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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-12

---Logopened Sat Jan 12 00:00:58 2013
00:17<Supercheese>Wow, their method is much tidier, way less lines of code
00:17<Supercheese>way fewer*?
00:17<Supercheese>far fewer*
00:25<Supercheese>Wow, applying the same technique VAST Objects uses, I managed to shrink my code from 1728 lines to 494 lines, with identical functionality
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02:52<Supercheese>Any AIs out there that just build eyecandy aircraft and/or watercraft, like TownCars AI and StreetTraffic do for road vehicles?
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03:53-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:00<@Alberth>blyp
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04:16<Supercheese>Man, now we need a way for newobjects to be placed during map gen
04:16<Supercheese>Pikka filed a flyspray about that IIRC
04:16<Supercheese>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5424
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04:21<@Alberth>during map gen.... hmm, interesting :)
04:22<Supercheese>Yes, I'm going to release a test of my object set soon
04:23<Supercheese>having some placed at map gen would be very neat
04:24<@Alberth>how do you know when to stop generating such objects?
04:25*Supercheese shrugs
04:25<Supercheese>It's 1:30 AM here, I'm not entirely up for serious brainstorming
04:26<Supercheese>perhaps in the morning
04:27<Supercheese>Before that, though, there's a bug I'd like to see fixed sometime: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5441
04:27<Supercheese>Probably not too difficult to fix, I hope
04:32<@planetmaker>moin
04:32<Supercheese>Tidings
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04:39<@Alberth>hi planetmaker
04:39<@planetmaker>hello Alberth and Supercheese
04:40-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
04:40<Supercheese>and a Zuu too
04:40<Zuu>Hello
04:42<@planetmaker>hi Zuu
04:42<Zuu>Hello planetmaker :-)
04:58<@Terkhen>good morning
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05:05<Supercheese>'night all
05:06<@planetmaker>night Supercheese
05:18<@Terkhen>good night Supercheese
05:28<@peter1138>morning
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05:40<Wolf01>hello o/
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05:41<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
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05:54<@peter1138>someone seems pissed with goalscript goals :p
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06:00<andythenorth>moin
06:00<@peter1138>andythenorth
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06:01<andythenorth>I don't know jack
06:01<@peter1138>you'd rather fleetwood mac?
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06:10<drac_boy>hi
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06:17<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth, Wolf01, drac_boy :)
06:19<Zuu>peter1138: Do you mean the someone who wants more than 255 goals?
06:19<@peter1138>yea
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06:19<Zuu>Isn't the max 14 companies and not 16 as was used in the computation in that forum post?
06:20<@peter1138>15
06:20<Zuu>ok
06:21<@planetmaker>15 companies + server / script (=god)
06:22<Zuu>But anyway, (s)he is right that the documentation could state the limits and that some sitation might want more than 255 goals.
06:22<@planetmaker>hehe, yes. That was my reaction too "wtf? More than 255 goals? But yeah..."
06:23<Zuu>So with 15 companies, you have 14 competitors. So 14*15 goals if you want that each company should have one for each competitor.
06:23<@peter1138>the goalid is 16 so it could easily be increased
06:25<@peter1138>16 bits i mean
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06:31<andythenorth>quak
06:31<frosch123>moin
06:32<V453000>moo
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06:38<@peter1138>was someone trying to make cb36 depend on random bits?
06:40<V453000>cf 36 is power, I did
06:40<@peter1138>cb36 is lots of things
06:40<V453000>*if
06:41<V453000>hm :) I dont remember the numbers
06:44<frosch123>peter1138: someone tried to shoot himself into the head?
06:44<@peter1138>yeah
06:45<@peter1138>well, i think if you tried cb36 + random bits + triggers you'd be massively desyncing :p
06:45<frosch123>yup :)
06:45<frosch123>well, not massively, only on join
06:46<@peter1138>yeah
06:46<@peter1138>intermittent desyncs
06:46<@peter1138>...
06:46<@peter1138>i wonder if anyone *is* doing that... hehe
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07:23<__ln__>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20997144 too bad
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07:42<@peter1138>hmm
07:42<@peter1138>so i can't support custom station layouts in case they relying on random data, as there is no random data at this stage :S
07:42<@peter1138>good fun
07:43<andythenorth>what are you up to? o_O
07:43<@peter1138>bridges/stations
07:43<andythenorth>hrm
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07:43<andythenorth>how about stations that are bridges? :P
07:44<andythenorth>hrm
07:44<andythenorth>how about bridges with negative tile height? :o
07:45<frosch123>peter1138: maybe the idea to attach it to the spec instead of the gfx wasn't that bad :)
07:45<andythenorth>Zuu: can AI read newgrf parameters? (answering a forum question)
07:45<frosch123>no they cannot
07:45<Zuu>No
07:46<@peter1138>frosch123, yeah, but then you can't build over the detault station
07:47<@peter1138>(cos the large station is heoooooooge)
07:48<@peter1138>i can make this work with CB 24, but our friend randomaction2s thwart that
07:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r24908 /trunk/src (script/api/script_text.cpp strings.cpp) (2013-01-12 12:48:00 UTC)
07:48<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5419]: Allow GSs to pass negative integer string parameters (frosch123)
08:06<Flygon>You know what'd be bitchin'?
08:06<@peter1138>bitche
08:06<@peter1138>*s
08:06<Flygon>Stations over stations
08:06<@peter1138>bitches be bitchin
08:06*drac_boy shoves a lathed soap into flygon's mouth
08:06<drac_boy>mind your *** language :P heh
08:06<Flygon>drac_boy: You don't know where my mouth as been
08:07<Flygon>Though, obvious problem with stations-over-stations is if you have a station that goes the same direction on multiple levels...
08:08<Flygon>Rather than only having diagonal-in-seperate-directions crossover...
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: just rewrite station specs so they're more like objects instead of hacky "advanced tile layout"?
08:11<V453000>:D Flygon :D
08:11<Flygon>V453000: ?
08:11<V453000>stations over stations :D
08:11<Flygon>I'm not sure if you're finding my idea hilarious or accepting it seriouly
08:12<V453000>hillarious
08:12<V453000>im quite sure :)
08:12<Flygon>I'm being serious
08:12<drac_boy>V453000 theres many places where indeed platforms intersect each others (and no its not limited to tube stations)
08:12<V453000>this is a game...
08:12<drac_boy>or other times where eg there is a upper and lower platform (northeast usa corridor has a few...they call them "high island" obviously)
08:13<Flygon>Of course, 100% flexible rail over rail would be ideal, but I can't see people wanting to rewrite huge parts of OpenTTD
08:13<Flygon>drac_boy: Do Tram+Train examples count? :P
08:13<Flygon>Otherwise, there's plans to build just those stations here
08:14<Flygon>As in, to make two seperate lines share stations
08:14<V453000>a hacky black hole underground station which looks like a tunnel would be nice though
08:14<V453000>would fill your ideas as well
08:14<V453000>1 platform 1 tunnel, just like normal tunnels
08:15<Flygon>Oh, that patch
08:15<drac_boy>flygon theres been some cases where eg the terminal is actually the second floor of a building and part of first floor is taken up by semi-indoor bus/tram halt (other part turned over to shops/etc) ... and yes the rails were on thse elevated lines
08:15<drac_boy>still a few examples left on amtrak's route by now afaik
08:16<Flygon>drac_boy: Here, well... here, same thing happens, hahahahahahaha
08:16<@peter1138>and what about the ground floor?
08:16<Flygon>Actuaaaaalllly
08:16<Flygon>Flinders Street and Southern Cross have had several railway lines underneath railway lines
08:16<Flygon>And Southern Cross currently has a HUGE bus station under the railway station
08:17<V453000>none, it is in a tunnel :) doesnt need ground floor or any connection to what is above
08:17<Flygon>The underground railways were used for goods and mail transfers
08:17<V453000>some custom tunnel sprites would be handy though :)
08:17<Flygon>There also used to be a shooting range under Flinders Street
08:17<@peter1138>i was asking drac_boy
08:17<Flygon>Welcome to Australia
08:18<V453000>ah
08:18<V453000>:)
08:18<drac_boy>this is what I mean flygon http://www.bcoolidge.com/NYC Pix/The Chicagoan leaving Cleveland 12_67c.jpg ground level is visible more or less ... train is on elevation level 1 just coming out of the station shortly out of the photo .. and the highway that fly over the track is on elevation level 2 basically
08:19<Flygon>Ah, yeah
08:20<Flygon>That stuff happens here
08:20<Flygon>Constantly
08:20<@peter1138>hmm, i found some routing restriction patch
08:21<Flygon>Even moreso in Sydney, due to only having 2-3 level crossings across the whole network... so designing stations with no regard for roads makes some sense :P
08:21<drac_boy>flygon btw theres one small interesting thing...
08:23<drac_boy>when C&NW (passenger-minded railroad) started running not so many commuter trains .. there was one particular town where eg C&NW was on raised right of way but the local commuters was parallel on ground level with many half-intersection road crossings ... everyone cooperated together in moving the ground rails onto the elevated right of way .. and this in turn allowed some road widening at same time
08:24<drac_boy>even then some other places had to completely relocate their rails to outside of the town due to lack of gradeway anymore (yes...in some cases even express trains were crawling right down the middle of residental streets!)
08:24<Flygon>Oh geeze O_o
08:24<Flygon>Yeah, that sounds painful...
08:24<Flygon>Victorian Railways here did the same thing in the... 1860s
08:25<drac_boy>20+ years sure make a difference :) 1890 original rails laid on street ... 1936 its still there but trains are lot heavier and longer so ummm yeah
08:25<drac_boy>nothing to contrast it like a little 4-4-0 with three coaches verus a 2-8-2 with eleven heavyweight carriages :)
08:26<Flygon>They didn't complete a viaduct before aquiring the two private railways, so they did good transfers in the middle of the night (low traffic) by using a railway-grade tramway (eg. grooved rails, but everything else is railway grade) to go between Spencer Street/Southern Cross and Fllinders Street :P
08:26<Flygon>A town in Queensland has a mainline railway going down the middle of the street (in a road lane)
08:26<Flygon>The line's purpose?
08:27<Flygon>Interstate or long distance (Queensland is HUGE) freight
08:27<Flygon>Cue traffic disruptions due to 1-2 kilometer long freight train clogging up intersections :p
08:28<drac_boy>flygon btw Chicago for being a huge sprawl has some issue with having to route freights through large residental sections
08:28<Flygon>Also, anything with skinny tyres are screwed due to standard rails, not tramway rails :p
08:28<drac_boy>then again many of the routes dates the very early original day of Chicago :-s
08:28<Flygon>Ah, I'm familar with Chicago's street railways
08:28<Flygon>Seeing a train obey road traffic rules is sort of charming :p
08:29<oskari892>Flygon: Is there a video of them in YouTube?
08:29<Flygon>Yes
08:29<oskari892>Would like to see
08:29<Flygon>Uuu
08:29<Flygon>Uuuh*
08:29<Flygon>Lemme find it
08:29<drac_boy>flygon also its where they are starting to implent a lot of "undercut and cover" where eg the ground level rail is moved to just right underneath the ground surface and a road (or open air 'access' instead) is left on top
08:29<Flygon>...I said railway YouTube, not trams from when Roger Rabbit was a star
08:29<drac_boy>at least one instance of this thats already been done removed quite a LOT of non-signalled road crosscrossings
08:30<drac_boy>crisscrossing*
08:30<Flygon>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joc111-IDgA oskari892
08:31<Flygon>It's like a giant tram that never takes passengers :D
08:31<oskari892>Flygon: Thanks :)
08:32<Flygon>I'm baffled by one thing
08:32<Flygon>Two pantographs a carriage O_o
08:32<Flygon>Here, it's two pantographs for 3 carriages (one's a trailer)...
08:34<@peter1138>looks highly impractical
08:34<oskari892>Flygon: Video of freight train there?
08:34<Flygon>Uh
08:34<Flygon>Lemme find it
08:34<Flygon>Never tried to find videos of the Queensland freightliner
08:35<Flygon>Gah, forgot it's name...
08:35<Flygon>Was in North Queensland
08:36<Flygon>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_zaqTEr4Y
08:36<Flygon>oskari892
08:36<oskari892>Thx
08:37<Flygon>Oh, interesting
08:37<Flygon>It's also a passenger railwa
08:38<Flygon>I forgot that part
08:38<Flygon>But you can see why length is an issue :P
08:39<Flygon>It. Doesn't. End. @_@
08:40<oskari892>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS54Qu0G7HE Danish version
08:41<Flygon>...
08:42<oskari892>EMD Sounds :)
08:42<Flygon>And right below is some rather freaky 'Recommended for me's @_@
08:42<Flygon>What gauge is that, oskari892?
08:43<oskari892>Normal gauge
08:43<oskari892>As Danish do :)
08:44<Flygon>1435mm, then
08:44<oskari892>Yes
08:44<Flygon>At least you guys got your mess sorted out :p
08:44<Flygon>We have at least three different gauges here :p
08:44<Flygon>1600mm, 1435mm, and 762mm... though, the last is only used for tourist railways as of 1960ish
08:45<Flygon>Queensland has 1067mm and 1435mm, South Australia has 1067mm (historically), 1600mm, 1435mm, and some minor railways with 762mm... basically
08:46<Flygon>Huge huge huge huge mess in Australia :p
08:46<oskari892>We have 1524 in Finland...
08:46<oskari892>Unfortunately
08:46<Flygon>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QROnV9GCbuE So instead, pretty Diesel trains that look slower on video :P
08:47<Flygon>1524?
08:47<oskari892>Yes, 1524 mm
08:47<Flygon>Ouch
08:47<Flygon>I share the pain
08:47<oskari892>Russia has 1520
08:47<oskari892>mm
08:47<Flygon>DG rail with 1600mm is also near impossible
08:47<Flygon>80km/h for the BG side if there is
08:47<Flygon>4mm is barely any difference
08:48<oskari892>If we had 1435 mm normal gauge, we wouldn't be in "island"
08:48<Flygon>You get more variance with wooden sleepers
08:48<Flygon>Again, I know that pain :p
08:48<oskari892>Pain in the ass for new train companies
08:48<Flygon>Victoria is Australia's only real holdout in keeping 1600mm
08:48<Flygon>It's mauled freight operations, and been a historic pain for passengers
08:49<oskari892>Couldn't buy 1435 mm used stock from other european countries :P
08:49*drac_boy still likes 1000 but wouldn't comment
08:49<Flygon>But our network is so integrated and expansive, that it's too expensive to regauge...
08:49<oskari892>...without extensive mods for bogies and axles
08:49<Flygon>I fail to see the extensive mods
08:49<Flygon>Then again, things are designed differently there...
08:50<Flygon>Here, practically everything is designed to be regauged, as a matter of course
08:50<Flygon>Even steam locomotives have been designed for regauged (and even regauged regardless)
08:50<Flygon>(eg. SAR (South Australia) converting 1067mm locomotives to 1600mm because of wartime shortages)
08:51<Jasperthecat1>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0d7G19jEA4
08:51<Flygon>(still worked perfectly... probably would have resembled Brunel's 216...whatevermm steam loco's, though :p)
08:52<Flygon>Jasper: Quite slow for Australia's fastest train :p
08:52<Flygon>And the world's fastest NG train... until Japan finally breaks 210-220km/h
08:53<Flygon>I just want V/Line to throw caution into the wind and whack a VLocity out @ over 220km/h on the Geelong line just to 1-up Queensland :p
08:53<Flygon>Damned things are designed for 200km/h... suuuurely you won't blow up the transmission going faster :B
08:58<drac_boy>going off for bit now
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08:59<oskari892>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiwpC8kbRJ0&list=PL681C725D84AA6E42
08:59<oskari892>Flashing red traffic lights
09:00<Jasperthecat1>That's where i live, Indiana.
09:01<Flygon>Here, if traffic lights flash...
09:01<Flygon>...well, chaos
09:02<Flygon>God forbid there's trams involved
09:02<Jasperthecat1>Any videos in Bloomington?
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09:03<oskari892>Flygon, speaking of flashing traffic lights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH_PUXB5R2c&feature=youtu.be&t=3m28s
09:03<Flygon>http://melbourne.metblogs.com/archives/swanstonstreettrafficlight.jpg God forbid this flashes
09:03<oskari892>Traffic light disco :P
09:04<Flygon>http://uploads.static.vosizneias.com/2008/10/traficaust.jpg (the white arrow becomes a T-signal)
09:05<Flygon>Ehh
09:06<Flygon>oskari892, best traffic lights ever, in my opinion?
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09:06<Flygon>Can't find a vid
09:07<Flygon>http://cinemademerde.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full_movie_image/movie_image/Superman_III-walk%20dont%20walk.gif But this should be good for the savvy :)
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09:55<@peter1138>non-path signals should be an advanced option :p
09:59<V453000>lmfao
10:01<frosch123>maybe you can also attach it to the user name
10:02<frosch123>only block or only path depending on whether the username starts with v or not
10:03<@Alberth>perhaps use the domain he logs into as well :p
10:07<@planetmaker>pffft! ;-)
10:08<@peter1138>i'm kinda serious
10:08<@peter1138>they cause issues for noobies
10:09<frosch123>yup, advanced setting "pbs only", "both", "block only"
10:09<frosch123>but then it should not be a gui setting, but a game setting
10:09<frosch123>hmm, or maybe not
10:09<frosch123>might be troublesome for servers
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10:16<@Terkhen>making it as a game setting would raise hell in servers :P
10:16<@Terkhen>it should be a client side option that only affects the GUI
10:17<frosch123>basically more settings to the signal cycle setting
10:17<frosch123>"path only even in gui" and "block only even in gui"
10:20<@Terkhen>true, that should do it :P
10:22<+michi_cc>Maybe just a "show/hide pre-signals" is enough, the plain block signal is okay and has some aesthetic advantages.
10:25<frosch123>the difference between what is displayed in gui and what is cycled with ctrl makes these settings kind of hard :s
10:25<frosch123>obviously ctrl should be a subset of the gui
10:26<V453000>how about enhancing singal gui for basic and advanced
10:27<V453000>if you put presignals to advanced, noobies will see that they can take that later
10:29<V453000>honestly basic usage of presignals isnt hard, the descriptions in the gui are well written
10:30<V453000>so it really is just about being lazy y/n to read that and try, I think basic/advanced "info" is sufficient and rather easy fix to your issue
10:31<@peter1138>it's not hard, but path signals are superior
10:31<frosch123>hmm, maybe the cycle setting should be changed to "do not cycle between path and block signals"
10:31<V453000>not for everything, all signals have their usage
10:31<@peter1138>i didn't say for everything
10:32<frosch123>changing a block signal to a path signal via ctrl is kind of weird if it is set to "cycle path only"
10:32<V453000>path signals could be constructed by ctrl clicking frosch123, ctrl click to make a semaphore is never used anyway
10:32<@peter1138>the basic pre-signal layout is handled better by path signals
10:32<frosch123>V453000: i mean the ctrl click on already build signals
10:32<V453000>yes but it is a perfect opportunity to learn pre-signals, too
10:32<frosch123>and the adv. setting which controls what signals are being cycled by that
10:32<V453000>frosch123: I know, but then you need a quick option to build the other cycle group
10:33<frosch123>no why? what is the relation?
10:33<V453000>I thought you wanted to like cycle in block, or cycle in path
10:33<frosch123>i just said that it makes no sense if the setting is set to "path only" that it changes block to path
10:33<V453000>well yeah
10:34<frosch123>so the setting should have values "cycle through both" and "cycle blocks and cycle path"
10:34<V453000>I mean like having 2 cycles, <block>, <path>. Ctrl click on signal means cycle, as now. Ctrl click when building creates one of the 2 groups, while normal click the other group
10:34<frosch123>+ "separately" in the latter
10:34<V453000>yep
10:35<V453000>pretty much what I mean, just with the addition of control when constructing
10:35<V453000>see my point?
10:35<frosch123>so another setting for ctrl on build: "toggle semaphore/light", "toggle path/block"
10:36<V453000>no, scrap that imo
10:36<V453000>ctrl on build is currently useless
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10:36<drac_boy>hi
10:36<V453000>you usually want to build only one, or only the other on the whole network
10:36<V453000>that should be very sufficient to choose just in the gui
10:36<frosch123>no idea, i only play light
10:36<V453000>me too
10:36<drac_boy>V453000 what this about now?
10:36<frosch123>i do not even try to understand why someone might want to build a semaphore
10:37<drac_boy>oh
10:37<V453000>but if in whatever case someone wants to use semaphores, then he just switches to them
10:37<V453000>me neither, but you know ... :)
10:37*drac_boy always does semaphores except for some express or electric lines
10:37<V453000>either way, due to that I think ctrl+click on build could be utilized a lot better
10:37<drac_boy>cheaper and more visible
10:37<V453000>and with making ctrl+click building a path signal, would be a great step in the right direction I think
10:38<frosch123>"cheaper"?
10:38<@peter1138>there is no difference in cost
10:38<drac_boy>frosch123 yeah
10:41<V453000>I think basic block signal should be included in the path cycle btw
10:41<frosch123>V453000: there is currently the setting "Default signal type to use"
10:41<V453000>I know
10:42<frosch123>it can be "block signal", "path", "oneway path"
10:42<frosch123>what signal to build when pressing ctrl?
10:42<V453000>1way path imo
10:42<V453000>2way path is least used
10:42<V453000>and 2way path signals create major confusion for new players
10:42<V453000>becuase they seem being 1way visually
10:44<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2049/ <- is that the conclusion?
10:45<V453000>looks very elegant to me
10:46<@planetmaker>#3 sounds 'best' in this context
10:46<@planetmaker>as it basically only moves the place where the cycling is given as setting. And changes the GUI now at the same time, too
10:46<V453000>I think they are all at once pm
10:46<frosch123>so no fancy "include standard block in path cycle or gui"? :)
10:46<V453000>it is a detail frosch123, idk if it is the best suggestion
10:47<@peter1138>sheesh, i was only making an innocent comment :S
10:47<frosch123>peter1138: this is not tt-forums off-topic
10:47<frosch123>people read what you say
10:47<@peter1138>noob: "where have the signals gone?"
10:48<drac_boy>mouse user: where is the signal dialog?
10:48<frosch123>where have the diff settings gone?
10:48<drac_boy>:)
10:48<V453000>the block signal in the cycle, idk. it would have to be the 3rd cycle (on build - 1way PBS, 1 ctrlclick - 2way PBS, 2nd ctrlclick, block) sounds odd
10:48<@planetmaker>current users will learn. New users not confused. All win
10:48<@peter1138>i have a Vehicle*
10:48<@peter1138>how do get to gcache?
10:49<V453000>exactly pm :)
10:49<frosch123>isn't there some method in the vehicle?
10:49<frosch123>peter1138: GetGroundVehicleCache
10:50<frosch123>ctrl-cycling through normal block in path cycle makes no sense, since you cannot tell what comes after the normal block :)
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10:50<V453000>very true frosch123
10:50<frosch123>and gui it would only safe some space, but not make stuff easier
10:51<frosch123>if people can tell the difference between path and normal block, they can also get the presignals
10:52<V453000>sounds nice
10:53<drac_boy>frosch123 thats maybe messing up with stations a bit when people wonder why they can't make the train wait outside the junction? :->
10:54<@peter1138>drac_boy, eh?
10:54<V453000>didnt get that eitehr
10:54<V453000>either
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10:55<drac_boy>V453000 you know that one where you put the signal with small white boards on them at each platform for the station then the one with yellow board before the junction facing the station. (although mind you I've seen some cases where player got first part right but missed the second part tho...meh)
10:56<V453000>you mean people combine presignals with PBS
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10:56<@planetmaker>of course they try. Anything stupid which can be done, will be done
10:56<drac_boy>no..just presignal alone
10:56<@planetmaker>and exit signals are also put at station exits. Sensible or not :-)
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10:57<@peter1138>see, precisely why they should only be using pathsignals
10:57<V453000>truly various things happen :)
10:57<@planetmaker>signals are not easy. Yes, peter1138
10:57<@planetmaker>exactly :-)
10:57<V453000>that isnt an argument peter, people being dumb doesnt mean they cant be exposed to more advanced way :)
10:58<V453000>switching between them in gui settings is great though
10:58<@peter1138>in this case it's not more advanced
10:58<@peter1138>it's less efficient and more complex
10:58<V453000>it forces people to use brain
10:58<V453000>pbs doesnt
11:00<V453000>guess I should say requires instead of forces :)
11:01<@Terkhen>you say that as if it was an advantage for most people :P
11:01<@Terkhen>using the brain is overrated, and confusing :)
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11:02<V453000>"if any of following signals is green, be green" is not rocket science
11:02<@planetmaker>V453000, the difficulty is to understand "following" ;-)
11:02<V453000>that is true
11:03<@peter1138>and then they go and use an entry signal, 2 combo signals, and an exit signal for the route back out...
11:03<V453000>mhm :D
11:03<burtybob>Is there anyway to get more information about "received invalid packet type 0 from Bot Name"... All I sent was: packet type of admin join packet type
11:03<V453000>but they learn sooner or later none the less
11:03<frosch123>does it derail the discussion if i ask what shall be the default? :p "path", "block", "both" :p
11:03<V453000>perhaps we could look at the gui hint-strings if they could be made more obvious, but they felt comprehensible last time I checked
11:04<@peter1138>frosch123, no, that's easy, path ;p
11:04<burtybob>I agree with peter
11:04<V453000>I of course dont
11:04<@peter1138>i remember when the path signals patch removed all the other signal types :)
11:04<V453000>as you know
11:05<@peter1138>although i don't think it had non-passable signals then either
11:05<@peter1138>and some people are still waiting for non-safe-waiting point non-passable 'signals
11:06<@peter1138>'
11:06<V453000>I still think that behaviour of block signals is most intuitive for newcomers
11:07<V453000>where is a safe waiting spot and where isnt is a bit confusing at start
11:08<drac_boy>mm
11:10<V453000>are shown reserved paths default or not?
11:10<@planetmaker>not default
11:10<burtybob>I thought when I last insstalled vanilla it was set as on
11:10<V453000>well that explains the confusion about pbs
11:11<burtybob>Anyone know much about communicating with the Admin port?
11:11<V453000>block empty yes/no is clear logic, path empty yes/no without shown reserved paths not quite
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11:15<Zuu>perhaps make the show path a tri-state option with a middle option "show paths if path signals exist", which would enable showing reserved paths when there is at least one path signal.
11:15<Zuu>Although, I'm not really sure that will be good.
11:15<@planetmaker>burtybob, you better ask non-meta questions
11:15<burtybob>non-meta?
11:16<Zuu>@get 3
11:16<@DorpsGek>Zuu: Don't ask to ask, just ask
11:16<Zuu>Eg, let us know you question, and then maybe someone knows the answer.
11:17<V453000>Zuu: the show paths isnt exactly eyecandiful :) it isnt always nice to have it
11:17<burtybob>Is there anyway to get more information about "received invalid packet type 0 from Bot Name"... All I sent was: packet type of admin join packet type
11:17<V453000>im wondering if it would be wise to add that to the gui signal option as well :d but im also afraid if it wouldnt become too big
11:18<Zuu>Unless you are on a a small screen, the signal GUI is not very big.
11:19<Zuu>burtybob: You could lookup that error message in the OpenTTD code
11:19<V453000>indeed
11:19<burtybob>I tried it just the default for not matching any other admin packet but having an open tcp connection
11:20<V453000>and since it pretty much is the most important building gui, it is probably safe to add a few things to it even if it increases size ... perhaps a button "use semaphores", turning all signal icons into semaphores is also a good idea to save space?
11:20<V453000>frosch123: ^
11:21<burtybob>Sorry if the connection is closed..
11:21<burtybob>hmm think I may have an idea now, thanks :)
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11:24<@peter1138>people use the signal gui?
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11:28<drac_boy>I do all times peter1138, its the only place the mouse can find it anyway
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11:53<frosch123>V453000: reserved tracks should go transparency options
11:53<V453000>brilliant idea
11:53<frosch123>not new
11:54<V453000>but I absolutely agree with that :) indeed has nothing to do in signal gui
11:57<@peter1138>should be a removed, it's a debugging thing ;p
11:57<V453000>so you support people using pbs,, but blindly? :D That sounds pretty evil to me
12:01<@planetmaker>ah... but players want that regularily, I think
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12:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24909 trunk/src/strings.cpp (2013-01-12 17:20:31 UTC)
12:20<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Remove implicit bool -> integer conversion.
12:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24910 /trunk/src (strings.cpp table/strgen_tables.h) (2013-01-12 17:21:30 UTC)
12:21<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [strgen] Description of plural form 3 was incorrect.
12:29<@peter1138>urgh
12:29<@peter1138>i hate delving into pathfinders :p
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12:43<@peter1138>i need the vehicle in npf.cpp CanEnterTile()
12:43<@peter1138>not sure if it's available...
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12:49<@Alberth>hmm, using python3 may have been a bit too optimistic :p
12:49<@peter1138>hmm?
12:50<@Alberth>trying to make a web application, but the program fails under Python 3.2 while it runs with Python 2.7
12:51<@Alberth>despite claims that it support 2.5+ and 3.X :)
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13:01<@peter1138>ah
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13:16<@peter1138>hmm
13:16<@peter1138>guis
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24911 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-01-12 18:45:24 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 118 changes by logi
13:45<@DorpsGek>romanian - 9 changes by mariush
13:45<@DorpsGek>serbian - 2 changes by voodoo84
13:45<@DorpsGek>tamil - 5 changes by aswn
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13:59<MinchinWeb>I have a rather strange bug: I have two version of the same GRF. OpenTTD shows and loads only the newer version, except if I click on "see Readme", in which case it pulls up the readme from the older version. Suggestions?
14:00<frosch123>are both grfs inside a tar?
14:00<frosch123>do the tars have different names?
14:00<MinchinWeb>yes, but seperate tars
14:01<frosch123>hmm, actually the path inside the tar matters
14:01<frosch123>not the tar filename
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14:01<MinchinWeb>both tars are named something differen
14:01<MinchinWeb>different*
14:01<MinchinWeb>they both hold everything in a folder and that inside folder has the name name
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14:08<frosch123>bananas tars? and which?
14:08<MinchinWeb>homemade, on Windows with 7zip
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14:08<MinchinWeb>I'm trying to get everything working before uploading to Bananas
14:08<frosch123>ah, make sure the path inside the tar is different hten
14:09<frosch123>i.e. always include a directory in the tar, which contains the version number or similar
14:09<frosch123>ottd only sees the filename in the tar, not the tarfilename
14:09<frosch123>so, if the tars have the same structure inside, ottd cannot distinguish them
14:10<frosch123>though maybe we should fix that somewhen... since the old 32bpp stuff is gone there is no reason for it anymore
14:11<frosch123>(i believe)
14:11<@planetmaker>oh, that was the reason?
14:11<MinchinWeb>well, renaming the internal folder seems to have done the trick
14:11<MinchinWeb>Thanks!!
14:11<frosch123>planetmaker: yeah, the weird "sprites" directory :)
14:12<@planetmaker>omg... yes, then we should rather remove that...
14:12<MinchinWeb>(although it does like strange behaviour if you don't know the history)
14:12<@planetmaker>MinchinWeb, without doubt, yes, it's confusing in these cases
14:12<frosch123>planetmaker: i am not sure about obg, obs and obm, and their paths
14:12<frosch123>though
14:13<frosch123>hmm.. but basesets from bananas work.. so there should be no issue
14:24<@peter1138>in a Cmd, is tile guaranteed to be valid?
14:24<frosch123>yes
14:25<frosch123>if (tile != 0 && (tile >= MapSize() || (!IsValidTile(tile) && (flags & DC_ALL_TILES) == 0))) return CMD_ERROR; <- to be precise :)
14:26<@peter1138>cool
14:26<@peter1138>updating an old patch which includes IsValidTile
14:26<@peter1138>and i thought i remember somethign changing there
14:28<MinchinWeb>frosh123: did you see my update on this issue? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5408#comment11813
14:28<MinchinWeb>I have hope that it might be an easy fix
14:29<frosch123>yes, it was on my list of things to do last weekend :)
14:29<MinchinWeb>:)
14:30<MinchinWeb>I think I spent two days trying to figure out what was wrong, only to discover it was the wrong line
14:30<MinchinWeb>thanks for keeping on top of it
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15:08<@peter1138>hmm, so updating a gui
15:08<@peter1138>from old style
15:09<frosch123>rewrite :p
15:10<frosch123>how "old style" though?
15:10<frosch123>pre-nested or even pre-window class?
15:10<@peter1138>pre-window class
15:11<frosch123>:)
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15:15<drac_boy>hi
15:16<Supercheese>Tidings
15:16<Snail>hi
15:17*Supercheese wonders if "tidings" can even be used as a greeting like that...
15:17<Sacro>good tidings
15:17<Supercheese>the dictionary says it means "news; information"
15:17<Supercheese>Good news
15:18<Supercheese>... well, it sounds cool :P
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15:23<Markk>Tidning is "newspaper", tidnings can't really be used alone, should be used like "tidningsutdelare" (newspaper deliverer) or "tidningshållare" (newspaper stand).
15:24<Supercheese>Maybe I should just stick to Latin
15:24<Supercheese>Salve, amice
15:24<Markk>Swedish is quite fucked up.
15:25<drac_boy>btw just wondering about it but...
15:26<drac_boy>if you compile openttd without libpng on linux..that only leaves pcx alone for screenshots right?
15:27<Markk>Supercheese: As a greeting, you can use "Hej" (Hi), "God dag" (Good day, but in a quite formal way, it's not really used in daily speech anymore) or "Hallå" (Hello, but that is mostly used as a general greeting when you come in to a room, and usually not for one person).
15:27<Markk>Supercheese: So the one I would recommend is "Hej".
15:27<Markk>Supercheese: Where did you get tidnings from?
15:27<Supercheese>English...
15:28<Supercheese>"I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be for all people"
15:28<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
15:28<Markk>oh
15:28<Markk>:D
15:28<Supercheese>:D
15:28<Markk>I thought you typed "tidnings" and not "tidings".
15:28<Markk>I'm sorry for the confusing, mate. :)
15:28<Supercheese>Understandable, since the words seem to have the same definition
15:29<Supercheese>news / that which contains news
15:29<Markk>Ah
15:31<andythenorth>hmm
15:31<andythenorth>words
15:33<Supercheese>I like "word" in Spanish, "Palabra"
15:33<Supercheese>"for the tongue"
15:33<Supercheese>or is it "lip"
15:33<Supercheese>yes, "for the lip"
15:33-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:35<Supercheese>or plural, "for the lips"
15:35<Markk>Anyone from Ireland here?
15:35-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:35<Markk>Real Ireland, RoI, not NI.
15:38-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
15:40*andythenorth writes no code
15:40<MinchinWeb>I have an Irish passport, but have never been there :(
15:41<Supercheese>No code, eh? NoAI or NoGo? :P
15:42<Markk>MinchinWeb: How come?
15:43<MinchinWeb>I have Irish citizenship, but wasn't born there
15:43<Markk>ah
15:43<Markk>Where are you living?
15:43<MinchinWeb>Canada
15:43<MinchinWeb>and the far side from Ireland
15:46<Markk>ah
15:46<Markk>Nice
15:46<Markk>No idea to go to Ireland then mate.
15:46<MinchinWeb>you?
15:46<Markk>You live in a perfectly fine country as it is
15:46<Markk>I wanna go to Canada some day.
15:47<MinchinWeb>where do you live?
15:47<Markk>Sweden.
15:47<Supercheese>long trip
15:47<Markk>Canada and Sweden is quite similar in many things.
15:47<Markk>We're both normal and healthy countries.
15:47<MinchinWeb>ture :)
15:47<MinchinWeb>are you far enough north to see the Northern Lights?
15:47<Markk>Not like USA.
15:48<Markk>We have that down here as well.
15:48<MinchinWeb>sweet
15:48<Markk>But not as much as in northen Sweden.
15:48<Markk>I live down in Stockholm.
15:48<Markk>Quite far south.
15:49<MinchinWeb>you can see them here on the right night if you can get away from the city lights; absolutly gorgeous
15:49<Markk>Nice
15:49<MinchinWeb>I plan on visiting Ireland one day, just haven't finalized the plans yet
15:50<Markk>Okey :)
15:50<Markk>I lived there for a while.
15:50<Zuu>I spent 10 weeks in the western part of Canada about 3 years ago.
15:50<MinchinWeb>both sides of the family come from there (both sides actaully managed to own the same house somehow 100 years apart)
15:50<Markk>haha
15:50<Markk>cool
15:50<MinchinWeb>Zuu: Vancouver?
15:50<Zuu>Yep
15:50<Markk>I learned to appreciate Sweden quite a lot during the time I lived in RoI.
15:51<Zuu>THat was my base location although I also made a weekend trip to Calgary and Sasaskatoon.
15:51<MinchinWeb>Zuu: what did you think of the flat paraire?
15:51<MinchinWeb>I have trouble explaining it to people and having them understand just how flat it can be
15:52<frosch123>as flat as a 2kx2k map on "very flat"?
15:52<MinchinWeb>yeah
15:53<frosch123>must be boring to build railroad there
15:53<Zuu>MinchinWeb: It was flat. Was going by a friend on the highway north of Saskatoon.
15:54<MinchinWeb>frosh123: and no trees either
15:55<MinchinWeb>actaully, the railroad history is fascinating here. Basically they built the railways first and the railway's plan to stay in business was to settle the plains and then haul grain out and farm supplies in
15:56<Zuu>I wanted to take a bus from Vancouver to Calgary that took all day just to get a better idea of the country than going by aircraft, but didn't was motivated enough to get up that early in the morning.
15:57<MinchinWeb>you're daring to consider the Greyhound (the intercity bus) ...it takes forever
15:57<Rubidium>it's better than VIA ;)
15:58<MinchinWeb>VIA doesn't even connect Calgary and Vancouver!
15:58<Rubidium>but yes... Calgary - Vancouver is a long way, especially if you go via Jasper
15:58<MinchinWeb>they say VIA takes longer to go across the prairies now than it did when the first built the line!
15:59<andythenorth>Vancouver - Calgary is a couple-day trip, or at least when I did it
16:00<MinchinWeb>yeah. Vancouver - Calgary is ~10 hours in the car driving (which is the fastest way if you don't want to fly)
16:01<drac_boy>thats probably because its easier to get business selling tourist-like sleeper rather than a daily train
16:01<drac_boy>at one point during gov cash crunch there was only 3 transcontinental trains per week...so much better these days >_<
16:02<MinchinWeb>drac_boy, have you ever riden VIA?
16:02<Rubidium>andythenorth: it's only like 15-16 hours ;)
16:02<MinchinWeb>out west here, the prices makes it to expensive for anything more than a luxury holiday
16:02<Rubidium>by bus
16:04<MinchinWeb>I had a friend ride the bus one time from Cleveland to Edmonton. I think it took him 4 days.
16:05<drac_boy>MinchinWeb yeah I've gone VIA too many times to count
16:06<drac_boy>but never tried centeral canada yet tho
16:07<Rubidium>MinchinWeb: then he must have slept on the bus
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16:07<MinchinWeb>yup, Greyhound does overnight runs like that
16:09<Rubidium>11 hours is already too long on those busses
16:09<Rubidium>although... they're more comfortable when they are mostly empty instead of fully packed
16:10<MinchinWeb>sometimes the routes are crazy: if you try and take the bus from Edmonton to Salt Lake, they send you via Vancover and it's ~44 hours
16:10<MinchinWeb>you can drive that in ~17 hours
16:14<Rubidium>MinchinWeb: crazy? They just have no connection from Calgary to the US
16:14<MinchinWeb>nothing across Montana
16:14<MinchinWeb>so there's a gap between Leftbridge and Idaho Falls
16:16<Rubidium>MinchinWeb: more Lethbridge to Butte
16:17<Rubidium>there is a bus from Salt Lake City to Butte (although maybe not Greyhound, but Greyhound's site shows it)
16:18<Rubidium>though 50 hours might be a bit long
16:18<MinchinWeb>I see that... but there's still no way I'm walking from Leftbridge to Butte :)
16:19<Rubidium>it's only twice as long by foot than by bus
16:22<Rubidium>not that the route when going from Edmonton to Salt Lake City by plane is any less "crazy"
16:22<andythenorth>bye
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16:22<MinchinWeb>I know it
16:22<MinchinWeb>they used to have direct flights - 2 1/2 hours
16:23<MinchinWeb>last time I looked up a flight between the two, it went through Seattle and Long Beach
16:23<MinchinWeb>~ 17 hours travel time
16:24<Rubidium>I'm seeing flights with just one transfer; Seattle, Phoenix, Denver, Chicage or Minneapolis
16:25<MinchinWeb>look for something in the next week to come up with some crazier options :)
16:36<Kitty>why is it passengers to oil rigs are so hard to make profitable?
16:36<drac_boy>kitty because its not normally meant to be a sole traffic method I suspect :)
16:38<Supercheese>Because helicopters are slow and small?
16:39<drac_boy>HEH :)
16:39<+michi_cc>Try US Air Vancouver-New Orleans next week. You can fly Vancouver - Phoenix - Dallas/Fort Worth - Charlotte - New Orleans if you want :p
16:40<MinchinWeb>at least that's mostly all in the same direction :)
16:40<frosch123>Kitty: it's not meant to be profitable; it's meant to be cool
16:41<frosch123>who does pax transport with helicopters?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i did that
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>on some distances it's easier to do than planes, because they block less on takeoff/landing
16:52<Kitty>bloody hell, this chopper service is actually being profitable
16:52<Supercheese>Passenger transport is best done with zeppelins
16:53<Supercheese>Lots and lots of zeppelins :D
16:53<Kitty>lol
16:53<Kitty>I have a farm being served by hover craft
16:53<Kitty>profitably
16:53<Supercheese>Make sure you have enough helium first ;)
16:53<frosch123>helium is for kids
16:54<frosch123>real zeppelins use hydrogen
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>oil transport with zeppelins :)
16:54<Supercheese>Hydrogen only gives, what, 8% more lift
16:54<Kitty>I have done a profitable coal run with zeplins
16:54<Kitty>helium is bloody expensive
16:54<Supercheese>but 99.9% less explosive flammability :P
16:54<Kitty>hydrogen is cheap
16:54<Supercheese>money cheat :D
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17:18*peter1138 mumbles about helium booleans being given away when helium is pretty precious
17:18<@peter1138>...
17:18<@peter1138>balloons
17:18<@peter1138>not booleans :S
17:19<Supercheese>Helium booleans :D
17:29<drac_boy>hmm guess I may be right about the libpng but .. doesn't seen to be any offical answer to this :/
17:31<@peter1138>what?
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17:32<frosch123>night
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18:05<burtybob>When connecting to the admin port what order does it do things? Does it check the password then packettype or packettype then password?
18:06<burtybob>I would say type then password but if that was the case I should get "invalid packet type 0" when I use wrong password as well
18:07<xQR>that's what i would expect, but never tried
18:07<xQR>why is it important anyway?
18:08<@peter1138>not sure what you're asking
18:09<burtybob>When connecting and sending the admin_join packet which is packet type 0 the console (OpenTTDs one for dedicated server) gives me "invalid packet type 0". HOWEVER if I use a password that is wrong then it says "the admin made an error and has been disconnected. reason: wrong password"
18:10<@planetmaker>burtybob, first connection is established. Then admin script has a certain timeout time to authorize itself via pw
18:11<burtybob>Which is 10 seconds, if you don't authorize within that time then it gives a third response of "admin did not send authorisation within 10seconds"
18:11<@planetmaker>And connection is terminated
18:12<burtybob>Yes but I do send correct password and I get "invalid packettype 0" when I've sent the admin_join packet which corresponds to 0
18:12-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:15<@Terkhen>good night
18:15<@planetmaker>uhm... the ADMIN_PACKAGE_SERVER_WELCOME is sent to the admin, no? Not vice versa
18:15<burtybob>server_welcome is sent TO the admin after reception of ADMIN_JOIN
18:15<@peter1138>invalid packet type 0 means you're being disconnected
18:16<@peter1138>possibly
18:16<@planetmaker>burtybob, did you try to run openttd with -d admin=1?
18:16<burtybob>What does that param do?
18:17<@planetmaker>do you then get a message like [admin] bhlah (v2349049059) has connected
18:17<@planetmaker>debug output
18:17<@planetmaker>related to admin port processing
18:17<@planetmaker>maybe even level 3
18:18<@planetmaker>but 1 should suffice for a start
18:18<burtybob>When trying to run with "-d admin=1" I get unknown debug level :S
18:18<burtybob>Version 1.2.3
18:19<@planetmaker>sorry net=1
18:20<burtybob>trying now
18:22<drac_boy>peter1138 btw about that 'what?' you asked before...it was because I was wondering about if openttd indeed only takes pcx screenshots when its compiled without libpng
18:22<drac_boy>but meh :)
18:23<@peter1138>you dind't ask that
18:23<@peter1138>but no
18:23<@peter1138>pcx & bmp
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18:24<burtybob>With both net=1 and net=3 I get no further information :S
18:26<drac_boy>oh right I forgot about that bastard bmp one...rarely ever touched that format
18:26<drac_boy>thanks anyway
18:26<xQR>ADMIN_PACKAGE_SERVER_WELCOME comes later in the process
18:26<@planetmaker>neither the not authorized within XXX seconds nor ... has disconnected?
18:26<xQR>first thing you do is connect and then send your ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN packet
18:26<xQR>with password and the name of your client and its version
18:26<@peter1138>drac_boy, oh wow, you actually asked the question 2 hours before that comment
18:27<@peter1138>drac_boy, clearly ignoring all the conversations in between
18:28<@peter1138>btw
18:28<@peter1138>i hate gui design :S
18:28<burtybob>xQR: That is what I do. Connect then build the ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN, send that and then OpenTTD throws the weird error thing that I'm gettting :/
18:29<xQR>has it ever worked for you?
18:29<xQR>it could also mean your packet is malformed
18:29<drac_boy>peter1138 it was 50 minutes btw .. and most of that was taken up by supper :P
18:29<@planetmaker>burtybob, you NEED to get an [admin] XXX (vYYY) has connected. Or you never got a valid connection
18:30<@planetmaker>with the net=1 debugging
18:30<@peter1138>20:26 -> 22:29
18:30<@peter1138>looks like 2 hours to me
18:31<xQR>burtybob either that first packet is correct or not, if you get errors something with your packet is wrong
18:31<burtybob>planetmaker: I get "[admin] 'BOT NAME' <BOT VERSION> has connected" then "[tcp/admin] received invalid packet type 0 from 'BOT NAME' <BOT VERSION>
18:32<xQR>so the "has connected" happens first? this sounds like you are sending the JOIN packet twice
18:33<xQR>does the "BOT NAME" and "BOT VERSION" come from you, is it what you are sending with your packet?
18:33<burtybob>Yeah, if I uncomment the line that is writing to the stream then I get the admin did not authorise within 10seconds. Yes the bot name and bot version are coming from what I've set
18:34<drac_boy>peter1138 dunno whats wrong with your clock but its only been 17:32 vs 18:26 .. or did you mean the original question?
18:34<xQR>btw you were the guy asking me about xShunter earlier, right?
18:34<xQR>name was just "burty"
18:34<@planetmaker>I really need to sleep. But I trust that xor will work it out with you :-)
18:34<xQR>haha
18:34<xQR>we'll see :P
18:34<@planetmaker>g'night
18:34<xQR>nighties
18:34<drac_boy>xshunter sounds like an interesting name :)
18:35<@peter1138>drac_boy, obviously, i said your question, not when you went afk
18:35<burtybob>xQR: I was
18:36<burtybob>My window closed and I couldn't remember the web address to get back :/
18:36<xQR>haha
18:36<xQR>thought something like that
18:36<xQR>it was weird
18:36<xQR>because i answered "yes" and 30 seconds later you just left
18:36<xQR>:P
18:37<@peter1138>web address?
18:37<xQR>anyway, data from your packet seems to arrive if it is shown on the connect message
18:37<xQR>i begin to think maybe the size you specify for your packet is wrong
18:37<xQR>e.g. it is too small and some ending 0 bytes are treated as the beginning of a new packet afterwards
18:38<burtybob>I've got it set to 1460 which is the same as JOAN sets theirs
18:38<xQR>?
18:38<burtybob>Java OpenTTD Admin Library
18:38<xQR>the size should be what the size of your packet really is
18:39<xQR>if your client name and password etc. together is only 100 bytes you shouldn't tell OpenTTD your packet would be 1460 bytes long
18:39<xQR>this will definitely lead to problems ;)
18:39<burtybob>I'll go look in to that now :)
18:39<xQR>i'm afraid i don't know that library
18:40<xQR>are you building the packet on byte level yourself or does the library do it?
18:40<@peter1138>howwwwwwwwwwwwwwww do i make a gui
18:41<@peter1138>i can't visual nested widgets :p
18:41<@peter1138>*visualise
18:46<burtybob>I'm using the library function in another place but I'm guessing that I've messed up when I've moved it somehow. I'll get back to it tomorrow morning when I've had some sleep. Thanks for all the help :)
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19:02<burtybob>xQr: You still here?
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19:15<xQR>lol
19:15<xQR>apparently he couldn't sleep :P
19:17<drac_boy>heh
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19:22<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki :) for a start
19:30<drac_boy>heh nice V453000
19:31<V453000>will be nicer, mainly information now :) but thanls
19:31<V453000>ks
19:31<V453000>.. :)
19:33<drac_boy>heh
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19:57<Superuser>hey all just wondering are there any autistic people in here (Asperger's counts as autism too)?
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20:00<Wolf01>'night all
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20:02<longbyte1>Hi
20:02<longbyte1>How do I upgrade an airport without disrupting airplane traffic?
20:02<longbyte1>And are the planes just going to keep circling and not just crash onto the ground?
20:03<longbyte1>I just don't want the planes' orders to get cleared... >.<
20:05-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []
20:05<Superuser>so are there any autistic people in here??
20:08<longbyte1>don't think so, why do you ask?
20:08<Superuser>my brother said that approximately 40% of the people that play ottd suffer from some form of autism
20:09<FLHerne>Superuser: Seems improbable
20:10<FLHerne>64% of statistics are arbitrarily invented, including this one ;-)
20:14<longbyte1>How do I automatically rebuy trucks when they are service life
20:14<longbyte1>age*
20:15<longbyte1>over*
20:18<longbyte1>can anyone answer my question?
20:20<@planetmaker>there's autorenew (to same model) and autoreplace (to other model)
20:20<@planetmaker>obviously autorenew doesn't work when the model is no longer available
20:20<@planetmaker>you can prevent vehicle models expiring by setting vehicles never expire in adv. settings
20:21<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoreplace and http://wiki.openttd.org/Autorenew#Autorenew
20:30<longbyte1>ok
20:30<longbyte1>second, how do I upgrade a busy airport?
20:30<@planetmaker>destroy & rebuild quickly
20:31<@planetmaker>be sure to be allowed to build
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: besides that nobody in here actually plays the game... studies have shown that "geeks" or "hackers" are not more likely to have aspergers than any other group of people. instead "intense world syndrome", which is practically the opposite of aspergers is more common
20:31<@planetmaker>or you'll be left w/o airport, old and new
20:32<FLHerne>Is that 'close airports' patch in trunk yet?
20:32<@planetmaker>iirc yes
20:32<V453000>better connect the old airport to a train station or any other station
20:32<V453000>so you dont lose the airport for good just in case something goes wrong >]
20:32<FLHerne>I remember one of those ones was (overbuild or close), but not which :P
20:32<@planetmaker>overbuilding is not there
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: a.sl
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>b
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>brrr
20:33<@planetmaker>cttt
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: also, tell your brother he's an insensitive prejudicial person...
20:34<@planetmaker>:-)
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: weren't you going to bed two hours ago? :p
20:36<@planetmaker>yes...
20:37<@planetmaker>can't sleep :D
20:39<@planetmaker>actually ... I did that. I just do not sleep yet ;-)
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>hm... looks like it snowed a little bit
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20:53<xQR>lol planetmaker that was a short sleeping session :)
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>"this vehicle had to be regauged from 'italian meter gauge' (950mm) to 1000mm"
20:54<Sacro>those crazy italians
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>err... who said we europeans had our gauges "in order"? :p
20:54<@planetmaker>lol. "Italian metre" sounds... weired
20:55<@planetmaker>5% "protection fee" :D
20:55<xQR>:D
21:00<Flygon>Eddi: It's more in order than Australia
21:01<Flygon>You only have three major gauges, Spanish, Russian, and Standard
21:01<Flygon>And they're all self-contained
21:04<Flygon>Here... well
21:04<Flygon>Gaugeception isn't unheard of
21:04<Flygon>There's 752mm, 1067mm, 1435mm, 1600mm railways...
21:04<Flygon>Those're the four major ones
21:04<Flygon>752mm is mostly self-contained, though
21:05<Flygon>1435 and 1600 overlap a lot... impossible to make good DG lines with them
21:06<Flygon>We've have had triple gauge railways
21:06<Flygon>No quadruple gauge, though
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: we also have 1000mm, 900mm, 760mm, 750mm, ...
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: in early railway times there was also a badian gauge 1600mm and a dutch gauge 2000mm
21:09<Flygon>Annnnd I gotta go
21:09<Flygon>Mum's dragging me out, I hate the backyard >_>
21:10<Flygon>Also, 760mm, 752mm, and 750mm are compatible :P
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>depends on how much of a buffer you have
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>if you're already at the low end of the buffer for 750, then you might get in trouble on 760
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21:31<V453000>I suggest worldwide protest against time
21:32<V453000>it cant be 3:33 again
21:32<V453000>..
21:38<Eddi|zuHause>"worldwide time protesting day: stop time for 15 minutes"... except nobody will know when the 15 minutes are over, since time is stopped :p
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22:38<longbyte1>what's the fastest car in openttd?
22:38<longbyte1>or truck or bus or land vehicle with wheels
22:39<+glx>depends on newgrf used
22:40<longbyte1>vanilla
22:41<longbyte1>I believe
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22:42<longbyte1>how do I stimulate the production of an industry
22:43<longbyte1>I have a bunch of trucks demanding lumber, but the production isn't adapted to the demand
22:45<Pinkbeast>Serve it well for some time.
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22:59<Supercheese>You need to increase station rating to get more cargo
22:59<Supercheese>http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating
22:59<longbyte1>gah, turning electric railroad to monorail is not like rail to electric rail
22:59<Supercheese>Correct, unless using special newgrfs
22:59<longbyte1>no diesel monorail trains
22:59<longbyte1>lol
23:00<Pinkbeast>And why not? The whole railtypes thing is a mess.
23:06<Supercheese>Time for more pixel pushing... making graphics takes orders of magnitude longer than coding ><
23:08<longbyte1>how do I reserve a specific truck depot for dropoffs and another for pickup
23:08<Supercheese>truck station you mean?
23:09<Pinkbeast>Make two stations.
23:09<Supercheese>Yes, that
23:12<longbyte1>make two stations, one that transports the goods from station 1 to station 2, the rest of the trucks pick up from station 2
23:12<longbyte1>wouldn't transfer grinding be cheating?
23:14<Pinkbeast>I thought this was an industry; drop off cargo X, pick up cargo Y.
23:15<Pinkbeast>If not; route the dropoff trucks via waypoint X and pickup via waypoint Y.
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 13 00:00:58 2013