | <andythenorth> | you might need slope-aware ground |
04:28 | <Supercheese> | Yeah, garbled nonsense |
04:28 | <andythenorth> | possibly terrain aware too |
04:28 | <andythenorth> | this is always fun :P |
04:28 | <Supercheese> | ugh |
04:28 | <Supercheese> | No way to automatically have OTTD take care of that? |
04:29 | <Supercheese> | I just want to have the base ground unchanged and float sprites over it |
04:29 | <andythenorth> | industries and stations can't do that :P |
04:30 | <Supercheese> | but this is an object |
04:30 | <andythenorth> | yeah, I haven't coded objects |
04:30 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker ^ ? |
04:30 | <Supercheese> | hmm |
04:30 | <Supercheese> | I could just limit to water-only |
04:30 | <Supercheese> | solve all my problems |
04:31 | <andythenorth> | ho ho |
04:31 | <Supercheese> | of course people will come a-wanting them over ground nearly instantaneously |
04:31 | <andythenorth> | the pragmatic route ;) |
04:32 | <Pikka> | working out the slope and providing graphics isn't /that/ hard |
04:32 | <Pikka> | particularly if you limit yourself to the four straight slopes :] |
04:32 | <andythenorth> | other new objects have done it |
04:32 | <andythenorth> | i reckon |
04:32 | <Pikka> | I've done it with houses |
04:33 | <Supercheese> | Eh, I know what I'd have to do |
04:33 | <andythenorth> | handling snow / partial snow / desert etc is a bit of faff |
04:33 | <Supercheese> | I'd rather there be a lazy way of course :P |
04:34 | <Supercheese> | Think it's time to dive into the OGFX+ landscape code, they've done pretty much what I want |
04:34 | <Supercheese> | back into* |
04:34 | <Supercheese> | I've already borrowed their animation coding |
04:35 | <Supercheese> | sprite: LOAD_TEMP(var_groundsprite) + slope_to_sprite_offset(nearby_tile_slope(0, 0)); |
04:35 | <Supercheese> | whoah thar |
04:35 | -!- | ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd |
04:36 | <Supercheese> | and a very nasty-looking switch later on |
04:37 | <Supercheese> | although I probably won't need that |
04:37 | <andythenorth> | Supercheese: it's easier than doing it with nfo :) |
04:37 | <andythenorth> | or at least this way you avoid a crash course in masks and shifts ;) |
04:38 | <Supercheese> | no shit, raw hex makes my neurons die painful deaths |
04:38 | <Supercheese> | even commented hex is not much better |
04:39 | <andythenorth> | it's really fine, once you've learnt it |
04:39 | <Supercheese> | I'm exaggerating, yes |
04:40 | <Supercheese> | still, the learning curve for NML is far less steep |
04:40 | <andythenorth> | so |
04:41 | <andythenorth> | could the pathfinder check for a minimum number of connected water tiles? |
04:41 | <andythenorth> | for a newgrf placement check? |
04:42 | <andythenorth> | seems like basic A* or such? |
04:43 | <andythenorth> | could cap it for performance reasons, there is an upper limit beyond which checking is pointless (big enough is big enough) |
04:50 | <Pikka> | you could always build "sensor tiles" as part of the industry, eg channel markers... :P |
04:51 | <andythenorth> | I already use 'magic' water tile 0xFF to ensure clear space |
04:51 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
04:51 | <andythenorth> | maybe I can implement A* or similar in newgrf |
04:51 | <andythenorth> | using the tile checks :o |
04:51 | <Pikka> | good luck :P |
04:52 | <Pikka> | I suppose if it's only doing it during industry placement you don't need to worry too much about performance issues |
04:55 | <andythenorth> | can't decide if ports should be forced to be near map edge or not |
04:56 | <@peter1138> | ports? |
04:56 | <@peter1138> | why near map edge? |
04:57 | <andythenorth> | 'realism' |
04:57 | <andythenorth> | :P |
04:58 | <@peter1138> | eh? |
04:58 | <V453000> | earth has edges? |
04:58 | <V453000> | :P |
04:59 | <Supercheese> | Make it a parameter |
04:59 | <Supercheese> | :P |
04:59 | <@peter1138> | what kind of port are you talking about here? |
05:00 | * | Supercheese puts on his best Italian New York accent |
05:00 | <Supercheese> | 'Impoht / Expoht' |
05:01 | <Supercheese> | 'Impoaht / Expoaht' perhaps is closer :P |
05:01 | <andythenorth> | yeah tha |
05:01 | <andythenorth> | t |
05:02 | <andythenorth> | export cargo 'foo', import cargo 'blah' |
05:03 | -!- | DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] |
05:04 | <V453000> | coal->cow factory? awesome |
05:04 | <Supercheese> | Well, the OGFX+ code works splendidly for detecting slopes, but it seems to have broken my animation |
05:06 | <andythenorth> | export / import is basically a massive cheat for economies where the goal is a low number of industries / cargos |
05:06 | <andythenorth> | it lets me square the circle on some broken chains |
05:06 | <andythenorth> | without unpicking all of FIRS and getting yelled at (again) |
05:08 | <V453000> | ha :( |
05:08 | <V453000> | ¨:) |
05:09 | <andythenorth> | I can also please some rivet counters |
05:09 | <andythenorth> | e.g. UK has aluminium plants, but no bauxite mines |
05:09 | <andythenorth> | so ports work there too |
05:09 | <andythenorth> | in a UK economy |
05:09 | <V453000> | x_x |
05:09 | <V453000> | that looks really weirdly realistic |
05:09 | <V453000> | but lets see what you come up with :) |
05:10 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
05:10 | * | andythenorth ponders European economies |
05:10 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
05:10 | <Pinkbeast> | weirdly: yes, in OTTD-land we are always on a curiously self-sufficient island |
05:10 | <V453000> | laters |
05:10 | <andythenorth> | EU economies driving you away? :P |
05:10 | <andythenorth> | I could do Australia, and include a pikka-factory :P |
05:11 | <andythenorth> | produces: pixels |
05:11 | <Supercheese> | Augh, what broke the animations |
05:11 | <andythenorth> | requires: fuck knows :) |
05:11 | <Supercheese> | Mountain Dew? :P |
05:11 | <andythenorth> | what fuels a pikka? |
05:11 | <Pinkbeast> | BEER? Cheese sandwiches? |
05:11 | <Supercheese> | Beer, yes |
05:11 | <Pikka> | I think a wrap would be good, I will go and make one |
05:12 | <Supercheese> | That's a wrap, folks |
05:12 | <Supercheese> | (couldn't resist) |
05:13 | <andythenorth> | there is plenty of LOL potential in a discussion about EU economies o_O |
05:13 | <Supercheese> | or most any economy, really |
05:13 | <@peter1138> | *almost |
05:13 | <Supercheese> | Please, not that again |
05:14 | -!- | Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
05:14 | <Supercheese> | We've been over this ;) |
05:14 | <@peter1138> | and you still get it wrong :p |
05:14 | <andythenorth> | afaik, Europe's main industry is cheese |
05:14 | <Supercheese> | *sigh* How many dictionaries must I quote |
05:15 | <Supercheese> | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/most |
05:15 | <Supercheese> | http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/most_1?q=most |
05:15 | <andythenorth> | cheese factory: requires milk, produces cheese |
05:15 | <Supercheese> | etc |
05:16 | <andythenorth> | deliver EU subsidy for more production |
05:16 | <andythenorth> | does Europe make any beer of any kind? |
05:16 | <Supercheese> | Most all kinds of beer, I'd expect ;) |
05:17 | * | andythenorth wonders if FIRS needs a whaling station |
05:17 | <Supercheese> | I might have some whale sprites around somewhere |
05:17 | <Supercheese> | I know I have some shark sprites |
05:18 | <@peter1138> | Supercheese, and they all say either unacceptable or "us only" |
05:18 | <@peter1138> | so the word you wanted was almost |
05:18 | <Supercheese> | yeah, no |
05:18 | <andythenorth> | let's try examples |
05:18 | <andythenorth> | "FIRS is almost done" |
05:19 | <andythenorth> | "peter1138 has almost talked himself into doing roadtypes" |
05:19 | <@peter1138> | neither of those are true though :p |
05:19 | <Supercheese> | The shortening of almost to most is most frequent for "almost any" -> "most any" |
05:19 | <andythenorth> | "a spec for newgrf effect vehicles is almost sane" |
05:19 | <andythenorth> | see, the last one can use most |
05:19 | <Supercheese> | "modify the adjectives all, every, and any" |
05:19 | <andythenorth> | "a spec for newgrf effect vehicles is most sane" |
05:19 | <@peter1138> | the shortening of almost to most is most frequent for americans who don't know what it is wrong |
05:20 | <Supercheese> | *facepalm* |
05:20 | <Supercheese> | "First Known Use: circa 1584" |
05:20 | <Supercheese> | I don't think our country was even around then |
05:20 | <Supercheese> | last book I read said it wasn't anyhow ;) |
05:20 | <@peter1138> | thy arst thou correcteth |
05:21 | <Supercheese> | verily |
05:21 | <@peter1138> | and ye olde shoppe of course |
05:22 | <Supercheese> | forsooth |
05:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "thy" sounds grammatically wrong in this place :) |
05:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and who ever got the idea to use "y" for "th"? |
05:23 | <andythenorth> | you should all have a baby to hold |
05:23 | <andythenorth> | like me |
05:23 | <andythenorth> | that would improve your morning |
05:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the typical morning at 11:30 AM? :) |
05:24 | <@peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause, þ |
05:24 | <Pinkbeast> | Assuming your morning has insufficient nappies in it |
05:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: yes, i know that character :) |
05:25 | <Supercheese> | anyway, I should sleep |
05:25 | <@peter1138> | Medieval printing presses did not contain the letter thorn, so the letter y was substituted |
05:25 | <@peter1138> | obvisously |
05:25 | <Supercheese> | I'll figure out why the animation broke later |
05:25 | <andythenorth> | poor unicode compatibility |
05:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: so why does nobody then spell "thy" as "yy"? :p |
05:25 | <Supercheese> | I could do that... most any time |
05:25 | -!- | Supercheese was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [almost] |
05:27 | <@peter1138> | wot no autojoin :p |
05:27 | <andythenorth> | most harsh |
05:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | autojoin is most evil :p |
05:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i think you offended him, he even left the server :/ |
05:28 | <@peter1138> | o_O |
05:28 | <andythenorth> | so...checking the number of connected water tiles from newgrf? |
05:30 | <andythenorth> | the purpose being to avoid building water-based industries in teeny-tiny lakes |
05:31 | <@peter1138> | is it possible? |
05:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: so which part of that was the question? |
05:42 | <@peter1138> | ok, do i build lots of independent rail lines or one big network? |
05:42 | <@peter1138> | and... do i build "realistic" rail junctions or just have lines connect up willynilly? |
05:43 | <Pikka> | yes, peter1138 |
05:44 | <Pinkbeast> | Don't just build one line per connection because then it gets really dull |
05:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i concur, Pikka |
05:45 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
05:49 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd |
05:50 | <@peter1138> | gah, this station-name-from-nearby-industry thing is kinda annoying |
05:50 | <@peter1138> | built a station in a town |
05:50 | <@peter1138> | and it's name "town grocer's shop" |
05:50 | <@peter1138> | +d |
05:52 | <Pinkbeast> | On the other hand, don't build a complex network because you can't manage fast+slow on the mainline effectively |
05:53 | -!- | ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd |
05:53 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ohi |
05:53 | <@peter1138> | silly biggui |
05:53 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | taking another look on that terkhen format for scns |
05:54 | <@peter1138> | uses railway bridge previews when building road bridges |
05:54 | <@Terkhen> | :P |
05:54 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | why is alpine/snow not a climate layer palet? |
05:54 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
05:54 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: other people find the names annoying, it _might_ be a valid parameter option |
05:54 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | default, desert, rainforest |
05:54 | <andythenorth> | how much do you care? |
05:54 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | why is alpine/snow not part of it? |
05:54 | <@Terkhen> | ZxBiohazardZx: because you cannot modify snow except by changing the snow line height |
05:54 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, is it firs doing that or openttd though? |
05:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: snow isn't stored on the map, it's calculated based on height |
05:55 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | Terkhen then snow is available in ALL types? |
05:55 | <@Terkhen> | ZxBiohazardZx: no, only in the subartic climate |
05:55 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | would it be hard to change that into all climates based on height/setting |
05:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, it would. |
05:55 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | with default having infinite high level so it never shows? |
05:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | k |
05:56 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: yes |
05:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | also i dont get how the format is lose from newgrf adding after creation |
05:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the morning of helpful answers :p |
05:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | if you define city/towns, the newgrfs will (majorly) affect them ? |
05:57 | <@Terkhen> | ZxBiohazardZx: the whole point of the format is being NewGRF independent |
05:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: by exporting and reimporting as heightmap |
05:57 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, i like the naming but i prefer it to just take the normal name if it's in the town radius |
05:57 | <@Terkhen> | in the scenario format, towns are only defined by their position and number of houses |
05:57 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ah ok Terkhen, thats great |
05:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: you will lose some details, but not all |
05:57 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd |
05:57 | <@peter1138> | also, both the 1, 2, and 4 horse carriages have 10hp :S |
05:57 | <drac_boy> | hi |
05:57 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i keep running into stupid issues porting my scenarios over to multiple newgrfsets |
05:57 | <@peter1138> | both? |
05:57 | <@Terkhen> | if you change your town NewGRF, you will get the same town in the same place with the same number of houses, but it will be different |
05:57 | <@peter1138> | o_O |
05:57 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i usually just hack them and play with modified grfs |
05:57 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: sounds like an ottd option to ignore industry prop 24? |
05:57 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | works fine 99/100 times :P |
05:58 | <@Terkhen> | ZxBiohazardZx: yes, we want to solve this issue for scenario authors :) |
05:58 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | :) |
05:58 | <Pinkbeast> | peter: RV power has a too-large quantum for horse-drawn vehicles to have sensible power. :-/ |
05:58 | -!- | Pixa [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd |
05:58 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | stupid newGRFs and their insane linking in the core |
05:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: it was worse when it called the station "... Mine" when it was near a recycling place |
05:59 | <andythenorth> | if I don't set prop 24, what happens? |
05:59 | <andythenorth> | it uses the industry type or something? |
05:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: it uses the default method, "mine" for extractive, "forest" for organic, nothing for the rest, or somesuch |
06:00 | <@Terkhen> | ZxBiohazardZx: I'm slowly progressing on it... I'm not sure if I will finish it in time for the 1.3.0 release, though |
06:00 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | so that brings me to the next question Terkhen did you even start on it?:P |
06:00 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | darn |
06:00 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you answered the question before i even asked it :| |
06:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | Eddi is right, it is the morning of helpful answers :P |
06:01 | <@Terkhen> | in the worst case I could always release a patched 1.3.0 version that allows you to convert a scn to extended heightmap, and then back to scn with different NewGRFs |
06:01 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
06:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | im cool with that |
06:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i currently just exploit the "allow modified grfs" setting alot :) |
06:02 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | works personally just fine |
06:02 | <@Terkhen> | I'm still hoping to have it done for 1.3.0, though :P |
06:02 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | just starts to become a biatch when you want to share a "perfect combo" |
06:02 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | fair enough |
06:02 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i also had another question |
06:02 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | but i forgot it :P |
06:03 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | is there a (crappy or not) patch for cbh on forums that you guys know of? |
06:03 | <andythenorth> | cbh? |
06:03 | <Pikka> | can't be helped |
06:04 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | searching CBH or custom bridge heads results in 10.000 threads that are not helpfull in any way |
06:04 | <@Terkhen> | an ancient, not complete patch from 5 years ago IIRC |
06:04 | <@Terkhen> | that patch wouldn't be helpful either |
06:04 | <@Terkhen> | it needs... new map array :D |
06:04 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ill take that as a no then |
06:04 | <@peter1138> | no it doesn't |
06:04 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | how did ttdp do it? |
06:04 | <@Terkhen> | or maybe not, I don't remember the specifics for that feature |
06:04 | <@peter1138> | just needs to be written in a way that works ;p |
06:04 | <@Terkhen> | oh, ok :) |
06:04 | <Pikka> | peter1138: HOVS2 will come with a special feature to solve that problem |
06:04 | <Pikka> | no horses :) |
06:05 | <@peter1138> | HOVS... good times |
06:05 | <andythenorth> | +1 |
06:05 | <@peter1138> | but then you never finished it :p |
06:05 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | so CBH/rail over tunnel entrance is far from there (both somehow are working in ttdp) XD |
06:05 | <andythenorth> | HOVDIT |
06:05 | <@peter1138> | i finished CBH but it never got committed |
06:05 | <Pikka> | I restarted it, peter1138 |
06:05 | <andythenorth> | I cba to do BANDIT either :P |
06:05 | <@peter1138> | yeah i know |
06:05 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 ofc you did :P |
06:05 | <andythenorth> | RVs are too crappy |
06:05 | <andythenorth> | they're all wrong |
06:05 | <Pikka> | one vehicle drawn, 38 to go |
06:05 | <@peter1138> | woot |
06:06 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 why not share that work you did on CBH |
06:06 | <@peter1138> | erm |
06:06 | <@peter1138> | why? |
06:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: if you want to update a patch based on r3000 ;) |
06:07 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: send me your sprites, I'll send you my codes |
06:07 | <Pikka> | eh, the codes is the easy bit :} |
06:07 | <andythenorth> | :P |
06:07 | <andythenorth> | fricking set design is the hard bit :P |
06:07 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 cause i think cbh is an awesome feature in ttdp specially for scenariobuilding |
06:07 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | it allows more dense city/roadlayouts |
06:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | code writes itself, obviously |
06:08 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ofc it does |
06:08 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you hire gnomes that write it for you! |
06:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i mean that literally... |
06:09 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ? |
06:09 | <andythenorth> | I am one ahead |
06:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a script of ~300 lines writing ~30000 lines of code |
06:09 | <andythenorth> | my graphics draw themselves too |
06:10 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | lol nice Eddi |
06:10 | <andythenorth> | what's annoying is that the set doesn't design itself |
06:10 | <andythenorth> | maybe we just make a 'set designing script' |
06:10 | <andythenorth> | and then let AIs play test versions |
06:10 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
06:10 | <andythenorth> | something will emerge as winner |
06:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: genetic newgrfs!! |
06:10 | <@peter1138> | ZxBiohazardZx, i did it 6 years ago, it won't apply |
06:11 | <andythenorth> | +1 to genetic newgrfs |
06:11 | <andythenorth> | creativity is over-rated, just iterate |
06:12 | <drac_boy> | heh heh |
06:12 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 meh ok so pretty much idea exists, just no code for it |
06:12 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | fine |
06:13 | * | andythenorth ponders an insurrection |
06:13 | <andythenorth> | against autorefit |
06:13 | <drac_boy> | why andythenorth? |
06:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: there exists another patch, which is only like 5 years old |
06:14 | <andythenorth> | nah...I've whined about autorefit enough here |
06:14 | <@peter1138> | celestar's attempt |
06:15 | <@peter1138> | my version actually worked but got made obsolete |
06:15 | <Rubidium> | it's all Celestar's fault ;) |
06:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it should be in the SVN |
06:15 | <andythenorth> | so frosch has convinced me that newgrf effect vehicles would be a Good Thing |
06:15 | <@peter1138> | Rubidium, tron ;) |
06:15 | <andythenorth> | featuring spritegroups for using n realsprites |
06:16 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | Eddi 5 years, 6 years, both are ancient |
06:16 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | to much shit happened between and you know that just as much as i do |
06:16 | <andythenorth> | using spritegroups for effect vehicles would handle cases like ships with 4 funnels |
06:17 | <Rubidium> | @commit 9109 |
06:17 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: Commit by celestar :: r9109 /branches/custombridgeheads/src (3 files) (2007-03-11 09:28:58 UTC) |
06:17 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: [cbh] -Fix: Stabilize the reversing of trains on bridges/bridgeheads a little (it still crashes at times however). Also re-allow the construction of signals on bridgeheads |
06:17 | <Rubidium> | it seems closer to 6 years old ;) |
06:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | still, about 1 year younger than peter1138's patch :) |
06:18 | <@peter1138> | yeah mine is nearly 7 years ago |
06:18 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ugh |
06:18 | <@peter1138> | although that was later versions, dunno when i started it |
06:18 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you all know that thats ancient |
06:19 | <andythenorth> | for sanity, newgrf effect vehicles might not get VA 2, just an animation rate and a set of frames to step through (or VA 2 with just one var: animation frame) |
06:19 | <@peter1138> | they'd get VA2 |
06:20 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | and you both prolly had valid reasons to stop updating the CBH patches you made |
06:20 | <@peter1138> | there are global variables that all features get access to |
06:21 | <andythenorth> | hmmm |
06:21 | <andythenorth> | change smoke based on date :P |
06:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: there is also this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50283 |
06:22 | <andythenorth> | alllows newgrfs to reflect introduction of emissions control laws :P |
06:23 | <andythenorth> | puzzled about how to control generation of effect vehicles though |
06:24 | <andythenorth> | newgrf shouldn't be doing that on every tick, that's bonkers |
06:24 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | hmmz |
06:25 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | Hackalittlebit did get "signals on bridges and tunnels" implemented in a ugly hacky way :P |
06:25 | <andythenorth> | I'm -1 on signals for tunnels / bridges |
06:26 | * | Pinkbeast lifts an eyebrow |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | why bother? |
06:26 | <Rubidium> | with the current map array signals on bridges/tunnels are mutually exclusive with cbh/cte |
06:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: that has pretty much nothing to do with this, though |
06:27 | <Emmy-Eviltwin> | what's in a name, eh |
06:27 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | true eddi, but afaik that link you posted is a similar implementation |
06:27 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | aka the highly disliked "hack" |
06:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: it is not. |
06:27 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | and i personally have alot of likes on signals in bridge/tunnels |
06:27 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | or multiple trains on bridge/tunnel :P |
06:28 | <Emmy-Eviltwin> | wait, we once had signals on bridge heads? |
06:28 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | allows you to build longer bridges /tunnels without insane jams |
06:28 | <andythenorth> | or just build shorter ones |
06:28 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | sometimes that isnt an option |
06:28 | <Pinkbeast> | Awkward when some miscreant has put their huge town in the way |
06:29 | <Emmy-Eviltwin> | that works if you only want to cross sea or something like that |
06:29 | <Emmy-Eviltwin> | but not if you want to cross a huge valley or tunnel underneath a large town |
06:29 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | crossing the sea, crossing a valley, tunneling under a long mountainside or even underneath a town |
06:29 | <@peter1138> | i implemented signals on custom bridge heads i think, been a while |
06:29 | <Pinkbeast> | Couldn't the signals be a property of the wormhole keeping them out of the map array |
06:29 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you cant always make a 3-long tunnel and then exclavate a hole just for signalling |
06:29 | <andythenorth> | meh |
06:30 | * | andythenorth stops arguing against vapourware features that no-one is working on anyway ;) |
06:30 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | its the reason chrills patchpack is popular |
06:30 | <@peter1138> | is it? |
06:30 | <@peter1138> | never used it |
06:30 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | signals on bridge/tunnels, cargodist/paxdest and some other features |
06:31 | <andythenorth> | how do you know it's popular? |
06:31 | * | drac_boy always uses more than one tunnel if its high traffic anyway |
06:31 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | # of downloads |
06:31 | <drac_boy> | thats what the advanced signals are for |
06:31 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | im not willing to place 8-10 tunnels if i can do with 1 that contains hacky signalling |
06:33 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | that aside |
06:33 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | mainly was wondering about that scenario /extended heightmap thingy of Terkhen |
06:33 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | and ofc dreaming about cbh, but yeah |
06:34 | <@peter1138> | learn to code ;) |
06:34 | -!- | |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E167.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd |
06:34 | -!- | Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d822738.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd |
06:35 | <andythenorth> | or learn to dream things other people are prepared to code |
06:35 | <andythenorth> | not easy ;) |
06:35 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 yeah i know :) |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i can do some minor bullshit |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | but im not doing computer/software engineering |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | all i did was a minor |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | that only involved java and some opengl |
06:36 | <@peter1138> | a minor? |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | major-minor |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | bachelor programme |
06:36 | <@peter1138> | i see |
06:36 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | 30 ECTS worth of software engineering |
06:37 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | in my civil engineering degree |
06:37 | <@peter1138> | you know you don't need degrees to program, right? |
06:37 | <Pinkbeast> | Since we all know what an ECTS is we are now enlightened. :-) |
06:37 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i know |
06:37 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ECTS = European Credit Transfer System |
06:37 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | its the study-points-measurement in europe, 1 ECTS = 28hours roughly |
06:37 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | anyway |
06:37 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i know i dont need a degree for it |
06:38 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i just never got around to learn C/c++ apart from reading some openttd and worldofwarcraft emulation codes |
06:38 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | and doing minor edits to them |
06:38 | <Pinkbeast> | Errr well I'm in Europe and it's news to me (also, aren't "minors" in "bachelor programmes" American terminology? It is a mystery.) |
06:38 | <@peter1138> | well guess were most of us learnt c/c++ from... |
06:38 | <@peter1138> | *where |
06:38 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i guess self taught |
06:39 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | as most hobbyprogrammers do |
06:39 | <Pinkbeast> | Hack 1.0.3 :-) |
06:39 | <@peter1138> | self learnt from... delving into openttd |
06:39 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you did? |
06:39 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | lolz |
06:39 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you jumped into openttd with 0.0 skill/experience? |
06:39 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | then you learned ALOT of C/Cpp lolz |
06:39 | <@peter1138> | no, no 0.0 |
06:40 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you cant learn just by reading or altering existing code |
06:40 | <@peter1138> | really |
06:40 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | so you knew some shit before you started :P |
06:40 | <@peter1138> | you can |
06:40 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | copy paste only gets you so far |
06:40 | <Pinkbeast> | I knew no C at all before seeing the Hack source. |
06:40 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i learned that on TC already |
06:40 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
06:40 | <@peter1138> | *sigh* |
06:40 | <Pinkbeast> | ... there's no rule against digging up a copy of K&R while you're doing it |
06:41 | <@peter1138> | take Belugas, he is a delphi programmer |
06:41 | <@peter1138> | knew nothing of c/c++ |
06:41 | <@peter1138> | didn't stop him |
06:41 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | your a programmer, regardless of you language, some methodics are the same |
06:41 | <@Terkhen> | I started with copy paste too, knowing basic C++ only |
06:41 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | you all have variables, functions basic knowledge |
06:41 | <@peter1138> | yup, born a programmer |
06:41 | <Flygon> | I started with 68k ASM |
06:41 | <Flygon> | Then AviSynth |
06:41 | <Flygon> | Then I gave up programming :p |
06:41 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | the only reason i got through java was because i had a book and all the answers where copy/paste from some sheets |
06:42 | <Pinkbeast> | In particular a large program like OTTD (or Hack/ NetHack) often has a fairly clear internal structure where you don't need to know much of the language to change the game logic |
06:42 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i gave the suggestion of putting screenshots in a screenshots dir a go |
06:42 | <@peter1138> | i wouldn't say clear, in ottd's case :) |
06:42 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | with only errors as result |
06:42 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i only once got a patch in ottd |
06:42 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | but that was because the change was idiotly easy |
06:42 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | and only involved changing a calculation around, not writing a feature from scrap |
06:43 | <Pinkbeast> | peter: Compared to a pre-ANSI-C roguelike in '88? OK, there's some deep magic in places, but it's not too bad. |
06:43 | <@peter1138> | heh |
06:43 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=62942 |
06:46 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i gave it a try by copy pasting similar code but ofc it didnt work :P |
06:48 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | r24866 is current head right? |
06:48 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
06:49 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | or is git not following svn anymore |
06:49 | <Pinkbeast> | I'm not sure that muddling through by examining the current code must imply a complete aversion to the use of Google |
06:49 | <andythenorth> | ZxBiohazardZx: so you can do partial differential equations, and eigenvectors, and finite element analysis, and static analysis of the moments of a truss bridge under load, and calculate the tensile strength of a piece of rebar, and the time it should take concrete to dry |
06:49 | <andythenorth> | but you can't program :o |
06:49 | <andythenorth> | programming is *easy* |
06:50 | <andythenorth> | civil engineering is hard |
06:50 | * | andythenorth quit civil engineering |
06:50 | <Pinkbeast> | And leads to much more comedy when done wrong |
06:50 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | yes i can andy |
06:50 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | well i hate partial DE's and finite element analysis is not my cup of tea either |
06:51 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | but i at least passed those subjects |
06:51 | <andythenorth> | I pretty much failed eng. maths |
06:51 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | as for concrete it takes 28 days to reach its final strenght unless you use some weird setup |
06:51 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | haha |
06:51 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | dont start about it, my eng maths are my only resit subjects :( |
06:51 | <andythenorth> | and yet I have patches in openttd :P |
06:51 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | still have to do 2 :( |
06:51 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | yeah yeah |
06:52 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | is 24866 head? |
06:52 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | or ? |
06:52 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ill try the screenshot dir implementation again |
06:52 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | as that was another pain in my ass earlier |
06:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ZxBiohazardZx: i thought that was already implemented...? |
06:54 | -!- | oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
06:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | Eddi not that i know of :| |
06:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | it was suggested, not actually implemented afaik |
06:56 | <andythenorth> | so what production mechanic for port industries? |
06:56 | <andythenorth> | always produce? |
06:56 | <@peter1138> | it is implemented |
06:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | i gave it a very crappy try |
06:56 | <andythenorth> | only produce when something delivered? |
06:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: as primary industry |
06:56 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 what rev added it? |
06:56 | <@peter1138> | no idea |
06:57 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | for i dont see it |
06:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: potentially using the export cargos as booster |
06:57 | <Rubidium> | ZxBiohazardZx: svn info svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk |
06:57 | <@peter1138> | 24804 |
06:57 | <@peter1138> | 9th dec 2012 |
06:57 | * | andythenorth considers using gradual processing for once (aka stockpiling) |
06:57 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | peter1138 thats not in 1.2.3 stable? |
06:58 | <@peter1138> | no |
06:58 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
06:58 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | hmmz that might explain |
06:59 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | anyway great! :) |
07:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | blegh it needed mroe lines then i wrote :P |
07:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | has some similarities though:P |
07:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | they always do :p |
07:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | yeah yeah |
07:01 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | mine gave errros thus i forgot something |
07:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "hey, daylength is a one-line patch" |
07:02 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | my fios.cpp is bad, his actually adds the search :P |
07:04 | <@peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause, tee hee |
07:06 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | does r24806 need dutch translation? |
07:07 | <Rubidium> | it should already have one |
07:08 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ah didnt see it but fine |
07:08 | <@Terkhen> | http://translator.openttd.org/en/status <-- dutch seems to be at 100% |
07:09 | -!- | Jeroen [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd |
07:09 | -!- | Jeroen is now known as Guest2832 |
07:10 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | its kinda literal but it works |
07:10 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | STR_WARNING_SCREENSHOT_SIZE_MESSAGE :{YELLOW}De schermafdruk heeft een resolutie van {COMMA} x {COMMA} pixels. De schermafdruk maken kan even duren. Verder gaan? |
07:11 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ...pixels. Het maken van de schermafdruk kan even duren.... sounds more logical to myself |
07:12 | <@Alberth> | become a translator yourself, and improve :) |
07:12 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | not sure why, the one selected is fine XD |
07:12 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | true |
07:14 | -!- | ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you] |
07:15 | -!- | |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E167.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
07:18 | <Pikka> | only for once, andythenorth? |
07:19 | <andythenorth> | think most of FIRS processes on arrival at industry |
07:19 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
07:19 | <andythenorth> | doing it literally once would be interesting |
07:19 | <andythenorth> | a single-use industry |
07:22 | <andythenorth> | fruit as an imported cargo for Arctic? |
07:22 | -!- | Guest2832 [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
07:22 | <andythenorth> | or a bit wrong really? |
07:22 | -!- | Jerre [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd |
07:30 | <andythenorth> | ho |
07:31 | <andythenorth> | can clay be mined in Arctic o_O |
07:31 | * | andythenorth proposes no |
07:33 | <drac_boy> | clay? it has to come from under the ground .. which is frozen anyway? :) |
07:33 | <drac_boy> | heh heh |
07:37 | <drac_boy> | hmm what to call a grf that is more than just trains? |
07:37 | <drac_boy> | "gameset grf" or what?? :-s |
07:38 | <andythenorth> | drac.grf |
07:42 | <andythenorth> | bad Eddi|zuHause - villages as industries :) |
07:42 | <drac_boy> | that doesn't help andythenorth :P |
07:42 | <@Terkhen> | andythenorth: only in summer! |
07:45 | -!- | oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
07:46 | <andythenorth> | maybe I put furniture factory back into Arctic Basic |
07:46 | <andythenorth> | IKEA has to make all that crap somewhere |
07:46 | <@Terkhen> | don't they make it in china like everyone else? |
07:47 | <andythenorth> | not sure :) |
07:47 | <andythenorth> | China has sub-arctic regions too though :) |
07:48 | <andythenorth> | I have timber (cut wood) as an export cargo, also considering alcohol, petrol, chemicals or goods |
07:48 | <andythenorth> | probably alcohol and petrol |
07:49 | -!- | Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
07:50 | -!- | Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd |
07:53 | -!- | oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
07:54 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
07:58 | <@peter1138> | remember when people used cdrom drives to play audio cds? |
07:59 | <oskari89> | Yes, and there was separate cable between CD-rom drive and sound card :D |
07:59 | <oskari89> | For that purpose |
07:59 | -!- | Emmy-Eviltwin is now known as MNIM |
08:00 | <MNIM> | wtf. |
08:00 | <MNIM> | stupid windows xchat |
08:00 | * | MNIM bashes. |
08:00 | -!- | oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
08:00 | <MNIM> | why did I only notice that now? |
08:02 | <@peter1138> | yeah |
08:02 | <@peter1138> | don't think my soundcards have connectors for that :S |
08:02 | <MNIM> | I had an audiojack in my cd drive. |
08:03 | <@peter1138> | i suppose everyone just downloads from itunes or something these days |
08:03 | <Pikka> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=42562&p=1058930#p1058930 |
08:03 | -!- | Jerre [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
08:03 | <Pinkbeast> | It's a DVD drive, but I've still got such a setup |
08:03 | <@peter1138> | work on TaI? surely not! |
08:04 | <drac_boy> | oskari89 that was only because audio couldn't be routed through the non-dma ata cables at the time |
08:04 | <drac_boy> | but mm |
08:04 | <oskari89> | Yeps |
08:04 | <@peter1138> | it still isn't |
08:04 | <oskari89> | Pikka: That's a nice one :) |
08:05 | <drac_boy> | udma/33 kinda made it reducent but some drives still choosed to do it that way tho |
08:06 | <oskari89> | That's kind of hypnotic gif |
08:06 | <@peter1138> | originally reading CDDA was not well supported |
08:06 | <@peter1138> | nothing to do with UDMA |
08:09 | <@peter1138> | and it's still more efficient to get the drive to play back the audio |
08:11 | <Pinkbeast> | Urrr. I might rather take that processing out of the drive and have it in the CPU where I can use it for other things when I'm not playing a CD. |
08:12 | <@peter1138> | it's a tiny part of the already existing processing capabilities of the drive |
08:12 | <@peter1138> | which is not general purpose |
08:13 | <Pinkbeast> | In that case is it then a significant part of the CPU? # The usual cycle of reincarnation stuff suggests it can plausibly be done either way |
08:14 | <@peter1138> | significantly more |
08:15 | <@peter1138> | it involves cpu time, memory, memory bandwidth, pci(e) bus bandwidth, sending/receiving ATA commands/data, audio dma, etc etc |
08:16 | <@peter1138> | versus getting a cd player to do what a cd player was designed to do |
08:16 | <Pinkbeast> | ... plus having the stuff in the CD player to do it |
08:17 | * | drac_boy thinks peter1138 is overstating it a lot |
08:18 | <Pinkbeast> | ... in particular, I suspect the bandwidth in both cases is about diddly squat |
08:19 | <drac_boy> | pinkbeast yeah its only a few kb per sec which is nothing to pci (and even less to any form of pcie) |
08:19 | <@peter1138> | 176KB/s |
08:20 | <@peter1138> | not much but still requires processing |
08:20 | -!- | valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd |
08:20 | <drac_boy> | thats too high |
08:20 | <@peter1138> | too high? |
08:20 | <@peter1138> | that's just the raw data |
08:20 | <drac_boy> | then how do you compress 176 into 150 even less with overhead? |
08:20 | <@peter1138> | where do you get 150 from? |
08:21 | <Pinkbeast> | Errr well it wouldn't be compression if it didn't make things smaller |
08:21 | <@peter1138> | what compression? :S |
08:21 | <Pinkbeast> | I assume drac means "this compressed audio format can be done at 150KB/s", but I'm guessing |
08:21 | <drac_boy> | 150 is the cd rate :p |
08:21 | <drac_boy> | and as far as I know non-computer audio drives have always been 1x still |
08:21 | <@peter1138> | 150KB/s is single speed rate for DATA |
08:22 | <@peter1138> | data has additional overhead to ensure data integrity |
08:22 | <@peter1138> | audio uses a different scheme |
08:22 | <Pinkbeast> | 176 seems a factor of 2 too high. |
08:22 | <drac_boy> | Pinkbeast yeah that makes two of us |
08:22 | <Pinkbeast> | Ah, but memory bandwidth, yes. |
08:22 | <@peter1138> | partly why early drives didn't support CDDA over the data interface, the on-disc format is different |
08:22 | <@peter1138> | 44100 * 2 * 2 = 176400 bytes/second |
08:23 | <@peter1138> | unless you're listening to mono or 8 bit CDs (which didn't exist) |
08:23 | <Pinkbeast> | Do us a favour and say where the other *2 comes from |
08:23 | <drac_boy> | the funny thing is I could find circuits for a simple 8mhz cdrom players .. and they never have any external memory at all |
08:23 | <@peter1138> | *2 = stereo |
08:23 | <@peter1138> | *2 = 16bit audio |
08:23 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, exactly, they don't need it |
08:23 | -!- | Lappro [~Bubovi@ip54551278.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd |
08:23 | <drac_boy> | peter1138 so why do you talk about memory bandwidth if it doesn't exist? |
08:24 | <Pinkbeast> | stereo: bingo, you're right. |
08:24 | <Lappro> | good afternoon |
08:24 | <drac_boy> | hi Lappro |
08:24 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, memory IS used if you use your CPU to play back the audio |
08:24 | <drac_boy> | peter1138 the 8mhz cpu IS PLAYING IT, thats why |
08:24 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: wot, no country house :O |
08:24 | <drac_boy> | how're you Lappro? (and btw its morning here ;) ) |
08:24 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, go back to the start please |
08:24 | <Pikka> | I haven't drawn them yet |
08:25 | <Pikka> | and they won't be in cities anyway, only villages :P |
08:25 | <Lappro> | im good, when it´s holiday it is always better :P you? |
08:25 | <andythenorth> | hey look! A town in 1890 that isn't all theatres |
08:25 | <drac_boy> | pikka heh that would be a zone 0 only house right? |
08:25 | <andythenorth> | seriously, the answer to the theatre bug should not be 'fix it in newgrf' |
08:25 | * | drac_boy is slowly understanding the town zone thing I think |
08:25 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, that was the whole argument, it's more efficient to have the cd drive play back the audio instead of getting the computer's cpu to handle it |
08:25 | <Pinkbeast> | But that is ~ 1/1000 of the capacity of a PCI bus. :-) |
08:26 | <@peter1138> | Pinkbeast, pci has latency, and it can't do multiple things concurrently |
08:26 | <Pikka> | why not, andy? |
08:26 | <drac_boy> | peter1138 point is you complain about memory use, etc when I'm pointing out that it only needs a 8mhz cpu with no memory to be able to play the audio....meaning pci/etc does not matter |
08:26 | <Pikka> | you don't have vehicles in 1890 without newgrfs, after all :) |
08:26 | <andythenorth> | ach fair point |
08:26 | <andythenorth> | conceded |
08:26 | <Pinkbeast> | drac: But I think peter's contention is that the overheads associated with sending it through the machine's CPU is high |
08:26 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth yeah you'll have to start at 1950+ to get any of the original vehicles I think |
08:27 | <Pinkbeast> | *are high, bother |
08:27 | <Lappro> | btw, does anyone have an estimate what a Raspberry Pi 2nd rev. (512MB ram) could run as a dedicated openttd server? |
08:27 | <drac_boy> | Lappro for a headless server I don't see why it wouldn't work ... providing you don't use super-big maps perhaps |
08:27 | -!- | plkiller [d54335fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
08:27 | <plkiller> | hello |
08:28 | <Lappro> | but what is the max capacity? how many users will it accept simulateously? |
08:28 | <drac_boy> | Lappro theres too many factors but one of the few major ones is the size of the map to populate |
08:28 | <andythenorth> | herp, paper mill could produce paper instead of goods |
08:28 | <Lappro> | ok |
08:28 | <drac_boy> | number of players does not matter btw |
08:28 | <andythenorth> | controversial? |
08:29 | <Lappro> | oh ok thx for the info |
08:29 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth it depends .. "simple" is forest>papermill>town .. "advanced" is forest>papermill>printer>town |
08:29 | <Lappro> | ill test it with different sizes then (when it is finished compiling) |
08:29 | <drac_boy> | for lack of words |
08:29 | <drac_boy> | the printer thing ironically exists in default arctic climate atm as far as I recall |
08:29 | <Pikka> | it's not that ironic |
08:30 | <Pinkbeast> | Printers in Simutrans which makes for a complicated chain with printer's ink and all |
08:30 | <andythenorth> | given that I'm making a FIRS Arctic Basic |
08:30 | <drac_boy> | Pinkbeast really? I never noticed that .. which pak did it come from? |
08:30 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, you want more than 32 cargo types really, don't you? |
08:30 | <andythenorth> | which is supposed to reflect standard Arctic |
08:30 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: no actually :) |
08:30 | <andythenorth> | do you have some spare though? |
08:30 | <drac_boy> | 32 cargos seem a bit heavy to me :P |
08:31 | <drac_boy> | but meh at least a player does not have to use all of them ;) |
08:31 | <Pinkbeast> | Normal pak64's got printers (along with a demented selection of locomotives) |
08:31 | <drac_boy> | Pinkbeast ah .. hm I've never used pak64....yet |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | the basic FIRS economies have <20 cargos inc. PAX and mail |
08:31 | <andythenorth> | by design |
08:31 | <@peter1138> | hmm, where to take clay |
08:32 | <andythenorth> | paper mill |
08:32 | <plkiller> | i have a problem with getting onto my friends server it says "network-game connection lost" almos at (1,7mb of 1.8mb) the end of downloading the map, if i try to connect to other other server with bigger map it loads faster and i connect without problem. i could connect when the map had 1.2mb in begining of the gameworld. do you guys have any solution? |
08:32 | <andythenorth> | brick works if you have it |
08:32 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth that reminds me... |
08:32 | <@peter1138> | ooh got a cement plant next to a station |
08:32 | <drac_boy> | why do we have "brick works" rather than eg "bricks work" or "bricks works" .. or is it just something to do with english semastics? |
08:32 | <plkiller> | so guys could you help me? |
08:33 | <drac_boy> | plkiller you'll have to ask your friend to change his server host settings..thats all |
08:33 | <drac_boy> | nothing that can be done on your side .. except for ping times |
08:33 | <plkiller> | how do you change those? |
08:33 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, bah, ISR doesn't have FIRS specific stations ;( |
08:34 | <plkiller> | is it in openttd.cfg? |
08:34 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: CHIPS does, but it's a bit fucked, and I don't know how to fix it :) |
08:34 | <@peter1138> | i only plain tiles in CHIPS |
08:34 | <@peter1138> | +see |
08:34 | <andythenorth> | they'll show cargo if it's present |
08:35 | <andythenorth> | whatever there's most of |
08:35 | <@peter1138> | ok |
08:35 | <@peter1138> | fix it to not misuse temp variables |
08:35 | <andythenorth> | I should tell yexo :) |
08:36 | <plkiller> | hey can someone try to connect to my server? |
08:36 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: you should do a station set o_O |
08:37 | <Pikka> | oh no I shouldn't |
08:37 | <andythenorth> | oh yes you should |
08:37 | <Pikka> | I made one station for pineapple, and then decided not to make any more |
08:37 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, is the source open? |
08:37 | <plkiller> | can someone try to connect to a server called "testing connection"? |
08:37 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: CHIPS? |
08:37 | <@peter1138> | yeah |
08:37 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository |
08:38 | <Pikka> | works for me plk |
08:38 | <Pikka> | and plkiller |
08:39 | <plkiller> | did it download fast? |
08:39 | <Pikka> | yes |
08:39 | <plkiller> | because if my friend try to join it loads 1mb/min |
08:40 | <drac_boy> | need to go for a while anyhow |
08:40 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] |
08:41 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
08:41 | <andythenorth> | CHIPS is nearly 2 |
08:41 | <andythenorth> | it's like the 3rd child I don't have :P |
08:41 | <andythenorth> | it arrived in between the two I do have :P |
08:43 | <@peter1138> | cement plant is animating :D |
08:44 | <@peter1138> | oh dear |
08:44 | <@peter1138> | 300hp/510t train stuck going over a bridge :S |
08:44 | <@peter1138> | maybe i should've put a bit more on it |
08:45 | <plkiller> | i need to check something is there a command for money? |
08:45 | <Pinkbeast> | It's in the cheats menu |
08:45 | <plkiller> | how do i get there ;P |
08:45 | <Pinkbeast> | Ctrl-Alt-C IIRC |
08:46 | <plkiller> | it doesnt work |
08:46 | <andythenorth> | that kiln animation was painful to do :P |
08:46 | <andythenorth> | should have rendered it |
08:46 | <andythenorth> | I had to count tedious pixels |
08:46 | <Pinkbeast> | I daresay there is some sort of web searching facility that will tell you what the keybinding is |
08:48 | <andythenorth> | herm |
08:49 | <andythenorth> | paper is an existing cargo so that's ok. But is it ok for industries to have different outputs in different FIRS economies? |
08:49 | <Pinkbeast> | peter: send up a banking engine to get it across. :-) |
08:51 | <Pinkbeast> | andy: I wouldn't complain, so sample size of one says, sure! |
08:54 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
08:58 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
08:58 | * | andythenorth drops the sawmill |
08:58 | <andythenorth> | I should start a channel for my monologues |
08:58 | <andythenorth> | so should drac_boy |
08:59 | <andythenorth> | it's a form of teddy bear programming http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/01/rubberducking_a.html |
09:01 | <@Alberth> | I hope the mill missed your foot |
09:01 | <andythenorth> | yes, but it didn't survive the fall |
09:02 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
09:02 | <andythenorth> | if I break FIRS savegames, that's a minor version bump? |
09:02 | <andythenorth> | I think semver says that's a major version, but meh |
09:03 | <@Alberth> | I don't see breaking of NewGRF as a problem; you're not supposed to change the NewGRFs anyway |
09:04 | <andythenorth> | just wondering when to go to 0.9.0 instead of 0.8.x |
09:04 | <andythenorth> | soon I think |
09:05 | <@Alberth> | you control the meaning of a 0.x.0 change :) |
09:07 | * | andythenorth wonders if Arctic should export fish |
09:07 | <andythenorth> | probly not |
09:07 | <Pikka> | whales |
09:08 | <@Alberth> | it can export "scientific results" :p |
09:09 | -!- | ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd |
09:13 | <andythenorth> | revised FIRS Arctic Basic: 17 cargos, 18 industries (4 of them black holes in towns) |
09:13 | <andythenorth> | pretty good eh? |
09:13 | <Flygon> | Alberth: You're one step closer to banning OpenTTD from Australia :p |
09:14 | <@Alberth> | ? |
09:15 | <Flygon> | The Govt tends to go crazy over things such as graffiti being created by the gamer in video games |
09:15 | <Flygon> | And other such things |
09:15 | <Flygon> | Encouraging whaling could lead to another kneejerk response :p |
09:16 | <@Alberth> | oh, I meant real scientific results, about the weather and the climate and such |
09:16 | <Flygon> | Ah |
09:16 | <@Alberth> | in particular, I did NOT mean japanese science :) |
09:16 | <Flygon> | So, bad timing :p |
09:17 | <@Alberth> | bad making graffiti in the game sounds like a good addition :p |
09:17 | <@Alberth> | *but |
09:17 | <Kjetil> | It can export documentaries about a loon sailing around in the artic disabling ships and other crimes |
09:18 | <@Alberth> | or expeditions to the real south pole :) |
09:18 | <@Alberth> | and if you wait a while, you can also have expeditions to the north pole :) |
09:19 | <@Alberth> | although quite likely, the world will have some other problems when that happens :) |
09:19 | <andythenorth> | 'scientific supplies' |
09:19 | <andythenorth> | I had 'survey supplies' in the original FIRS plan o_O |
09:19 | <andythenorth> | would need a GS to make it interesting though |
09:19 | <@Alberth> | hire Zuu :) |
09:19 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
09:22 | -!- | plkiller [d54335fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
09:24 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
09:51 | -!- | valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
09:52 | -!- | bolli [~Sam@192.67.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd |
09:53 | <bolli> | Hi all |
09:53 | <bolli> | I've just got a quick coding question.... |
09:54 | <bolli> | Is it possible to choose which sprite based on what cargo a vehicle carries? |
09:54 | <andythenorth> | yes |
09:54 | <bolli> | How? :p |
09:54 | <andythenorth> | nml or nfo? |
09:54 | <bolli> | nml |
09:54 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
09:55 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
09:55 | <andythenorth> | do you have any complicated cases you want to handle, or just simple cargo->sprites? |
09:55 | <bolli> | Just cargo-> sprites |
09:55 | <andythenorth> | complicated => things like sprites for different dates etc ;) |
09:55 | <bolli> | So vehicles show vehicles on the wagon, Steel shows steel etc |
09:56 | <bolli> | No, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible :P |
09:56 | <andythenorth> | you'll need a cargo translation table. ot one? |
09:56 | <andythenorth> | got * |
09:56 | <bolli> | Is that the cargotable{ } ? |
09:57 | <andythenorth> | yes |
09:57 | <bolli> | ok, yep, got one of those :) |
09:57 | * | andythenorth wonders what action 3 is in nml :P |
09:57 | * | andythenorth wikis |
09:58 | <Stimrol> | I am running a server with very hard setup, I am thinking of adding weight multiplayer for Pikka 's UKRS2 newgrf. What is recommended settings, I now have slope steepness set to 10% and no weight multiplier |
09:59 | <andythenorth> | bolli: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Item |
09:59 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
09:59 | <andythenorth> | graphics {} block |
09:59 | <andythenorth> | cargo_identifier: spritegroup; |
09:59 | <Pinkbeast> | Stimrol: I find 3x is about right - certainly no more with the very early locomotives |
09:59 | <bolli> | Ah, thanks andy :) |
10:00 | <bolli> | I missed that reading through it... :) |
10:00 | <Pinkbeast> | And don't try and move cargo with the Planet or Crampton unless it's downhill :-/ |
10:00 | <Stimrol> | pink and is that okay with 10% slope |
10:00 | <@Alberth> | Stimrol: there are no globally agreed recommended settings, it depends on what you like |
10:01 | <Pikka> | personally I play with 5x and 3% |
10:01 | <Pinkbeast> | 10% is extremely high |
10:02 | <Stimrol> | Alberth, yes I know, it is just if I will overkill it with highest slope and then adding multiplier also |
10:02 | <bolli> | Next question... |
10:02 | <@Alberth> | Pinkbeast: I guess that's why it is called 'hard setup' :) |
10:02 | <bolli> | GPL or CC licences? |
10:02 | <andythenorth> | bolli: if you ever need anything more complicated, use a switch and check vars like cargo_type_in_veh, cargo_classes, or cargo_subtype |
10:02 | <andythenorth> | GPL, v2 |
10:02 | <bolli> | Thanks andy :) |
10:02 | <bolli> | x2 |
10:02 | <andythenorth> | CC is messier |
10:03 | <@Alberth> | Stimrol: that depends also on the set of vehicles that you use, the best approach is to try it in a test game |
10:03 | <Pinkbeast> | I think weight multiplier is a better approach than an aggressive slope setting - slope setting makes no difference to accelerating trains on the flat, obviously. |
10:04 | <@Alberth> | Pinkbeast: they serve different needs; high slope setting makes you desperately avoid slopes |
10:04 | <Pinkbeast> | Alberth: obviously yes |
10:04 | <Stimrol> | using ukrs, and yes true it only slows them down and make players have to think about TE |
10:04 | <andythenorth> | weight multiplier will kill you with UKRS 2 |
10:04 | <andythenorth> | it makes it not fun |
10:04 | <Stimrol> | maybe more thought for NARS :) |
10:04 | <Pinkbeast> | The Long Boiler and Coppernob are OK on freight with a weight multiplier |
10:05 | <V453000> | I think weight multipler is a poor decision for all train sets, perhaps except japan |
10:06 | <V453000> | but you usually dont play japan to have a cargo game |
10:06 | <Stimrol> | Could maybe be fun to try the authors setting 5x and 3%, but 3% is makeing the slopes much easier :) |
10:07 | <Stimrol> | I am trying a setup with fund only for industries V453000 |
10:07 | <Pikka> | higher weight multiplier gives you more differentiation between locomotives on the flat, too |
10:07 | <V453000> | it does, but you can brutally abuse things on downhill |
10:07 | <V453000> | which is nice but imo should stay within some boundaries |
10:07 | <andythenorth> | I need all my trains at top speed for cargo coal :P |
10:08 | <andythenorth> | coal / goal /s |
10:08 | <Pikka> | just need more/longer trains, andy :P |
10:08 | <Pinkbeast> | V453: I disagree - for example in UKRS1 if you don't have a weight multiplier there's little incentive to use the 0-8-0 freight over the 0-6-0 because in practice even the 0-6-0 can whisk coal trains about |
10:08 | <andythenorth> | fewer shorter trains is a good strategy for cargo goal |
10:09 | * | Pinkbeast hops on a vehicle with an 1-1-0 wheel arrangement and zooms off, anyway, see you all later |
10:09 | <Stimrol> | V453000, what is it the weight multiplier going to change on downhill? |
10:09 | <andythenorth> | but more, shorter trains means you have to dick around with escape depots or queing tracks or n-tile stations |
10:09 | -!- | valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd |
10:09 | <V453000> | for full trains? Trains will accelerate like instantly on downhill ofc |
10:09 | <Pikka> | do you, andy? |
10:09 | <Pikka> | where's the server at? :) |
10:09 | <V453000> | weight multiplier just creates a stupidly high differenece between full and empty trains imo |
10:10 | <Stimrol> | that is nice factor, that you could have little troube also on downhill |
10:10 | <Stimrol> | Pikka andy's or mine? |
10:10 | <Pikka> | andy's |
10:10 | <V453000> | honestly UKRS1 with any multiplier is really poor as it makes engines like the modern steamrers or GEC91 basically useless, the AL10 becomes the only considerable option |
10:10 | <Stimrol> | thought so :) |
10:12 | <andythenorth> | maybe time for an MP cargo game? |
10:12 | <andythenorth> | I can only play in the evenings |
10:12 | <Pikka> | maybe |
10:12 | <andythenorth> | and only then if my ADSL holds up :P |
10:12 | <Stimrol> | multiplier is HP and slope is TE |
10:14 | <Stimrol> | This is a nice pointers I got, and I will probably have to tweak it a little in the beginning |
10:15 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd |
10:15 | <drac_boy> | hi |
10:16 | <Stimrol> | thanks for the help, now I know a bit more about the weight multiplier, because I never tried it out, because there is a lot between 2-255 in the setup :) |
10:21 | -!- | chester_ [~chester@95-25-181-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd |
10:23 | <andythenorth> | RVs are so fricking faceted |
10:23 | <andythenorth> | have to consider overtaking, station type, etc |
10:24 | * | andythenorth also wonders why zeph bothers with the articulated (fifth wheel) trucks |
10:24 | <andythenorth> | there are non-articulated ones which are faster + have same capacity, with none of the hassles |
10:24 | <drac_boy> | problem is the axle loading :p |
10:25 | <drac_boy> | thats why in real life a 18 wheel is lighter than 10 wheel in road surface sense :) |
10:26 | <andythenorth> | yeah...but ottd doesn't care about that |
10:26 | <Pikka> | I showed you my HOQVS plans, didn't I andy? |
10:26 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth players do? :P |
10:28 | <drac_boy> | anyway I had a quick question for someone... |
10:29 | <@peter1138> | did you lose it? |
10:29 | <V453000> | I think he is typing it |
10:29 | <drac_boy> | does the callback 14B anc 14C basically mean you can have one industry that more or less can randomize its input&output at build time? (like for example one farm may output crop1 but another farm output crop2 instead even although its the same industry id basically) |
10:31 | <drac_boy> | V453000 thank you for figuring that out :P |
10:31 | <V453000> | moo |
10:31 | <V453000> | :) |
10:31 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, basically, yes |
10:31 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: they had no Q in previously? o_O |
10:31 | <@peter1138> | had implies you don't have it any more |
10:32 | <drac_boy> | V453000 are you a cow? |
10:32 | <drac_boy> | :) |
10:32 | <V453000> | you didnt know? |
10:32 | <Pikka> | well it's hovs2 |
10:32 | <Pikka> | thus hoqvs :) |
10:33 | <Pinkbeast> | V$53: Er since the AM10's a pax EMU I don't see how weight multiplier affects its viability at all |
10:33 | <andythenorth> | drac_boy: use those cbs with caution, they shaft unwary players |
10:33 | <andythenorth> | there's industry in FIRS that uses it, and it shafted me :P |
10:35 | <andythenorth> | IRL, all fertiliser is delivered by DC10 and 737 right? |
10:35 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
10:35 | * | andythenorth has an idea using industry airports |
10:35 | <Pikka> | sounds plausible andy |
10:36 | <Pikka> | new airports! \o/ |
10:36 | <drac_boy> | V453000 are you a dairy or beef cow tho? ;) heh heh |
10:36 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: got anything that would pass for an air tractor? |
10:36 | <andythenorth> | http://www.airtractor.com |
10:36 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth the farm thing was only an example. I wasn't going to use it for extreme industries :) |
10:36 | <Pikka> | the low-wing plane in genav8? |
10:36 | <Pikka> | it's not very airtractor though |
10:38 | <V453000> | Pinkbeast: AL10, not AM10 |
10:38 | -!- | valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
10:38 | <drac_boy> | Pinkbeast unless I've noted it wrong ... a passenger is still a weighted cargo ... so one passenger is 1/16t at a multiplier of x1, you can see how many passengers at a higher multiplier can start adding several tons to a train |
10:39 | <Pikka> | cargo multiplier isn't applied to passengers afaia |
10:39 | <@peter1138> | passengers aren't freight |
10:39 | <Pikka> | perhaps they should be |
10:39 | <drac_boy> | peter1138 if its not then why is it assigned in the cargo weights? |
10:40 | <Pinkbeast> | Even if it did at 35 tons of carriage to 2 1/2 tons of pax it would hardly make much difference at typical multiplier settings |
10:40 | <drac_boy> | Pinkbeast well I've noted otherwise with low-power carriages but might be just my experience tho |
10:40 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, well how many people do you know weigh 0kg? |
10:40 | <Pinkbeast> | drac: I think it's your imagination - I don't think pax weight is multiplied up at all |
10:41 | <drac_boy> | pinkbeast or it means the weight multiplier is excluded from at least one cargo class |
10:41 | <@peter1138> | the multiplier is explicitly for freight |
10:41 | <drac_boy> | either way I've had enough problem with these smaller railcars that barely can climb on low settings alone |
10:42 | <Pinkbeast> | V453: the AL1? I think that's more to do with OTTD (absent NuTracks and friends) not representing the costs of electrification |
10:42 | <@peter1138> | if (!CargoSpec::Get(cargo)->is_freight) return 1; |
10:42 | <andythenorth> | has someone fucked up their cargo newgrf and set the weight multiplier on PAX? o_O |
10:42 | <@peter1138> | return _settings_game.vehicle.freight_trains; |
10:43 | <drac_boy> | pinkbeast I always did wonder why certain costs are a bit out of whack .. such as airports being way too cheap to build etc |
10:43 | <andythenorth> | that would break RV stops too wouldn't it? o_O |
10:43 | <drac_boy> | but meh :) |
10:43 | <drac_boy> | I always run my games with basecost parameters set high for a lot of things, can't remember one time I ever disabled basecost at all |
10:43 | <Pinkbeast> | Sure, if you can electrify everywhere, it doesn't make sense to build 9Fs when electric freight locomotives turn up. |
10:43 | <andythenorth> | so probably drac_boy is just wrong about pax :) |
10:45 | <Pikka> | he is, but I still think he's right that passengers /should/ be affected by the multiplier |
10:45 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
10:45 | <Pikka> | there's no logical reason for the exception |
10:46 | <Pinkbeast> | I disagree - the multiplier's there because freight trains are artifically short in OTTD, but passenger trains aren't |
10:46 | <drac_boy> | me wonder what else could be causing a fully loaded railcar to gain another few tons if its not the industry cargo >_< |
10:46 | <andythenorth> | Pinkbeast: I disagree :) |
10:46 | <@peter1138> | if your freight trains aren't artifically short then you shouldn't be using the multiplier |
10:46 | <drac_boy> | artifically short? you don't know of the mammoth train feature ever since the patch introduced it? :) |
10:46 | <drac_boy> | just saying heh |
10:47 | <@peter1138> | yeah but most people don't make 20-plus-tile long trains |
10:47 | * | andythenorth does |
10:47 | <andythenorth> | but only with NARS 2 or canset |
10:47 | <Pinkbeast> | The way time and distance scales make it difficult for trains to traverse junctions doesn't help there. |
10:47 | <andythenorth> | it's bad form to do it with UKRS 2 |
10:47 | <andythenorth> | :P |
10:47 | <andythenorth> | my NARS 2 trains never have 3 P42s on the front though :P |
10:48 | <andythenorth> | but the freight trains will have lots of SD 40s |
10:48 | * | andythenorth suspects Amtrak don't need 3 P42s on one train for power |
10:48 | <andythenorth> | but because they break |
10:48 | <andythenorth> | and crash into trucks a lot |
10:48 | <andythenorth> | also |
10:48 | <andythenorth> | the UKRS 2 thread attracts some interestingly passive aggressive posts :) |
10:49 | <drac_boy> | actually some of the long distance trains especially autotrain do have two locomotives often |
10:49 | <andythenorth> | or is it just aggressive? |
10:49 | * | andythenorth can never tell |
10:49 | <drac_boy> | but most other things are only one locomotive .. except for the push-pull trains (even then some of these are just one locomotive and one "engine-less baggage locomotive") |
10:49 | <Pikka> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=42562&p=1058955#p1058955 |
10:49 | <Pikka> | I have invented another curved line \o/ |
10:50 | <@peter1138> | heh |
10:50 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth if you wanted a true freight train, go back several years ago to the CP railroad through the british columbia mountain |
10:51 | <andythenorth> | drac_boy: have you been there? |
10:51 | * | Pinkbeast stalks Tal's houses' thread |
10:51 | <drac_boy> | 2-3 SD40 up front ... a set of 4 helper SD40 in middle ... and two helper-controlled remote SD40 on tail ...! |
10:51 | <andythenorth> | drac_boy: I was in the Rockies for 3 months in 1998 |
10:51 | <andythenorth> | game set and match to me I think |
10:51 | <andythenorth> | on this point |
10:51 | <bolli> | No closing our pubs Pikka! |
10:51 | <Pinkbeast> | If I wanted a true freight train I'd go to Peterborough (ugh!) and watch the ECML, that doesn't need any time machines |
10:52 | <andythenorth> | I want a false freight train |
10:52 | <bolli> | They're already managing well enough on their own :( |
10:52 | <andythenorth> | !freight_train |
10:52 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth sadly I've only been to victoria twice .. and Squash (right name?) once ... everything else has been from articles written by now-retired engineers themself etc |
10:52 | <andythenorth> | or fright train |
10:52 | <Pinkbeast> | Wouldn't a lot of empty hoppers be a false freight train? |
10:53 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: the self-destroying building thing - burn out a car :P |
10:53 | <andythenorth> | leave it for 1 month |
10:53 | <andythenorth> | or have picniccers :P |
10:53 | <andythenorth> | depending on the social state of the town o_O |
10:54 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
10:55 | <andythenorth> | also, do your pubs accept alcohol? o_O |
10:55 | <Pikka> | they could I suppose |
10:56 | <Pikka> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHJo-k6IHI4 there you go drac_boy, some pineappletrains at work |
10:56 | <andythenorth> | do you have a bottle shop in TaI? |
10:57 | <Pikka> | there's two pubs, the country one and the town one, I could make them accept alcohol if it's defined... |
10:58 | <oskari892> | :) |
10:59 | <@peter1138> | that's calling for a hopper unloader |
10:59 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth and Pikka do you two think that food producing industries should still be placed inside a town rather than out in the country? brewery, bakery, whatever |
11:01 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
11:02 | <Kjetil> | industrial size bakeries and breweries do not need to be placed inside a town. Allthough most industry is |
11:02 | <Stimrol> | Pikka this was the longest train I have seen in my life |
11:02 | <drac_boy> | Kjetil mm good suggestion |
11:03 | <drac_boy> | guess I could think about a 2x2 or bigger sized food factory of some sort |
11:05 | <Pikka> | andythenorth, are there any other cargos you'd like town buildings to accept while I'm at it? |
11:05 | <andythenorth> | brrp |
11:06 | * | andythenorth thinks |
11:06 | <bolli> | Livestock or Grain? |
11:06 | <bolli> | For commercial buildings... |
11:07 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: all up to you, FIRS has these covered with black hole industries...but: |
11:07 | <andythenorth> | goods, alcohol, food, petrol |
11:07 | <andythenorth> | and for bizarre, player-induced reasons, fruit :| |
11:07 | <Pikka> | well, they all accept goods and food already... |
11:08 | <Kjetil> | what about clothing ? |
11:08 | <Pikka> | petrol I'm not sure about since I have my own black hole for that |
11:08 | <oskari892> | Andythenorth: Do you have both Sawmill and Paper factory in Arctic FIRS? |
11:08 | <oskari892> | It would be nice, at least here in Finland there is both on IRL economy |
11:08 | <andythenorth> | there's also building materials, and probably will be cars |
11:09 | <andythenorth> | oskari892: I'm removing Sawmill from Arctic Basic |
11:09 | <andythenorth> | for game balance reasons |
11:09 | <oskari892> | Ok, is it in something other Arctic version? |
11:10 | <andythenorth> | it's in main 'FIRS' economy |
11:10 | * | peter1138 checks bananas for tai updates :p |
11:10 | <drac_boy> | heh |
11:10 | <oskari892> | Andy: Okay |
11:10 | <andythenorth> | and DanMacK wants to do a Canadian economy, which probably doubles for most of sub-arctic |
11:11 | <oskari892> | Andythenorth: Have you seen DanMacK lately? |
11:11 | <andythenorth> | not for a few weeks |
11:11 | <andythenorth> | he's taking a break |
11:11 | <oskari892> | Okay :) |
11:11 | <oskari892> | He'll be back in a few weeks or so? |
11:12 | <@peter1138> | i thought oztrans had a monopoly on canadian things ;p |
11:13 | <drac_boy> | canadian industries .. that would so have to include grain BIG time :P |
11:14 | <drac_boy> | and a bit of potatos for the sake of the eastern proviences :) |
11:14 | <oskari892> | He planned Finnish economy too |
11:14 | <andythenorth> | potatos o_O |
11:14 | <Pikka> | not yet peter1138 |
11:14 | <drac_boy> | or lumbers (although that already exists) for west canada |
11:14 | <andythenorth> | vegetables are a bit lacking in FIRS |
11:14 | <Pikka> | you can have one soon if you want to test it :) |
11:14 | <Pikka> | meh @ vegetables |
11:14 | <Pikka> | "grain" :} |
11:14 | <andythenorth> | yeah |
11:14 | <chester_> | men, is it possible to only recompile 1 header and keep every other header precompiled, then compile everything? |
11:14 | <andythenorth> | green stuff is bad |
11:14 | <Kjetil> | eat your vegetables! |
11:14 | <andythenorth> | is TaI savegame compatible? |
11:15 | <andythenorth> | let me rephrase |
11:15 | <oskari892> | Potatos here too, and peat :) |
11:15 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
11:15 | <andythenorth> | is TaI beta 0.3 compatible? |
11:15 | <Pikka> | possibly? |
11:15 | <@peter1138> | i'd have to start a new game |
11:15 | <@peter1138> | but tai is worth it |
11:15 | <bolli> | Out of asking, What does 1.3 break? |
11:15 | * | andythenorth should fix this arctic economy before a new game |
11:15 | <bolli> | against 1.2... |
11:15 | <Kjetil> | how about garbage disposal ? |
11:15 | <andythenorth> | but first I have to beat frosch's Silicon Valley script |
11:16 | <Pikka> | it will probably work, but you won't get the full effect of the set if you're applying it to an already existing game |
11:16 | <@peter1138> | i'm only 6 years into this one, heh |
11:16 | <andythenorth> | garbage disposal is the most boring industry chain ever |
11:16 | <@peter1138> | (game years, doh) |
11:16 | <@peter1138> | bolli, nothing in theory |
11:16 | <Kjetil> | andythenorth: unless you are the mob in napoli ? :P |
11:16 | <@peter1138> | bolli, but that's why you get to test it |
11:17 | <bolli> | right... :p |
11:17 | <bolli> | What I actually meant, what from 1.2 will work with 1.3 and what wont- i.e. NewGRFs, scenarios |
11:18 | <Pikka> | everything will work |
11:18 | <bolli> | Without changes? |
11:18 | <Pikka> | yes |
11:18 | <bolli> | Ok, thanks :) |
11:19 | <bolli> | I was worried that I'd have to go through my set of multiplayer scenarios and change them... |
11:19 | <Kjetil> | andythenorth: is it still boring if you add recycling? |
11:20 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
11:20 | <Pikka> | do you want the industries too, peter1138? I don't think they're broken at the moment. |
11:21 | <Pikka> | I haven't started breaking them yet :) |
11:21 | <@peter1138> | heh |
11:23 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
11:23 | <Pikka> | pub-be-gone seems to work, I guess I'll release a version or something. or should I quickly put the rookeries in first? |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | rabbit warrens too? |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | for food? |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | and a monastery |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | and a trout lake? |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | and a castle? |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | Kjetil: recycling exists in FIRS |
11:24 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: can I haz industries? |
11:25 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd |
11:25 | <Pikka> | castles might be good, as newobjects or something :) |
11:25 | <andythenorth> | it would be nice to play an industry set, and report bugs to Other People |
11:25 | <Kjetil> | andythenorth: hippie! :P |
11:25 | <Pikka> | I'm actually not sure if much has changed in the industries since the last release, but sure |
11:25 | <andythenorth> | instead of having to fix my own |
11:25 | <Pikka> | I haven't done anything with the 19th c industries yet |
11:25 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth heh well feel free to check mine out...in a month or two? ;) |
11:25 | <andythenorth> | wow, you have a 0.1 nearly ready to go? |
11:26 | <andythenorth> | where's your repo? o_O |
11:26 | <drac_boy> | its only sprites and some newgrf wiki notes now :p |
11:28 | <drac_boy> | might ask about a tt-forum website when I think I have enough to share pre-grf but we'll see about that tho |
11:28 | <andythenorth> | me and Foobar estimated 1 year to get FIRS to a playable state ;) |
11:28 | <andythenorth> | we were off by 100% |
11:29 | <drac_boy> | heh well thats mainly because of trying to put so many things into it? :) |
11:29 | <andythenorth> | with more than 2 people contributing, neither had kids or final year degree projects ;) |
11:32 | <Pikka> | I'm confused |
11:32 | <Pikka> | 0..4 First cargo type |
11:32 | <Pikka> | 5..9 Second cargo type |
11:32 | <Pikka> | 10..14 Third cargo type |
11:32 | <Pikka> | surely those bit ranges are wrong :D |
11:33 | <Pikka> | for callback 2A |
11:33 | <Pikka> | surely it's just the first 3 bytes? |
11:35 | * | andythenorth puzzles |
11:35 | <@peter1138> | do we have 3-byte callback results? |
11:35 | <Pikka> | well |
11:35 | * | drac_boy needs some non-usa tippler wagon photos -__ |
11:35 | <Pikka> | it's a 4 byte and the highest byte is ignored |
11:35 | <@peter1138> | (good luck returning cargo types >= 32) |
11:36 | <Pikka> | if it's the same format as the property |
11:36 | -!- | glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
11:36 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
11:36 | <@peter1138> | callback results are still limit to 15 bits iirc |
11:36 | <Pikka> | hmm |
11:36 | <Pikka> | okay, I guess it makes sense then |
11:37 | <Pikka> | makes it a bit of an unreadable mess though :) I guess it's not unique among callbacks in that respect |
11:37 | <@peter1138> | nope |
11:40 | -!- | valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
11:41 | <Pikka> | duh |
11:41 | <Pikka> | of course callbacks are limited to 15 bits |
11:41 | <Pikka> | sorry, it's late :) |
11:41 | <@peter1138> | i think there was talking about making them 32 bit (or some such) as some point |
11:44 | -!- | Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.2.112.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd |
11:48 | -!- | Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd |
11:51 | -!- | Lappro [~Bubovi@ip54551278.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has left #openttd [] |
11:51 | <drac_boy> | mmm 17 wagon ids used and I haven't even gotten to any open top or special covered top ones yet |
11:52 | <drac_boy> | fun..that is |
11:52 | <@peter1138> | that's okay, you've got 65535 in total |
11:52 | <drac_boy> | more like 0 to 115 actually :) |
11:53 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: did you lose interest in pineapple, or lack of time? |
11:53 | <Pikka> | bit of both |
11:53 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth ask him where the sea air ports are? :) |
11:53 | <drac_boy> | heh |
11:53 | <Pikka> | if I remade it it wouldn't be all-in-one |
11:54 | <@peter1138> | drac_boy, nah, nobody uses ttdpatch |
11:55 | <drac_boy> | actually they do |
11:55 | <Pikka> | nobody we care about uses ttdpatch, he means :) |
11:57 | <drac_boy> | pikka then they're missing out on some nice networks ;) |
11:58 | <drac_boy> | I meant to ask you pikka...why are the seaplanes included in av8 even although they can't be used? |
11:58 | <Pikka> | they can be |
12:01 | <drac_boy> | hm...ok |
12:04 | <drac_boy> | I should go find something to eat so I'm going now heh |
12:04 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] |
12:11 | <Pikka> | hmm andy, that will confuse people |
12:12 | <Pikka> | my petrol stations are chibi versions of your petrol stations, but don't accept petrol :) I suppose I should make it so they do... or so that they don't appear if FIRS is loaded. |
12:18 | <andythenorth> | one or the other :) |
12:18 | <andythenorth> | chibi? |
12:19 | <andythenorth> | you've been watching waybalu? |
12:19 | <andythenorth> | :P |
12:21 | <Pikka> | not lately |
12:21 | <Pikka> | and there... |
12:21 | <Pikka> | petrol stations now accept 4/8 petr if defined, pubs now accept 4/8 beer if defined |
12:21 | <MNIM> | beer? |
12:21 | <Pikka> | no, not beer |
12:22 | <Kjetil> | etanols? |
12:22 | <Pikka> | rookery can wait, I'll up the grf |
12:22 | <MNIM> | awwww. |
12:22 | * | MNIM leaves again |
12:23 | -!- | ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd |
12:23 | <Pikka> | oh snap |
12:23 | <Pikka> | the industry grf is version 6 |
12:23 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | out of curiosity: why is there the magic number 13 in bridge.h MAX_BRIDGES |
12:23 | <Pikka> | how much am I going to have to fix if I bump it to 7? |
12:23 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | static const uint MAX_BRIDGES = 13; ///< Maximal number of available bridge specs. |
12:24 | <@planetmaker> | not too much, Pikka. But... better got for v8 straight away |
12:24 | <Pikka> | yeah, that's what I meant :) |
12:24 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | why is it 13 and not anything else |
12:24 | <Pikka> | because that was the number of bridges in TTD |
12:24 | <@planetmaker> | TTD had 11 bridges |
12:25 | <Pikka> | did it though? |
12:25 | <Pikka> | yes, openttd added two new tubular one |
12:25 | <Pikka> | s |
12:25 | <@planetmaker> | the two additional tube bridges are openttd |
12:25 | <Pikka> | because that was the number in openttd, then :) |
12:25 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
12:26 | <Pikka> | really? nothing broke? |
12:26 | <Pikka> | I remember bumping UKRS2 and the whole thing fell in a heap |
12:27 | <Pikka> | oh, undefined strings ahoy |
12:27 | <Pikka> | that's not too bad |
12:27 | <@planetmaker> | Pikka, of course you'll need to do some conversion... e.g. look at callbacks and their size |
12:28 | <MNIM> | So, let me get this straight. |
12:28 | <@peter1138> | hmm chips won't compile :p |
12:28 | <@planetmaker> | Pikka, not sure there exists such summary for NFO. But NML 0.2 is basically grf v7 while NML 0.3 is grf v8. Thus this applies approx. to NFO, too: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Changes_0.3 |
12:28 | <MNIM> | this bridge limit has not been changed because... |
12:28 | <andythenorth> | -Whistling tunes we hid in the dunes by the seaside |
12:28 | <Pikka> | because you haven't changed it yet |
12:28 | <andythenorth> | Whistling tunes we're kissing baboons in the jungle |
12:28 | <@planetmaker> | MNIM, because noone implented proper NewGRF bridges |
12:28 | <@peter1138> | MNIM, it's never been made dynamic |
12:29 | <@planetmaker> | *implemented |
12:29 | <MNIM> | ah. |
12:29 | * | MNIM can guess those reasons. :P |
12:30 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: any compile error? |
12:30 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | so there is no actual other reason then "we just dont have more" |
12:30 | <andythenorth> | it's only nfo + C pre-processor |
12:30 | -!- | TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] |
12:30 | <@peter1138> | Processing file "chips.nfo". |
12:30 | <@peter1138> | Error on sprite 342. |
12:31 | * | bolli goes to complete the theory of "If you can't work it out yourself, find an open source project to use as an example" |
12:31 | <@peter1138> | . //!!Error (227): Offset 31: Unknown data does not allow processesing past this point. |
12:31 | <@peter1138> | . //!!Fatal Error (64): Expected more data for prop 1A. (1 bytes at 119.) |
12:31 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd |
12:32 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: clean r222 compiles for me :| |
12:32 | <@peter1138> | i don't see anything wrong with it mind you |
12:32 | <andythenorth> | GRFCodec trunk r944 |
12:32 | <@peter1138> | hmm, ok |
12:33 | <@peter1138> | clean works, so... my fault :p |
12:33 | <@peter1138> | weird though |
12:35 | <@peter1138> | oh i see |
12:36 | <@peter1138> | now it compiles but doesn't work :D |
12:37 | <andythenorth> | that sounds more like my usual experience ;) |
12:38 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | from a n00b point of view, would just changing it from static const to static not do the tric? |
12:40 | <Pikka> | new TaI houses and industries are on a banana, peter1138 and andythenorth |
12:41 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | ow great Pikka, that animated image looked great! |
12:45 | * | andythenorth likes a banana |
12:46 | <andythenorth> | why 'check online content' |
12:46 | <andythenorth> | instead of 'get online content' or something? |
12:46 | <andythenorth> | or just 'content download' |
12:46 | -!- | Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
12:47 | <andythenorth> | get addons |
12:47 | <andythenorth> | 'send me the codez' |
12:47 | <andythenorth> | 'all the modz' |
12:47 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | gief me all your monejz |
12:48 | <Pikka> | whoops, petrol stations appear to accept plastic instead of mail. Oh well. :) |
12:48 | <@planetmaker> | it's the future. It's plastic. It's fantastic |
12:48 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | its fuel containers |
12:48 | <ZxBiohazardZx> | in the future your car will drive on plastics? |
12:49 | <Pikka> | yes |
12:49 | <+michi_cc> | Pikka: It's not an exhausting list, but the wiki does have a short summary on GRF changes: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Version_numbers#GRF_version_7 |
12:50 | <+michi_cc> | And did you see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1058620#p1058620 ? |
12:52 | <Pikka> | I did, thanks |
12:53 | -!- | TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd |
12:59 | <andythenorth> | now /me can steal pikka's industry ideas :x |
12:59 | <Pikka> | not yet you can't |
12:59 | <Pikka> | there's nothing in there that wasn't in PBI :P |
13:00 | -!- | ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.] |
13:00 | <andythenorth> | so I see :) |
13:01 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
13:02 | <Pikka> | when I do get around to updating it, I'm going to dump the entire TTD primary production system and code my own in the grf >_> |
13:02 | <Pikka> | cue cries of "that's what gamescripts are for" |
13:02 | <andythenorth> | eh no |
13:02 | <andythenorth> | that's what newgrf is for ;) |
13:02 | <Pikka> | yes |
13:02 | <Pikka> | :P |
13:03 | <andythenorth> | what will you do? |
13:04 | <Pikka> | reduce production for the 19th century |
13:04 | <Pikka> | have a more refined form of the "estimated resources" |
13:04 | <Pikka> | do something interesting with farms |
13:06 | <andythenorth> | seasonal production? :P |
13:06 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd |
13:06 | <Pikka> | *maybe* give industries a crude internal "economy" for the purposes of production increase/decrease/shutdown |
13:06 | <Pikka> | eh |
13:06 | <andythenorth> | changing production according to epoch might be an idea worth stealing |
13:06 | <Pikka> | seasonal production would probably be annoying |
13:07 | <andythenorth> | +lots to annoying :) |
13:07 | <@planetmaker> | +1 |
13:07 | <Pikka> | coal miner strikes? |
13:07 | <andythenorth> | 1982 |
13:08 | <andythenorth> | 1984 even |
13:08 | <@Alberth> | sounds more like a disaster :) |
13:09 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/noregisters.diff |
13:09 | <@peter1138> | == no more broken sprites |
13:10 | <@peter1138> | might not be right but as there's nothing in there to set a register then it shouldn't be reading them either |
13:15 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
13:15 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
13:15 | <andythenorth> | will test after bath time |
13:20 | <Stimrol> | Pikka, I would not find this tal buildings ingame by searching "tal" had to type "pikka" or "houses" just so you know |
13:21 | <Pikka> | that's because it's an I, not an l :) |
13:21 | <Stimrol> | ahh silly me :) |
13:21 | <andythenorth> | TaI |
13:21 | <Stimrol> | thanks |
13:21 | <andythenorth> | T&A |
13:21 | <andythenorth> | :P |
13:22 | <Pikka> | filthy swine |
13:22 | <andythenorth> | TampersandI |
13:23 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
13:23 | <@peter1138> | i'm guessing TaI industries isn't going to work well with FIRS? |
13:25 | <Stimrol> | and also me because I am sound blind, thought it was Tall :D |
13:25 | <@planetmaker> | :D |
13:29 | <Pikka> | do any industry sets work well together? |
13:29 | <@peter1138> | probably not |
13:29 | <@peter1138> | especially as firs has like 5678493 industries |
13:31 | <Kjetil> | more industrious than a hooker on crack ? |
13:33 | <@Alberth> | most hookers on crack don't own any industry :p |
13:33 | -!- | Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] |
13:35 | <Pikka> | and he should know |
13:35 | <Pikka> | anyway, bedtime |
13:36 | <Pikka> | glhf |
13:36 | -!- | Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-0-143.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
13:39 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: you have a bigger FIRS than me :O |
13:39 | <andythenorth> | do you have a secret patch to increase number of industries o_O |
13:40 | <@peter1138> | shush! |
13:40 | * | SpComb has yet to play a FIRS game with more than one of each industry |
13:40 | <@peter1138> | really? |
13:40 | <SpComb> | it would need a 512x512 map or so :) |
13:40 | <@peter1138> | hmm |
13:41 | <@peter1138> | i'm using 512x512, but with loads of water and very low towns |
13:41 | <SpComb> | 256x256 would get crowded with more than one of each |
13:41 | <andythenorth> | iirc, 256x256 can't even build 1 of each |
13:41 | <@peter1138> | damn, chips stations don't draw passengers :p |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | no |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | I am misanthropic |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | I don't want to see more people than I have to, even in pixel form |
13:42 | <andythenorth> | on 256x256 with 'normal industry' map gen setting, you should get ~1 of each FIRS industry |
13:42 | <V453000> | :DD |
13:43 | <andythenorth> | 55 is about right |
13:43 | <andythenorth> | on low or very low, broken chains everywhere |
13:43 | <andythenorth> | also applies to any smaller map |
13:43 | <SpComb> | hmm, I play with low industries, and no broken chains, I think |
13:43 | <V453000> | would be wise to always force at least 1 of each to spawn at start |
13:43 | <SpComb> | except sugar cane plantation thingie produces nothing |
13:43 | <andythenorth> | it might be doing the 'build at least one thing' |
13:43 | <andythenorth> | SpComb: sounds like a bug, which FIRS version? |
13:44 | <SpComb> | bananas |
13:44 | <SpComb> | dunno |
13:44 | <@peter1138> | same here |
13:45 | <andythenorth> | temperate and / or arctic climates, right? |
13:45 | <andythenorth> | that industry shouldn't even be available to you :) |
13:45 | <andythenorth> | that's one of the bugs |
13:45 | <@peter1138> | heh |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r24867 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-12-28 18:45:30 UTC) |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | belarusian - 40 changes by KorneySan |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | greek - 9 changes by Evropi |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | indonesian - 51 changes by fanioz |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | polish - 29 changes by wojteks86 |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | russian - 2 changes by KorneySan |
13:46 | * | andythenorth will fix that :P |
13:46 | <andythenorth> | lots of 0.8.x trivial versions :| |
13:46 | <@peter1138> | is it possible to convert implicit orders to real orders? |
13:48 | <Rubidium> | no(t yet) |
13:56 | -!- | Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.2.112.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
14:16 | <andythenorth> | meh, I should make FIRS code explicitly enable industries instead of explicitly disable :P |
14:18 | -!- | eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-223-93.blcnet.fi] has joined #openttd |
14:21 | <andythenorth> | peter1138: CHIPS fix appears to work :) |
14:22 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
14:23 | -!- | Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd |
14:28 | -!- | Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
14:29 | <andythenorth> | have some bananas and chips |
14:30 | -!- | MNIM [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
14:30 | -!- | bolli [~Sam@192.67.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] |
14:33 | <andythenorth> | finally, I have a project with no open issues :o |
14:36 | -!- | LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd |
14:36 | -!- | Pixa [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
14:39 | -!- | Enemy [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd |
14:46 | -!- | Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
14:48 | <@peter1138> | haha |
14:50 | * | andythenorth breaks FIRS 0.8.2 savegames :P |
14:51 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: a FIRS string changed, if you want to update translations? |
14:51 | <andythenorth> | also planetmaker ^ |
14:51 | <andythenorth> | I'm going to tag and release any time tonight, can wait if you want to commit lang updates ;) |
14:52 | * | Kjetil ponders how planetmaker's bowels works.. him being a planet maker and all |
14:52 | * | andythenorth never ponders that kind of thing |
14:52 | <@peter1138> | ask slartibartfast |
14:53 | <@peter1138> | he looks pretty normal though, if you ask me |
15:07 | -!- | Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd |
15:08 | <Wolf01> | evening! |
15:10 | <@Terkhen> | andythenorth: can you point me to the specific string? I don't have much time to commit it myself today |
15:12 | <@Terkhen> | hi Wolf01 |
15:15 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
15:15 | -!- | Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: pull and search SUGAR_PLANTATION in the lang file |
15:19 | <andythenorth> | change is 'Sugarcane Plantation' -> 'Sugar Plantation' |
15:20 | <andythenorth> | STR_FUND_SUGAR_PLANTATION probably needs no change, just the identifier changed |
15:20 | -!- | oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
15:20 | <@Terkhen> | let me see |
15:24 | <@peter1138> | FS#5413 - Crash on Applying NewGRF Changes |
15:24 | <@peter1138> | no really? |
15:24 | <@Terkhen> | andythenorth: done |
15:24 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: thanks :) |
15:24 | <@peter1138> | hmm |
15:24 | <@peter1138> | although i assumed mid-game, heh |
15:27 | -!- | ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
15:44 | -!- | Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd |
15:51 | -!- | Enemy [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
15:51 | -!- | LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 240 seconds.] |
15:53 | -!- | Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
15:53 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] |
15:58 | <@planetmaker> | hm, the FIRS german translation needs more than a quick update :-) |
16:03 | <andythenorth> | oh yes :) |
16:03 | <andythenorth> | you were away ;) |
16:12 | <@peter1138> | hmm, when was basque added |
16:15 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by peter1138 :: r24868 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2012-12-28 21:15:19 UTC) |
16:15 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix (r24797): Update VS projects to include Basque translation. |
16:15 | -!- | chester_ [~chester@95-25-181-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] |
16:36 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by rubidium :: r24869 /trunk/src/lang (11 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-28 21:36:24 UTC) |
16:36 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5411]: Unify the way maglev is written |
16:39 | -!- | DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd |
16:44 | -!- | Nothgrim [52a87b6e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
16:45 | <murr4y> | can you get messages when trains get lost but not when getting older? |
16:45 | -!- | Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
16:45 | -!- | Nothgrim [52a87b6e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] |
16:46 | -!- | Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd |
16:51 | <andythenorth> | is flying grain around wrong? |
16:51 | <andythenorth> | even for a cargo goal GS? |
16:55 | <@planetmaker> | should it be wrong? |
16:56 | <andythenorth> | dunno :) |
16:56 | <andythenorth> | I might need to do it |
16:56 | <andythenorth> | to get silver even |
16:57 | <@peter1138> | ships |
16:57 | <@peter1138> | are so slow |
16:57 | <@peter1138> | that you need either masses of them, or huge ones |
16:58 | <@peter1138> | i'm guessing lots of small ones is better to provide a steadier supply of cargo |
16:58 | <andythenorth> | yup |
17:01 | <@peter1138> | so we need an inccentive |
17:01 | <@peter1138> | -c |
17:01 | <@peter1138> | like not allowing more than 1 ship at a dock |
17:01 | <@peter1138> | hmm |
17:01 | <andythenorth> | that would ruin my game :) |
17:01 | <andythenorth> | but yeah |
17:01 | <andythenorth> | maybe 5 :P |
17:01 | <@peter1138> | and then multi-stop docks |
17:01 | <andythenorth> | or multi-docks |
17:02 | <andythenorth> | not xor :P |
17:02 | <@peter1138> | multi-stop docks! |
17:02 | <@peter1138> | gah, my single coal mine is providing too much coal |
17:03 | <andythenorth> | quadruple boost? |
17:03 | <@peter1138> | so the steel mill stops accepting it |
17:03 | <andythenorth> | oh PBI :) |
17:03 | <@peter1138> | aye |
17:03 | <@peter1138> | well, TAI industries now ;p |
17:03 | <SpComb> | that was terrible |
17:03 | <@peter1138> | lies |
17:03 | <SpComb> | when the secondary idustries stopped accepting |
17:04 | <andythenorth> | gah |
17:05 | <andythenorth> | road vehicle limit :( |
17:05 | <SpComb> | but I don't really get the dbsetxl cargo trains around 1940-50 |
17:05 | <SpComb> | I guess you're supposed to electrify everything by then |
17:15 | <SpComb> | last game I just stopped playing once the BR75 expired, never upgraded, pretty lame |
17:21 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd |
17:21 | <drac_boy> | hi |
17:39 | <@peter1138> | shame that roadstops are called roadstops :S |
17:39 | <drac_boy> | sounds like a bit odd name to me too :/ |
17:40 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
17:40 | <drac_boy> | bye Terkhen |
17:47 | <drac_boy> | anyone here think that "carrying axles" in a locomotive classification would meant unpowered axles for certain? |
17:49 | <+michi_cc> | SpComb: It's called WWII. |
18:02 | <drac_boy> | oh geeze... 550psi boiler on a metre gauge locomotive |
18:02 | * | drac_boy must find more to read |
18:05 | -!- | orudge` is now known as orudge |
18:11 | <andythenorth> | hrm |
18:11 | <andythenorth> | the commuter airport is rather better than most of the other airports |
18:11 | <andythenorth> | as long as you only want small planes |
18:11 | <andythenorth> | and helicopters |
18:12 | <@peter1138> | SL_MAX_VERSION 255 |
18:12 | <@peter1138> | that's... close :p |
18:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: is there an actual reason for that limit? |
18:27 | <@peter1138> | not really, it's a 16 bit value |
18:27 | <@peter1138> | and who can forget the fun of minor versions |
18:29 | -!- | pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
18:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no idea, when i came along that already said "do not use!" |
18:29 | -!- | pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] |
18:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i once suggested to use those for patched builds, but nobody caught onto that idea |
18:30 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
18:30 | <andythenorth> | too many vehicles in game :P |
18:35 | <oskari89> | Is there currently a limit for ID's of rail vehicles? |
18:35 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
18:35 | -!- | Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] |
18:36 | <@peter1138> | oskari89, yes |
18:36 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/multidock.png, hah |
18:36 | <andythenorth> | har har |
18:37 | <@peter1138> | (that's not multiple stations) |
18:37 | <andythenorth> | that would definitely screw my current game :) |
18:37 | <@peter1138> | it screws any game at the moment as there's no code to select a destination |
18:37 | <@peter1138> | to the ship tries to go to st->xy |
18:37 | <@peter1138> | which... aint gonna work |
18:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oskari89: if you use grf version 8, 64k vehicle-ids, and 16k in the articulation callback |
18:40 | <@peter1138> | andythenorth, and it doesn't necessarily mean that ships can't use the same dock concurrently |
18:40 | <andythenorth> | :P |
18:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | # IHR SEID SO LEISE |
18:54 | <andythenorth> | oops |
18:54 | * | andythenorth forgot to go to sleep |
19:12 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
19:20 | <andythenorth> | bye |
19:20 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] |
19:22 | -!- | Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: Vadtec, SpComb^, @Belugas, Markk, ToBeFree, Defaulttinen, +glx, TheMask96, blathijs, murr4y, (+78 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
19:22 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: ivan`, drac_boy, Rhamphoryncus_, DDR, Sturmi, Emmy-Eviltwin, eQualizer, TheMask96, TrueBrain, valhallasw (+50 more) |
19:22 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: brambles, Fuco, tparker, ToBeFree, Kjetil, hnk, PierreW, dotwaffle, SpComb, Guilux (+19 more) |
19:22 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ |
19:22 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ |
19:23 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
19:24 | -!- | Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: SpComb^, @Belugas, Markk, ToBeFree, Defaulttinen, TheMask96, blathijs, murr4y, FlyingFoX, +glx, (+79 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
19:24 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: ivan`, Progman, drac_boy, Rhamphoryncus_, DDR, Sturmi, Emmy-Eviltwin, eQualizer, TheMask96, TrueBrain (+51 more) |
19:24 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: brambles, Fuco, tparker, ToBeFree, Kjetil, hnk, PierreW, dotwaffle, SpComb, Guilux (+19 more) |
19:24 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ |
19:32 | -!- | Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] |
20:12 | -!- | Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
20:14 | -!- | Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
20:17 | * | drac_boy wishes flygon was around |
20:23 | -!- | Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
20:34 | -!- | Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd |
20:54 | -!- | valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
21:01 | -!- | Progman_ [~progman@p57A1BE1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
21:08 | -!- | pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-004-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] |
21:09 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
21:09 | -!- | Progman_ is now known as Progman |
21:21 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd |
21:23 | <drac_boy> | hi snail |
21:23 | <Snail> | hey there |
21:24 | <drac_boy> | how doing? |
21:25 | <Snail> | not too bad, thanks |
21:25 | <Snail> | you? |
21:27 | <drac_boy> | doing ok |
21:27 | <drac_boy> | maybe going to bed soon tho :p |
21:27 | <drac_boy> | been typing in a lot of data cells for a while now :-> |
21:28 | <Snail> | database work? |
21:30 | <drac_boy> | tracking table for grf :-> |
21:30 | <drac_boy> | and btw nice "display" screenshot you posted in the french NG train thread :) |
21:31 | <Snail> | thanks :) |
21:31 | <drac_boy> | the 1975 thing in lower-right makes me thinking the little box is a single-axle railbus luggage trailer |
21:31 | <Snail> | hopefully the NG part will get done before next Xmas |
21:32 | <Snail> | close enough :p |
21:32 | <drac_boy> | heh |
21:32 | <Snail> | the set also has them, but not with that railcar |
21:32 | <drac_boy> | you want know which railcar is my favorite however? :) |
21:32 | <Snail> | sure, what is it? |
21:33 | <drac_boy> | its not french sorry... VT133 or a Pig as its often called for its resemblence |
21:33 | <Snail> | oh, the one with the "nose" that stores the engine? |
21:33 | <drac_boy> | a few were sold originally for narrow gauge too |
21:33 | <drac_boy> | yeah .. double end noses indeed |
21:33 | <Snail> | yeah I know what you're referring to |
21:34 | <drac_boy> | some of them even sported "platforms" to both side of noses as to auger the insufficent rooftop baggage capacity |
21:34 | <Snail> | well, the french NG set has the De Dion JM that's even earlier than that :p but single-nosed |
21:34 | <drac_boy> | either way I just love them for some reason :) |
21:34 | <drac_boy> | driving them probably was not so much fun tho. mechanical transmission |
21:34 | <Snail> | yep... |
21:34 | <Snail> | those railcars were effectively buses on rails |
21:34 | <drac_boy> | snail here's something else to make you scratch your head ever more..... |
21:34 | <Snail> | railbuses :D |
21:35 | <Snail> | ok tell me |
21:36 | <drac_boy> | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Galloping_Goose_4_pre_1950.JPG old bus .. drop onto new frame .. and a freight box to go on as well ... it was driven by the middle truck (3 trucks yeah) through chains...from the manual transmission |
21:36 | <drac_boy> | and don't ask about having to reverse one of these especially through a wye ... talk about neck crinks! |
21:37 | <drac_boy> | there was at least six different forms of these in size and seating capacity ... one thing in common tho was it was sooo much cheaper than a standard steam locomotive with only one baggage/coach car |
21:37 | <Snail> | :O |
21:37 | <drac_boy> | no.4 would had meant it was the 4th model |
21:39 | <Snail> | 3 trucks, but how was the articulation made? |
21:39 | <drac_boy> | snail well the "road" and rear sections were seperate |
21:39 | <Snail> | it looks like the front cab and the rear freight box are stuck together |
21:39 | <drac_boy> | ah...the gap inbetween is the articulation part...one moment... |
21:40 | <Snail> | ah ok, although the gap seems quite small |
21:40 | <drac_boy> | http://drgw.free.fr/RGS/Goose/CRRM-99-054.jpg |
21:40 | <drac_boy> | well the "passenger" body is very narrow compared to the wide freight body |
21:40 | <drac_boy> | so I imagine it still had space to fit |
21:40 | <drac_boy> | btw snail in that second photo you can see where the rear road axle should had been ... the weld job is too visible :P |
21:42 | <Snail> | haha that's true |
21:42 | <Snail> | it's like the body of a small bus (or a large car) put on top of this thing |
21:42 | -!- | KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] |
21:42 | <drac_boy> | snail and the cowcatcher always had its purpose. the line often shared land with cattle grounds .. aside to occassional rockslides |
21:43 | <drac_boy> | there were almost no fences at all back then |
21:43 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A1BE1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
21:43 | <drac_boy> | such a different life..nowaday cowboys always keep their own cows fenced in |
21:44 | <drac_boy> | snail I know its technically a railcar and not railbus but can we complain about the Pacer in uk sharing a lot of road bus components including the turnouts-bouncy suspensions? :) |
21:45 | <Snail> | the Pacer? is it a kind of train? |
21:45 | <Snail> | all I know by that name is the AMC Pacer :D |
21:47 | <drac_boy> | its the name given to class 100 (or was it 101?) dmu |
21:47 | <drac_boy> | later ones were designed more as real railcars instead |
21:51 | <drac_boy> | snail anyway just how many different french things can you draw already? :P |
21:52 | <Snail> | :D |
21:52 | <Snail> | 12 more to go |
21:52 | <Snail> | actually doing one of them as we speak |
21:52 | <Snail> | (that's just for the NG set btw) |
21:54 | <drac_boy> | heh :) |
21:54 | <drac_boy> | I've been drawing some rough metre gauge sprites but not much to really share yet tho |
21:56 | <Snail> | nice! what kind of trains? |
21:58 | <drac_boy> | more or less generic although some of them do have a good resemble to real things such as a centercab locomotive with small hoods being alike to the OBB 1'Bo'1 diesel locomotive |
21:58 | <drac_boy> | or B'B' mallet that could had looked like any of the Saxon mallets |
22:01 | <Snail> | nice :) there were nice mallets in germany and austria |
22:03 | <Snail> | although some of the best were Swiss |
22:04 | <drac_boy> | snail this is pretty much the thing I modelled it after http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Wilder_Robert1.jpg |
22:04 | <drac_boy> | mind the smoke .. I think its just coming to gripe with the heavy standard gauge wagons around the tight curve |
22:04 | <drac_boy> | (you can tell because of how the cab's roof is shadowed |
22:06 | <Snail> | hmm |
22:06 | <Snail> | looks like it's hauling SG wagons on top of NG tracks |
22:06 | <drac_boy> | snail I don't know if french had any name for them but these wagons are on whats called rollenbocks (sorry if I missed a letter or two) |
22:07 | <drac_boy> | basically special low open frame wagon that has standard gauge spacings on top |
22:07 | <Snail> | yeah :) in france they solved the problem differently... they built dual-gauge tracks :D |
22:07 | <drac_boy> | snail there is one unusual thing I did like in france-switzerland tho... |
22:07 | <Snail> | on some tracks there were two sets of rails with the same center, so the inner ones were metric (the engine would run on those) and the outer ones were standard |
22:08 | <drac_boy> | I keep forgetting the name but it was an all-adhersion railroad that had to go through some good mountains ... they didn't want to use racks .. one man finally solved that by making everything powered, even the freight vans |
22:10 | <Snail> | yes, the St-Gervais-Vallorcine railway |
22:10 | <Snail> | 3rd-rail powered, all wagons were mounted on powered tracks to maximize TE |
22:11 | <Snail> | it's in my set recreating exactly the same concept :p |
22:11 | <@peter1138> | maker |
22:11 | <@peter1138> | errr |
22:11 | <drac_boy> | snail heh well as I recall reading they eventually found out not the whole train had to be powered all the times |
22:11 | <drac_boy> | some coaches did still have 3rd rail shoes just for the sake of electric lights |
22:12 | <Snail> | true, some wagons were unpowered |
22:12 | <Snail> | that's why, in the set, you can build a consist of all powered wagons, or just some powered and others not (which would be cheaper) |
22:13 | <Snail> | all that kind of rolling stock is retired now :( |
22:13 | <drac_boy> | heh :) |
22:16 | -!- | glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] |
22:16 | <Snail> | there's some nice Swiss rolling stock too, running on the Swiss branch of that railroa |
22:16 | <Snail> | *railroad |
22:19 | <drac_boy> | I'm going to bed anyway .. see you some next time then snail? |
22:19 | <Snail> | sure! |
22:19 | <Snail> | have a good night |
22:20 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] |
22:55 | -!- | Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4d0869fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd |
23:02 | -!- | Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d822738.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
23:09 | <Stimrol> | hello, is it possible to echoc in a private chat so the server can say something to the user in red color i.e. |
23:10 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] |
23:30 | -!- | Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
--- | Log | closed Sat Dec 29 00:00:33 2012 |