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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-12-30

---Logopened Sun Dec 30 00:00:34 2012
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02:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24872 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2012-12-30 07:12:42 UTC)
02:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix: typo in English (Stimrol)
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02:46<andythenorth>moringtimes
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03:24<@peter1138>noes
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04:05<Wolf01>hello
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04:33<@Terkhen>good morning
04:33<@Alberth>moin Terkhen
04:34<Wolf01>moin Alberth
04:35<@Alberth>moin :)
04:35<@Terkhen>hi guys :P
04:48<Pikka>good morning gentlemen
04:48-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
04:52<@Terkhen>hello Pikka
04:58-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
04:58<SpComb>'morn
05:01<@peter1138>hellay
05:01<@peter1138>game's on btw
05:02-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:09<@Terkhen>hi :P
05:22-!-A124 [~User@52.240.broadband17.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
05:22<A124>Hey guys. Anyone has any idea what's wrong with the downloads?
05:23<@Terkhen>hi
05:23<@Terkhen>without a description of the problem, no :P
05:23<@peter1138>no, what's wrong with the downloads?
05:23<@planetmaker>no-one's aware of anything being wrong
05:23<A124>They are not working.
05:23<@planetmaker>good morning everyone also :-)
05:23<A124>None of then, not even directory listings
05:23<A124>*m
05:23-!-A124 is now known as Math
05:23<@Terkhen>I just checked, the ingame online content works fine for me
05:23<@planetmaker>we provide no directory listings. Give URL please
05:24<Math>https://secure.openttd.org/binaries/binaries/releases/1.2.3/openttd-1.2.3-linux-debian-squeeze-amd64.deb
05:24<Math>For example
05:24<@Terkhen>new aviators aircraft set... nice, I'll have to check what it adds :P
05:24<@peter1138>binaries binaries?
05:25<@planetmaker>Math, the download URL is http://www.openttd.org/download-stable
05:25<Math>Not even sources are acessible
05:25<@planetmaker>as it always has been
05:25<Math>Yes, that's where I got the links from
05:25<@Terkhen>for the record, without the double "binaries" thing the link works
05:25<@Terkhen>but you should just download them from the url that planetmaker linked
05:26<Math>Id does not for me.
05:26<Math>s/d/t
05:27<Rubidium>from the http site it won't redirect to a https site, so either you're not on the http site... or something in your browser messes things up
05:27<Math>I'm automatically redirected as for the safety. I'll check this, thanks.
05:28<Math>So https version is a) useless b) flawed
05:28<@peter1138>there is no https version
05:29<Rubidium>the actual mirrors are not even using https AFAIK
05:29<Math>Then what https://secure.openttd.org/www/en/download-stable is?
05:30<@peter1138>not official, just happens to be available
05:30<Rubidium>those links are to http://binaries.openttd.org
05:30<@peter1138>notice the styling is all broken
05:30<@peter1138>and the links are all to http
05:30<@peter1138>so your browser or some such is automagically httpsing for you?
05:31<@planetmaker>from https://o.o you get also the https://...download-stable link
05:31<Math>I noticed taht but it's on openttd.org. So, it should be else fixed or taken down maybe
05:31<@planetmaker>agreed
05:31<@planetmaker>if it's not supposed to work it should not be there
05:32-!-andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:20ce:ec12:b757:fe85] has joined #openttd
05:33<Math>Ok. Is irc enough as a notice, or should I contact someone else? If so,, whom?
05:33<@planetmaker>you reached the right people. Thanks :-)
05:33<@peter1138>no
05:33<@peter1138>it's not our fault
05:33<andythenorth>bonsoirre
05:33<Rubidium>TrueBrain: ^ can that issue with https be fixed?
05:33<@peter1138>even if you go to https:// the download links are supplied without https
05:34<@planetmaker>incorrect, peter1138
05:34<@peter1138>i don't know why the styling is wrong, they are absolute references
05:34<Rubidium>planetmaker: for me the download links are http there as well
05:34<@peter1138>planetmaker, the download page is relative, so stays https, but the download *links* are without https
05:34<Math>Even more starnge I got https links
05:35<@planetmaker>yes, that's true, Pensacola
05:35<andythenorth>it's a Pikka!
05:35<@planetmaker>* peter1138
05:35<Rubidium>Math: so your browser is messing with the website, replacing http with https
05:35<andythenorth>is it safari by any chance?
05:35<andythenorth>or other webkit?
05:35<@planetmaker>then the FF on debian does that
05:36<@planetmaker>though... yes actual download link is http
05:36<@Alberth>hi andy
05:36<@peter1138>planetmaker, i'm using FF (iceweasl) on debian. it doesn't do that.
05:36<Math>Firefox, with HTTPs Everywhere from Electronic Frontier Foundation. Without the addon, the links are http
05:37<@peter1138>i can only assume it's some misguided plugin that's fucking it up
05:37-!-Devroush [~dennis@182.183-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd
05:37<@peter1138>complain to them :p
05:37<Math>Yeah, I probably will.
05:38<@peter1138>(the styling is fine with iceweasl for https://www.openttd.org/)
05:38<@peter1138>chromium doesn't like it though, probably cos the styles are on non-https
05:38-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19736.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
05:39<@peter1138>yay browsers :p
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05:44*andythenorth ponders GS ideas
05:44<Pikka>andythenorth, your big ship is in trouble
05:45<andythenorth>Are we playing the game? :o
05:45<andythenorth>did it sink?
05:45-!-Devroush [~dennis@182.183-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:45<Pikka>it has been floating around near its unloading dock for 13 years
05:45<andythenorth>ha ha
05:45<Pikka>trying to get to the depot in the canal on the other side of the steelmill
05:45<andythenorth>someone take over my company and fix it
05:45<Pikka>okay
05:45<andythenorth>yeah ship routing is a bit fucked these days
05:45<andythenorth>especially with 90' turns off
05:46<andythenorth>turning off 90' turns for ships is a dumb option imo
05:46<andythenorth>it just causes broken ships, with no gameplay benefit
05:46<Pikka>not giving vehicles explicit depot orders is dumb imo ;)
05:46<andythenorth>breakdowns are on?
05:46<Pikka>but then I'm more used to playing with breakdowns on
05:46<Pikka>yes
05:47<andythenorth>herp
05:47<andythenorth>oh well
05:47<@peter1138>reduced!
05:47<andythenorth>nothing wrong with breakdowns
05:47<andythenorth>lots of my games have breakdowns
05:47<Pikka>citizens celebrate, first ship arrives!
05:47<Pikka>after 13 years :)
05:47<andythenorth>yay
05:48<Pikka>and yet
05:48<andythenorth>Pikka: been thinking about a Hare and Tortoise GS
05:48<Pikka>your ore dock still has better ratings than spcomb's train station :P
05:48<andythenorth>all freight must go less than a certain speed, all pax more than a certain speed
05:48<andythenorth>or something
05:48<Pikka>15% and 11% respectively, I wonder what happened to his trains...
05:48<@peter1138>lol
05:48<@peter1138>it's so big
05:48<Pikka>sounds... interesting
05:48<@peter1138>it couldn't completely unload
05:48<andythenorth>yeah
05:48<andythenorth>pikka broke my ships :(
05:48<Pikka>I see what happened to his trains
05:49<@peter1138>it's larger than the steel mill's queue thing
05:49<Pikka>they're not unloading at the other end
05:49<Pikka>no-one told him steel mills need coal :D
05:49<andythenorth>I'll speckletate
05:49<andythenorth>for a bit
05:49<andythenorth>I am minding two junior andys though
05:49<andythenorth>and they tend to do bad things when I play
05:49<andythenorth>like fall down the stairs
05:49<andythenorth>look how much steel I made :o
05:50<andythenorth>and that ship is profitable :D
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05:54<George>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4730
05:55<George>let me know if I need to provide more information
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06:19<__ln__>moscow crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAHF7ul46Go
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06:20<Flygon>__ln__: Broadcast on TV here
06:21<Flygon>We're fascinated with Russian carcams
06:21<Flygon>We have them on bikes for the same reason
06:21<Flygon>To prove who killed us
06:24-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
06:24<drac_boy>hi
06:25<Flygon>Heya drac_boy
06:25<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I love the highlight, but can you also tell me what I should read in the list above? :D
06:25<Flygon>You know them vacuum tube railways Brunel designed?
06:25<Flygon>Victorian era VMU's for OpenTTD Y/N?
06:25<SpComb>the game!
06:26<Kjetil>Steampunk openttd!
06:27<@peter1138>TrueBrain, i don't think there's a problem at all
06:27<TrueBrain>then why does he highlight me? :(
06:27<@peter1138>cos he thought there was
06:27<@peter1138>only that some browsers don't apply style to the https:// version of the website
06:27<Flygon>Kjetil: There's packs for that already, I'm just referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway :p
06:27<@peter1138>question is, should there be an https version of it?
06:28<TrueBrain>ofc
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06:28<TrueBrain>peter1138: let me guess, if you load the frontpage via https, you dont get the media? (they are non-https links :P)
06:28<@peter1138>stupid really, css isn't exactly malicious
06:29<@peter1138>yup
06:29<TrueBrain>and yeah ... it used to be okay
06:29<@peter1138>works in some but not all
06:29<TrueBrain>nowedays they see https as: now you cannot snoop what I am visiting
06:29<TrueBrain>instead of: protecting user data
06:29<andythenorth>browsers are more nerfy
06:30<TrueBrain>guess I should finish the new website some day ... he should do it correct :P
06:30<Math>Umm.. Is there a reason why dedicated server needs graphics set?
06:30<Flygon>Because the operator doesn't like default OpenTTD graphics?
06:31<Math>What do you mean by that?
06:31<@Alberth>Math: graphics set? do you mean baseset?
06:31<@peter1138>+ <rule from="^http://\w+\.binaries\.openttd\.org/"
06:31<@peter1138>+ to="https://secure.openttd.org/binaries/"/>
06:31<@peter1138>heh
06:31<Math>Alberth: The graphic portion of baseset
06:32<Math>I thought dedicated server would not need those
06:32<@peter1138>baseset includes special stuff for landscape generator
06:32<Ammler>we once thought to make a nogfx set :-)
06:32<Ammler>I guess, opengfx has such a branch
06:32<@peter1138>admittedly nobody uses them
06:32<Math>"Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt."
06:32<@peter1138>cos tgp doesn't need them
06:32<TrueBrain>peter1138: that replacement is rather flawed :D
06:33<TrueBrain>as we don't host any file at *.binaries.openttd.org, only at binaries.openttd.org ;)
06:33<@peter1138>i know, it's what caused the faff this morning
06:33<TrueBrain>lolz; where does such line come from?
06:33<@peter1138>https everywhere
06:33<@Alberth>Math: as peter1138 already said, it contains more than just the graphics
06:33<TrueBrain>they have manual lines for openttd?
06:33<TrueBrain>lolz
06:33<Kjetil>Flygon: :) One could also imagine depresurized tracks for maglev in the future to decrease drag
06:33<@peter1138>yup
06:34<Math>Okay. Thanks. Are open-gfx compatible with Windows version?
06:34<TrueBrain>faulty lines, for that matter ....
06:34<TrueBrain>the OpenTTD schema is very simple: *.openttd.org -> secure.openttd.org/$1
06:34<TrueBrain>works for all URLs
06:34<Flygon>Kjetil: Depressurized tracks?
06:34<@Alberth>Math: opengfx works with all versions
06:34<@peter1138>can we charge them for causing needless server load?
06:34<Ammler>Math: basesets are local only
06:34<TrueBrain>(the first httpd handles it, and pushes it to the backends as it was a http call :P)
06:35<Math>Alberth: Server opengfx and clients Windows version, .. that ok right? Just to get sure.
06:35<@Terkhen>bbl
06:35<@Alberth>Math: in multi-player, you can have any mix of server and clients
06:36<Math>Alberth: Thank you kindly.
06:36<@Alberth>and opengfx is compatible with the original TTDX set too
06:37<Kjetil>Flygon: Kind of like the car as piston configuration of an atmospheric track. Expect that there is really no thight seal around the train. More like a vacuum tube
06:37<Flygon>I don't understand how this ties into Maglev
06:37<Flygon>I'm referring to what's basically a reverse steam locomotive design Brunel cooked up
06:38<Kjetil>could be any railtype. I used maglev as it is a "future" rail type (not any more though)
06:39<Flygon>Ah
06:39<Flygon>I'm referring to iron rail
06:39<Flygon>And the tech relies, essentially, on adhesive wheels
06:39<TrueBrain>peter1138: but I agree, it is silly that we have to give support to a broken thingy that wants to do good; they should instead of just us an email telling us things are wrong tbfh :P
06:39<Flygon>Only real difference between standard rail is that it allows locomotiveless MU operation in the 1850s @_@
06:40<@peter1138>Flygon, oh that thing
06:40<@peter1138>leaky as
06:40<Flygon>peter1138: High infrastructure maintaince coss
06:40<Flygon>costs* :p
06:40<@peter1138>a vacuum tube... with a slot running along it
06:40<@peter1138>really good idea
06:40<Flygon>Yes
06:41<Flygon>Really good idea... if it's 1960
06:41<Flygon>Not 1860
06:41<Flygon>They really could have used silicon, or rubber, or plastic, or something back then
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07:31<ZxBiohazardZx>mmz no Pikka
07:31<ZxBiohazardZx>anyone know in TaI how i figure out what town type i have?
07:31<Pikka>why not?
07:31<ZxBiohazardZx>ah nvm
07:31<ZxBiohazardZx>didnt see you in list :P
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>"The town type can be determined by using the query tool on the city/town hall. "
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>define city/town hall
07:32<Pikka>there are six town types
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>i dont see it :P
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>i know, i read the wiki
07:32<Pikka>there are no city halls yet
07:32<Pikka>the wiki is out of date :)
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>ah
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>great
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>so how do i figure out what type of city i have?
07:32<Pikka>three types are cities and three are towns
07:32<Pikka>if it's an openttd (city), then it's a city
07:32<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah openttd (city)
07:33<ZxBiohazardZx>i just have some dying cities, prolly old houses that got removed (non-TAI)
07:33<ZxBiohazardZx>some cities are booming still :)
07:33<ZxBiohazardZx>i do like it, it limits the sizes a bit, makes it fun to play
07:33<Pikka>loading tai in an old game or with other city sets, I don't know what it will do, so it's not supported :)
07:33<ZxBiohazardZx>well it works fine solo
07:33<ZxBiohazardZx>i had swedish houses added to it for a while
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>but i removed it, cities got to big to fast
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>and ofc those houses died out
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>now some cities grow as expected :)
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>most*
07:34<Flygon>I have lots of dying towns in my current game
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>just a few that are dying out :P
07:34<Flygon>TTRS is bugged
07:34<Flygon>D:
07:34<Pikka>what's "dying out"?
07:34<Flygon>Reducing pop
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>some houses remain, most are gone
07:34<Pikka>what's "most"?
07:34<ZxBiohazardZx>a town of 6k down to 1k now :P
07:35<Pikka>what year is it?
07:35<ZxBiohazardZx>the non TAI are gone
07:35<ZxBiohazardZx>and im in 1940's atm
07:35<Flygon>Pikka: pre-1840
07:35<ZxBiohazardZx>ttrs is not pikka's set Flygon
07:35<Flygon>Oh, you mean Biohazard :p
07:35<Flygon>Mate, when you're as nieve as I am
07:35<Flygon>planetmaker may as well be the lord himself
07:36<ZxBiohazardZx>haha
07:36<Flygon>He made this planet, dangit
07:36<Pikka>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156796 this is still current
07:36<Flygon>He may have done a terrible job
07:36<Flygon>But he made it
07:36<ZxBiohazardZx>Pikka im using the "old" 0.3 beta
07:36<Pikka>well, in that case
07:36<Pikka>it's not the case that all (city)s are cities
07:36<ZxBiohazardZx>aah
07:36<Pikka>you should update
07:37<ZxBiohazardZx>cant im playing chrills patchpack
07:37<ZxBiohazardZx>so the new version wont go in :P
07:37<ZxBiohazardZx>patchpack for i cba to rebuild the network i created so far
07:37<ZxBiohazardZx>and i rely on signals in tunnels/bridges and i like paxdest alot
07:38<ZxBiohazardZx>so pikka in 0.3 ottd how do i figure out a town/city type?
07:38<Pikka>with difficulty :)
07:39<Pikka>"planned towns" can be spotted by switching the buildings transparent and looking at the scrabble tiles, they'll have no red/pink
07:39<Pikka>otherwise, there's not much difference in 0.3 except the maximum size, and a lack of big buildings in villages
07:39<ZxBiohazardZx>all i have is white (churches) a few blue (R-com) and grey buildings (non-TAI tiles i think...)
07:39<ZxBiohazardZx>could be bug due to the Swedish Houses removal
07:40<Pikka>could be
07:40<ZxBiohazardZx>but again i dont feel like restarting the map and trying to get perfect town placement again
07:40<ZxBiohazardZx>just not worth it
07:40<ZxBiohazardZx>ill just feed it pax/mail and goods and wait for the town/city to grow
07:43<ZxBiohazardZx>ah it grows already
07:44<ZxBiohazardZx>it has pink so its not planned :)
07:48<@peter1138>yeah adding/removing town sets is likely to leave towns growing or shrinking absurdly
07:48<@peter1138>usual answer is "don't do that"
07:49<@peter1138>by pink do you mean creamy?
07:54<@planetmaker>:D lool
07:54<@peter1138>?
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08:08<ZxBiohazardZx>peter1138 i know, but its still better then crossing fingers on RNG to get exact same map
08:09<@peter1138>well you will with the same seed
08:09<@peter1138>might end up with different stuff though
08:13<dihedral>hi
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08:19<@Terkhen>hi dihedral and andythenorth
08:20<andythenorth>lo
08:21<drac_boy>are planes only dual-cargo when it comes to pass/mail or can you use that for dual freight cargos as well?
08:21<@Terkhen>only pass/mail
08:21<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah i have used a heightmap for it already
08:22<ZxBiohazardZx>and im just gonna play till i connected everything then just play the heighmap on diff grfset
08:22<drac_boy>Terkhen hm thanks
08:22<ZxBiohazardZx>hoping at least 2-3 towns are same :P
08:22<drac_boy>guess I'll have to just skip on planes....unless I can find how to make a mail-less plane heh
08:23<ZxBiohazardZx>refit to pax-only?
08:25<drac_boy>ZxBiohazardZx yeah .. coding them for only pax alone can't be too hard I hope...still have to look it up tho
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08:37<drac_boy>ZxBiohazardZx I sometimes wonder if I'm not the only one to wonder about having passenger-only trains then wanting to add planes only to run into the problem of suddenly having mail piling up at the stations :s
08:37<drac_boy>but mmm .... heh
09:08<Rubidium>TrueBrain: that for some reason https://binaries does (did?) not seem to work, but it seems like you might've solved that already
09:11<TrueBrain>I did not such thing
09:11<TrueBrain>the user uses a tool that is broken
09:11<TrueBrain>so .... what can I say?
09:12<TrueBrain>that URL worked fine, works fine, and will work fine :P
09:13<drac_boy>mm looking at aircraft actions I almost forgot one more other thing
09:14<drac_boy>do aircraft coders usually use the maximum or cruising speed?
09:21<Stimrol>(translation) anyone have any idea where this is ingame --> STR_INDUSTRY_CARGOES_SELECT_CARGO_TOOLTIP --> {BLACK}Select the cargo you want to display
09:23<andythenorth>might be cargo chain view
09:23*andythenorth didn't search the src though
09:24<Stimrol>good idea, going to look at it
09:25<ZxBiohazardZx>drac_boy there are sets that have pax-only liveries, look better ?
09:25<Stimrol>andythenorth, 10 points
09:25<ZxBiohazardZx>afaik that is
09:26<drac_boy>ZxBiohazardZx well pax livery doesn't help that it still makes the airport piled up with mails which wasn't what you expected :)
09:28<drac_boy>ZxBiohazardZx so do you have any idea re plane speeds or not so much?
09:35<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz dont know
09:35<ZxBiohazardZx>i hardly ever use planes so
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09:37<drac_boy>np
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10:12<andrwe2>hi.
10:13<andrwe2>servers
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10:16<drac_boy>strange ^^
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10:35<drac_boy>guess it looks like cruising speed then
10:36<oskari89>Planetmaker here?
10:37<oskari89>About OpenTTDCoop DevZone, what theme it uses?
10:37<oskari89>The Redmine.
10:39<@planetmaker>it uses a somewhat custom one, iirc
10:39<oskari89>Okay :)
10:39<@planetmaker>but Ammler knows better which redmine theme it uses, the DevZone
10:40<oskari89>Okay.
10:50<drac_boy>someone want to tell me if I missed anything here? assuming sand is 1500kg/cubic-meter and the wagon can hold 2cu.m of this then that mean it would had been about 3 tons worth of laden weight?
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11:09<Ammler>no custom theme
11:10<Ammler>BaseCamp
11:11<Ammler>you are very welcome to contribute a better one ;-)
11:19*drac_boy thinks where to let players get cattle from in the game
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11:27<@peter1138>farm
11:31<drac_boy>mm I already have a farm so... :-s
11:32<@peter1138>so?
11:32<Kitty>is there a way to merge two stations?
11:32<@planetmaker>no, you can't do that, Kitty
11:32<@planetmaker>you can only add to existing stations
11:32<@planetmaker>*new pieces to existing stations
11:33<Kitty>doh
11:45<drac_boy>peter1138 so unless the newgrf introduces a third output slot its not going to work to lump cattle into the farm :)
11:45<drac_boy>kitty I'm guessing you built two stations currently in use and wished it had been one?
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11:48<Kitty>yes
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11:48<andythenorth>o Pikka http://www.brickshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/375-castle.jpg
11:49<drac_boy>well kitty only way is to destroy one station...reschedule any vehicles affected to the 'other' station
11:49<drac_boy>thats afaik, sorry :->
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11:54<ZxBiohazardZx>question
11:54<ZxBiohazardZx>other then gameplay what keeps cargodest/paxdest from trunk?
11:54<oskari89>Ammler: Thanks :)
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12:00<greatkhan>i don't see anyone assigned the vehicle replacement interface bugs... http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2064 and http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1640
12:00<greatkhan>i've been looking to get involved...has anyone else done any work on these already?
12:02<ZxBiohazardZx>is it possible to change inflation on/off via console in multiplayer?
12:02-!-isaac9 [57d22cea@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:03<@planetmaker>greatkhan, afaik no-one works on that at the moment
12:03-!-isaac9 [57d22cea@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit []
12:04<@planetmaker>though I consider that rather features than bugs ;-)
12:04<greatkhan>thanks @planetmaker ... i'll give it a try..and yeah, i realized it was a feature the minute i hit "enter" :P
12:05<ZxBiohazardZx>nvm got it
12:05<@planetmaker>greatkhan, there's a list of wanted features on our wiki. Maybe something is there for you, as well...
12:05<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list
12:05<@planetmaker>some of the stuff there has been worked on the the last months, some already finished, other is WIP
12:05<greatkhan>i was looking for something small...never done any open-source stuff before and it's been years since i coded c/c++ ... not even sure i'll be able to accomplish this
12:06<@planetmaker>I'm not actually sure those two FS tasks are small :-)
12:06<greatkhan>and this was the only un-assigned thing in the "Easy" list in todos
12:06<@planetmaker>oh, they're there. Then yes :-)
12:07<greatkhan>thanks...i'll report back if i have any progress or questions...
12:08<@planetmaker>sure :-) This channel is a good place. Or #openttd.dev
12:08<@planetmaker>which is the channel dedicated to discuss patches exclusively
12:09<greatkhan>cool
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12:51<@peter1138>huh, you can still rename engines? hah
12:53<Stimrol>what is this --> STR_ABOUT_MENU_TOGGLE_BOUNDING_BOXES --> Toggle bounding boxes
12:53<Stimrol>Dont even know what this is or where to find it
12:53<@peter1138>it's on the question-mark menu
12:53<@peter1138>you might need developer mode on
12:54<@peter1138>it draws boxes helpful for newgrf authors
12:54<@peter1138>well, maybe helpful
12:59<Stimrol>peter1138, thanks, I tried to start with openttd -d and it did not show up
13:00<@peter1138>that's debug
13:01<Stimrol>ok so it is not both there
13:01<Stimrol>ahh I set it in openttd.cfg :) thanks
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13:22<Kitty>hwo do I get auto renew to work ?
13:25<Kjetil>You enable it in the options?
13:31<Kitty>Some planes crash a lot more than others don't they ?
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13:38<@planetmaker>Kitty, don't have large planes land on small airports
13:39<@planetmaker>that drastically increases crash rate
13:41<__ln__>that's unrealistic!
13:46<fonsinchen>Rubidium: Can you tell me how the compile farm manages to get multi-gigabyte checkouts?
13:46<fonsinchen>I just verified with a fresh clone and that's 200MB
13:46<fonsinchen>I did "git clone https://github.com/fonsinchen/openttd-cargodist.git"
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24873 /trunk/src/lang (14 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-30 18:46:18 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 13 changes by Tvel
13:46<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 31 changes by xiangyigao
13:46<@DorpsGek>czech - 16 changes by Eskymak
13:46<@DorpsGek>danish - 48 changes by Knogle
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 1 changes by Rubidium
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
13:46<@DorpsGek>estonian - 22 changes by runekri3
13:46<@DorpsGek>icelandic - 145 changes by Stimrol
13:46<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 9 changes by fanioz
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 116 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 148 changes by Inspirion, cuthbert
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 7 changes by wojteks86
13:46<@DorpsGek>slovenian - 64 changes by gligoran
13:46<@DorpsGek>tamil - 157 changes by aswn
13:47<fonsinchen>OK, 250MB unpacked, 200MB transfer volume
13:47<@Alberth>people have been busy :)
13:48<Rubidium>fonsinchen: TrueBrain said the checkout was like 1.5 GiB for cargodist a few days ago (or I misunderstood him)
13:48<fonsinchen>I've heard that before, but I can't reproduce it.
13:49<fonsinchen>I'd like to know what exact command he's issuing.
13:50<fonsinchen>I'll write him a PM on the forums
13:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24874 trunk/src/lang/romanian.txt (2012-12-30 18:50:37 UTC)
13:50<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Incorrect Romanian own name
13:51<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: once again the git checkout was so large
13:51<TrueBrain>that it consumed 1.4GiB on disk
13:51<fonsinchen>how did you do that?
13:51<TrueBrain>I can't remember how we fixed it last time, but it is getting rather annoying (To say the least :P)
13:51<fonsinchen>If I check it out it's 250MB
13:52<TrueBrain>*shrug* - I suggest to read back the IRC log last time :P
13:52<fonsinchen>sorry for the annoyance.
13:52<TrueBrain>same here
13:52<fonsinchen>We didn't find out. Somehow you changed it to "shallow" checkouts, which had their own problems
13:52<fonsinchen>then you changed it back and it worked fine for a while
13:52<TrueBrain>ah
13:53<TrueBrain>well .. clearly it is only for a while :D
13:53<fonsinchen>Are you checking out into the same repository every time?
13:53<fonsinchen>or are you creating a new one?
13:53<TrueBrain>it is Bamboo doing all that; I wouldnt really know
13:53<TrueBrain>it should just update
13:53<fonsinchen>Obviously it does something wrong
13:53<TrueBrain>so I am guessing it goes wrong on every rebase
13:54<TrueBrain>I think it is related to the fact you make branches every time
13:54<fonsinchen>Actually I've kept the branches persistent for some time now and they only add a few Megabytes in total.
13:55<TrueBrain>but have you checked if you have master as checkout
13:55<@planetmaker>a few * 100 = 1GByte ;-)
13:55<TrueBrain>then do a pull
13:55<TrueBrain>after you made a branch
13:55<TrueBrain>what that does?
13:56<TrueBrain>okay, lets login to the system ... main git checkout is 229 MiB, branch 'cd'
13:56<TrueBrain>sounds right?
13:56<fonsinchen>That's somewhat hard to reproduce as I can't create a repository with only "master"
13:56<fonsinchen>229 MiB is normal
13:57<TrueBrain>then lets see what ends up in the clone of that clone
13:57<TrueBrain>very large .pack files
13:57<TrueBrain>lolz
13:57<fonsinchen>?
13:58<TrueBrain>in .git/objects/pack/ are many large files
13:58<TrueBrain>still unpacking ...
13:58<@peter1138>git repack?
13:58<TrueBrain>yeah, many .pack files
13:59<TrueBrain>every oone around 189 MiB
13:59<TrueBrain>the more I Work with git, the more I fucking hate it (Excuse my language)
13:59<fonsinchen>that's crazy. My personal repository is taking a lot of abuse and I have some files with a few MB there
14:00<andythenorth>Pikka: knock the chimney off this? http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/b696aaeb0a09/src/graphics/industries/furniture_factory_1.png
14:00<TrueBrain>ah, see, what I thought ...
14:00<TrueBrain>what appears to go wrong is this:
14:00<TrueBrain>git pull is done every time in the same directory with the same git
14:00<andythenorth>Pikka: snow version http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/b696aaeb0a09/src/graphics/industries/furniture_factory_1_snow.png
14:00<TrueBrain>when you rebase, or make a branch, what ever
14:00<TrueBrain>instead of removin the old
14:00<TrueBrain>it keeps that brnach too
14:00<Pikka>eh
14:00<andythenorth>pikka there are others too :P
14:00<andythenorth>dunno
14:00<Pikka>far too lazy to do snow versions :)
14:00<fonsinchen>actually that shouldn't be a problem.
14:00<TrueBrain>so I have many many many .pack files ... every new update a new one
14:00<andythenorth>I have an expert doing my snow
14:00<andythenorth>he's canadian
14:00<TrueBrain>if "not a problem" is 200 MiB, sure :D
14:01<fonsinchen>there are some options about automatic repacking and garbage collection. Let me look these up
14:03<TrueBrain>guess it should clean the director every time
14:03<TrueBrain>expensive bandwidth wise ...
14:03<TrueBrain>but it is expensive anyway
14:03<@planetmaker>use hg-git :D
14:03<fonsinchen>can you show me the output of "git config gc.auto"?
14:03<TrueBrain>it is too bad your rebases means it has to redownload the whole freaking history again
14:04<@peter1138>bah, why do cities hate me just for building a station on track i already own? :S
14:04<@peter1138>aren't rebases meant to be avoided?
14:04<TrueBrain>not set, but such solutions aren't really solutions either, sadly
14:04<Rubidium>peter1138: inner city reconstruction causes a lot of mess ;)
14:04<fonsinchen>I can choose between rebasing and incredibly messy history
14:04<fonsinchen>I had both
14:05<fonsinchen>for code review rebases are clearly better
14:05<TrueBrain>it just hands you a full new tree every time
14:05<fonsinchen>no
14:05<TrueBrain>I wonder if it could be done better, like github does with forks etc
14:05<@peter1138>it reorganises the commits
14:05<fonsinchen>It hands you a few commits on trunk and my ~20 commits
14:05<TrueBrain>where you have a master, which are the OpenTTD commits
14:05<TrueBrain>and a branch which has your commits
14:05<TrueBrain>then a rebase should be much smaller, bandwidth wise I guess
14:05<TrueBrain>but .. I dont really know git
14:06<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: you hand a new .pack file of 200 MiB :P
14:06<@peter1138>if you had other people working on it, rebasing would be a right bitch
14:06<fonsinchen>that's why I'm keeping the old branches around
14:06<fonsinchen>for reference
14:06<TrueBrain>hmm, I am pretty sure I had the option to clean out the source directory ....
14:06<TrueBrain>but how and where ....
14:08<TrueBrain>ah; I already enabled that
14:08<TrueBrain>hmm
14:08<TrueBrain>why you not working do
14:08<TrueBrain>ah, only works if it was sucessful
14:08<fonsinchen>"git config gc.autopacklimit 1" and "git config gc.auto 1" should do it
14:09<fonsinchen>then it will repack everytime you pull
14:09<TrueBrain>it would only make very large packs
14:09<TrueBrain>instead of many small
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14:09<TrueBrain>as it has the branches too
14:09<TrueBrain>so that won't really work
14:09<fonsinchen>no, it is smart enough to see that all the trunk commits are the same
14:10<fonsinchen>I don't actually know why it doesn't see that in advance, but obviously it doesn't
14:12*TrueBrain murmbles something about git and blegh
14:13<TrueBrain>right; have to wait for the nightly to finish
14:13<fonsinchen>I can't test it either, unfortunately
14:13<TrueBrain>tried some other things that _should_ help
14:13<fonsinchen>git gc --aggressive
14:13<TrueBrain>silly git being silly ...
14:13<fonsinchen>that should give an immediate remedy too
14:13<TrueBrain>your solutions dont solve the issue
14:13<TrueBrain>I dont want to keep the branches alive
14:13<fonsinchen>I know
14:13<TrueBrain>they should die
14:13<TrueBrain>horribly
14:13<TrueBrain>:D
14:14<fonsinchen>but if you do a gc now, then remember the size and check again tomorrow you should know if my previous suggestion helps
14:14<TrueBrain>but I will still have all those idling branches
14:14<TrueBrain>which is like .. euh .. not good :D
14:14<+glx>TrueBrain: fighting your opendune checkout ?
14:14<fonsinchen>As long as I keep the branches alive you will have to live with them
14:14<TrueBrain>glx: nope, his cd :P
14:15<fonsinchen>howeever, they're not expensive
14:15<fonsinchen>they're only about 20 commits each
14:15<TrueBrain>but they shouldn't be there .. so, lets see what happens if I remove .git every time
14:15<TrueBrain>and make a new pull ..
14:15<fonsinchen>the issue is some other misbehaviour in your version of git
14:15<fonsinchen>you can do that, too
14:15<TrueBrain>my version? Pff, it is what github sends me :P
14:15<@Alberth>or just export the current tip, or is that not an option?
14:16<@Alberth>or archive, or whatever git calls the set of current sources without repo
14:17<TrueBrain>but then find-version wont work :P
14:18<@Alberth>joy :(
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14:26<TrueBrain>fonsinchen: well, it is building again, and removed all the shit after him .. it seems to be 200 MiB now ...
14:26<TrueBrain>I still hate git
14:26<TrueBrain>but it might work now ....
14:27<TrueBrain>please drop by when you do a new rebase, so I can check if it is still okay?
14:27<TrueBrain>that would be much appreciated :)
14:33<fonsinchen>OK
14:33<fonsinchen>thanks
14:34<TrueBrain>sorry about me rambling about git :P
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14:52*peter1138 grumbles at apt
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15:07<andythenorth>peter1138: foamers http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=foamer&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&rls=en&biw=1276&bih=668&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=_Z7gUPvWNsa80QWxjIGYDw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAA
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15:14<drac_boy>hi
15:16<andythenorth>hi drac_boy
15:16<andythenorth>how's your code going?
15:16<drac_boy>how doing? still drunk with beer? heh heh
15:16<andythenorth>have you shipped a release yet?
15:16<drac_boy>its still in tracking table stage
15:35<andythenorth>good luck
15:35*andythenorth -> pub
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15:35<drac_boy>heh
15:37<@planetmaker>get coding some concept, drac_boy
15:38<@planetmaker>keep your big plan in mind. But start making the actual first steps
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15:39<@planetmaker>you often get new ideas which coding anyway. And you'll find obstacles as well. Both of which will influence the result. And obsolete parts of the initial planning. Thus don't get too detailed before you have something to toy with
15:41<@planetmaker>otherwise you run the risk to create one of those eternal show-case and screenshot only "products" ;-)
15:43<drac_boy>planetmaker heh thats why I've had to ask about some of the industry and then plane things
15:43<drac_boy>the trains are still somwhat too easy on other hand :)
15:43<@planetmaker>all newgrfs are "easy". The devil is in the details
15:44<drac_boy>might be first screenshot would be just the trains alone tho...but who knows just yet
15:44<@planetmaker>if you want to address trains, planes and industries: that's three different newgrfs anyway
15:45<@planetmaker>at least it's calling for annoyance to mix them in one newgrf :-)
15:45<drac_boy>less annoyance than having a grf that doesn't work due to not having other grf tho
15:45<@planetmaker>planes, trains and industries can usually work well without the others
15:46<@planetmaker>what reason is there to put them in one single monolithic newgrf?
15:49<drac_boy>planetmaker I haven't found anything on this yet but what happens if you load a vehicle grf that has no cargo class to refit to at all?
15:50<@planetmaker>the usual thing which always happens: you have a problem. But that doesn't mean you should add vehicles to an industry newgrf
15:50<drac_boy>actually theres no problem...its just that the vehicle is not supposed to be stand-alone
15:50<@planetmaker>yes, they are
15:51<@planetmaker>it's openttd's task to warn the user that he'll have cargos he can't transport
15:51<drac_boy>planetmaker then could someone tell me what happens if you load a grf with no cargo class to use?
15:51<@planetmaker>I don't understand. There's no vehicle newgrf out htere which doesn't allow refit via classes
15:52<@planetmaker>if you add vehicles to your industry newgrf, you force the players to use your vehicles. While there are dozens of vehicle sets out there.
15:53-!-Arendtse1 is now known as Arendtsen
15:53<@planetmaker>and you limit the scope of your industries drastically
15:53<@peter1138>drac_boy, regarding your farm, that's what CB 14C can do
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16:12<__ln__>anyone been on a roadtrip in new york, new jersey, ohio, around there?
16:15<drac_boy>bulk+refrigerated+hazardous+powderized .... thats as close as it can get to the limited cargo class list for the planned chemical plant for one, not sure if the refit prop can take all of that in
16:16<drac_boy>__ln__ been to sycrasus twice some time ago but otherwise guess I'm no help with that sorry
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16:17<@planetmaker>drac_boy, the plant can only produce two cargos anyway
16:18<@planetmaker>you can change the accepted and produced cargos via callback.
16:18<@planetmaker>But I can guarantee you that it will become quite confusing for the players
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16:22<drac_boy>I wasn't really talking about the plant itself, rather more of the cargo it produced. the cargo class list just doesn't seem to have a good way to define some cargos without needing several classes combined together
16:24<drac_boy>at least some other things like wood are already obvious and existing
16:30<@peter1138>gah, bloody dogs
16:30<@peter1138>why do they have to love eating stuff which is really bad for them
16:31<@peter1138>drac_boy, cargo classes are already defined
16:31<drac_boy>I never understood that :-s .. I think goats are worser when they eat non-food things!
16:31<@peter1138>you could define your own but without concensus it's pointless
16:32<@peter1138>well, they're just gluttons like us, but we have a little more brain-power
16:32<@peter1138>but no, dog, you can't have that chocolate, nor that christmas pudding
16:33<drac_boy>mm :)
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16:40<@Terkhen>good night
16:40<drac_boy>btw planetmaker yeah the calback 14B/C I've read a bit about and indeed don't think I would want to consider it except for the industry warehouse thing perhaps
16:40<drac_boy>bye Terkhen
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16:49<@planetmaker>drac_boy, there's no problem to assign a few cargo classes to a certain cargo. But mind, "cargo class" is a property of a particular cargo
16:49<@planetmaker>not of an industry
16:50<@planetmaker>and mind what peter just said about classes :-)
16:52<@peter1138>yeah sometimes i know what i'm talking about :)
16:55<oskari89>ATM testing how low can cash be.
16:55<oskari89>I have game running about 160 years
16:56<Markk>Are you testing an ATM?
16:56<oskari89>No, OpenTTD.. 112 billion euros at negative amount
16:56<@peter1138>that's what i thought he meant first
17:07<Rubidium>oskari89: somewhere in the order of -2^63
17:07<@planetmaker>@calc 2**63
17:07<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 9223372036854775808
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17:08<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_UPDATE <-- what is {STRING} in this context?
17:09<Rubidium>though around -2^47 'base' currency it could get fishy when using a rate conversion of 65535
17:09-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
17:09<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_CONTENT_NO_ZLIB <-- grammatical error!!!
17:09<__ln__>btw, nobody can see the string without being logged in, which might be a bit silly, but a fact.
17:09<Superuser>I quote: {WHITE}OpenTTD is build without "zlib" support...
17:09<Superuser>built*
17:10<Wolf01>'night
17:10<__ln__>'nigth Wolf01
17:10<Superuser>bb
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17:10<Superuser>Terkhen: highlight
17:10<@planetmaker>Superuser, {STRING} can be like "NewGRF", "AI", etc.
17:10<Rubidium>Superuser: STR_CONTENT_TYPE_<xyz>
17:11<Superuser>τηανκσ
17:11<Superuser>thanks*
17:11<@planetmaker>it's another string. And why do you highlight t3rkhen?
17:11<Superuser>as for the no zlib string, please correct the English original to say 'built' instead of 'build'
17:11<Superuser>because, uhh, he has a good track record of getting my pedantic corrections in
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17:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24875 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2012-12-30 22:13:59 UTC)
17:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix: grammatical error (Superuser)
17:14<Superuser>legend
17:14<Superuser>I love you DorpsGek
17:14<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_CONTENT_DOWNLOAD_PROGRESS_SIZE <-- why is there a gap between the number {NUM} and the percentage symbol (%)?
17:14<@planetmaker>looks better. Better discernible numbers
17:15<@peter1138>hmm
17:16<@planetmaker>even though there usually shoud not be, I indeed find it useful to ignore the typographic rule there
17:16<Superuser>actually, in mathematical notation they are usually placed together
17:16<@planetmaker>Feel free to not leave it in your translation, if you think it is better to not keep the gap
17:17<Superuser>but most English style guides recommend symbols and notation such as 'm' for metres should in fact be placed with a space between them and the number
17:17<@planetmaker>in every notation it's usual to have no gap there. But test it. You see the numbers better with a gap
17:17<@peter1138>i'm missing black as a CC :(
17:18<@planetmaker>peter1138, dark gray
17:18<@planetmaker>black has few shades, really
17:18<@peter1138>not available, just grey :(
17:18<@peter1138>what we need
17:19<@peter1138>is some way to map any hue ;)
17:19<@peter1138>like the old 32bpp ez stuff used to do
17:19<@peter1138>but do it not badly, heh
17:20<@peter1138>pretty sure it wouldn't be that hard to do
17:29<@planetmaker>nite
17:39<Superuser>night
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18:22<SpComb>http://projects.qmsk.net/pngtile/screenshots/20121229/1962.png#16365:2190:0
18:22<SpComb>scuddles, eh
18:27*drac_boy can't find anything I like at all? :P
18:35<drac_boy>btw can you only check if an adjacent tile is water or not.. or can you check for sea vs canal?
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18:57<drac_boy>hi ZxBiohazardZx :)
18:57<ZxBiohazardZx>while running openttd in dedi mode is there an "easy" way to make it auto-pause if no clients are connected?
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18:57<ZxBiohazardZx>or does it pause when there are no clients?
18:59<ZxBiohazardZx>ok it does not
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20:05*drac_boy wonders what happens if a cargo weight is entered as zero....
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20:28<Kjetil>negative cargo weight! :P
20:35<drac_boy>Kjetil very funny, I was just thinking about special cargos that didn't really need to be weighted
20:35<drac_boy>or they could just weight one single 1/16t just as well I guess? hard to say :)
20:36<drac_boy>does make you wonder about the regear thing which could be considered a special non-cargo cargo anyhow
20:38<Flygon>What'd be really nice, would be locomotives and MU's that switch gears on the fly
20:38<Flygon>eg. a gearbox
20:39<drac_boy>flygon that may be a bit complicated since power is stated before the locomotive has even been purchased?
20:40<drac_boy>so if it says its 100kph then its always going to be 100kph etc
20:40<Flygon>So basically... you'd need a custom OpenTTD?
20:40<Flygon>Because Victoria, for example, has non-fixed geared DMU's
20:41<Flygon>And to add to the mess, also had a fixed gear motor additionally
20:41<drac_boy>flygon you'll basically need two specs for a lot of north america diesels then :P
20:42<Flygon>Basically: Victoria is a mindscrew
20:42<drac_boy>they had the thing called transitional gear. all the way back to the EMD GP7
20:43<drac_boy>and flygon, it could cause some amusing problems if a diesel hauled branch passenger train gets moving then finds out it wouldn't make the transition .. limps at 35mph to next station where a second locomotive could be found .. and you hope it *could* make transition as to get up to some real speed
20:44<Flygon>Haha, oh wow...
20:44<Flygon>I guess they didn't sort out some issues yet
20:44<Flygon>Were they manual or automatic?
20:48<drac_boy>usally automatic but some were automatic in one direction and manual in other (the early F units could get up to speed on their own but engineer had to slow it down themself)
20:48<Flygon>Oh, wow
20:48<Flygon>Here, they're fully automatic
20:48<drac_boy>so yeah when it wouldn't get up to transition usually you had three options 1. limp on the low gear 2. find another locomotive to haul instead 3. sideline the train and point locomotive to shed to try fix the cursing box
20:49<Flygon>Probably because we only seriously tried non-fixed gearing in the 1980s
20:49<Flygon>(I think there may have been manual attempts beforehand, but I am unsure)
20:52<Flygon>(for example, the 1920s McKeen railmotor may have been a mechanical transmission manual gearing gas engine'd railmotor... but I'm not 100% sure. Details are scarce because VR hated it_
20:55<drac_boy>flygon I forgot the name but in the 1930s there were some railcars that looked like a typical road bus on stretched chassis (even the hood looked more road than rail) ... needed a strong arm with the stiff transmission given on them. and don't ask about driving it in reverse with only the side mirrors to help a bit
20:55<Flygon>...heh
20:55<drac_boy>replaced a whole steam locomotive with just one single coach maybe..but even then it wasn't so popular for good reasons
20:56<Flygon>We had that stuff here
20:56<Flygon>Lemme get photos
20:56<Flygon>They lasted a while because the branchlines they were on were sparsely used, and had turntables anyway
20:57<drac_boy>turntables? not the old arm turntables? :P
20:57<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/AEC_railmotor_at_Mornington.jpg
20:58*Flygon shrug
20:58<Flygon>I just know it turned the bugger around
20:58<drac_boy>these kind were rather common on lightly used lines http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Turntable_at_OERM.jpg the reason for using lot of steel wires is that it kept the deck construction simple when you didn't have to brace it heavily .. just enough to hold true
20:59<drac_boy>and mm you can see the two push poles clearly :)
20:59<Flygon>I can't remember what sort of turntable was used here, sorry
20:59<Flygon>(also, AEC Railmotors were front-wheel drive)
20:59<drac_boy>flygon mind you some of these turntables were dated more or less close to when the line originally opened so sometimes even "newer" branch steam locomotives could have a bit funny time just almost fitting on :)
21:00<Flygon>(strangely, they're in the 2CC trainset... what a horrible addition :p)
21:00<Flygon>Heh... we had the same issue here
21:00<Flygon>We had steam loco's built very light per axle
21:00<Flygon>But waaay too long for branchlines they'd be useful for
21:00<drac_boy>nothing like a 1890's 2-6-0 sized turntable being barely just long enough to fit a later 4-8-0 even then with a short tender!
21:00<Flygon>(eg. upgrading the lines from a 60km/h service to 100km/h)
21:01<drac_boy>always had to crawl on slowly to get both front and rear axles to just stop within inches to spare
21:01<Flygon>Wow
21:01<drac_boy>flygon it wasn't just old arm turntables....
21:02<drac_boy>mallets could give major railroads a bit of headache with 'older' roundhouses ... I mean .. look at it .. a UP Big Boy is much longer than even the most modern 4-8-4 single locomotive
21:02<drac_boy>in some cases the mallets never used the turntable at all but turned around at a wye nearby then came back to the yard to sit for their next duty
21:03<Flygon>( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_Stuart_steam_railmotor At only 50,000 miles... something went wrong)
21:03<Flygon>Heh...
21:03<Flygon>We lack turntables here, too
21:03<Flygon>More often, triangle loops are used
21:04<Flygon>Probably because triangle loops also make switching the end a locomotive uses easier
21:04<Flygon>Good for steam and Diesel alike
21:05<drac_boy>the only reason they kept arm turntables on dieselized branchlines sometimes was when it came to being cheap due to low operating finances ....
21:05<Flygon>Wow
21:05<drac_boy>usually the locomotive would be a rear-endcab road switcher with only one set of controls
21:05<drac_boy>so it was easy to have them turned around than trying to drive backward with a bad neck bend
21:06<drac_boy>the GP7 could be ordered as either single or dual control stands .. and in some cases was ordered single but later refitted for dual
21:09<drac_boy>flygon this is one of the many kind of light locomotives that were used on old branchlines http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs13/i/2007/123/7/1/Baldwin_diesel_switcher_by_classictrains.jpg
21:09<drac_boy>you can see why with only one cab control for forward direction they may be wanting to turn them around on the turntable at end of route :)
21:10<Flygon>Had to brb
21:10<Flygon>Heh...
21:11<Flygon>If it was me
21:11<Flygon>I'd just use two locomotives :p
21:11<Flygon>http://www.branchline.com.au/sitebuilder/products/large/16351/thsdiesel.jpg Would have been great for a loco on each end
21:11<Flygon>Would have looked cool. Like the BR125
21:11<Flygon>Except it'd cap @ 130 :P
21:12<Flygon>(though, their close cousins, the A-class, did nearly break 180km/h)
21:12<drac_boy>problem is the cost of two locomotives, pointless most of the times
21:12<drac_boy>;)
21:12<Flygon>Then get into the mainline express business
21:13<Flygon>Or high demand commuter business :p
21:13<Stimrol>(translation) any one know where this can be found STR_COMPANY_VIEW_INFRASTRUCTURE_STATION ingame (something to do with station tile)
21:13<drac_boy>flygon some branchlines even then only had say a saturated steam 2-6-0 with low boiler pressure. these kind were usually replaced with something like http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/Timesaver/HBS-2.JPG if there was the trade-in money for it
21:14<drac_boy>basically a GE 44-tonner (name refer to weight) with single or twin engine option
21:14<Flygon>Doesn't seem too odd
21:16<drac_boy>flygon mind you some of them could end up (as strange as that sounds) with a truck's engine shoved in when the original one broke and they didn't want to bother having to get it forwarded over a big railroad's track to a heavy repair shed
21:16<Flygon>Huh... the evolution of the S/B class looks weird... seems they used the B-class as a base for the electric L-class... which NSW turned back into a Diesel with the same lightweight body @_@
21:16<Flygon>That doesn't sound too strange
21:16<Flygon>Heck, we've converted trucks into locomotives here
21:16<drac_boy>was much easier for them to do that themself...get the hood panels off .. torch the frame out of the way .. lift the engine onto ground .. lift ex-truck engine from trailer into the chassis ... and weld the hood back on
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21:17<drac_boy>so a GE locomotive with a Detriot or Cummin engine wasn't too unheard of
21:17<Flygon>http://www.gunzelgallery.hobbiesplus.com.au/Rtl10001cr.jpg
21:18<Flygon>(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9885/1001367xq.jpg This photo better shows how it actually worked)
21:19<Flygon>I take it such engine swaps broke the warranty? :p
21:19<drac_boy>actually no
21:20<drac_boy>its just that to swap a rail engine would had required a major repair shop .. which small lines rarely even have
21:20<Flygon>I was making a bad joke, silly
21:20<drac_boy>np
21:21<drac_boy>flygon mind you some of the old small railroads could get clever with repairs
21:21<drac_boy>don't ask about using an old piece of tree as a temporary suspension leaf!
21:21<drac_boy>the locomotive was rather light so it didn't bother the rough tree piece a bit
21:21<Flygon>Oh wow
21:22<Flygon>You never really got that sort of stuff here :p
21:22<Flygon>If something broke, it went to Melbourne (or if it was around Adeliade... Adelaide :p)
21:22<drac_boy>flygon well you have to remember that these old branchline lines often had little traffics so it was not a surprise that locomotives were always rather old :)
21:23*Flygon nod
21:23<drac_boy>a saturated steam 2-6-0 with no stroker in 1956? I think you know where you only will find them :)
21:25<Flygon>Victoria?
21:25<drac_boy>nope
21:26<drac_boy>on an old freight-only back country line that doesn't even really know theres superheated locomotives or even EMD FT's out there :)
21:26<drac_boy>heh
21:27<Flygon>I was being semi-serious :p
21:28<drac_boy>flygon mind you some isolated mine/field railroads actually still had pin&loop couplers into the 1970's long after it had been abolished from just about any standard railroads
21:28<Flygon>Wow
21:28<drac_boy>no knuckle couplers!
21:28<Flygon>Sounds dangerous
21:28<drac_boy>well they were 10-30kph trains with tiny locomotives so
21:28<Flygon>Touche
21:29<drac_boy>think of something a bit like this uk thing but with a full cab instead http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/fetchimage.php?imgref=7019
21:30<drac_boy>thats how small and slow such isolated lines were...and hence why FRA didn't bother sending knuckle couplers over to them
21:31<Flygon>...
21:32<Flygon>Geeze
21:33<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/VR_RT20.JPG SO basically, this, with different couplers
21:33<Flygon>Amusingly, it has more horsepower than an AEC Railcar :p
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21:40<drac_boy>flygon I'm going to bed, see you another time with all our usual stories? :P
21:40<Flygon>Alright :)
21:40<Flygon>Sleep well
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 31 00:00:35 2012