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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-14

---Logopened Mon Jan 14 00:00:00 2013
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00:29<Nat_aS>I think it would be cool to have office buildings that you could build
00:29<Nat_aS>that would either reduce operating costs by a fraction, or slowly improve the opinion of the nearest town
00:29<Nat_aS>and cost upkeep themselves
00:30<Nat_aS>the first would be priced so that there would be an ideal amount of office buildings depending on how big your company is
00:30<Supercheese>all of those things are possible, you just have to much around in the source code
00:30<Supercheese>muck*
00:30<Nat_aS>and the second would be similar in cost to repeated tree planting, just more streamlined
00:31<Nat_aS>maybe another which improves station raitings
00:33<Nat_aS>non track station buildings would be cool
00:33<Nat_aS>ones that have mechanical features rather than just cosmetic ones that is
00:33<Supercheese>station ratings are already controllable by grf
00:33<Nat_aS>wherehouses, hotells, offices
00:35<Nat_aS>wherehouses and hotells would raisestation raitings, but cost upkeep, you build them if you have lots of cargo and don't want it wasted, otherwise they are a waste of money
00:35<Supercheese>Warehouse*
00:36<Nat_aS>ty
00:36<Supercheese>It gets confusing, there's a popular clothing store called the Men's Wearhouse, play-on-words intended
00:36<Nat_aS>lol
00:36*Nat_aS garintees it
00:37<Nat_aS>guarantees
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00:59<Supercheese>Jeez, why won't my objects' sound effects play in arctic or tropic? They only play in temperate... :?
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01:20<Supercheese>How do I test if an object is built at the edge of the map?
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01:50<Flygon>Expanding on that company office idea
01:51<Flygon>How about industries also being interlinked and having office buildings?
01:51<Flygon>eg. two steel mills are owned by the same 'company'
01:51<Flygon>And it affects your ratings ect
01:51<Supercheese>Eh, there's a lot of things I'd rather see happen before that
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01:52*Flygon listens
01:52-!-Flygon is now known as Flurret
01:52*Flurret changes nicks for that extra earperk effect
01:52*Flurret perks ears
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01:53<Supercheese>Errr, ok?
01:53<Flygon>I'm being a bit silly
01:53<Flygon>But, do tell?
01:53<Supercheese>Bridges-over-stations is being worked on, I'd like to see that hit trunk
01:54<Flygon>Oh
01:54<Flygon>Yes
01:54<Flygon>Bodaciously agreed so
01:54<Flygon>Also, bus and tram stops on bridges would be nice
01:54<Flygon>It happens in Melbourne!
01:54<Supercheese>bridges-over-bridges
01:55<Supercheese>yo dawg, I heard you like bridges...
01:55<Flygon>I have a nice BoB screenie
01:55<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/bridgemaster.png
01:56<Supercheese>:D
01:56<Flygon>Too bad it's VERY impractical
01:57<Supercheese>is... that trunk-legal?
01:58<Flygon>Yes
01:58<Flygon>Note where bridge heads are placed
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02:00<Supercheese>oh those are bridgeheads
02:00<Supercheese>sheesh
02:00<Flygon>I was bored
02:00<Flygon>Impressive, eh? :B
02:01<Supercheese>load it with a thousand vehicles and submit to screenshot competetion
02:01<Supercheese>since the theme is "congestion"
02:01<Flygon>Uuuuh
02:01<Supercheese>Caption: "Clearly we need to BUILD MORE BRIDGES"
02:01<Flygon>Am I allowed to post screenies based off an existing scenario?
02:01<Flygon>This is Sweden
02:01<Supercheese>sure
02:01<Supercheese>check rules, but I think it's fine
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02:03<Flygon>Where are the screenshot contest?
02:03<Flygon>And I need to find my save...
02:07<Flygon>Hahaha... Supercheese
02:07<Flygon>I found it
02:07<Flygon>Guess what
02:07<Flygon>The bridges are even WORSE
02:07<Supercheese>:O
02:08<Flygon>Uploading...
02:09<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/bridgemaster2.png
02:10<Supercheese>Man alive, bridges over bridges over bridges
02:11<Flygon>Want the .sav?
02:11<Flygon>You can take credit for the screenshot :p
02:12<Markk>Flygon: I want that save as well. :o
02:12<Markk>Flygon: Are you able to build bridges over bridges? :o
02:13<Flygon>Well
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02:13<Flygon>Technically
02:13<Flygon>Yes
02:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's "only" bridges over bridgeheads
02:14<Markk>ah
02:14*Flygon uploads to Dropbox
02:14<Markk>I live about 25-30 miles from Södertälje IRL.
02:14<Markk>Flygon: Can you PM the link to me?
02:14<Markk>Flygon: I have to go to work now. :)
02:14<Flygon>Alright
02:15<Markk>"Fuck your Honda Civic, I've a horse outside."
02:15<Markk>The Rubberbandits <3
02:15<Markk>Cheers Flygon :)
02:15<Markk>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8
02:15<Markk>Bai guys
02:16<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/Flurrail20.sav Supercheese
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02:17<Supercheese>neat
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02:21<@peter1138>morning
02:22<Flygon>Menta
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02:33<Supercheese>good night all
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03:35<@peter1138>V453000, +1
03:35<V453000>thank you
03:36-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-59-128.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:37<Pikka>good morning peter1138
03:37<@peter1138>peeeeeka
03:37<Pikka>and charlies everywhere
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03:41<@peter1138>it's plainly obvious that 4x zoom and 32bpp should be removed
03:42<Pikka>is it
03:42<@peter1138>unless you do something cool
03:42<Pikka>32bpp is a bit unnecessary
03:43<Pikka>but 4x zoom is nice for high res displays
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03:43<Pikka>gotta see those pixels
03:43<V453000>x2 is great, both for building and for looking
03:43<V453000>x4 seems for newgrf development only to me
03:44<Pikka>4x is nice
03:44<Pikka>4x on a 24 inch monitor looks almost like 640*480 on a 15 inch CRT :)
03:45<V453000>if you sit 2 meters away from it :>
03:46<V453000>but as much as I find x4 gameplay useless, I dont think removing it would help anything; though I find it really sad that extra zoom projects tend to majorly suck at 1x zoom
03:48<V453000>the gold rush project looks promising, but again I havent seen how it looks in x1 and I am a bit afraid about the outcome there
03:48<@peter1138>i was't really serious
03:48<V453000>I know it wasnt, but still
03:48<@peter1138>zbase is too dark
03:48<Pikka>the gold rush project looks like three houses, a road tile and an oxcart
03:48<@peter1138>and lacks constrast
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03:49<@peter1138>opengfx was also too dark originally
03:49<V453000>I think dark can be okay, lack of contrast is outright a gigantic problem
03:49<Pikka>4bpp base set!
03:49<V453000>Pikka: pretty much, but it looks nice :P
03:50<@peter1138>the concrete bridge is ugly
03:50<V453000>I actually really am considering making greyscale only set :) perhaps with occassional CC
03:50<@peter1138>recolour maps are not being used as intended
03:50<Pikka>"recolour maps are not being used as intended" is my middle name
03:51<dihedral>greetings
03:51<@peter1138>no it's not, you draw 8bpp
03:51<Pikka>oh
03:51<Pikka>this is a different recolour maps are not being used as intended, then
03:51<Pikka>hello dihedral
03:51<@peter1138>:-)
03:53<V453000>did Zephyris disappear again or did anyone hear about his activity?
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03:59<Pikka>2bpp base set!
03:59<ZxBiohazardZx>ohi pikka
03:59<ZxBiohazardZx>on av8
03:59<ZxBiohazardZx>runway translates to either startbaan (starting ) or landingsbaan (landing) in dutch
03:59<ZxBiohazardZx>is there a way to distinguish them
04:00<ZxBiohazardZx>or just use either of them for translation?
04:00<V453000>I wonder how interesting would it be to draw various cargoes if you only had greyscale and eventually CC colours :D
04:00<Pikka>probably landing, ZxBiohazardZx
04:00<V453000>without any cheaty recolouring etc
04:00<Pikka>those texts aren't even used at the moment anyway, since there's no newgrfairports :)
04:00<ZxBiohazardZx>fair enough
04:01<ZxBiohazardZx>Preview Seaplane
04:01<ZxBiohazardZx>is that like prototype or just example?
04:01<Pikka>example
04:01<ZxBiohazardZx>ok
04:01<@peter1138>ZxBiohazardZx, what do you call a real runway? :S
04:01<@peter1138>does it change name depending on whether a plane is taking off or landing?
04:02<Pikka>Een startbaan is in principe hetzelfde als een landingsbaan
04:03<ZxBiohazardZx>@peter1138 either Startbaan or Landingsbaan
04:03<ZxBiohazardZx>startbaan = landingsbaan but the name is based upon the useage
04:03<ZxBiohazardZx>aka if its used as takeoff then the runway is named Startbaan for that time
04:03<ZxBiohazardZx>if the runway is used for landing then we use landingsbaan
04:03<ZxBiohazardZx>:P
04:03<__ln__>what if there's just one?
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>see above
04:04<Pikka>from the wikipedia article it looks like, in context, either "baan" or "runway" are also used. :)
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>it changes based on the plane using it :P
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah
04:04<@peter1138>what if there is no plane using it?
04:04<@peter1138>it's just a thing on the ground
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>then its the last planes used :P
04:04<Pikka>would just "baan" be acceptable for the av8 text, since the text is obviously in the context of aircraft?
04:04<ZxBiohazardZx>i put landingsbaan :)
04:04<Pikka>ok
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>minimale baanlengte
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>could work fine :)
04:05<Pikka>sounds good
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>if no planes on it then its start/landingsbaan btw
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>as we cant determine the use, we tell both :P
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>stupid dutch i know
04:05<ZxBiohazardZx>(Oversize) is that a scalar indication or?
04:06<__ln__>and dutchmen are supposed to be flying ones
04:06<ZxBiohazardZx>boats fly
04:06<ZxBiohazardZx>its a seaplane nation
04:06<ZxBiohazardZx>and in water there are no runways
04:07<ZxBiohazardZx>:P
04:07<Pikka>oversize is for modified aircraft which carry big things
04:07<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz
04:07<ZxBiohazardZx>i can leave it in for now
04:07<Pikka>like the airbus beluga and boeing superguppy
04:07<ZxBiohazardZx>dutch uses alot of english words anyway
04:07<ZxBiohazardZx>Combi same deal
04:07<ZxBiohazardZx>Combinatie would be doable, but combi is used in NL as well so
04:08<ZxBiohazardZx>what about "(Sling)"
04:08<Pikka>helicopters carrying a visible load suspended underneath them
04:08<Pikka>http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/history/aircraft/F_Models/06-08023/06-08023_Sling_Load_Master.jpg
04:09<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz
04:09<ZxBiohazardZx>ok so its a name and i wont try to translate :P
04:09<ZxBiohazardZx>dutch word is most likely sling as well
04:09<ZxBiohazardZx>either that or Draagband, but just no :)
05:13<@peter1138>hm
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05:57<Pikka>hm
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07:02<Celestar>good day
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07:36<@peter1138>hi
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09:47<NGC3982>Afternoon
09:47<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/DdUoe.png
09:47<NGC3982>Look at the train loaded to 46% standing in the station.
09:48<@peter1138>what about it?
09:48<NGC3982>Why is the track in front of it reserved?
09:48<NGC3982>I fail to see what i'm missing :)
09:48<NGC3982>Oh, wait
09:48<@peter1138>cos... that's... how it works...
09:48<NGC3982>It passed the station, entering depot for service and then turned back
09:49<NGC3982>And reserved the track
09:49<@peter1138>you're describing the 0% train :p
09:52<NGC3982>Yes, i am, im a tad confused
09:52<NGC3982>But that messed it up
09:53<NGC3982>By putting bi-directional signals efter the station
09:54<Pinkbeast>Didn't we have this exact same question a day or two ago, with the reason being the same?
09:55<NGC3982>Yes, that is what i realized
09:55<NGC3982>As said, i have no idea what i'm doing.
10:08<V453000>NGC3982: is that a hacked transrapid or what? :D
10:09<Pinkbeast>This layout with trains arriving at a platform then passing through it to a depot then returning seems odd.
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you should service the trains _before_ loading
10:13<V453000>you shouldnt service your trains at all :>
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>totally different argument :p
10:14<V453000>very related however :)
10:14<V453000>UNLESS your trains randomize power :P
10:15*Pinkbeast isn't getting into that. If servicing is desired, this is an odd layout.
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you randomize power on every service?
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10:41<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: yes :)
10:41<V453000>also on any_cargo_loaded and all_unloaded
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11:11<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1061661#p1061661 oh, how I like the analogy expressed there :-)
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11:18<andythenorth>pokka!
11:18<andythenorth>he's back
11:18<andythenorth>planetmaker: it's a good analogy :)
11:18<@planetmaker>yup. I bookmarked that posting for future reference :-)
11:20<Pikka>you're back, andy
11:20<andythenorth>I am?
11:20<andythenorth>did I go away?
11:20*andythenorth has been doing Other Things
11:20<andythenorth>including Not Writing Code
11:21<andythenorth>and Not Playing The Game
11:21<@planetmaker>how dare you!
11:21<Pikka>dreadful!
11:21<@peter1138>verison 2.0 should introduce 3d!
11:21<@peter1138>*version
11:21<@peter1138>i reckon not, myself
11:22<andythenorth>I am thinking that it should introduce deathmatch
11:22<andythenorth>and orcs
11:22<andythenorth>and penalty shootouts
11:22<andythenorth>I do love the v2.0 topic
11:22<@peter1138>hey, let's code subsidaries
11:22<andythenorth>maybe an easter egg where you can play Chuckie Egg?
11:22<@peter1138>*subsidiaries
11:22<andythenorth>Chuckie Easter Egg
11:23<@peter1138>original subsidiaries, heh
11:23<andythenorth>hmm
11:23<@peter1138>good fun
11:23<@planetmaker>2D... yes, might indeed want to introduce 3D. But not sure really. But it could indeed introduce some kind of 3D: Like the option to supply objects newgrf-way as 3D-objects + textures, not as sprites. Especially vehicles
11:23<andythenorth>there are british people here?
11:23<@peter1138>no
11:23<andythenorth>orly
11:23<andythenorth>that explains why we're not having a BROS style falling out hten
11:23<@peter1138>don't eat the piles of purple seed
11:23<@planetmaker>rotation... maybe. height layers, surely with sub-terrain
11:24<@peter1138>the real problem
11:24<@peter1138>is people who think ttd's graphics are "dated"
11:24<@planetmaker>easy newgrf-checks and problem-free additions of vehicles, houses and objects
11:24<andythenorth>let's update those people
11:24<@planetmaker>:-)
11:24<@peter1138>http://calculatedimages.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/openttd-32bpp-making-massive-graphics.html
11:25<andythenorth>but if we update the graphics we can become truly successful
11:25<andythenorth>and attract a lot more players
11:25<andythenorth>by competing with the latest console games
11:26<@peter1138>i have trouble believing the top picture looks bad and the rest look better
11:26<andythenorth>herp
11:26<andythenorth>someone should tell zeph that sprites are not very outdated
11:27<andythenorth>a vast number of flash and mobile games suggest that sprites are alive and well :P
11:27<@peter1138>an example of outdated graphics that look bad are some (but not all) early attempts at 3d
11:27<@peter1138>doom doesn't look too bad
11:27<andythenorth>doom fricking rocks
11:27*andythenorth might play doom again
11:27<@peter1138>anything on the n64 looks terrible (n64 doom paradox!)
11:28<andythenorth>I played shareware doom at christmas
11:28<Pikka>doom is all sprites though
11:28<andythenorth>did 100% of secrets, got bored :P
11:28<andythenorth>mariokart has sprites in it
11:28<andythenorth>afaict
11:28<Pikka>yes
11:28<@peter1138>Pikka, only for objects
11:28<@peter1138>walls are textures, just not blurred
11:28<andythenorth>it is actually texture mapped
11:28<Pikka>n64 emulation is fun
11:28<andythenorth>I got a lecture in more detail than I wanted about doom engine :P
11:29<Pikka>you can have high resolution, anti-aliased geometry
11:29<Pikka>with textures designed to look nice on a 480p CRT television screen
11:29<andythenorth>what *we* should do is make a decent truck set and a decent ship set
11:29<andythenorth>in pixels
11:29<Pikka>yes
11:29<Pikka>well
11:30<andythenorth>hmm
11:30<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Will_I_Be_Famous%3F_(song)
11:30<andythenorth>BROS
11:30<andythenorth>nvm
11:30*andythenorth is distracted
11:30<Pikka>tell dan to hurry up with those sailing ships :)
11:30<@peter1138>WHEN
11:30<@peter1138>WILL I
11:30<@peter1138>WILL I BE FAMOUS
11:30<@peter1138>high res finescale tracks
11:30<Pikka>fancy
11:31<@peter1138>see the problem with 32bpp
11:31<@peter1138>is people thing you don't need to use a palette any more
11:31<Pikka>but no, apparently extra zoom 32bpp tracks need to look like they're made of lego
11:31<@peter1138>show me an artist without a palette?
11:31<@peter1138>actually don't but yeah
11:31<@peter1138>lego? lego tracks? what?
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11:32<Pikka>every extra-zoom trackage I've seen so far looks like a toy, so I assumed that's a requirement :)
11:32<@peter1138>no
11:32<Pikka>I stand corrected then!
11:32<andythenorth>hmm
11:32<andythenorth>maybe we should just make a lego ttd
11:33<andythenorth>with new mindstorms
11:33<andythenorth>I'll rent us a building somewhere :P
11:33<andythenorth>how many square feet will we need for a 512x256 map?
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11:35<@peter1138>TrueBrain, what happened to your lego set?
11:36<@peter1138>zbase could do with using the same scale as ttd
11:36<@planetmaker>quite so, yes
11:36<Pikka>ow
11:37*Pikka is covered in grazes from falling off my bike today and I just absentmindedly scratched one :)
11:41<@planetmaker>outch
11:41<@peter1138>small station building is about twice as tall as it should be
11:43<andythenorth>small station building is odd
11:43<andythenorth>hmm
11:44<andythenorth>if I troll the BROS thread more, hyronymus will mod me :P
11:44<andythenorth>better not
11:46<andythenorth>peter1138 turns out this is pretty good
11:46<andythenorth>http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Cement-Mixer-60018
11:47<andythenorth>a long-dead idea in FIRS was that you would have to deliver building material to industries to construct them :P
11:52<@peter1138>ouch
11:52<andythenorth>not a good idea
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11:59<Eddi|zuHause>soo... HEQS: :) http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/393/seite841024x768.jpg
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12:18<@peter1138>pew pew? biggles? what?
12:19-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0095bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>is that english?
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12:41<@peter1138>pikkalish
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13:00<andythenorth>hmmm
13:00<@Terkhen>hello
13:00<andythenorth>I blame people
13:00<andythenorth>biab
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13:04<@peter1138>ooh, openttd 2.0 should have a built in graphics editor!
13:05<+glx>that's a nice clueless suggestion :)
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13:11<@Terkhen>who would prefer that to a real graphics edition software? :P
13:12<frosch123>i would prefer a build in c++ dev environment
13:17-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
13:18<@peter1138>interpreted C
13:18<@peter1138>runtime changes
13:18<TrueBrain>peter1138: time :P
13:19<TrueBrain>and the lack there of, of course
13:33<@peter1138>hmm
13:33<@peter1138>why are some widgets NWID_
13:33<@peter1138>and some WWT_ ?
13:38<frosch123>NWID_ are the cool ones
13:39<frosch123>with their own classes
13:39<frosch123>WWT_ are the huge switch-case ones
13:39<@peter1138>hmm
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24914 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2013-01-14 18:45:28 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 143 changes by GFtoBG
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by Bassals
13:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 146 changes by siu238X
13:45<@DorpsGek>croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 2 changes by valaky
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13:47<Wolf01>evenink o/
13:56<__ln__>it's the pizza-eating animal that isn't green
13:58<Wolf01>sh*t, how did you guess everything about me?
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14:03<frosch123>where is my pizza?
14:04-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:07<@Terkhen>thanks, now I want pizza too
14:07<@Terkhen>but I don't have pizza :(
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14:36<NGC3982>V453000: Hehe.
14:36<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, should i? I fail to find that in my North Korean OpenTTD Rule Book.
14:36<V453000>?
14:37<NGC3982>V453000: 16:08 < V453000> NGC3982: is that a hacked transrapid or what? :D
14:37<NGC3982>:)
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>Lag: 4h33m :)
14:37<NGC3982>Hehe
14:38<NGC3982>Took the train home from Nose Lake
14:38*NGC3982 is a bit embarrased over Swedish town names.
14:41<__ln__>NGC3982: btw, how ignorant of finnish towns are swedes?
14:41<Rubidium>frosch123: I ate it
14:42<NGC3982>__ln__: I ..uhm, have no idea.
14:42<NGC3982>__ln__: In what context?
14:44-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:44<__ln__>NGC3982: i was on a work trip near stockholm, and was telling some educated person which town we come from. and he had no idea where is 'turku' or 'åbo' in finland.
14:44<__ln__>(and the word educated is not sarcasm, otherwise he seemed quite smart)
14:46<valhallasw>Aabo! They have a physics show there. [/random fact]
14:48<__ln__>åbo was the third biggest city after stockholm and göteborg in the kingdom of sweden, back then.
14:49<NGC3982>__ln__: There is a steep knowledge barrier between Swedes and Fins. I do not know if it's the same for both, but Swedes know very little about Finland, compared with the common knowledge of Danish and Norweigan culture.
14:49<NGC3982>I know Åbo, but i have no idea where to place it on a map.
14:49<NGC3982>I think i have heard of Turku.
14:50<__ln__>those two are the same thing
14:50<NGC3982>Oh, nice.
14:51<__ln__>so in conclusion, swedes are indeed ingnorant of finnish geography and history.
14:51-!-Virgor [~Virgor@c83-253-3-96.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
14:51<Virgor>hi all
14:52<NGC3982>__ln__: I would say that the education is non-existant.
14:53<andythenorth>clearly
14:53<andythenorth>:P
14:53<NGC3982>Since this is Sweden, all the history education regarding Finnish people always concetrate to small sniper dudes being a bitch on Hitlers forces.
14:53<andythenorth>wrt spelling 'existent'
14:53<__ln__>i can understand it's a bit embarrassing to lose such a big piece of land to russia.
14:53<NGC3982>Existant/existent?
14:53<andythenorth>sorry :)
14:53<NGC3982>__ln__: I actually do not know why, but it's true.
14:53*andythenorth being snippy
14:54<NGC3982>__ln__: Most Swedes have no idea we lost anything to Russia.
14:54<NGC3982>__ln__: Thus, i do not think there are any real reasons to not learning more about Finland in school
14:54<NGC3982>More than we should
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14:54<NGC3982>And that it sucks that we don't.
14:54<__ln__>i'm beginning to be really worried about the level of education in swedish schools.
14:55<__ln__>NGC3982: are you aware that for quite some time finland was allied with hitler's forces?
14:55<andythenorth>V453000 :) to your 32bpp post
14:56<NGC3982>__ln__: Yes, i was. I do not know if other Swedes knows that.
14:57<NGC3982>__ln__: Seriosly, though: I'm so sick of our schools teaching students nothing BUT WW2 history.
14:57<Wolf01>I'm already worried about the level of education in italian schools
14:57<NGC3982>Yes, jews had a hard time. Yes, Hitler was not a nice guy. We know it. Please do something else.
14:57<NGC3982>I'm so sick of it.
14:57<NGC3982>Pol pots? Nothing. Guevara? Nothing. North Korea? Nothing!
14:58<andythenorth>have I stumbled into the wrong channel?
14:58<andythenorth>I recognise all the names here :P
14:58<andythenorth>what are we talking about?
14:59<NGC3982>Yes, sorry.
14:59<NGC3982>He pressed a sensitive button.
15:00<__ln__>Wolf01: are you told in the school that there are other countries in the world, with people who do not speak italian?
15:01<Wolf01>yeah, I have been told
15:01<NGC3982>__ln__: But sure, it's getting worses in Swedish schools, but i can't really say im worried.
15:01<NGC3982>This has happend before.
15:02<NGC3982>Though, OpenTTD related
15:02<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/gEFnE.png
15:03<NGC3982>What factors are looked on when decided how much a train should accelerate X tonnes of weight?
15:03<NGC3982>Since, when just looking at it i find some discorrelation (if that is even a word) between tractive effort, horse power and weight.
15:04<NGC3982>But that might be just me..?
15:05<@peter1138>TE, power, weight, drag (two types)
15:06<NGC3982>I thought drag (and all that) was a part of the tractive effort
15:06<@peter1138>no
15:06<NGC3982>I see
15:06<__ln__>you're getting awfully on-topic
15:06<NGC3982>__ln__: ;-)
15:06<NGC3982>__ln__: I love Helsinki, by the way. Been there once now, and it's fantastic.
15:07<@peter1138>well technically max TE is determined by friction
15:07<@peter1138>so what's the discorrelation you saw?
15:07<NGC3982>peter1138: Just by comparing different trains with different values for TE, power and weight.
15:08<andythenorth>we should have a v2.0 contest http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238&p=1061714#p1061714
15:08<@peter1138>airdrag is a vehicle properties that isn't shown any where
15:08<@peter1138>airdrag coefficient, that is
15:08<@peter1138>*property
15:09<@peter1138>*anywhere
15:09<__ln__>NGC3982: sadly the people living there also think the same.
15:09<@peter1138>what the hell :S
15:09<NGC3982>And that is what i see then
15:09-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.139.122.222.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
15:09<@peter1138>not necessarily
15:09<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/Pg1US.png
15:09<@peter1138>so what's the problem there?
15:10<NGC3982>Here, for instance. The EMD engine accelerates way (way) faster
15:10<Rubidium>andythenorth: you forgot the most important thing... the undo knob
15:10<NGC3982>But are longer and heavier. Half the horsepower, and a sixth of the TE.
15:10<andythenorth>why would I want to undo a knob?
15:10<@peter1138>"tom"
15:10<@peter1138>what's that?
15:11<andythenorth>NGC3982: what's the weight of the engines?
15:11<NGC3982>peter1138: Empty.
15:11<@peter1138>?
15:11<andythenorth>herp never mind
15:11<Rubidium>andythenorth: to undo the last X seconds when you crashed a train
15:11<andythenorth>oh, like autosave you mean? :P
15:11<NGC3982>Please note that my observation regards both trains when fully loaded.
15:11<andythenorth>'undo knob' would be a more interesting button
15:11<Rubidium>andythenorth: yes, but only for the train you're controlling
15:11<NGC3982>peter1138: Yes, empty. As in "nothing loaded in the unit" :-)
15:12<@peter1138>tom means empty?
15:12<NGC3982>Yes.
15:12<@peter1138>ok
15:12<andythenorth>I wondered if it was just pure TE - weight relation
15:12<andythenorth>but I actually don't care :P
15:12<@peter1138>so you noticed it when fully-loaded
15:12<@peter1138>but took a pic when it's empty
15:12<@peter1138>?
15:13<NGC3982>Yes, i just took it know. What other data differs from empty to full besides weight?
15:13<@peter1138>weight differs massively
15:13*NGC3982 looks for fully loaded trains.
15:13<NGC3982>There we are
15:13<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/vkUeE.png
15:15<@peter1138>is that a maglev?
15:15<NGC3982>Yes.
15:16<NGC3982>I have no idea why it runs on electrified rails. Might that have something to do with it?
15:16<V453000>andythenorth: is the ":)" the thing to that post? :D
15:16<V453000>expected you would continue the saying :D
15:16<@peter1138>have you been changing grfs?
15:16-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-039-083.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
15:17<@peter1138>anyway, maglev uses a different acceleration "model"
15:17<@peter1138>(it looks made up to me)
15:18-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
15:18<NGC3982>I see.
15:18<@peter1138>max_te isn't used though
15:18<@peter1138>so it shouldn't be shown
15:18<@peter1138>so whatever you did...
15:18<NGC3982>And no, i haven't changed it.
15:19<andythenorth>maglev doesn't rely on weight for TE? :O
15:19<andythenorth>shocking
15:19<@peter1138>it doesn't touch the ground!
15:19<Supercheese>actually it's well insulated, you wouldn't get shocked ;)
15:20<@Terkhen>andythenorth: http://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/16jeqo/i_think_the_hotel_mechanic_might_be_kind_of_broken/ <--- this may be interesting for you
15:20<V453000>it is possible to hack it if you change rail newgrfs I think
15:20<V453000>or redefine MGLV
15:20<@Terkhen>http://i.imgur.com/DhRN1.png <-- the actual picture
15:20<@Terkhen>bbl
15:20<andythenorth>ho, we're on reddit o_O
15:20<@peter1138>why do people post that shit on reddit?
15:21<Supercheese>reddit, really? :S
15:21<Supercheese>oh it's that trainmaster fellow
15:21<Supercheese>that explains it
15:21-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:21<Supercheese>he managed to make my ignore list, I think there's only two users on that
15:21<andythenorth>interesting
15:22<andythenorth>hmm
15:22<Supercheese>Oh ho, there are actually 7 users on my ignore list, interesting
15:22<andythenorth>how did I manage to make FIRS require petrol to grow towns?
15:22<andythenorth>I don't recall doing that :P
15:23<V453000>some script? :D
15:23<Supercheese>andy is going to troll reddit like mad, just you wait
15:23<andythenorth>is reddit approximately slashdot?
15:24<andythenorth>I never bothered figuring out what reddit is
15:24<Supercheese>a wretched hive of scum and villany, perhaps :P
15:24<V453000>:D
15:24<Supercheese>I dunno much about it either
15:25<Supercheese>I think the co-founder committed suicide recently
15:25<andythenorth>:|
15:25-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:25<Supercheese>http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/reddit_co_founder_commits_suicide_AZPHGFSHzBRrOHbx2yGM9O
15:25<Supercheese>bad website, the url says all you need to know really
15:26<Supercheese>autoplay videos and shit, why do webpages do that
15:26<andythenorth>makes them money, temporarily
15:26<andythenorth>via (possibly fraudulent) ad networks
15:27<andythenorth>assuming its ads
15:27<andythenorth>otherwise, dunno
15:27<Supercheese>news videos
15:27<Supercheese>"this shit happened today"
15:27<Supercheese>etc.
15:29<Supercheese>huh, that new airport-tiles-as-objects set looks neat
15:33<@peter1138>newairports!
15:34<andythenorth>newdockls!
15:35<andythenorth>newnew!
15:38<@planetmaker>newnewbridges. newnewobjects. newnewstations (with sane specs)
15:38<andythenorth>newplanetmaker
15:38<andythenorth>newbidium
15:38<andythenorth>new1138
15:38<@planetmaker>sure you want that? Me as pesky teenager?
15:39<andythenorth>I thought you were?
15:39<andythenorth>already?
15:39<@planetmaker>:D
15:39<@planetmaker>pesky... maybe. Teenager... at half my age, yes
15:40<andythenorth>hmm
15:40-!-andythenorth is now known as andythetroll
15:40<andythetroll>Supercheese: hi hi
15:40<@planetmaker>:-)
15:40<@planetmaker>great posting indeed, andythetroll :-)
15:40<andythetroll>I know trolling is just wrong...and yet
15:41<Supercheese>:D
15:41<@planetmaker>you're excused, andythetroll
15:42<Supercheese>Vote mode worked! :O
15:42<Supercheese>Vote for ALL the things
15:43<@planetmaker>that'd be good, Supercheese
15:43<@planetmaker>then we just set priorities - as now ;-)
15:43<@Terkhen>andythetroll: the point of pasting that to you was the "you can place infinite hotels next to each other" issue :P
15:44-!-andythetroll is now known as andythenorth
15:44<andythenorth>Terkhen: so I see :)
15:44<andythenorth>he put it in the thread too :)
15:44<frosch123>hovercraft trains!
15:44<andythenorth>herp
15:44<andythenorth>might use pikka's point about MP
15:44<andythenorth>don't play with dickheads
15:44<Supercheese>Screw everything, just build Star Trek transporters
15:44<Supercheese>teleport all the things, win
15:44<@Terkhen>just a small distance check should be enough, IMO
15:44<andythenorth>peter1138: is our server game still running? :P
15:45<@peter1138>Supercheese, did you figure out bounding boxes?
15:45<@peter1138>andythenorth, yes
15:45<@peter1138>i should... update it
15:45<Supercheese>bounding boxes, more or less
15:45<Supercheese>is there a way to check if an object is build at the map edge?
15:45<Supercheese>the 2px overlap to adjacent tiles looks a wee strange when it overlaps the black void
15:46<@peter1138>just wondering if you'd just ctrl-B
15:46<Supercheese>been using ctrl B
15:46<@peter1138>k
15:46<Supercheese>the alignment is just tedious
15:47<Supercheese>trying to position these childsprites relative to the parent sprite
15:47<Supercheese>boring
15:47<Supercheese>but that's sorted now
15:48<andythenorth>peter1138: I don't want to play MP anyway, not until you've stopped pikka griefing me :(
15:48<andythenorth>it's all so unfair
15:48<andythenorth>really
15:48<@peter1138>griefing how?
15:49<andythenorth>crashing my buses :(
15:49<andythenorth>with his train
15:49<andythenorth>and such
15:49<andythenorth>oh and some idiot built a castle and ruined the map
15:49<frosch123>thanks andy :) going from train-only to hovercraft in the next item is just brilliant :)
15:49<andythenorth>frosch123: that's fine right though?
15:49<andythenorth>I mean it all fits
15:50<andythenorth>if it doesn't, it's because the code is old
15:50<andythenorth>and needs modernising
15:51<andythenorth>anyway, so FIRS hotels are too cheap
15:51<andythenorth>and lots can be built in MP to cheat
15:51<andythenorth>so how expensive should they be to prevent that?
15:51<andythenorth>£1m?
15:51<andythenorth>I mean, how much is enough to stop people building lots of them?
15:52<@Terkhen>double the cost and do not let them be built next to each other
15:52<@Terkhen>:P
15:52<andythenorth>I know :)
15:52<andythenorth>a parameter
15:52<andythenorth>omg, I've just had a totally awesome idea
15:52<andythenorth>biab
15:54<andythenorth>ok so my idea
15:54<andythenorth>no I had a better one even
15:54<andythenorth>hmm
15:55<andythenorth>idea 1. make a parameter for every action 0 prop and every cb result
15:55<andythenorth>for every industry and cargo
15:55-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
15:55<andythenorth>allows pretty comprehensive customisation
15:55<andythenorth>miaow
15:55<jasperthecat1>hi
15:55<andythenorth>idea 2 is even better
15:55<Supercheese>make parameters to determine the number of parameters
15:55<andythenorth>make a parameter for every sprite number
15:55<andythenorth>the value of which is an arbitrary string of nfo
15:55<Supercheese>i.e. "show only basic parameters"
15:56<Supercheese>"show all/expert parameters"
15:56<andythenorth>no no that's silly
15:56<andythenorth>my idea is sensible
15:56<Supercheese>:D
15:56<andythenorth>with my idea, players could runtime-patch any grf
15:56<@peter1138>hmm
15:56<Supercheese>nested parameters
15:56<@peter1138>i'm making a guy
15:56<@peter1138>no
15:56<@peter1138>i'm making a gui
15:56<@peter1138>most important point:
15:56<andythenorth>making a guy is quite different
15:56<@peter1138>what colour should the window be?
15:57<andythenorth>I've made guys and guis
15:57<andythenorth>they're not the same
15:57<@peter1138>i've noticed that everything is grey these days, except the terrain-build tools
15:57<andythenorth>peter1138: red is nice
15:57<andythenorth>I have a red truck. It's off the road, I broke it
15:57<Supercheese>Vote mode go
15:57<Supercheese>+1 yellow
15:57<andythenorth>what etc does your gui do?
15:58<jasperthecat1>That's my favorite color, yellow.
15:58<@peter1138>routing restrictions
15:58<@peter1138>not sure if there's a point to it yet
15:59<@peter1138>i mean, you could do it all with orders ;p
15:59-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:59<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_Style#Window_colours <- peter1138: it is said all company related windows are grey
16:00<@peter1138>but...
16:00<frosch123>you want colourful tto windows? :)
16:00<@peter1138>yes!
16:01<frosch123>http://theodor.lauppert.ws/games/s/screen1/transport_tycoon.png <- the blue is totally creepy
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16:01<Supercheese>New advanced setting! Window color! 32bpp!
16:02<Supercheese>Exclamation point!
16:02<@peter1138>advanced patch setting: TTO style GUI :D
16:02<Supercheese>Semitransparent windows
16:02<Supercheese>Like Windows windows
16:02<@peter1138>i like the fact that the button background is still in the ttd graphics, but not used
16:02<Supercheese>or I guess other OSes maybe
16:03<@peter1138>at least i think it is
16:03<frosch123>i think ogfx omitted them
16:03<frosch123>after wondering what they were :)
16:03<frosch123>yes, they are in original graphics; there was some riddle during ogfx development what the sprites were supposed for
16:04<frosch123>there are still 3 recolour sprites left though
16:04<frosch123>which were never discovered
16:05<Supercheese>have a class, bbl
16:07<NGC3982>frosch123: Look's kinda cute.
16:09<andythenorth>V453000: so did you make SuperCHIPS yet?
16:09<frosch123>nuts & chips -> snaks
16:09-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
16:09<frosch123>*snacks
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16:09<andythenorth>munchies
16:11*NGC3982 is so hungry.
16:12<V453000>andythenorth: it is in progress, I made one
16:12<V453000>rest should be done by a minion
16:12<V453000>if minion gets bored, I do it
16:12<V453000>my example for him, steel https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/steel_cargo.png
16:12<andythenorth>minions are in short supply
16:12<V453000>404 wtf
16:12<andythenorth>not for me :P
16:12<andythenorth>404 on minions though
16:13<andythenorth>V453000: what do you actually want to do? NUTS version of CHIPS?
16:13<andythenorth>I missed the start of the idea ;)
16:13<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3602/steel_cargo.png
16:13<V453000>andythenorth: the only original idea was to have a station set which shows all cargoes
16:13<V453000>as in rubber, grain, stuff, stuff, everything
16:14<andythenorth>hoo
16:14<V453000>and nuts ofc has all cargoes drawn so I give minion cargoes, he does bidding
16:15<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/tto.png o_O
16:15<Rubidium>that doesn't look like tto
16:16<@peter1138>not entirely
16:16<andythenorth>bit zoomy for tto
16:16-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
16:16<andythenorth>or was it that big?
16:17<andythenorth>it's ~ half my life ago :P
16:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by smatz :: r24915 /trunk/src (4 files) (2013-01-14 21:16:56 UTC)
16:17<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Several out-of-bounds reads
16:18<@peter1138>ignore the viewport you dofus
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16:20<frosch123>is that a one-line patch?
16:20<@peter1138>not far off
16:20<NGC3982>Detailed Perfor.. What?
16:20<NGC3982>I want that.
16:20<NGC3982>Is that in OpenTTD?
16:20<frosch123>lol
16:21<NGC3982>I found it!
16:21<NGC3982>Six years later.
16:21<andythenorth>apparently rhythm is a dancer
16:21<@peter1138>how to completely change the gui style:
16:22<@peter1138>replace DrawFrameRect() with something that uses sprites...
16:22<NGC3982>By the way: http://i.imgur.com/57wnk.png
16:22<@peter1138>uhhh
16:23<frosch123>who broke that? :p
16:23<frosch123>oh, wait, it's a single articulated unit, isn't it?
16:23<@peter1138>yeah
16:23<frosch123>stupid vehicle set, don't use it
16:24<NGC3982>:D
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16:31<@Terkhen>good night
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16:40<andythenorth>bye
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17:37<oskari89>Someone should make cake for r25000 when it comes out
17:37<oskari89>It's not that far away
17:40<Wolf01>'night
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17:40<@peter1138>wow, ottd looks ugly with that texture under everything :p
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18:03<@peter1138>yay, crashing ui !
18:04<@peter1138>cgdb bin/openttd
18:04<@peter1138>oops
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20:38<@peter1138>hmm
20:38<@peter1138>saveload works better when you put it in the right _desc :s
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20:41<Supercheese>Who's that Pokémon? *da na na*
20:41<Supercheese>It's... Flygon!
20:41<Supercheese>:P
20:42<Flygon>'gon?
20:42-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.139.122.222.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:44<@peter1138>^_^
20:44<Supercheese>Hmm, there's clearly something in object_cmd.cpp that's misbehaving, but I can't seem to sort out what it is...
20:44*Flygon like, makes Flygon noises all over Supercheese... when finds Supercheese delicious :U
20:45<Supercheese>New Pokémon games, sheesh they just keep making them
20:45<Supercheese>As long as there's money I guess
20:47-!-Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
20:49<@peter1138>yay, separating train routes by speed ;p
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20:50<@peter1138>although the displayspeed to speed stuff appears to be wrong
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>there was a patch for that...
20:50<Supercheese>Great, two bugs now I'm trying to find a fix for now and failing... admittedly this is my first muck around in the source
20:51<Supercheese>well, other than applying existing patches
20:51<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, is it actually wrong or am i using it wrong?
20:51<@peter1138>i never used conditional orders
20:51<@peter1138>Supercheese, so what's the bug?
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: no idea what you're trying to do
20:52<Supercheese>One is http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5441
20:52<Supercheese>The other is an object's sound effect only plays in Temperate, and not in Arctic or Tropic
20:52<Supercheese>I have no climate-specific code at all
20:53<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, conditional orders on max speed
20:53<Supercheese>Maybe MakeWaterKeepingClass is doing something wrong...
20:54<Supercheese>Yeah I think that might be it
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20:56<Eddi|zuHause>ok... something just broke horribly while clicking on that link...
20:56<Supercheese_>which now?
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20:59<Eddi|zuHause>any link it seems...
20:59<Supercheese_>bah, my IRC seems to have freaked out
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>kde-open or xdg-open is seriously broken :/
21:01<Supercheese_>Maybe never having done anything with NickServ was a bad idea...
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21:02<Supercheese_>There we go
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21:19<Flygon>http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8331/8377809717_38b0ccf6e1_z.jpg OpenTTD needs a "Dust and Dirt" feature :p
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21:19<Supercheese>that would be provided by grf likely
21:19<Supercheese>change graphics based on days since last service or whatnot
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21:28<Supercheese>What are these 'bitcoins'? Googling...
21:28<Supercheese>PayPal-ish?
21:28<Supercheese>Indepent currency?
21:28<Supercheese>Independent*
21:30<Supercheese>Cut out the middle man, interesting
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>something that was The Hype about a year ago
21:33<Supercheese>died down since then?
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it "died", but the hype curve certainly slowed down
21:40-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>so is SkiddLow really this unintelligent as he appears or is there just something lost in translation?
21:40<Supercheese>potentially some combination of both
21:41<Supercheese>a shade of grey, so to speak
21:41<Eddi|zuHause>"i create this project. now you guys go ahead and produce content for my project"
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21:53<Flygon>Supercheese: Well, if Australia ever gets a railset... this's happening :p
21:54<Flygon>But it needs to count more than just days...
21:54<Flygon>Should count kilometers travelled too
21:54<Supercheese>do an inventory of available variables
21:54<Supercheese>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_variables
21:55<Supercheese>date_of_last_service is available
21:56<Supercheese>I don't immediately see any method to find distance traveled since last service
21:56<Flygon>Hmm
21:56<Flygon>That's an issue
21:56<Supercheese>depends if registers/temp storage can be (ab)used
21:56<Supercheese>some hack like incrementing a temp_storage whenever motion_counter increases in value could theoretically count distance
21:56<Flygon>Having it just date based has issues such as... for example, a loco in the sidings doing nothing at all getting dusty
21:57<Flygon>Even if it's in the middle of port :p
21:57<Flygon>As in, in the middle of an ocean port
21:57<Supercheese>that could potentially destroy performance by forcing a zillion calculations all the time, though
21:58*Flygon thinks
21:58<Flygon>...
21:58*Flygon nah, that's impossible too
21:58<Flygon>Was gonna suggest it only happen on Snowy or Desert terrain
21:58<Flygon>But that's also impractical to implement
21:58<Supercheese>don't think there's a way to check that
21:59<Flygon>Indeed
21:59<Supercheese>I could be wrong, though
21:59<Supercheese>that list is non-exhaustive
21:59*Flygon nod
21:59<Flygon>Either way, one thing's more important first anyway
22:00<Flygon>An Aussie railset that isn't just New South Welsh trains actually happening :p
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22:02<Supercheese>Yes, well, minor details ;)
22:04<Supercheese>I'm thinking about adding SkiddLow to my ignore list...
22:05<Supercheese>Lemme check if he has ever contributed anything, that should decide
22:05<Supercheese>anything... outside of off-topic that is
22:06<Supercheese>Gah, just noticed a horrible typo I made back in July
22:07<Supercheese>Hmm, he does have screenshots
22:10<Supercheese>Seems he contributed some sprites: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=39227&p=1044212#p1044212
22:13<Supercheese>Ok, I think the problem detailed in FS#5441 may be with the MakeWaterKeepingClass function in water_cmd.cpp
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22:14<Supercheese>attempting a fix...
22:17<Supercheese>Hmm, the compiler doesn't aggressively notify when compilation is finished :(
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22:33<Supercheese>Yep, problem identified
22:34<Supercheese>This might be a discussion better carried on in #openttd.dev ...
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23:10<Supercheese>Dang, I love the comments in OTTD source
23:10<Supercheese>so well documented
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 15 00:00:01 2013