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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-29

---Logopened Sat Dec 29 00:00:33 2012
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02:35<andythenorth>morning
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02:53-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
02:58<Rubidium>moin
03:05<andythenorth>when dragging large ships to 'scrap' icon in depot, it's hard to see drag point
03:05<andythenorth>causes a lot of failed drops
03:06<andythenorth>for me :)
03:06<@Alberth>moin all
03:11*andythenorth is going to be soundly beaten by SV :(
03:11<andythenorth>I have 11m litres / quarter, I need 25m
03:11<andythenorth>of beer
03:14<@Alberth>so you're going to have twice as often drunk? :)
03:14<@Alberth>or twice as much, of course :p
03:16<@Alberth>oh, new chips! very nice andy
03:16<andythenorth>fixed by peter113* :)
03:16<andythenorth>nothing I did ;)
03:17<Pikka>andy: you just need to put a "target" in the middle of the depot icon for the ships
03:18<andythenorth>nice idea
03:19*Alberth extends the thanks to peter
03:20<andythenorth>maybe ships should have the inverse of plane speed factor?
03:31<andythenorth>Pikka: some of the AV8 refits to supplies are interesting wrt capacity
03:31<Pikka>any in particular?
03:32*andythenorth tests
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03:33<andythenorth>Hercules - 40 crates
03:33<andythenorth>seems low
03:33<andythenorth>737 - 90 crates, seems high
03:34<Pikka>hmm
03:34<andythenorth>Avro RJ takes 45, but Fokker F100 takes 80
03:34<andythenorth>similar pax capacity on the last 2
03:34<Pikka>do you see the pattern?
03:35<andythenorth>prop versus jet?
03:35<Pikka>all-cargo plane vs goods-only plane
03:36<andythenorth>ho ho
03:36<Pikka>the all-cargo planes have a check as to whether the cargo is "industrial" or not, and halve the capacity if so
03:36<andythenorth>of course
03:36<Pikka>the others just assume the cargo is non-industrial
03:36<andythenorth>there are enough planes in the set that it makes no difference to my game
03:36<andythenorth>I can find a good plane for every route
03:37<andythenorth>stuck out as odd though :)
03:37<andythenorth>same issue for S-61 helicopter versus chinook / elvis?
03:37<Pikka>probably
03:38<andythenorth>it actually hurts my game with choppers
03:38<Pikka>well
03:38<andythenorth>can't get enough supplies into rigs
03:38<andythenorth>boats ftw
03:39<Pikka>I could change the "industrial" check so that "express" cargos are not industrial...
03:45<andythenorth>o_O
03:46<Pikka>there, that ought to do it
03:47<Pikka>changed the definition of "industrial" in the nfo from "is bulk, piece or liquid" to "is not pax, mail, express or armoured" :)
03:50-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
03:51<Pikka>and banana'd
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03:53<Pikka>wat
03:56<andythenorth>yarp
03:57<andythenorth>shame RL habfis vans are slow :P
03:57<andythenorth>my game is filling up with 67s and freightliners
03:58<Pikka>shameful display
03:58<Pikka>where's the 92s?
03:58<andythenorth>ot some of those
03:58<andythenorth>g
03:58<andythenorth>I need a cargo goal GS that encourages lowest cost per ton mile or something
03:59<andythenorth>that would turn gameplay on its head
03:59<andythenorth>little bit nerdy though, no?
04:00<Pikka>I'm sure you could expand on the idea to make it make sense
04:00<andythenorth>we'd need to impose a serious cost premium on high speed freight
04:00<andythenorth>you like costs
04:00<andythenorth>you do it :P
04:00<Pikka>do I?
04:00<andythenorth>he
04:01<andythenorth>parameter: 'fast freight is very expensive'
04:01<andythenorth>might be better done via infrastructure costs
04:01<andythenorth>measure average ton-speed on each tile :P
04:01*andythenorth had better go shopping
04:02<andythenorth>or there will be wife anger
04:02<andythenorth>biab
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04:37<Stimrol>hello, is it possible to echoc in a private chat so the server can say something to the user in red color i.e.
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04:59<@Terkhen>good morning
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05:29<@peter1138>herpderp
05:30<@Alberth>moin
05:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24870 trunk/src/base_media_func.h (2012-12-29 10:35:33 UTC)
05:35<@DorpsGek>-Change: make the duplicate base set message slightly more verbose, and mention files with wrong md5 checksums or files that are missing explicitly
05:43<@planetmaker>he... downloading bananas updates is a whopping 277MByte...
05:44<Rubidium>zBase ;)
05:45<@planetmaker>yup :-)
05:45<@planetmaker>I'm still tempted to revert the double-sized icons in zBase to standard size :S
05:47<Rubidium>I'm not against that ;)
05:53<Pikka>moin herpderp
05:56<Flygon>Morning
05:56<@planetmaker>moin
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06:02<@peter1138>planetmaker, yes please
06:03<@peter1138>hmm, an av8 update
06:04<@peter1138>actually i don't even use zbase so i dunno why i commented :p
06:04<@planetmaker>s/o added the 2x sprites. Not sure I want to piss that person... and not exactly sure how zeph might like it :D
06:05<@planetmaker>but it's conceptually wrong to have 2x gui sprites there
06:05<@peter1138>yes
06:05<@peter1138>should be separate
06:05<@planetmaker>^^
06:05-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
06:05<drac_boy>hi
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06:08<Pikka>not a huge update, peter1138
06:08*Flygon invites drac_boy to her 'firebox'
06:08<Flygon>If that's not an over the top cumulation, I dunno what is
06:08<Flygon>You called?
06:09<@planetmaker>hm. I still can't change blitter ingame?
06:10<@planetmaker>I must remember some preliminary quacking then ;-)
06:11<@peter1138>can't change bpp either
06:11<@planetmaker>well. same thing nearly :-)
06:12<@planetmaker>I just noticed that zbase with 8bpp-optimized is ... not different than opengfx :-)
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06:13<@planetmaker>hm. and my zbase misses quit a few gui sprites :S
06:14<@planetmaker>vehicle icons in main toolbar. few icons in minimap window
06:14<Ammler>you still are not able to go the main homepage (www.o.o) from a subpage like translator.o.o, are you?
06:14<drac_boy>heh heh
06:14<@planetmaker>not really conveniently, yes
06:16<Ammler>found one, via contact on the footer :-)
06:17<Ammler>any interesting change for package maintainer since 1.2.3?
06:18<Ammler>I guess, I simply add check changelog.txt to the changes file :-)
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06:32<@Alberth>planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1053641#p1053641 seem to be Zephs thoughts on the zbase gui gfx
06:32<Ammler>beta builds fine on the major rpm distros
06:32<@peter1138>i think i might official give up with multi-stop docks ;p
06:33<SpComb>NoDocks
06:34<Ammler>so does ogfx 0.4.6.1
06:34<Pikka>new(air)ports, peter1138?
06:39<@peter1138>noes
06:40<@peter1138>wasn't someone working on that?
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06:42<Pikka>someone
06:42<Pikka>who knows who
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06:46<@Terkhen>yx, there is a repo somewhere
06:50*peter1138 attempts to figure out how yapf works...
06:51<@peter1138>or, indeed, compiles
07:09<Pikka>this AI builds trucks going from a stop that provides coal to a stop that accepts coal
07:09<Pikka>unfortunately, they're the same stop
07:09<Pikka>that's logic for you
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07:14<drac_boy>heh
07:16<@Terkhen>:D
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07:19<@peter1138>nice
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07:45<ZxBiohazardZx>in stations the Callback flags (0b) why do they not contain a flag for "can build bridge over tile"? like Action0 object flags (10) bit 10
07:45<ZxBiohazardZx>eehm 11
07:46<@peter1138>cos you can't build bridges over stations
07:46<ZxBiohazardZx>you cant build them because there is no check to see if you can build over it?
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07:47<ZxBiohazardZx>circular reasoning:P
07:47<ZxBiohazardZx>object flags -> station flags (general flags?)
07:47<Rubidium>hasn't anybody made a patch for bridges over stations?
07:47<@peter1138>yes
07:47<@peter1138>but it doesn't work
07:47<ZxBiohazardZx>^^
07:47<@peter1138>clipping issues
07:48<ZxBiohazardZx>as in sprite fuckups right?
07:48<@peter1138>yup, they flicker all over the place
07:48<ZxBiohazardZx>ah k
07:49<@peter1138>hey, cool, i managed to get both npf & yapf to make ships circle around not finding the dock ;p
07:49<ZxBiohazardZx>haha
07:49<ZxBiohazardZx>what crazy route did you force them to take
07:49<ZxBiohazardZx>i know if you make a U shape the pathfinders struggle
07:49<ZxBiohazardZx>or a G shape
07:50<@peter1138>none, i modified the code
07:50<ZxBiohazardZx>haha
07:50<ZxBiohazardZx>lame
07:50<@peter1138>you're welcome
07:50<ZxBiohazardZx>you can trick them with G shape without tricking the code
07:50<@peter1138>well it wasn't actually my intention
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07:54<Wolf01>hello :D
07:54<andythenorth>New Airports!
07:55<andythenorth>I had a test version of that once
07:55<andythenorth>y*xo was blocked by some design decision iirc
07:55<andythenorth>can't remember what
07:55<Wolf01>new IP class! I had to reconfigure the whole lan
07:56<@peter1138>?
07:56<andythenorth>don't think it was anything horrible, but then y*xo did nml and other things
07:56<andythenorth>oh and RL :P
07:56<@peter1138>IP classes haven't been used for years
07:59<@Alberth>andy: the difference between flying at height 0 and taxiing, but that seems fixable by adding a bit "this path is taxied"
07:59<andythenorth>flying in a helicopter at height 0 is a spooky thing
07:59<andythenorth>did it for a hundred meters or so in Vegas
07:59<andythenorth>very odd
07:59<andythenorth>then it just goes....straight up
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08:04<@peter1138>i suppose i should contact my car insurance people
08:04<@peter1138>as they sent a letter saying they couldn't take a payment
08:04<@peter1138>of £0.00
08:06<andythenorth>bit special
08:06<andythenorth>can't you have your secretary do it?
08:06<@Alberth>how useful :)
08:06<andythenorth>man servant?
08:07<@peter1138>i'd like Stephen Fry as my valet please
08:08<Rubidium>that's quite interesting ;)
08:08<Pikka>stop that at once
08:10<Pikka>http://www.pikkarail.com/junk/granary.png andythenorth
08:11<@peter1138>what we need
08:11<@peter1138>is DLC
08:11<@peter1138>oh wait, we have it :D
08:13<andythenorth>apparently it's very bad that we do
08:13<andythenorth>according to someone the other day
08:13<andythenorth>either he was smoking crack, or I was
08:13<andythenorth>I don't remember, but that's the nature of the beast
08:13<@peter1138>eh?
08:14<Pikka>the way to tell you've been smoking crack is that you can't remember smoking crack?
08:14<andythenorth>somebody popped up here, and declared DLC a sign that OpenTTD is dying
08:14<andythenorth>Pikka: I believe so
08:14<andythenorth>I can't remember
08:14<andythenorth>what is this chart please?
08:14<andythenorth>I refuse to call it graph
08:14<Pikka>you don't have to
08:14<Pikka>it is the maximum production for TaI farms
08:14<andythenorth>organic = don't deliver fertiliser? o_O
08:15<Pikka>I'm pretty sure organic farms still use fertiliser, just organic ones :)
08:15<Pikka>no fertilisers in TaI anyway
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08:15<andythenorth>ah
08:15<andythenorth>thought you had a fertiliser plant that produced from air?
08:16<andythenorth>nvm
08:16<Pikka>I think I did once, but then I didn't
08:16<Pikka>maybe I will
08:16<andythenorth>that happens
08:16<andythenorth>that too
08:16<andythenorth>GM doesn't work out well in pikka-world?
08:16<Pikka>doesn't it?
08:17<Pikka>produces more than anything else. It'll drop below organic if you keep playing to 2150 or so, but who does that?
08:18<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
08:18<Pikka>anyway, I was writing a whole blog entry about it, but in essence: TaI industries have an internal economy, and can, if the conditions are right, upgrade themselves at certain times
08:19<andythenorth>how rare :)
08:19<Pikka>like I said yesterday, I'm completely taking over production changes, shutdowns, recessions etc ;)
08:21<Pikka>http://www.pikkarail.com/junk/coalhole.png
08:21<andythenorth>how will you handle shutdowns?
08:21<andythenorth>I tried about 7 times, and got bored of it
08:23<Pikka>at the beginning of each year, industries will "have an agm" and, based on their internal economy level and other factors, lay out a strategy for the year (which might be increasing or decreasing production, doing an upgrade, etc). if they're in a particularly bad way, their plan might be to shut down, and if their situation hasn't improved by the end of the year, they'll go.
08:23<Pikka>which also means players might have a chance to "save" an industry if they want to
08:25<@planetmaker>a year is not much time
08:25<@planetmaker>how does saving work?
08:25<Pikka>if their situation has improved after a year, they won't shut down
08:25<@planetmaker>what is 'improvement'?
08:25<Pikka>it's complex and I haven't worked it all out yet :P
08:26*planetmaker mumbles game script... ;-)
08:26<Pikka>but it involves how much they've produced and what % shipped, what their estimated resources are if they're a mine, what the global economy is like...
08:26<Pikka>no, not game script
08:27<Pikka>this is the behaviour of individual objects, not the way the player interacts with the game :P
08:28<andythenorth>so if they all choose to close at once....so be it :)
08:28<@Alberth>local decisions will always lead to such problems, imho
08:28<andythenorth>it's ok if that's the design
08:29<andythenorth>it's more...realistic ;)
08:29<Pikka>well, my hope is that in normal play they won't close as much as the defaults do, and when they do close it will be more predictable
08:29<Pikka>however, in recessions... anything could happen. ;)
08:29<@Alberth>andythenorth: except for some reason it never happens in RL :)
08:30<andythenorth>Alberth: never get a mass wave of closures? :o
08:30<@Alberth>never all of them :)
08:30<andythenorth>hmm
08:31<andythenorth>fair point
08:31<andythenorth>although about half of cafes and restaurants have closed in last 4 years here
08:32<@peter1138>that's why you introduce charity shops, and have them expect everything to be delivered free
08:32<andythenorth>reminds me
08:33<andythenorth>I have about 7 bags of charity stuff here
08:33<andythenorth>anyone want used baby toys?
08:33<Pikka>the very thing for my used baby!
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08:47<andythenorth>oh good, A380s for grain
08:47<andythenorth>oh noes
08:47<andythenorth>no refit :P
08:47<andythenorth>747s then
08:49<Pikka>did the patch fix your supplies problem, btw? :)
08:49<Pikka>I didn't actually check it :P
08:49<Rubidium>A225 for grain ;)
08:50<Pikka>no An-225 in av8
08:50<Pikka>nor An-124 neither :}
08:51<andythenorth>hmm
08:51<andythenorth>where's the button for 'update grfs on a running game' :P
08:51<Pikka>I don't know, when I'm updating grfs it's usually by overwriting the old file
08:52<andythenorth>hmm
08:52<andythenorth>the international airport blocks the hangar
08:52<andythenorth>easily
08:52<andythenorth>airports are....intricate
09:00<andythenorth>ho ho
09:00<andythenorth>that ugly train popped up in my game
09:01<Pikka>who?
09:02<andythenorth>powerhaul
09:02<Pikka>oh
09:02<drac_boy>pikka, if you don't mind me asking did you meant to code one in later on or is there any reason for the lack of express mail carriages?
09:02<drac_boy>in ukrs2 btw
09:02<andythenorth>to stop me using them to move beer at 140mph
09:02<andythenorth>of course
09:02<Pikka>naturally
09:03<drac_boy>andythenorth I doubt beer is mail :P
09:03<Pikka>you can put beer in the A380 though
09:03<andythenorth>I may have to
09:04<andythenorth>AV8 seems to be essential for cargo goals with FIRS :P
09:04<Pikka>or perhaps a KC10
09:04<Pikka>beer extender
09:04<andythenorth>FIRS gives all the small-sized jets a purpose :)
09:04<drac_boy>pikka the reason I was wondering about that is because whats the point of allowing the locomotive to carry mail if you can't specify larger capacity?
09:04<andythenorth>because it's amusing
09:05<Pikka>yes
09:05<Pikka>ytrd
09:05<Pikka>also tres
09:05<andythenorth>where would grf be without lol?
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09:09<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3407/breweries.png
09:09<andythenorth>Silicon Valley GS ^ 17 breweries, need to move 25m litres of beer every 3 months :P
09:10<andythenorth>I have 12.5m :(
09:10<Pikka>verdict, you're screwed
09:10<@Alberth>oops :)
09:10<V453000>BEER
09:13<andythenorth>yarp
09:13<andythenorth>I'm looking at losing :(
09:13<andythenorth>losing sucks
09:13<andythenorth>I should scrap these mail EMUs for beer
09:13<andythenorth>they load slowly
09:14<V453000>beer is always better in all regards
09:17<Pikka>beertanker canals
09:17<andythenorth>new route type :P
09:17<andythenorth>pipes
09:17<@peter1138>hurr
09:19<Pikka>ew
09:19<andythenorth>helicopter logging
09:19<andythenorth>is slow
09:19<andythenorth>and expensive
09:21<andythenorth>anybody thought about some new airports? o_O
09:21<Pikka>yes
09:21<Pikka>frequently :)
09:22<andythenorth>nice idea ;)
09:22<andythenorth>I would like 17 helicopter landing pads, on some mud please
09:22<Pikka>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Av8ports_testing
09:23<andythenorth>calls out for an Australian grf
09:23<Flygon>We need a Victoria GRF
09:23<Flygon>Pronto
09:23*andythenorth tries to figure out how to 'deliver' supplies back to a farm by cropduster
09:24<Flygon>Because Victoria is special and unique
09:24<andythenorth>maybe they make their own supplies :P
09:24<Pikka>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/images/8/8d/Muni1_pv.gif
09:24<Pikka>mebe
09:24<Pikka>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/images/2/20/Skyliftring_pv.png \o/
09:25<andythenorth>he
09:25<andythenorth>really need some station graphics for grain
09:25<@peter1138>wut
09:25<andythenorth>but what? o_O
09:25<Pikka>silos?
09:26<@peter1138>av8ports o_O
09:26<Pikka>yes
09:26<andythenorth>silos with the lids off?
09:26<andythenorth>need to see cargo waiting
09:29<V453000>+1
09:35-!-Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi]
09:38<andythenorth>the message history is rather...jumpt
09:38<andythenorth>jumpy *
09:38<andythenorth>it's fun to watch all the 'vehicle is lost' messages appear, then be removed
09:38<andythenorth>but it makes clicking on a specifc news item hard :P
09:42<@peter1138>heh, and now ships actually stop
09:44<andythenorth>o_O
09:44<Pikka>okay, so where's the server at?
09:45<andythenorth>make it one with no airport restrictions :(
09:45<@peter1138>hmm
09:45<andythenorth>noise limits or 2 airports per town :(
09:45<andythenorth>wtf
09:45<andythenorth>I thought the ruling principle was 'thou must do everything in newgrf'
09:45<@peter1138>yeah, two docks works, ships pick the nearest
09:45<Pikka>\o/
09:45<andythenorth>limit it to 2 docks per town
09:45<andythenorth>or a noise limit :P
09:45<Pikka>more like
09:45<drac_boy>andythenorth ships are quiet silly :)
09:46*andythenorth considers patching that
09:46<Pikka>one ship at each dock at a time ;)
09:46<andythenorth>3 ships per dock :)
09:46<andythenorth>or 5
09:46<Pikka>no, 1!
09:46<drac_boy>andythenorth then you'll have to produce a 1x1 sized dock if its only going to be 5
09:46<andythenorth>option
09:46<Pikka>and the rest sit offshore and not all on top of one another
09:46<andythenorth>stupid options :P
09:47<ZxBiohazardZx>multiple docks for same station?
09:47<@peter1138>ideally i should make the ships go to the end of the dock
09:47<@peter1138>but
09:48<@peter1138>i can't figure it out :S
09:49<andythenorth>herp
09:49<Pikka>no andy
09:49*andythenorth looks at losing the game
09:49<Pikka>the ruling principle is "you must do everything in game script"
09:49<Pikka>"even though you can only have one game script at a time"
09:49<andythenorth>that's a new one on me :)
09:50<Pikka>;)
09:50<andythenorth>seriously I might have to remove this limit of 2 airports
09:50<andythenorth>although it's not going to get me another 12m litres of beer within 1 year :P
09:50<Pikka>true this
09:51<Pikka>hurry up so that peter can start the server :)
09:51<@peter1138>wut
09:51<andythenorth>server games don't match baby time :P
09:51<andythenorth>no pause
09:51<Pikka>any time is baby time
09:52<andythenorth>not legally after 7.35pm
09:52<andythenorth>not in my house
09:52<andythenorth>currently
09:52<andythenorth>this is a recent development ;P
09:52<Pikka>hooray
09:52<andythenorth>I should just pause all my final-leg trucks for 12 months
09:52<@peter1138>hmm, now, how to direct the pathfinder to the END of the dock instead of the tile that's actually a slope?
09:52<andythenorth>build up 50,000t of grain at the transfer station :P
09:53<andythenorth>then deliver it all
09:53<@peter1138>might be simpler to make the stop point to the bit that sticks out
09:53<Pikka>"the bit that sticks out"
09:53<Pikka>this is a technical nautical term
09:53<@peter1138>but actually i don't know where it gets the xy from :S
09:54<@peter1138>it's all kinda magic
09:54<@peter1138>Pikka, yes
09:55<@peter1138>600 lines of patch so far:
09:55<@peter1138>:S
09:55<Rubidium>peter1138: dock_tile?
09:55<@peter1138>gone
09:57<Rubidium>Ship::GetOrderStationLocation did set the tile in front of the dock_tile
09:58<Rubidium>as the destination of the path finder
10:00<@peter1138>yeah but that's gone
10:01<@peter1138>trying to figure out multistops
10:01<@peter1138>the pathfinder finds the nearest tile that is in a rectangle containing all the stops
10:02<@peter1138>this doesn't seem to account for the fact that that tile mayn't be a station tile
10:02<@peter1138>but it works anyway
10:03<@peter1138>at least, for road vehicles. hmm.
10:04<@peter1138>indeed, my ship nows goes to the corner of the rectangle, and then circles :D
10:04<@peter1138>i remember at one point multistops were allocated in advance and the stop was used as dest_tile itself
10:04<@peter1138>but that was changed at some point, so that dest_tile just points to the station
10:04<@peter1138>and i see no reservation, just "is it in use"
10:07<andythenorth>think I'm going to take the easier option with this GS, and lose :P
10:14-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
10:14<Pikka>good plan andy
10:18<@peter1138>hmm, reading pikka's blog at last :p
10:18<@peter1138>maintenance costs
10:19<Pikka>ew
10:19<@peter1138>did that get fixed?
10:19<Pikka>did what get fixed?
10:19<@peter1138>airports used by one aircraft cost the same as airports used by fifty
10:19<Pikka>nope
10:20<Pikka>there's a parameter in av8 to reduce the airport maintanance costs
10:20<@peter1138>might be interesting to modify the cost based on number of aircraft taht stop there
10:20<Pikka>sounds like a job for newgrf ;)
10:20<@peter1138>not really, it's still unbalanced as you wrote
10:21<@peter1138>i built a ship route on a server once
10:21<@peter1138>only to find the ships costs several billion to operate
10:21<Pikka>well, ideally newgrf(air)ports will provide a wider range of airports
10:21<@peter1138>cos the server owner didn't like ships or something?
10:21<Pikka>with a wider range of capacities and associated costs
10:21<@peter1138>presumably cos you can spam them
10:22<Pikka>what's that got to do with the price of potatoes, though?
10:23<Pikka>"let's have no newgrfs in case people make newgrfs that do silly things"?
10:23<@peter1138>hm
10:25<drac_boy>bit of dumb graphics question but I presume that vehicle lists can be of a different sprite than the normal horizontal side view sprite used?
10:25<Pikka>yes they can
10:25<drac_boy>thanks, wanted to be sure that was what I had thought
10:30<+michi_cc>Pikka: During development I asked several times for comments on the maintenance costs on the forums, but back then nobody could be bothered to test or at least answer, so you (all) got what I decided at random.
10:31<Pikka>no complaints from me, michi_cc, I'm sure the costs are fine for the default aircraft and the default playstyle
10:31<Pikka>but for av8 and TaI I need to ramp them down a bit which - thankfully - I can do. :)
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10:41<V453000>drac_boy: graphics block -> purchase: spriteset;
10:42<drac_boy>mm
10:50<@peter1138>michi_cc, doesn't mean it can't be discussed now :p
10:50<drac_boy>V453000 and Action A could be used to redraw a base sprite rather thsn replacing it .. for the sake of savegame compactibility too?
10:51<V453000>uhm do you use NML?
10:51<drac_boy>nfo actually
10:51<V453000>cant help you there, I just wonder why though
10:52<+michi_cc>peter1138: Indeed, but that means might actually have to do some tests ;) I'm certainly not going to stop anybody who wants to commit some modified factors.
10:52<+michi_cc>s/might/somebody might/
10:52<V453000>NML makes coding so much easier
10:54<Pikka>they're both easy if you know what you're doing
10:55<Pikka>NML is marginally easier if you don't, perhaps.
10:55<@peter1138>the key to nfo is documentation
10:55<@peter1138>and sensible formatting
10:56<Pikka>yes
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10:59<andythenorth>the key to nfo is escapes :P
11:00<andythenorth>and a templater with constants
11:00<andythenorth>and an on-call support contract
11:00<andythenorth>:P
11:00<@peter1138>no, escapes are meaningless without good formatting and comments
11:01<andythenorth>I wasn't arguing about those :)
11:02<drac_boy>heh heh
11:06<andythenorth>ok, andythenorth lost the SV game :P
11:06<andythenorth>do I want to play another 40 years for silver?
11:06<Pikka>not big surprise
11:06<andythenorth>errm, no thanks to that SV :)
11:06<Pikka>I want to see what your multiplayer games are like
11:07<andythenorth>not big surprise due to my skills wut?
11:07<Pikka>scuddles will come too
11:07<Pikka>not big surprise owing to the fact that you told us hours ago you were going to lose
11:07<bolli>Out of asking is there any way to make a true "Loading" sprite work? So it shows only when at a station?
11:07<Pikka>yes
11:08<bolli>Whats the property called? :p
11:08<Pikka>it isn't, it predates variables
11:09<Pikka>it's within the action 2
11:09<bolli>*in NML
11:09<andythenorth>bolli it's probably the spriteset or such
11:09<andythenorth>one min
11:10<bolli>Sorry, should have said that up front :p
11:10<Pikka>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Spritegroup
11:10<Pikka>"Vehicles take two different series of spritesets; loading is used when the vehicle is loading within the station, loaded is used when the vehicle is travelling."
11:11<andythenorth>similar format to action 2
11:11<andythenorth>for obv. reasons
11:11<bolli>Right, thanks :)
11:11<andythenorth>will I teach my kids nfo?
11:11<bolli>That suddenly makes the spritegroup settings make sense :)
11:12<Pikka>probably
11:12<bolli>Aha thanks, got it working now :)
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11:14<andythenorth>Pikka: my GS play style is 'as many ships and RVs as possible'
11:14<andythenorth>which isn't always a winning strategy
11:14<andythenorth>and I'm not very good at the coop rules about signal placement, train size etc
11:15<Pikka>ew coop rules
11:15<andythenorth>it's more fun to lose with a silly strategy than win with pure efficiency
11:15*andythenorth is a bit like an English person
11:15<V453000>it isnt about rules, but about reasons
11:15<Pikka>believe me, if you get scuddles on a server there'll be nothing but silly strategy
11:15<V453000>aka if you need the throughput
11:15<@peter1138>scuddles :D
11:17<andythenorth>V453000: if we were concerned about throughput, the optimum vehicle would be 1t capacity
11:17<andythenorth>1 piece flow ;)
11:17<V453000>not exactly :)
11:19<V453000>it might not be your aim to get a high traffic, the traffic just happens and you need to deal with it
11:22<andythenorth>it must be contagious as a strategy
11:22<andythenorth>all the stations in my last game are 8 tiles
11:22<andythenorth>:P
11:23<andythenorth>and most trains 8 tiles long
11:23<andythenorth>very coop-esque
11:23<andythenorth>only twice the usual size
11:23*andythenorth still lost
11:23<andythenorth>anyone sending translations for FIRS? I should release the non-broken version I have here
11:23<andythenorth>planetmaker: ^
11:23<andythenorth>Alberth: ^
11:24<@planetmaker>I guess I c/should have a look. Will do now
11:25<andythenorth>does anyone read the commuity submitted lang files before adding them?
11:25*andythenorth hasn't been
11:25<andythenorth>could be anything :P
11:25<andythenorth>executable python stuff :P
11:25<andythenorth>who knows :P
11:28<@peter1138>just like that patch i gave you?
11:28<andythenorth>yeah
11:28<andythenorth>and every port and every python module I install
11:28<andythenorth>where's the security eh?
11:31<@peter1138>andythenorth, how does the pathfinder find a road stop?
11:32<andythenorth>afaict, magic
11:33<andythenorth>I have read some road code, but it would take a day more reading before I understood it :P
11:33<andythenorth>it took me 6 months to understand industry_cmd.cpp :P
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11:36<@peter1138>logically the tileindex of a roadstop must be used, but i can't see it :S
11:36<andythenorth>who wrote the road stuff?
11:36<andythenorth>drive-thru stops?
11:36<andythenorth>lego roller coastr http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QCR-fKfcawA
11:39<andythenorth>now my game is finished, I should fix some newgrfs :P
11:40<Pikka>is it 7:35 yet? :P
11:40<andythenorth>if only
11:40<andythenorth>food + bath between now and then
11:40<Pikka>ah :)
11:40*andythenorth looks at his brisbane clock
11:40<andythenorth>2.40am?
11:40<Pikka>yes
11:40<andythenorth>I have one on my desktop :P
11:41<andythenorth>by some coincidence our main bases are Bristol and Brisbane
11:41<andythenorth>I'm now looking for more cities beginning "Bris...'
11:42<@peter1138>heh
11:42<SpComb>scuddles madness?
11:42<@peter1138>i found my populous box
11:42<Pikka>well there's another Brisbane in San Fransisco, but they pronounce it funny
11:42<@peter1138>complete with manual
11:42<@peter1138>and 3.5" floppy
11:42<andythenorth>orly?
11:42<@peter1138>back when complete games fit a single floppy
11:42<@peter1138>1989 :S
11:42<andythenorth>I want somewhere in CaliforniA
11:42<andythenorth>winter sun
11:43<andythenorth>Brisbane is too far, and has the disadvantage of being 40' and 98% humidity
11:43<andythenorth>37' would be ok :P
11:43<Pikka>not often 40
11:44<Pikka>give it another30 years then maybe we'll have a couple of weeks a year when it hits 40, at the moment it's a couple of days.
11:47<andythenorth>it has been over-dramaed to me ;)
11:47<Pikka>it's also basically what aircon is for ;)
11:48<andythenorth>hmm
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11:52<andythenorth>Pikka: who can run a server?
11:52<Pikka>peter1138!
11:52<@peter1138>i what?
11:53<Rubidium>peter already has a server: fizzle.org ;)
11:54<Pikka>well
11:54<Pikka>maybe andy then :P
11:55<@peter1138>hmm
11:55<@peter1138>i can
11:55<andythenorth>i can haz not
11:55<@peter1138>what version?
11:55<@peter1138>heh, all my working trees are r15000 or so
11:56<andythenorth>'latest'
11:56<andythenorth>:P
11:56<SpComb>svn up && make
11:56<@peter1138>including this one that increases the cargo type limit
11:56<@peter1138>andythenorth, 'Latest' is not a valid version ;-)
11:56<@peter1138>silly subject
11:57<Pikka>nightly I suppose
11:57<andythenorth>o/c it is valid :P
11:57<andythenorth>I have a timestamp on my post
11:57<andythenorth>ow silly
11:57<andythenorth>+h
11:57<Pikka>who silly?
11:57<andythenorth>the topic
11:58<@peter1138>checking build system type... i486-linux-gnu
11:58<@peter1138>YEAH BOY
11:59<@peter1138>i need a config
12:01<SpComb>cat /def/urandom | grep 'breakdowns*off' > openttd.cfg
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12:02<andythenorth>change the airport limit :P
12:02<andythenorth>biab
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12:04<@Alberth>andythenorth: dutch translation of firs looks ok to me, judging by the output of my script
12:09<Pikka>andy's config probably
12:12<Kjetil>Anyone knows how lightsignalet on real railroads work ?
12:12<@Alberth>with light, and electricity, but that's about it :p
12:13<Kjetil>haha
12:22<@Alberth>andythenorth: The one plantation string you mentioned needed update in Dutch too; pushed
12:23<bolli>What do you mean by "lightsignalet"? :p
12:25<@planetmaker>andythenorth, is biorefinery string correct with production description?
12:25<bolli>Kjetil: http://www.signalbox.org/
12:26<@planetmaker>independent of the double "per" in it?
12:27*andythenorth searches for birorefinery
12:27<andythenorth>not correct :P
12:27<andythenorth>makes pens
12:28<andythenorth>planetmaker: double per will be fixed. otherwise correct afaict
12:29<@planetmaker>ok
12:29<@planetmaker>thx
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12:32<SpComb>peter1138: so where's the server?
12:32<@peter1138>there
12:34<SpComb>I don't see it!
12:35<@peter1138>well
12:35<@peter1138>http://www.openttd.org/en/server/65901
12:35<SpComb>oh, there
12:36<@peter1138>nice that it still links to grfgrawler instead of bananananananas
12:36<SpComb>my newstations 0.51 has the same date, but md5sum mismatch
12:36<@peter1138>oh mb you
12:37<SpComb>say no more, say no more
12:38<Pikka>dos v windows?
12:38<Pikka>which does peter have?
12:38<@peter1138>i just downloaded it again and get the same one
12:38<@peter1138>there's only one version
12:38<Pikka>there's two files on mb's website
12:38<@peter1138>different filename
12:38<@peter1138>newstats.grf
12:38<@peter1138>is what i have
12:38<Pikka>ok
12:39<Pikka>dos it are then
12:39<@planetmaker>no point in getting windows versions really :-)
12:39<@planetmaker>(nor in making those :D)
12:39<@peter1138>not unless you use ttdpatch
12:39<@peter1138>(lol)
12:39<SpComb>1214dd7f5fd214aaf7e4a83a3c8226a9 newstatsw.grf
12:40<SpComb>oh, I'm a windows noob then
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12:40<Pikka>1880 start? I assume this isn't the 7 year challenge? :)
12:40<@peter1138>no gamescript on
12:40<Pikka>oh :)
12:40<@peter1138>i've er
12:40<@peter1138>never used them
12:41<andythenorth>NoCarGoal :P
12:41<andythenorth>meh, I'll have to find grfs and crap
12:42<@peter1138>should all be in bananas except newstats
12:43<SpComb>aah, how do you close the console
12:43<andythenorth>~
12:44<@peter1138>`
12:44<SpComb>I just typed a ~ into it
12:44<@peter1138>o_O
12:44<andythenorth>esc
12:44<@peter1138>use the menu
12:45<SpComb>quite
12:45<SpComb>did openttd have customizeable hotkeys yet?
12:45<andythenorth>yup
12:47<andythenorth>hmm
12:47*andythenorth contributes to the non-Bananas virus by downloading new stations
12:48<andythenorth>it's nothing against MB
12:48<@peter1138>tai stations
12:48<andythenorth>it's just stupid
12:48<@peter1138>or ukrs station
12:48<@peter1138>who knows
12:48<andythenorth>he doesn't like stations
12:48<andythenorth>the australian one
12:48<andythenorth>he thinks the spec smells of wee
12:49<andythenorth>hnn
12:49<andythenorth>version mismatch
12:49<andythenorth>apparently not 'latest' :P
12:50*andythenorth plays the hg version number guessing game
12:57<SpComb>that was fast!
12:57<SpComb>who won?
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12:58<Pikka>you won!
12:58<Scuddles>did he
12:58<Pikka>no
12:59<Pikka>andy: also, stations have been done, I don't think there's much new I'd bring to it :P
12:59<Scuddles>except for coal tipplers and water tanks
12:59<andythenorth>Pikka: evil :P
13:00<Pikka>Scuddles: you draw them, andy will code them.
13:00<andythenorth>but yeah, limited gameplay interest
13:00<andythenorth>I've outsourced my station coding :)
13:00<andythenorth>I did try
13:00<Scuddles>I'd rather a gollotspinnels
13:00<andythenorth>but the spec is gollotspinnels
13:00<Scuddles>D;
13:00<Pikka>yes
13:01*SpComb googles for an ukrs cheatsheet
13:01<andythenorth>the server can haz gone away?
13:01<Pikka>changing some parameters
13:01<V453000>ukrs cheatsheet? :d
13:01<SpComb>is there something wrong with cobnobs or whatever they were?
13:01<@peter1138>hmm
13:01<@peter1138>which is the latest ukrs addons?
13:02<Pikka>they're just a bit tiny and outdated by 1880, spcomb
13:02<Pikka>"dreadnought" peter
13:02<Scuddles>dreadnought reporting
13:02<Pikka>I forgot to increment the version number
13:02<Pikka>whoops
13:02<@peter1138>ah, that'll explain it
13:03<@peter1138>ok
13:03<Pikka>oops
13:04<Pikka>it's now saying ukrs2 1.01 :}
13:04<@peter1138>wut
13:04<Pikka>oh
13:04<Pikka>maybe because the addon set
13:04<Pikka>I think it may be a bananas "feature"
13:05<Pikka>if you say a grf is required for another grf, it thinks that the version that existed when you told it it was required is the one it needs
13:05<@peter1138>oh
13:05<@peter1138>anyway the server is back on
13:05<Pikka>so even though you've got 1.03, it thinks it needs to download 1.01 as well for the addon set
13:05<@peter1138>should be cc'd now
13:05<SpComb>for ever and ever more?
13:05<@peter1138>hopefully
13:06<@peter1138>you only get to see the parameters as numbers in game :S
13:06<Pikka>do you?
13:07<Pikka>I see the full parameters window
13:07<Pikka>maybe because I have the developer switch on
13:07<@peter1138>oh
13:07<@peter1138>no
13:07<@peter1138>i didn't click on 'show parameters' :S
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13:20*andythenorth is stumped
13:20<andythenorth>I've played hg version guessing
13:20<andythenorth>but can't compile an ottd version that matches the server :P
13:22<andythenorth>hg summary tells me I'm at svn rev 24867
13:24<@peter1138>yeah maybe cos hg isn't svn?
13:24<@peter1138>easier to just... download it from the website?
13:24<V453000>NO. :D
13:27-!-oh8hth [~jsiren@188-67-36-204.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
13:27<oh8hth>good evening
13:28<andythenorth>so latest means 'latest binary', not 'tip'
13:28<andythenorth>:(
13:28<andythenorth>who would've guessed?
13:28<Pikka>welcome to "latest is not a version" :D
13:29<Pikka>nightly edition
13:29<andythenorth>well indeed
13:31<oh8hth>could somebody help: I'm writing a gamescript and I need to display currency numbers in the goal window, what codes do I need to use? esp. with negative values?
13:32<oh8hth>for now I've only managed to get any results with {NUM}, and negative values roll over (I ended up doing abs(value) and slapping on a minus sign).
13:34<oh8hth>the values are from the GSCompany class mostly.
13:34<Rubidium>it should do that; {NUM} should be perfectly fine for displaying negative numbers
13:34<oh8hth>hmm.
13:35<Rubidium>though you're better of using {CURRENCY_LONG} or {CURRENCY_SHORT}
13:35<oh8hth>ah.
13:35<oh8hth>i didn't know about those.
13:35<oh8hth>thanks.
13:37<Rubidium>though I'm not sure that solves your issue
13:37<Rubidium>what does passing -1 yield?
13:38<oh8hth>what am i doing wrong: i pass -1 to GSText as a parameter to {NUM} - the display ends up being two's complement of -1 (i.e. more than 2 billion). OpenTTD version is 1.3.0-beta1.
13:39<oh8hth>the {NUM} being in english.txt.
13:40<Pikka>looks like all I need to do is add a CTT
13:45<oh8hth>testing; CURRENCY_SHORT still displays negative cash (obtained with GSCompany.GetBankBalance(company_id);) as £2,147M.
13:47<Pikka>nope, there's something quite broken
13:47<Pikka>might want to load the older version from bananas, peter1138 :)
13:48<Rubidium>oh8hth: yeah, it looks like the code is buggy somewhere
13:48<oh8hth>should i submit a bug report?
13:48<@planetmaker>andythenorth, if you want to join server, you need svn or download
13:49<Rubidium>oh8hth: yes please
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24871 /trunk/src/lang (44 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-29 18:49:17 UTC)
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:49<@DorpsGek>arabic_egypt - 44 changes by kasakg
13:49<@DorpsGek>catalan - 33 changes by Bassals
13:49<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 311 changes by mrtux
13:49<@DorpsGek>finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
13:49<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 6 changes by alyr
13:49<@DorpsGek>icelandic - 4 changes by Stimrol
13:49<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 1 changes by fanioz
13:49<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
13:49<@DorpsGek>latvian - 36 changes by Parastais
13:49<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 70 changes by Inspirion, cuthbert
13:49<@DorpsGek>polish - 1 changes by wojteks86
13:49<oh8hth>Rubidium, will do.
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13:57<Pikka>peter1138, andythenorth spcomb Scuddles: http://www.pikkarail.com/tai_industry.grf
14:00<Pikka>and on bananas
14:03<andythenorth>planetmaker: why can't builds from a hg repo join MP?
14:06<SpComb>what happen
14:06<Rubidium>(impersonating planetmaker) because there's no way to determine whether the build is unmodified, and as such the hg revision and not the svn revision is used to construct the openttd version
14:07<@peter1138>does not work
14:07<Pikka>whoops
14:07<Pikka>start again again :D
14:07<Pikka>sorry
14:07<@peter1138>:S
14:07<Pikka>my fault for publishing a dud grf
14:08<oskari89>One could cheat that way :P
14:09<@peter1138>he did
14:09<@peter1138>hmm, the map is the same
14:09<@peter1138>but it's blankety blank
14:10<Scuddles>look what you did D;
14:10<SpComb>did you save?
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14:19<@planetmaker>:-)
14:21<oh8hth>ok, bug reported: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5419
14:22<oh8hth>apply whatever pesticide you see fit :)
14:24<Rubidium>oh8hth: thank you
14:25<andythenorth>10 mins until this child is asleep
14:25<andythenorth>probly
14:25<oh8hth>on a completely unrelated note, i and mr oskari89 were discussing the topic of switching/shunting/marshalling/choose your dialect, as in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=43972&start=40#p819071
14:27<oh8hth>now, i don't know if this idea is old and shot down many times, but would it be possible to have a type of station (in a NewGRF, for ex.) that would manage shunting within itself?
14:27<oh8hth>so that whatever pathfinder were in use would see it as a station.
14:28<andythenorth>make it a depot
14:28<oh8hth>that too.
14:28<andythenorth>and just script changing the consist ;)
14:28<andythenorth>maybe GS can manipulate consists? o_O
14:28<oh8hth>then you'd only need the visuals.
14:28<oh8hth>hmm.
14:28<andythenorth>nah, you don't get those
14:28<oskari89>GUI
14:28<andythenorth>it's a game not a train simulator
14:28<oh8hth>that's true.
14:28<andythenorth>train sims exist elswhere
14:29<andythenorth>actually I may be wrong
14:29<andythenorth>maybe it is a train sim
14:29<oh8hth>:)
14:29<andythenorth>I've never really been clear on that point tbh
14:29<oh8hth>personally i take it as a game :)
14:29<oskari89>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=43972&start=60#p995489
14:30<oskari89>I have some consept on that scripting there
14:30<andythenorth>I think it's a game, but many of the most vociferous / prolific forum posters think it's a train sim afaict
14:30<oskari89>Its both i think
14:30<oskari89>Not a Railroad tycoon, neither MSTS or TS2013
14:31<oh8hth>as a train or economy sim it's not much, what with the warped concept of time, speed, and money, but as a game it's loads of fun and very addictive :)
14:31<andythenorth>it's a pretty poor train sim
14:32<oh8hth>i think it needs the minimum of train, or any, sim aspects to keep it fun
14:32<V453000>realism!
14:32<andythenorth>I haven't played a train sim, ever, but I don't see OpenTTD providing something like this http://www.railsimulator.com
14:32<V453000>ofc not
14:32<oskari89>No, it's not that, it's on 2.5D :)
14:33<oh8hth>i like to play with openbve, and i think it's fun as well, but i wouldn't call for that kind of realism in openttd.
14:35<@peter1138>not played that in ages
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15:13<oh8hth>sorry about my abrupt silence earlier, internet service died
15:13<oh8hth>now on joikuspot
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15:16<V453000>random_switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, wtf1, bitmask(TRIGGER_VEHICLE_SERVICE, TRIGGER_VEHICLE_ANY_LOAD, TRIGGER_VEHICLE_UNLOAD_ALL )){-stuff-} <--- this magical lady should randomize everytime a train either enters depot, loads anything, or unloads everything?
15:17-!-bolli1 [~Sam@143.31.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
15:17<@planetmaker>yes
15:18<@planetmaker>let me guess, V453000: it doesn't
15:19<V453000>well yeah :(
15:19<V453000>the servicing seems to be borkd
15:19<@planetmaker>servicing? The other two work?
15:20-!-bolli [~Sam@119.105.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20<V453000>trying those now
15:20<V453000>but it does randomize when purchasing the vehicle
15:20<@planetmaker>yes
15:21<@planetmaker>I was actually testing something there the other day. And found it working oddly or badly. But didn't have enough time to investigate to the end
15:21<V453000>alright the other two are bork too
15:21<V453000>so it only randomizes when purchasing vehicle, conditions are ignored somehow
15:21<@planetmaker>do you have small grf (just one wagon) I could quickly play with?
15:21<V453000>hmf, just code
15:22<V453000>I dont have sources for my small test newgrfs here, sorry
15:22<@planetmaker>I mean the code for one wagon which compiles :D. If not, no problem. Got source here, too which I can cut down
15:22<V453000>oh sure, one sec
15:23<@planetmaker>well, with lang + pic so that I can test :D
15:23<@planetmaker>s/pic/sprite
15:24<@planetmaker>I just don't dare to read through the de-compiled shit of a full blown newgrf with zillions of engines :-)
15:24<V453000>I have them all over the stuff, please substitute with some random spriteset/strings http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2009/
15:24<V453000>well yeah I understand that :)
15:25<V453000>this just has a few switches/stuff you need to disable
15:25<V453000>sprites dont really matter in this case
15:25<V453000>The idea of the thing is "Engine randomizes its power based on its mood" ... yes, I know, normal :))
15:26<V453000>so what I intend to do is trigger at either of those three conditions
15:26<@planetmaker>sprites matter... for it to compile
15:26<V453000>well yeah but just load some random white space :d
15:26<@planetmaker>but don't worry. I take the ussr set to test :D
15:26<V453000>ok :)
15:27<@planetmaker>they should release it, though. it's nice
15:27<V453000>there was some major wtf when we tried it, but I dont remember what it was
15:27<V453000>something with the various rails I think
15:27<@planetmaker>yes, unfortunately it provides rails in the same set
15:28<+michi_cc>V453000: I don't think random_switch works as you think it does.
15:28<V453000>:d
15:28<V453000>I cant randomize power? :)
15:28<V453000>I mean, when wagons can change sprites...
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15:30<V453000>care to clarify a bit please? :)
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15:32<+michi_cc>Not this way. Randomization is basically like a call to a pseudo-CB 1 which updates the random bits of the vehicle.
15:33<V453000>sounds pseudo :D
15:34<@planetmaker>michi_cc, yes. But the random_switch in NML is supposed to work that way as shown. Returning the values as indicated with the probability 1/n before the ":", where n = sum (numbers before ":")
15:34<@planetmaker>or I misunderstand it as well :D
15:34<@planetmaker>re-randomization should happen as indicated by the bitmask given in the switch argument
15:35<+michi_cc>Well, I'd have to see the NFO translation to see how NML random_switch relates to random action 2.
15:37<+michi_cc>The re-randomization runs with CB == 0x01. No idea what NML routes that to.
15:38-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
15:38<drac_boy>hi
15:40<@peter1138>randomisation was a bit... hairy to figure out what it does
15:40<@peter1138>and i've forgotten :p
15:43<V453000>:(
15:51*Pikka nudges peter1138
15:51<Pikka>turn off inflation :P
15:52<Pikka>ta
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15:59<+michi_cc>planetmaker: As far as I can see NML creates code that correctly evaluates the random_switch for the power, but that never enters the random switch during re-randomization. The random_switch is only processed during handling of CB 36 (re-random runs as CB 01). Can't say if this is a NML bug or just wrong NML code.
16:00<+michi_cc>Without re-random, the random bits never change.
16:00<skassem>why
16:00<skassem>I play openttd
16:01<@Alberth>we don't know why you play OpenTTD
16:01<skassem>why van
16:01<V453000>what that basically means is that the random_switch should not work like I want it to?
16:01<+michi_cc>V453000: "Note that re-randomizing is done only during a special callback, random_trigger. This callback is called whenever a trigger event occurs. As a consequence, it's absolutely necessary for the random_switch block to be in executed during this callback, or trigger-based re-randomizing won't take place. Also, the callback may not fail (end with CB_FAILED), so return an arbitrary value or even a sprite set instead. This return value is not use
16:01<+michi_cc>d anywhere."
16:02<skassem>because I like to play it
16:02<+michi_cc>Translation: Read docs more carefully ;)
16:02<@Alberth>skassem: good reason :)
16:03<drac_boy>heh heh
16:03<skassem>hey I play samce day
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16:03<V453000>michi_cc: hm, so how should I solve the issue?
16:04<V453000>reading docs better, noted :)
16:04<+michi_cc>"random_trigger: monowtf1_power;"
16:04<+michi_cc>If you need more than one random_switch, you have to find a way to chain them somehow.
16:04<skassem>ok
16:05<V453000>ohhh
16:05<V453000>let me try
16:07<V453000>hm, where do I put that actually?
16:07<+michi_cc>Where you put all other callbacks.
16:08<skassem>what your version first?
16:09<skassem>I not have it now
16:10<V453000>oh x_x I think I have a complete brain eclipse, thanks michi
16:11<@Alberth>your brain has an IDE? :)
16:11<+michi_cc>V453000: As an aside: trigger on depot should work, but I don't think OTTD re-queries power during vehicle loading, i.e. the cached power is not updated.
16:11<V453000>I dont think my brain runs electricity, somewhere around stone age
16:11<skassem>me to
16:11<V453000>alright I will see what other triggers could I use
16:12<V453000>the station one is a shame though
16:12<V453000>I will try for sure
16:12<V453000>compiling..
16:12<oh8hth>my brain tends to bluescreen, so i woulnd't install eclipse on it
16:12<+michi_cc>Well, it will re-randomize, but only get the new power whenever the cache is updated (maybe it is updated somewhere duing loading, but maybe not. Look up the source :)
16:13<V453000>interesting :)
16:13<V453000>wtf incoming :D
16:13<skassem>im download openttd
16:13<V453000>omfg it works michi :DD
16:14<V453000>all 3 triggers work
16:14<V453000>thanks so much :)
16:14<V453000>this is going to be awesome
16:16<skassem>Im the multplayer ghtnow.
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16:18<V453000>hm, if I wanted to take this to the next level and check the vehicle power, resulting in various sprites, would that work?
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16:18<V453000>I cant see any variable like power :(
16:18-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
16:18<@peter1138>psst, var 25
16:19<V453000>that hints nfo reading time of hell
16:22<V453000>hm, where should I search for that var peter? :(
16:22<V453000>like which action or something
16:22<bolli>Hmm. Has anybody ever gotten openttd working on ARM? :P
16:22<@peter1138>yes, that's nothing special
16:23<bolli>ok :)
16:23<bolli>I can see if my newly arrived pi can do it...
16:23<@peter1138>apt-get install openttd
16:23<@peter1138>pretty simple
16:23<bolli>:P
16:23<@peter1138>(and no, it's not very fast)
16:23<bolli>That presumes I have an internet connection...
16:23-!-bolli1 [~Sam@143.31.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:24<@peter1138>well maybe the linux version is okay
16:24<@peter1138>the risc os port was horribly slow
16:24<bolli>I got the arch version...
16:24<bolli>*I have
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16:25<@peter1138>which 'arch'?
16:26<bolli>the pi orientated one :P
16:26<@peter1138>?
16:26<bolli>Infact its just Arch Linux for ARM
16:26<drac_boy>peter...arch is a distro name too btw?
16:26<V453000>I cant seem to find var35 :(
16:26<bolli>http://www.archlinux.org
16:26<@peter1138>prop 25, might not be useful, dunno
16:27<@peter1138>arch could be... an arch
16:27<@peter1138>or could be short for architecture (system type, etc)
16:27<@peter1138>or could be short for archimedes (possible in the context of ARM)
16:28<@peter1138>but yeah, you meant arch linux
16:28<@peter1138>whatever floats yer boat
16:29<V453000>peter1138: am I searching in the right area? anything containing power of the engines doesnt look like being there :(
16:29<Rubidium>definitely archimedes ;)
16:31<andythenorth>did all TTD nerds have an acorn at some point?
16:32<Rubidium>I'd classify myself as not being a TTD nerd then ;)
16:32<V453000>could anyone please help me? I am trying for a variable with which I would be able to make a switch which would change sprites of a certain engine based on what power that engine has ... andythenorth ? .)
16:32<andythenorth>no var for reading hp?
16:32<V453000>I cant see any in nml
16:32<andythenorth>consist power?
16:32<andythenorth>80+ var?
16:33<V453000>no just that one engine, not whole consist
16:33<skassem>I not do that
16:33<drac_boy>andythenorth nope, but have been thinking a bit about one as a third computer. hard part is most of the ones for sale are oversea which makes it not worth the cost ;)
16:34<@peter1138>var F4?
16:34<@peter1138>cached_power
16:34<andythenorth>someone should do open sourced Chocks Away
16:34<@peter1138>just don't use it in callbacks
16:34<@peter1138>andythenorth, yes
16:34<@peter1138>andythenorth, in hig res ;p
16:34<Stimrol>hello I am doing some of the translation, where is this string STR_CONFIG_SETTING_DISABLED
16:34<andythenorth>but still vectors
16:34<andythenorth>just really nice vectors
16:34<@peter1138>yes
16:34<andythenorth>can't be hard :P
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16:35<V453000>where are you finding that :d I havent found a single thing out of the things you said in grf specs yet :D
16:35<skassem>I not do that
16:35<@peter1138>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles
16:35<@peter1138>For other 80+x variables confer the TTD vehicle structure.
16:35<@peter1138>confer?
16:35<@peter1138>surely... refer to
16:36<andythenorth>4.1 here http://www.starfighter.acornarcade.com/mysite/articles/P3Report/Chapter2.html#4.1
16:36<andythenorth>peter1138: ^
16:36<V453000>I almost fear to ask what is TTD vehicle structure :o
16:36<skassem>im getn out if here
16:36-!-skassem [633b68a7@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
16:36<@peter1138>V453000, it's a link
16:36<@peter1138>although that is the power of the whole train
16:36<@peter1138>hmm
16:36<V453000>I see now
16:37<@peter1138>andythenorth, somehow i read that recently already
16:37<andythenorth>I posted it :P
16:37<andythenorth>it contains no help
16:37<Rubidium>Stimrol: good question; based on the location I'd suspect there to be some settings having a DISABLED option where also ON and OFF are shown
16:37<andythenorth>if you code it, I'll draw the graphics
16:37<andythenorth>at least, the bitmaps :P
16:38<+michi_cc>Var F4 is total power, can't see anything in the code for single-engine power (and OTTD doesn't store that anywhere).
16:38<Stimrol>Rubidium, it is already translated but marked and I am not finding it in advanced setting :)
16:39<V453000>hm, okay, I didnt expect that, but still ... is there any way how to get the result of the random switch (the one with power) to the sprites and make 5k engine look different than 6k engine?
16:39<Rubidium>it's marked because the capitalisation of the string was changed
16:40<@planetmaker>hm, interesting, michi_cc
16:41<+michi_cc>V453000: Read http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Random_switch and look where it mentions "<dependent>: <other_random>"
16:41<Stimrol>ok I will look at that, thought it was only because the former translator thought it nicer to have lowercase
16:42<+michi_cc>With that you can create a second random_switch in the sprite chain that reads the same random bits.
16:42<+michi_cc>Or query variable 5F, but then you have to know yourself which random bits NML uses.
16:43<@peter1138>why is it that when i sit down, my microwave beeps after 15 seconds
16:43<@peter1138>when i stay up, it's always still on minutes to ago
16:43<@peter1138>-a
16:44<Rubidium>Stimrol: though I can't really find the use of that string anywhere
16:46<V453000>so I make a second random which has "independent: monowtf1_power; and then the same amount of 1: spriteset_5kpower;" ?
16:46<V453000>cant say I understand the "power of 2" thing
16:46<V453000>ah that is for something else
16:46<Stimrol>ok, I will continue
16:49<V453000>nmlc internal error xD
16:50<V453000>object has no attribute reduce
16:51<Rubidium>Stimrol: in the advanced settings (expert/all) filter on snap. The window snap radius gets the disabled once the value gets 0
16:51<V453000>michi_cc: does that make sense? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2013/
16:51<Rubidium>Stimrol: there are a number of other settings that have the same behaviour, all in that window
16:52<+michi_cc>V453000: You can leave out the triggers, they are only used if the random_switch is in the random_trigger callback. Otherwise that should work in theory.
16:53<V453000>I wanted to ask what triggers to use :)
16:53<V453000>alright so there is something fishy in nmlc
16:54<@Alberth>yeah, you found a bug :)
16:54<V453000>not the first time :P I will make a report tomorrow
16:55<V453000>thanks for your help!
16:56<V453000>for now, good night :)
16:56<@Alberth>good night
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17:47<andythenorth>bye
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17:48<oh8hth>night.
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19:12<@peter1138>if (CleaningPool()) return;
19:12<@peter1138>}
19:12<@peter1138>hmm, seems useful
19:14<Kjetil>very
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19:28<@peter1138>holy crap it works... for yapf...
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19:45<@peter1138>have to worry about extra cpu usage though :S
19:56<Wolf01>'night
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19:59<@peter1138>damn pikka
19:59<@peter1138>keep having coal mines close on me :-(
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22:49<Flygon>I've learned something about OpenTTD
22:49<Flygon>It's near impossible to churn a profit pre-1830 @_@
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 30 00:00:34 2012