Back to Home / #openttd / 2013 / 01 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-17

---Logopened Thu Jan 17 00:00:04 2013
00:29-!-Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:30-!-Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
00:30*Supercheese wonders just how random nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0)) % some_number is
00:30<Supercheese>Bah, ignore that extra parenthesis
00:32<Rubidium>at best it's pseudo random
00:33<Supercheese>It works fine, I'm just curious
00:40<Supercheese>Hmm, O hotkey for object placement not global by default
00:40*Supercheese edits hotkeys.cfg
00:43<Supercheese>Man, I cannot figure this out, why are my objects' ambient sound effects only playing in temperate, and not in arctic or tropic? What could possibly be going wrong? :S
00:43<Supercheese>Some weird things in sound effect IDs?
00:48<Supercheese>Perhaps NML is retuning the wrong number(s) in the high bytes
00:49*Supercheese inspects NML source
00:52-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-114-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67655.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
00:58-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:07<Supercheese>Hmm, I guess it would help if I knew NFO, but meh...
01:11<Supercheese>Or hmm, maybe it's a bug with OTTD
01:18-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:31-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:52-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
01:52-!-Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:53-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
01:53-!-Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
02:00-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:00-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
02:01-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-100-013.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
02:10-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
02:10-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
02:13-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
02:13-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd []
02:14-!-Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd
02:15-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-114-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:32-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
02:37<Supercheese>Oh dang, the sound effect issue is related to having too many grfs, it seems
02:38-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
02:40<@peter1138>what's the error?
02:42<Supercheese>Well, I have a modified version of OTTD, and when I load a game with a bunch of grfs, the ambient sound effects for my objects set only play in temperate, and they fail to play in tropic and arctic
02:42<Supercheese>probable some strange bug related to having too many grfs loaded, methinks
02:43<Supercheese>nothing to file a bug report over, it seems
02:43<@peter1138>sound effect ids are 16 bits, so unless you managed to get 65535 sounds, that's unlikely
02:43<@peter1138>enable grf debug messages and see if that says anything
02:44<Supercheese>-d 1 grf ?
02:45<@peter1138>-d grf=1
02:45<Supercheese>k
02:46<@peter1138>you will get messages about each grf
02:46<Supercheese>FIRS spamming the window with messages
02:46<Supercheese>should remove that
02:47<Supercheese>Jeez, lots of grfs are spamming messages
02:47<Supercheese>scrolling the rest off -_-
02:47<@peter1138>yeah that firs message should be disabled
02:47<@peter1138>ottd being too verbose
02:48<Supercheese>Long vehicles zillion messages...
02:48<Supercheese>old grf though
02:48<@peter1138>wow someone uses long vehicles? :p
02:48<Supercheese>You should know me by now, I use more than 64 grfs
02:49<@peter1138>what??/
02:49<@peter1138>why?
02:50<Supercheese>Because I like a lot of grfs
02:50<@peter1138>i use about a dozen tops :S
02:50<Supercheese>and few people offer all-in-one versions
02:50<Supercheese>As I mentioned earlier, that may be what's causing the error
02:51<@peter1138>it shouldn't
02:51<Supercheese>aha
02:51<Supercheese>Object.SetEntitySpec: Too many objects allocated.
02:52<Supercheese>see, it is the reason :P
02:52<Supercheese>removing some grfs resolves it
02:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24919 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2013-01-17 07:53:17 UTC)
02:53<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Remove useless noisy grf debug messages.
02:53<Supercheese>Yep, too many objects in too many grfs
02:54<@peter1138>ok so your sounds aren't working because the objects aren't being loaded
02:54<Supercheese>well, the objects at the front are being loaded
02:54<@peter1138>unless your sounds are unrelated to objects
02:54<Supercheese>but their sounds aren't working
02:54<Supercheese>lemme double check some stuff
02:56<Supercheese>Yeah, when too many objects try to load, the ones that do successfully load have problems with their sound effects
02:56<Supercheese>probably even in trunk, lemme check that
02:58<Supercheese>Anyway, grfs I use: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=166641
02:59<Supercheese>actually, that list is old, I've changed a few
02:59<@peter1138>i should never have implemented multiple vehicle set support :S
03:01<Supercheese>:P
03:04<Supercheese>Hmm, no trunk loads the sfx fine
03:04<Supercheese>problem with the modified version, it seems
03:04<Supercheese>good to know basically no one but me will have the problem, then :P
03:10<Supercheese>OBJECT_CLASS_MAX = 32
03:10<@peter1138>unrelated
03:10<Supercheese>is that what determines...
03:10<Supercheese>ok nevermind
03:11<@peter1138>number of classes, doesn't limit the number of objects
03:11<@peter1138>probably could be increased though
03:12<@peter1138>those 32 limits are usually due to dropdownlist sizes originally
03:12<Supercheese>GUI changed since then, yes?
03:12<@peter1138>nah, i think dropdownlists were improved before objects
03:12<@peter1138>but the limit would've been carried over from station classes which was also 32
03:13<Supercheese>didn't that limit increase though?
03:13<@peter1138>yes, after
03:13<@peter1138>try changing it, see what happens :p
03:13<Supercheese>STAT_CLASS_MAX = 256
03:13<Supercheese>changed to OBJECT_CLASS_MAX = 256
03:13<Supercheese>compiling...
03:18<Supercheese>compiled, launching
03:19<Supercheese>no change, same problem
03:19<@peter1138>longer list?
03:19<Supercheese>same size list
03:19<Supercheese>so total number, not class number
03:19<Supercheese>where was that defined...
03:20<@peter1138>in the map probably
03:22<@peter1138>yeah, 256 objects max
03:22<@peter1138>cos it's stored in a byte
03:22<@peter1138>that includes the default objects
03:22<@peter1138>transmitters and whatnot
03:22-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd
03:23<Supercheese>ObjectType NUM_OBJECTS = 256
03:23<Supercheese>increasing that possible/not?
03:23<Supercheese>uint16 hmm
03:23<@peter1138>no
03:25<Supercheese>that shouldn't be the limiting factor
03:26<Supercheese>the uint16 I mean
03:32<Supercheese>Huh, raising that object limit removed the "too many objects loaded" message, but the sfx still don't play
03:33<Supercheese>ah well, like I said, they work in trunk
03:35<@peter1138>pretty much none of those objects sets are on bananas. sad.
03:35<Supercheese>yeah, though one is my own
03:35<Supercheese>still developing it, planning for release and bananas
03:36<@peter1138>i know that
03:36-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
03:36<Supercheese>the rest... yeah, unfortunate
03:39-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.]
03:42<@peter1138>a good proportion of all the grfs on that list aren't
03:42<Supercheese>Yeah, I'm just checking now
03:42<Supercheese>Let's see, mb doesn't use Bananas, Simuscape-folk don't use Bananas...
03:42-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:43<@peter1138>simuscape-folk don't even want you to know what's there without signing up
03:43<Supercheese>Quast65 could perhaps be convinced to Banana-up
03:43<Supercheese>have to poke him
03:43<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i think signing up doesn't even suffice for most stuff
03:43<Supercheese>signing up + post in the welcome thread
03:44<@peter1138>crazy
03:44<Supercheese>"It won't be on Bananas (yet), there are still some things I would like to add before I might consider posting it there."
03:44<Supercheese>so he at least is planning on it
03:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't want to go out there today... :/
03:46-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:46<Supercheese>Quast65 = poked
03:47-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
03:47<Supercheese>Hmm, wallyweb doesn't banana, does he
03:49<Supercheese>wait, why are VAST objects not on Bananas?
03:56<Supercheese>@seen zero.eight
03:56<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: I have not seen zero.eight.
03:56<Supercheese>"Last visited TT-forums: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:44 am"
03:56<Supercheese>that might be why...
03:57<Supercheese>@seen dnicholls
03:57<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: dnicholls was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 0 weeks, 3 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <dnicholls> planetmaker: re VAST, better to talk about it in devzone channel?
03:57<Supercheese>1 year!
03:57<Supercheese>wait, there's a devzone channel?
03:58<Supercheese>he doesn't mean #openttd.dev does he?
03:58<Supercheese>#openttdcoop.devzone ah
03:58<@peter1138>probably
03:58<@peter1138>devzone isn't an openttd thing
04:08<Ammler>1year back, there was no .dev
04:08<Supercheese>Aye
04:09<Ammler>devzone is quite much a openttd thing, maybe not a openttd.org thing :-P
04:10<Supercheese>Openttd* thing, just reg expression 'em all together
04:16<Supercheese>Hmmmm, what is the NARS license
04:17<Ammler>some private pikka license, like no license
04:18<Ammler>you need to read it carefully and maybe ask pikka before you reuse parts of his work
04:18<Supercheese>asked
04:18<Supercheese>or rather
04:18*Supercheese asked
04:22-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:28<@peter1138>Pikka :D
04:28<Supercheese>Apparently it's DanMacK I need to ask
04:28-!-joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-137-43-70.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
04:28<@peter1138>hmm
04:28<Supercheese>I'm a tad too sleepy now to craft a proper private message, so I'll see if he responds to the thread
04:28<@peter1138>maybe i should reset my nightly server
04:30<Supercheese>Well, time to hit the hay
04:30<Supercheese>Pulsare fenum :D
04:30*Supercheese doubts the Romans used that idiom
04:31<Supercheese>Ceterum, valete omnes
04:31-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]]
04:31<@peter1138>hurr, i modernised my fleet
04:32<@peter1138>making £5m per year instead of £1m
04:32<@peter1138>aw look, scuddles network is jammed again
04:38-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:38-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
04:38<joey8>carpe dieum ヅ
04:45-!-valhalla1w [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
04:47-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:48-!-joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-137-43-70.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:52-!-valhalla1w [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:54-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
05:02<@peter1138>anyone up for making a realistic airport newgrf? :p
05:02<@peter1138>huge wide long runways!
05:02-!-APTX [~APTX@87-206-254-167.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:02-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:04-!-Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-35-85.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:04-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
05:04<Nat_aS>ugh. that would be horrible
05:04<@peter1138>quite
05:05<Nat_aS>because it would make all the other scale issues in OTTD more oubvious
05:05<Nat_aS>that's my reaction to any sugestion involving realistic scales :p
05:08-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:34<__ln__>http://nordpilen.se/forum/showthread.php?tid=2287
05:35-!-Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-50dd93-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:35<@peter1138>what a mess
05:36-!-APTX [~APTX@87-206-254-167.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd
06:06-!-Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-35-85.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
06:08<Pikka>i'll make an unrealistic one, peter1138
06:13<@peter1138>\o/
06:13<@peter1138>i'm winning :D
06:13<Pikka>D:
06:13<@peter1138>soon to be passing AtN in value
06:15<@peter1138>i did a beeching
06:15<Pikka>you filthy swine you
06:17<@peter1138>hmm
06:18<@peter1138>tai_uk_houses-gamma1/tai_uk.grf defines house 36 with different house size than it's substitute type. Disabling house.
06:18<@peter1138>well that's inconsiderate
06:23<Pikka>yes
06:24-!-DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:25-!-APTX [~APTX@87-206-254-167.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:30-!-Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
06:30<Pikka>I suppose I should fix that or something?
06:31<@peter1138>i dunno
06:42<Pikka>does it really say "it's substitute type"? tut tut :)
06:45-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:45*Maedhros tries svn blame, hoping that wasn't his fault
06:45<@peter1138>Pikka, yes :p
06:45<Maedhros>Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.org': Network is unreachable
06:45<Maedhros>seems i can live in ignorance for a while longer! ;)
06:46<@peter1138>indeed
06:47<@peter1138>and web
06:51-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: is that the train the cleaning lady stole?
06:55<__ln__>yep
07:05<Ammler>Maedhros: we run a svn convert here: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/svn.openttd.org
07:12<SpComb>peter1138: you\
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>author yexo Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:30:31 +0000 (2010-08-24) (svn r20611) -Fix: disable newgrf houses that have a different size then their substitute type
07:12<SpComb>peter1138: you\re still playing that same game?
07:12<@peter1138>hg smells!
07:12<@peter1138>yes
07:12<SpComb>have I gone bankrupt yet?
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>the original svn could probably have been restored if hg or git were around back then :p
07:14<@peter1138>nah
07:16-!-Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-35-85.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>i suspect frosch123's prospected desync reason would be solved by storing the cached power/speed/etc. in the savegame
07:23<@peter1138>yes
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>at least for network games
07:32-!-Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
07:37-!-APTX [~APTX@87-206-254-167.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd
08:03-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:04-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
08:06<V453000>website down? :d
08:07<V453000>anyway, I have a friend who would like to do some translations, where should I send him? :)
08:13-!-tomlane [~tomlane@212.219.8.109] has joined #openttd
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the link that ammler gave contains all the translations
08:13<V453000>svn?
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>so, where is TrueBrain, anyway?
08:14-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
08:16-!-tomlane [~tomlane@212.219.8.109] has quit []
08:40<Ammler>peter1138: michi_cc has somewhere a git convert too
08:42<+michi_cc>I have :) Clone of the offical repo at http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/trunk.git and clone of the full svn (with all tags/branches) at http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/svn_mirror.git
08:43<Ammler>V453000: you need to wait until the web is up again, then you should find translations.openttd.org
08:43<V453000>right :)
08:44<Ammler>or translator
08:44<SpComb>it's broken!
08:44<Ammler>I guess, the frontpage will have a link
08:56-!-Superuser [~root@host86-152-172-169.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
08:58-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.190.108] has joined #openttd
09:17<@peter1138>i just sshed to the wrong ip on my home network
09:17<@peter1138>to my phone by mistake
09:17<@peter1138>it worked :S
09:22<@Belugas>hello
09:26-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
09:32<NGC3982>Ok
09:32<NGC3982>I admit
09:32<NGC3982>NUTS was nice.
09:34<@peter1138>but not any more?
09:35<NGC3982>..
09:37-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-100-013.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
09:38<NGC3982>peter1138: I used to feel a bit relucant on playing with it. The names made it feel childish, or something.
09:38<NGC3982>But after trying it over-night, i notice it's very well built.
09:40<@peter1138>i see
09:40-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-100-013.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
09:41*NGC3982 has also soon finished season 1 of Voyager.
09:41<NGC3982>No time wasted here, aight.
09:42-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
09:42-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
09:44<MNIM>riiiight
09:45-!-Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:59-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd
10:01-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:01-!-roadt [~roadt@60.168.86.166] has joined #openttd
10:08-!-Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
10:12<@peter1138>heh
10:12<@peter1138>so switch to git and use github ? :p
10:15<blathijs>\o/
10:15<@peter1138>;)
10:15-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:15<@peter1138>Pikka, oil-fired powerstations!
10:16<Superuser>you could switch to git, just don't use github ;)
10:16<Superuser>don't you agree it's a bit hypocritical to host open source software on a closed-source service?
10:22<Pokka>TaI has them
10:22<Pokka>in tropic
10:23<Pokka>I think my plan for the economic industries was to have power stations accept either coal or (fuel)oil
10:24<@peter1138>bah, pikka's still winning by performance rating
10:25<Pokka>like ein boss
10:26<Pokka>917 is it
10:26<Pokka>shame the server's down so I can't get it
10:26<@peter1138>864
10:26<@peter1138>oh revision
10:26<@peter1138>24917 yes :S
10:26<@peter1138>perf rating is 864, heh
10:26<@peter1138>mine is a measly 793
10:26<Pokka>hooray
10:27<@peter1138>i feel the need to spend some money
10:27<@peter1138>£185m is a bit much
10:28<Pokka>there we go, direct mirror link
10:28<@peter1138>hmm, would be nice to assign platform priorities
10:28<Superuser>sounds like discrimination
10:28<Pokka>that's what wejpoints are for
10:28<Pokka>or programmable signals hue hue
10:29<@peter1138>yes well
10:29<Pokka>doh
10:29<Pokka>can't download av8 because the content server is down :)
10:29<@peter1138>:S
10:29<Pokka>no joining the server for me
10:30<@peter1138>get it from the mirror!
10:31<Pokka>this would require me to know where on the mirror it is?
10:32<@peter1138>hmm
10:32<Pokka>if the bananas files are on this mirror at all :)
10:32<Pokka>oh
10:33<Pokka>of course, I could just unzip it from the file I uploaded to bananas, which is sitting on my desktop :)
10:33<@peter1138>yes
10:33<Pokka>but that would be too easy!
10:40-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:00<SpComb>svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.org': Connection refused
11:00<SpComb>:(
11:00<@peter1138>banned
11:00<SpComb>what is this sillyness, my git repo does not contain r24917 either!
11:01<SpComb>I demand that git also contain all future commits
11:06<SpComb>but ugh, cloning an svn nightly from git to join a server is nasty
11:06<SpComb>wrong version string there
11:07<Pokka>spcomb: http://us.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/nightlies/trunk/index.html
11:08<SpComb>true dat
11:08<@peter1138>it's up now
11:08<Pokka>is it
11:08<@peter1138>yes it is
11:08<Pokka>so it is
11:08<@peter1138>time to update my git head :p
11:09<Pokka>filthy swine
11:09<@peter1138>Rubidium, thanks :D
11:09<SpComb>can we thundering-herd it back down again?
11:10<@peter1138>no, cos git isn't working
11:10<SpComb>nor is svn up
11:10<@peter1138>is for me ;)(
11:10<SpComb>hmm
11:10<@peter1138>might be something to do with a special url
11:10<@planetmaker>hg is up
11:12<SpComb>my svn is just hanging, not even dying on kill
11:14<Superuser>>2013
11:14-!-FlyingFoXy [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd
11:14<Superuser>>still using Subversion
11:14<SpComb>Superuser: it's built into the multiplayer protocol, effectively :(
11:15-!-FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:15<@peter1138>yeah each command you do is a commitr
11:15<@peter1138>-r
11:16-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:17<Superuser>no way jose
11:17<@peter1138>not quite
11:31<Pokka>I won!
11:47-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.190.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:52-!-ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
11:53<ZxBiohazardZx>is it possible to create a set of sprites from a 3d model (for "original ttd" not the 32bpp replacement stuff)
11:54<ZxBiohazardZx>or will it look strange?
11:54<Superuser>it is possible, but they'd suck
11:54<Superuser>basically you're saying you want 8-bit pre-rendered 3d models ZxBiohazardZx?
11:54<Superuser>and you don't need the zs and xs, this is not xbox live boy
11:55<ZxBiohazardZx>i have a 3d model (blender/3dsmax) and im curisous to see if it can become a ingame useable
11:55<ZxBiohazardZx>as everyone uses paint and that i simply suck at :)
11:55<Pokka>plenty of sets, and I suspect plenty of the original graphics, are rendered 3d models
11:56<blathijs>ZxBiohazardZx: Is there any particular reason you want to stick to 8bpp and not just use 32bpp?
11:56<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz
11:56<blathijs>Pokka: The original TTD graphics were created pixel art, IIRC
11:56<ZxBiohazardZx>32bpp set is wip wip wip?
11:56<ZxBiohazardZx>and most sets i see use pixel-based stuff
11:57<@peter1138>av8?
11:57<Pokka>there are plenty of artifacts and general oddness in the original graphics that makes me think at least some of them are 3d-derived, blathijs.
11:57<Markk>FIRS!
11:57<Markk>"Stanley is also home to the Falkland Islands Radio Station (FIRS)"
11:58<Pokka>3d isn't great for doing trains and RVs because they have an inconsistent scale in different views
11:58<Pokka>for houses/landscapes/industries/whatever, ships and aircraft it should be fine.
11:58<@peter1138>that's why the original vehicles are 28 pixels long, probably
11:58<ZxBiohazardZx>meh i hate the new blender btw
11:59<Pokka>yes
11:59<ZxBiohazardZx>i am too used to the older version:P
11:59<Pokka>use the older version then, ZxBiohazardZx
11:59<ZxBiohazardZx>2.65 vs 0.49 is a huge step haha
11:59<@peter1138>imho we should've moved the parts closer together instead of stretching the graphics to 32px
11:59<ZxBiohazardZx>nah just have to get used to it again:P
11:59<ZxBiohazardZx>i found some nice building tutorials im trying
11:59<ZxBiohazardZx>the first one works out damn nice
11:59<Pokka>peter1138, it's not too late? :)
12:00<@peter1138>Pokka, i think it is
12:00<Pokka>:)
12:01<Pokka>you'd have to make them "closer together" only in the _ and | views, of course
12:01<blathijs>Pokka: Perhaps rendered and then hand-edited, dunno :-)
12:01<@peter1138>it would, perhaps, get rid of that weird issue with the length of trains on corners
12:02<Pokka>and you'd need to adjust the relative speeds of vehicles in \ and - views...
12:02<@peter1138>it's already adjusted in - & | views
12:02<@peter1138>just needs to be adjusted differently
12:03<Pokka>:)
12:03<Pokka>well, if we had proper perspective train lengths
12:03<@peter1138>and also break every single newgrf!
12:03<Pokka>yes
12:03<@peter1138>except dbsetxl
12:03<Pokka>wot larks
12:04<Pokka>well
12:04<Pokka>I'd have thought we'd stick with 32px as standard 8/8 length :P
12:04<@peter1138>return (this->direction & 1) ? 192 : 256;
12:04<@peter1138>hmm
12:05<Pokka>so every set will end up with gaps between vehicles in the \ views
12:05<@peter1138>stretch that way? hmm
12:05<Pokka>if you're keeping the /8 train length measurements
12:06<Pokka>and 1/8 = 4px in the horizontal views
12:06<Pokka>otherwise, 1/8 becomes 3px in the horizontal view :D
12:07-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
12:08<Pokka>although perhaps that's a better idea after all
12:08<Pokka>if it allows keeping 1/8 2px in the diagonals
12:09<Pokka>otherwise it ends up being some odd fraction in the diagonals :)
12:10-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:10<Pokka>and also of course it means a standard-length vehicle still fits 2 to a station tile
12:10<Pokka>yeah, squashing the _ views is definitely better
12:11-!-LordAro [d92b7721@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:11<LordAro>hey all
12:12<LordAro>heads up Truebrain/Rubidium: download pages are still broken
12:12<LordAro>e.g. http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r24917/openttd-trunk-r24917-windows-win64.zip
12:13-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
12:13<LordAro>balancer is not started?
12:18<@peter1138>LordAro, thanks. we're aware it's not all up & running. just waiting for TrueBrain to become available to resolve it
12:19-!-ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd []
12:20<+glx>LordAro: http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/nightlies/trunk/r24917/openttd-trunk-r24917-windows-win64.zip
12:21<@peter1138>Pokka, way too much work to bother with :p
12:21<LordAro>I'm aware that you're aware of it, i've been following the logs, and i noticed the whole lot was broken earlier :)
12:21<LordAro>i didn't see anything about anything still being broken in the logs, so i came and notified you :)
12:22<LordAro>glx: ta, but it was just an example, i don't actually need it :L
12:22<+glx>luckily we have mirrors for downloads, but of course the redirection is broken for now
12:28-!-hanshoi [hanshoi@kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd
12:29<@Terkhen>hello
12:31<hanshoi>hi
12:32-!-Superuser [~root@host86-152-172-169.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:33<hanshoi>I'm thinking of adding some addons or spicing up my server. Now having a non-stop server with hard settings. It kinda gets boring after a player have gotten upperhand, and aeroplanes are bit too simple and high profit for my liking.
12:33<hanshoi>So do you have any suggestions or server setups you have found to work well?
12:33-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
12:38<hanshoi>I was thinking of adding nightly restarts, taking difficulty up a notch, downgrading aeroplane profits somehow (?), adding some statistics to a web site (?).
12:39<@Terkhen>for somewhat fixing the aircraft issue I like to enable infrastructure costs
12:40<@Terkhen>I can't help you much with the others, I usually play single player and I never hosted a server
12:41<hanshoi>how does infastructure costs work?
12:44<Pokka>probably, peter1138
12:50-!-m4as [m4as@bac69-7-88-160-24-207.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
12:52<m4as>Hi guys! i'd like to know if having a "502 Bad Gateway" is normal when i want to download http://binaries.openttd.org/releases/1.2.3/openttd-1.2.3-windows-win64.zip? thanks!
12:53<V453000>it is just some temp issue m4as I think
12:53<m4as>ok, i'll try again later! ty
12:54<+glx>m4as: http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/releases/1.2.3/openttd-1.2.3-windows-win64.zip
12:55<@Terkhen>hanshoi: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57293 <--- it is a patch thread but the patch has been included for some time
12:57<hanshoi>looks hc
12:57<m4as>thanks glx :)
12:58<hanshoi>that affects everything else as well. Doesn't it mean that everything goes down in proportion. That aeroplanes are as good as before compared to the rest?
12:59-!-LordAro [d92b7721@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
13:03<@peter1138>it's not linear
13:04<@peter1138>although my infrastructure costs are minimal :S
13:04<hanshoi>meaning that airports get "taxed" harder that roads?
13:05<@peter1138>yeah
13:05<@peter1138>hmm, snowing :S
13:12<@Terkhen>yes, they are
13:12<@Terkhen>check the thread, IIRC it is explained there
13:13<@Terkhen>I don't know the details :P
13:14-!-iconstil [~Bojo@195-38-126-225.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
13:14<iconstil>anyone here?
13:14<iconstil>i cant download the latest version
13:15<iconstil>nginx server bad gateway problem
13:16<iconstil>can anyone send me the binary? :D
13:18-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
13:19-!-bassals [~53390ad1@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
13:19<Maedhros>iconstil: depends on what you mean by "latest", but there seems to be a mirror here: http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/
13:19<iconstil>thanks
13:19<iconstil>i mean the 'normal' latest , not the nightly or such
13:20<iconstil>does it works for you ?
13:20<iconstil>i mean the download
13:20<+glx>use the mirror
13:20<iconstil>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable
13:20<iconstil>but is it just me or ...?
13:20<Maedhros>no, it's everyone
13:20<iconstil>thanks
13:21<+glx>stable is in releases/1.2.3
13:22<iconstil>found it thanks again for the help
13:22-!-iconstil [~Bojo@195-38-126-225.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:22-!-Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:31<dihedral>oi
13:31-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BB2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:36<Eddi|zuHause><Pokka> so every set will end up with gaps between vehicles in the \ views <-- that totally breaks trains fitting in stations and stuff
13:38-!-andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:48<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it's okay, nothing is going to change
13:48<@peter1138>not while the tile resolution is 16 units
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>CETS would certainly break horribly if anything is changed, though :)
13:52-!-DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
13:52-!-mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
13:52*TrueBrain hugs DorpsGek
13:52<TrueBrain>silly boy
13:52<TrueBrain>don't go hide now
13:52<TrueBrain>it is not needed
13:52<TrueBrain>you can play with us
13:52<TrueBrain>like the rest o us
13:52<TrueBrain>we won't bite
13:52<TrueBrain>mostly
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes :p
13:53<TrueBrain>@whoami
13:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: TrueBrain
13:53<TrueBrain>@reload openttd
13:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: There was no plugin openttd.
13:53<TrueBrain>@reload XMLRPC
13:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:53<TrueBrain>@load openttd
13:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:53<TrueBrain>@reload XMLRPC
13:53<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:53<TrueBrain>now whos a good boy
13:53<TrueBrain>you want a cookie?
13:53<@DorpsGek>purrs
13:54<TrueBrain>any other services not online?
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>my grub is still broken :p
13:54<TrueBrain>any othe ropenttd.org related services not online?
13:56-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d54c9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:57-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
13:57-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9029:b64e:2a7d:d20d] has joined #openttd
13:57-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
13:58<@peter1138><3 TrueBrain
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>group hug for our favourite sysadmin!
13:58-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:59<TrueBrain>:D:D
14:00<@Terkhen>:)
14:04-!-andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:22-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
14:22<Wolf01>hello
14:24<@peter1138>hmm, openttd -g loads the intro game these days :S
14:25<@SmatZ>peter1138: strange, it starts a new game for me
14:25<@peter1138>it starts a new game after loading the intro game
14:26<@SmatZ>ah, yes
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>hasn't it always done that?
14:27<@SmatZ>I think one has to first load the intro game so the newgrf scan can be shown
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, previously it probably also loaded the game, but hasn't shown anything
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>"22 months without probation for using a megaphone"
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>democracy is going to hell these days :/
14:29<@peter1138>no, before the newgrf scan window, it didn't load the intro game with -g
14:30<Maedhros>does downloading newgrfs within openttd work for anyone else at the moment? or is that still known to be down?
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>Maedhros: talk to TrueBrain :)
14:33<@peter1138>hmm, where's my multimeter... just got a shock from a usb connector
14:33-!-Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:34<@peter1138>the shielding part
14:44-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:47<__ln__>now they're saying the cleaning lady possibly accidentally caused the train to move, not with the intention of stealing it
14:50<andythenorth>TrueBrain: how do I hire a sysadmin? :P
14:50<andythenorth>what makes sysadmins tick?
14:50<andythenorth>developers I understand :P
14:51<@Terkhen>when you want to hire someone, offers of money usually work
14:52<NGC3982>Carrots and kernel bugs.
14:55<andythenorth>money I have
14:55<andythenorth>but in the UK, hiring is very hard
14:55<andythenorth>we have many more open tech jobs than people to fill them
14:55<andythenorth>assuming you want good people that is :P
14:55-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:57<NGC3982>I thought it was the exact opposite?
14:57<NGC3982>Ah
14:57<NGC3982>That last part might explain it.
14:58-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.190.108] has joined #openttd
15:02<bassals>excuse me andythenorth
15:02<bassals>I feel as I am always late
15:02<bassals>but would you accept an updated translation file for FIRS?
15:03<andythenorth>yup
15:03<Maedhros>heh, well i'm hardly TrueBrain, but i'm open to any offers of employment going...
15:03-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:03<frosch123>andythenorth: make sure there are enough power sockets for both the servers and the coffee machine
15:03<andythenorth>what are servers? o_O
15:03<andythenorth>we're trying to make servers go away
15:04<andythenorth>:P
15:04<frosch123>good strategy, makes more room for coffee machines
15:04<andythenorth>exactly
15:04<andythenorth>spending money owning servers is a waste
15:04<andythenorth>that could be spent on good coffee
15:05<andythenorth>'use the cloud, drink more coffee'
15:05<bassals>andythenorth: is this okay?
15:05<bassals>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2051/
15:05<andythenorth>sounds like devops borat :P
15:06<andythenorth>hmm
15:06<andythenorth>FIRS needs a translations manager :P
15:06*andythenorth has constant unicode 'oops'
15:06<bassals>yes, I did not want to mess with the encodings (-_-)
15:09<Eddi|zuHause><__ln__> now they're saying the cleaning lady possibly accidentally caused the train to move, not with the intention of stealing it <-- obviously that is way more likely, the "stealing" was invented by some overnight journalist and the whole worldwide press just copied that without checking any facts
15:10<__ln__>facts are boring
15:12<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> andythenorth: make sure there are enough power sockets for both the servers and the coffee machine <-- vacuum cleaners are important also :p
15:12<andythenorth>?
15:12<Pikka>andythenorth: pick me, I can drink coffee :D
15:12<andythenorth>Pikka: are you in an australian timezone?
15:12<Pikka>only one of them
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>s/timezone/sleeping pattern/ :p
15:12<andythenorth>Pikka: you have funny timezones
15:13<andythenorth>setting servers up their for daylight savings is a fun game
15:13<andythenorth>their / there /s
15:13<Pikka>Eh
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>make servers UTC, handle timezones client-side :)
15:13<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: still has to be done right :P
15:14<Pikka>we're used to everyone assuming we all live in NSW or Victoria
15:14<andythenorth>yeah doesn't go so well in WA
15:14<andythenorth>and not if you're running apps which have to do statutory compliance stff wrt time :P
15:15<Pikka>silly WA
15:15<andythenorth>:)
15:15<andythenorth>Pikka: which are you better at, sysadmin or coffee?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>i hate coffee. but i'd probably not make a good sysadmin either
15:16<SpComb>andythenorth: you just switch over and recruit for a devops position, not a sysadmin
15:16<andythenorth>SpComb: the downside of that is lots of people think devops is a silly buzzword
15:16<andythenorth>which creates hiring problems
15:16<Pikka>the latter would help with the former
15:17<Pikka>the latte, too. hoho.
15:17<andythenorth>ho ho
15:18<andythenorth>omg
15:18<andythenorth>look what lego did here
15:18<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: lots of failed mathematicans become sysadmins
15:19<andythenorth>original http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=671-1
15:19<andythenorth>new fangled http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=6695-1
15:19<frosch123>and even if they are bad, they are still average
15:19<andythenorth>they introduced doors!
15:19<andythenorth>I tell you, lego is going downhill
15:19<andythenorth>kids of 1984 have no need of imagination
15:19<andythenorth>lego have ruined themselves and are surely going out of business
15:20<Pikka>meh
15:20<andythenorth>doors are a specialist part with limited reusability elsewhere
15:20<Pikka>rubber tyres and minifigs
15:20<Pikka>lego was better when it was all 2x4 blocks
15:21<Pikka>in 5 colours
15:24<@peter1138>yes
15:26<@peter1138>sorry but it is all themed crap now
15:29<Pikka>harry potter and the temple of dosh
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>you guys had 5 colours? my eastern lego-knockoff had two colours: red and slightly faded red
15:30<Pikka>andythenorth: I've read a couple of job ads in my time
15:31<Pikka>you're definitely in the minority if you believe silly buzzwords are to be avoided when hiring
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>(well not entirely true, the long 2x8 ones came in yellow, and later there were also white ones)
15:32<andythenorth>Pikka: http://www.teamrubber.com/blog/sysadmin-ops-role-will-it-suck/
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>and we had to carry the bricks uphill! both ways!!
15:34<SpComb>andythenorth: exactly! And then you secretly hire the guys that think your devops thing is silly
15:34<Pikka>interesting, andy :)
15:35<andythenorth>SpComb: everyone thinks devops is silly
15:36<Pikka>seems to be a lot of potentially not sucking going on in your workplace
15:37<Pikka>and lego
15:38<andythenorth>lies
15:38<andythenorth>oh no truth
15:38<andythenorth>dunno
15:38<andythenorth>I got bored of writing job ad titles :P
15:38<andythenorth>these ones get tweeeetered
15:39<Pikka>fair enough
15:39<andythenorth>Wanted: Writer of Job Ad Titles
15:39<andythenorth>Won't Suck :P
15:40<Pikka>yarp
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there are consulting firms that you can throw money at to do that :p
15:42<andythenorth>is TaI done yet? :P
15:42<andythenorth>herp
15:42<andythenorth>throwing money
15:42*andythenorth shudders
15:42-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
15:44<Pikka>TaI is not done yet, no
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>www.istaidoneyet.com?
15:44-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
15:44<Pikka>I'm supposedly working on money making stuff instead :)
15:46<andythenorth>o_O
15:46<andythenorth>TaI for €3 per download? :P
15:46<Pikka>haven't we had this conversation? :p
15:46<andythenorth>about 72 times
15:47*andythenorth is avoiding doing a tax return, but has no new topics :P
15:47<Pikka>iono, maybe I should put it on kickstarter or something
15:47<andythenorth>fair point
15:47<Pikka>tax avoidance!
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>it's not tax avoidance if it's less than 400€ a month
15:48<andythenorth>it's not tax avoidance if you actuall do the form and pay up :P
15:48<andythenorth>hmm
15:48<andythenorth>995k downloads of 'grfs wot andy has worked on'
15:49<andythenorth>what shall we say is in v2.0?
15:49<andythenorth>nope, did that already :P
15:49<Pikka>party at a million?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: now comes a musicmafia-style calculation that if you sue every downloader for 800€ compensation, the downloads are worth 800.000€? :p
15:50<andythenorth>might be a hard case to sustain ;)
15:50-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>if you repeat it often enough, people start to believe you
15:51-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
15:51-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BB2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:55<Pikka>now, sprechen of coffee...
15:55<@peter1138>dbsetxl 0.9? oh you jester
15:55<andythenorth>bassals: I added that update
15:55<Rubidium>these new trains aren't that reliable yet...
15:56<Rubidium>they don't reliably work (or reliably fail)
15:56<Rubidium>e.g. today only 17 of the 20 trains were broken/not in service
15:57<Pikka>better ground them
15:57<Rubidium>also interesting that the average delay of a train can be more than 1 hour when it's an hourly service
15:58<@peter1138>how does one go about using a goalscript on a dedicated server?
15:59<Pikka>uhoh
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>like everything else: prepare game on client, upload to server...
16:02-!-Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd
16:02<@peter1138>boring
16:04*andythenorth wants a 'make my game' feature
16:04<andythenorth>setting up games is really really really boring
16:04<andythenorth>and error prone
16:04<Supercheese>Ctrl+Newgame?
16:05<Supercheese>Presuming you have a grf list you like anyway
16:05<andythenorth>piff paff
16:06<andythenorth>all those crappy parameters and scuh
16:06<andythenorth>blah
16:06<Supercheese>Set parameters once, save config
16:06<Supercheese>although hmm, do parameter setting reset when the grf updates
16:06<andythenorth>my grf list changes a lot
16:06<andythenorth>for fairly obvious reasons :P
16:06<@peter1138>presets need to take account of updates
16:06<Supercheese>Yeah, if you have to remove/readd to the list
16:07<Supercheese>that would destroy parameter choices
16:07<@peter1138>but presets are done by filename, not grfid/hash
16:07<Supercheese>problem
16:07<@peter1138>could be arranged
16:07*Supercheese requests grfid rather than filename
16:07<Supercheese>that would help preserve parameter choices
16:08<@peter1138>well
16:08<Supercheese>when grfs update
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>parameters could change inbetween updates...
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>-in
16:09<Supercheese>yep
16:13<@peter1138>with action 14 you could probably check they're valid
16:13<@peter1138>but removing then adding the grf also changes the parameters
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>what annoys me most is that the "compatible version" is currently totally useless, because for "normal" user _any_ change is forbidden, and for "developers", the check is practically ignored
16:15<@peter1138>nowt to do with me
16:16<Supercheese>non-developer users can't load a savegame if the exact grfs aren't found, but a compatible grf is?
16:16<Supercheese>compatible grfs are*
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>no idea, but "missing grf" is a rare case anyway
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>more common is that you have both grfs, and want to use the newer one
16:17<Supercheese>Haha, not with Simuscape-folk, they have caused many such cases
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>i've chosen to totally ignore simuscape
16:17<Supercheese>Although it's more "can't join server with old version grf"
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>joining servers is a totally different case
16:18<@peter1138>simuscape clearly don't want people to use with grfs
16:18<Supercheese>yep
16:18<Supercheese>:S
16:18<@peter1138>not that sac ever released anything
16:18<Supercheese>They pick a Creative Commons license and say "don't upload this anywhere else"
16:18<Supercheese>is that... even legal?
16:19<@peter1138>which CC?
16:19<Supercheese>checking
16:19<Rubidium>Supercheese: first amendment?
16:19<Supercheese>enforceable*, not legal
16:19-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:20<Supercheese>(CC BY-NC-ND 3.0)
16:20<Rubidium>depends on the actuall CC license
16:20<Supercheese>http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/
16:20<Supercheese>"You are free: to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work "
16:21-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D1E4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>of course it's not enforceable
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>but if nobody does it, there's nothing to enforce
16:21<@peter1138>well
16:21<@peter1138>if they say you can't share
16:21<Supercheese>They're going for a "gentlemen's agreement" I guess
16:21<@peter1138>then it's not cc by-nc-nd
16:21-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
16:21<@peter1138>therefore none of the rest of the license applies
16:22<@peter1138>therefore default copyright
16:22<Supercheese>"Please don't upload anywhere else, even though the license allows you to do so" more or less
16:22<@peter1138>therefore you can't have it
16:22<Supercheese>Probably with an implicit "if people do start uploading this elsewhere, we'll never release any more grfs" :S
16:22<@peter1138>"Waiver — Any of the above conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder."
16:22<@peter1138>maybe they've misinterpreted that?
16:23<Pikka>licence agreements are fun :D
16:24<Rubidium>... especially custom ones
16:24<@peter1138>pikka's license is fine
16:24<Supercheese>heh
16:24<bassals>thanks andythenorth :-)
16:24-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.190.108] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:24<Rubidium>and the one discussed here is a custom one (due to the extra clause)
16:24<Supercheese>Pikka uses Bananas, all's good
16:24<andythenorth>bassals: it hasn't compiled on the compile farm yet :P
16:25<@peter1138>is the extra clause added to a local copy of the license?
16:26<bassals>what does that mean?
16:26-!-m4as [m4as@bac69-7-88-160-24-207.fbx.proxad.net] has quit []
16:26<@peter1138>of course, i've broken pikka's license by disassembling ukrs2, but never mind :p
16:26<andythenorth>he should sue you
16:26<@peter1138>he should
16:26<@peter1138>he lost a lot of money when i did that
16:26<Pikka>peter: I don't think anyone is ever going to sue over a grf
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: german copyright says any terms that forbid decompiling/etc. are void
16:27<andythenorth>that would provide him with the money to shirk work
16:27<andythenorth>and make grfs
16:27<andythenorth>Pikka: sue him!
16:27<andythenorth>quick
16:27<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, i modified it
16:27<andythenorth>the easy life awaits
16:27<andythenorth>see, he's admitted it
16:27<andythenorth>bang to rights eh
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that's included in that
16:27<Pikka>so a legal interpretation of sac or whoever's licence is immaterial
16:27<@peter1138>anyway
16:27<@peter1138>neither pikka nor i am german
16:28<Supercheese>Hmm, the Simuscape grf in question isn't bundled with a license
16:28<Supercheese>just raw grf download
16:28<Pikka>aren't I?
16:28<@peter1138>afaik
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: there may be similar laws in your jurisdiction :)
16:28<Pikka>geblungen mitteraus corblimey
16:28<bassals>who is wiling to testify agains peter1138 ?
16:29<@peter1138>mind you, some of those pixels look a bit like ttd original pixels
16:29<@peter1138>gosh!
16:29<@peter1138>yup, same palette and everything
16:29<@peter1138>hmm, can you copyright a palette? heh
16:30<Pikka>if sac says "don't distribute this" and then bundles it with a ccby licence, you probably shouldn't distribute it. she's made her position clear
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: a german court recently ruled that few measures of sampled music may already constitute a copyright violation, so certainly few pixels work as well :p
16:30<Pikka>some have noted the similarities, peter :)
16:32<Pikka>does my licence say you can't dissassemble, anyway? :)
16:32<@peter1138>no, just not modify
16:33<andythenorth>I'll testify
16:33<Pikka>eh
16:33<andythenorth>Pikka: slip me £20, and I'll say whatever you want against him
16:33<Pikka>it probably shouldn't say that
16:33<andythenorth>hmm, wikipedia tells me that we used to impale people often
16:33<andythenorth>and not just in Doom sprites
16:33<Pikka>I don't have 20, andy
16:33<andythenorth>IOU?
16:34<Pikka>who's we?
16:34<andythenorth>yewmans
16:34<andythenorth>I wouldn't read the page about it
16:34<andythenorth>icky
16:34<Pikka>oh, them
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>Jew men?
16:34<Pikka>everyone's got to have a hobby I suppose
16:34<Supercheese>€20 then?
16:35<@peter1138>hmm, passenger stations
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>btw, why is it "human"->"humans" but not "man"->"mans"?
16:35<Supercheese>humen
16:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it is
16:36<Supercheese>and if you're asking about plurals being inconsistent... you'll be asking about nearly every English plural ever
16:36<@peter1138>oh, no content server. hmm.
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>*this reply has been censored by brain*
16:36<andythenorth>it has gone away
16:36<@peter1138>*brian*
16:36<andythenorth>no bananas left
16:36<@peter1138>too many monkeys
16:36<Supercheese>et them all
16:37<Pikka>also, eddi: cease that blood libel, naughty german. :)
16:38<@peter1138>my aim is to draw some bloody awesome stations
16:38<@peter1138>code them bloody awesomely
16:38<andythenorth>orly?
16:38<@peter1138>then release it with a BSD license
16:38<andythenorth>he codes, he draws, he scores
16:38<Pikka>sounds plausible
16:38<@peter1138>first, learn to draw... DAMN
16:39<@peter1138>hmm, extra zoom, that would be fun
16:39<frosch123>BSD sound like bloody station drawings
16:39<@peter1138>frosch123, you are awesome
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: first, implement station support in nmlc :p
16:39<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, i know nothing about nmlc
16:39<@peter1138>what i've seen on nml is an obfuscating layer
16:40<frosch123>sorry, missed the point probably :)
16:41<andythenorth>peter1138: obfuscating layer with a slower compiler
16:41<andythenorth>but eh, I prefer it :P
16:43<Pikka>weirdo
16:43<Supercheese>I still can't really read NFO
16:44<xQR>that's a long openttd.org downtime, you're migrating or something?
16:44<Supercheese>I'd probably have learned it if NML didn't exist
16:45<Supercheese>servers still on holiday?
16:45<xQR>hehe yes
16:46<xQR>worst thing is that the internal server browser in multiplayer is affected too this time
16:46<Supercheese>have to get their work visas in order :P
16:46<xQR>i guess :P
16:46<xQR>it was down from 11:30 to 16:00, then up until 20:40 and since then is down again (times in UTC)
16:47<xQR>so it rather seems to be several trips to different places :P
16:52<bassals>bananas
16:53<Supercheese>been eaten :(
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>xQR: no migrating, just server hiccups, i believe.
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>who you gonna call? TrueBrain!
16:56<xQR>eheh
16:56-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56<xQR>if i ever have a 4 hours long hiccup bring me to a doctor please
16:57<xQR>can't be healthy ^^
17:00<@peter1138>hmm, how do we deal with the extra 3 pixels of 4x zoom?
17:04<frosch123>two choices
17:04<frosch123>1) make it compatible with non-zoom sprites and make it look weird forever
17:04<frosch123>2) make it incompatible with non-zoom sprites and make it look fine with other zoom sprites
17:04<frosch123>i prefer the second :)
17:05<@peter1138>me too
17:05<@peter1138>i know there was a big argument against it mind you
17:05<frosch123>who cares about the transition between non-zoom and zoom if the non-zoom are blocky
17:05<@peter1138>quite
17:05<@peter1138>although i notice that zbase doesn't get its zoomed out sizes right
17:06<@peter1138>or maybe the in-game scaling does that and gets it awkward
17:07<andythenorth>herm. not snowing here
17:07<andythenorth>sposed to be
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>how dare it not listen to the weather forecast!!
17:11<andythenorth>time for bed
17:11<andythenorth>said zebedee
17:11<andythenorth>bye
17:11-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:16-!-bassals [~53390ad1@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
17:28<frosch123>night
17:28-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d54c9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:31<Wolf01>'night
17:31-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:40-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
17:41<Pikka>what 3 pixels, peter?
17:44<@Terkhen>good night
17:48<Supercheese>Hmm, trying to find the thread about it Pikka
17:50<TrueBrain>ugh, freaking MySQL Archive tables
17:50<TrueBrain>they are the worst
17:52-!-Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
17:52<Supercheese>Jeez, where was that thread :S
17:52-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:53<Supercheese>finally
17:53<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=59251
17:54<Supercheese>Starting at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=59251&start=20#p1003494 more specifically
17:55<Supercheese>and http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=59251&start=40#p1009887
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood what that discussion was actually about
17:56<Supercheese>"jagged edges" mostly
17:56<TrueBrain>our wiki database is 396 MiB ....
17:56<TrueBrain>wow
17:58-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:06<@peter1138>Pikka, the magic 3 pixels!
18:07<@peter1138>Pikka, 64 x 31 -> 256 x 124
18:07<@peter1138>Pikka, but the native 4x tile size is 256 x 127
18:07-!-St3f [~Anonymous@53577204.cm-6-8b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>why is it 31 in the first place?
18:08<Supercheese>thought it was 32...
18:09<@peter1138>so the tiles interlock
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get it
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>between the tile (X,Y) and (X+1,Y+1) there are 32 pixels
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise the whole 16 steps per tile deal wouldn't work
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>why are the sprites 1 pixel smaller?
18:17<@peter1138>because the west and east corners are only 1 pixel high
18:17<@peter1138>so that's 16+16-1
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>i still don't get it...
18:23<@peter1138>never mind eh
18:28<@peter1138>if you use the highlight tool on a tile, you can see the outline of it
18:28-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:28<@peter1138>if you move around, you'll see tiles next to each other horizontally touch
18:28<@peter1138>but there's a gap of 1 pixel for tiles vertically
18:29<@peter1138>easier to see with 4x, heh
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm, so the pixels are on the wrong sprite, and should be moved?
18:30-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D1E4.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>or actually, they should be duplicated?
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>(otherwise you just reverse the problem to horizontal instead of vertical)
18:30<@peter1138>there is no problem
18:30<@peter1138>at least, not within a tile size
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>so, the problem is??
18:31<@peter1138>none really
18:31<@peter1138>it's just weird
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>ah forget it...
18:32<@peter1138>how 4x normal graphics is 256x124
18:32<@peter1138>but 4x native graphics are 256x127
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>so an upscaled sprite will overlap a native sprite?
18:33<@peter1138>ever so slightly
18:33<@peter1138>who came up with this shit eh? :S
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>so... when only using upscaled sprites, everything is fine, when only using native sprites, everything is fine, when using mixed sprites, everything is fine, just some pixels on the border are weird?
18:36<@peter1138>yup
18:36<@peter1138>well, either overlapping or worse... missing
18:36<@peter1138>but never mind
18:36<@peter1138>it's only pixels :)
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>how can they be missing if the "native" sprites are "bigger"?
18:37<Supercheese>"jagged edges" again
18:37<@peter1138>Supercheese, yes
18:37<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=59251&start=40#p1003941
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>i guess other than actually seeing it, i won't get it...
18:37<Supercheese>attachment to illustrate
18:37<@peter1138>but i'm ignoring that, it's just the the 3 extra pixels amuse me, cos i'm easily amused
18:38<@peter1138>(it's because on the blocky version the pixels come from the sides instead of the extra 3 rows)
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>"solution": just put the grid lines in these pixels, then it doesn't matter whether they overlap
18:58-!-Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-5d8544f1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
18:59-!-Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04f1bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:00<Supercheese>what about no-grid landscapes?
19:00<Supercheese>not that I use them, but some do
19:12-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-100-013.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
19:40<Supercheese>Actually, the horse & rider I made isn't that badly out of 'scale' after all
19:40<Supercheese>I edited* that is
19:43-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:55-!-trent200164 [ae319a98@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
19:55-!-trent200164 [ae319a98@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit []
19:59-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
20:20-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20:49-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org]
21:03-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
21:04-!-pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
21:26-!-glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !]
22:25-!-TexasPete [~slim@host86-140-119-109.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
23:05-!-Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08-!-Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd
23:08-!-Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:08-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd
23:08-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
23:44<TexasPete>so growing an industry like a coal mine, how should I go about doing this please?
23:48-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
23:50-!-Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:52-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.99] has joined #openttd
23:54-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.73.216] has joined #openttd
23:57-!-KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.72.49] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Fri Jan 18 00:00:06 2013