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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-18

---Logopened Fri Jan 18 00:00:06 2013
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00:05<@planetmaker>TexasPete: just provide good service. that's all
00:05<@planetmaker>and exercise patience :-)
00:06<@planetmaker>if you play with newgrfs which modify the coal mine, all bets are off, though. They might behave completely different
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00:48<TexasPete>that just seems a bit to much like cheating
00:49<Supercheese>how so?
00:49<TexasPete>thanks
00:49<TexasPete>well modifying the industry is kind of against the principle of the game
00:50<Supercheese>Some grfs provide complete overhaul of industries
00:50<TexasPete>although I understand that to some its more about the network and building it so its efficient
00:51<TexasPete>It kind of blew my mind what some people have done
00:51<Supercheese>Yeah :)
00:51<TexasPete>I wanna do it heehee
00:52<TexasPete>I never knew there was such an active following for the game
00:53<Supercheese>1994-2013, and going strong :)
00:53<Supercheese>almost 20 years
00:54<TexasPete>just goes to show what an awesome game it is, and the power of open sourcing it
00:54<Supercheese>indeed
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01:04<Supercheese>http://xkcd.com/1162/
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01:38<Flygon>Supercheese: And that is why we should use Nuclear Power :)
01:38<Supercheese>Verily
01:39<Flygon>I mean, modern French plants are amazing
01:39<Supercheese>It worked for the USS Enterprise from, like, 1960-something until last year
01:39<Flygon>Almost zero radioactive waste
01:39<Flygon>Which USS Enterprise?
01:39<Supercheese>first nuclear carrier
01:39<Flygon>Ah, right
01:39<Flygon>Because there was another Nuclear powered Enterprise in the 60s :p
01:39<Supercheese>and that had to deal with a lot of other issues that stationary plants wouldn't
01:40<Flygon>Mm
01:40<Supercheese>Nuclear powered trains! Oh wait, NUTS has those
01:40<Supercheese>Nuclear powered airships!
01:40<Flygon>Nuclear Powered trains were experimented with in the 50s
01:40<Supercheese>wave of the future, for sure
01:40<Flygon>It was a collosal flop
01:41<Flygon>The environment was terrible for nuclear reactors (eg. shaky tracks)
01:41<Supercheese>US Navy -- ZN-1
01:41<Supercheese>:P
01:41<Supercheese>matter of fact, think I read an alt history fiction that had that
01:41<Flygon>Nuclear Powered Airships and Seaships have the benefit of being both massive enough and in an environment where you're unlikely to run into much in the way of physical turbulence
01:41<Flygon>Yes, I did just say turbulence
01:43<Supercheese>Virgin Air Cruises, nuclear powered air-cruise-ships
01:44<Supercheese>he's got enough money to pull that off, what with Virgin Galactic
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03:33<@peter1138>if only blender was as easy to use as sketchup
03:36<Supercheese>yes, if only
03:36<Supercheese>I use sketchup to render some sprites for my grfs
03:36<@peter1138>if only blender was as easy to use as sketchup
03:36<@peter1138>wrong window for up-cursor-enter
03:37<@peter1138>if only my dvb adapter would work this morning
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03:43<Eddi|zuHause>what's this morning different than any other morning?
03:48<@peter1138>if only Eddi|zuHause was Eddi|zuHause
03:49<@peter1138>hmm, do we only have 2 streetlamp views?
03:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes. one left and one right
03:49<@peter1138>oh dear
03:49<Eddi|zuHause>NewLamps! :p
03:49<@peter1138>newtownfurniture!
03:50<@peter1138>peds running around!
03:51<Eddi|zuHause>road traffic! :)
03:51<@peter1138>passenger destinations
03:51<Eddi|zuHause>traffic lights that annoy the hell out of you
03:51<@peter1138>when you see your pax walking to busstops and stations
03:51<@peter1138>heh
03:52<@peter1138>zbase foundations are a bit clumsty
03:52<@peter1138>clumsy too
03:53<Supercheese>Pedestrians running around as RVs is possible, but they'd screw over traffic all to hell
03:54<Supercheese>Hmm, can't yet have cargo-dependent graphics for bus stops
03:54<Supercheese>or can you?
03:56<@peter1138>no
03:59<Supercheese>Should fix that sometime :P
03:59<@peter1138>bus stops only accept passengers
03:59<@peter1138>so probably not
03:59<Supercheese>cargo-amount
03:59<Supercheese>I mean
03:59<@peter1138>stations are all rail-centre
04:00<@peter1138>*centric
04:00<Supercheese>err, no?
04:00<@peter1138>err yes
04:00<@peter1138>newgrf stations
04:00<Supercheese>Currently, yes
04:00<@peter1138>exactly
04:01<@peter1138>some people want custom state machines
04:01<@peter1138>which rail stations don't need
04:01<Supercheese>I'd settle for custom graphics for roads and docks
04:02<@peter1138>design a spec :p
04:02<Supercheese>multiple styles, callbacks for cargoes, amount waiting, etc.
04:02<Supercheese>I'll finish my object set first :)
04:03<@peter1138>so i made sketchup give me a 2:1 "isometric" projection
04:03<@peter1138>and then it crashed
04:03<@peter1138>and now it won't start
04:04<Supercheese>there's an OTTD plugin for sketchup
04:04<Supercheese>gives right view for exporting
04:04<Supercheese>but the refusal to start needs to be rectified, yes
04:05<@peter1138>hmm, no glass on zbase stations
04:06<Supercheese>transparency you mean?
04:06*Supercheese has never actually used zbase
04:06<@peter1138>GLASS
04:06<Supercheese>err, transparent covering of sorts
04:06*Supercheese is sleepy
04:07<Supercheese>Whew, 273 MB
04:08<@planetmaker>moin
04:11<@peter1138>zbase offsets are wrong imho
04:12<Supercheese>Yeah, I think there was some discussion about that
04:12<@peter1138>dunno if that's due to the limitations of offsets & wotnot
04:13<@peter1138>they should be 3 pixels righter and 1 or 2 pixels upper
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04:16<Supercheese>sheesh, zbase seems to be about the same size as all other bananas content put together
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04:18<@peter1138>not surprising
04:18<@peter1138>80* bigger, uncompressed
04:19<@peter1138>actually more when you take those magic 3 pixels into account :p
04:20<Supercheese>Oooh, alpha channel on the smoke
04:20*Supercheese is using zbase for the first time
04:21<Supercheese>Awww, water's not animated
04:22<Supercheese>and yeah, lots of glass is missing
04:23<Supercheese>Huh, kinda reminds me of Simutrans
04:23<@peter1138>what, ugly? :p
04:24<Supercheese>over-saturated
04:24<@peter1138>depends
04:24<Supercheese>although some recoloring business may be in the process of changing
04:24<@peter1138>it's a mix of dark undersaturated and oversaturated
04:24<Supercheese>also damn, I really miss animated water
04:25<@peter1138>which looks odd
04:25<@peter1138>ttd is meant to be bright
04:25<@peter1138>bridges are wayyyy too odd
04:25<@peter1138>i checked out the source repo
04:25<@peter1138>2.something GB
04:26<Supercheese>yeah, bridge recolor stuff was mentioned to be a WIP
04:26<Supercheese>haha, some pylons are unattached, floating there
04:27<Supercheese>doesn't even look like the wood bridge has any pylons...
04:27<Supercheese>still, all this was done by a single fellow? Damn impressive
04:27<@peter1138>bridges have pillars not pylons
04:28<Supercheese>pillars, ok
04:28<Supercheese>do action colors not work in 32bpp?
04:28<@peter1138>yeah they do
04:29<Supercheese>I don't see any action colors in zbase
04:30<@peter1138>that doesn't mean they don't work :p
04:30<Supercheese>heh
04:30<Supercheese>true enough, wonder why he hasn't added them, perhaps they're a pain
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04:33<@peter1138>well they don't really fit in with rendering
04:33<@peter1138>so have to be done manually
04:33<@peter1138>and why bother?
04:34<Supercheese>Could action-colored bits also have transparency?
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04:35<Eddi|zuHause>https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/14839_10151210438792555_1826412909_n.jpg <-- "Chuck Norris takes charge of Berlin Airport. Opening will be tomorrow 7:30AM"
04:35<@peter1138>Supercheese, no
04:36<Eddi|zuHause>action colours can't have 32bpp values, obviously
04:38<Supercheese>Hmm, I was hoping if I ever took Eyecandy Road Vehicles I could have the flashing-red action colors with transparency
04:38<Supercheese>fir flashing emergency vehicle lights
04:38<Supercheese>for*
04:38<Supercheese>if I ever took it to extra zoom 32bpp*
04:38<Supercheese>sheesh, I am too sleepy, typos all over :S
04:40<@peter1138>no but as long as the vehicle is moving you can have animation that way
04:41<Supercheese>Yeah, not too much more work
04:41<Supercheese>or I could abuse the global animation_counter ... oh wait, I already do that
04:41<@peter1138>probably look shit unless it's moving fast mind you
04:42<@peter1138>well
04:42<@peter1138>newgrf effects vehicles :p
04:42<Supercheese>I abuse that variable terribly
04:42<Supercheese>switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, siren_switch4, animation_counter % 512)
04:42<Supercheese> 96..111: return sound("sirenloop2.wav");
04:42<Supercheese> 112..223: return CB_RESULT_NO_SOUND;
04:42<Supercheese>and so on
04:43<Supercheese>probably terrible code, but meh
04:44<Supercheese>time for bed, hasta mañana
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04:46<@peter1138>...
04:46<@peter1138>oh, gone
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05:19<dihedral>anybody familiar with the slab cache? i am facing a large consumtion of about 1.4GB where there is only 2GB of RAM
05:21<@peter1138>what's the problem?
05:22<dihedral>most likely me being unfamiliar with it
05:23<dihedral>the system started swapping, so i increased memory
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05:40<Pikka>newgrf affects vehicles?
06:01<@peter1138>somewhat
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07:16<@peter1138>hmm
07:17<@peter1138>Pikka, TaI churchs never go, right?
07:17<@peter1138>the 2x2 sort
07:17<@peter1138>so many of them :S
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07:22<V453000>livery override for wagons can affect capacity? :D I have a vehicle which has livery override, 2nd vehicle which doesnt. Wagon capacity switch is the same exact thing, with output of 24, but one vehicle has 40 and other 24 :D it isnt a big issue as I am going to unify that anyway, but looks wtf o_O
07:23<@peter1138>callbacks are fun, eh?
07:24<V453000>I dont even understand where does the extra "16" come from :D
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07:24<@peter1138>are you using cb36?
07:24<@peter1138>for capacity
07:24<V453000>what is 36?
07:24<V453000>I guess
07:24<@peter1138>:S
07:25<V453000>capacity: switch_global_pax_wagons
07:25<V453000>or something like that
07:25<@peter1138>nml? whatever that calls i don't know
07:25<@peter1138>+it
07:25<Pikka>yes, too many built in big cities, peter
07:26<@peter1138>V453000, is there ever a capacity or value or 40 returned?
07:26<Pikka>I increased the probability in the most recent version, probably shouldn't have
07:26<V453000>ooooh yeah there is, in the properties of the item
07:26<V453000>guess I just change that :S
07:27<@peter1138>well, is it intended for the cargo capacity to be variable?
07:27<V453000>the capacity: switch; clearly isnt working
07:27<V453000>no, in this case I think it can work like this
07:27<V453000>vehicles which need it to vary dont have livery overrides
07:27<@peter1138>if it's not variable you shouldn't be using cb36 for it
07:27<V453000>those are only vehicles with powered wagons which seem to require the livery override
07:27<V453000>well some vehicles have it variable
07:27<V453000>if you see what I mean
07:28<@peter1138>you probably need to replicate the chain for the override
07:28<@peter1138>yup, you do
07:28<V453000>I think I will actually just change the property of the item
07:28<V453000>as it really is for just that one case of vehicles
07:29<V453000>other trains wont get powered wagons anyway
07:29<@peter1138>seems to be a problem with nml
07:29<V453000>hm
07:29<@peter1138>hiding the implementation may mean you don't get the most efficient code
07:30<V453000>I dont expect my code to be clean tbh :D that would be outright utopistic in my case
07:31<@peter1138>i mean
07:32<@peter1138>when writing nfo you know what's going on cos you had to put loads of effort into writing it
07:32<V453000>:DD
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07:32<@peter1138>wiw
07:32<@peter1138>wow
07:32<V453000>nfo isnt for me I am afraid :) it looks like forest to me
07:32<@peter1138>i removed one church and my rating went from excellent to mediocre :p
07:33<V453000> // \\ and numbers
07:33<@peter1138>if you use a preprocessor you can tokenise common keywords
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07:35<V453000>nml is nice :)
07:35<@peter1138>what this games needs
07:35<@peter1138>is passengers dests
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes it does
07:35<V453000>the beauty of a passenger game is imo the ultimate freedom, making destinations takes that away
07:35<@peter1138>shuffling passengers from one side of the map to another (not that i'd ever do that *cough*) makes too much money
07:36<@peter1138>i don't have "passenger games"
07:36<@peter1138>i do bits of everything :p
07:36<V453000>point still stands
07:36<@peter1138>although long distance passengers end up being most profitable
07:36<V453000>even if you mix it, the freedom is important
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>passengers make too much money because there are so many of them
07:36<@peter1138>so i end up pruning everything else
07:36<V453000>towns add a very special element by which you can control traffic a lot
07:37<V453000>-thing- making too much money is not really an issue
07:37<V453000>reduce payment or increase decay for that
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07:39<fonsinchen>I'll soon have a new version of cargodist ready for review.
07:39<V453000>all that dest/dist/yacdwhatever does is telling the player "do this", while without it he can do the exact same thing with sufficient creativity
07:39<@peter1138>not really
07:39<@peter1138>transfers can't do exactly what dests give you
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you can't do bus<->airport<->airport<->bus
07:40<fonsinchen>The multi-hop passenger thing is the exact reason I started this project.
07:40<V453000>you can make 2 stations
07:40<V453000>systematically that doesnt change anything
07:41<fonsinchen>You cannot deliver part of the passengers to the town and have another part change to a different plane.
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes it does, landing/takeoff is an enormous time effort for planes
07:41<V453000>I find it just a solution of "dump vehicles somewhere, let them sort"
07:41<V453000>well yes planes are stupid anyway
07:42<fonsinchen>The sorting by vehicle routing is a hellishly complex thing. I don't want to do that for such simple tasks.
07:42<__ln__>https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%22armstrong%22+%22the+moon%22&src=typd
07:42<@peter1138>heh
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>just tell me he cheated on that, too!
07:47<@peter1138>hmm, can i make in-memory recolour sprites?
07:48<@peter1138>ooh i could cheat with a special slot id
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: question is, who is just trolling and who actually believes what they write?
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07:57<drac_boy>hi
07:58<Stimrol>hello, is it possible to somehow print out in the game witch config.file the game is using, like the location of the file. Because my 1.2.3. version seems to load the config file from nightly version I have also in different folder
07:58<Stimrol>hi drac
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>-d misc=1?
08:02<drac_boy>how're you stimrol? :)
08:02<Stimrol>I am fine
08:04<drac_boy>nice
08:09<Stimrol>Eddi|zuHause, it only shows the tar files. This is strange, I can load the games from their folder and everything works fine, then if I load from Ubuntu Dash bar (on the left) it shows me errors regarding the config file. And I can see nothing wrong with the openttd.desktop file
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08:10<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [misc] /mnt/disk2/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/bin/lang/piglatin.lng is not a valid language file
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm...
08:11<@planetmaker>I *think* it was (re)moved?
08:11<@peter1138>yes
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, like 3 years ago :p
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, this debug output is stupid, one should completely rearrange the debug levels
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>and why is it scanning for AI tars 5 times?
08:15<drac_boy>heh
08:16<__ln__>http://www.aklagare.se/Media/Nyheter/Staderska-inte-langre-misstankt-for-tagkrasch/
08:16<@peter1138>__ln__, English only
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>and what do these mean? dbg: [sprite] Fixing lru 120198, inuse=285752
08:17<@peter1138>who knows?
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>they show up on debuglevel 3 on the title game
08:18<Stimrol>This is so strange, why is my openttd starting version 1.2.3 and using my openttd.cfg from my nightly folder
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08:18<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah
08:18<@peter1138>lru is least recently used
08:19<@peter1138>it keeps track of which sprites could be purged if it ran out of spritecache memory
08:19<@peter1138>it's probably not an optimal algorithm these days
08:19<@peter1138>since we have tons more sprites and a much larger sprite cache
08:20<@peter1138>same code is in r1
08:20<@peter1138>debug level 2 then though, heh
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08:23<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [grf] [newgrf/test/cets.grf:107158] SkipIf: Skipping 1 sprites, test was true <-- i somehow doubt these should be debug level 3 already
08:24<@peter1138>i removed the level 1 grf messages that industries made
08:25<drac_boy>stimrol now you see why I never could understand how to even get more than one openttd folder working under any of the newer versions
08:26<@peter1138>__ln__, so is it possible to accidentally drive one of those things?
08:26<drac_boy>but mm meh ... figures why I never share the game with other friends compared to patch or simutrans .. just rather not confuse them
08:27<@peter1138>how to get more than one version going:
08:27<@peter1138>make a directory
08:27<@peter1138>put openttd into it
08:27<@peter1138>run it
08:27<@peter1138>ding
08:28<__ln__>peter1138: so it seems. it has been speculated (though not in that article) that the driver left the train without setting the brakes on.
08:28<Stimrol>drac
08:28<drac_boy>peter1138 nope that does not even help with it still being treated as one single large app rather than 2+ seperate ones
08:28<@peter1138>no, just my default it uses a single place for your config
08:28<Stimrol>drac_boy, it have always been running okey, because I have just made a new openttd.cfg file in each directory
08:30<@peter1138>-my+by
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08:38<Stimrol>peter1138, so I am right if I have a openttd.cfg in each folder then if you are in that folder and start /.openttd then it uses the openttd.cfg file located in that directory?
08:38<@peter1138>./openttd
08:38<@peter1138>should be maybe
08:38<@peter1138>i dunno, i only ever use the config in ~/.openttd/
08:39-!-Superuser [~root@host86-152-172-169.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
08:41<Stimrol>I have seperate folder for my nightly version and one for server version and all worked well until I started openttd today, and it looks to me that the orginal one is running the openttd.cfg from the nightly folder, this is so strange to me.
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>Stimrol: maybe your desktop link doesn't set the working directory?
08:42<Stimrol>that is what I suspected, but there is no link from it to the nightly version
08:43<Stimrol>Eddi|zuHause, it should be this one .local/share/application/openttd.desktop ?
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know?
08:44<Stimrol>Eddi|zuHause, that one shows --> Exec=/home/stimrol/.openttd/openttd
08:45<Stimrol>strange behaviour :)
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's not the working directory
08:45<@peter1138>you keep your openttd binary inside ~/.openttd? o_O
08:47<Stimrol>extract the game to this location and then I extraced the nightly to nightly location on my computer
08:49<Superuser>http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcgosroGbp1rese01o1_400.jpg <-- chile's penis, why oh why
08:52-!-Pokka [~Octomom@d58-106-42-20.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
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09:06<@peter1138>ooh, result
09:06<@peter1138>my m-i-l got me a box of carlsberg for xmas
09:07<@peter1138>i don't carlsberg, i gave it to a neighbour
09:07<@peter1138>just found they've left 4 bottles of ale on the doorstep, heh
09:09<Pokka>barter economy
09:09<drac_boy>:)
09:10<Superuser>x---D
09:10<@peter1138>hmm
09:10<@peter1138>i don't *drink* carlsberg
09:10<@peter1138>my keyboard is broken
09:11<Pokka>nothing wrong with nouning as verb
09:12-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd
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09:13<andythenorth>Pikka ponk
09:13<Pokka>does he?
09:14<drac_boy>heh
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/fileio_debug_levels.diff <-- preliminary debug level rework
09:14-!-andythenorth is now known as andythesouth
09:16<Pokka>how cardinal
09:17<andythesouth>maybe the poles switched?
09:18<Pokka>wouldn't be the first time
09:18<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, anything else?
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i haven't looked at the grf spam
09:18<Pokka>and there was I all this time thinking your name was "Andy then Orth"
09:18-!-oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
09:19<Pinkbeast>No, no, it's like mine - Pink B. East.
09:19<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, deal with one debug "task" at a time i guess
09:19-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: maybe the "found tar <blah> with <blah> files" could also be 4
09:20<andythesouth>Pikka: I am now Andy Thes Outh o/c
09:21<@peter1138>dbg: [misc] /home/petern/ottd/trunk6/bin/lang/origveh.lng is not a valid language file
09:21<@peter1138>dbg: [misc] /home/petern/ottd/trunk6/bin/lang/piglatin.lng is not a valid language file
09:21<@peter1138>haha
09:21-!-andythesouth is now known as andythewest
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>exactly :)
09:22<@peter1138>src/signs_gui.cpp: DEBUG(misc, 3, "Building sign list");
09:23<@peter1138>does that really need a debug message?
09:23-!-Celestar_ is now known as Celestar
09:24<Stimrol>is there anyone here who is involved in the Autopilot project?
09:24-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:26<@peter1138>Ammler possibly?
09:26<Stimrol>thanks I will ask him my question
09:29-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably wrong: src/window.cpp:2530: DEBUG(misc, 2, "Cursor: 0x%X (%d)", _cursor.sprite, _cursor.sprite);
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no idea how to trigger that
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>wth does this mean? src/signal.cpp:156: DEBUG(misc, 0, "SignalSegment too complex. Set %s is full (maximum %d)", name, items);
09:42<@peter1138>too many signals in a single block
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>err... src/order_cmd.cpp:1703: //DEBUG(misc, 3, "Triggered News Item for vehicle %d", v->index);
09:45<@peter1138>usererror("Tried to load too many sprites (#%d; max %d)", load_index, MAX_SPRITES);
09:45<@peter1138>anyone seen that recently? :p
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i get CETS to that point :p
09:46<Pokka>not recently, peter
09:46<V453000>not-so-related question, is it possible to make a custom trigger? Like a trigger upon cargo refit order? Currently I have trigger upon servicing, but that apparently occurs after conditional order is done
09:47<@Terkhen>hello
09:47<@peter1138>hmm, colour remaps are 257 bytes... what's the first byte?
09:47<@peter1138>or the last byte, i suppose
09:48<@peter1138>no, first byte, cos it's skippe
09:48<@peter1138>+d
09:48<Pokka>it's
09:48<Pokka>a 00
09:49<Pokka>for no explained reason
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: so, i updated the diff with listing the tar files at level 4 (listing files in tars was already level 6). also i think the line in window.cpp should just go. otherwise i think this is fine
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't found anything that lists the files outside the tars, though
10:04<fonsinchen>gah, C++ reverse iterators are a pain.
10:06<fonsinchen>You can delete things from a list while iterating with forward iterators, but not with reverse ones.
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>changing a list with active iterator sounds wrong on so many levels
10:09<fonsinchen>Linked lists are designed to enable that
10:09<fonsinchen>you can take out an element while only invalidating iterators that point to that specific element.
10:10<fonsinchen>All other iterators stay valid. That's the nice thing about linked lists.
10:10<Superuser>SOMEONE
10:10<Superuser>ANYONE
10:10<Superuser>can someone plssss set up a server
10:10<Superuser>something preferably blose to vanilla
10:10<Superuser>close*
10:11<TinoDidriksen>You can't do that yourself?
10:11<Superuser>no.
10:11<Superuser>lags too hard
10:11<andythewest>paid server service?
10:11<andythewest>:P
10:11<andythewest>"join my game for €1"
10:11<Superuser>lel
10:11<andythewest>pay €2 and I'll let you win :P
10:12<Superuser>but seriously, people are itching to play
10:12<@peter1138>there's plenty of servers
10:13<andythewest>more servers than players innit?
10:13<@peter1138>i should probably restart mine seeing as how i trounced andythewest
10:13<andythewest>you did :o
10:13<andythewest>I was winning :(
10:13<Superuser>pleasee
10:13<Superuser>go peter
10:13-!-andythewest is now known as andythenorth
10:13<Superuser>I will love your forever peter1138
10:13<andythenorth>we need a castle-building grf first
10:13<andythenorth>the purpose of MP is to build the biggest castle
10:13<andythenorth>hmm
10:13<@peter1138>make one
10:13<Superuser>come on peter go go go
10:13<@peter1138>objects 'n that
10:13<andythenorth>we should be able to tunnel under castles
10:13<Superuser>restart that shit
10:13<andythenorth>then explode a train there
10:13<andythenorth>mine
10:13<@peter1138>bah
10:14<@peter1138>it's only 2084
10:14<Superuser>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
10:14<@peter1138>still plenty of time left
10:14<Superuser>I'll do all manner of things to you if you do that
10:14-!-user54367644 [~user@121.187.123.58] has joined #openttd
10:14<@peter1138>andythenorth, is FIRS ready
10:14<Superuser>nice thingds LD
10:16<andythenorth>ready for what?
10:16<andythenorth>ready for love?
10:16-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
10:16<drac_boy>hi
10:16<andythenorth>neigh
10:16<andythenorth>what noise does a drac_boy make?
10:17<Superuser>okay, found someone who is able to do this
10:17<@peter1138>half dragon, half horse, half boy
10:17<Superuser>how can we add the server to the metaserver's list?
10:17<drac_boy>very funy andythenorth, you could just go with 'rawr!' :)
10:17<andythenorth>rawr
10:17<@peter1138>make sure server_advertise = true
10:18-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
10:19<Superuser>not dedicated server silly
10:19<Superuser>this person is too stupid to use the command line
10:20<Superuser>please help peter1138 I will be grateful forever
10:20<Stimrol>I am getting errors from the binaries.openttd.org
10:20<Superuser>you will be my hero
10:20<@peter1138>ConnectioN:
10:20<Stimrol>404 error
10:20<@peter1138>Internet (advertise)
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10:24<@Belugas>hello
10:25<@Belugas>c c c c c cold
10:25<@Belugas>fffffffreezing
10:25<@Belugas>was -18 this morning, with a strong wind
10:25<Pokka>25 here
10:26<@Belugas>going outside to smoke? ARE YOU CRAZE?????????
10:26<Pokka>at 1:30am :)
10:26<@Belugas>+25 or -25?
10:26<+michi_cc>And F or C?
10:26<+michi_cc>or K? :p
10:26<Pokka>+25C
10:26-!-user54367644 [~user@121.187.123.58] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi]
10:26<__ln__>coulombs?
10:26*Belugas is freaking envious
10:26<Pokka>yesterday was the hottest ever day in sydney
10:26<Pokka>what global warming?
10:27<@Belugas>hehehe
10:27<andythenorth>power lines have melted in sydney
10:27<andythenorth>here they are down for snow :P
10:27<fonsinchen>TrueBrain: Would it help the build farm to build Cargodist if I set up a mercurial mirror for my git repository somehow?
10:27<andythenorth>sydney has a plague of roos apparently
10:27<Pokka>a plaque of roos?
10:27<__ln__>around -22°C here, -8°F
10:27<andythenorth>Pokka: apparently a plaque yes
10:28<andythenorth>2 people I work with are off to Oz
10:28<@Belugas>__ln__< i sympathize completeley
10:28<andythenorth>they've been told to stock up on roo repellent
10:28<andythenorth>and drop bear helmets
10:28<andythenorth>can get them at Heathrow if you ask
10:28<__ln__>Belugas: i enjoy negative Fahrenheits
10:28<Pokka>drop bears
10:29<Pokka>how tedious
10:29<@Belugas>honestly, __ln__, I don't.
10:29<@Belugas>but if you like it, cool (huhuhhu) for you
10:29<andythenorth>http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/e/e3/Government_Drop_Bear_Warning.jpg
10:32<Pokka>imo drop bears are a terribly tired joke which serves no purpose but to identify the teller as a bore, but then I'm just the fun police.
10:33<andythenorth>he
10:33<andythenorth>they still have fun value for those new to them :P
10:33<Pokka>perhaps :)
10:33<andythenorth>maybe they're over
10:33<andythenorth>pokka killed the fun :P
10:34<Pokka>then again, I have the strange notion that telling people actual facts about australia instead of tired jokes is of greater value to both australia and the tellee. :)
10:35-!-Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd
10:35<Pokka>I hope your collegues like heat, in any case :P
10:36<Pokka>two of my father's sisters are coming out to visit in march, hopefully it will have cooled down a bit by then.
10:39<Pokka>peter1138, new game, let's do this
10:40<@peter1138>well now
10:47<Pokka>with plane crashes off :)
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11:23<andythenorth>peter1138: what rev?
11:25-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:26<Pokka>24917 or something andy
11:26<andythenorth>'latest'
11:26<andythenorth>herm
11:26<andythenorth>not
11:27<Pokka>:)
11:27<andythenorth>24920 is latest
11:27<Pokka>who said latest?
11:28<andythenorth>me
11:28<andythenorth>I did wot wrong
11:28<@peter1138>there is no new game yet
11:29<Pokka>there is not
11:30<Pokka>silly statemachines
11:31<Pokka>why does an aircraft coming out of the hangar on the commuter airport go all the way up to the first loading bay, if the nearer 3rd bay is free?
11:32-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32<andythenorth>because it's silly
11:32<andythenorth>also some of the big airports block trivially
11:32<andythenorth>even when bays are free
11:32<drac_boy>pokka probably because its one single programming for all airports in name of "taxi off runaway, try #1 ... if taken check for #2 .. if #2 exists try #2"
11:32<drac_boy>not perfect but thats apparently the way it seem to run
11:33<Pokka>yes, "because olde airport statemachines smell" is the right answer
11:33<Pokka>they'll be first up against the wall when the revolution comes
11:34<drac_boy>heh
11:35<drac_boy>pokka to be honest I do think the small airport has a bit of annoyance in that you can't taxi from hanger to loading spot without blocking the runaway :/
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause>if that's the biggest problem you have with airports...
11:47<@peter1138>so many runways
11:48<@peter1138>international airport is ridiculous
11:48<Pokka>tres
11:48<andythenorth>clearly
11:48<andythenorth>intercontinental is much better :P
11:48<@peter1138>apparently the wind is different on either side of it
11:48<@peter1138>oh
11:49<@peter1138>that's the one i meant
11:49<Pinkbeast>_Something_'s got to be difficult in the use of aircraft. :-P
11:49<drac_boy>heh
11:49<andythenorth>yes
11:49<andythenorth>they crash a lot
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>difficult != silly
11:49<drac_boy>a lot? you're using the wrong ones then? :)
11:50<andythenorth>in my FIRS games, airplanes are running supplies
11:50<andythenorth>I don't want extra difficulty
11:50<Pinkbeast>They crash a lot - and it takes 2 seconds to clone a new one from the crash which you can do with your giant pile of money from using aircraft.
11:50<drac_boy>andythenorth then don't land 747's on short runaways? :)
11:50<@peter1138>not on MP
11:50<Pokka>no more giant than the pile from using trains
11:50<@peter1138>drac_boy, well they crash on large runways too
11:50<andythenorth>it's difficult getting the right number of planes at an airport :P
11:50<andythenorth>I don't want more difficult
11:51<Pokka>it just seems so because you use them for passengers, and with default/most town sets passengers are an unlimited and reliably growing resource :)
11:51<drac_boy>I've never ever had any crashes at all even although the difficulity settings have it enabled
11:51<Pinkbeast>Oh, I don't know, with Nutracks you can blow away money on track upgrades for a while.
11:51<andythenorth>try aircraft for cargo
11:51<Pinkbeast>In-city trams are a bit free-money
11:51<andythenorth>way harder
11:51<andythenorth>and we have these noise limit / airport limits :P
11:51<Pinkbeast>Actually where I have used them in the past (in the UKRS1 days) I used them exclusively for valuables
11:51<andythenorth>and some airports block
11:52<Pokka>in this ole multiplayer game, using av8 and ukrs2
11:52<Pokka>I make about 1.3m a year each from trains and planes
11:52<Pokka>trains running cost is 275k
11:52<Pokka>planes running cost is 375k
11:52<Pinkbeast>... depending on which bit of the interface you ask :-/
11:52-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
11:53<Pokka>so they're not exactly money printers :)
11:53<andythenorth>Pokka: I think the problem people have is 'aircraft are not trains' :P
11:53<@peter1138>hmm
11:53<Pokka>there's that too
11:53<@peter1138>train incom 2.7m
11:53<andythenorth>that disturbs the foamers
11:53<@peter1138>aircraft incom 7m
11:53<andythenorth>and there's nothing to optimise either
11:53<Pinkbeast>Well, that too because trains are best hem hem
11:53<@peter1138>eeeeeeee
11:53<@peter1138>weird
11:53<andythenorth>which disturbs the optimisers
11:53<Pokka>what about the planespotters though?
11:53<andythenorth>they're happy
11:54<Pokka>who want every slight variant and every livery
11:54<andythenorth>but happy people don't whine, right? :P
11:54<Pokka>of every aircraft that flew between 1995 and today
11:54<andythenorth>Pokka: they have WAS no?
11:54<Pinkbeast>But one might ask what the relative cost of the infrastructure was for the trains and planes
11:54<Pokka>yes, andy
11:54<@peter1138>property maintence, 430 :S
11:54<drac_boy>pinkbeast pretty much yeah, in my games it costs a lot just to build one single airport and you don't want to ask about the price for something like a Douglas DC-9 :)
11:55<@peter1138>hmm
11:55<Pokka>almost half my property maintanence cost is airports
11:55<@peter1138>80% of infrastructure cost is airports
11:55<Pokka>and that's with av8's reduced costs
11:55<@peter1138>but it's still hardly any
11:55<Pokka>yes
11:55<@peter1138>intercontinental should cost loads
11:55<Pokka>intercontinental shouldn't exist :)
11:56<drac_boy>that brings up another question related to what I just said...why is basecost not bundled in anyway?
11:56<drac_boy>:)
11:56<Pinkbeast>I tend to build airships because well airships and then want something to do with my airports
11:58<andythenorth>intercontinental should be available in 1965 :P
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>maybe we need to scrap airports and rethink them from scratch
11:59<andythenorth>NewThinking
12:00<andythenorth>NewGRFThinking
12:00<drac_boy>heh heh
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>like have a reserved area, and on it you place loading bays, runways, and taxiways like rail/road
12:02<drac_boy>anyway I need to start some lunch as usual
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12:02<Eddi|zuHause>noise level will limit the number/length of runways
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12:06<@peter1138>pfft
12:06<@peter1138>they'd want copy & pasta
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'd want taxiway-bridges for sure :p
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12:28<@peter1138>code it :p
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>... i don't think so :p
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12:55<@peter1138>hmm
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13:07-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
13:07<@Alberth>evenink
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13:10<andythenorth>hi Alberth
13:11<andythenorth>so where do I get 24917?
13:11<@Alberth>hi, thanks for the PM with the lego rct topic :)
13:11<andythenorth>can't self compile
13:11<andythenorth>np ;)
13:15<@Alberth>http://master.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/nightlies/trunk/r24917/index.html ?
13:15<andythenorth>\o/
13:16<@Alberth>np ;)
13:17<andythenorth>peter1138: where is server?
13:18-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
13:19-!-oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
13:20<oskari89>http://www.hs.fi/kulttuuri/Uusin+James+Bond+-elokuva+sensuroidaan+Kiinassa/a1305638891874
13:20<oskari89>Damn, wrong channel
13:20<oskari89>Pardon me
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13:31-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:32<Wolf01>hi
13:35<@Alberth>hi
13:38-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009b70.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24921 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-01-18 18:45:44 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 2 changes by siu238X
13:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 36 changes by Hellwing
13:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 2 changes by taleinat
13:45<@DorpsGek>icelandic - 1 changes by Stimrol
13:47<@Alberth>quak
13:49<@peter1138>#149695 0x000000000085efc6 in main (argc=4, argv=0x7fffffffe338) at /home/petern/ottd/git/wc1/src/os/unix/unix.cpp:275
13:49<@peter1138>mind have a bit of recursion going on there :p
13:49<@peter1138>*might
13:49<frosch123>moin :)
13:54<@peter1138>hmm, i suppose to avoid the newgrf scan on startup we'd need to cache action 8 and action 14 along with some other bits?
13:58<andythenorth>action 14 is already cached somewhere somehow
13:58<andythenorth>changing action 14 stuff requires a restart of openttd when developing grfs
13:58<andythenorth>is my experience
13:59<andythenorth>might be voodoo
14:00<frosch123>peter1138: yes, a cache of filedate&size -> grfid&md5sum, and a cache of grfid&md5sum -> action8&14&last-used-parameters
14:00<frosch123>andythenorth: it requires a rescan
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14:18<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/colours.gif
14:18<@peter1138>:S
14:19<andythenorth>NewColours
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14:19<andythenorth>peter1138: is that actual orange :o
14:19<Supercheese>Shiny :D
14:19<andythenorth>not orange-that-is-yellow?
14:19<Supercheese>^
14:20<@peter1138>yeah
14:23<@peter1138>RGB colour remaps
14:23<@peter1138>injected over the first remap sprite
14:23<@peter1138>nasty hack ;p
14:24<@peter1138>but means that old favourite of millions of colours is possible without too many complex sums in the blitter
14:25<Supercheese>ALL the colors.jpg
14:25<@peter1138>only issue is 8bpp compatibility :p
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14:26<@peter1138>(this requires a 32bpp blitter of course)
14:27<@peter1138>hmm, could specify a fallback 8bpp remap
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14:28<Supercheese>There shouldn't be any performance hit for using a 32bpp blitter on Windows, right?
14:28<Supercheese>any big hit*
14:28<@peter1138>over 8bpp? possibly, possibly not
14:30<@peter1138>if you run it fullscreen in 8bpp mode, then it'll be a hit
14:31<Supercheese>Fullscreen, eew, windowed much better
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14:36<__ln__>what, doesn't windowed mode need a 8->32 conversion whereas fullscreen may not?
14:36<@peter1138>well if you run your desktop in 256 colours...
14:36<@peter1138>but by default fullscreen switches to 8bpp
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14:37<@peter1138>(which is what causes problems with the background rotator, and dodgy drivers which don't support 8bpp any more)
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14:37<@peter1138>only on windows, btw
14:38<@peter1138>X11 can't be switched to 8bpp without changing the config, iirc
14:38<@peter1138>8bpp DGA mode used to be astoundingly fast though
14:38<@peter1138>that's how i used to run ottd
14:38<@peter1138>hmm, maybe it could switch to 8bpp for DGA only
14:38<@peter1138>but DGA is not supported these days because "opengl is better" :S
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15:06<@peter1138>when is a window's OnTimeout called?
15:06<SpComb>when it times out
15:06<SpComb>I think
15:06<@peter1138>yes, that's what the documentation says :S
15:06<Pokka>informative
15:07<@peter1138>initial timeout duration is 7
15:07<@peter1138>7 whats?
15:07<Rubidium>ticks
15:08<@peter1138>and what is a timeout?
15:08<Rubidium>"call this function after X ticks"
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15:13<frosch123>it's the time which button stay lowered
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15:46<ande>hi
15:47<ande>looking for some advice on patches to load to get a good OTTD experience
15:47<@planetmaker>good evening
15:47<ande>hey
15:48<ande>sorry if its a numpty one, ive just downloaded the latest 1.3 patch and im lost in all the mods
15:48<@planetmaker>getting good openttd experience is best done with the game without add-ons ;-)
15:48<@planetmaker>and... OpenTTD is NOT a patch.
15:49<ande>i have been playing 0.5.1 for ages, loved it but the AI was a bit shoddy in places
15:49<@planetmaker>and as to giving advice on 'good' add-ons: that's going to fail as everyone likes different ones
15:49<@planetmaker>where add-ons can be NewGRFs, AIs and game scripts alike
15:50<ande>appreciate that, i guess as a boring normal user it would be nice for things to be bundled, as i havent a clue what half the stuff is
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15:50<@planetmaker>ande, and... how should it be decided what to bundle?
15:50<ande>themes?
15:50<@planetmaker>Again the same: everyone likes different stuff. That's why it's available from online content... so that people can get what they like
15:51<ande>fair enough :)
15:51<ande>do changes you download apply instantly?
15:51<@planetmaker>If you need suggestions for newgrf combinations... have a look through savegames at our forums: http://forums.openttd.org or maybe also at the game archives of #openttdcoop: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive
15:52<ande>i.e. to saved games
15:52<@planetmaker>mind that not every NewGRF might be available from the online content
15:52<ande>oh cool thanks matey
15:52<ande>i will take a look
15:52<@planetmaker>and... download doesn't mean active for next game. And never active for existing games
15:52<@planetmaker>NewGRFs need be configured *before* creating a new game (map).
15:52<ande>in your opinion which is best AI?
15:52<@planetmaker>And then they can't be changed without trouble
15:53<ande>ahhh thanks... maybe i will just find a challenging AI and be kleaving the GRFs
15:53<@planetmaker>so with newgrfs: don't be afraid to create a few combinations just for a quick test, whether you can transport all cargos, whether you like what you see. And just discard the new game and re-configure newgrfs and re-generate a new map till satisfied
15:54<ande>awesome i will give it a go. thanks
15:54<@planetmaker>AIs... they vary. admiralAI, nocab, cluelessplus, simpleAI... they usually do well
15:54<@planetmaker>but others aren't bad either. And depends on map, ...
15:54<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs
15:55<@Alberth>hi pm :)
15:55<@planetmaker>salut Alberth :-)
15:55<@planetmaker>(and thx for the link)
15:56<@Alberth>I have a menu of standard wiki links for many occassions ;)
15:57<@Alberth>also, the NML plurals table seems wrong, not sure who should be blamed :p
15:58<frosch123>the variety :)
15:58<frosch123>there are plural tables in nfo wiki, nml wiki, ottd wiki, strgen output, ottd source, ...
16:01<@Alberth>but the numbers match :p
16:02<frosch123>the best source is usually just looking at ottd langfiles
16:02<frosch123>after all they seem to work somewhat
16:03<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilnzJBkWfIE
16:04<Pokka>magic, peter
16:05<Supercheese>magick indeed
16:10<@planetmaker>well. NML page on lang files has to be slightly different than OpenTTD lang files. As NewGRFs differ slightly from the real thing
16:10<@planetmaker>but... ofc not wrt what plural forms mean...
16:11<@Alberth>##plural 10 gets decoded as 16 (ie it reads 0x10)
16:12<@Alberth>which is a problem if NUM_PLURAL_FORMS = 12 :)
16:12<frosch123>haha, not everything is hex :)
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16:16<@peter1138>hm
16:16<@peter1138>anyway, my concept works, now i can't be bothered to bring it to completion :p
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause>i know that problem :)
16:21<@peter1138>well... is it worth it?
16:21<@peter1138>there are some... "issues"
16:22<@peter1138>(OnTimeout() worked well enough though :))
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16:26<@peter1138>hmm, test with zbase :D
16:27<@peter1138>no surprise, works fine
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>so what was it that you're actually doing?
16:27<@peter1138>adding more than 16 colours
16:28<@peter1138>for no particular reason
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16:28<Eddi|zuHause>NewColours!
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16:30<@peter1138>hmm, dbsetxl doesn't use any CC does it?
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>nope
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>well, in some cargo wagons i think
16:32<@peter1138>heh i think most newgrf trains are 2cc or non-cc
16:40<frosch123>i guess those who try to do cargo recolouring avoid 2cc
16:40<frosch123>to not need thousands of recolour sprites
16:40<frosch123>but then, who does that actually
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16:40<@peter1138>possibly
16:41<@peter1138>most likely with bit 14 not set
16:41<@peter1138>then it's just a single remap
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: germanrv set :)
16:42<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: heard of it, never used it
16:42<frosch123>it's said to be one of those sets with only buses
16:42<frosch123>and who need buses
16:42<@peter1138>it's also possible to load an RGB remap via newgrf, but also no provision for 8bpp fallback
16:42<frosch123>not me :)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it has three trucks now :)
16:42<@peter1138>although i guess i could just include the 8bpp remap first
16:43<@peter1138>waste a bit of space but make the code simpler
16:43<frosch123>hmm, is there such thing like a alpha remap?
16:43<@peter1138>00 <256 bytes of colour indices> <256 4-byte RGB values>
16:43<@peter1138>actually it is RGBA if you do that
16:43<@peter1138>but i dunno what happens :p
16:44<frosch123>like blending a fixed colour with a company colour
16:44<@peter1138>not
16:44<frosch123>i mean if you use a custom recolour sprite format
16:45<@peter1138>oh
16:45<frosch123>you might also add other features than just replacing colours
16:45<@peter1138>i'll have to see what alpha does
16:46<@peter1138>at the moment i guess it just gets combined with the original alpha
16:50<frosch123>hmm, if the original sprite is 32bpp, you have 255 colours you can just freely reassign
16:51<frosch123>palette anim does not make a lot of sense with rgb recolour
16:51<@peter1138>yeah you could do that
16:51<frosch123>and since you can still change the intensity via the 32bpp thingie, you can use all 255 recolour "slots" for different saturations and hues
16:52<@peter1138>i don't think the 32bpp rendering artists really understand the remapping though
16:52<frosch123>hmm.. though maybe it would be more useful to not use the original rgb for intensity, but use it as rgb for mixing with the alpha of the recolour
16:54<@peter1138>well if you're using the mask then the original rgb is lost currently
16:54<@Terkhen>good night
16:56<frosch123>peter1138: yeah, but if you can specify your own palette for recolouring, you do not need the intensity thing
16:57<frosch123>instead you could smoothly blend the vehicle colour with the cc
16:57<andythenorth>bye
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16:59<@peter1138>hmm, i've broken something :S
17:01<frosch123>andy just left, i guess he took the duct tape with him
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17:21<V453000>haio
17:21<V453000>am I correct that this should make the output written there? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2054/
17:21<V453000>like the 3 options of trains
17:22<V453000>because the speed random switch seems to be independent of the power switch
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17:23<V453000>I am testing with speed 230
17:23<V453000>all trains speed 230 get 7000 or 14000 power
17:23<V453000>not a single 10 000 so far
17:23<V453000>which I find uber weird
17:23<@planetmaker>V453000, callback units are not metric. They're NFO units
17:23<@planetmaker>which is some weired conversion factor into metric
17:24<@peter1138>ergherghah
17:24<V453000>well yeah, it doesnt show as 14000 but as like 14123 or something
17:24<@peter1138>why's it stopped working
17:24<V453000>but that isnt the problem
17:24<V453000>the issue is that I get both 7000 and 14000 trains with 230 speed
17:24<V453000>while they should have only 14 000 always
17:24<V453000>if the speed random switch is dependent on the power switch
17:25<V453000>and furthermore, I didnt get a single 10 000 train at 230 speed, tested already like 100 trains
17:25<@planetmaker>why should that be related, V453000 ?
17:26<@planetmaker>I don't see where you make them use the same random numbers
17:26<V453000>I thought that is what the dependence does?
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17:27<@planetmaker>or rather: you don't set any triggers for it
17:27<@planetmaker>yes, I missed that line. But you set no trigger
17:27<V453000>I have one in the graphics block, is that correct?
17:27<V453000>oh
17:27<V453000>well I had same triggers previously, I was told I can remove them as they dont do anything as it is just dependent on the first results
17:27<@planetmaker>same trigger for power and speed, I'd say
17:28<@planetmaker>aha... then I don't know. And I'm too tired to investigate today, sorry
17:28<@planetmaker>so... good night nonetheless :D
17:28<V453000>I think I even tried that, same results ... trying again
17:29<V453000>trying to add more random triggers to graphics block
17:29<V453000>gn :)
17:29<@planetmaker>I meant in the random_switch of the speed switch
17:29<@planetmaker>you have no bitmask set there
17:29<V453000>yeah I know, that I tried originally
17:30<V453000>hm yeah
17:30<V453000>same outcome
17:31<@peter1138>oh, foudn it
17:31<@peter1138>copy & pasta :p
17:31<V453000>random_trigger: monowtf4_power; random_trigger: monowtf4_speed; probably fixes it :d
17:31<@peter1138>oh
17:31<@peter1138>not fixed
17:31<@peter1138>*grr*
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17:38<Supercheese>Relevant to the discussion on Tuesday: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/gun_control/65_see_gun_rights_as_protection_against_tyranny
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17:56<topher>are there any French?
17:56<Supercheese>French... people? Here in this channel?
17:56<Supercheese>Your question is very generic...
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17:57<topher>I am trying to install Patch Chill Pack. but when I extract the zip and I run openttd he displays error
17:57<frosch123>somewhen there was a openttd.fr site
17:58<Supercheese>Seems the latest ChillPP failed to build on the compile server
17:58<Supercheese>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/chillpp/releases/
17:59<topher>for version 1.2.3?
17:59<Supercheese>ChillPP is older than version 1.2.3, IIRC
17:59<frosch123>there is no such thing as "chillpp for vesion 1.2.3"
18:00<frosch123>there is "chillpp" and there is "1.2.3"
18:00<topher>ok ty for the information
18:00<frosch123>they are two separate things
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18:16*topher slaps frosch123 around a bit with a large trout
18:16<topher>:p
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18:23<frosch123>night
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18:53<Wolf01>'night
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19:02<@peter1138>hhgiwehgiwehg
19:03<@peter1138>well
19:03<Supercheese>Still broken?
19:07<@peter1138>no
19:12<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: :D
19:12<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: Is the new airport in Berlin finally done?
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19:19<@peter1138>but gfxfillrect only takes colours, not palettes
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19:26<@peter1138>hmm
19:34<NGC3982>:(
19:38<@peter1138>what?
19:41<@peter1138>weird
19:41<@peter1138>it works for trains
19:41<NGC3982>:(
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>just remove the other vehicle types :p
19:42<@peter1138>it works for planes too
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>planes are useless
19:43<@peter1138>and ships
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>ships are too slow
19:43<NGC3982>but fun!
19:43<@peter1138>but not RVs
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>RVs are too small
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19:48<@peter1138>ooookay
19:48<@peter1138>it works
19:48<@peter1138>just not for egrvts
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>they use custom recolour maps?
19:49<@peter1138>yeah :S
19:54<@peter1138>can't grfcodec -d it :S
19:54<@peter1138>must be nml though
19:54<@peter1138>it decoded up to 51000 nfo sprites so far
19:54<@peter1138>Error while decoding sprite, got 3, wanted 4, at 8499854: Success
19:55<@peter1138>8499854 is the end of the fie
19:55<@peter1138>*file
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>"Error: Success" these are the greatest of them all :p
19:58<Supercheese>hahaha
19:58<@peter1138>Error while decoding sprite, got 3, wanted 4, at 8499854: No such file or directory
19:58<@peter1138>it says that on first try
19:58<@peter1138>and Success on the second try
19:58<@peter1138>so it's using an invalid errno
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe your grfcodec is outdated?
20:00<@peter1138>nope
20:01<Pokka>ho ho
20:01<Pokka>ice industries
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20:01<Pokka>this sounds like a bad idea
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>can't be worse than ice trains :p
20:03<@peter1138>oh well, it's an 8MB newgrf
20:03<@peter1138>i'll assume it contains a local copy of the 2cc recolour maps :S
20:04<Pokka>?
20:04<@peter1138>egrvts2
20:04<@peter1138>mahoooosive newgrf which doesn't decode properly
20:04<Pokka>why would it contain a local copy of the 2cc recolour maps?
20:04<Pokka>which aren't that big?
20:05<Supercheese>Ice industries?
20:05*Supercheese 's NewObject set includes ice objects...
20:05<@peter1138>cos it has recolouring options
20:05<Pokka>hmm
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know about egrvts, but GermanRV has autogenerated recolourmaps for 2cc+cargo recolouring (around 1000 in total)
20:06<Pokka>house trange :)
20:06<@peter1138>then i've just done all this for no reason!
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20:06<Pokka>all egrvts2's fault
20:07<Supercheese>it doesn't have 32bpp or extra zoom gfx does it?
20:07<@peter1138>no
20:07<Supercheese>sheesh, how'd it get 8 MB
20:07<@peter1138>hmm
20:08<@peter1138>it's got 51000 nfo lins
20:08<@peter1138>*lines
20:09<Supercheese>No sources available... :S
20:09<Supercheese>None I've found anyway
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>393072 cets.nfo
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>(wc -l, that is)
20:10<Supercheese>Hmm, I wonder how many .nfo lines my grfs have, I never look at the nfo
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>nml doesn't generate the nfo by default ;)
20:11<Supercheese>Yep
20:11<@peter1138>heresy!
20:11<Supercheese>A measly 1527
20:12<Supercheese>that's including all the translations I got
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>hearsay?
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>are we in court?
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20:12<@peter1138>no heresey
20:12<@peter1138>no heresy
20:12<Supercheese>here-ish
20:12<Supercheese>sort-of-here
20:12<Supercheese>Good lord, NFO is atrocious
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's not that bad, if it's commented :p
20:13<Supercheese>It... is that bad
20:13<@peter1138>oh well
20:13<Supercheese>but that's a matter of opinion
20:13<@peter1138>ukrs2 works
20:14<@peter1138>and av8 works
20:14<Supercheese>Well, Pikka-code is likely superior code :P
20:14<@peter1138>and fish works
20:14<@peter1138>just egrvts2 smells!
20:15<Pokka>how does it have 51000 lines?
20:15<Pokka>it doesn't have /that/ many vehicles, and they don't do that much.
20:15<@peter1138>lots of sprites
20:15<@peter1138>lots of action 9/D lines
20:15<Supercheese>sound effects? are those encoded directly in the nfo?
20:15<Supercheese>no, they're waved
20:15<Supercheese>nevermind
20:16<@peter1138>egrvts1 works!
20:17<Supercheese>there are two egrvts2s, IIRC
20:17<Supercheese>which are you decoding?
20:17<@peter1138>none at the moment
20:17<Supercheese>are/did
20:17<@peter1138>r181 it says in game
20:17<@peter1138>175 it says in the directory
20:17<Supercheese>There's also eGRVTS2_WIP2.grf
20:18<Supercheese>which is older and less complete
20:18<@peter1138>o_O
20:18<Supercheese>eGRSTS2-nml.grf is the newest methinks
20:18<Supercheese>heh, with that typo? or did I somehow make that...
20:20<Supercheese>No, typo was Zephyris'
20:20<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=51977&start=160#p1045780
20:21<Supercheese>does that one, perchance, decompile?
20:21<Supercheese>nope, errored out
20:22<@peter1138>Error while decoding sprite, got 3, wanted 4, at 8499844: No such file or directory
20:22<Supercheese>same error
20:22<Pokka>D:
20:22<Supercheese>eGRVTS2_WIP2.grf decompiles
20:23<Supercheese>but as I said, it's much older :S
20:23<Pokka>you're not wrong
20:24<Supercheese>what is needing to be extracted?
20:24<Pokka>you're also not wrong about all the action 9s, Ds, and sheesh, 6s.
20:24<Pokka>who uses action 6?
20:25<Supercheese>NML?
20:26<Pokka>then NML is a twit
20:27<@peter1138>well, GRM
20:27<Pokka>it appears grfcodec can't manage to generate the png, presumably because it's too big
20:29<Pokka>hmm
20:29<Pokka>or it's the sounds it trips over on?
20:31<@peter1138>not sure
20:34<Pokka>it seems to break after the first wav sprite
20:35<Pokka>and fails to output the wav
20:35<@peter1138>that's the only wav in the grf
20:35<Supercheese>You can extract spritesheets
20:36<Supercheese>Hmm, grfcodec picks wrong palette by default
20:37<Pokka>well, it's the only one in the outputted nfo
20:37<Pokka>hence "first" :)
20:38<Pokka>11 01 00, okay, it's the only one then
20:38<@peter1138>rather a lot of cargo variants
20:39<Pokka>mad if you don't
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 19 00:00:08 2013