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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-10

---Logopened Thu Jan 10 00:00:55 2013
00:09<Supercheese>Hmm, eGRVTS sources aren't available anywhere, are they?
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00:13<Pikka>peter1138, scuddles demands a server reset
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01:17<Supercheese>Wait, how do eGRVTS horses have 3 animation frames, when motion_counter is not divisible by 3...
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01:24<Supercheese>Huh, I never noticed but it does hang on 1 frame longer than the other two
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02:01<@peter1138>uh oh
02:03<@peter1138>Supercheese, with advanced varaction 2 you can use mod 3
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02:05<Supercheese>Yes, that would leave the remainder one
02:05<Supercheese>hence one frame is longer, right?
02:07<@peter1138>eh?
02:07<Supercheese>16 % 3
02:07<@peter1138>why would that leave a remainder?
02:07<@peter1138>motion_counter is 32-bits
02:07<Supercheese>blah
02:08<@peter1138>not 4
02:08<@peter1138>it would glitch... very rarely
02:08<Supercheese>Hmm, in NML, motion_counter claims to go from 0-15
02:09<Supercheese>motion_counter % 3 would have a remainder then, no?
02:09<Supercheese>or am I totally misunderstanding
02:09<@peter1138>it's lying?
02:09<@peter1138>i dunno, i've never used nml
02:10<Supercheese>Oh pooh
02:10<Supercheese>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_variables
02:10<Supercheese>"motion_counter 0 ... 15 "
02:10<@peter1138>yes i looke
02:10<@peter1138>+d
02:11<@peter1138>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Motion_counter_.2846.29
02:11<Supercheese>I'll write the switches and see if it behaves as expected
02:11<@peter1138>maybe someone saw the 16 and thought it meant it was 0..15
02:11<Supercheese>0..15 same magnitude as 1..16
02:12<@peter1138>exactly
02:12<Supercheese>hmm
02:12<Supercheese>anyway, coding
02:13<@peter1138>full 32 bits are returning for newgrf
02:13<@peter1138>looks like you'd want to shift >> 8 first though
02:15<Supercheese>Yep, using motion_counter % 3 looks just like eGRVTS
02:17<Supercheese>I rather suspect that's what eGRVTS uses
02:18<Supercheese>So, pseudo-glitchy but nobody's complained as of yet
02:18<Supercheese>I can live with that
02:18<@peter1138>well that's wrong and nml's broken then
02:18<Supercheese>hm?
02:19<@peter1138>'motion_counter' : {'var': 0x46, 'start': 8, 'size': 4},
02:20<@peter1138>whyyyyyyyyyyy
02:20<@peter1138>why would they do this
02:20*Supercheese does not know
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02:23<@peter1138>should be 24, not 4
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02:37<@peter1138>weird
02:37<@peter1138>simutrans lets me buy vehicles before they're introduced
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02:40<@peter1138>how weird
02:40<@peter1138>you look at a vehicle's orders and... it stops
02:55<Celestar_>morning ...
02:55-!-Celestar_ is now known as Celestar
02:59<Celestar>peter1138: whatcha doing with Simutrans? :P
03:02<@peter1138>lookin at it
03:02<@peter1138>it was apt-gettable, so i did
03:02<Celestar>and? how is it?
03:02<@peter1138>not very pleasurable :p
03:03<Celestar>why's that :P
03:03<@peter1138>it's ugly
03:03<@peter1138>the toolbars are too long
03:04<@peter1138>clicking on a vehicle to view its stats buys it
03:09<Celestar>LOL. Berlin Airport might not be finished before 2017
03:09<Celestar>Some experts suggest that it is cheaper to tear down the whole terminal again and start over
03:10<Celestar>try-and-error international airport construction. Can't really say they're not innovative.
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03:17<@peter1138>why am i sat here with my headphones on...
03:31<dihedral>hello
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03:39<__ln__>peter1138: sounds ungrammatical
03:49<Supercheese>well, good night
03:49<@planetmaker>moin
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03:50<@planetmaker>peter1138, wrt motion counter: it only makes sense - also according to the specs you linked - to distininguish 16 values
03:50<@peter1138>planetmaker, why?
03:50<@peter1138>it doesn't say that at all
03:50<@planetmaker>As the vehicle will not be redrawn, if it doesn't move. and there are only 16 steps in a tile
03:50<@planetmaker>it does say exactly that
03:50<@peter1138>there are only 16 steps in a tile
03:50<@peter1138>but it doesn't reset at the tile end
03:51<@peter1138>reach the tile, it goes to 17
03:51<@peter1138>+end
03:53<@planetmaker>that yes.
03:53<@peter1138>eh?
03:56<@planetmaker>So you could actually introduce longer animations. NML currently only returns (var 0x46 & 0x00000F00) >> 8
03:56<@planetmaker>and calls that motion_counter
03:57<@peter1138>right
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04:04<__ln__>http://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/zugunglueck-bei-neuhausen-am-rheinfall
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05:34<__ln__>who's the chick: http://hs12.snstatic.fi/webkuva/oletus/560/1305635731310
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05:45<valhallasw>__ln__: what note is that? it's not a normal €5 note, and as far as I know the ECB only makes euro notes
05:46<valhallasw>oh, new notes. I'll shut up :-)
05:47<valhallasw>apparently it's Europa.
05:56*peter1138 fails with setfacl
06:00<@peter1138>mkdir /backup/dir; chown dir.group /backup/dir; chmod 700 /backup/dir;
06:00<@peter1138>setfacl -R -m u:"backup":rx /backup/dir;
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06:01<@peter1138>i thought user "backup" would be able to access /backup/dir :S
06:03<SpComb>the only setfacl's I've run have been copy-pasted off the internets
06:04<@peter1138>yeah, well
06:04<@peter1138>guess where i got that from :p
06:06<SpComb>so what did it even do?
06:06<@peter1138>well it's set
06:06<@peter1138>but...
06:06<SpComb>also on all the files?
06:09<@peter1138>no files yet
06:09<@peter1138>just trying to get into it
06:09<SpComb>not sure I get it
06:09<SpComb>effective rights mask?
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06:19<Celestar>back
06:21<__ln__>valhallasw: indeed, it's (some details of) the new note
07:01-!-bolli [~Sam@222.160.17.46.bridgep.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:07<@peter1138>yay, working locks
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07:12<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: as long as it's not newgrf-definable, what's the point?
07:12<@peter1138>eh?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.stuellein.de/bilder/SHW-l-g.jpg
07:13<@peter1138>i'm not doing anything with graphics
07:13<@peter1138>just making the ship stop and then rise/fall
07:14<@peter1138>looks a bit weird with 2 ships at the same time but there you go
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, hence the newgrf authors should be able to do something with graphics
07:16<@peter1138>i'm not precluding that
07:16<@peter1138>just not implementing it
07:17<@peter1138>http://tinychat.com/openttd
07:20<@peter1138>huge ships glitch everywhere :p
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07:21<drac_boy>hi
07:21<dadymax>nothink can be perfect )
07:21<dadymax>looks good )
07:23<@peter1138>that looked catastrophic
07:23<Celestar>wtb ...
07:23<@peter1138>?
07:23<Celestar>collision detection for naval vessels :P
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: i think that's a bad idea.
07:24<Celestar>lol
07:24<Celestar>the reason being?
07:24<drac_boy>me too eddi
07:24<@peter1138>the huge ferry glitches out the side of the lock :S
07:24<Celestar>well
07:25<Celestar>maybe it's a Panama lock and the vessel is post-Panamax?
07:25<Celestar>:P
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: it would totally cripple ships, which are already at a disadvantage, because the game doesn't model "slow" cargos very well
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: however, i think ships should be separated at docks like aircraft, so only one ship per dock/loading bay
07:26<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, guess what
07:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: well. then not crippling ships by having them diffuse through each other sounds like the solution to the wrong problem :P
07:26<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, i've a patch for that :p
07:26<Celestar>HAHAH
07:26<Celestar>I missed that.
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>your webcam is broken
07:27<drac_boy>eddi problem is 'one ship per dock' may be a bit counterproductive to the small ships. because two can fit in the same berth only one big ocean ship can fit in
07:27<drac_boy>just mentioning that, not been the first time for me tho
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: different statemachines for small/medium/large ships?
07:28<drac_boy>sounds fair to me
07:28<@peter1138>yeah i adapted ships to use multi-stop docks
07:28<@peter1138>so there could be 2 at each dock
07:28<@peter1138>but it doesn't use statemachines atm
07:29<@peter1138>cos that just isn't going to work with so a wide size different
07:29<@peter1138>*difference
07:29<@peter1138>oh, and of course ships stop outside the dock, not on it
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07:30<Eddi|zuHause>the current dock has 3 sides, so theoretically 3 ships could load there, but maybe large vessels could only load at the "front", not the "sides"
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07:30<drac_boy>eddi the reason I bought that up is because even although the scales are a bit out of porpotional it would had been realistic for two lake fishing boats to be able to berth where only one single ocean-going container carrier boat could fit at
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: yes, but currently, ships have no "size" at all
07:31<drac_boy>3 sides..hmm I would really say two but thats me
07:31<@peter1138>2 sides and the end
07:31<@peter1138>not all (3) sides may be available though
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>we need river docks anyway, things you can put on flat land
07:32<drac_boy>I've never really seen a skinny pier that ever had any berth at the 'front' end rather than only down the sides but I'm not going to complain, do whatever you think you like best of that ok? :)
07:32<@peter1138>sure but that's a valid place for ships to stop atm
07:33<@peter1138>you can run a single-width canal and put a dock at the end such that only the short side is accessible
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, it could be up to the newgrf author ;)
07:34<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: There's even specs for flat docks, somebody just has to implement them and draw up some default graphics.
07:35<@peter1138>it's unfortunate that roadstops are called roadstops :p
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: i think your "problem" can be solved with different graphics :)
07:36<Flygon>You know what'd make ships useful?
07:36<@peter1138>more cargo
07:36<Flygon>A medieval pack with the ability to attack enemies...
07:36<Flygon>...yep
07:36<Flygon>Let's make it an OpenTTD+AoEII hybrid :D
07:38<@peter1138>how do you add settings these days?
07:39<+michi_cc>src/table/settings.ini
07:39<+michi_cc>Does it really need one though?
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07:51<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/locks.diff
07:54<V453000>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/steel_cargo.png hows that :)
07:56<oskari89>peter1138: The locks works as IRL?
07:56<oskari89>:)
07:56<oskari89>Sounds quite good
07:57<bolli>V453000, That looks really good :)
07:57<@peter1138>not entirely
07:57<@peter1138>there are no gates
07:57<@peter1138>michi_cc, it might annoy people
07:58<drac_boy>use a parameter and make it disabled by default :P
07:58<drac_boy>heh heh
07:59<oskari89>peter1138: Gates shouldn't be a problem :)
07:59<oskari89>Someone just draws them :)
07:59<+michi_cc>peter1138: So what?
08:00<oskari89>(default gates graphics)
08:00<oskari89>Like that: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Poland_Nogat_-_Biala_Gora_lock.jpg
08:00<+michi_cc>The only things that need settings are changes that would definitely break old savegames, and that will definitely not.
08:01<Ammler>michi_cc: that is technical view, there is also gameplay change
08:02<@peter1138>oskari89, that would need a state machine
08:02<@peter1138>oskari89, and dealing with multiple ships
08:02<@peter1138>this patch just makes ships treated slopes specially
08:03<+michi_cc>Ammler: That's what I mean. Something that literally breaks savegames, i.e.makes it impossible to load, is not trunk material. Some ships moving up and down don't break gameplay.
08:04<@peter1138>not broken but changed
08:04<@peter1138>very minorly
08:05<Ammler>oh, it is basically just change of the animation? I thought, it does queue ships etc. :-)
08:05<@peter1138>it causes the ship to stop briefly
08:05<@peter1138>then it has to raise/lower, and then accelerate again
08:05<Ammler>that is really no harm, what if a ship crosses?
08:05<@peter1138>without the patch they go through at full speed, following the slope
08:06<@peter1138>if the paths cross then the universe ends
08:06<@peter1138>i mean, it just looks a bit weird
08:06<Ammler>ok :-)
08:06<@peter1138>but no different to ships crossing normally anyway
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08:06<+michi_cc>Even if you do make a setting, have it default on, otherwise nobody will notice it.
08:06<@peter1138>i think no setting may be okay
08:07<@peter1138>as if we *did* introduce a state-machine type thing later it could be awkward
08:07<@peter1138>"why do ships go straight through these locks"
08:08<+michi_cc>Fitting read: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html
08:08<@peter1138>setting == save game bump :S
08:09<oskari89>Would the state machine thing be hard to code?
08:09<@peter1138>not hard to code, but fairly invasive
08:09<@peter1138>ships have no concept of collisions, and therefore no concept of waiting
08:10<Eddi|zuHause><michi_cc> The only things that need settings are changes that would definitely break old savegames, and that will definitely not <-- so what happens with savegames where a ship is halfway up a slope?
08:10<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, good point
08:10<@peter1138>that would break
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>that does not necessarily need a setting, only a savegame conversion
08:15<@peter1138>is it possible to understand a cocteau twins song?
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08:21<Eddi|zuHause>a who what?
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that the volcano that exploaded? :p
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08:25<Eddi|zuHause>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa
08:26<@peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocteau_Twins
08:27<@peter1138>there's a 30 second sample there... heh
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>that must be music for old people :p
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08:33<@peter1138><
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08:51<Eddi|zuHause><Supercheese> Fun, English wikipedia featured article is the London Metropolitan Railway <-- 150th jubilee?
08:54<Flygon>Man, I can't wait for 2019ish
08:54<@peter1138>:-(
08:54<Flygon>Melbourne had the worlds largest electric network around 100 years before then :B
08:55<Flygon>But then we ran out of lines to electrify... barring regional lines. And the steam locos went over 100km/h. EMU's capped @ 80km/hish
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>80km/h-ish is perfectly fine for commuter lines
08:58<Flygon>Eddi: Not for train trips that take 110 minutes with DMU's that can go 177km/h, though :p
08:59<Flygon>Amusingly, the EMU carriages could be hauled @ over 80km/h by a steam locomotive
09:00<Flygon>I should note, Eddi, 80km/h is the official speed limit
09:01<Flygon>Probably imposed due to 191x era 1500v substation limitations
09:01<Flygon>Chances are, they've been driven to 100km/h by accident, just like how current EMU's 'designed' for 115km/h have been accidentally coasted to 130km/h+ :p
09:02<Flygon>But it's hard to get, due to a standard 'stopping all stations' pattern
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>the berlin S-Bahn had similar limits, electrification started in the 1920s
09:02<Flygon>What voltage?
09:02<Flygon>And overhead wire or third rail?
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>third rail
09:02<Flygon>Overhead here... ZERO third rail in Australia
09:02<Flygon>Ah
09:02<Flygon>Third rail.... I really dislike it
09:02<@peter1138>3rd rail is fun
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure about the voltage, possibly 750V
09:03<Flygon>It's advantages are offset by stupidly low voltage
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i could look that up, but.. :p
09:03<Flygon>750v is... well, bad :(
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09:03<Flygon>Only good for trams imo...
09:03<@peter1138>weird thing about the metropolitan line is how far out of london it went
09:03<Flygon>peter1138: Yeah, Australian cities were influenced heavily by that sort of design
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>indeed, it's 750V
09:04<Flygon>eg. Melbourne-Pakenham is the same distance as Melbourne-Geelong... the former is considered a Metro line, latter is a Diesel HST line for a 'regional' city, hahaha
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: i guess it's not that bad, as with third rail you can get "more copper" better than on catenary, so you can transmit higher currents
09:06<Flygon>There's only so much current you can shove into a third rail
09:06<@peter1138>it ended at verney junction, which is a tiny little hamlet out in the middle of nowhere
09:06<Flygon>...specifically, your substations run out of grunt
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>they experimented with various systems before WWI, and it was planned to go for catenary&AC at that time, but after the plans got revived after WWI, it was reconsidered and decided for 3rd rail&DC instead
09:06<Flygon>peter1138: People claim that the Hurstbridge line here terminates at a tiny village :p
09:07<Flygon>AC?
09:07<Flygon>Wow, I'm surprised
09:07<Flygon>I'd have expected 11kV DC
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>you can't really get DC that high
09:07<@peter1138>Flygon, pfft, that's only 23 miles
09:08<Flygon>peter1138: Hurstbridge UK or Hurstbridge Victoria?
09:08<Flygon>Eddi: What's the practical limit?
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: it was around the same time that they started electrifying main lines, which was done with 15kV AC
09:08<Flygon>Ah
09:08<@peter1138>there is no hurstbridge uk
09:08<Flygon>I'm surprised they didn't go with 15kV AC then...
09:09<Flygon>peter1138: Ah, sorry. Many Australian towns are ripped from the UK.
09:09<Flygon>eg. St Albans is a town in NSW, and a suburb in Vic
09:09<Flygon>Either way, compared to the rest of Metro, Hurstbridge is considered 'out in the sticks'
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>main line electrification in prussia was not located around berlin, so there was no reason to stick to that voltage
09:09<Flygon>So is Stony Point... but it's the only Diesel Metro line
09:10<@peter1138>flygon, http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=verney+junction&hl=en&ll=51.940042,-0.92864&spn=0.002659,0.003546&sll=51.940389,-0.92813&sspn=0.010636,0.022359&t=h&hnear=Verney+Junction,+United+Kingdom&z=18
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>mainline electrification reached berlin only in the 1980s
09:10<@peter1138>(of course, difference is it doesn't still go there)
09:10<Flygon>In fact, Stony Point literally terminates at a beach
09:10<Flygon>Ah, I was going to ask that
09:11<Flygon>I should note, when most Melbourne suburban lines were built, many places trains stopped at were like Verney Junction
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>(electrification efforts were actually enforced in the 1930s, but they didn't manage to finish before WWII)
09:11<Flygon>But the city practically grew on the stations (also, trams)
09:12<Flygon>Is that railway shown still used by trains, peter1138?
09:12<@peter1138>no
09:12<@peter1138>http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/v/verney_junction/verney_junction18.jpg
09:12<@peter1138>hope not :)
09:12<@peter1138>weird to see a disused line with tracks still
09:12<Flygon>Hmm
09:12<Flygon>Eh
09:13<Flygon>That's still freight quality here
09:13<Flygon>Just slap a 25-40km/h speed restriction on it
09:13<@peter1138>don't be silly
09:13<@peter1138>freight goes in trucks :p
09:13<Flygon>I'm not being silly
09:13<Flygon>Mildura line is an example here
09:13<@peter1138>i know
09:14<Flygon>We haul a lot of grain
09:14<Flygon>But, yeah, point is
09:14<Flygon>I don't like third rail
09:14<Flygon>Too many practical problems with it, compared to an overhead wire
09:15<Flygon>Now if we'd just build darned Double Decker trains for longer distance lines...
09:16<@peter1138>if only they'd fit on our lines
09:16<Flygon>Early adopter syndrome?
09:17<Flygon>Victoria has a similar issue. Part of the reason DD trains are so 'hard' to get here, is because we have a small loading gauge (compared to the rest of Aus)
09:18<Flygon>This's made using pre-existing models for things from other networks a pain
09:19<Flygon>On the upside, the gauge is large enough that when you guys sell off your BR125's, we can use them as freight locomotives to replace our 1950s ones :B
09:21-!-Kjetil [kjetil@161.81-166-7.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:22<Flygon>They'll catch on fire less often
09:22-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
09:24*drac_boy smacks flygon for such a stupid suggestion
09:24<drac_boy>:p
09:24<Flygon>I'm being serious
09:24<drac_boy>more like you need Class 66
09:24<drac_boy>:)
09:25<Flygon>....
09:25<Flygon>Those aren't old
09:25<Flygon>I'm suggesting INTENTIONALLY buying old stock
09:25<Flygon>Additionally
09:25<Flygon>BR125 has parts interchangable with XPT
09:26<Flygon>And besides
09:26<Flygon>drac_boy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NR_class
09:26<drac_boy>well BR125 is a highspeed passenger locomotive and also other thing..its well-received in preservation .. so beside "freight" would be blocked at sale time I imagine
09:26<Flygon>Damn
09:26<Flygon>Well, still
09:26<Flygon>V/Line Passenger could use them for some long distance trains
09:27<Pinkbeast>I cannot imagine that if we were selling Class 43s we'd stop you using them for whatever you liked
09:27<drac_boy>Class 66 on the other hand are too numerous at times and they're pretty much norm on anything to do with freights
09:27<Flygon>So that they can run 160-200km/h for Swan Hill trains on the RFR tracks, instead of 80-115km/h with a giant lawnmow-, I mean, classy N-class locomotive
09:27<drac_boy>Pinkbeast theres been many sale diverages/blockages through europe...even from france too...so
09:28<Pinkbeast>I'm not sure what France has to do with it.
09:29<Flygon>Point is... it'd be nice to see the BR125 locomotives continue service around the world
09:29<Pinkbeast>If we'd send the A4s and Britannias to be cut up and turned into razor blades, I cannot see any reason why we would impose any condition on sales of the Class 43
09:29<Flygon>They're quite remarkable, and still are quite useful for long distance trips
09:29<Pinkbeast>Flygon: well, if you ask me, they might continue service in the UK for a good few years yet, replacement programme or no. :-)
09:29<Flygon>Thing is, Pinkbeast
09:29<Flygon>Timems have changed
09:29<drac_boy>Pinkbeast well don't look at me, I'm only going by the monthly news report from europewide areas
09:29-!-Kjetil [kjetil@161.81-166-7.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd
09:30<Flygon>People won't scrap them as likely now
09:30<Flygon>Due to public outcry of a British icon being scrapped
09:30<Pinkbeast>drac: yes, because "Europe" is a monolith, we know
09:30<Flygon>Pinkbeast: True, true... still
09:30<Flygon>If they're ever phased out, It'd be nice to see them on VLP service :)
09:31<Flygon>That, and theoretical forward/backward-compatiblity with the XPT with modifications
09:31<Pinkbeast>I don't know that they'd go for scrap, but I think this idea that if we sold them to another country we'd insist they be used for particular purposes is laughable.
09:31<drac_boy>pinkbeast...the funny thing is.. some of the EWS diesels that were only booked in uk alone .. they are left to rust very badly outdoor at least reporting a few months ago .. basically wouldn't sale them or even scrap them
09:31<Flygon>Kinda funny, XPT is an advancement on the 125 design... but it's top speed is lower :P
09:31<Flygon>What
09:31<Flygon>Really?
09:32<Flygon>But keeping them in operation would have kept them maintained :(
09:32<Pinkbeast>Well, the gearing's right for Australian railways.
09:32<NGC3982>Computers baffle me.
09:32<Flygon>Same reason the 1950s locomotives from here refuse to die. Because they're maintained well
09:32<NGC3982>OpenTTD starts lagging due to big map, with lot's of stuff on it.
09:32<NGC3982>But the RAM is not full, and the CPU is barely working.
09:32<Flygon>Pinkbeast: True, but it'd be nice to see it regeared to 125 specs, and run on a Victorian RFR line.
09:33<Flygon>Just to see how fast it could actually go
09:33<Flygon>I'll be damned if it couldn't go 230
09:33<Flygon>km/h, that is
09:33<Flygon>NGC3982: Rendering?
09:33<Flygon>Disable trees
09:34<drac_boy>flygon well I'm just continuing the same topic anyway .. also on a related note SNCF ordered a lot of new locomotives even as they're moving less freights .. funny thing is most of the previous generation electrics and some diesels are just basically sitting in a full locomotives yard 0_o
09:34<NGC3982>Flygon: It's not like it's unplayable. I just ..don't understand what makes my framerate drop
09:34<NGC3982>Removing the trees surely increases framerate
09:34<drac_boy>haven't heard any kind of peep about leasing or selling them but .. I just hope SNCF isn't "dumb" we will just have to see :|
09:34<NGC3982>(As they always do)
09:34<Flygon>drac_boy: How big is the standard SNCF loading gauge, compared to the UK?
09:35<Pinkbeast>230: uh well 43000 and 43001 were in top condition when they did that and weren't 40 years old
09:35<Flygon>Could be useful to sell the Diesels off to practically anywhere
09:35<Flygon>Electric are near useless in Australia, though
09:35<Pinkbeast>Bigger. Everyone's loading gauge is bigger.
09:35<drac_boy>flygon its of modest UIC gauge so I have no idea about uk's tbh
09:35<Flygon>Pinkbeast: Henc, why I said I'd be damned. I know the 125 reached 241km/h.
09:35<Flygon>Hmm...
09:35<Flygon>I'm not sure what the French loading gauge is verses Victoria
09:36<drac_boy>flygon at least the BB 22200 is still used on some trains but I suspect more of them are just sitting there outdoor with no regarding tho
09:36<Flygon>That, and they'd need to be 1600mm convertable...
09:36<drac_boy>nothing's odd like watching a single BB22200 haul only two UIC carriages for a considerable distance tho
09:36<Pinkbeast>I don't, the diesel rail record is 238 km/h (albeit set by the Class 43)
09:36<Flygon>drac_boy: What IS the economic benefit of letting them rust?
09:37<Pinkbeast>Anyway, back to work
09:37<drac_boy>flygon good question indeed
09:37<Flygon>Pinkbeast: I thought the Diesel record was set by Russia in the 1970s, around 27xkm/h?...
09:37<Flygon>Then again, this IS Soviet Russia...
09:37<drac_boy>at least DB isn't too bad with older locomotives, still having some of the 1xx series running around
09:37<drac_boy>although I do remember reading that DB scrapped a few certain ones 1-2 years ago to avoid the issues with selling them off >_<
09:38<Pinkbeast>"Claimed, but no verification from an independent witness" says Wikipedia which is probably accurate.
09:38<Flygon>Ah, rightyo then
09:38<Flygon>drac_boy: To be fair, many are scrapped due to underframe issues
09:38<Pinkbeast>Like City of Truro and #999
09:38<drac_boy>afk for a bit anyway
09:38<Flygon>Or, more to the fact
09:38<Flygon>Their frames wear the $#%@ out
09:38<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Spirit-of-progress-70th-anniversary-2007.jpg This facade hides a sad fate of rust eating away...
09:38<Flygon>Have fun, dracco
09:39<Pinkbeast>In fact #999 is claimed at 112 mph which, ha ha.
09:39<Flygon>#999?
09:39<Pinkbeast>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Express
09:40<Flygon>180...
09:40<Flygon>...
09:40<Pinkbeast>Like City of Truro but more so, there just ain't enough boiler or grate.
09:40<Flygon>Yeah, that's unbelievable
09:40<Flygon>Even Australia barely ever reached that speed with Steam. Best that comes to mind is 16x in the 1930s in NSW
09:40<Pinkbeast>I think you can just about make an argument for City of Truro in 1904
09:41<Flygon>And 138km/h in Victoria... the driver reckon'd he'd have made 145-150km/h if there wasn't a timetable :B
09:43<Flygon>Keeping in mind, he wasn't suppose to go over 80-115km/h (depending on sections of the track)
09:43<Flygon>He and the fireman only did it because the speed recorder ran out of paper :p
09:44<Flygon>And it was an interstate express train that took it's last load of water for the trip...
09:46<Flygon>Anyway
09:46<Flygon>I'm getting very tired and ranty
09:46<Flygon>have a great day, peeps :3
10:08<@Belugas>hello
10:08<NGC3982>Evening.
10:09<@peter1138>hi sir
10:09<NGC3982>I was just googling trough some Raspberry Pi specs
10:09-!-tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:10<@peter1138>what do you want it for?
10:10<NGC3982>And i was thinking about the discussion we had in this channel regarding using an RPI as a dedicated OpenTTD server.
10:10<@peter1138>okay
10:10<NGC3982>The only thing i see not working is the RAM, and finding a RPI based OS that supports the currect builds.
10:10<@Belugas>hello sir peter1138.
10:10<NGC3982>I guess the latter is not really a problem.
10:10<@peter1138>NGC3982, raspbian is debian. it even comes with openttd.
10:11<@peter1138>(although it'll be a release)
10:11<NGC3982>:-O
10:11<NGC3982>Oh, ok.
10:11<NGC3982>Well then.
10:11*Belugas is doing charge back report. with signature. He does hate that kind of assigment
10:11<@peter1138>later models have 512MB, although some is shared for the gpu
10:11<@peter1138>Belugas urgh
10:11<NGC3982>Afaik, that's not nerly enough?
10:11<@peter1138>for a moderate openttd server, that's more than plenty
10:12<@peter1138>360MB free on mine
10:12<@peter1138>i think it's still running X heh
10:13<@peter1138>390MB free after stopping that, heh
10:14<NGC3982>Then, my calculations are poop.
10:14<NGC3982>I need to order 2 or 3 of them
10:14<@peter1138>hmm?
10:14<NGC3982>One for the arcade machine, and one for OpenTTD
10:14-!-dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:14<NGC3982>And one for future ..stuff.
10:14<@peter1138>cpu-wise it mightn't be enough for a larger map
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10:15<NGC3982>My atom230 can handle it without a charm
10:15<@peter1138>also the ethernet is connected via usb, so that's overhead
10:15<NGC3982>And there is no worser CPU then the Atom230.
10:15<NGC3982>:D.
10:15<@peter1138>which is considerably faster
10:15<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
10:15<NGC3982>Eh, wait. No? There is a RJ45 Ethernet connection?
10:16<@peter1138>yes
10:16<NGC3982>Oh, you mean on the actual card? :)
10:16<@peter1138>yeah it's usb
10:17<NGC3982>What is USB? The Ethernet bus?
10:17<@peter1138>...
10:17<@peter1138>no, usb is usb :S
10:17<NGC3982>Yes, and ethernet is ethernet
10:18<NGC3982>I notice an ethernet connection via RJ45, and two USB connections via USB.
10:20<@peter1138>hmm, actually it's not, dunno where i heard that
10:21<@peter1138>anyway, it's not a pc :p
10:22<@peter1138>i would think it's a bit slow for emulating, but i dunno
10:22<NGC3982>A simple google tells me that the unit (B) uses 2*USB-connectors, and 1*RJ45 connector.
10:22<NGC3982>If the bus uses something else, out of my league.
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10:23<NGC3982>peter1138: Yes, that's the thing. I guess the current model is barely on the line for "more professional" OTTD server maintenance.
10:23<NGC3982>Especially when i wish to host several of them at once.
10:23<@peter1138>profession? what?
10:24<NGC3982>Yes, as i wrote: "More professional", as in serious servers with their own domains and continuus administration.
10:24<NGC3982>Write/wrote/wroot.
10:26<NGC3982>I guess i have to stick to small form factor PCs a bit longer.
10:28*peter1138 ponders setting up a cross-compiler for it
10:29<NGC3982>What's that? :)
10:30<@peter1138>building for a different target than the host
10:34<NGC3982>Ah, i see
10:34<NGC3982>..I think.
10:36-!-supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd
10:38<supermop>hi
10:39-!-WardH [Ward@ip45-152-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
10:39<WardH>Hi
10:40<WardH>I was wondering if it´s possible to change the industry a station delivers to, when there´s more than 1 industry that requires the same resource in range
10:40<WardH>or even balance it out between the two, I assume right now it just uses the closest industry
10:42<drac_boy>hi supermop
10:43<@peter1138>http://i.imgur.com/1Z9PL.jpg
10:43<@peter1138>Belugas :D
10:44<NGC3982>Derp.
10:44<@Belugas>what a cutie!
10:44<@Belugas>the beast, not the beauty...
10:45<NGC3982>WardH: I'm not entirely sure, but i do not think you can actively change what industry of the two, that should handle the resource.
10:46<WardH>ok, then I´m gonna have to build 2 stations and place them just right :p
10:46<NGC3982>Except, if you are transporting the newly created resource from the industry.
10:46<NGC3982>Yes, i would do that.
10:46<NGC3982>I did not find any documentation on this, though.
10:46<WardH>doing a scenario where you have to supply 2 steelmills with x amount of ore
10:47<WardH>so I in my hubris just built 1 big station to service them both :p
10:47<WardH>didn´t work
10:47<NGC3982>If you export steel from one of them, that one will use most of the delivered ore
10:47<NGC3982>I think.
10:57<@Belugas>1554.97$ charge back restored. found a bug on my system
10:57<@Belugas>shit
10:59<@peter1138>:S
11:00<@peter1138>anyone know if ISR source is available?
11:01<NGC3982>Belugas: Charge back due to a system bug? :)
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11:03<NGC3982>Speaking of money,
11:03<NGC3982>I notice that inflation fucks up big time when playing a 1800-ish > 2100-ish game.
11:03<@peter1138>fucks up?
11:04<NGC3982>Or well, it's not incorrect. Just barely playable. Simple engines are up to billion GBP prices.
11:04<@peter1138>if you mean the disparity between costs and cargo income, that is b design
11:04<@peter1138>*by
11:04<@peter1138>most sets are designed for no inflation
11:04<NGC3982>I see.
11:05<NGC3982>We started 1832 with UKRS2+
11:05<@peter1138>ukrs2 should be used with inflation off
11:05<NGC3982>That explains it. Thanks. :3
11:05<NGC3982>Too bad we didn't figure that out two hundred years ago
11:08<@Belugas>NGC3982: nope. bank asked to verify a few payments proof. difference between request and actual data. the difference pointed out to a bug, mainly different process between debit and credit, where credit slip was overwritten by following debit transaction
11:09<NGC3982>Belugas: Oh.
11:09<@Belugas>luckily, signatures are safe and intact. just had to forge back the lost credit slips. still, need to patch hole ASAP
11:09<NGC3982>Oh, ok.
11:09<@Belugas>3500 and counting POS stations to fix
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11:19*peter1138 ponders making a test grf
11:29<Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> anyone know if ISR source is available? <-- planetmaker is the expert in these things
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11:34<@peter1138>found it
11:34<@peter1138>everyone on that devzone thing is hg :-(
11:37<NGC3982>Wow.
11:37<NGC3982>Simply creating a new track next to the current circle system increased operating profit with 40%
11:37<NGC3982>Train queues are the worst thing ever.
11:38<@peter1138>//,.....,.......5F // random bits - not supported by OpenTTD
11:38<@peter1138>hmm
11:38<@peter1138>lies ^
11:38<drac_boy>heh
11:44<@peter1138>difficult to follow this
11:45-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f57df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
11:52<@peter1138>nml doesn't do stations does it?
11:54<@peter1138>hmm, don't appear to have ukwaypoints source any more
11:55<@peter1138>0 * 22 00 04 01 04 00 08 "DFLTDFLTDFLTDFLT"
11:55<@peter1138>that looks sourcey
11:55<@peter1138>not much in the way of comments though :p
11:59<__ln__>the new 5€ note seems unpractically large for daily use: http://is13.snstatic.fi/img/978/1288531112756.jpg
11:59<@peter1138>heh
11:59<@peter1138>hmm, i wonder what is actually different between these buffers... v0.1 and v0.2
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>ground sprites? action14?
12:02<@peter1138>5 bytes longer
12:03<@peter1138>and that... accounts for
12:03<@peter1138>adding "-2007" to the action 8
12:04<@peter1138>result png is exactly the same
12:04<@peter1138>*resultant
12:05<@peter1138>i don't think these waypoints are on bananas though
12:06<@peter1138>Born_Acorn!
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12:17<@peter1138>right, i should... make... some graphics :S
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12:41<@Terkhen>hello
12:44<@peter1138>hmm, how can i get grfcodec to output the header?
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13:09<@peter1138> Signal: Segmentation fault (11)
13:09<@peter1138>good stuff :D
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13:20<MG>Currently I'm playing some multiplayer maps with 1.2.3
13:21<MG>Sadly the chat messages stay forever and are covering the left lower corner of my window...is this a bug?
13:21<MG>or did i forget some advanced settings?
13:22<@peter1138>is it paused?
13:22<MG>no
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>did you press the key left of 1?
13:23<MG>even if it's running for two hours without any real chat, the "player connected" messages are still displayed
13:23<MG>no i didn't press any key
13:23<MG>not the console...
13:25<frosch123>what does "setting network_chat_timeout" say in the console?
13:27<MG>oh that was the solution :D
13:27<frosch123>what value was it set to?
13:28<MG>increased the value while dealing with connection-timeout problems some days ago
13:28<MG>maximum: 65535 :P
13:28<@peter1138>right, random trigger, where you are
13:28<@peter1138>*where ar eyou
13:28<frosch123>@clac 65535/3600
13:28<frosch123>@calc 65535/3600
13:28<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 18.2041666667
13:28<frosch123>so only 18 hours
13:28<MG>lol
13:29<MG>@petert1138: ?
13:29<MG>@peter1138: ?
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>"petert1138" is a scary thought :p
13:33<MG>:D
13:35-!-Maedhros [~maedhros@31.185.224.237] has joined #openttd
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's a rare visit
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>what brings you to these parts of the tt-verse?
13:37<__ln__>@seen Maedhros
13:37<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Maedhros was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 50 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Maedhros> Yexo: so i did :)
13:37<Maedhros>hah, that's a lot longer than I'd thought!
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>didn't quite manage 3 years :p
13:38<Markk>MG: Type "pet" and then press the tab-key (the one that has |<--- --->| on it, between caps lock and 1).
13:38<Maedhros>heh, damn.
13:38<__ln__>yeah, try again -- see you in three years
13:38<Markk>MG: Magic will happend.
13:38<Markk>happen*
13:38<MG>:D
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>1: tsb-complete nicks, 2: ?, 3: profit
13:39<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: +1
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>*tab
13:39<Markk>Tsb complete nicks ftw!
13:40<Maedhros>it seems like I've missed quite a few new things while I've been gone
13:40<Maedhros>like the release of version 1.x!
13:41<Maedhros>and yet everything that I like about OpenTTD is reassuringly similar :)
13:41<@peter1138>well that's annoying
13:41<@peter1138>didn't work, reloaded, and it worked
13:41<@peter1138>hi Maedhros :D
13:42<Maedhros>hi peter1138 :)
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24902 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-01-10 18:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 180 changes by logi
13:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 11 changes by Elias
13:45<@DorpsGek>finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
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13:56<@peter1138>found a bug!
13:56<@Belugas>don't tell anyone, even more if at job!
13:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24903 trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp (2013-01-10 18:58:22 UTC)
13:58<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Cached station animation triggers were only set when removing parts of a station.
13:59<@peter1138>(and saveload)
14:00<Maedhros>Belugas! hello :)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>2 minutes before nightly... bold move :p
14:01<@peter1138>pfft
14:01<@Belugas>midnight, not nightly... ppfffff
14:01<@Belugas>Maedhros!
14:01<@peter1138>one-liner :P
14:01<@Belugas>coming back from the oblivion, as it seems :)
14:02<@Belugas>heheh
14:02<frosch123>the nightly will be done before the testing build for 24903
14:03<frosch123>the nightly started faster than it could trigger the test build :p
14:03<@Belugas>#Screaming for Vengeance!
14:04*Belugas likes a little boost for end of day work session
14:04<Maedhros>Belugas: indeed so - my phd is all finished now, so i'm slowly emerging back into the world :p
14:04<frosch123>phd finished? does that mean no more time for ottd?
14:05<@peter1138>anyway, that little bug explains why my cargo triggers weren't triggering :p
14:05<frosch123>yay, triggering triggers :)
14:06<Maedhros>frosch123: exactly the opposite :)
14:06<frosch123>triggering the trigger triggered...
14:06<frosch123>Maedhros: do you believe so? :p
14:07<frosch123>you never have more time "next year" :)
14:08<@Belugas>Avoid saying "trigger the trigger" in the USA
14:08<@Belugas>"more time"...
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14:08<frosch123>Belugas: daylength patch
14:11*Belugas looks for the RealLife repo to apply the patch
14:12<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxkZzVnkps0
14:13<frosch123>teaser for tt-forums?
14:13<@peter1138>more of a test
14:14<@peter1138>seeing as all the other grfs get the RA2 stuff wrong
14:22<@peter1138>hmm, should all work as the other bits are the same as for animation triggers
14:22<@peter1138>only need to test the PBS bit
14:22<V453000>I wonder how many times will it take me to realize that it really is a bad idea to compile a new version of a newgrf when the newgrf is loaded in a running unpaused game
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14:23<@peter1138>should be fine
14:23<@peter1138>the file isn't closed
14:25<V453000>well yeah but openttd will crash :D
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14:25<@peter1138>don't see why
14:25<@peter1138>unless the file is closed & reopened then it will still use the old one
14:26<frosch123>do windows file system support unlinking files?
14:26<@peter1138>right... where is path reservation done?
14:26<frosch123>or do the files remain in the directory till closure?
14:27<frosch123>likely in train_cmd
14:27<frosch123>maybe look for the level crossing
14:27<V453000>the old one isnt there, it gets overwritten upon compile :)
14:27<frosch123>it also has some trigger on reservation
14:27<@peter1138>V453000, windows?
14:27<V453000>yes
14:28<@peter1138>V453000, cos that's not how it works on other OSes
14:28<V453000>:D ok
14:28<V453000>I usually pause teh game and reload_newgrfs, but sometimes I forget :>
14:28<frosch123>pretty sure it also works like that on DOS
14:30<@peter1138>hmm
14:30<@peter1138>there's an UpdateLevelCrossing() in *UN*reserverailtrack :p
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14:31<@peter1138>ah, BarCrossing
14:32<@peter1138>hm, so...
14:32<@peter1138>Trigger should work on the whole platform
14:33<frosch123>the whole platform is reserved
14:33<@peter1138>yeah but tile-by-tile
14:33<frosch123>only trigger it on the north tile then?
14:33<frosch123>does it also trigger when a train enters a station without pbs?
14:33<frosch123>by reserving the tiles under the train
14:33<@peter1138>i train reserves platform (using PBS)
14:34<@peter1138>that's all it says
14:35<@peter1138>i suppose i could make it a tile-only trigger
14:37<frosch123>are the some random bits shared between the tiles of a platform trigger?
14:37<@peter1138>some are
14:37<frosch123>hmm likely wouldn't matter either
14:37<@peter1138>probably not
14:38<frosch123>but the non-pbs reservation should not trigger it then
14:38<frosch123>might look weird if the platform changes following the train upon entering :p
14:40<Supercheese>I dunno, people see the train and begin walking towards the point of entry as the train pulls into the station
14:40<Supercheese>could make sense
14:44<@peter1138>cock
14:44<@peter1138>that code is only called for NPF :p
14:45<@peter1138>or seems to be the case :S
14:48<@peter1138>and then it only reserves the first tile. what.
14:50<@peter1138>ReserveRailStationPlation... yeah
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14:55<@peter1138>well then i can use TA_PLATFORM still
14:58<fonsinchen>Hi
15:01<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationtrigger.diff
15:01<@peter1138>hi fonsinchen
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15:10<frosch123>is there no anim trigger for platform reservervation?
15:10<@peter1138>don't think so
15:10<@peter1138>that would be more useful, you'd've thought
15:10<DDR>OK, all is back to it's natural order. From only having 1/5th of NCG's profit last morning, I now have 5x his profit this morning.
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15:34<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RandomAction2#random-triggers <- makes sense?
15:37-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
15:37<drac_boy>hi
15:53-!-Lakie [~Lakie@cpc3-wals9-2-0-cust51.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: .]
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15:56<Wolf01>hello o/
15:56<drac_boy>how're you Wolf01?
15:57<Wolf01>tired, and you?
15:59<drac_boy>doing ok..just looking online a bit now :/
16:05<@peter1138>frosch123, yeah
16:06<@peter1138> 00 // first bit to rerandomise
16:06<@peter1138>oh, that's right, sorry
16:06<@peter1138>no triggers :D
16:06<@peter1138>not entirely sure if waiting triggers works
16:07<@peter1138>mainly because i'm not sure how it's meant to work
16:07<frosch123>well, they are only stored at the station
16:07<frosch123>so, if you mix parts with different triggers, it will likely not work
16:08<frosch123>so, multiple triggers for stations are kind of broken by design
16:08<frosch123>not as bad as triggers for the "related vehicle" though :p
16:08<@peter1138>i think so
16:08<@peter1138>it's all a bit messy
16:09<frosch123>random action is totally broken :)
16:09<@peter1138>as long as its deterministic, i don't care :D
16:09<frosch123>well, except for houses and industries
16:09<frosch123>csabo reinvented it or so :p
16:09<@peter1138>heh
16:09<frosch123>csaboka was the name right?
16:10<@peter1138>yeah, didn't he join us briefly before seeing it wasn't much better :p
16:11<frosch123>he made the grass density on tree tiles
16:11<@peter1138>what's that?
16:11<frosch123>kind of remade his first ttdp patch into his first ottd patch
16:12<frosch123>in ottd 0.5 trees always had 3/3 grass only
16:12<frosch123>in 0.6 they gained 0/3 .. 2/3
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16:13<@peter1138>ah
16:16<@peter1138>hmm, yeah, the reservation trigger is called for each tile when not reserved
16:16<@peter1138>i guess it *is* reserved
16:16<@peter1138>but...
16:20<Eddi|zuHause><V453000> well yeah but openttd will crash :D <-- i frequently have this problem as well. recompile grf, forget to reload_newgrfs, unpause => BAM!
16:20<V453000>exactly
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if i made a report on flyspray...
16:21<@peter1138>why would you?
16:21<frosch123>newer nml unlink before rewriting afaik
16:21<V453000>I didnt even dare :D I didnt consider it that unexpectedly broken
16:21<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: just increase your spritecache size
16:21<frosch123>and make sure all are loaded
16:22<frosch123>e.g. by clicking through all sprites in the alignment gui
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: because it's a crash!
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>no program should ever crash on anything that the user does
16:25<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationtrigger2.diff < version that won't trigger unreserved stations
16:26<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, i don't think changing data files underneath us counts
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: well if it disturbes newgrf development, it's rather serious
16:27<@peter1138>fix your oS
16:27<@peter1138>*OS
16:29<+michi_cc>peter1138: Doxygen for StationRandomTrigger and TriggerStationRandomisation is missing and has to be updated for TryReserveRailTrack, but otherwise patch looks nice.
16:29<@peter1138>oh right, doxygen again :p
16:38-!-Celestar_ [~vici@dslb-178-002-031-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
16:39<frosch123>hmm, mart3p, Celestar, Maedhros, ...
16:39<frosch123>is there some ottd reunion going on?
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16:51<@peter1138>tbh
16:51<@peter1138>me, even
16:52<frosch123>did the end of the world remind you what really matters in live? :p
16:52<@peter1138>:p
16:52<@peter1138>planetmaker, is motion_counter going to be updated?
16:53<NGC3982>You know what i hate?
16:53<NGC3982>When the damn towns don't change rating
16:53<NGC3982>Even when i plant the bloody Taiga forest around it.
16:54<frosch123>you got that the wrong way around; it's they who hate you
16:54<frosch123>anyway, it's only the first tree on a tile that matters
16:54<frosch123>so first bulldoze all trees in range of the town
16:54<frosch123>then replant
16:54<NGC3982>And that my personal inflation fuckup makes bribing impossible.
16:54-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:54<NGC3982>Seriosly? It's that easy?
16:55<frosch123>all game mechanics are simple if you know how to exploit them
16:55<frosch123>ottd is a _hard_ game for someone who plays for the first time
16:55*NGC3982 has been playing for years and still has no clue of this.
16:55<NGC3982>s/has/had
16:55<@planetmaker>peter1138, might or might not. But is there a real need for it? I'm sure it was a concious decision
16:56<frosch123>that rule applies to all games unless they are mainly affected by human opponents
16:56<@peter1138>well it's... incorrect!
16:56<@peter1138>and someone wanted a 3-cycle animation, which glitches with 0..15
16:56<Supercheese>eGRVTS uses a 3-frame animation
16:56<Supercheese>I was borrowing the sprites
16:56<Supercheese>was/am/will
16:57<NGC3982>frosch123: It only made it worse.
16:57<frosch123>usually you can always get it to "good" to build a station that way
16:57<NGC3982>It works at "Poor"
16:58<NGC3982>I can't get it past "Very poor"
16:58<@Terkhen>good night
16:59<Supercheese>the formula of bulldoze many trees then replant has always worked for me
17:00<NGC3982>How much do you bulldoze?
17:00<V453000>use magic dozer if you play with towns :) or use trees
17:00<Supercheese>more than enough :P
17:00<@planetmaker>well, I guess we could change motion_counter to return var (0x46 & 0xFFFFFF00) >> 8. But I'd like to talk at least with yexo or Hirundo about that
17:00<NGC3982>V453000: It's multiplayer.
17:00<V453000>trees it is :)
17:01<frosch123>start a new company, and make that one remove the trees
17:01<@planetmaker>I see the point that your usecase is kinda broken frequently, Supercheese - which certainly is not intended
17:01<frosch123>but don't tell anyone, i told you that
17:01<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/FSVGt.png
17:01<Supercheese>bulldoze more
17:01<NGC3982>frosch123: That's cheating. :P
17:01<NGC3982>More? Ok..
17:01<@planetmaker>dirty, bad, frosch123 ;-)
17:02<frosch123>NGC3982: at least a whole screen
17:02<frosch123>water sucks ofc, there are no trees
17:02<NGC3982>..
17:02<V453000>im going to ban frosch123 the moment he joins our server :>
17:02<NGC3982>Nothing happends.
17:02<V453000>k maybe not :)
17:02<frosch123>i never joined your public server :)
17:03<@planetmaker>:D
17:03<@planetmaker>V453000, his method won't work... he can't make a new company on the PS :D
17:03<V453000>we have more than just public server :)
17:03<V453000>true pm true :)
17:03<V453000>but ps usually has magic dozer when we use towns
17:03<V453000>so ye
17:04<NGC3982>PS?
17:04<V453000>public server
17:05<NGC3982>Magic bulldozer on a multiplayer server?
17:05<V453000>ever heard of cooperation? :)
17:05<NGC3982>Yes, and i actually joined once
17:05<NGC3982>And it was actually -your- game.
17:06<V453000>:)
17:06<NGC3982>"Who the hell built a bus station here?"
17:06<NGC3982>:D
17:06<frosch123>you got banned for building a bus station? :)
17:06<NGC3982>No, not banned. I joined a co-op thinking it was somethis completely different
17:07<NGC3982>They encouraged me to stay and watch, though.
17:07<Supercheese>I dunno about the motion_counter thing, it seems to work fine with eGRVTS, or at least no one has yet complained
17:07<NGC3982>If i remember correctly, i didnt. I was too embarrassed. :3
17:08<Supercheese>the 3-frame animated horses are nice :3
17:08<V453000>well there have to be -some- rules when you cooperate with others :) we have games where you can do literally anything too, though
17:08<NGC3982>hehe, yeah
17:08<NGC3982>Hehe*
17:08<V453000>also being embarassed is wrong :) no reason
17:09<Supercheese>I'd play multiplayer, but there's that pesky max-grf-limit
17:09<Supercheese>:P
17:09<NGC3982>My god
17:10<NGC3982>I just killed the server
17:10<Supercheese>really? :S
17:10<V453000>not our server I hope
17:10<NGC3982>My own
17:10<NGC3982>Dag nabbit
17:10<NGC3982>DDR: I'm sorry. I managed to kill the server :/.
17:10<@peter1138>ah
17:10<@peter1138>i forgot about cargo translation
17:12<@peter1138>would TranslateRefitMask() in newgrf.cpp do the job?
17:12<frosch123>i think so
17:12<frosch123>it works after reservation phase
17:12<frosch123>and stationprops are in activation
17:13<@peter1138>hmm
17:13<@peter1138>type B or type A... what
17:14<frosch123>ah, yeah, just call it for grf version 7
17:14<frosch123>keep it unchanged below
17:14<@peter1138>type B == untranslated?
17:14<frosch123>yes
17:14<frosch123>B is slot
17:14<frosch123>A is bit (translated if ctt present)
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17:16<frosch123>it's basically what GetCargoTranslation does when setting the last param to 'false'
17:17<frosch123>but that is actually a nop for grf version < 7
17:17<frosch123>and 'false' and 'true' are the same for grf version >= 7
17:19<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/stationtrigger3.diff < doxygenated and translationtabled
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: was that not grfv8?
17:22<@peter1138>"With GRF version 7 and above, the interpretation of bits changes. Instead of climate-dependent cargo slot numbers (type B), you have to set the bits of climate-independent cargo ID (type A)."
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>ah well... i know nothing :p
17:23<@planetmaker>technically the enum misses doxygen, also when it's pretty obvious
17:24<frosch123>+ TriggerStationAnimation(st, st->xy, SAT_TRAIN_LOADS); <- isn't the st->xy wrong there? isn't it a platform anim trigger as well?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>in order to understand recursion, you first need to understand recursion
17:24<@peter1138>frosch123, i think so as well
17:25<@peter1138>planetmaker, oh yeah :S
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17:28<@peter1138>frosch123, it should crash if st->xv isn't a rail station tile...
17:31<frosch123>should changing a shared bit mark the whole station dirty?
17:31<frosch123>hmm, makes no sense anyway
17:33<@peter1138>hmm, looks like SAT_CARGO_TAKEN was not done by me
17:33<@peter1138>which means it missed it :S
17:33<@peter1138>damn half-finished patches
17:33-!-Gruff [52012ef6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:33<@peter1138>*i missed it
17:35<Gruff>Any idea folks how I can get TTD to work on Windows 7.... I keep getting messages saying this system does not support full screen and then just a blank looking dos screen :(
17:35<@peter1138>hmm, i wonder if that blows up with overlong trains
17:35<Wolf01>Gruff, try dosbox or use OpenTTD instead
17:35<drac_boy>gruff you need the patch
17:36<frosch123>you assume he really means ttd? :)
17:36<frosch123>Gruff: try setting fullscreen_bpp to 32 in openttd.cfg
17:37<@peter1138>blank looking dos screen eh
17:37<Gruff>ok I tried open but wouldn't know what "patch" I would need and how all that works (getting old lol)
17:38<Gruff>yes Peter a blank dos screen and the annoying message :(
17:38<@planetmaker>Gruff, unless you try to start openttd, your issue is off-topic here :-)
17:38<@planetmaker>in the case of openttd, do you have like crash.log crash.dmp or so ?
17:39<frosch123>who said it crashed?
17:40<@planetmaker>no-one :-)
17:41<Gruff>I am so confused
17:42<@planetmaker>let's start easy: where did you get from the programme you like to start?
17:42<NGC3982>When playing with breakdowns, is there any reason other then estethics, using buoy's instead of ship depots?
17:42<@peter1138>interesting, seems turning around an overlong train now makes it leave the platform
17:42<@peter1138>so it still triggers on the right tile
17:43<frosch123>NGC3982: ship depots block the path for opponents
17:43<NGC3982>I see.
17:43<frosch123>peter1138: i think that always was the case
17:43<@planetmaker>or can you provide a screenshot, Gruff ?
17:43<frosch123>NGC3982: also some time ago ships always left depots towards south or so
17:43<NGC3982>Yes, i noticed.
17:44<@peter1138>frosch123, i'm sure it used to just turn the train around. and then cause crashes when v->tile wasn't a station tile
17:45<frosch123>night
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17:47<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD4oOe-8Bk8 < made a video of it :p
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17:49<NGC3982>haha
17:49<NGC3982>:D
17:49<Gruff>Screenshot?
17:49<NGC3982>Transformer Ferry
17:50<Gruff>Never mind I give up. Enjoy the game folks I used to love it. Take care and thanks for trying to help :)
17:50<@peter1138>Gruff, you give up easily
17:50<@planetmaker>well. if you can't answer any of our questions, we indeed can't help, I'm afraid
17:50<@peter1138>Gruff, if you get a DOS window, it sounds like you're trying to play good old original TTD
17:50<@planetmaker>we have no functional crystal balls
17:51<+glx>dos version can't run on 64 bits windows
17:51<@peter1138>Gruff, that isn't going to work on modern systems, so you should take a look at http://www.openttd.org/
17:51<@peter1138>Gruff, it's got a few more things, but i like to think the essence is still there
17:52<Wolf01>"a few" :D
17:52<+glx>and windows version can't run without ttdpatch since at least winXP IIRC
17:53<Gruff>Oh I will try that then Pete. Thanks
17:54<Gruff>I've been trying to get it to work for 2 days mind.... I'm not the best on a computer but I do love the game
17:55<+glx>very old games on modern OS is often problematic
17:55<@planetmaker>that's why I asked whether you run openttd or something else... :x
17:55<@planetmaker>I give up. Good night
17:55<Gruff>lol I wouldn't know
17:56<@planetmaker>who then would which programme *you* try to start?!
17:56<@planetmaker>who then would know where you got the programme from you try to start?!
17:56<@planetmaker>who then could make a screenshot of the empty window?!
17:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24904 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-01-10 22:56:49 UTC)
17:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r22746): "Train loads/unloads cargo" station animation triggers on individual platform
17:57<NGC3982>glx: Actually, i would say: Yes, it used to.
17:57<NGC3982>glx: But Windows 7 have proven to run old PC games like magic.
17:57<NGC3982>Or at least very easily fixed.
17:57*drac_boy is still waiting for someone to progress on updating that other openttd build with working dos network stacks
17:57<NGC3982>Not related to the discussion, that is.
17:57<drac_boy>^_^
17:57<Gruff>planet you sound like you just want to be rude. No need peter is a nice person that understands I'm not clued up on this computer talk.... or whatever.
17:58<Supercheese>derp
17:58<Gruff>Oh and by the way.... Pete I love you that link is working great :)
17:58<@planetmaker>...
17:58<Supercheese>"let's start easy: where did you get from the programme you like to start?"
17:58<Supercheese>how is that rude?
17:59<@planetmaker>first entry on ignore. One finally after a long time again
17:59<Supercheese>(also I don't think that question was ever given a response...)
17:59<@peter1138>Gruff, you're welcome :)
18:00<NGC3982>Hey i'm Gruff, i'm not so Gruff - Aaaans we're the Game Gruff's.
18:01<V453000>those new locks look terrible, sorry :(
18:01<NGC3982>Locks? :)
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18:01<+glx>new ?
18:01<@peter1138>i've not changed the looks!
18:02<NGC3982>peter1138: I love that "That's not meant to happen" video.
18:02<V453000>no but the way how the ship moves looks broken to me
18:02<NGC3982>Bouncy glitches and stuff
18:03<@peter1138>heh
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18:13<NGC3982>Eh
18:13<NGC3982>Wait what.
18:14<NGC3982>In the Sailing Ships NewGRF, did i just notice the boat rising a bit over water level when unloading goods?
18:14<Supercheese>As it gets loaded, it gets heavier and sinks down a pixel, no?
18:14<Supercheese>vice versa for unloaded
18:14<NGC3982>That is very nice.
18:14<NGC3982>Very noce.
18:14<NGC3982>-o+i.
18:14<Supercheese>FISH does that too
18:15<NGC3982>I love how you guys think of everything.
18:15<Supercheese>and perhaps even newships
18:15<NGC3982>At least sometimes.
18:15<NGC3982>:P
18:28<Wolf01>'night
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18:50<NGC3982>I just noticed how extreme a FIRS Coal>Metal>Eng.Sup>Coal system can be with boats.
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19:28<DDR>That sounded ominous.
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19:35<NGC3982>:D
19:35<NGC3982>Well, you can look at it first hand
19:36<DDR>It /looks/ ominous, too.
19:36<NGC3982>hehe
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19:58*Supercheese adds a horse & rider to Eyecandy road vehicles
19:59<NGC3982>:(
19:59<NGC3982>DDR: You damn Canadian.
20:00<NGC3982>Deprive me of my sleep like this
20:04<drac_boy>heh Supercheese do the horses have a warning triangle flag draped over the back to comply with "low speed road vehicle" laws? :P
20:04<Supercheese>No, they expire before those laws are enacted ;)
20:04<Supercheese>of course, you can enable 'vehicles never expire'
20:04<Supercheese>in which case, no :P
20:06<Supercheese>Currently I only have the horse, I need to draw the rider on
20:06<drac_boy>actually supercheese the law never expired
20:06<Supercheese>No, the horses expire
20:06<Supercheese>as in, are no longer available for purchase
20:06<drac_boy>anything that has to run on paved public road at low speed has to have the triangle warning
20:06<Supercheese>'purchase'
20:06<drac_boy>even in the 50's
20:06<Supercheese>they're free :P
20:06<Supercheese>These are currently set to expire sometime around 1930-1940
20:07<Supercheese>i.e. removed from purchase list
20:07<Supercheese>anyhow
20:07*Supercheese draws
20:07<Supercheese>The little Newstations people shall be of great inspiration
20:10<NGC3982>:o
20:11<Supercheese>blarg, problem is the horse is 3 px wide, and the Newstations people are 2px wide
20:11<Supercheese>cannot half-pixel ><
20:13<drac_boy>heh heh :P
20:13<DDR>Hey, guys, is cargo delivery rate calculated as distance between industries or distance between the station tiles where I picked it up and dropped it off?
20:14<Supercheese>Distance between Station Signs
20:14<Supercheese>strangely enough :S
20:14<DDR>Bizarre.
20:14<Supercheese>indeed
20:14<DDR>Excuse me while I go re-sign this station.
20:14<drac_boy>I never cared much for that aspect :)
20:14<Supercheese>ayup
20:14<Supercheese>once you know the game mechanics, exploits abound
20:15*Supercheese wonders if the station sign thing is mentioned on the wiki anywhere
20:15<Supercheese>Yep
20:16<Supercheese>http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Delivery_payment_rates
20:16<Supercheese>"Distance is measured between the name-labeled tiles of the stations, not from the industries or by vehicle distance traveled."
20:16<DDR>I was looking on the wiki page, but I missed that line.
20:17<DDR>Oh, interesting, so theoretically a diagonal train makes more money than a straight one.
20:18<Supercheese>all sorts of time-warpy stuff happens with diagonal trains
20:20<DDR>Second question, does cargo only start depreciating in value once you pick it up?
20:21<Supercheese>only while loaded in vehicles, yes
20:21<DDR>Nice.
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20:21<DDR>Third question: Does station rating have any impact on how much cargo there is to pick up, if there is no competitor?
20:22<drac_boy>ddr as long as its over 50% I doubt it
20:23<DDR>Thanks. That pretty much clears it up for me.
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20:28<Supercheese>Station rating determines how much goodies you get from industries/houses
20:28<Supercheese>If you have 100% rating, you get all the stoof
20:28<Supercheese>if you have less, less stoof fer you
20:29<Supercheese>how much of the goodies*
21:07<Supercheese>Holy cow
21:07<Supercheese>the horse & rider looks amazing, if I do say so myself
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22:35<Supercheese>Anyone can feel free to translate Eyecandy Road Vehicles http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56780&p=1061151#p1061151
22:35<Supercheese>Note that the current "English" is American English, and that British/Australian Englishes are valid translations
22:40<Supercheese>e.g. Mail truck --> Post truck
22:40<Supercheese>or "lorry"
22:40<Supercheese>etc.
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22:49<Supercheese>of course there's very few GMT -8 folks in here :P
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 11 00:00:56 2013