Back to Home / #openttd / 2013 / 01 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-07

---Logopened Mon Jan 07 00:00:49 2013
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4219.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD54C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:27-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:58-!-Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd
02:18-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.246] has joined #openttd
02:21-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-103.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
02:23-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
02:35-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
02:41-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
02:51-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:53-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
02:54-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-014-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
03:05<Flygon>Okay, well, according to Civilization II
03:05<Flygon>By 900AD
03:05<Flygon>There'll be Romans with Bronze Steam Trains, because they never discovered Iron Working
03:05<Flygon>GRF plzkthx :P
03:06-!-Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04ff99.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
03:06-!-mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ
03:06<@Celestar>mowning
03:06<Flygon>Morning Celestar
03:06<Flygon>It's 900AD
03:06<Flygon>And I've got Bronze Steam Trains
03:06<Flygon>Apperantly the Romans never invented Iron
03:08-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
03:10-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
03:10-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
03:15-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-24-31.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:17-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:20<Flygon>Pffthahaha...
03:21<Flygon>Refining... bringing about refining Bronze and Power Plants without discovering Electricity
03:21<Flygon>Is Bronze even a refinable meta?
03:21<Flygon>metal*
03:30<TinoDidriksen>I'd say no, since it's an alloy of two already refined metals.
03:31<Flygon>TinoDidriksen: It's official. Civilization II research makes no sense. Even when following the official tech tree.
03:31<Flygon>Even more baffling, none of the AI have figured out Iron Working
03:33<Flygon>By this point, I'm purposely avoiding it, for laughs
03:55-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
04:07-!-Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
04:12-!-Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:13-!-Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
04:13-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:16-!-Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit []
04:23-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]]
04:23-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
04:27<@Terkhen>good morning
04:30-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: .]
04:36-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
04:36<@Celestar>yo
04:41<@planetmaker>moin
04:42-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
04:54<Flygon>Annnnd
04:54<Flygon>I've finally broken the game
04:55<Flygon>:D
04:56<Flygon>Crud
04:56<Flygon>Great Library FINALLY gives Iron Working
05:19<Pinkbeast>I know that game, but it's not OTTD. :-)
05:24-!-Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:28<dihedral>hello
05:34<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
05:39<Eddi|zuHause>i think great library is one of the most imbalanced wonders in that game
05:41<Flygon>Eddi: Nah. Pyramids.
05:42<Flygon>Pyramids + City Sprawl = Ooooooooh yeah
05:51<Pinkbeast>Which Civ are we on?
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: anyway, refining is about oil, why would you need iron for that? and especially electricity rather needs copper than iron
05:54<Flygon>Eddi: Because it was about refining metal
05:55<Flygon>Pinkbeast: II
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure how the Civ2 techtree worked anyway
05:56<Pinkbeast>I think the tech trees often assume some early tech is implicit - you can build Civ 4 battleships without Rifling, Artillery, or Steel (except I think one of those isn't true)
05:57<Pinkbeast>And most of _Rocket_ is copper and wood, so why not steam railways without Iron Working, anyway?
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>might have durability issues with copper rails ;)
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>(or cost issues :p)
05:58<Pinkbeast>Ahem, fair point. :-)
05:59<@Terkhen>what's the point of a battleship without artillery? is it going to wave white flags at the enemy?
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they put normal cannons in them :p
06:01<Pinkbeast>That would be the largely useless Ironclad that comes out with Steam Power
06:02<@Terkhen>oh, I assumed that "artillery" in english referred to both cannons and modern stuff :P
06:08<Flygon>You can make wooden rail railways with Copper/Bronze locomotives
06:09<Flygon>But it requires giant wheels (like a tyre-less car wheel), large logs, and you have a terrible speed and axle loading
06:10<@Terkhen>sounds like a fun ride
06:10<@Terkhen>are you planning to make a "I did not research iron working in Civilization II" train and railtype NewGRF?
06:11<Flygon>No
06:11<Flygon>:P
06:11<@planetmaker>wooden rails only
06:11<Flygon>I do think wooden rails have potential, though
06:12<Flygon>They were in regular use pre-1830s and around the 1880s to 1930s for logging railways, iirc...
06:12*planetmaker ponders high-speed wood rails ;-)
06:13<Flygon>Rubber tyres? :P
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>there are wooden railways in use until today
06:13<Flygon>That wouldn't surprise me
06:14<Flygon>Heck, the Melbourne suburban network is way more wood than steel :B
06:14<Flygon>Where do you park Diesel HST's? Why on 70 year old wooden sleepers, of course! :B
06:14<Flygon>But, yeah, wooden railed railways...
06:15<Flygon>Eddi: There's Diesel versions of wooden railway locomotives manufactured?
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>wooden sleepers have advantages over concrete sleepers
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: sure, why not?
06:15<Flygon>Easier switch manufacturing?
06:15<@planetmaker>yes. they have a bigger young's modulus
06:15<@planetmaker>and better temperature response
06:15<Flygon>I'd have thought sleeperless or steel-sleepered track would be most sensible
06:15-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:15<Flygon>...planetmaker
06:16<Flygon>Wooden sleepers here are responsible for derailings in 40c+ temperatures
06:16<Flygon>They have terrible temperature response
06:16<Flygon>Hence, my comments about sleeperless or steel sleepers
06:16<Flygon>Concrete is cool too :D
06:16<@planetmaker>it's the rails which have the bad response :-)
06:16<@planetmaker>concrete is harder, thus keeps on higher tension the expanding rails in place
06:17<Flygon>planetmaker: Lemme rephrase that
06:17<@planetmaker>while wood would just allow more tension, thus more deformation.
06:17<Flygon>We have very old wooden sleepers here
06:17<@planetmaker>s/tension/stress
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>soo... civ2 still crashes in wine :/
06:17<@planetmaker>so does civ4, too
06:17<Flygon>A Hitachi train derailed recently, because the weight of it ended up splitting some sleepers apartt
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>i've never had problems with civ4
06:18<@planetmaker>it never worked for me :O
06:18<Flygon>Eddi: I thought it worked?
06:18<@planetmaker>you need to walk me through that somewhen, Eddi|zuHause
06:18<Flygon>CivII Classic or Multiplayer?
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>classic i suppose
06:18<Flygon>Hmmmmmm
06:19<@Terkhen>I've been playing to CivIV on wine for a month and I did not run into any problems either
06:19<Flygon>Send me your units.gif
06:19<Pinkbeast>Terkhen: It depends on context, could mean either, but in Civ 4 terms "Artillery" the unit is not cannon but more sophisticated rifled guns
06:20<Pinkbeast>(just as there are lots of kinds of infantry, but "Infantry" is the 20-strength unit that replaces Riflemen)
06:20-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
06:21<@Terkhen>I see, it's been too long since I played vanilla civ :P
06:25<@peter1138>http://imgur.com/gallery/QQmw9
06:25<@peter1138>new rail type!
06:30<Flygon>Real men play Alpha Centauri
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i can't seem to run civ2 in my win3.1 installation (seems to miss some files, but it doesn't tell me which)
06:30<@Terkhen>I opened the SMAC mod for CivIV once, I did not understand anything at all about it
06:30<@Terkhen>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32285 <--- that rail type has been suggested, there are patches at the forums :P
06:32<Flygon>Terkhen: I mean actual SMACX
06:32<Flygon>It's a very unique Civ
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: the civ4 mod misses out the unit designer :/
06:32<@Terkhen>and I'm implying that if I did not understand a somewhat modern mod, I cannot hope to understand the old, original game :P
06:33<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: no idea, I got confused about the sheer amount of features that I did not understand and left :P
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>i found it rather good in general :)
06:33<Flygon>All SMACX is is just Civilization II on steriods
06:33<Flygon>It even uses the same engine
06:33<Flygon>Hotkeys take getting used to, though
06:34<Flygon>I keep pressing F in Civ II for Farm... and I end up building a Fortress
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto15.png
06:37<Flygon>That isn't SMAC
06:37<Flygon>It lacks 3D isometric heightmaps
06:37<Flygon>D:
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>no, but it's a crazily huge city in the middle of ice :p
06:38<Flygon>That's what game mods are for :B
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>there was some wonder like "+2 food per doctor in this city, +2 food per great doctor in this city, +1 food per doctor in every city" or so
06:40<Flygon>In base SMAC?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, in this Civ4 mod
06:41<Flygon>Oh
06:41<Flygon>I see
06:41<Pinkbeast>What I always remembered about SMAC was that commerce was now "energy", with higher tiles producing more because they are closer to the sun. And half the units are nuclear-powered. Er.
06:41<Flygon>Actually
06:42<Flygon>Units that were fuel powered happened
06:42<Flygon>eg. Needlejets
06:42<Flygon>But they still used reactors too
06:43-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
06:43<drac_boy>hi
06:44<Flygon>drac_boy
06:44<Flygon>Guess what
06:44<Flygon>Something amazing happened
06:44<Flygon>Something invigorating
06:44<Flygon>My love life with Civilization and SMACX returned
06:44<drac_boy>?
06:44<Pinkbeast>My point is that if you are routinely installing fusion plants in ordinary infantry you don't really care how close the top of the hill is to the sun
06:45<Flygon>Pinkbeast: When you've first landed on planet, you're very lacking in fuel in a hostile environment
06:45<Flygon>As much electricity as possible consumes as little fuel as possible
06:45<Pinkbeast>Except that even then every single unit you can build has a fission reactor in
06:45<Pinkbeast>So obviously they are in fact cheap as dirt and this doesn't make a lick of sense
06:46<Flygon>Life support?
06:46<Flygon>Look, there's SOME gameplay-story segregation :P
06:47<Flygon>Let's look at it this way
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: can you please decide whether you're talking about fusion or fission? they're, like, opposite things, you know.
06:47<Flygon>It's clear that the economy early on works almost entirely with just base resources, no solar panels
06:47<Pinkbeast>Eddi: every time I have used either of those words I have meant the one I used.
06:47<Flygon>To me, this is indicative that they're using in-city Nuclear Reactors
06:48<Pinkbeast>I just remember it because it was such a monstrous failure of suspension of disbelief.
06:48<Flygon>Where Solar Panels/Sea Turbines and Boreholes are supplimental sources of energy
06:49<Flygon>Or: Enough to ease the amount of work in-city plants have to work
06:49<Flygon>The resources saved on those plants are beneficial for the economy
06:49<Flygon>Enough energy and minerals ultimately supplants base power stations for energy supply
06:49<Pinkbeast>Which would make perfect sense... if nuclear power was not so cheap as to routinely install it in all military and civilian units
06:49<Flygon>I'm referring to fuel being expensive
06:50<Pinkbeast>To which fuel specifically?
06:50<Flygon>It's entirely feasable that they use a minimal amount of fuel (individual units, specifically)
06:50<Flygon>Nuclear Fuel
06:50-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
06:50<Flygon>Y'know, plutonium, thorium
06:51<Pinkbeast>So every unit has a teeny-tiny sliver of the stuff in? Hm.
06:51<Pinkbeast>Neatly rationalised. :-)
06:51<Flygon>Also, keep in mind
06:52<Flygon>Early-game, just churning out units puts a huge load on your city's mineral support resources
06:52<Flygon>Probably why Boreholes are so overpowering... a trivial resource for nuclear (and other... coal? :P) fuels
06:53<Flygon>Also, the heat generated by the boreholes themselves also generate power
06:53<Flygon>The only thing unscientific about Alpha Centauri is Supply Crawlers and the Borg faction (to an extent) :P
06:54<Pinkbeast>Errr well this is a reasonable rationalisation but we are required to believe that all fissibles / fusibles / whatever the next two reactor technologies use is in extremely short supply
06:54<Pinkbeast>... well, and psi powers etc
06:55<Flygon>Psi Powers is just the human's ability to withstand the terror of physical mindrape
06:55<Flygon>A terrified human won't turn on the flamethrower
06:55<Flygon>A battle-hardened Spartan dude will just stand there with a grin on his face and push the nozzle to full
06:56<Pinkbeast>Again, nicely rationalised
06:56<Flygon>And by the time you achive Fusion power, you generally have a very strong foothold
06:56<Flygon>Or are very good at negotiating with more advanced factions
06:57<Flygon>And by the time anybody achieves Quantum and Singularity reaction, it's very late-game, and you'll generally have planet-sprawling factions
06:57<Flygon>Basically, it's easy to assume that the raw resources required are minable
06:57<Flygon>Also, something to note
06:57<Flygon>Meteorite mining tech is invented by then
06:58<Flygon>Lacking enough, say, Titanium? Whack a mining probe up and launch it to a nearby meteor
06:59<Pinkbeast>You're not helping the case here.
06:59<Pinkbeast>If you can do that, the idea that the difference between the top of the hill and the bottom is significant in terms of solar power generation is clearly laughable.
07:00<Flygon>That bit is story-and-gameplay segregation
07:00<Flygon>Frankly, however
07:00<Flygon>Any good player doesn't bother with solar panels
07:00<Flygon>They have neglible power output, for the effort needed
07:00<Flygon>It's faster to set up sea turbines and plant forests
07:00<Flygon>And forests also = Minnerals
07:01<Pinkbeast>But their output is still significant numbers of energy credits.
07:01<Flygon>On their own? Yes
07:01<Flygon>Compared to Boreholes, Forests, and Sea Turbines? No
07:01<Pinkbeast>You don't build Lumbermills in Civ 4 if you know what you're doing, but we are still required to suppose that they produce meaningful amounts of production.
07:02<Flygon>Hmm
07:02<Pinkbeast>And if I can yoink a meteor down any time I want one 1) clearly that energy output is trivial and 2) I cannot possibly be short of fissibles AND fusibles AND whatever the other two reactor techs run on.
07:02-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>i frequently build lumber mills... why not?
07:03<Flygon>Again, Solar Panels become gradually worse as time goes on anyway
07:03<Pinkbeast>Because you should have chopped those trees earlier.
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>especially in the city that'll get the "1 specialist per forest" national wonder
07:04<Pinkbeast>Which is none, because you should have... now, I know what you're going to say, but no; jam today is worth more than jam tomorrow.
07:04<Flygon>And, again, the last two reactors are Quantum based, and Singularity based... forgot exactly how the Quantum mechanics version worked
07:05<Flygon>But Singularity leads me to believe that they managed to generate power indefinitely in a single reactor
07:06<Flygon>There's a good explanation in the datalinks, but cbf booting other PC that has SMACX on it
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>i've never really understood what triggered these intermezzos where it talks about talking to the planet or so
07:07<Flygon>Ah
07:07<Flygon>That, is complex
07:07<Flygon>And actually requires some reading of the manual and datalinks
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>they're also not in the civ4 mod, i think
07:08<Flygon>But to put it unscientifically, telepathy
07:08<Flygon>And general storyline explanations
07:08<Pinkbeast>So everything in the game's scientific, hm? :-)
07:08<Flygon>Some are exchanges regarding Planet, some are otherwise
07:08<Flygon>Not everything is scientific
07:09<Flygon>Especially in the expansion, what with the alien factions (that actually flesh out the story nicely)
07:09<Pinkbeast>"The only thing unscientific about Alpha Centauri is Supply Crawlers and the Borg faction" :-P
07:09<Flygon>I should have added an asterisk
07:10<Flygon>Point is
07:10<Flygon>90% of the time
07:10<Flygon>There's a pretty good justification
07:10<Flygon>The other 10% is Star Trek
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>i only had SMAC, not SMACX, so i don't know anything about "the borg faction"
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm sure they're not actually called that :p)
07:11<Flygon>http://sidmeiersalphacentauri.wikia.com/wiki/Cybernetic_Consciousness
07:12<Flygon>Basically, based off a late-game tech, but supposedly all citizens have implants at the start of landing on planet
07:12<Flygon>Though, it could be justified in that it's not as sofistocated initially...
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>ah, those... the Civ4 mod starts those on the planet if a faction researches <X> technology
07:14<Pinkbeast>Like religions?
07:14<Flygon>Oh
07:14<Flygon>The CivIV mod changed the story?
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely like religions
07:14<Flygon>And there was only one outright religious faction
07:14<Flygon>http://sidmeiersalphacentauri.wikia.com/wiki/Lord%27s_Believers
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>there are also religions in that mod
07:15<Flygon>Oh, wait
07:15<Flygon>http://sidmeiersalphacentauri.wikia.com/wiki/Cult_of_Planet This is also pretty religious
07:18-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: like i said, i'm not entirely sure what the SMACX story was, because i never played that game...
07:18<Flygon>Ah, rightyo
07:18<Flygon>There's a novel :P
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>but this mod basically starts with the "original" factions, and the new factions start later depending on how advanced it gets
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>i think they just get a random city somewhere, but with one faction it said "takes over the city where this wonder is built" or so
07:22<Flygon>Hmm...
07:23-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:24<Pinkbeast>That would be a bit of a poisoned chalice even if they started as your vassal
07:26<Flygon>I still think people would prefer Alpha Centauri if 14-21 players at once was possible
07:26<Flygon>It'd make giant maps and the amosphere MUCH better
07:26<Flygon>Lots of different factions on one planet
07:27<Flygon>It's a boiler waiting to explode
07:27<Flygon>Especially when Planet Busters are involved
07:27<Flygon>Miriam got a Planet Buster? Nuke her first for the sake of planet.
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: i think it said "joins your team", not sure whether that means wonders and stuff is shared as well, but research certainly is
07:40<Flygon>Okay, I can see how that's op
07:40<Flygon>Zakrov + Cyborgs = FUUUUUUUUUUUU-
07:40<Flygon>It's like when the Borg and the Cybermen worked togeter @_@
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember which faction that was
07:44<Flygon>Borg and Cybermen are Star Trek and Doctor Who races
07:45<Flygon>Zakrov is mad Russian scientist, Cyborgs are the ones I mentioned earlier
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>no, i mean the one that joins your team
07:50<Flygon>Oh
07:50<Flygon>Sorry
08:22-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
08:50-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
08:54-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:56-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>"statistically, every german eats 8 döner per year" <-- i think i beat that easily :p
09:21<@Celestar>:P
09:21<@Celestar>I am about average I'd say
09:26<drac_boy>whats a doner?
09:27<@Belugas>hello
09:28<@Terkhen>hi Belugas
09:28<Pinkbeast>Kebab meat in pitta bread, here, with sauce of at best dubious origin and maybe some lettuce or something like that
09:28<drac_boy>oh
09:28<drac_boy>never had any kind of wraps that much here
09:28<@Terkhen>I beat that by a big margin too, although I'm not german and therefore I cannot help with that statistic :P
09:29<Pinkbeast>If you eat them they form a nice transition from drinking too much beer to vomiting. # I don't, can you tell?
09:29<Flygon>I don't eat dinner
09:29<Flygon>I eat a lot of sausages
09:29<Flygon>It depends how often I go out
09:35<@Belugas>hey Terkhen. gimme your hot sun, pleeeease!
09:35<@Belugas>freezing hard in here
09:36<@planetmaker>Hi Belugas freezing? oh oh. On new year I saw the first flowers starting to sprout
09:38<@Belugas>i would be tempted to think you're a liar, but after all, you're not on the same planet anyway ;)
09:42<@planetmaker>:D Nah, quite honestly, temperatures below 5°C even at night are currently rare. No freezing for weeks really
09:43<@Terkhen>Belugas: if I could I would send you some :P
09:44<@Belugas>i know you would ;)
09:44<@Terkhen>you make me feel guilty for thinking "today is quite cold"
09:44<@Terkhen>either guilty or weak :P
09:44<@Terkhen>we are at 4C :O
09:44<@Belugas>don't be. after all, it's another climate
09:45<@Belugas>-14 this morning. with wind, -18
09:47<@Terkhen>that's truly cold :P
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>it's called the gulf stream :p
09:47<@Belugas>we're supposed to have more or less -5 -10 for the rest of the week, so today might be the lowest
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>the sun is not really much different
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>this was probably the warmest new year i've ever seen
09:48<@Belugas>and it's called the labrador stream here :S
09:48<@Belugas>we've have a record snow fall right after christmas: 50cm
09:49<@Belugas>and it keeps on falling almost since then
09:49<@Belugas>they say snow is a good isolant. I don't believe them
09:50<@peter1138>hmm, portable structs :S
09:50<@peter1138>library with structs, compiled with gcc, to be consumed by msvc
09:50<@peter1138>gcc/msvc different on interpretation of struct layout
09:51<@Belugas>ho... those structs... i though you meant bridges that i can carry to cross streets...
10:13<@planetmaker>I sometimes wonder whether people really checked what they claim they did :D http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=63881
10:18-!-Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i presume he just was expecting an action14-style menu
10:19<drac_boy>heh
10:19<@planetmaker>that might be the case. Which actually led me to create a long answer :-)
10:19<drac_boy>planetmaker how about RTFM? :)
10:19<@planetmaker>drac_boy, nope. He - rightfully - expects action14 support and a GUI to set parameters nicely with each of them described
10:20<@planetmaker>that technique is supported for more than two years already. So it can reasonably be expected by anything not antique
10:20<@planetmaker>adding random numbers in random positions is... quite 1990. But we got 2012 :D
10:22<@planetmaker>luckily adding action14 is usually a piece of cake
10:23<@planetmaker>(tbh, I'm waiting for the question how he can add those :D )
10:23-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:25<@planetmaker>the annoyance with the numbered parameters and my love for those houses was the only reason I ever updated ttrs :-)
10:28-!-Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:52-!-kamnet [4cb15ba8@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
10:52<kamnet>Has anybody ever considered setting up shop on CNet? http://download.cnet.com/windows/openttd/3260-20_4-10099327.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody
10:55<@Terkhen>if we would, we would have written the game name correctly :)
10:56<@Terkhen>I don't get all those pages that mirror everything they can
10:56<@peter1138>badly at that
10:56<kamnet>Advertising/subscription revenue.
10:57<kamnet>But, think of it more as a free advertising opportunity that exposes the game to many people who might otherwise be ignorant of it.
10:57<@peter1138>don't think that's important to us
10:58<@peter1138>gnome became concerned about brand, and look where that led
10:58<kamnet>If somebody representing OpenTTD were able to control such pages, the quality of information being distributed about the game would be much better.
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>kamnet: so, and who of us do you propose should waste time on this?
11:02<kamnet>I wouldn't mind doing it, if there was no objection from the community.
11:09<@peter1138>i dunno, your record on information quality is lackign :p
11:09-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
11:11<kamnet>Oh, is it now? :-)
11:15<@planetmaker>the problem I see is indeed the maintenance. It's a question of manpower. IMHO feel free to request access and maintain it
11:17<@planetmaker>the same issues arise with all these kind of platform. Also like android market, steam, and similar services
11:17<kamnet>If we don't evangelize a little, we won't get new people who will come into the community, play and plant roots of their own.
11:18<@planetmaker>it's one of those tasks where everyone thinks that someone should do what anyone could do - but noone actually does ;-)
11:19<@Belugas>responsibilites...
11:19<@Belugas>yurk
11:23<drac_boy>heh
11:24<@planetmaker>same thing with responsibilities: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OpenTTD/13607694555
11:25<@planetmaker>https://plus.google.com/113758069950805798160/posts as well. Why do we re-post simutrans releases?
11:25<@planetmaker>but google+ seems much better maintained
11:27<@planetmaker>hm. Nice. Zeph uses it as openttd / graphics blog :)
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>is that a timestamp at the end of that url?
11:27<@Terkhen>:P
11:28<@planetmaker>Zeph's blog post is from today. 5 parts on making zbase
11:29<@Terkhen>do you mean in google+?
11:29<@Terkhen>I saw those in twitter
11:29<@planetmaker>yes. google+
11:30<@planetmaker>which is... actually linked there. it's on another website, but yes :-)
11:30<@Terkhen>:)
11:35<@peter1138>hhaha
11:35<@peter1138>slight bug with my stations/bridges patch
11:35<@peter1138>it doesn't bump the savegame version
11:35<@peter1138>looks a bit weird :p
11:35<kamnet>I believe Jupex was actually operating an up-to-date OpenTTD Facebook page.
11:36<andythenorth>hrm
11:36<andythenorth>I'm getting pms about how to get grfs and crap
11:36<andythenorth>can't decide if that's just annoying, or a good sign that in-game content is not obvious enough how to use
11:36*planetmaker hugs andythenorth. I got two today already, too
11:36<andythenorth>like, the link to release thread I gave was clearly not enough
11:37<andythenorth>so either too hard, or we have a new crop of lazy users
11:37<andythenorth>or both
11:37<@planetmaker>not banana-fied?
11:37<kamnet>I think it's new crop of lazy users
11:37<Rubidium>andythenorth: braindead users
11:37<Rubidium>they can only do a particular trick without thinking
11:38<Rubidium>*if* you add an item to a list they are using, they have no clue anymore how to do it
11:38*drac_boy prefers to download from source website alone
11:38*planetmaker doesn't use such grfs
11:39<kamnet>Ah, I believe this is Jupex's page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/OpenTTD/285594021519741
11:39<@planetmaker>it's a pain. Mostly as *I* then have to give support to users who don't understand why they don't find stuff where it could be conveniently found
11:40<drac_boy>its the same thing as if I wanted a particular painter's picture I go to his open house
11:40<drac_boy>but to our own ways there :)
11:41<@planetmaker>yes. it's easy for you. You don't get all those complaints :-( Sadly
11:41<kamnet>Perhaps we re-direct the complaints to drac_boy frmo now on? ;-)
11:41<@planetmaker>*random person not uploading releases to bananas*, I'd say
11:42<@planetmaker>but that's *also* work for me.
11:42<@planetmaker>virtually unnecessary one.
11:43<drac_boy>kamnet nope...not my fault they can't bother understanding the meaning of the word 'arthor' :)
11:43<@planetmaker>especially as online content can URL-link ingame to the website, offer ingame readme, license info, etc
11:44<andythenorth>drac_boy: what does "arthor" mean?
11:45<Pinkbeast>One who writes about Arthur. Mallory is an arthor.
11:45<andythenorth>I have looked in a dictionary
11:46<drac_boy>'the maker of anything; creator; originator'
11:47<kamnet>I am Arthur the Originator, the Maker of Anything! (TM)
11:47<andythenorth>sounds a bit tree-related to me
11:47<drac_boy>andythenorth nope its to do with anything thats a creation
11:47<andythenorth>or is it compression of art-whore?
11:48<drac_boy>funny thing is the computer era defintion additional mentions 'writer of a software'
11:48<kamnet>drac_boy: you mean "author", not "arthor".
11:48<Pinkbeast>No, it's a sort of pirate-y Norse god. "Arrr, Thor!"
11:48<andythenorth>Pinkbeast: google agrees about arthur
11:49-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5550.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
11:50<andythenorth>drac_boy: I think you meant Arthur, the children's character
11:50<andythenorth>or at least that's google's suggestion for your word
11:50<andythenorth>but what does that have to do with newgrfs?
11:51<kamnet>They're drawn by DW?
11:53<drac_boy>andythenorth grf would be a new creation when drawn .. so it fits with the 'creator' definition :)
11:55<andythenorth>herp
11:55<andythenorth>but why is this not in my dictionary?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we should disallow loading grfs that are not on bananas :p
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>and then add some developer option that we only give cryptic hints on when people ask about it :p
12:00<drac_boy>eddi that would basically block any forum thread downloaded betas
12:00<drac_boy>basically you'll then have to shut off the forum storage just as well
12:00<Pinkbeast>It's easy enough to find out the other option they only give cryptic hints about
12:02<andythenorth>bananas should handle betas better anyway
12:02<andythenorth>biab
12:02<drac_boy>andythenorth except that who's going to keep scanning forums to keep the list updated?
12:02<andythenorth>nobody
12:02<andythenorth>none issue
12:02<drac_boy>thn why do you think its 'better' silly
12:02<andythenorth>?
12:03<andythenorth>what's the problem you're solving?
12:03<andythenorth>or what problem do you think I'm solving?
12:03<andythenorth>before we waste time :)
12:03-!-dothacker [~dothacker@cpe-74-67-18-57.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:03<drac_boy>andythenorth yours..you say it'll be better on bananas...i asked who is going to keep that list updated?
12:03<andythenorth>who keeps bananas updated now?
12:05<andythenorth>I reckon it will be ok ;)
12:17-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
12:18<drac_boy>lunch now :p
12:18-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
12:19-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm... maybe railtypes should provide shiny/rusty/grassy/abandoned graphics for their rails?
12:24*Pinkbeast mutters that getting away from the limit of 16 (and yes I know bits in the map data structure, not easy) would be nicer :-/
12:24<dihedral>grassy = shiny + grass, abandond = rusyt + grass ?
12:24<andythenorth>funny chap drac boy
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: no, i meant that as 4 levels of usage frequency
12:25<andythenorth>he's having lunch rather late for one thing :P
12:25-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>like here: the front to right line is "rusty" (occasionally used) and the left one is "grassy" (used a rather long time ago): http://www.lichtpower.de/Drehscheibe/Diverse_6665k.jpg
12:26<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I am +1 to some pointless eye candy :)
12:26<andythenorth>how hard can it be? :P
12:27<Pinkbeast>Getting it right so all lines in $player's game don't end up shiny / abandoned
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: he's canadian, what do you expect :p
12:27<dihedral>i'd already consider the left part abandond :-D
12:27<andythenorth>also Railroad Tycoon had usage graphs for infrastructure (coloured by frequency / congestion)
12:28<andythenorth>which would seem to be implied as possible by whatever makes rusty rails possible :P
12:28<dihedral>remake the map array :-P
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: well, maybe the borders are fuzzy :p
12:28<andythenorth>dihedral: oh that quick little task
12:28<andythenorth>ok, I'll be done by tomorrow :P
12:28<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: "he's canadian, what do you expect" <- can we use that as a general commentary?
12:28<andythenorth>maybe on the topic?
12:29<andythenorth>;)
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>i mean there's abandoned, and then there's abandoned: http://www.lichtpower.de/Drehscheibe/Diverse_6427k.jpg :p
12:29<Pinkbeast>Hockey, Kraft Dinner, Timmies, and eating bacon with maple syrup
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.lichtpower.de/Drehscheibe/Diverse_6425k.jpg
12:30-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:30<andythenorth>hmm, baby duties
12:30-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
12:30<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, LOL
12:31<dihedral>trees on rails - that'll make the devs happy :-D
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>this was in the middle of berlin, btw
12:32<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: also, over here http://www.nbl.fi/~nbl3392/kuvat/DSC_0085.JPG
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>more specifically, the railyard of the "Anhalter Bahnhof"
12:36<V453000>how does one make a town name newgrf?
12:36<V453000>I need some list of words and?
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: there are examples somewhere
12:37<V453000>havent found those :d
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: list of complete words is easiest, but you can also compose it of word-parts
12:37<V453000>word parts sound more fun
12:37<V453000>the resulting words can be wtf
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: around here i think: https://maps.google.de/?ll=52.498015,13.377882
12:38<V453000>hm is action F in nml?
12:39<V453000>ah found it
12:40<frosch123>V453000: there are about 2 dozen town name grf on the devzone
12:40<V453000>ah it is under town names project
12:40<frosch123>yeah, because there were so many :p
12:42<@planetmaker>V453000, look at the zillion examples on the DevZone ;-)
12:42*planetmaker should be quicker
12:42<V453000>yeah :) I just havent found them formerly
12:44*Zuu hugs planetmaker. Beeing at the bottom of the developer list have some benefits :-)
12:44<frosch123>pm got some spam? :p
12:45<Zuu>I got my first email some days ago. Someone writing mostly in non-English asking for something.
12:45<@planetmaker>hehe, Zuu :-)
12:45<frosch123>yeah, i guess that guy wrote to all
12:45<frosch123>easy to tell, whenever i get something it goes to all
12:45<@planetmaker>that... 1.1.0-32bpp-ez stuff?
12:45-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
12:45-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
12:45<frosch123>no, copy&paste
12:46<Zuu>Mine was something else. AI or GS related.
12:46<frosch123>oh, so only i got crap again :/
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>hmm... i'm torn between "funny" and "boring" watching these political game waves after the newest airport failure...
12:47<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: maybe you should take the job opportunity
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>because i have such a record producing results on time :p
12:49<frosch123>if you become prominent you might also take over some other prost*
12:49<frosch123>she is also just became available again
12:49<frosch123>thought might be a bit old for you
12:49-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>pfft :p
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>those things i immediately skip over...
12:51-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-014-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
12:53-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
13:11-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
13:14-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0865c9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:15-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:16-!-M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
13:16*frosch123 just ate all christmas-leftover cookies :o
13:17<jasperthecat1>Hello, I'm really sorry for that highways spam.
13:18<frosch123>lol, i even remember you :)
13:19<jasperthecat1>Well, I'll talk about highways less.
13:19<jasperthecat1>And start talking about OpenTTD :D
13:20<jasperthecat1>I'm going on multiplayer. Anyone can join my server.
13:21<frosch123>i think noone in this channel plays the game
13:21<jasperthecat1>Oh.
13:22<jasperthecat1>You mean multiplayer, right?
13:24<@planetmaker>:D
13:24<@planetmaker>we play the meta-game ;-)
13:24<jasperthecat1>Wow, he's happy that i stopped spamming the forums.
13:26<jasperthecat1>I love the new features in the beta version.
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the "spammed with implicit orders" thing can be prevented if duplicates are not allowed between two explicit orders?
13:26<jasperthecat1>:P
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>or did we solve that already and it's just not in 1.2.x?
13:27<frosch123>several things were improved
13:27<frosch123>no idea when
13:27<jasperthecat1>Already solved the problem.
13:28<jasperthecat1>Nvm.
13:31-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:33<jasperthecat1>Bored... (Server is: Jasper's server)
13:38<Zuu>jasperthecat1: Enable AIs in multiplayer and throw some AIs in :-)
13:39-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19D2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:39<Zuu>If you add CluelessPlus then you'll play with an AI that I've written. If you throw in Admiral AI you get an AI from another OpenTTD dev.
13:39-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
13:39-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:39<jasperthecat1>What AI?
13:39<jasperthecat1>Oh.
13:40<jasperthecat1>Oh and I type really fast.
13:42-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit []
13:42<Zuu>Not that all other AIs are bad. Quite the contradiction. Many of the AIs are good but are mostly developed by different people with somewhat different ideas on how to solve things and how an AI should behaviour.
13:42-!-Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:42<Zuu>Jasperthecat1: Not that all other AIs are bad. Quite the contradiction. Many of the AIs are good but are mostly developed by different people with somewhat different ideas on how to solve things and how an AI should behaviour.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24893 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-01-07 18:45:27 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 38 changes by pdedinski
13:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 30 changes by elleryq
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 67 changes by valaky
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 38 changes by Phreeze
13:45<@DorpsGek>turkish - 18 changes by niw3
13:46<Jasperthecat1>I like to play with human players.
13:49<NGC3982>There we are.
13:51<Zuu>All AIs were created by humans thinking about good strategies and then wrote code that carried out those strategies instead of having to play the game.
13:52<Jasperthecat1>Ok, I'll add AIs to my server.
13:53<Pinkbeast>Try and avoid the ones that build 30000000 RVs
13:53-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
13:54<Jasperthecat1>You mean StreetTraffic?
13:56<Jasperthecat1>Which AI is the best?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: there are usually a few friction losses between the human's idea of the strategy and the code that resulted from it :p
13:57<Pinkbeast>No, I mean most AIs that build RVs.
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>Jasperthecat1: there are some "AI battles" which you can probably find in the forum
13:58<Jasperthecat1>I know...
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>then why ask?
13:58<Jasperthecat1>Oh.
13:59<Jasperthecat1>But I'd like to have people join my server and play.
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>most (sensible) AIs will probably outperform you in the first decades, but once you have a decent network, you reach them again
13:59-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:00<Jasperthecat1>Right.
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>and avoid having two of the same AIs in one game, they constantly block each other trying to build the same routes
14:00<V453000>why do you even tell him all the shit about AIs when he wants live people? :D
14:00<Jasperthecat1>Well, no one is joining me.
14:01<Zuu>While CluelessPlus build RVs it also monitor all stations for jams and reduce the fleet size if it is unable to resolve the jam by expanding the stations.
14:02<Zuu>One reason why RVs are popular among AIs are that there was a competition to make the best RV AI some years ago.
14:03<Zuu>Another is that you can make good profit with it without it being as complex as rail. Yet it is not as simple as aircraft. (althrough, writing a decent air AI that is able to function also in hilly terrain is non-trivial)
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: because if you tell people often enough they don't need anyone else to be happy, they start to believe it :p
14:03<Jasperthecat1>Yes, RV AIs are the best.
14:04<frosch123>V453000: people write ais because noone plays with them?
14:04<frosch123>sounds like a dominant strategy
14:04<V453000>frosch123: that cant be true :D
14:05<Jasperthecat1>:P
14:05-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:06-!-floffe [~daemon@c-cd9c70d5.029-70-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
14:07<Jasperthecat1>I'm going to check and see if my server is registered.
14:07<Zuu>Look at the servers page at www.openttd.org
14:07<Zuu>If it is there, then it it is registred
14:07-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:07-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
14:07<Jasperthecat1>It's there.
14:08<Jasperthecat1>I already forwarded my ports.
14:08<floffe>i'm on debian unstable with the suggested packages installed a la wiki, used svn to check out r24884, but compiling fails
14:08<@Alberth>got an error?
14:09<Kjetil>make error 1: PEBKAC :P
14:09<floffe>several times: cc fails with "no such file or directory"
14:09<floffe>Kjetil: yes definitely, it was a long time since i did this and not on debian (or derivatives) then
14:10<Zuu>Jasperthecat1: If you compare the client/server rate for 1.3 beta 1 and version 1.2.3, you'll notice that you'll statistically will get more players if you run a 1.3 beta server.
14:10<Jasperthecat1>I wonder why the AIs are not creating a new company yet.
14:10<floffe>perhaps i should just delete the dir and check out, and try again?
14:10<@Alberth>floffe: ./configure output sane?
14:10<Zuu>For 1.3 beta there is 19 clients on 10 servers. (almost 2 per server). For all servers the figure is close to one client per server.
14:10<Jasperthecat1>I did set the 'give or take' option...
14:10<Kjetil>floffe: maybe you should put the make log in a pastebin ?
14:10<floffe>Alberth: ./configure: 170: ./configure: generate_settings: not found
14:10<floffe>./configure: 171: ./configure: generate_grf: not found
14:10<Zuu>Jasperthecat1: Did you enable the advanced setting "allow AIs in multiplayer"?
14:10<frosch123>floffe: use paste.openttdcoop.org to post some more
14:11<floffe>are the only two issues i can find
14:11<Jasperthecat1>Aha, I disallowed AI's in multiplayer. That's the reason.
14:11<@Alberth>floffe: can you paste ./configure stuff at http://paste.openttdcoop.org/ ?
14:11<floffe>sure
14:12<Zuu>Jasperthecat1: If you want to force an AI to start directly, issue the command "start_ai" in the console.
14:12<floffe>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2041/
14:12<Zuu>You can specify the name of an AI or it will use the next slot in the configuration.
14:12<Jasperthecat1>@Zuu, I already know it.
14:13<@Alberth>nice :p
14:14<Jasperthecat1>Lol, WmDOT is not building bridges in both slanted roads.
14:15-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
14:15<floffe>Alberth: anything weird in there?
14:15<Wolf01>hello o/
14:16<@Alberth>no idea, it's the first time I see that line :) looking for where it finds those commands
14:16<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
14:16<@Alberth>hellow Wolf01
14:18-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:19<@Alberth>seems it comes from config.lib config.lib:generate_settings() {
14:19<frosch123>yeah, but the other commands also come from there
14:19<frosch123>e.g. generate_lang
14:19<floffe>Alberth: hmm, there's a Makefile.grf.in referenced in .configure that doesn't exist in the directory
14:20<@Alberth>imported at line 44
14:20-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:20-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:21<@Alberth>what shell do you use? "." may not work with your system?
14:21<Zuu>Jasperthecat1: If you found something that seems like a bug in wmDot, please report it to the form thread of wmDot with a screenshot or more clear explanation of what you think it should have done and what the script did instead.
14:22<@Alberth>$ROOT_DIR is the path to the directory with the ./configure
14:22<floffe>bash afaik (unless debian has something else by default?)
14:22<frosch123>dash used the be the default
14:22<floffe>dash seems right
14:22<@Alberth>echo $SHELL tells you
14:23<@Alberth>try bash ./configure?
14:23<floffe>$ ls -lh /bin/sh
14:23<floffe>lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Mar 1 2012 /bin/sh -> dash
14:23<floffe>floffe@norstaurar:~/devstuff/openttdcoop$ echo $SHELL
14:23<floffe>/bin/bash
14:23<@Alberth>right, and it has #!/bin/sh at the top
14:23<floffe>configure output looks the same
14:24<@Alberth>and /bin/bash is the real bash ?
14:25<@Alberth>I use zsh, but that is not a usual shell at Linux
14:25<Zuu>zsh is my usual shell in Linux :-p
14:25<floffe>cheanged that to yeah, /bin/bash ir genuine bash
14:26<Zuu>One of the first aliases I add to bash is: alias ..="cd .."
14:26<frosch123>same here :)
14:26<floffe>i tried changing the line at the top of configure to #!/bin/bash but no change
14:26<floffe>so the shell is not ths issue
14:26<Zuu>the second is probably: alias vi=vim; if that is not fixed at system level already.
14:27<Zuu>Ending up with vi when being too lazy to type the full name of vim is not very nice. :-)
14:28<frosch123>ending up with vim isn't any nicer
14:28<floffe>i'll try a clean checkout, on this one i tried compiling before all deps were installed properly
14:28<Zuu>frosch123: I dissagree :-p
14:28<floffe>configure output looks better now, those lines aren't there
14:29<Zuu>How can one not like vim? :-p
14:29-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
14:29<@Alberth>Zuu: some people haven't run into stupid limitations with their editor yet :p
14:33<floffe>looks like it's compiling now... le'ts see if it runs
14:34<@planetmaker>floffe... I faintly remember that nick. Have you played on #openttdcoop like ages ago?
14:35<floffe>planetmaker: yup, looked backed at the archives a few days ago, played for about a year back in 2007-08
14:36<Jasperthecat1>Any road vehicle servers available?
14:36<Jasperthecat1>Most of them are empty.
14:39<floffe>well, i got it up and running now
14:39<@Alberth>ok
14:40<@Alberth>not sure what went wrong there
14:40<floffe>messy failed first compile?
14:41<floffe>also i'm pretty sure i had a version from ca 2008 there before, but that shouldn't have made it fail?
14:41<@Alberth>perhaps, but compile shouldn't touch the configure code
14:45-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:46<@planetmaker>cool. Welcome back then, floffe :-)
14:46<Eddi|zuHause><Zuu> One of the first aliases I add to bash is: alias ..="cd .." <-- luckily suse adds some DOS-isms by default, so things like "cd.." and "md" work out of the box
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>it always annoys me when other linuxes don't do that
14:46<@planetmaker>Alberth, except when make triggers re-configure :-)
14:46<@planetmaker>like it did yesterday
14:47<@Alberth>hmm, could be a problem indeed
14:47<@peter1138>luckily debian is sensible and doesn't add any of those dodgy aliases
14:47<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: I tend to write "mkdir" on windows instead of using the shorter md command. :-p
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>one of the coolest aliases i encountered in suse: it maps "zast" to "yast" :)
14:49<Zuu>so that you can type yast on a qwertz keyboard with the same finger motion?
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>no, so when something fails before loading the right keyboard layout, and you mistype...
14:50<Zuu>eh ok :-)
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>so the reverse of your thought, basically :)
14:51<@Alberth>perhaps you should use (t)csh with spell correction :)
14:53<Zuu>I always have fun using US dvorak when installing stuff as you usually can only select between commonly used layouts in the setup menu.
14:53<Zuu>s/stuff/new OSes/
14:55-!-floffe [~daemon@c-cd9c70d5.029-70-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #openttd []
15:00-!-bolli [~Sam@31.185.228.217] has joined #openttd
15:03-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:16<andythenorth>so what kind of primary industry is a port?
15:16<andythenorth>extractive? organic? :P
15:16<@Belugas>a port? isn't it just a transit?
15:16-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-103.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
15:17<andythenorth>well...
15:17<andythenorth>this one produces
15:17<andythenorth>even if you deliver nothing
15:17<@Belugas>seagulls?
15:17<@Belugas>guano?
15:18<andythenorth>hrm
15:18<andythenorth>I actually have graphics now for a guano mine ;)
15:18<andythenorth>different industry though
15:18<bolli>hmm
15:18<bolli>Whats a typical cargo price_factor ?
15:19<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoDefaultProps
15:19<bolli>thanks :p
15:20*bolli tries to make head or tail of it
15:22<andythenorth>bolli: just put some numbers in and look at the curve in game
15:23<andythenorth>;)
15:23-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:23<andythenorth>the actual profit outcome of any cargo delivery is so dependent on things like map size, play style, running costs, newgrf vehicle design etc
15:24<bolli>Thanks andy :p
15:24<andythenorth>I wouldn't worry much about cargo payments ;)
15:24<andythenorth>in FIRS, it's the relative differences between cargos that matter
15:24<bolli>Is there any sort of rules on what can be put on bananas? :P
15:24<andythenorth>yes
15:24<frosch123>yeah, i guess you have no chance that V writes a detailed article about it
15:24<bolli>I'm trying to make some sort of drug-running type game...
15:25<andythenorth>dope wars!
15:25<bolli>Mostly through boredom...
15:25<andythenorth>do you want to (b) buy (s) sell (j) jet
15:25<bolli>So low amounts for lots of cash + armoured...
15:27<andythenorth>hmm
15:27<andythenorth>submarines might be useful
15:27<andythenorth>and stealth airplanes :P
15:27<andythenorth>need a new disaster
15:27<andythenorth>*if* we had a train robbery disaster, you could invert it to a drug enforcement raid
15:27<frosch123>yeah, invisible disasters might be easy to draw
15:27<andythenorth>but we don't :P
15:28<andythenorth>train robberies are probably not in scope?
15:28<andythenorth>:P
15:28<bolli>Well, code on then :p
15:28<bolli>*one
15:28*andythenorth has been playing games with pikka, and was reminded that the game could use a bit more lol
15:28<andythenorth>maybe balancing out the 'it must all be real' foamer and 'it must be insanely capable network' coop aspects
15:29<bolli>hmm
15:29<bolli>So do I make a port sprite that looks like a house and a not very large sprite for a submarine? :p
15:29<@Belugas>disaster: Closure of Lego Factory
15:30<andythenorth>erp
15:30<andythenorth>Belugas: got any Horizon Express yet?
15:30<andythenorth>http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74722
15:30<bolli>When I said "I" there, I actually meant "Somebody I find to counter my lack of drawing ability"
15:30*bolli goes to pester people
15:31-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:31<andythenorth>bolli: just lift some from FIRS or ogfx or swedish houses or such
15:33-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
15:33<drac_boy>hi
15:34<bolli>:p
15:34<bolli>Good plan andy
15:34<drac_boy>any of you recall of a website for industrial trains? I thought I had something hosted from uk domain but I can't find it now apparently
15:34<bolli>industrial trains?
15:34<bolli>freight? ;p
15:34<andythenorth>steel works and crap?
15:34<andythenorth>or narrow gauge ?
15:34<andythenorth>or?
15:35<drac_boy>andythenorth either
15:35<drac_boy>although 2ft gauge is ok too :)
15:35<V453000>frosch123: the likeliness that I start giving a single piece of fecal matter about profit is close to zero :P
15:35<@Belugas>andythenorth, not at all.. this set is a reap off
15:35<bolli>So you want info on TRains, locos, wagons or what? :p
15:35<andythenorth>http://www.irsociety.co.uk
15:36<andythenorth>Belugas: it's for collectors :P
15:36<@Belugas>you need two sets to have a decent one :S
15:36<andythenorth>"AFOLS"
15:36<andythenorth>or as we now call them "AHOLS"
15:36<frosch123>V453000: thought that :)
15:36<@Belugas>yeah well... i'm on playing...
15:36<@Belugas>no... we are...
15:36<bolli>http://wnxx.com/ ?
15:36<bolli>Thats a site I frequent, and has a lot of info on current trains :p
15:36<andythenorth>Belugas: I'm going to buy one, then I'm going to let my toddler crash it over and over again
15:37<andythenorth>I might post video for the AHOLS
15:37<andythenorth>they'll be sad :)
15:37<bolli>Anybody want to buy a class 20? :P http://www.wnxx.com/forsale/pictures/hnrc141212.htm
15:37<andythenorth>"oh my golly gosh you might break it"
15:37<@Belugas>hehehe
15:37<andythenorth>"Lego is for collecting, not crashing"
15:37<andythenorth>blearch
15:38<bolli>Another noobish question...
15:38<andythenorth>bolli: spend openttd donations on it?
15:38<bolli>How do I get rid of this error: "nmlc: "lang\english.lng", line 30: Using {P} without a ##plural pragma"
15:38<andythenorth>first we made a game
15:38<andythenorth>then we bought a train...
15:38<bolli>What a good use of the donation pot :)
15:38<@Belugas>my son had his share of models, for christmas. but he went into the Monster Fighters
15:39<andythenorth>:)
15:39<andythenorth>rent the train out for money to haul freight...
15:39<andythenorth>use the income to buy another train
15:39<andythenorth>after all this practice, we might actually make it work? o_O
15:39<DDR>heh
15:40<bolli>¬¬ a plan.
15:40<andythenorth>imagine, trains running around the EU with OpenTTD icon on the sides...
15:40<DDR>The number of companies I've driven to bankruptcy...
15:41<andythenorth>we'd get awesome PR
15:41<andythenorth>"Virtual Tycoons go Real"
15:41<NGC3982>Seriosly.
15:41<bolli>We hire cowboy drivers, like DCR do :)
15:41<NGC3982>I love this game
15:41<NGC3982>I'm still not tired of it
15:42<DDR>The OpenTTDCoop people wouldn't help us. "Breakdowns are on. Sorry, not interested, they mess everything up."
15:42<DDR>I can't find any good servers. :(
15:42<NGC3982>You can always play on mine
15:42<NGC3982>my*
15:42<andythenorth>define "good"
15:42<DDR>I want something with a bunch of mods, because I like mods. Mods are good.
15:42<NGC3982>Mods?
15:42<andythenorth>mods?
15:42<NGC3982>OpenTTD has mods?
15:42<DDR>Expansions.
15:43<DDR>I forget what they're called. :P
15:43<NGC3982>Oh
15:43<bolli>There are plenty of good servers around :P
15:43<NGC3982>NewGRF's
15:43<DDR>THE THING THAT ADDS MORE THINGS.
15:43<DDR>Yes, NewGRFs. Thanks. :P
15:43<kamnet>You don't want more things.
15:43*bolli removes DDRs caps lock key
15:43<drac_boy>andythenorth that website wasn't quite much help but the links did have some interesting things tho, thanks anyway
15:43<NGC3982>kamnet: Of course we want more things!
15:43<DDR>I like the industrial expansion packs. :)
15:43<kamnet>More things = more trouble.
15:43<DDR>I like the trouble.
15:43<NGC3982>DDR: I can set my server to your specifications.
15:43<NGC3982>DDR: What would you like to play?
15:44<bolli>Why not start your own server? :P
15:44<DDR>Hm, it's been a while now. Let me have a look...
15:44<DDR>My internet provider blocks those ports for me. I checked.
15:44*drac_boy still would like to know about these india steam locomotives
15:44<drac_boy>but thats better left for another day perhaps
15:45<NGC3982>I would suggest a FIRS+CHIPS+FISH+UKRS2+ 1832 temperate game.
15:45<andythenorth>FISH+CHIPS
15:45<NGC3982>Indeed.
15:45<andythenorth>FISH 2!
15:45<andythenorth>is a bit better
15:45<NGC3982>Wait what
15:45<@peter1138>why did i just build a lego wall?
15:45<NGC3982>There is a FISH2?
15:45<NGC3982>peter1138: :O
15:45<andythenorth>peter1138: you've gone insane?
15:45<NGC3982>LEGO is fantastic
15:45<NGC3982>I use it all the time
15:46<andythenorth>I use it to entertain people
15:46<@peter1138>i seem to have far less than i remember having
15:46<NGC3982>And it's ok since im a grown up
15:46<NGC3982>:P
15:46<andythenorth>peter1138: that problem is easily solved
15:46<DDR>peter1138: You need some of those electric motors.
15:46<andythenorth>using only the royal mail, I could, in one move, clear some of my loft and solve your problem
15:46<andythenorth>my loft is lego-encumbered
15:46<NGC3982>LEGO cannot be a problem
15:46<bolli>Your internet provider blocks those ports for you? :|
15:46<NGC3982>It's the most educational toy you could ever give a child.
15:47<DDR>No shit.
15:47<DDR>I *can't* host *any* server unless I pay another $30.00/month I don't have.
15:47<bolli>:|
15:47<NGC3982>What, are you american or something?
15:47<bolli>What provider?]
15:47-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:47<bolli>Thats a crazy rule...
15:48<DDR>Canadian. Telus. Yes.
15:48<NGC3982>ISP bandwith and port capping is the work of the baelzebub
15:48<bolli>Just learn to use telnet?
15:48<NGC3982>It's not even logical
15:48<NGC3982>Or usable
15:48<bolli>I agree...
15:48<DDR>No. No.
15:48-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
15:48<DDR>I envy europeans on a regular basis. :(
15:48<bolli>One of the offices we're in has a godawful ISP.
15:48<drac_boy>ddr try a more local isp and you'll have much less problem :-s
15:49<DDR>I've got four servers in my server closet. And I upload stuff forty times faster than you download.
15:49<bolli>Just incompetent at eeryhting
15:49<DDR>None exists, as far as I know.
15:49<bolli>Wanna bet DDR? :p
15:49<bolli>Gigabit line into our works server farm :)
15:49<NGC3982>DDR: I'm sorry, you are on a 4Gbit upload connection and you have port 3979 blocked?
15:49<NGC3982>That sounds very unlikely.
15:50<DDR>I may have guessed at the speeds.
15:50<NGC3982>:)
15:50<bolli>http://speedtest.net ? :p
15:50<NGC3982>Seriosly, having a local fibre connection with random ports like 3979 blocked sounds odd and stupid.
15:50<NGC3982>3G or something - sure!
15:50<NGC3982>But not that.
15:50<NGC3982>No, no *watery eyes*
15:51<DDR>http://www.speedtest.net/result/2420342558.png
15:52<andythenorth>untidy is loft http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3467/IMG_0823.JPG
15:52<andythenorth>also this things http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3470/IMG_0822.JPG
15:52-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:52<andythenorth>oops, big jpegs :P
15:52<NGC3982>andythenorth: I love you.
15:52<NGC3982>I want that so badly.
15:52-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-103.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
15:52<NGC3982>DDR: :(
15:52<andythenorth>all of that crap?
15:52<NGC3982>CRAP.
15:52<andythenorth>the 1 year old has a cheeky habit of eating it
15:53<NGC3982>oh.
15:53<andythenorth>mostly without harm so far
15:53<DDR>Oh, nice, trains. Those have always been in the 'several hundred dollar' range here.
15:53<NGC3982>I'm twenty six in a few days, and im still in love with that shit.
15:53<DDR>And thus firmly out of my price range.
15:53<NGC3982>DDR: Same for us Swedes. LEGO is by far the most expensive toys.
15:54<andythenorth>when you get your own kids it's ok
15:54<andythenorth>no expense must be spared on toys :P
15:54<DDR>NGC3982: A week ago, I built something based off RCX 1 tech that was suppose to take Deep Snow.
15:54<DDR>Version 1, 2, and 3 failed.
15:54<DDR>Version 4 also failed.
15:54<DDR>Then I gave up.
15:54<NGC3982>My parents still hold the giant 50-60kg stash of mixed LEGO from my youth.
15:54<NGC3982>DDR: A what that was supposed to be a what?
15:54<NGC3982>andythenorth: Hehe.
15:55<bolli>hmm
15:55<DDR>First thing, RCX: It's a programmable brick with sensors, centerpiece of the Mindstorms kit.
15:55<bolli>Can anybody help me to understand Lang file plursls? :p
15:55<NGC3982>Oh, i see.
15:55<DDR>Big thing is that it can drive a couple motors.
15:55<NGC3982>I'm to old for mindstorms, i guess.
15:55<DDR>Nah, mindstorms is where it's at. :)
15:55<bolli>"A plural or gender choice list {P} or {G} has to be followed by another string code or provide an offset"
15:55<bolli>Like wth that means^
15:55<NGC3982>DDR: But yeah, i know that. We used it in high school when trying to create Rubick solvers.
15:56<DDR>But get the python dev kit for it or something, because the thing it comes with is reeeeally shitty.
15:56<NGC3982>Oh, ok.
15:56<DDR>Not only is it a graphical language, it's a graphical language with a /mean/ framerate after two pages or so of code. :|
15:56<DDR>Anyway.
15:57<DDR>The next thing. Deep Snow, because I'm in Canada.
15:57<NGC3982>Ah
15:57<NGC3982>I think i get it.
15:57<NGC3982>Hey, i'm in Sweden and we have -no- snow.
15:57<NGC3982>:(
15:57<DDR>Unfortunately, the 8 AA batteries the mindstorms takes mean that it's too heavy, and whatever wheels I put on the thing just sink down into the snow.
15:58<DDR>NGC3982: btw, are there any players on your server?
15:58<NGC3982>DDR: ME! :)
15:58<drac_boy>ddr its four actually...and theres a reason one of the box for it came with wide tracks
15:59<DDR>I used those tracks.
15:59<DDR>Third and fourth editions, both.
15:59<@Belugas>DDR: http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/ToysGames/RemoteRadioControlVehicles/PRDOVR~0501281P/Radio+Control+Skidoo+Snowmobile.jsp?locale=en
15:59<@Belugas>it is indeed working very nicely
15:59<Zuu>bolli: Do you work with OpenTTD translations or script translations?
16:00<andythenorth>he's canadian
16:00<andythenorth>that explains it
16:00<andythenorth>:)
16:00<andythenorth>also...solve THIS ;) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3473/P5280222.JPG
16:00<bolli>neither, I'm trying to Make a cargo newGRF in NML :p
16:00<@Belugas>me too me too!
16:01<andythenorth>herp @ Belugas
16:01<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause concluded earlier that all canadians are weird
16:01<DDR>NGC3982: OK, the FIRS+CHIPS+FISH+UKRS2+ 1832 temperate game sounds good, but I was wondering if you had any reason for FIRS over ECS.
16:01<andythenorth>and eddi is usually correct
16:01<DDR>Eddi would be correct, yes.
16:01<NGC3982>DDR: ECS is impossible.
16:01<NGC3982>DDR: That's why.
16:01<drac_boy>nope andythenorth :P
16:01<NGC3982>:)
16:01*drac_boy thinks NGC3982 forgot about the thing called: read the vector table
16:02<NGC3982>Doesn't matter. It's hard as poop.
16:02<DDR>I distinctly remember winning it, until I build a huge maglev-engine-most-advanced #3 route.
16:02<drac_boy>NGC3982 because you didn't follow the lines thats why
16:02<DDR>That bankrupted me, and didn't make me any profit.
16:02<@Belugas>andythenorth, you did this one? that's a Technic or a pure creation?
16:02<drac_boy>ddr heh
16:02<NGC3982>drac_boy: Of course i didn't.
16:02<DDR>FIRS is good, then.
16:02<andythenorth>mostly Technic, but I got busy with a soldering iron to do the LEDs
16:02<NGC3982>DDR: You can try joining ttd.dndr.se
16:02<andythenorth>don't solder Lego btw
16:03<NGC3982>andythenorth: Eeh.
16:03<Supercheese>Melty melty
16:03<drac_boy>NGC3982 if you didn't follow the lines then you're not really in a position to complain ;)
16:03<@Belugas>indeed not
16:03<DDR>Can we drop the n from the name, there?
16:03<NGC3982>drac_boy: I'm not.
16:03<NGC3982>DDR: :D
16:04<Supercheese>Dance Dance Revolution?
16:04*NGC3982 needs to investigate why we ttd.dndr.se doesn't link up correctly.
16:04<DDR>DDR is not dance dance revolution. DDR is just my initials.
16:04<Supercheese>Well, it's both, and also related to RAM etc. ;)
16:05<NGC3982>drac_boy: "Impossible" was not really talking about ECS, but how good i am at playing it.
16:05<NGC3982>DDR: Does it work?
16:05<DDR>NGC3982: The closest I can get by name is ttdistas.es
16:05<andythenorth>canadians should know what this is http://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/4826895221/in/set-72157624454166047/
16:05<andythenorth>made in Calgarys
16:05<DDR>Got an ip address?
16:06<DDR>andythenorth: An umbrella?
16:06<andythenorth>well done
16:06<DDR>I've never seen the toy behind it.
16:07<NGC3982>DDR: ttd.dndr.se is the address you should connect to.
16:07<andythenorth>http://foremost.ca/products/vehicles
16:07<DDR>Sez server offline.
16:08<NGC3982>I see
16:08<NGC3982>Let me investigate.
16:08<DDR>ttd.dndr.se:3979 (IPv4)
16:08<NGC3982>Correct
16:09<NGC3982>Hold on, it's a local problem.
16:09*Supercheese adds Garbage Trucks to Eyecandy Road Vehicles
16:10<drac_boy>heh
16:10-!-Celestar_ [~vici@dslb-092-075-044-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
16:11<NGC3982>DDR: I apparently have a new IP address. Hold on, ill send you IP by PM
16:12<Supercheese>My code is so untidy :S
16:12<Supercheese>but it works
16:12<drac_boy>mm found an interesting locomotive .. the TU2
16:15<Supercheese>I have two models of garbage truck, a "classic" Dempster-esque model and a more "modern" model, the question is what year should the transition be
16:15<Supercheese>1960s? 70s? 80s?
16:16<Celestar_>hm...
16:16<drac_boy>supercheese it always varied, theres some cities still running rather old side-cangrab garbage trucks
16:16*Celestar_ is wondering whether to code a new DBSet for OpenTTD in 32bbp high-res
16:16<Supercheese>Indeed, which can be simulated by continually running older trucks into the later years
16:16<drac_boy>they're a bit amusing to watch ... arm folds down..grab can .. dumps can in ... drops can back down .. and fold up to then continue to next can
16:16<Supercheese>still, I must pick a year
16:17<andythenorth>1978
16:17<drac_boy>can't tell you sorry Celestar, I'm rather a 8bbp person :->
16:17<Celestar_>:D
16:17<frosch123>Celestar_: did you check cets?
16:20<@peter1138>good to see all the progress on 32bpp zoomed artwork now it's official
16:22<bolli>bah. Sodding nagios
16:22*bolli goes to fix whatever has broken
16:22-!-bolli [~Sam@31.185.228.217] has left #openttd []
16:25<Celestar_>frosch123: cetwhats?
16:25-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-014-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
16:26<Supercheese>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets
16:26<Supercheese>I believe
16:27<frosch123>eddi might be able to tell you more
16:28<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=993809#p993809 <- found a screenshot
16:32-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
16:33-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
16:34<drac_boy>btw any of you think doubledeck would still had been likely on metre/cape gauge, just probably limited in top speed in porpotional to track ballast condition?
16:34<andythenorth>very likely
16:34<drac_boy>thanks
16:36-!-Celestar_ [~vici@dslb-092-075-044-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:36<andythenorth>http://www.christopheharbour.com/blog/view/st.-kitts-scenic-railway
16:38<drac_boy>heh mm ok
16:38<drac_boy>probably could put that thing in as a 40-50kph train using nutrack narrow gauge tracks :)
16:41<NGC3982>We are playing a 1832 UKRS2+/FIRS game on ttd.dndr.se. Join if you want to.
16:41<Supercheese>Oh hmm
16:41<Supercheese>OTTD version?
16:44*andythenorth -> bed
16:44<Supercheese>Nevermind, don't have time right now anyway
16:44-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:45-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit []
16:48<@peter1138>frosch123, oh, it stumbled on licensing again
16:50<@planetmaker>hm?
16:51<frosch123>exactly
16:51<frosch123>hm?
16:53<NGC3982>Supercheese: The latest.
16:54<@planetmaker>cool. That can be r24893, 1.3.0-beta1 and 1.2.3. Thus it has a 2/3 chance to fail
16:54<@Terkhen>@get 4
16:54<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither
16:54<@Terkhen>:P
16:55<drac_boy>heh heh
16:55<drac_boy>I was wondering when someone would notice that too
16:55<@planetmaker>when? "und aus dem Keller ertönt das eintönige Geräusch der Bartwickelmaschine" :D
16:55<NGC3982>planetmaker: ;).
16:56<NGC3982>Supercheese: 1.2.3. :)
16:56<__ln__>NGC3982: how did you succeed with your german songs?
16:57<Supercheese>Oh poo, the new version of my grf doesn't like 1.2.3
16:57<NGC3982>__ln__: https://soundcloud.com/sibirish_musik/appe-robotnik-sex
16:57<Supercheese>Must have a fit trying to access nonexistant variables or some such
16:57<NGC3982>__ln__: No german, but some bad english.
17:00<Supercheese>Oh that wasn't it, apparently a road vehicle with no refittable cargoes just doesn't show up
17:00<@planetmaker>that's right
17:01<drac_boy>Supercheese do what I have tried, provide an empty priceless cargo id
17:01<@peter1138>or make it refittable to something
17:01<Supercheese>Well blarg, what else should a garbage truck refit to, currently only the FIRS cargoes of Scrap Metal and Recyclables make sense
17:01<Supercheese>and scrap metal barely
17:01<@planetmaker>Supercheese, you can "work around": provide a capacity and set it to 0 via CB36 (capacity callback)
17:02<Supercheese>Well, I want it to have a capacity if FIRS is loaded
17:02<@planetmaker>but why do you want it in other games?
17:02<@planetmaker>Supercheese, that's easy. Provide a capacity. Set the transported cargos to only those two cargos. No cargo classes
17:02<@planetmaker>and it will only become available when those two cargos are present
17:03<Supercheese>Well, the intention is mostly for eyecandy, the cargo is a secondary concern
17:03<Supercheese>I'll just throw in a switch based on current cargo
17:03<@planetmaker>nml: default_cargo_type : "SCPM"
17:03<Supercheese>or somethin
17:03<@planetmaker>cargo_capacity: 20 ton;
17:04<@planetmaker>refittable_cargo_classes: NO_CARGO_CLASS
17:04<Supercheese>I like the idea of setting capacity to zero if an FIRS cargo isn't found
17:04<@planetmaker>non_refittable_cargo_classes: ALL_CARGOS
17:04<@planetmaker>Supercheese, not needed. It won't show, if it can't transport anything
17:05<@planetmaker>but yes, if you still need it then...
17:05<Supercheese>But I'd LIKE it to always show
17:05<@planetmaker>then you need to "hack" :D
17:07<Supercheese>Oh, I just realized that since I used bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS); then Police Cars and Ambulances and the like can theoretically carry ECS Tourists
17:07<@planetmaker>:D
17:07<Supercheese>Poor sods on holiday, getting arrested or injured
17:07<Supercheese>;)
17:08<Zuu>So you get injured automagically if you go by an ambulance?
17:08<@planetmaker>re-animation, even if not needed, can crack ribs ;-)
17:08<Jasperthecat1>O_O
17:10*Supercheese wonders what other eyecandy vehicles would be neat
17:14<Jasperthecat1>I have an LED sign that is programmable.
17:15<Jasperthecat1>Nvm, that's off topic.
17:15-!-Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
17:16-!-Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:17<@Alberth>Supercheese: hot rods, drag racers, or the car holding the world speed record
17:17<Supercheese>There's already KITT and a Formula One car
17:17<Supercheese>isn't there a Bugati as well?
17:17<@Alberth>could be fun to use the latter as transport service :p
17:17<Rubidium>ugh... what could be causes of (timing) jitter in a MS DOS program when interrupts are disabled (asm: cli) on a Centrino laptop?
17:18<Supercheese>or Bugatti*
17:18<Supercheese>LRVS has it
17:19<Rubidium>or, in reverse: how can I code something that runs at constant intervals up to 50 kHz?
17:20<Supercheese>also has a UPS van apparently
17:20*Supercheese has not used LRVS
17:20<@Alberth>I am somewhat wondering how much interrupt control you get nowadays, would a DOS program get emulated in some way?
17:21*Supercheese ponders coding a DeLorean that disappears when it hits 88 mph
17:21<@Alberth>Rubidium: a real time linux kernel task?
17:22<Kjetil>Rubidium: speedstep ?
17:22<__ln__>emulated by what?
17:22<Rubidium>Kjetil: speedstep is disabled
17:22<Rubidium>Alberth: that still have the OS's overhead, and any hardware crap (which I think I'm looking at now)
17:22<@Alberth>__ln__: all the old DOS calls are still available?
17:23<@planetmaker>Rubidium, fpga :-)
17:23<Rubidium>__ln__: it's MS DOS 6.22
17:23<@planetmaker>you need dedicated aquisition hardware which runs faster than system ticks
17:23<__ln__>Alberth: i would assume DOS is still DOS
17:24<Kjetil>Rubidium: maybe you should use a timer interrupt
17:24<Rubidium>planetmaker: yeah... too bad the FPGA is already used to read/sample that data ;)
17:24<@planetmaker>2x fpga :D
17:24<Kjetil>just fit both in the fpga ? :P
17:24<@Alberth>2x laptop :p
17:25<Rubidium>Kjetil: we want to send pulses into the FPGA through the physical input/output
17:25-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:26<@Alberth>Rubidium: some simple processor card, eg a Raspberry PI ?
17:26<Rubidium>creating the pulses on the FPGA is useless, as we can just test that without running it in the FPGA
17:26<Rubidium>Alberth: got a small ARM board as well... same issue, even worse (under Linux)
17:26*__ln__ is not sure if RPi qualifies as simple processor card
17:26<@Alberth>hmm :(
17:27<Rubidium>planetmaker: too bad NI didn't want to loan 2 systems :(
17:27<Kjetil>If you want to do it under linux I guess you have to replace the kernel scheduler
17:28<Rubidium>point is, the "hardware" is doing something
17:28<Rubidium>can't figure out what it is though
17:28<@Alberth>Kjetil: theoretically, that's MSDOS
17:28<Wolf01>'night
17:28<Kjetil>Rubidium: are you doing any system calls ?
17:28-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:29<Rubidium>Kjetil: nope
17:29<@Alberth>sorry no ideas any more
17:29<Rubidium>just mov, jz, jmp, dec and outb
17:29<@Alberth>good night
17:29<Rubidium>night Alberth
17:29-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
17:30<Kjetil>I guess it could be bus related if your are doing outb to a hardware device
17:30<Rubidium>to the LPT
17:30-!-kamnet [4cb15ba8@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
17:30<Rubidium>0x378 to be precise
17:31<Kjetil>that's probably connected to "xbus" somewhere which might be superslow I guess
17:31<Rubidium>hmm... good point
17:31<Rubidium>stupid busses
17:31<Rubidium>they should take the train ;)
17:31<__ln__>yes, use the train
17:33<__ln__>this is pure speculation, but is the LPT nowadays perhaps somehow emulated on the chipset rather than being completely implemented in hardware like in good old days?
17:34<Kjetil>how much jitter are you experiencing ? Might it be instruction cache misses ?
17:34<Rubidium>planetmaker: and yes, getting a second FPGA is the idea... only shipping is more than half a month and we rather have something somewhat decent "soon-ish"
17:35<Rubidium>Kjetil: doubtful
17:36<Rubidium>the program loop is about 30 lines of assembler
17:36<Supercheese>Oh I wonder if I should ask for translations before I update this grf...
17:37<@planetmaker>hm, that sucks, Rubidium :S
17:38<@planetmaker>Supercheese, do both: release the grf. And ask for translations. Provide a small translation update in 4 weeks
17:38<Supercheese>Interesting idea
17:38<@planetmaker>nothing bad with having two versions which follow up eachother
17:38<Supercheese>:)
17:38<@planetmaker>works surprisingly well actually
17:39<Kjetil>still not sure why you would want to generate that kind of signal with a cpu
17:40<Rubidium>because it should emulate a tacho, including acceleration, and with a pulse generator that's not really working well
17:42<Rubidium>hmm... maybe a sound card could do the trick
17:43<Jasperthecat1>Supercheese, what are you working on at the moment?
17:52<Kjetil>can you just connect a fan with tach out ? :P
17:52-!-Jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
17:53<Rubidium>night
17:53<@planetmaker>night Rubidium
17:53<Kjetil>good night
17:54-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:54<jasperthecat1>I found out that Rondje is the best AI in OpenTTD.
17:55<@planetmaker>best, "best" or 'best'?
17:55<@planetmaker>or just "one"?
17:55<jasperthecat1>It's one of them.
18:00<Supercheese>Jasperthecat1: Eyecandy Road Vehicles http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56780#p972473
18:00<Supercheese>version 0.3
18:02-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:05-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19D2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:13*Zuu feel jumpy as he probably made his smallest fix - a change of a single character
18:14<__ln__>how many bits?
18:14<Zuu>I changed a 'X' to a 'i'.
18:14<Zuu>According to the spec, I can trade the 'i' for a 'd' too.
18:15<Supercheese>loop counter var?
18:15<__ln__>X to i is three bits, i think.
18:15<Zuu>No, seprintf format argument
18:17<@planetmaker>@commit 13481
18:17<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by smatz :: r13481 trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp (2008-06-11 21:37:36 UTC)
18:17<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: -Codechange: add 'B' keyboard shortcut to build aqueduct (planetmaker)
18:17<Zuu>The actual patch: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/fs-5419.patch
18:18<@planetmaker>hm, looks smaller than ^^ quoted patch ;-)
18:18<Zuu>(I used -U 15, to give full context, so the patch is quite long)
18:19<jasperthecat1>Supercheese, I already have that mod.
18:19<Zuu>planetmaker: Isn't your change a 'Change' or 'Feature'. At least not a 'Codechange'. ;-)
18:19<jasperthecat1>But I don't see 0.3.
18:19<Supercheese>Yes, you have version 0.2 ;)
18:19<Zuu>Maybe an 'Add'
18:20<Supercheese>I'm in the process of posting 0.3 as we speak (/type)
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: X to i changes 7 bits as far as i can see
18:20<jasperthecat1>What does it include?
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>X is 00111010
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>i is 01000101
18:20<@planetmaker>I guess so, Zuu.
18:20<jasperthecat1>I bet you added new vehicles?
18:20<Supercheese>Hang on a sec, I'm posting the changelog in a bit
18:20<@planetmaker>Sma4z' modesty :D
18:21<Supercheese>one last test
18:21<jasperthecat1>Okay.
18:21<jasperthecat1>Thanks.
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>(or i'm possibly reading this wrong)
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i'm completely wrong
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>X is 01011000
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>i is 01101001
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>so indeed it's 3 bits
18:23*jasperthecat1 waits until Supercheese uploads 0.3 on OpenTTD content menu.
18:23<__ln__>yes, that's the kind of ASCII my wikipedia knows too.
18:23<@planetmaker>wow. simpleAI and NoCAB don't do badly on a 64^2 map
18:23<Supercheese>aye, there'll be a changelog there too
18:24<jasperthecat1>Yep, just got the update.
18:24<jasperthecat1>Wait, nvm.
18:24<Supercheese>?
18:24<Supercheese>still workin' on it ;)
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: unless you're encoding in EBCDIC or something ;)
18:25<__ln__>yes, i was about to mention Zuu didn't say it's ascii.
18:25<@planetmaker>fun, fun. Just testing a grf. And they make a competition of it: http://imagebin.org/242051 :D
18:25-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []
18:25<Supercheese>Uploaded; not sure what the lag time is before it officially shows up in content download
18:26<Zuu>planetmaker: nice
18:27<Zuu>Usually it show up in-game rather quick. The download link on the site usually take longer. Though things might have changed as more and more things get mirrored.
18:27<jasperthecat1>Nice, you now have a garbage truck.
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: some biggui icons are missing?
18:28<@planetmaker>obviously
18:28<@planetmaker>but it's zbase
18:28<@planetmaker>and I should revert it to normal size. I don't dare though
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and wwhy are the rails not the same colour? :)
18:28<@planetmaker>ask Zephyris :-)
18:29<@planetmaker>different angle of incident
18:29<@planetmaker>Supercheese, what do I search for?
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>and why does the guy in the icon look so much like Bernhard? :) http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/uploads/avatars/avatar_27.gif?dateline=1340476421
18:30<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56780 or Bananas for "Eyecandy" should do it
18:30<@planetmaker>ty
18:30<Supercheese>for translation see the thread ther
18:30<Supercheese>there*
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: maybe these are horribly oversized?
18:30<Supercheese>?
18:31-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
18:31-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: the vehicles in the first post you showed
18:31<Supercheese>Err... no?
18:33<Supercheese>Garbage truck is same size as baseset trucks, ±1 px
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the baseset trucks are horribly oversized? :p
18:34<jasperthecat1>Did I lose connection?
18:34<Supercheese>OTTD "scale" -- isn't ;)
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>jasperthecat1: where have you seen it last?
18:35<jasperthecat1>The chat reconnected...
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>jasperthecat1: no, must have been something on your end, because here you just quit normally
18:36<@planetmaker>woah, Supercheese, I just noticed the sea gulls. Fantastic
18:36<jasperthecat1>Oh, I guess I accidentally pressed a button.
18:36<Supercheese>Inspired by existing sprites, I didn't draw them from scratch
18:36<Supercheese>would that I could
18:38<Supercheese>The large ones still have clipping issues, unfortuantely
18:38<Supercheese>unfortunately*
18:38<jasperthecat1>Anyone have time to play multiplayer with me?
18:41<jasperthecat1>I'll use basecost mods, to make it more challenging.
18:41<@Terkhen>good night
18:43<Supercheese>http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/8135540-unique-airship-designed-for-massive-cargo-is-almost-ready-for-first-test-flight/
18:43<Supercheese>Looks like a prototype of Av8's "Skylift 150" :P
18:44<jasperthecat1>Woah...
18:44<jasperthecat1>It's huge...
18:44<Supercheese>"Final model will carry 500t of cargo"
18:44<Supercheese>Yikes O_o
18:44<Supercheese>maybe they mean "500t of fuel+cargo"
18:45*Supercheese leaves to walk the dog
18:48-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5550.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:09-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
19:12-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:14-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:15<drac_boy>looks like theres little if any english information for indian steam after all >_< oh well I've been working off the russia and german narrow gauge roosters anyway
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>i would imagine india mostly imported british engines
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: are you trying to rival the 2ccset for number of included engines? :p
19:34<V453000>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/asser.png :(
19:39<drac_boy>heh V453000 why windows? :P
19:39<V453000>because adobe
19:39<V453000>windows because windows, but assertion error is evul :(
19:40<drac_boy>eddi nope, just more or less averaging different specs (believe it or not but I found some of the RhB and SAR electrics to be similar enough to only need one loco for both)
19:41<drac_boy>british engine for metre gauge, that rather sounds interesting
19:46<V453000>assertion error - prepare word should have something to do with strings?
19:47<V453000>cause I feel like the only thing I actually changed is switch which changes sprites
19:47<V453000>:d
19:49-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-50-91.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
19:49<V453000>ok
19:49<V453000>I found it :D
19:49<V453000>if random switch returns 80000 for power, it throws that error
19:49-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0865c9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur]
19:50<drac_boy>heh
19:52-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: "word" is a 16-bit value, nothing to do with strings
19:57<V453000>hm :)
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you should prepare a code example triggering this, and send it in as a bug reports, because users shouldn't be able to trigger asserts
19:59<V453000>I already did :)
20:10<Pikka>V453000, the maximum value you can return in a callback is 32767
20:10<V453000>I know
20:10<V453000>I just did a typo of 80000 instead of 8000
20:10<Pikka>I see :)
20:10<V453000>but it shouldnt make nmlc internal error :)
20:11<Pikka>silly nmlc
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>http://thedroidyourelookingfor.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dexterdrinkinggame2.jpg
20:13<Pikka>silly Eddi
20:13<V453000>:d
20:14<drac_boy>heh heh
20:16<V453000>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WreJGBEF5iA who played this? :D
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't ring a bell
20:17<V453000>what? :D
20:17<V453000>:(
20:18<V453000>a logic adventure game with various puzzles made all in plastic world
20:18<V453000>Neverhood
20:18<V453000>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIsgRgmT9MA :)
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>must be from a time where i didn't have any new games (because of old computer)
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>technically my computer was already too slow for TT
20:20<V453000>it is all recorded animation of the plastic stuff, idk what that required :D
20:21<V453000>either way, amazing game I even played it about a year ago
20:21<V453000>1996
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>must be of the monkey island 3 era, where adventures got more and more comic-y
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>i guess that started with Day of the Tentacle
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>which was basically the last adventure i played
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>the last "new" one
20:28<V453000>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qxeP29fhdA represents the game :D
20:28<V453000>just amazing
20:35<NGC3982>I always loved Neverhood.
20:44<drac_boy>eddi btw did you know even russia exported their locomotives as well? :)
20:55-!-M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>why wouldn't they?
21:00<Flygon>Because they have an insane massive loading and axle gauge
21:00<Flygon>One of the only countries to come to mind to 1-up the USA
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>they could build smaller engines, you know
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>russian-built diesel engines run in half of europe today
21:07<Flygon>Russia has a concept of small?
21:07<Flygon>Even then, standard European loading and axle gauges tend to be massive in UK and Victoria :P
21:08<Flygon>http://www.noarail.com/members2/d/2373-2/H+220+Heavy+Harry.JPG Biggst non-articulated loco in Australia. And you get European and Russian ones that average that size :B
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, they're still "big" as in the biggest diesel engines of that time, but small enough to fit in the usual european loading gauge and axle weight classes :p
21:18-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:20<Flygon>Eddi, I dunno about you
21:20<Flygon>But here, 27-30 tonnes an axle isn't usual :P
21:20<Flygon>Best you ever got here is 23 tonnes... and that's the one-off locomotive I just posted
21:20<Flygon>Usually it's 17 tonnes :P
21:24<drac_boy>eddi this is just a quick example but its a TU7 http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/40894162.jpg
21:24<drac_boy>not that heavy in first place
21:24<drac_boy>(yeah don't ask me why, I'm not sure what the photographer is doing with that dog there!)
21:26<drac_boy>flygon I think this matches your picture http://ainoko.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/niagara_edwhittekind.jpg heh heh
21:27<drac_boy>if you're asking where the smokestack is .. its a very short cap just behind the low-profile box on front .. almost pushing the tunnel gauges there what with the big boiler they wanted
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: it's not about how heavy the engine is, but how many axles you put underneath it :p
21:28<drac_boy>eddi mm thats why the general purpose diesel of japan was the DD15 .. it could weight over four axles for maximum workings or over six axles (the middle two being idlers) for light branch duty
21:29<drac_boy>which of I have pretty much shown flygon this one but what do you think of how ready it is to clear snow anywhere anytime? heh http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/JNR_DD15_37.JPG
21:29<drac_boy>even has extra lights for visibility :P
21:35<drac_boy>eddi if you want to talk about axles...try THIS then heh heh http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/PRR_BH50_x2.jpg (footnote: they were built with fewer crossmounted engines than originally designed on blueprint for tho)
21:36-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-014-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
21:42-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
22:04-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
22:05-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-103.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
22:22-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-50-91.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:53-!-Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd
22:59-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
23:00-!-Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06<Flygon>When dracco is on
23:06<Flygon>Remind me to bring up the H-class
23:18-!-soqdzfkzc [~soqdzfkzc@120.56.221.187] has joined #openttd
23:20-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.95.246] has joined #openttd
23:21-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
23:26-!-soqdzfkzc [~soqdzfkzc@120.56.221.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:27-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:47-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
23:49-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
23:49-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
23:55-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]]
---Logclosed Tue Jan 08 00:00:52 2013