Back to Home / #openttd / 2013 / 01 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-16

---Logopened Wed Jan 16 00:00:02 2013
00:52-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
00:52-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67655.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
00:57-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-72-206.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:09-!-Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:20-!-guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
01:20-!-guru3_ [~guru3@90-224-111-173-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:25-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:01-!-Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd
02:05-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
02:20-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
02:31-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
02:37-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:12-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
03:12-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd []
03:21-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
03:28<@peter1138>Core0 Temp: +12.0°C
03:42-!-Celestar_ is now known as Celestar
03:42<Celestar>:)
03:43<Celestar>You should see a doc, peter1138
03:43<@peter1138>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/
03:43<@peter1138>oh, might not be available out of the uk
03:44<Supercheese>hmm, does DorpsGek do temperature conversions?
03:44<Supercheese>@calc 12°C °F
03:44<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
03:44<Supercheese>dang
03:44<Celestar>erm
03:44<Supercheese>Google it is
03:44<Celestar>@calc 12*1.8+32
03:44<@DorpsGek>Celestar: 53.6
03:44<Celestar>there.
03:44<Supercheese>I don't have that forumla memorized @_@
03:46<Celestar>well now ye do
03:46-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:46<Supercheese>I usually use my hand calculator's builtin conversion, or Google if at a computer
03:46-!-Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-35-85.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:46<Celestar>I just guestimate :P
03:46-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
03:47<Supercheese>I use Celsius so little I can't really estimate well, other than 0° 37° and 100° C points, anyway
03:47<@peter1138>you use celsius really? :p
03:47<Supercheese>Not much
03:48<Supercheese>hence why I like it converted :P
03:48<@peter1138>oh i didn't read the rest, lol
03:48<@peter1138>i use celsius so ...
03:48<Supercheese>I wish my country used Celsius, but I can't change things...
03:48<kamnet>Technically, we do use celsius.
03:49<Celestar>I hate Celsius
03:49<Celestar>it's a stupid scale.
03:49<Celestar>almost as bad as Fahrenheit
03:49-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
03:50<Supercheese>You prefer which scale then?
03:50<@peter1138>ok, my cpu temp is 285K
03:50<kamnet>Let's not turn this into a heated debate, gentlemen!
03:50<Celestar>Kelvin.
03:50<@peter1138>kamnet, ho ho!
03:50<Supercheese>-_-
03:51<Celestar>well actually.
03:51<Celestar>I had a friend who wrote a PhD thesis in physics
03:52<Celestar>where he wrote "In this work, I shall use the god given units"
03:52<Celestar>c = 1, hbar = 1, kb = 1, G = 1
03:57<Supercheese>http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4746860/helicopter-hits-crane-and-crashes-in-vauxhall.html
03:57<Supercheese>Oh my...
03:58<@peter1138>yup
03:59<kamnet>We're having some epic heavy equipment failures around the globe todday
04:03<Supercheese>'night
04:04-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]]
04:13<Celestar>Oh man.
04:13<Celestar>Berlin is really run by a bunch of complete and utter idiots.
04:14<@peter1138>~uhh
04:14<Celestar>it can't be THAT difficult to remodel an existing airport ...
04:15<Celestar>Move one runway. Build terminal.
04:17<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: those are the funniest kind of physicists... "i just do this formula and then add c's and h's until the unit fits"
04:17<Celestar>If Chicago manages to build four runways, remove three and extend two, while handling 3000 arrivals and departures a day. one might think that Berlin manages to move one runway while doing about 100 arrivals and departures a day.
04:18<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: at least they resolved the NSU crisis, and the S-Bahn crisis, and ... :p
04:18<__ln__>the wall crisis
04:19<Celestar>Berlin doesn't manage to chop a tree without damaging all building in the vincinity during the process, I assume :P
04:19<Eddi|zuHause>"Wir können alles – außer Flughafen (und S-Bahn) (und A100) (und freundlich) (und richtiges Abitur)"
04:20<Celestar>yep. exactly.
04:20<Celestar>Wasn't their motto "poor and sexy"?
04:20<Celestar>I think it should be "poor and incompetent"
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure it's the same everywhere whenever politicians are involved
04:21<Celestar>it is similar
04:21<Celestar>but not as bad.
04:21<Celestar>might be concentration of politicians in Berlin ...
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>Elbphilarmonie?
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>Stuttgart 21?
04:22<Celestar>Well
04:22<Celestar>Stuttgart 21 remains to be seen.
04:22<Celestar>Although it the wrong solution to the problem.
04:22<Celestar>Build an ICE station outside the city, like every other country does.
04:23<Celestar>same in Frankfurt, Köln, Mannheim, etc.
04:23<Celestar>actually every city where the high-speed trains do not begin or end.
04:23<Eddi|zuHause>upcoming major catastrophes: Munich 2nd tunnel, Fehmarnbelt-Bridge, ...
04:23<Celestar>Munich 3rd runway ...
04:24<Eddi|zuHause>i still wonder whether they'll actually manage to open the Citytunel Leipzig this year :)
04:24<Celestar>Digging a tunnel seems to give Germans a big headache.
04:25<Celestar>You know, they might ask the Swiss ....
04:25<Celestar>whose Gotthard Base Tunnel is nearly 2 years AHEAD of schedule...
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>last i heard the tunnel itself is already finished, they're only building the connections to the network now. but they're running out of time for the trains
04:25<Celestar>You know.
04:26<Celestar>in 1891, Tsar Alexander II. decided that it would be helpful to build a railway through russia.
04:26<Celestar>through Siberia
04:26<Celestar>over rivers several km wide
04:26<Celestar>Permafrost ground
04:26<Celestar>etc.
04:26<Celestar>it took them 25 years.
04:27<Eddi|zuHause>i always wondered who the hell came up with that stupid idea :p
04:27<Celestar>in 1994, Germany started building a railway line from Bamberg to Erfurt.
04:27<Celestar>which is of similar distance (100km vs 9300km)
04:27<Celestar>and it will take 21 years.
04:27<Celestar>that's progress....
04:28<__ln__>i've read electrifying the siberian railway took ~70 years
04:28<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: they're definitely not running 300km/h on the transsibirian railway :p
04:28<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: and?
04:28<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: that's mainly a question of curve radius...
04:28<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: about the same time as electrifying Munich-Berlin
04:29<Celestar>Munich-Berlin today is 6 hours by train.
04:29<Celestar>Madrid-Barcelona is 2:30
04:29<Celestar>same distance.
04:29<Celestar>SAME TRAINS.
04:29<Celestar>well .. nearly..
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: but they don't have a Coburg that also wants a stop :p
04:30<@peter1138>apparently Munich-Berlin is under 6 hours by car...
04:30<@peter1138>yay for trains
04:30<Celestar>peter1138: I've done it in 3:50
04:30<Celestar>door to door.
04:30<Celestar>ok that was the middle of the night.
04:31<Celestar>but going normally (130-140km/h) takes about 5 hours.
04:31<Celestar>But, German trains have an average of 20% reserves in their schedules. That's why they have those awesome on-time statistics.
04:32<Celestar>NOT.
04:38<Eddi|zuHause>but they have the most awesomest train approval team, that's why everyone wants to spend so much time with them :p
04:39-!-Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
04:42-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
04:55-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
05:06-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:08-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:11-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:14-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:36-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:41<Rubidium>Celestar: they already managed moving one runway in Berlin, after all... the current runway of SXF was moved a few hundred meters to make way for a highway ;)
06:01-!-FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:12-!-FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd
06:20<Flygon_>Celestar: Go 140km/h in a car in Australia, lose your license :(
06:20<Flygon_>Speed limit in Victoria is flat out 110km/h, at best...
06:21<Flygon_>Most cars here can cruise safely @ 160km/h >_>
06:21-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
06:21<Flygon>And that's why peeps think trains that cap @ 177km/h are bullet trains :p
06:21<__ln__>your speed limits are in km/h?
06:21<Flygon>Yes
06:21<__ln__>good for you
06:21<Flygon>70mph limit for you Americans
06:21<__ln__>temperatures in °C?
06:22<Flygon>Yes, __ln__
06:22<__ln__>i'm definitely not american
06:22<Flygon>We're basically Europe
06:22<__ln__>no you aren't, DVD region code 4.
06:22<Flygon>Except we calculate height in imperial measurements
06:22<Flygon>EXCEPT
06:22<Flygon>For buildings
06:22<Flygon>Which use metric
06:22<Flygon>Welcome to Australia :p
06:22<@peter1138>altitude is important
06:23<@peter1138>you wouldn't want to go flying into cranes or anything
06:23<__ln__>Flygon: but you drive on the left?
06:23<Flygon>Yes
06:24<__ln__>there goes your europeanity
06:25<Flygon>We're a hybrid of murrica, pop island, and.... some sort of insulting-but-lighthearted word for Europe :p
06:25<Flygon>...pom island
06:25<Flygon>Not pop
06:25<Flygon>God, I am so derp tonight
06:25<Flygon>Though, we have lost one other aspect of Europe...
06:25<Flygon>All trains are Diesel @_@
06:26<Flygon>Also, ICE-D plzkthx
06:26-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
06:30<__ln__>isn't it ICE-TD
06:31*peter1138 is european, drives on the left, and uses miles :p
06:32<Celestar>Rubidium: :P
06:33<Celestar>Flygon: well ... 110km/h is slow.
06:33<Flygon>110km/h even feels slow :(
06:33<Flygon>My Magna didn't even feel like it was working hard @ 140km/h...
06:33*Flygon was on a backroad >_> <_<
06:33<Celestar>200km/h cruise is fun :P
06:34<Celestar>everything above gets a little stressy
06:34<Flygon>...then again, this's the same car whom's transmission decided 110km/h @ 2nd gear was a good idea
06:34<Flygon>It was climing a hill on a freeway >_>
06:34<__ln__>whom's = whose, right
06:34<Flygon>Yes
06:36<Celestar>lol
06:37<__ln__>Flygon: this one? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/BahnRatekau.jpg
06:37<__ln__>that white thing on the ground is called s-n-o-w
06:38<@peter1138>sunbleached sand :D
06:38-!-Maedhros [~maedhros@72.42.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
06:38<Flygon>__ln__: Yes, like that one
06:38<Flygon>And while we're on snowtrain pics
06:39<Flygon>http://images.theage.com.au/2008/07/08/152943/420_snow_train-420x0.jpg Local 200km/h capable train in snow :p
06:39<Flygon>Diesel ICE can go faster than 200, can't it?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>i went to Karlsruhe recently (via A71/Thüringer Wald) in snowy/foggy weather... rarely got up to 130km/h... took about 5:30h (google maps says it can be done in ~5h)
06:40<__ln__>200 km/h says wikipedia, if it's to be trusted
06:40<Flygon>Oh
06:40<Flygon>Only 200km/h?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>can probably save like 20 minutes is actually finished between Sangerhausen and Sömmerda
06:40<Flygon>May as well just order more VLocity and upgrade some tracks to 200km/h >_>
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>s/is/if/
06:41<Flygon>Looks like ICE TD is NOT a cheap solution to Australia's fast train problem
06:42<Flygon>Regauging VLocity to 1435mm is :P
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: Flygon any place that gets rails beyond 200km/h is electrified, so not much point for the ICE TD
06:42<__ln__>Flygon: here's a screenshot i took inside an ICE TD: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/kuvat/tmp/ICE-screen.jpg
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: allegedly, even a fully occupied ICE TD didn't run profitable
06:42<Flygon>Except the VLocity isn't a tilt train... this made for fun when it went OSpeed on late running on wooden sleepered tight turn tracks @ 145km/h... cue centrifugal force
06:43<Flygon>Wait
06:43<Flygon>There's a such thing as a profitable passenger train?
06:43<Flygon>Waaaaiiiit
06:43<Flygon>Your trains have LCD screens?
06:44<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Vlocity_interior.jpg Our interiors are boring as fuck
06:44<Flygon>Er
06:44<Flygon>Wait
06:44<Flygon>Pretend I didn't say the F word
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: in germany, it's apparently expected that long-distance trains run profitable without government support, only local trains are supposed to get government funding
06:44<Flygon>Gaaah, Mister Flygon got carried away >_<"
06:44<Flygon>Sorry
06:45<Flygon>Eddi: Ah... trains here are run with the assumption of a profit loss
06:45<Flygon>And road coaches
06:45<Flygon>Only profitable train companies are tourist railways
06:45<Flygon>Interestingly, Govt owned railways used to hire tourist railway locomotives because it looked cool :p
06:46<Flygon>Also, the R-class steam locomotives they hired had more horsepower than much of their passenger Diesel fleet >_>
06:47<Flygon>Still, this explains why German trains are SO expensive
06:47<Flygon>If tickets here were costed to reflect profitable running... well, everyone would drive, and you'd get freeway gridlock
06:47<Flygon>It's cheaper to just offer a 250km ticket for just $20-$28 dollars
06:48<Celestar>Flygon: the ICE-TD goes 200km/h
06:48<@peter1138>yeah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pc8RIsuqM4
06:48<Flygon>Celestar: I really expected faster...
06:49<Celestar>it has a measly 1700kW ...
06:49<Flygon>I really expected more powerful
06:49<Flygon>Then again, from what I gather, it used a locomotive...
06:49<Flygon>Here, the VLocity trains are DMU's, 750hp per carriage
06:50<Flygon>So, typical express commuter train becomes 7 carriages (9 in future)...
06:50<Flygon>5250 horsepower... there you go, a passenger DMU and a long freight locomotive :p
06:50<Celestar>The ICE-TD has 4 cars, 1700kW. The ICE-T 5 car config has 3000kW, ICE-T 7 cars 4000kW and ICE 3 8 cars 8000kW
06:51<Celestar>just to compare.
06:51<Celestar>That's sustained output, not peak or hourly output.
06:52<Flygon>Ah, so the ICE Diesels are DMU's?
06:52<Celestar>yah
06:52<Flygon>Ah, alright
06:52<Flygon>Well, simple
06:52<Celestar>ICE1 has 9600kW, usually with 14 cars.
06:52<Flygon>Make a longer train
06:52<@peter1138>you could use a Class 43!
06:52<@peter1138>oh wait, you already have them
06:52<Celestar>2’Bo’+Bo’2’+2’Bo’+Bo’2’
06:52<Flygon>peter1138: Who?
06:52<Celestar>that's the config.
06:53<@peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST)
06:53<Flygon>Oh
06:53<Flygon>The BR125
06:53<@peter1138>top speed 240km/h ;p
06:53<Flygon>Top recorded speed :p
06:53<Flygon>The XPT capped @ 193km/h here
06:53<Flygon>Partially due to lower gearing
06:53<@peter1138>no such thing as a BR125
06:53<Celestar>so the certitied speeds are ICE-TD: 200km/h, ICE-T 230km/h, ICE1/2 280km/h, ICE3 330km/h
06:54<@peter1138>Flygon, reduced power as well
06:54<Flygon>British Rail Intercity 125
06:54-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-111-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:54<@peter1138>IC 125
06:54<Flygon>The power is RATED lower
06:54<@peter1138>!= BR125
06:54<Flygon>Doesn't mean it's actually weaker
06:54<Celestar>not sure how fast the ICE3 can go. Velaro E can do about 420km/h with good conditions :P
06:55<Flygon>If geared correctly, I'd bet money the XPT could break 200km/h on VLocity tracks :3
06:55<Flygon>Though, acceleration is a worry...
06:55<Flygon>The best line for it (Geelong) is also one of the shortest...
06:55<Celestar>If you want acceleration you want a Shinkansen N900-I
06:55<Flygon>I'm talking about the XPT
06:56<Celestar>takes less than 3 minutes to 300km/h
06:56<Flygon>Being regeared to Class 43 gearing
06:56<@peter1138>old and crap now anyway
06:56<Flygon>Well
06:57<Flygon>Let's see how 30 years treated it then
06:57<Flygon>See if it can break it's old record on actual HST-enough tracks :3
06:57<Celestar>How much high-speed track is there in the UK apart from HS1?
06:57<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcH9ZhZPaJU
06:57<@peter1138>^ inappropriate music time
06:57<Celestar>with high-speed meaning > 125mph ...
06:58<@peter1138>if you include 125mph itself, then then ECML
06:58<Celestar>I don't
06:58<Celestar>In Germany there's like a measly 700km or so
06:59<Celestar>oh .. maybe 1000km if you include the 230km/h stuff
07:00<@peter1138>HS2 would be up to 400km/h apparently
07:00<@peter1138>but it's only 192km
07:00<Flygon>Celestar: I meant in Australia
07:01<Flygon>We have a lot of TRACK good for 200km/h
07:01<Flygon>Shame about the alignment :p
07:01<@peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2011.svg
07:02<Celestar>peter1138: yah that's includes 200km/h crap :P
07:02<@peter1138>yeah filter by colour :p
07:02<@peter1138>looks like france is winning
07:02<Celestar>SPain is catching up.
07:03<@peter1138>russia has a nice stretch :p
07:03<Celestar>Time for Germany to uprate the 280km/h to 300km/h
07:03<Flygon>If there was a map of Australia.... of man, that'd be depressing
07:03<Celestar>since they are built for 300km/h anyway.
07:03<Celestar>plus the map is plain wrong.
07:04<Celestar>Hannover-Würzburg is 280km/h, except (some?) Tunnels so it should be red, as should be Mannheim-Stuttgart.
07:04<Flygon>Perhaps the map goes for average speed?
07:04<Celestar>then everything would be grey :P
07:04<Flygon>True
07:04<Flygon>Or in Australia's case
07:04<Flygon>Blacker than the depths of hell
07:05<Flygon>...
07:05<Flygon>Wait
07:05<Flygon>That came out stupid
07:05<Celestar>Australia has more than ... 2 train lines?
07:06<Flygon>Ye
07:06<Flygon>Yes*
07:06<Flygon>We have a crapload of suburban lines, and some nice country trunklines
07:06<Celestar>I would once very much like to cross the US by train :)
07:07<Flygon>http://www.sydney-australia.biz/maps/australia/graphics/australia-rail-map.png
07:08<Celestar>yah I know about The Ghan and Indian Pacific
07:08<Celestar>hence I was thinking two :P
07:09<Celestar>Flygon: http://www.germanrailpasses.com/sites/all/files/germanrailpasses.com/downloads/germanrailpass_pro_0111-map-only.pdf
07:09<Flygon>The map is missing a lot of lines though, in Victoria
07:10<Flygon>Victoria has a relatively dense network
07:10<Flygon>Oh geeze
07:10<Flygon>Germany has one hell of a train fetish
07:10<Celestar>I think this map includes every friggen rail in GErmany.
07:10<Celestar>well we shut down about 50% of the network :P
07:11<Flygon>http://www.vrhistory.com/VRMaps/Vic2000.pdf Victoria
07:11<Flygon>Though, it's outdated
07:11<Flygon>A few lines got reopened
07:11<Celestar>Flygon: there are much much much more people in Germany than in Australia :P
07:12<Flygon>Yes, but Victoria is the size of Polan... actually
07:13<Flygon>http://www.vrhistory.com/VRMaps/Vic1930.pdf :D
07:15<Flygon>Celestar: Thing is, if you looked at the parts of Australia that're actually inhabited
07:15<Flygon>The mass of land/railway lines suddenly skyrockets
07:16<Celestar>well that kind of makes sense :P
07:17<Flygon>I imagine it looks a lot more like Germany suddenly :p
07:21-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
07:23<Flygon>Poooooint is
07:23<Flygon>Your rail infrastructure is better and well maintained :p
07:23<Flygon>Ours is literally buckling, barring RFR lines
07:23<Celestar>or rail infrastructure is WHAT?
07:24<Celestar>The main line from Munich to Berlin is currently shut down on a length of about 20 km.
07:24<Celestar>because the condition of the rails does not allow safe operation at 40km/h(!!!!!)
07:24<Eddi|zuHause><Celestar> Time for Germany to uprate the 280km/h to 300km/h <-- wasn't it announced that new trains from now on will only be purchased for 249km/h?
07:25<Flygon>Really?
07:25<Flygon>And how soon is that being repaired?
07:25<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the ICx? yeah.
07:25<Flygon>And how long has it been out?
07:25<Celestar>Flygon: in total, about 12 months.
07:25<Flygon>Oh
07:25<Flygon>Ouch
07:25<Celestar>It was a test of metal sleepers
07:25<Flygon>Here, 40km restrictions are normal
07:25<Celestar>which are now rust sleepers.
07:26<Flygon>But it's normally just freight lines and suburban lines in slow areas anyway
07:26<Flygon>Rust slee---
07:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: well they already downrated the 330km/h lines to 300km/h.
07:26<Flygon>Oh dear
07:26<Flygon>You salted them?
07:26<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: why not go further...
07:26<Flygon>Any not use Stainless Steel?
07:26<Celestar>no idea.
07:26<Flygon>Or sleeperless tracks?
07:26<Celestar>it's OLD stuff.
07:26<Flygon>Urf
07:26<Flygon>Well
07:26<Celestar>new high-speed rails are sleeperless.
07:26<Flygon>It's a wallbangingly baffling decision
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: well, increasing top speed has very little benefits if you don't at the same time optimise the stations
07:27<__ln__>"the sleeper has awaken!"
07:27<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I'm not taking about increasing.
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>meaning leave out some stations (lots of political influence there) and adding capacities
07:27<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: we need an ITF.
07:27<Flygon>Either way, sleepers here are mostly wooden, with fast train lines being concrete
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: which they are already trying to incrementally achieve for 30 years?
07:28<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I have map. Getting the ICE network into an ITF is suprisingly easy in Germany. It would just need 2-3 new HSRs and a bunch of relatively local modifications.
07:28<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: they aren't. ICE1 and the first HSRs were planned and made for 300km.h
07:28<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: today, we have .. 300km/h
07:28<Flygon>To be fair
07:28<Flygon>300km/h is damn fast
07:29<Flygon>And braking on faster speeds is terrible
07:29<Flygon>Unless you use Maglev, anyway
07:29<Celestar>I prefer to think "The schedule dictates the speed" not the other way round.
07:29<__ln__>both maglev projects were cancelled in germany.
07:29<Celestar>crucial point in Germany would be 28 minutes Stuttgart-Mannheim and 43 minutes Frankfurt/Airport-Cologne.
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i think there were three, actually
07:29<Celestar>both is easily achievable with 300km/h
07:30<Flygon>Transrapid tried to get a Maglev proposal built here
07:30<Celestar>there is zero point to be faster.
07:30<Flygon>But Govt scrapped it and went for the Regional Rail Link anyway
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>Berlin-Hamburg, Munich-Airport and Rhein/Rhur
07:30<__ln__>ah, didn't know about Rhein/Ruhr
07:31<Celestar>330km/h would make sense if you got Hamburg-Berlin to sub-60 minutes. But that's really the least important part. it's already around 90minutes for 300km/h.
07:31<Flygon>Ironically, the link fails to achieve over 80km/h inside suburban areas anyway due to signalling issues
07:31<Celestar>300km*
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>i think it was cancelled in early development status, though
07:31<Flygon>One would reckon a train that can break 200km/h would have in-cab signalling...
07:31<Celestar>well the track needs to be equipped.
07:31<Celestar>:P
07:31<__ln__>actually, Rhine/Ruhr since this channel is english only
07:32<Celestar>lmao
07:32<Celestar>I'll find that map once.
07:32<Flygon>Speed upgrades are silly if stations are too densely packed
07:32<Celestar>What Germany needs is a HSR Nuremburg-Frankfurt, Ulm-Augsburg and direct Hannover-Hamburg.
07:33<Celestar>it's not that much.
07:33<Flygon>May as well just regear lower and accelerate faster :p
07:33<__ln__>Hanover in english
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: what does that map say about Berlin-Munich's optimal speed and intermediate stops?
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>(assuming the "Thüringer Wald U-Bahn" actually gets finished, and Erfurt becomes switchover point between some lines)
07:36<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: 30 minutes Munich Ingolstadt (possible with minor upgrades), 30 minutes Ingolstadt Nuremburg (possible today), 60 minutes Nuremburg Erfurt (possible after construction is complete), 30 minutes Erfurt Halle (possible in 2015), 60 minute Halle-Berlin (possible after broken track is repaired). Total: 3:30.
07:37<Celestar>or 45 minutes Erfurt Leipzig, 75 minute Leipzig-Berlin, with a total of 4:00 then.
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>"Broken track" is a slight understatement :p
07:37<Celestar>yeah :P
07:37<Celestar>that's with stops in IN, N, ER, HAL.
07:37<Celestar>or IN, N, ER, L
07:38<Celestar>can slot in a sprinter that does Munich-Nuremburg-Berlin.
07:38<Celestar>which then takes about 3:10.
07:38<Celestar>which is a nice speed for around 620km.
07:38<Flygon>Sprinter... gah, too many trains are called Sprinter, hahaha
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: not a train here, but a travel mode (basically non-stop over large distances)
07:39<Celestar>and it's not that difficult.
07:39<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/7007_southern_cross_12_sep_07.JPG Apperantly a Sprinter
07:39<Flygon>Oh... Eddi
07:39<Flygon>Sprinters here are basically Diesel suburban trains that stop every stop
07:39<Flygon>They accelerate very very fast
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>there are trains like that here as well
07:39<Celestar>but we currently plan for 62 minutes Munich-Nurenburg, 66 Minutes Nuremburg Erfurt and 65 minute Halle Berlin. Which means the schedule goes totally bust.
07:40<Flygon>Interestingly, the VLocity trains are designed to operate in MU with them
07:40<Celestar>There is a legal limit to longitudonal acceleration in trains in germany.
07:40<Celestar>it's either 1m/s/s or 1.2m/s/s, can't remember.
07:40<Flygon>(Sprinters can ospeed to 145km/h, VLocity tend to cruise @ 140-160km/h anyway... who knows when you get a VLocity shortage?)
07:41<Celestar>most local trains acheive that acceleration at low speeds.
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: train intercompatibility is totally underdeveloped in germany
07:41<Celestar>train interwhat?
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: like operate a 440 in combination with a 442 :p
07:42<Celestar>haha yeah.
07:42<Celestar>works beautifully
07:42<Celestar>until you actually want to move the vehicle :P
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>or even an ICE-T with an ICE2 or somesuch
07:42<Celestar>there 440 aren't bad vehicles.
07:42<Celestar>ICE3 and ICE-T works.
07:42<Celestar>ICE3 and ICE3M works
07:42<Celestar>ICE3 and ICE3 (new) fails
07:43<Celestar>Talent 2 (cough)
07:43<Celestar>worst seats ever.
07:43-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>i've never actually been in one
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>maybe next year
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>if they ever get delivered :p
07:43<Celestar>they feel like a rock.
07:44<Flygon>Eddi: Ahh... here, well
07:44<Flygon>Everything's basically compatible with everything, only hairy nosed points are MU trains
07:44<Celestar>I like the MüNüX :P
07:44-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
07:44<Flygon>And even then, coupling and moving is possible, just actual automated MU control is hard... locomotives can hook up together easier than furries in a furcon, though
07:45<Flygon>A dusty worn out 1950s T-class locomotive being coupled to a brand new NR-class locomotive can look amusing... but it works :D
07:45<Celestar>"Local" Train with 200km/h
07:45<NGC3982>I have never played so long on a server like this
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: sure, that was the case in germany 20 years ago as well... but nowadays 80% of passenger trains are MUs, of different producers and times
07:46<NGC3982>From 1832 to 2202.
07:46<Flygon>Eddi: Oww...
07:46<Flygon>Can they even couple together, and one just tows?
07:46-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
07:46<Flygon>Even Trams here are designed to tow... and they don't have couplers
07:46<NGC3982>The last trains i used was the Vacuum Tube Train NewGRF. Are there some train NewGRF's that date after that?
07:47<NGC3982>Would be neat to make a server run trough 3-400 years with continuus new trains or rails
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: mechanical coupling possibly by an adapter, but electric coupling is already near hopeless, see ICE3 and ICE3 (new) above
07:47<Flygon>You'll need more GRF's..
07:47<Pinkbeast>Doesn't NUTS go very late? Could be wrong.
07:47<Flygon>Eddi: Electric coupling?
07:47<Pinkbeast>1832: the UKRS2 Planet, or 2cc?
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: like, heating, steering, ...
07:48<Flygon>Heating, steering?
07:48<Flygon>Oh, you mean one locomotive controlling other locos?
07:48<Flygon>And MU's controlling others?
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>heat. produced by electricity through a resistor
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>standard since 1920
07:49<Flygon>...you may have lost me
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>needs a connector
07:49<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: eletric coupling is not the problem.
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>this connector is in the coupling
07:50<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: the shitty software revisions don't interact properly
07:50<Flygon>The trains use heat to couple together? (?)
07:50<Celestar>prolly all written in some crappy java application servers ...
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: wtf?
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>"distributed real time java" :p
07:50<Flygon>Here, electronic compatibility is a bit of an issue between suburban EMU's, but towing and multiple crew operation is always possible
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>hence why it takes one second to react on entering a command as simple as "brake now"
07:51<Flygon>Coupling Sprinters to Electric Comengs is not outright unusual... transition coupling is needed, though
07:51<NGC3982>Pinkbeast: UKRS2+.
07:51<Flygon>But, interestingly, the modern R-class Steam locomotives are designed for DMU operation :p
07:52<Flygon>Run out of water? No problem, just tell the T-class that's been doing nothing to push to the next station :p
07:52<Pinkbeast>NGC: Mmm. I did find the early UKRS2 years are a bit sparse.
07:53<NGC3982>Yes, the "Planet years" are hard
07:53<NGC3982>But it sure makes a fun game
07:53<Flygon>Oh lord
07:53<Flygon>Planet years...
07:53<Flygon>I kept going bankrupt
07:53<NGC3982>Hehe, indeed.
07:53<NGC3982>But it can be solved.
07:54<NGC3982>Pax only, dual (or triple engine) and patience.
07:54<Flygon>Flygon lacks enough skill slots to learn patience
07:55<Flygon>I'm too used to momentum expansion
07:55<NGC3982>Hehe
07:55<Pinkbeast>I single-headed pax trains, actually, just kept them nice and small and designed routes with an eye to the terrain.
07:55<Flygon>Damn you Alpha Centauri
07:55<NGC3982>I sometimes wish that the time in the game would go slower.
07:55<Pinkbeast>Also short town-town routes can easily be served with horse trams.
07:56<Flygon>Also, as it turns out, Infinite City Sprawl is a valid tactic in OpenTTD
07:56<Pinkbeast>Ah, I was using daylength 4 and sometimes wished it would go faster. :-)
07:56<NGC3982>Daylength 4?
07:56<NGC3982>Can time span be changed?
07:56<NGC3982>Flygon: What's that? :)
07:57<Pinkbeast>Most patchpacks have included a daylength patch, yes - it's a common project.
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: start on a map with one town and 0 industries (manual funding only)
07:57<NGC3982>I have never used a patch in OpenTTD
07:58<Flygon>NGC3982: http://www.dos486.com/misc/morgan.jpg
07:58<NGC3982>What the..
07:58<Flygon>Basically, build a crapload of Trams and watch the money roll
07:58<NGC3982>:D
07:58<NGC3982>What game is that?
07:59<Flygon>Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
07:59<NGC3982>Ah'
07:59<Flygon>Or: Civilization II's sequel
07:59<NGC3982>Cool
07:59-!-Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: why are your formers not 0-1-2?
08:00<Flygon>Eddi: He built a lot on Planetfall and decided to just upgrade the existing Formers
08:00<Flygon>Rather than build Rover Formers
08:01<Flygon>...
08:02<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/SMACX/ChinaDomination/crawlersareop.png Oh geeze. I was bored that game. I got to around 700 before Global Warming said "^$#& you"
08:09<Pinkbeast>NGC: Huh. I find it vexing to play without daylength, working separation, and cargod*st which means I don't play very often. :-/
08:09<NGC3982>I have started a new game with FIRS+UKRS2+NUTS on ttd.dndr.se
08:09<NGC3982>Pinkbeast: Ah, i see.
08:10<@planetmaker>NGC3982, you think it's sensible to mix ukrs2 and nuts?
08:10<Pinkbeast>Won't most of the vehicles just refuse to couple together? But if you want to play after the end of ukrs2 I guess that doesn't matter.
08:11-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: so where dis you actually find a "working separation"? :p
08:13<V453000>might be useful for getting nuts wagons for firs, but as most nust vehicles will probably be stronger than ukrs2, I dont see the logic either :)
08:13<NGC3982>planetmaker: I have no idea, that's why i'm trying. :)
08:14<Pinkbeast>Chill's had one if you never sent a vehicle for servicing (sigh)
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: emphasis on _working_
08:15<Pinkbeast>And routes didn't get too congested and you didn't mind a bit of manual sorting out and... well, it gave you something to do after you'd built railways over the entire map.
08:15<Pinkbeast>It was better than having all the pax trains on a route running line astern of each other, in my view.
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: you can do manual separation with stock timetables, but it's very tedious
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>the time-based system is better, but doesn't relieve you of most of the work, like setting up the timetable in the first place
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>automatic separation never works
08:17<Pinkbeast>I autofilled timetables in the final Chills and it worked OK. Not great, but better than nothing.
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>i hope the new timetable patch will actually help in synchronising several lines, but i haven't tested that yet
08:18<NGC3982>planetmaker: What do you think?
08:18<Pinkbeast>Of course it considerably exacerbated the problems with a vehicle seeking automatic servicing going for the worst depot possible.
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>to quote V453000: you sholdn't do servicing :p
08:24<V453000>:P
08:24<V453000>ever
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>(i'm considering a mode in CETS where maintenance doubles or quadruples if you don't service your trains)
08:25<V453000>nobody cares about costs
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: with non-linear infrastructure costs, i thing we might get to that point where it matters
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>*think
08:26<V453000>of course it can matter, you can always make the player go bankrupt
08:26<V453000>point is, finding the most profittable solution is so trivial that it wont matter in the long run
08:27<Pinkbeast>What I'd really like is a way to make reliability matter absent breakdowns.
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>the point is, there needs to be a thin line between cost efficiency and expansion
08:27<Pinkbeast>Eddi: Power could reduce when unserviced - that'd get trains into the depots.
08:28<V453000>reducing power or speed when unserviced would matter, indeed
08:28<Pinkbeast>Aha. How about this. Power reduces when unserviced, and the breakdown chance reduces cargo payments - so there is a penalty for using a fast but unreliable engine.
08:29<Pinkbeast>Whoops, canteen closes in 15 minutes. Later!
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>those are all good ideas
08:33-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
08:34-!-Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04f1a6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
08:35<@planetmaker>NGC3982, I think they try quite different wrt their game play intentions
08:39-!-Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04ea45.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:39<NGC3982>planetmaker: I tried starting the game a bit further in time, and yes - the GRF's are not compatible.
08:39<NGC3982>I restarted with NUTS
08:41<@planetmaker>technically they might be compatible. But not from a gameplay POV :-)
08:41<@planetmaker>or rather: there should be no reason that they are incompatible technically
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>UKRS gets quite bitchy if combined with other GRFs :p
08:42<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64029
08:42<@peter1138>hmm
08:42<NGC3982>That was what i wanted to say with incompatible :)
08:42<@peter1138>shouldn't it be unreserved when the last part fully leaves the tile?
08:42<@planetmaker>yes... likely you forgot to set a parameter ;-)
08:42<NGC3982>Way too different number-wise
08:43<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki/Usage#Other-newGRFs
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i haven't read the code in a while, but reservation was handled on VehicleEnterTile last time...
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>i mean un-reservation
08:46-!-Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:03<Pinkbeast>I've used UKRS2 with 2cc - not ideal but it works, and it beats having nothing to puts cows in after 1960 or so
09:03<NGC3982>Hehe
09:03<NGC3982>Moo.
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: yes, that's one of the worst gameplay-violations of "realism"
09:10<@planetmaker>very much so. That's... one of the best examples why realism sucks
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's already bad enough in DBSet where livestock wagons are limited to 100km/h while everything else may go 120km&h
09:11<Pinkbeast>Pikka and I disagree and it's his set, but... I never met anyone yet who dismantles half their rail network in the 60s (bonus points if you do it in a co-op game while your wife builds an RV network to take over) so why not a hypothetical stock wagon.
09:11*Pinkbeast rather appreciates the headscratching that comes with slow-moving trains
09:12<V453000>What, UKRS2 has no livestock wagons after 1960, like ... they disappear or?
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: basically, yes
09:13<Pinkbeast>The existing livestock wagon expires (and even with expiry off, would be _very_ slow, prohibitively so on any shared network)
09:13<V453000>expiring vehicles?
09:13<Pinkbeast>Because the UK does not now transport network by rail.
09:13<Pinkbeast>*livestock, damn
09:13<V453000>ah, well wagon speed limits are also stupid to use tbh
09:13<V453000>I see
09:13<V453000>well thats retarded :D
09:13<V453000>-> when you dont use wagon speed limits and expiring vehicles, it works?
09:14<Pinkbeast>Um well some of us enjoy having gameplay constraints?
09:14<V453000>that isnt a constraint at all
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>DBSet has a long standing bug where if you use retiring wagons and no speed limits, then the old wagons disappear and the new wagons won't appear
09:15<V453000>especially since the only real solution to trains with different speeds is either timetable speed limits (which you have to update upon every autoreplace so that is kind of not a real option), or splitting tracks
09:15<V453000>and if you split your networks, it isnt a constraint but making it easier
09:17<Pinkbeast>If you have infinite space to build in
09:18<V453000>not just then
09:18<V453000>having 5 simple lines is a lot smaller than having 5 combined lines where any train can go anywhere
09:19*NGC3982 just finished Star Trek DS9.
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>i ended up mostly separating my networks after the train load just wasn't handle-able anymore: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
09:19<__ln__>NGC3982: congrats
09:19<NGC3982>Best Star Trek series by far.
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>i wanted to finally watch that completely, but got stuck somewhere in the middle of season 3 or so
09:21<NGC3982>After season four, it makes a turn for the better
09:21<NGC3982>A turn for the fantabulous, even.
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>also i think the alternate-universe episodes weren't as good as i remembered them
09:21<__ln__>indeed, it gets much better in the last 3..4 seasons, so don't get stuck at 3.
09:22<__ln__>those are terrible
09:22<__ln__>even worse than lwaxana troi episodes
09:22<NGC3982>Oh god, not Lwaxana.
09:22<NGC3982>But that's TNG
09:22<NGC3982>So it's forgiven.
09:23<@peter1138>TNG's the best
09:23<@peter1138>that might be just cos that's the one i watched
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>certainly enterprise is the bestestest :p
09:23<NGC3982>Piccard is great, but character development really takes a step up in DS9.
09:24<NGC3982>Gul Dukat, for instance.
09:24<@peter1138>what?
09:24<__ln__>there was only one alternate universe episode in TOS, and that would have been an appropriate number for DS9 too, as it's not such a brilliant idea anyway.
09:24<@peter1138>i was 9, why would i care about character development?
09:24<NGC3982>peter1138: I'm not talking about your impression of Star Trek.
09:25<NGC3982>peter1138: But about mine. :)
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>i'm always getting the impression that i'm the only one in the world that liked wesley crusher
09:25<NGC3982>Yes, you are the only one.
09:25<NGC3982>:D
09:25<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yes
09:26<NGC3982>But no, i can't say i hated him as a character
09:26<NGC3982>But he didn't really fit, if you ask me.
09:27<NGC3982>My favourites has always been Piccard, O'Brian, Bashir and the EMH Doctor program on Voyager.
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>the doctor was totally annoying
09:27<__ln__>it's Picard, O'Brien
09:28<Pinkbeast>Dax, at the time. From which you may conclude I was a teenage boy and an obvious strategy on Paramount's part worked perfectly. :-/
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>almost as much as that nutjob guy what's his name...
09:28<NGC3982>I guess i'm used to the French spelling.
09:28<NGC3982>Pinkbeast: Haha. Ezri och Jadzia?
09:29<Pinkbeast>Errr the first one?
09:29<__ln__>Pinkbeast: you mean Curzon Dax?
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>who in this universe liked ezri?
09:29<NGC3982>I do
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>although i don't think i have seen many episodes with her
09:30<__ln__>she's season 7, so you can't have
09:32-!-George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
09:32-!-George is now known as Guest4727
09:32-!-George|2 is now known as George
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i meant back when it was new, i missed a lot of episodes during the later seasons
09:35<NGC3982>I did not own a TV until Voyager was airing.
09:35<NGC3982>Aired*
09:35<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/TAad6.jpg
09:35<__ln__>as i've said before, you are living in the wrong country if season 7 has even been shown on tv, ever.
09:36<NGC3982>I am pretty sure DS9 was aired in Sweden.
09:36<NGC3982>Or, uhm. Hm.
09:36<__ln__>it's much nicer that 3 or 4 seasons of a series are shown, and then for no reason not the rest.
09:36<NGC3982>Oh, you mean like that
09:36<NGC3982>Yeah, i have never understood that.
09:38-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: lots of series have had that fate...
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: last notable was season 5 of eureka
09:38-!-kamnet [4a838073@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
09:39<__ln__>happened here with at least TNG, DS9, Voyager, and probably various non-trek series. could be that some other network aired the remaining seasons of TNG years later.
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>worst thing was farscape
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>they only translated season 1-3, skipped season 4, but translated the final miniseries
09:40<NGC3982>Hah.
09:41<NGC3982>I guess it's a matter of money
09:41<NGC3982>You buy a third of the series, and dump it if the rating goes down the tubes.
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: traditionally, series are bought in "package deals". so you buy "all warner movies and series for the next 3 years"
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>and potentially you trade afterwards for series that fit better into your program
09:42<NGC3982>And exclude the not so fitting?
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>well if you have non-fitting series, and nobody wants to trade, they'll just rot in some poison cabinet
09:43<NGC3982>;_;
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they get aired at some 2AM timeslot or so
09:44<__ln__>for the most time, DS9 and Voyager were aired either at like sunday at noon, or some day after midnight. no wonder those weren't extremely popular.
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>most times i saw trek was weekday-afternoon
09:45<NGC3982>Voyager was aired quite formidably.
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>varying 15:00 or 16:00 timeslot
09:46<NGC3982>4-5PM
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>enterprise was totally rubbish, was saturday afternoon-ish and against another scifi-series (i think andromeda or somesuch)
09:47<NGC3982>Enterprise is the latest, right?
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>yes
09:47<NGC3982>Haven't seen a single episode
09:47<NGC3982>It has taken me two years to finish TNG and DS9
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>where they screwed up everything from klingons to borg
09:48<__ln__>TNG was "Raumschiff Enterprise" in german, so what was Enterprise called?
09:48*NGC3982 starts up the Voyager DVD's.
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: just enterprise
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: and the full name of TNG was "Raumschiff Enterprise - Das nächste Jahrhundert"
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>(back translated: "the next century")
09:49<NGC3982>That lingual expression of a century was very Vulcan.
09:50<NGC3982>No pun intended.
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>??
09:50<NGC3982>Jahr is "year", and "Hundert" feels like a hundred?
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes
09:50<NGC3982>Very logical
09:50<NGC3982>Very Vulcan.
09:50<NGC3982>:P
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's how 99.9% of german nouns work
09:52<NGC3982>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AECEnj6r6k8
09:52<NGC3982>Btw.
09:53-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:53-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: that's too incoherent for me to watch...
09:57<__ln__>the what-was-the-girls-name linguist character in Enterprise makes me wonder whether the americans equate knowing a foreign language to some kind of a supernatural power.
09:59<__ln__>like.. she hears a 15-second sample of some completely new extra-terrestrial language, and in that time she can figure out the syntax and vocabulary of the language. and if she can't, the captain wants her to try harder.
10:01-!-George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
10:01-!-George is now known as Guest4730
10:01-!-George|2 is now known as George
10:04<__ln__>and such an irreplaceable person is allowed to participate dangerous away team missions.
10:04<Pinkbeast>Everyone vital always takes part in away team missions.
10:05<Pinkbeast>Star Fleet has a very generous pension scheme for officers.
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i guess they needed some "plot device" replacement for the universal translator
10:05<NGC3982>Haha, indeed.
10:06<Pinkbeast>Oh, of course, Enterprise was the prequel where they didn't, eg, get rid of the transporter even though it breaks the plot every episode
10:06-!-Guest4727 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:07<NGC3982>Wait, what.
10:07<NGC3982>I just saw how Nog looks without make-up
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>what's a Nog?
10:07<__ln__>Quark's nephew or something
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>oh
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>i probably wouldn't recognize this person...
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>like Worf and other crazily masked guys
10:08<NGC3982>You would recognice Worf.
10:08<NGC3982>That's a big dude.
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>but... they all look alike :p
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>although i did recognize quark in some other series
10:11<NGC3982>The actor?
10:11<NGC3982>Might be more of the voice than the face, i guess.
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, obvously not the character :p
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>voice is tricky if you deal with synchronisations
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>not always the same actor always gets the same voice
10:12<NGC3982>Like Worf, for instance
10:13<Pinkbeast>Same voice: er except Sirtis's Laaahndon accent sounds sod all like Troi, for example. ;-)
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>what?
10:16<Pinkbeast>Sirtis talks normally with a relative lower-class London accent and presumably might talk like that in another role
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>no clue what that sounds like
10:18<__ln__>the good thing about Voyager is that there are no lwaxana troi episodes
10:19<Pinkbeast>Eddi: sure, but you can appreciate it sounds nothing like Troi - you wouldn't recognise it as the same person.
10:21<NGC3982>__ln__: Indeed.
10:21<NGC3982>__ln__: I'm starting it now.
10:21<NGC3982>Best thing to do on a birthday.
10:21<__ln__>it can be a disappointment after DS9. but it's not that bad.
10:22<NGC3982>I think ill manage.
10:22<__ln__>a colleague of mine watched all star trek movies and star trek series (even the animated one) within a year.
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>i think i watched the first voyager episodes on some star trek marathon in school
10:23<Flygon>Voyager starts off so slow...
10:23<Flygon>But it gets better and better and better...
10:24<Flygon>It's like that dude in an RPG that starts off weak as hell
10:24<Flygon>But if you work at it
10:24<Flygon>It becomes f'ing AWESOME
10:25<Flygon>The Warp 10 episode is quite possibly the worst I've ever seen thus far, however, in terms of making any sense
10:25<Flygon>G'night
10:27<NGC3982>Hehe
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>"Google Streetview Botswana shows a donkey that allegedly was killed by the streetview car"
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: voyager seems very stretched out in the end
10:29<NGC3982>Hm
10:32<__ln__>in Voyager there's a vulcan in the crew, a vulcan that has made an album where he sings. that's a good sign.
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>so you suggest that sylar should start singing? :p
10:37<__ln__>that would be good.
10:38-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
10:44-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
10:44-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:45-!-neli [micha@154-238.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:45-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-000-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
10:47-!-neli [micha@30-224.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #openttd
10:51<NGC3982>Ok
10:51<NGC3982>First impression
10:52<NGC3982>They have tied lot's of stuff in
10:52<NGC3982>Quark is in the first episode
10:52<NGC3982>The admiral that figures alot with Sisko in the war, and the ending of DS9 - is Janeway's husband.
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>that's the backdoor pilot effect
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>you get some familiar people that the viewer is accustomed to to ease into the story
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>no idea which admiral you're talking about, though
10:54<NGC3982>Hehe, he is well present from the first to the last season, but doesn't do anything of great importance.
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>Trek only sprinkles in admirals once in a while to interfere with the storyline :p
10:55<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: I like it. It's a good way to start off.
10:55<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: http://trekcore.com/gallery/albums/williamross/behindthelines_678.jpg
11:02-!-Guest4730 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:02<__ln__>almost all the star fleet admirals appear to be completely incompetent as leaders, and/or insane.
11:07-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:08-!-SOULNCHAIN [552a85d5@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
11:08<SOULNCHAIN>HEY
11:09-!-SOULNCHAIN [552a85d5@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit []
11:10-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
11:15-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
11:16<V453000>hey. :D
11:19-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:19-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
11:22-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:24-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
11:24<NGC3982>__ln__: I noticed.
11:24<NGC3982>__ln__: But that is intentional.
11:24<NGC3982>At least in TNG and DS9.
11:25<NGC3982>I noticed the blunt racism that is present troughout TNG, DS9 and Voyager
11:25<NGC3982>And i read up on it, and it's intentional (and quiet obvious).
11:25<NGC3982>quite*
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>there's not a lot of room for admirals in voyager
11:27<Pinkbeast>Perhaps Star Fleet adopts the earlier practice that captains promote by seniority so you basically have to keep useless admirals around
11:30<NGC3982>
11:30<NGC3982>Oops.
11:31<NGC3982>One of the pure basics of the entire Star Fleet history is that it's infested with racism and aristocracy, of sorts.
11:31-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
11:39<NGC3982>And, to talk of something on-topic for the first time today: The NUTS NewGRF Trainset feels overpowered.
11:40<V453000>like? .)
11:40<NGC3982>That might be just me playing way too much UKRS2+
11:41<NGC3982>First train, >400kN.
11:41<V453000>UKRS2 doesnt expect you to have 2000 production primaries which is imo a big problem later on
11:41-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:41<NGC3982>Yes, i guess. It's not like i'm saying it's wrong or anything.
11:41<NGC3982>It was just a big contrast.
11:42<V453000>however, if you compare NUTS to DB set or Dutch trains, transrapids for passengers with 240passengers/tile and 500 speed, or 60 capacity wagons, I dont think NUTS is rather in the middle ;)
11:42<NGC3982>Though, i have never seen the cute little logotypes between the engine names and the picture in the depot before.
11:42<NGC3982>That was nie.
11:42<NGC3982>Nice*.
11:42<V453000>:)
11:42<NGC3982>V453000: Hehe.
11:43<V453000>if you are interested in knowing more about NUTS, just have a look at the wiki :)
11:43<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki
11:43<Pinkbeast>I think in UKRS1 I coped with full-production primaries, but they only started to turn up about when the 9F did.
11:43<V453000>UKRS1 is nice
11:43<Pinkbeast>It would have been a bit messy if eg the biggest engine was the 0-8-0 goods
11:44<V453000>for passengers it is very weak though :(
11:44<V453000>the trains look great but cant handle much traffic
11:44<V453000>NUTS is very strong in all aspects, but not extreme in any
11:45<V453000>for passenger transportation it is comparable to japanese train set, just a bit stronger
11:45<Pinkbeast>Coo, and the 9F's tractive effort is _much_ lower in UKRS2
11:45<V453000>and for cargo, well somewhere a little bit above UKRS1
11:45<V453000>stats change between UKRS2 and UKRS1? :D I thought those were "realistic"
11:46-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:46<Pinkbeast>On the other hand the tractive effort for other locos is unchanged. I think the freight locos in UKRS1 may have had wrong figures
11:47-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
11:47<V453000>well NUTS changes stats of vehicles pretty much between every two versions :D
11:47-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
11:48<Pinkbeast>Now I think, I seem to remember - could be wrong, ask Pikka - that the UKRS1 figures aren't limited by adhesion so the freight locos with huge boilers have crazy tractive effort.
11:48<V453000>I dont really care about these realistic details :)
11:50<Pinkbeast>Hm. I tend to feel the acceleration of electrics helps to make them not just interchangeable stats packages
11:50<Pinkbeast>Hm, and the GWR are a bit stuffed in UKRS2
11:52<Pinkbeast>There's a generic 4-6-0 which is much like the Black Five, so their best express locos are missing, but everyone who built Pacifics gets the A4 / Britannia / Princess Coronation / *spit* Merchant Navy
11:54-!-RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:55-!-andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:fdc9:e1bd:d127:8fd7] has joined #openttd
11:55-!-andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:fdc9:e1bd:d127:8fd7] has left #openttd []
12:08-!-user54367644 [~user@121.187.123.58] has joined #openttd
12:13-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
12:14-!-user54367644 [~user@121.187.123.58] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi]
12:24-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
12:28<@Terkhen>hello
12:40-!-glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:95d9:819e:f5e6:5070] has joined #openttd
12:40-!-glx is now known as Guest4749
12:40-!-glx_ is now known as glx
12:46-!-Guest4749 [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:00-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b9b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:05-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1AAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:16-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:22-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:35-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:41-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:44-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24917 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-01-16 18:45:20 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 15 changes by ntchris
13:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 193 changes by taleinat
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 19 changes by wojteks86
13:50<__ln__>what's wrong with horse meat?
13:51<NGC3982>Nothing, but someone that sells you cow meat that contaigns horse meat probably has one or two problems.
13:51<NGC3982>Contains*
13:51<NGC3982>If this is related to yesterdays discussion.
13:52<__ln__>i don't recall yseterday's discussion, but i read the news that said britons are upset by horse in their burgers.
13:53<frosch123>who wouldn't be upset about a whole horse inside a burger
13:53<NGC3982>Yes, several processing plants have been selling cow meat that contains horse DNA
13:53<NGC3982>Wich means they either "processed" horse, or fed the cattle with horse.
13:53<frosch123>NGC3982: cleary the cows murdered and ate a horse
13:54<NGC3982>Wich is not so good.
13:54<NGC3982>frosch123: :D
13:55-!-spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:55<glx>cows used to eat cows some time ago
13:55<NGC3982>And we all know what happend then
13:56<NGC3982>It's like Prussia all over again
13:56-!-spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit []
13:56-!-spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:59<spod2000>ey
14:01<@peter1138>NGC3982, it sounds like you're suggesting that a cow that eats horse will absorb its dna...
14:02-!-spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
14:02<@peter1138>so... if i went for a dna test, would it have traces of cow, pig, and not to mention a ton of plant dna?
14:04<frosch123>sure, if it includes material from stomach and intestine
14:04<frosch123>cows have a lot of stomach
14:07<NGC3982>peter1138: It contained both meat and DNA, as far as i remember.
14:09<NGC3982>And yes, what frosch said.
14:09<NGC3982>:)
14:11<@peter1138>anyway
14:11<@peter1138>it's a stupid suggestion
14:11<@peter1138>it's obvious that horse meat was processed in the same plant
14:13<frosch123>allergy info: may contain horse
14:13<@peter1138>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-455953/The-English-horses-sent-France-eaten.html
14:13<@peter1138>old, from 2007
14:14<@peter1138>just cos we don't tend to eat horse here doesn't mean it isn't processed
14:15-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
14:15<Wolf01>o/
14:16<__ln__>i've seen horse meat being sold here a few times... it's not common, but happens.
14:16<frosch123>horse sausages are quite common here
14:18<frosch123>kangaroo is uncommon, but it was offered at the chinese restaurant i was a few months ago (though i have no idea how kangaroo relates to chinese)
14:18<@peter1138>those cheap frozen burgers suck anyway
14:18<@peter1138>i'm surprised they contain any meat at all :p
14:20-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:33-!-Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:35-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:35<andythenorth>hohoho
14:36<V453000>hi andy
14:37<V453000>andythenorth: please see http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4796 :)
14:37<V453000>I think it is a good method 1. to not show modern cargoes too early, 2. not to make the station set go completely batshit insane
14:37<andythenorth>V453000: you need to recruit yexo ;)
14:38<V453000>hm :) sprites first :P
14:38<andythenorth>so your cargo graphics vary by railtype? o_O
14:38<V453000>yeah that would be best
14:38<andythenorth>interesting
14:38<V453000>it is simple, every railtype has different wagons and for every wagon I drew different cargo
14:39-!-Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:39<V453000>so a rail/elrl/mono/mglv separation would work best
14:39<V453000>and as mono/mglv tends to contain wtf, it could be just left out for sane train sets which dont use mono/mglv
14:40<frosch123>night
14:40-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b9b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:41-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
14:41<V453000>and in large eyecandy complexes, it is good to have at least some form of control over how it looks
14:41<V453000>so while railtype differences do allow for control, they keep the nice logic how chips works -build stuff, done, easy
14:41<Supercheese>Buenos dias
14:41<V453000>elo
14:43<NGC3982>Mmm, natchos.
14:43<Supercheese>nachos*
14:43<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> i'm surprised they contain any meat at all :p <-- funny, i've read that same comment elsewhere :p
14:44<andythenorth>Pikka: http://www.brothers-brick.com/2013/01/14/elvis-cant-leave-the-building/
14:45<V453000>how does that actually hold together
14:45<Supercheese>Can GameScripts build Newobjects with OWNER_NONE ?
14:46-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:47<andythenorth>can GameScripts write newgrf for me? :P
14:58<@peter1138>yes
14:58-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
14:59-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
15:06-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
15:06-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
15:27-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:27-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
15:28-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
15:29-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d820542.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
15:37<Zuu>Supercheese: AFAIK, GameScripts cannot build NewObjects at all
15:38<Supercheese>Aww
15:38<Zuu>For that to work, the GS would need to understand which NewObject looks nice to put where
15:38<Supercheese>Yes, 'twould
15:39<Supercheese>I was thinking maybe to have the GS pick specific objects from specific newgrfs, but that's unable to deal with arbitrary objects, of course
15:39<Zuu>I haven't looked at the spec, but I wonder if the NewGRFs need/can specify information that a GS can use to have an idea what each NewObject is.
15:40<jasperthecat1>Hi.
15:40<Supercheese>the spec has little information with respect to where they should be placed, only where they should not be placed (not on slopes, etc)
15:41<Supercheese>only above snowline, etc.
15:41-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c08ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
15:44-!-fonsinchen_ [~fonsinche@brln-4db9cf09.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
15:52-!-fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c08ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:58<@Alberth>near a big flat water area, on hills, in particular nice configurations, near roads, ....
15:59<Supercheese>Yes, a mystery, in need of solving
15:59<@Alberth>quite impossible to do in a generic way
15:59<@Alberth>tmwftlb, imho
15:59<Supercheese>Mm, probably on a specific-grf, specific-object basis only
15:59<Supercheese>specialized scripts or some such
15:59<@Alberth>indeed, much simpler
16:00<@Alberth>and if you're lucky, you can re-use some GS code between different objects
16:03<Supercheese>although GSes need to be able to build objects first :P
16:05<@Alberth>they cannot? :o
16:06<Supercheese>I didn't find any function
16:06<@Alberth>that should be relatively easy to fix, would be my guess
16:06<Supercheese>http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/functions_0x62.html#index_b
16:07<Supercheese>Lots of BuildFoo() but nothing for BuildNewObject() or the like
16:07<Supercheese>I could be wrong of course
16:07<@Alberth>I don't even know how to do it in C++ :p
16:09<Supercheese>well, bbl, off to university
16:10<@Alberth>bye
16:14-!-jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
16:20-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:21<@peter1138>hmm
16:21<@peter1138>"why isn't this game fast-forwarding...?"
16:21<@peter1138>multiplayer :p
16:24<Rubidium>peter1138: that can fast forward... if you modify the server
16:24<@peter1138>yers
16:26<NGC3982>When running a game with breakdowns, would you personally think that using depots as buoyes is cheating?
16:28<@Alberth>does that matter?
16:28<@Alberth>only what you think is fair, counts in SP ;)
16:29-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:31<NGC3982>What i think is irrelevant, im simply curious.
16:33<@peter1138>what i think is that the green glass roof in newstations is pretty ugly
16:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24918 trunk/src/lang/hebrew.txt (2013-01-16 21:38:14 UTC)
16:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix: string validation
16:40<Stimrol>Hello, one thing about the translation files, it is not possible to translate the seperations in the newgrf downloads
16:40<Rubidium>the what?
16:46<Stimrol>Rubidium, sorry noticed to late. This is my fail is checked the newgrf list for the nightly coop and it had this seperation and I thought that it was a part of the code, on second check I figured it was just them :)
16:46<Zuu>Regarding the task of detecting which string parameter that was clicked, I got a working solution yesterday. On LTR languages it seem to work good. On RTL, the click area is a bit off. Still, not all parameter types are supported and I have not had a look on strings from GSes. However, while I have a solution to automatically insert control codes before/after parameters, I'm thinking about instead adding {CLICK1}, {CLICK2} etc. that have to be in
16:46<Zuu>cluded in strings for the few cases when click on strings will be used. This also have the benefit that it can be used in cases when you want to allow click detection on fragments that are not a string parameter.
16:48<Zuu>Of course it may still be possible to both support manual {CLICK#} control codes and automatic codes for parameters, but that makes things a bit more complicated.
16:50<Zuu>(my solution do not use separete codes for begin/end. Instead the same code is repeated to terminate the click area. The idea is that if ICU decide to shuffle around the control codes, that shouldn't break it as long as ICU doesn't decide to remove them)
17:20-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:23<NGC3982>__ln__: I'm trough the first seven episodes of Voyager season 1. First impressions is "I have seen this in my youth" and "Well.. Ok."
17:23<Wolf01>'night
17:24-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:24<@Terkhen>good night :)
17:25<Zuu>Supercheese: If GSes are allowed to construct NewObjects and identify specific objects from specific NewGRFs, then *someone* could maintain a GS library which contain code for using specific NewObjects of specific NewGRFs. This library could then expose a public interface that allows "build station eye candy near station X", "build windmills near X,Y" etc.
17:28<Zuu>Having this information either decentralized in each NewGRF or centralized to just one GS library would avoid that each GS author have to duplicate and maintain code for supporting a number of NewGRFs that players will want to use.
17:37<Supercheese>Oh right, libraries, forgot about those
17:49-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50-!-fonsinchen_ [~fonsinche@brln-4db9cf09.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:52<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/EAZoP.png
17:52<NGC3982>Ah, i love pax lines
17:53<NGC3982>And i now notice i use way too many signals
17:53<Supercheese>use Pikka's finescale tracks n' signals, the signals are nearly invisible :P
17:54<NGC3982>It feels like that will create more problems than it would solve.
17:59-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1AAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:07-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:19-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
18:25-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
18:33-!-joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-150-15.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:35-!-Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:41<__ln__>http://mars-one.com/en/faq-en/21-faq-selection/251-do-i-qualify-to-apply
18:43-!-Superuser [~root@host109-157-97-59.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
18:43<Superuser>welp, help: http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_DEPOT_TRAIN_SELL_TOOLTIP
18:44<Superuser>'Drag train vehicle to here to sell it'? I had no idea you could do this. Do you mean transfer the train instead?
18:45<__ln__>it's still impossible for anyone to view those urls you paste, without being a translator
18:46<__ln__>you've never sold a vehicle in a depot?
18:48<Superuser>I have, but you don't DRAG them there?
18:48<Superuser>you send them there.
18:49<__ln__>i think you're mistaken about the context of that text. please find it in the game and it'll be clear to you.
18:50<Superuser>OOHHHH I GET IT
18:50<Superuser>yeah I just realised where
18:50<Superuser>it's in the menu
18:50<Superuser>the depot menu, herp derp
18:56-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []
18:58-!-Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04f1bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
19:05-!-Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04f1a6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:22<Eddi|zuHause><Zuu> Supercheese: If GSes are allowed to construct NewObjects and identify specific objects from specific NewGRFs, then *someone* could maintain a GS library which contain code for using specific NewObjects of specific NewGRFs. This library could then expose a public interface that allows "build station eye candy near station X", "build windmills near X,Y" etc. <-- sounds rather like an AI-Callback use
19:26<Superuser>so I'm thinking of buying a higher-end Android phone. How is OpenTTD for Android? I hope it uses a UI that scales a bit better to a touchscreen? (the buttons on the window decoration are a tad small)
19:27<NGC3982>It doesn't.
19:27<NGC3982>Does it really exist in an official version?
19:27<NGC3982>It doesn't work at all on my Galaxy S2, but i can't say if that's the phone or me making trouble.
19:27<Superuser>I don't think it's official, but it exists.
19:28-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>there is no special code to handle UI scaling, just use BigGUI grf and adjust font size
19:30<Superuser>have you tried it on an Android phone though? Maybe it scales better than expected Eddi?
19:31*NGC3982 is trying it out right now.
19:31<NGC3982>It doesn't
19:31<NGC3982>It doesn't scale anything
19:31<NGC3982>Maximum resolution creates a square around the mouse pointer, following you on the screen.
19:31<NGC3982>At least that's what i recon so far.
19:32<NGC3982>Ok, i got it to scale
19:32<NGC3982>4:3 ratio, and the graphics are flickering like crazy
19:32<NGC3982>And the MIDI music sounds like someone died.
19:33<NGC3982>Hey
19:33<NGC3982>I actually got it to work
19:33*NGC3982 tries network play.
19:33<NGC3982>Superuser: Are you able to try right now?
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>no, i do not have such a phone
19:34<Superuser>I have a fucking shit phone
19:34<Superuser>HTC Wildfire, the original. Cheapest Android phone ever released to my knowledge
19:34<Superuser>Fucking sucks balls
19:35<Superuser>Piece of shit
19:35<NGC3982>My word, it actually works
19:35<NGC3982>I had no idea
19:35<NGC3982>Superuser: Yes, that is not a well built Android phone, id say.
19:36<Superuser>play some, please tell us of your impressions
19:36<NGC3982>OK
19:36<NGC3982>Ok, let's see
19:36<NGC3982>It scales to my full window
19:36<NGC3982>And i have set it to spyglass view
19:37<NGC3982>That is, as soon as i touch the window, it gives a zoomed block around my pointer
19:37<NGC3982>Not an in-game zoom, but a scaled picture (that shows a similar size block compared to a LCD monitor)
19:37<NGC3982>Two finger movements scrolls the map
19:38<NGC3982>Badly, but it seems to be configurable
19:38<NGC3982>Pinching uses the in-game zoom out
19:40<NGC3982>Hm, allright.
19:40<NGC3982>I guess this can be configurable correctly
19:40<NGC3982>But zooming by pinching and moving on the map with two fingers does create some problems.
19:41<NGC3982>Oh, the return button represent the delete button on a keyboard, by default
19:42<NGC3982>Superuser: I would not use this to actually build anything on a screen as small as this
19:42<NGC3982>But with a tab and a bigger GUI, i wouldnt say there are any problems at all
19:46<NGC3982>Conclusion: On smart phones, it's monitorable. On tabs, fully playable with some configuration.
19:52<Superuser>lol
19:52<Superuser>put that on the ottd roadmap ;)
19:53<Superuser>also NGC3982, no sane defaults? It ships with the normal config?
19:54<NGC3982>The config is what i can se sparse
19:54<NGC3982>I cant find hotkeys, for instance.
19:54<NGC3982>You can activate the keyboard
19:55<NGC3982>But i do not understand how to - for instance - ctrl+click.
19:59-!-joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-150-15.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:59<Superuser>oh I play nethack on my android phone occasionally
20:00<Superuser>you need to use ?123
20:00<Superuser>if I recall correctly
20:00<Superuser>wait let me fish it out of the plug NGC3982
20:00<NGC3982>"?123"?
20:04<Superuser>flr
20:04<Superuser>for* some reason Nethack for Android uses a non-standard android keyboard
20:05<NGC3982>Oh, ok
20:05<Superuser>that is not the Sense UI one that comes with the phone
20:08<Superuser>poo, still trying to find how to press Ctrl
20:08<NGC3982>Hehe, yeah
20:09<NGC3982>This feels more like a fun thing then actual gameplay.
20:10<Superuser>do you think it would work on a tablet, perhaps?
20:11<Superuser>oh okay
20:11<Superuser>NetHack adds a Ctrl button, it's just on the right side of the screen and I didn't notice it lol
20:12<Superuser>note that NetHack is probably the most complicated roguelike of all time. Hence, there is actually a difference between uppercase and lowercase letters, and there are also combinations (e.g. Meta[Alt] and d) and Ctrl+something
20:14-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:17<Superuser>who is the OpenTTD for Android man? Is there an issue tracker for it? FlySpray doesn't accept 'Android' as an OS...
20:20-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d820542.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur]
20:21<Superuser>Argh, sorry, but em, peter1138?
20:21<NGC3982>I managed to set hotkey
20:22<NGC3982>One can bind a hotkey to a physical button
20:22<NGC3982>I chose my settings button
20:22<NGC3982>It works, but is barely usable.
20:22<Supercheese>Pelya is the OTTD Android dude
20:22<Superuser>needs more sane defaults, right?
20:22<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=36345
20:23<Superuser>okay
20:23<Superuser>I guess I have to sign up for the forum
20:23<Supercheese>http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenTTD/
20:23<NGC3982>Superuser: Sane and sane, i wouldn't say it seems possible to make it better than this.
20:24<Superuser>I was unable to log into the forum with my website (e.g. translator) credentials
20:24<Supercheese>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.openttd.sdl
20:24<NGC3982>It's for all i know not a good idea to run a multi-button game in a ..two button phone.
20:24<Superuser>well, if you're going around fixing everything, it's NOT sane
20:24<Supercheese>Android OTTD runs nicely on my 10" Toshiba Thrive tablet
20:24<Superuser>also, I thought Android phones have to have 3 buttons?
20:24<Superuser>used to be 4, like on my old shitty phone
20:25<Supercheese>I dunno, my tablet has on-screen buttons, very few hardware buttons, just for on/off, volume, and screen lock
20:25<NGC3982>Superuser: Well, yeah. But, touch buttons doesn't really work for this, i notice.
20:25<Superuser>who is the integrated for OpenTTD online services Supercheese?
20:25<Supercheese>BaNaNaS ya mean?
20:25<NGC3982>Try holding a touch button while clicking the screen was barely possible
20:25<NGC3982>On the Galaxy S2.
20:25<Superuser>should merge it with the forum
20:25<Supercheese>who should merge which?
20:26<Superuser>forum with BaNaNaS accoutns
20:26<Superuser>a systems administrations expert
20:26<Superuser>administration*
20:26<Supercheese>yes, account merging, been discussed I think
20:26<Supercheese>TrueBrain would be the fellow behind BaNaNaS and the like
20:26<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: maybe a "sticky" button would be better? like you click on it, and the next click counts as ctrl being pressed?
20:27<Supercheese>I dunno what the status is on account linking etc.
20:27<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Absolutely.
20:27<Superuser>btw, this is fucking cool: https://www.samsung.com/in/promotions/galaxycamera/
20:27<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: And i would prefer that button to be choosable, maybe by holding it down for a second.
20:27<Superuser>want one of these so badly. It was actually well-reviewed, which surprised me
20:28<Supercheese>the camera on my tablet works for my picture-taking needs, which are very few and far between :P
20:28<NGC3982>Galaxy Tab 10.1 <- Would that be sufficient for AOpenTTD?
20:29<Superuser>anyway supercheese, I suppose the Android port is unofficial and you don't accept reports for it in FlySpray?
20:29<Supercheese>A correct assumption as far as I am aware
20:31<Superuser>yeah, Android is not listed under the 'Operating System' field, which is probably intentional
20:31<Supercheese>Eddi, any idea what frosch was saying when he mentioned, "Trying to change vehicle properties depending on current date will cause desyncs"?
20:32<Supercheese>(or well, if anyone has further information)
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>he could mean that the power etc. values are cached, so they only change on certain triggers like switching to another railtype, servicing in depot and such
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>so you can't use _current_ date for them, but you could very well use the _service_ date
20:33<Supercheese>Ah, so there would be a difference
20:33<Supercheese>between the two variables
20:34<Supercheese>Then power could be made to decrease as a function of date_of_last_service
20:34<Supercheese>err wait
20:34<Supercheese>hmm
20:34<Supercheese>how to compare
20:36<Supercheese>I could have sword that variable was *days* since last service, not date
20:36<Supercheese>sworn*
20:37<Superuser>OMFG I AM A GENIUS
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather think the supposed desync reason should be solved
20:37<Superuser>NFC3982
20:37<Superuser>Just buy a stylus!!!
20:37<Superuser>you will never be bored on the bus again :)))
20:38<Superuser>also holy shit ottd for android has over 100k downloads
20:38<Superuser>not sure if that includes updates to it
20:38<Supercheese>it probably includes updates
20:38<Supercheese>but I dunno
20:38<Superuser>why kill the dreams ;_;
20:39<Eddi|zuHause>so, who'll be uploading to the windows store? ;p
20:40<Superuser>you need to pay $99
20:40<Supercheese>windows store? I don't want to know...
20:40<Superuser>also I'm not sure if the GPL is allowed on the Windows store
20:40<Supercheese>probably not
20:40<Superuser>VLC had to relicense to LGPL, for instance
20:41<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: it's the same as the apple store, just for windows...
20:41<Eddi|zuHause>not that i have used either one...
20:41<Supercheese>I will continue to not use it, then
20:42<Supercheese>them*
20:42<APTX>I wonder why people care about the windows store
20:42<Supercheese>Google play store's the only thing of that kind I use
20:42<APTX>it's for metro apps and metro is crap
20:42<Supercheese>and I only ever download free stuff
20:43<Superuser>it's also for games, and games don't have to use Microsoft's proprietary technologies
20:43<Superuser>the app store and games store are separate.
20:43<Superuser>Also VLC successfully crowdfunded a port to Windows 8 Metro which amongst other things created a mingw-64 compiler
20:43<Superuser>a serious one at least
20:44<Superuser>BTW, this is hilarious: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/16/open_source_stifles_innovation/
20:44<Superuser>open source is communist and unamerican!! (quote from microsoft man)
20:44<Supercheese>Micro$oft, no surprise there
20:47<Superuser>no wonder oftc's domain ends in .su huehuehue
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: that was 12 years ago...
20:47<Superuser>doubt they've changed much
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>that was when linux was The Evil, not apple
20:48<Supercheese>Good lord, strange to realize 2001 was 12 years ago
20:49<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: the typical counterargument to "opensource is unamerican" is: "yeah, that's why BSD stands for Berkley Software Development"
20:50<Superuser>Distribution. It's distribution.
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>surely that was the point i was trying to make :p
20:52<glx><Superuser> Also VLC successfully crowdfunded a port to Windows 8 Metro which amongst other things created a mingw-64 compiler <-- mingw-w64 existed way before
20:55<Supercheese>Hmm, I can't seem to find a way to check if a newobject is built at the map edge...
20:56-!-MinchinWeb [~MinchinWe@S01066431505f320b.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
20:56<MinchinWeb>anyone know how to get a list of just tram depots using NoAI?
20:57<Supercheese>I don't see any map-position variables available
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: stations and industries certainly have it, but industry tiles or object tiles... no idea
21:00<Supercheese>Industries have it?
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>MinchinWeb: valuate the list of road depots by the roadtype?
21:01<Supercheese>I don't see any absolute-map-position variables anywhere, only positions relative to the top tile of the object/industry
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>ah. for stations it's inaccessible because 80+ variables only start at offset 10
21:04<MinchinWeb>Eddi|zuHause: I'll try it, thanks
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>for industries it's var 80
21:05<Supercheese>What is that in NML? :P
21:07<Supercheese>Oh, right, there's a var() function
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: also, the map edge consists of VOID tiles, so the land info variable should be able to tell you that
21:09<Supercheese>Ah, yes perhaps
21:13<Superuser>glx: okay, that's just what they said for their Kickstarter campaign
21:13<Superuser>though it may have been 'making it decent' or something like that
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>it wasn't that long ago that mingw64 came with a warning sign like "totally broken, do not use"
21:17<Supercheese>wait, there are only void tiles at the bottom edges of the map?
21:18<glx>I would try it if I wasn't afraid to break my working mingw/msys install
21:18-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
21:22<MinchinWeb>ok, next (dumb) question, how do you get the location of a depot?
21:25<MinchinWeb>so I think I figured this out... AIDepotList() gives you a list of tiles, rather than DepotID's
21:25<MinchinWeb>so I'm starting with a location rather than a ID... much easier :)
21:40-!-Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-50dd93-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
21:42<Supercheese>Huh, there's no TILE_CLASS_VOID in NML, but a value of 0x07 seems to be just that
22:02-!-SimKill [~SimKill@109.161.244.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04-!-Superuser [~root@host109-157-97-59.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:08-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-000-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
22:26<Supercheese>No, void tiles exist all around the map
22:26<Supercheese>Thanks Eddi, I have the check for void tiletype working :)
22:35-!-Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
22:42-!-Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
22:52-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
23:25<Supercheese>Hmm, seems I accidentally confused a user whose name begins with trainmaster with a user whose name begins with trainman
23:44-!-MinchinWeb [~MinchinWe@S01066431505f320b.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
---Logclosed Thu Jan 17 00:00:04 2013