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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-08

---Logopened Tue Jan 08 00:00:52 2013
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00:49<Supercheese>Jeez, this .nml file is bloating, it's too bad the preprocessor hates me
00:49<Supercheese>I want to separate and #include, but that somehow screws up the .grf -_-
00:50<Supercheese>Think the preprocessor hates block comments or something
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01:50<kamnet>Good morning. I'm setting up a CNet account to manage OpenTTD release information. They require that programs which can be installed on multiple OSes be listed separately. Would it be preferred to list each one as "OpenTTD x.x.x for <platform>", or just "OpenTTD x.x.x" ?
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01:59<@peter1138>the latter
02:00<@peter1138>not that i see the point
02:00<@peter1138>in fact i'd rather you didn't
02:00<kamnet>Didn't what?
02:00<@peter1138>it would suck if people search for openttd and came up with cnet
02:01<kamnet>They already can.
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02:02<@peter1138>Price: Free
02:02<@peter1138>yeah
02:02<kamnet>If you search for "OpenTTD" on Google, there are several stores & distribution sites that already list the game
02:03<@peter1138>if you search for openttd on google, we're first. you can download directly from there
02:03<@peter1138>so why bother with cnet etc etc
02:04<@peter1138>cnet is that place that pops up when you're trying to find the real website
02:04<kamnet>Because those are large communities of users who may not know of the game.
02:05<@peter1138>people using cnet downloads are in a community?
02:05<kamnet>Of course they are.
02:05<Supercheese>Can't you set it up so that the page on cnet points to the OTTD webpage?
02:05<Supercheese>"Go to external site for download" etc
02:05<kamnet>It does, Supercheese.
02:06<kamnet>You can either pay CNet to host the file for you, or you can link to your own download location.
02:06<Supercheese>currently it downloads from cnet
02:07<kamnet>CNet acts as a middle man. The file can be downloaded from your server, they route it through the download manager on their site for tracking information and to scan your files for viruses and malware.
02:08<Supercheese>Interesting
02:08<@peter1138>whatever it is, it's a crock of shit
02:08<@peter1138>just linking to the download without anything like, say, license information
02:10<kamnet>We can include that information.
02:11<Supercheese>Who's currently responsible for the OpenTTD cnet entries?
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02:11<kamnet>Good question, and I could not find an answer for that. I don't like that answer, because it puts the control of information outside of the hands of the developers.
02:12<Supercheese>indeed
02:13<kamnet>That's why I volunteered to take up this task of editing the information on these various sites. At the very least, the developers and members of the OpenTTD community know who *I* am, and have a way to contact somebody if information needs to be changed or updated.
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03:01<Supercheese>Hmm, some users that post regularly on the forums are not IRC regulars, it seems
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03:25<@Celestar>morning
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03:28<Flygon>Menta
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03:33<@planetmaker>moin
03:34<@Celestar>whoop
03:34<blathijs>Morning!
03:35<@Celestar>wooot?
03:37<@Celestar>blathijs: how ya been?
03:38<blathijs>Celestar: Busy :-)
03:38<blathijs>Actually did some OpenTTD coding again last week :-D
03:38<dihedral>good morning
03:38<blathijs>Trying to polish support for (ancient) 8bpp systems again :-)
03:40<blathijs>Got a bugreport from some SPARC system displaying wrong colors. In the end, I don't think I actually managed to reproduce the reported problem, but I was so deep into SDL/X11 palette stuff that I could just as well do something useful with that new knowledge ;-p
03:44-!-Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:45<__ln__>a career as an X11 palette consultant
03:48-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
03:55<@Celestar>blathijs: :D
03:56<blathijs>__ln__: Heh, I do think that the hours spent investigating this stuff, weren't the best spent hours ever...
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04:07<Supercheese>'night
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04:16<@peter1138>yeah, 8bpp displays are kinda rare now
04:26<blathijs>peter1138: I actually had to switch back to using the vesa driver on my laptop for testing, the intel driver didn't work in 8bpp anymore (probably been years since someone actually tested that ;-p)
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04:29<@peter1138>:-)
04:29<@Celestar>who needs 3bpp
04:29<@Celestar>erm
04:29<@Celestar>8
04:29<blathijs>Yeah, 8-color displays!
04:29<@Celestar>hm... no alpha channel in 32bpp?
04:30<@peter1138>back in my day we had 1, 2 and 4bpp
04:30<blathijs>Celestar: This Sparc Ultra1 here behind me needs 8bp :-)
04:30<@Celestar>:P
04:30<@Celestar>does it still WORK?
04:30<blathijs>Celestar: I think 32bpp is really 24bpp plus alpha
04:30<@Celestar>normally it is
04:30<@Celestar>:P
04:30<@Celestar>128bpp :P
04:30<@Celestar>with all channels as 32 bit floats
04:30<blathijs>Celestar: I had to replace the RTC chip, whose battery had depleted, but other than that it still works (slowly)
04:31<Flygon>Real men use sprites that use NTSC colourspace palette's
04:31<Flygon>Because that totally worked for the NES
04:31<Flygon>Who needs yellow? :B
04:31<@peter1138>PAL, dearest
04:31<@Celestar>NTSC has colors?
04:31<@peter1138>Never Twice the Same Colour
04:31<@Celestar>yeah.
04:31<@Celestar>worst TV standard EVER.
04:32<blathijs>We should add a Hercules graphics driver in OpenTTD! :-)
04:32<@Celestar>well DVB-T sucks some donkey balls too
04:32<Flygon>The NES's that had RGB PPU's are the best :3
04:33<valhallasw>Celestar: also the first color standard, so it would have been pretty stupid if PAL and SECAM had sucked as much
04:33<valhallasw>(first of the three, at least)
04:33<@peter1138>DVB's overly compressed :(
04:34<Flygon>Over-the-air TV is a farce
04:34<@Celestar>it's not compressed. it's ... damaged beyond repair.
04:34<Flygon>Fiber Optic television plzkthx
04:34<@peter1138>analogue tv never looked as based
04:34<@peter1138>er
04:34<@peter1138>as bad
04:34<@Celestar>as DVB-T? no. -C and -S are pretty ok
04:34<Flygon>Good analogue TV can look better than DVB, I agree
04:34<@Celestar>-S2 rocks.
04:34<@peter1138>most people got good enough signals not to have bad noise
04:34<Flygon>Colourspace issues are always an issue, though
04:35<Flygon>Heck, I've had peeps think I'm on digital TV
04:35<Flygon>When my CRT's tuned to analogue
04:35<Flygon>Digital looks WORSE
04:35<Flygon>Due to the tuner processing the heck out of the video for 576i Composhit >_>
04:36<Flygon>I'd have used S-Video... but the tuner lacks it @_@
04:36<@peter1138>i just get snow when it's on analogue
04:36<Flygon>And I need to get my CRT modified for SCART/Component...
04:36<@peter1138>as there's no analogue tv transmission over here any more
04:36<Flygon>Australia has analogue still. USA doesn't
04:36<Flygon>It cuts off by 2013 ending
04:36<@Celestar>get a proper DVB-S2 and be happy :P
04:37<Flygon>I'm unhappy because it's Composite
04:37<Flygon>Not because of the signal
04:37<@peter1138>i refuse to pay for a satellite subscription
04:37<Flygon>Screw satellite
04:37<@Celestar>you don't have to pay :P
04:37<Flygon>Move to Australia around 2016
04:37<Flygon>Get Fiber Optic TV :D
04:38<@Celestar>screw TV really. Just use TCP/IP :P
04:38<Flygon>That's basically Fiber Optic TV :P
04:38<blathijs>Fiber Optic TV <-- Do they put a big beamer at one end of the fiber and you point the other end at your wall?
04:38<Flygon>blathijs: It's a pointlessly marketing style word for Cable TV
04:39<blathijs>Flygon: In the sense that they put up fiber up to the cable head end and then use regular coaxial cable with DVB-C for the last part?
04:39*Flygon shrug
04:39<Flygon>I don't know
04:40<blathijs>In .nl we actually have TV over fibre, where there's just some TCP/IP thing running over a fiber to the home connection
04:40<Flygon>I was lead to believe that ISP's here would bundle it with the NBN plans as an incentive over other ISP's
04:40<Flygon>And you use a tuner hooked up via ethernet or Wi-Fi to the router
04:41<Flygon>Since 20-40mbits via Wireless should be enough for a decent multimedia stream
04:41<blathijs>Flygon: Yeah, that's what they do here
04:41<Flygon>Go figure :)
04:42<Flygon>I can't wait til it comes out here
04:42<blathijs>Flygon: Though only on one of the big fibre networks, the other uses a DVB-C encoder in the router/modem so you can still connect your TV without a separate tuner
04:42<Flygon>All I can get currently is ADSL2+, or 100/2 Coax Cable with Cable TV
04:42<Flygon>The latter is outragiously expensive
04:43<Flygon>Ah, so it hooks up to the TV's antenna jack?
04:43<blathijs>Flygon: Yup
04:43<Flygon>That is a worthless load of crap to me :P
04:43<Flygon>My TV lacks a digital tuner, haha-
04:43<Flygon>Oh
04:43<Flygon>I am a dimwit. I can use an external tuner.
04:44<blathijs>Flygon: It removes the need for a separate tuner if you have a digitial tuner in the TV, and it allows re-using existing coaxial cabling
04:44<Flygon>My grave will say "Died being shortsighted"
04:44<Flygon>Clearly not many Europeans still use CRT's
04:44<Flygon>Then again, not many Australians use CRT's...
04:45<@peter1138>can't get rid of my crt monitor
04:45<Flygon>Eh, it just seems like common sense to use an external tuner, that hooks up via ethernet or Wi-Fi
04:45<Flygon>peter1138, I should photograph my room
04:45<Flygon>It's the size of a small study, has 4 CRT's, and I gotta sleep in it :P
04:46<Flygon>An LG Studioworks 900B monitor, a Trinitron 200GS, Phillips 107S66, and some sort of 32in Trinitron TV
04:46<Flygon>The TV takes up at least 20% of my room from wall to wall
04:46<Flygon>Well, 10-15%, anyway
04:47<Pinkbeast>... get rid of one of them?
04:47<Flygon>Hell no
04:47<Flygon>They're all good
04:48<@peter1138>Flygon, are you a bit of a hoarder?
04:50<Flygon>Yes
04:50<Flygon>Though, I've chucked out or given away things I know I will not have a use for
04:51<Flygon>eg. if I got a bigger CRT (and... a bigger bedroom >_>)
04:51<Flygon>I'd give away my 32in Trinitron to someone else that could use it
04:51<Flygon>I despise scrapping perfectly useful items
04:56<Pinkbeast>So do I, but the trouble is, there's an enormous influx of new monitors from people buying them. I'd give away my old 19" low-footprint tube, but who wants it?
04:57<Flygon>Well
04:57<Flygon>If you were Victorian
04:57<Flygon>I'd ask for us to meet and I'd inspect it
04:57<Flygon>I'd be interested in it
04:57<Flygon>19in high quality CRT monitors are reasonably useful/valuable
04:57<Pinkbeast>Victoria died in 1906 so I'd be getting on a bit if I was. # yes I know what you mean
04:57<Flygon>What specific model is it?
04:57<Flygon>...
04:57<Flygon>Pinkbeast...
04:57<Flygon>Oh
04:58<Flygon>Rightyo
04:58<Pinkbeast>Dunno, not at home, but it's an iyama
04:58<Flygon>Never heard of it
04:58<Flygon>My friend is offline
04:58<@peter1138>iiyama
04:58<Flygon>So, can't ask him about it
04:58<Flygon>Drat, you're Britis
04:58<@peter1138>were considered one of the best in the 90s
04:58<Flygon>If you were Canadian, I'd have tried to arrange something
04:58<Flygon>Ah, I see
04:58<Flygon>Either way, I can't buy it :(
04:59<Pinkbeast>I compromise by filling my own computers mostly with castoff bits.
04:59<Flygon>I just make stuff out of whatever
05:00<Flygon>So much so that I actually have a spare usable computer... except it's running on a K6-2
05:00<Pinkbeast>Spare? Ha. usagi I use every day, and she's a K6-3/450
05:00<Flygon>So I'll probably just turn it into a 9x based retro-game machine
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05:47<@peter1138>hm
06:53<@peter1138>http://play-dune.com/ o_O
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>that was about what i expected... :p
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06:56<@peter1138>same person yeah
06:59<@peter1138>"Earth-sized planets 'number 17bn'"
06:59<@peter1138>oh really
06:59<@peter1138>ah it's clarified as 'in our galaxy' outside of the headline
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07:40<@Celestar>lol
07:40<@Celestar>what else did you expect? :P
08:00<@peter1138>accurate reporting!
08:01<@Celestar>lol
08:01<@Celestar>Media? accurate reporting?
08:01<@peter1138>:)
08:01<@Celestar>you ill? :P
08:01<@Celestar>hm .. any gui frontend to openttd svn?
08:02<@peter1138>there's trac, on vcs.opentd.org/svn/
08:02<+michi_cc>Web or local?
08:02<@peter1138>but that's horrible
08:02<+michi_cc>Alternatively you can also have gitweb (http://vcs.openttd.org/git/?p=openttd/trunk.git;a=summary) or hgweb (http://vcs.openttd.org/hg/openttd/trunk.hg/)
08:03<@Celestar>web.
08:03-!-LordPixaII is now known as Pixa
08:03<@Celestar>unless I install a git client for me phone :P
08:05<@Celestar>hm.
08:05<@Celestar>can you convert implicit orders into real ones?
08:05<+michi_cc>You can't, but it's definitely a valid feature request.
08:06<@Celestar>well maybe there is me entry point :P
08:07<@peter1138>i asked about that the other day too
08:07<@peter1138>shouldn't be too hard
08:08<@Celestar>nah
08:08<@Celestar>don't think so
08:13<@peter1138>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/
08:13<@peter1138>^ aww
08:15<@Celestar>haha
08:16<@peter1138>oh wow
08:16<@Celestar>cd > cargodest
08:16<@peter1138>the old svn custombridgeheads branch still exists in git
08:16<@peter1138>yacd or cargodist?
08:16<@Celestar>whatever fons is working on :P
08:16<@peter1138>cos there's yacd too
08:16<@Celestar>I am not sure the old CBH works with the current map array in any way :P
08:17<@peter1138>don't think much has changed in that regard since then
08:17<@peter1138>but... it didn't work then either :p
08:17<@Celestar>no, not while reversing :(
08:17<@Celestar>lot of the other stuff worked somehow :p
08:18<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/bridgehead3.png
08:18<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/bridgehead4.png
08:18<@peter1138>from my old ancient original stuff
08:18<@Celestar>hm.
08:18<@Celestar>the list of feature requests is LONG.
08:18<@Celestar>friggen long
08:19<@peter1138>which is pre-tron-bridges
08:19<@Celestar>I was wondering whether to write unittests for the GTTS functions before the next attempt of CBH :P
08:20<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: is there a list of engines for the CETS?
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08:26<@Celestar>peter1138: cargodist and yacd? who is working on yacd?
08:26<@peter1138>michi_cc
08:28<+michi_cc>Celestar: Don't wonder too long, a lot might change in the future: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/cool_stuff2.png
08:28<NGC3982>Afternoon
08:28<@Celestar>michi_cc: hm?
08:30<@peter1138>monorail & normal rail on the same tile
08:30<@peter1138>subtle
08:31<+michi_cc>And some more if you carefully watch the snow.
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08:33<V453000>peter1138: universal rail ftw? :p
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>weren't we already at this point half a year ago?
08:33<@Celestar>peter1138: yeah I see that but does that have to do with me? :P
08:34<@peter1138>?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: yes, at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkXAVZqXTFQxdHM3UlpWM1hPZWpfeTlkdnZsMldjSkE&hl=de#gid=0
08:34<@Celestar>thank you
08:34<@peter1138>google docs :S
08:35<@Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: you have an error in your data :P
08:35<@Celestar>DB BR 403 :P
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>i certainly do ;)
08:35<@Celestar>Top Speed should be 330km/h
08:35<@Celestar>:P
08:36<@peter1138>which 403?
08:36<@Celestar>lines 564, 565, 566
08:36<@peter1138>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB-Baureihe_403_(1973)
08:36<@peter1138>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB-Baureihe_403_(1997)
08:36<@Celestar>the 1997 one :P
08:37<@peter1138>i can't open the document so i couldn't tell :p
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>not sure who put that number in there, i currently don't have the time to review it
08:38<@Celestar>:)
08:38<@Celestar>just noticed :P
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>oberhümer did a lot of screwing with it, and it's hard to review entire-table-changes
08:39<@Celestar>well.
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>line-based diffs don't handle 2-dimensional tables very well
08:39<@Celestar>yeah
08:39<@Celestar>bah
08:39<@Celestar>finally
08:40<@Celestar>Celestar 1, Jenkins 0
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>things like "take the non-german stuff out temporarily" [and re-order the table at the same time]
08:40<@peter1138>urgh
08:45<@peter1138>6music playing the new bowie track a lot :p
08:46<NGC3982>Bowie has made new music?
08:46<Kjetil>didn't he just publish some old stuff ?
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08:58<MNIM>huh
08:58<MNIM>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiHa_283_series
08:58<MNIM>interesting design for a 130kmh train.
08:59<@Celestar>goddamnit why is Jenkins that stupid
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09:05<@Celestar>oopw
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09:06<blathijs>oopw?
09:06<@Celestar>typo in oops :P
09:06<blathijs>oops :-)
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>so what the hell drove me in selecting recursion theory and fractals as exam topic? :p
09:11<blathijs>Recursion is awesome :-)
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>"Theorem of Rice: No non-trivial property of partial-recursive functions is decidable"
09:13<kamnet>Good morning
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>this script is horrible... it uses random function names like K and Gamma and then defines them two pages later...
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09:26<Kjetil>Sounds like mathematical functions
09:26<Stimrol>hello, I see in docs that OpenTTD uses UTF-8 buy why do I only see question marks if for example another players write in russian?
09:26<Stimrol>but*
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>Stimrol: your font doesn't contain the characters
09:29-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-12-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>(e.g. the default sprite font)
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09:31<Stimrol>my font settings in the openttd.cfg are all empty
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>Stimrol: openttd only uses a system font as fallback if your language contains missing characters itself. things that happen ingame (like signs or chat) do not trigger that fallback
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>Stimrol: you can manually enter font names in the .cfg to use system fonts
09:32<Stimrol>is it thahoma witch is the recommended one?
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>there is no "recommended" one as whatever we could recommend, won't be there on some systems
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>tahoma bold possibly
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>small font sizes may be problematic
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09:33<Stimrol>is it the mono_font setting or all of them I should change
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>normal font, if you worry about signs and chat
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>mono font is used for readme etc.
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>large font is for newspapers
09:34<Stimrol>thanks
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>small font is for tiny numbers or when you zoom out
09:35<Stimrol>normal is probably the medium font settings
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09:38<kamnet>Downloading a Russian NewGRF font would help? http://forums.ttdrussia.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2702
09:40<Stimrol>Just figured this out recently, but I have my server connected to irc so I can read it there and ask mister google for some help
09:40<Stimrol>as in google translate
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>"Theorem: there are simple sets"
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>DUH!
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>"A subset |N is simple, if A is recursively enumerable and |N\A is immune"
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>"A is immune if A is infinite, but no infinite subset of A is recursively enumerable"
10:19<@peter1138>russian newgrf font :S
10:20<@peter1138>i hope that's not pre-utf8
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10:37<@Celestar>hm.
10:37<@Celestar>no font adjustment GUI?
10:37<@Celestar>:P
10:39-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
10:39<@Celestar>Jesus H. Christ
10:39<@peter1138>what?
10:40<@Celestar>jCxGender.requestFocus(); // will not work
10:40<@Celestar>... what's the point of the line then?
10:44<dihedral>Celestar, o/
10:44<@Celestar>dihedral: :)
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>anyone remembers that comment "doesn't work" which was commented by "WHAT doesn't work?" in the openttd code? :p
10:46<@Celestar>and why exactly do I have this in the code?
10:46<@Celestar>Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit().beep();
10:46<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yes :-)
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: reminds me of the times where you could print the beep character and the printer beeped :)
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>"We take the function Phi which we defined in section 3" -- no we didn't define it in section 3, we just said there exists a function...
10:52<@peter1138>Date: Wed Jun 1 17:45:09 2011 +0000
10:52<@peter1138>hmm, my git checkout is a bit old
10:55<@Celestar>lmao
10:55<@Celestar>..
10:55<@Celestar>try { idx_2 += 1;
10:55<@Celestar>} catch
10:55<@Celestar>what could POSSIBLY throw an exception here?
10:55<Pinkbeast>integer overflow?
10:55<@Celestar>that doesn't throw ..
10:56<Pinkbeast>shows you how much C++ I know
10:56<@peter1138>it's probably java
10:57<@Celestar>this is java :/
10:57<Pinkbeast>Shows you how much Java I know!
10:57*dihedral knows java
10:57<@planetmaker>nice island. yes
10:57<@Celestar>anyway. going home :P
10:57<@Celestar>cya
10:57<Rubidium>Celestar: maybe the auto type?
10:58<@Celestar>it's an int.
10:58<@Celestar>no Auto Type, no Integer. int.
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>there are even trains in java :p
10:59<@Celestar>well making openttd in java would require it to run on a 128GB of RAM for a normal sized map :P
10:59<@peter1138>remember when java had that horrible built-in ui?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: that's about the memory requirement to process CETS with nmlc :=
10:59<@Celestar>peter1138: it still has :P
11:00<@peter1138>is it still there? heh
11:00<@peter1138>mostly it's not used anymore, fortunately
11:00<@Celestar>the swing shit? yah.
11:00<blathijs>But the swing stuff was the new UI, right?
11:00*dihedral hums 'swing low'
11:00<@Celestar>it's as horrible
11:00<blathijs>Wasn't the old one "AWT" or something?
11:00<@peter1138>AWT old
11:00<@Celestar>yah.
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>i used swing in my PraxProg course :)
11:00<@peter1138>Swing implements native look & feel
11:01<@Celestar>with a lot of luck and hacking.
11:01<@peter1138>yeah
11:01<@Celestar>otoh. this shit here uses awt.
11:01<@peter1138>i just remember the awful 'metal' gui
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>i usually stay away from gui programming...
11:02<@peter1138>Celestar, and if minecraft was written in c++, it'd... actually run on a low end system
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>i did something with wxpython a while ago
11:02<@peter1138>infinite maps in ottd!
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>fraactal map generator!
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>only generate the parts that have been visited once :)
11:03<@peter1138>that's what perlin in
11:03<@peter1138>*is
11:03<@peter1138>except not our implementation
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>(which is somewhat problematic if you have a "map overview" :p
11:04<@peter1138>cos we have a weird version
11:04<@peter1138>which is slightly faster
11:04<@peter1138>also problematic for multiplayer
11:04<@peter1138>and for tile updates
11:04<@peter1138>vehicle updates
11:04<@peter1138>etc etc
11:05<@peter1138>just never gonna work :p
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>we need toroidal and spheroidal worlds :)
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>(at least the latter requires map rotation)
11:08<@peter1138>nah, just warp it
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12:14<andythenorth>hmm, simutrans or openttd?
12:14<__ln__>yes
12:14<andythenorth>xor
12:16<@planetmaker>good evening
12:16<andythenorth>lo planetmaker
12:16<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> xor <- there won't be much left after this operation :p
12:17<andythenorth>just a few bits :P
12:17<andythenorth>because they're so similar? :P
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but exactly the bits that won't help you if they are standalone :p
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12:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24894 trunk/src/settings.cpp (2013-01-08 17:44:39 UTC)
12:44<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5434]: Invalidate station selection window when station spread changes (based on patch by juanjo)
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12:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24895 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2013-01-08 17:56:43 UTC)
12:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5436]: Allow downgrade of road bridges in the scenario editor
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13:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24896 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-01-08 18:10:53 UTC)
13:11<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5420, FS#5421, FS#5422, FS#5427]: Improvements and fixes for a number of English strings
13:11<@Terkhen>hello
13:12<@planetmaker>good evening Terkhen
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause>new test on which translators can react within half an hour? :p
13:13<@planetmaker>Needs no new translations
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>but it needs hitting "this translation is up to date" button :p
13:14<@planetmaker>I don't think so. That iirc only applies to strings which don't exist in the translation
13:16<@Terkhen>I play with an advantage, sometimes on IRC people comment on how slow we are
13:16<@planetmaker>:D
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13:18<@Terkhen>there, done
13:20<@peter1138>my lego electric wires don't work
13:20<@peter1138>what is this nonsense?
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13:22<@Belugas>plastic is not a good electric conductor ;)
13:22<@peter1138>hahaha no
13:35<__ln__>http://i.imgur.com/NOrMu.jpg
13:35<@Belugas>undestood, you're testing a lego set
13:35<@planetmaker>hm, looking at the patch to correct spellings in comments: There are certain recurrent patterns :D
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13:35<@Belugas>all thoe written by non english natives are wrong?
13:35<@Belugas>"those"
13:36<@planetmaker>yes, those errors, too :-P
13:36<@planetmaker>like missing letters
13:36<@planetmaker>and yes, I found also a number which surely I did introduce ;-)
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>so, i suppose when i want a "2D-diff-viewer with permutation-support", i'd have to write one myself?
13:41<@planetmaker>err what?
13:42<V453000>sounds nicely wtf
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>like, i have this table, which is tab-separated, and i want the diff on a per-field basis, and if the line was moved from somewhere else, it shouldn't show as changed
13:42<@planetmaker>ah. I guess there the answer is 'yes'. Please provide me with your script / programme which solves that problem, though :-)
13:43<@planetmaker>I'm in need of that, too
13:45<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: sort + (d)wdiff?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24897 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-01-08 18:45:28 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 27 changes by pdedinski
13:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 3 changes by elleryq
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 30 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<@DorpsGek>romanian - 12 changes by mariush
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>what's dwdiff?
13:47<+michi_cc>http://linux.die.net/man/1/dwdiff
13:47<+michi_cc>word-level diff with configurable delimiter
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>ah, that sounds useful
13:47<+michi_cc>And maybe also https://github.com/l0b0/diff-ignore-moved-lines
13:48<+michi_cc>dwdiff can also directly take a conventional diff
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>i should write that down somewhere...
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14:52<Wolf01>hello
14:52<Kjetil>ehlo
14:52<@Terkhen>hi
14:53<andythenorth>hrm
14:53<andythenorth>something odd has happened
14:53<__ln__>perché no parliamo italiano questo notte?
14:53<andythenorth>yes
14:54<Wolf01>"perché nonparliamo" ;)
14:55<Rubidium>andythenorth: mb released dbsetxxl?
14:55<andythenorth>dunno, did he?
14:55<andythenorth>:)
14:55<Rubidium>you said something odd happened
14:56<__ln__>it's like 14 years since i last studied any italian, and it wasn't much back then either.
14:56<andythenorth>long-lost openttd people coming back
14:56<Rubidium>but I reckon the release date of dbsetxxl is linked to the opening of Berlin Brandenburg airport ;)
14:56<andythenorth>well michael's stuff is clearly popular :)
14:57<andythenorth>he gets lots of forum love
14:59<@Terkhen>you may need to improve your marketing skills, andythenorth :P
15:02<andythenorth>scarcity creates demand
15:03*andythenorth wants a bananas totaliser btw
15:03<andythenorth>I have 984k downloads or something :P
15:03<andythenorth>a bell should go off when 1m is reached
15:08<Pinkbeast>Hang on, I'm off to grab 16,000 copies of FIRS
15:11*andythenorth is off to the pub
15:11<andythenorth>bye
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15:24<@peter1138>herpaderp
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15:27<drac_boy>hi
15:28<@peter1138>https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4746297628062&set=oa.183863701756740&type=1&permPage=1
15:29<@peter1138>got the lights working :p
15:34<@peter1138> rename src/{spriteloader/png.hpp => widgets/date_widget.h} (59%)
15:34<@peter1138>i'm sure there isn't that much similar
15:44<frosch123>the copyright probably
15:44<@peter1138>:-)
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16:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r24898 trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp (2013-01-08 21:08:18 UTC)
16:08<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Don't unpause the game when closing the highscore window if it was already paused before the highscore screen was shown.
16:14<drac_boy>I knwo this may be a bit of a silly question but is there any settings or so in particular on openttd to help with limited hardware resource? (other than not using super map sizes)
16:16<frosch123>spritecache size is far more important than map size
16:17<frosch123>reduce sprite_cache_size_px in openttd.cfg
16:17<frosch123>enforce 8bpp blitter by setting blitter = 8bpp-optimized
16:17<frosch123>disable extrazoom by setting the min zoom level in adv. settings
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16:20<drac_boy>hm what should the cache be set to?
16:20<frosch123>the unit is megapixels
16:20<frosch123>so when using 8bpp it is megabytes
16:20<frosch123>when using 32bpp it is 4 megabytes
16:20<frosch123>ottd will become slower if you make it smaller
16:20<Zuu>Turn off "Full animation" in the settings menu from inside the game.
16:21<frosch123>you can regain speed by disabling the extrazoom
16:21<drac_boy>hmm frosch123 so maybe something like 10MB?
16:21<frosch123>which makes sprites use less memory
16:21<frosch123>drac_boy: the traditional setting before extra zoom was 4 :)
16:21<drac_boy>mm I think I've had that zoom thing disabled..it just looks too silly seeing fat blocks of pixels :)
16:21<drac_boy>4....ok I'll check about that later, thanks
16:26<drac_boy>next month might finish swapping pieces around and that'll mean two less computers too. so just had to see if openttd would still be of useable nature or not. but I'll rather wait to actually see first ^_^
16:28<drac_boy>mm anyway frosch123 and zuu what are you two even doing? :P
16:29<frosch123>drinking coffee
16:29<frosch123>well, no real coffee
16:29<@Belugas>not real man
16:29<frosch123>hot water, 3 pieces of chocolate, and a bit of coffee taste or so
16:30<Zuu>drinking juice
16:30<drac_boy>heh :)
16:30<@Belugas>coffee and rum
16:30<@Belugas>harharhar
16:30*drac_boy is just writing some forum replies and working a bit more on this grf tracking table
16:32<frosch123>oh, and listening to some chuck berry
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16:36<drac_boy>hi supercheese
16:36<drac_boy>need more sirens? :P
16:36<Supercheese>Sirens, eh?
16:36<Rubidium>there haven't been any sirens in here
16:36<Supercheese>From what I recall of my trips to Europe, the emergency vehicle sirens there are rather different than those here in the states
16:38<Wolf01>'night all
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16:39<Zuu>Going to bed sounds like a good idea.
16:40<drac_boy>Supercheese I was just joking about your grf :)
16:40<Supercheese>Too loud or somethin?
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17:02<@peter1138>hmm
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17:20<frosch123>night
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17:26<@peter1138>what a nasty idea
17:26<@peter1138>automatically chop large ship sprites up and build sub-vehicles for each part
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17:28<@Terkhen>good night
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17:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24899 /trunk/src (settings.cpp table/settings.ini) (2013-01-08 22:38:59 UTC)
17:39<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5434]: Also the station build window needs redrawing when the station spread changes (based on patch by juanjo)
17:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24900 /trunk/src (242 files in 22 dirs) (2013-01-08 22:46:42 UTC)
17:46<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5389]: Comments with typos (most fixes supplied by Eagle_rainbow)
17:48<@planetmaker>drat... wrong FS entry :S
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18:28<Supercheese>Problem: I place a water NewObject on a river slope. I go to clear the object, and the river is also destroyed...
18:28<Supercheese>Unsloped river tiles still remain when the object is removed
18:33<@planetmaker>which version?
18:33<Supercheese>1.3.0 beta1 currently
18:33<Supercheese>was that changed in a nightly since?
18:33<@planetmaker>nope
18:34<@planetmaker>I remembered then a previous thing with water and river slopes. Might be industries only then...
18:34<@planetmaker>Or locks even
18:34<@peter1138>report it :D
18:34<@peter1138>g;gnuit
18:34<@peter1138>g'night even
18:34<Supercheese>will report
18:38<__ln__>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/switzerland/9788155/Swiss-court-relieves-farmer-of-655-year-old-debt.html
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18:46<Flygon>...I like how the debt is relieved just because of a legal technicality :p
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19:07*drac_boy is back from supper now
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20:08<Eddi|zuHause>"the heat in australia is so high that they had to introduce new colours to the weather chart"
20:08<V453000>LOL
20:09<Flygon>Yeah
20:09<Flygon>Purple and Mengenta
20:10<Flygon>...oh lord, I forgot how FM-synthy this bass is
20:10<Flygon>In fact, this whole track
20:10<Flygon>'toxitownblues.flac'
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>FM Synth? are we back to 1980?
20:11<Flygon>It IS a Mega Drive track :p
20:12<Flygon>duelindance.flac is even more 90s
20:12<Flygon>Why?
20:12<Flygon>That. Orchistra. Hit. Sample.
20:12<Flygon>This'll take a while to Dr-
20:12<Flygon>Oh god
20:12<Flygon>I just realized what channel I am in
20:12<Flygon>Hahahahhahaha
20:12<Flygon>I thought I was in a completely different channel
20:12<Supercheese>Wrong channel eh
20:12<Flygon>Because in a different channel
20:12<Flygon>I was in a 2+ hour long channel about various 80s and 90s shizz @_@
20:13<Supercheese>chat*
20:13<Flygon>I feel so stupid, hahaha
20:13<Flygon>Yes, chat
20:13<Flygon>Gah
20:13<Supercheese>S'all good ;)
20:13<Flygon>My sleep fatigue is showing
20:13<drac_boy>heh
20:13*drac_boy smacks flygon with an aussie pillow
20:13<drac_boy>:)
20:14*Flygon slaps drac_boy with a .flac https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/dancetune.flac
20:14<Flygon>Apperantly the epitome of Mega Drive music in the early 90s :p
20:16<drac_boy>whats a flac?
20:17<Flygon>...
20:17<Flygon>For a man that knows how North American Railroads work
20:17<Flygon>You're not very computer savvy :p
20:17<Flygon>Open it in VLC, it'll work
20:18<drac_boy>actually I am..I just don't bother dealign with window-specific things which explains why I may not know about them
20:18<Flygon>Ah, gotcha
20:20<drac_boy>dealign? dealing ....
20:20<drac_boy>thats so funny .. never would had thought flipping two letters could make a new word
20:20*drac_boy wonders if dealign is actually a word
20:20<drac_boy>maybe not..unalign would be more proper I think
20:26-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
20:38<Sacro>grr, anyone know what graphics pack has the home/distant semaphore, BR style
20:42<drac_boy>had a look at the openttdcoop grf list? may still be there
21:00<drac_boy>any luck sacro?
21:03-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-059-143.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
21:05<Sacro>drac_boy: no, i'll go look
21:06<Sacro>nope, don't see it
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21:07<drac_boy>hmm no idea then sorry :/
21:07<Sacro>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=166898 those ones that flherne uses
21:07*drac_boy only has used newsignals.grf from MB alone as far as signals are concerned
21:08<Sacro>oh
21:08<Sacro>combined american signal set
21:09<Flygon>Australian Signals are impossible to do
21:09<Flygon>Each state had different signalling regulations :P
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21:11<drac_boy>heh
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21:24<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: that's not really different in germany :p
21:24<Flygon>Eddi: People don't realize Germany has states, apart from pre-1991 :p
21:25<Flygon>Only countries I've seen that people understand states exist are USA, Canada, and Australia
21:25<Flygon>Also China and Japan
21:25<Eddi|zuHause>at the beginning of the railway age, germany was a loose confederation of around 40 states
21:25<Flygon>...40?
21:25<Flygon>...holy... well, there's an f word somewhere there
21:26<Flygon>I can't believe such a small area an function with so many states O_O
21:27<Flygon>Here, we have trouble comprehending states smaller than, say, Victoria (around the size of Poland)
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>then bismarck came along, drove austria out as the strongest competitor, and unified the rest of germany under a central government, but that didn't quite propagate to the railways, there were still 6 major state railway authorities and several smaller railways
21:27<drac_boy>well at least the prussia locomotives were nice, period :P
21:27<drac_boy>and so was saxon
21:27<drac_boy>heh heh
21:28<Flygon>Prussia: Producing good 2CC material since... whenever
21:28<Flygon>Still, Germany seems to have kept one thing straight over time
21:28<Flygon>Their bloody gauge
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>that went on like this until WWI, after WWI the railways were unified into one railway
21:28<drac_boy>760mm?
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>but then again after WWII, it was split up into east and west
21:29<drac_boy>or 4000+mm (I forgot exact) for one of their rail-based boat lifter thing
21:29<drac_boy>or hilter's would-be "huge" gauge
21:29<drac_boy>:)
21:29<Flygon>Nazi gauge is a terrible idea :p
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: well, that is not strictly true either
21:29<Flygon>Brunel gauge? Sure. But 3 meters on just two rails?
21:29<drac_boy>or how about the endless 2ft industrial gauges too :)
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there is standard gauge, but then there was "badian broad gauge" and several narrow gauges
21:30<Flygon>Point is, to my understanding, for long haul purposes, Germany had a somewhat unified gauge
21:31<Flygon>I mean, for example, between Sydney and Melbourne, a 800km trip, you had to change trains half-way through because of a 1600mm vs 1435mm difference
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes, like all of europe except spain and russia
21:31<Flygon>Really?
21:31<Flygon>Huh...
21:31<drac_boy>talgo trains had one thing right..they could continue nonstop (well technicially not full speed) through two different gauges
21:31<drac_boy>:)
21:31<Flygon>Perhaps modern Europe is very good at hiding their history...
21:32<Flygon>drac_boy: Apperantly the Talgo solution is an advancement of a rejected guage solution developed in either NSW or Vic... good job, Federal Government, rejecting a perfectly good solution @_@
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: btw, 40 states is not the tip of the iceberg, i think i read the number 200 once, until Napoleon cleaned out the mess :)
21:33<Flygon>Then again, Talgo may not have worked as well considering the fact that Diesel and Steam locomotives were the only things used
21:33<Flygon>Convertable passenger and freightcars would solve a lot of isuses, though
21:33<Flygon>200... that's barely a country >_>
21:34<Flygon>Then again, Australia used to be over 1000 seperate... uh... societies?
21:34<Flygon>Until the Europeans came and f*$#ed that up
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, germany didn't quite manage the conversion to a nation state at the end of medieval times, like france and england did
21:36<Eddi|zuHause>the idea of nationalism was actually seeded into germany by Napoleon, which became a) the root of his defeat, and b) the root of the almost total destruction of europe 100 years later
21:38<Flygon>Sooo
21:38<Flygon>Nepoleon destroyed Europe?
21:38<Flygon>Or, nearly did
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>basically... let's say he had a big influence in that ;)
21:40*Flygon nod
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21:50<drac_boy>I'm going to bed a bit earlier, bye
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23:54<kamnet>Good morning
---Logclosed Wed Jan 09 00:00:52 2013