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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-26

---Logopened Sat Jan 26 00:00:21 2013
00:41<Flygon>Hahaha oh wow
00:41<Flygon>That has GOT to be a mistake
00:55<Pikka>cargo payment calculation sure is proof that chris sawyer is a lunatic
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01:22<Supercheese>Hah, first aircraft carrier was in 1861
01:22<Supercheese>carrying hydrogen reconnaissance balloons, but those are still aircraft :P
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01:41<Pikka>"hmm" I wonder if some people will be annoyed if I use "CMNT" for coal ash :)
01:42<@peter1138>of course
01:42<Pikka>but reusing cargo labels is good!
01:42<Pikka>innit? :)
01:43<@peter1138>redefine them!
01:43<Pikka>ho ho
01:43<@peter1138>and redefine the classes too!
01:43<@peter1138>that's why they're customizable right?
01:43<Pikka>of course!
01:44<Pikka>in bags
01:44<Pikka>sounds good for vans
01:44<Pikka>doesnt sound so good for hoppers and tankers
01:44<Pikka>fertiliser in litres, vice versa :)
01:44<@peter1138>cargo subtypes
01:44<Pikka>don't work like that
01:44<@peter1138>fake it!
01:45<@peter1138>have a packing plant
01:45<Pikka>it shall be bags and people shall like it
01:45<@peter1138>that converts bulk fertiliser to bagged fertiliser
01:45<@peter1138>then have more than 32 cargo types
01:46<Pikka>look at this silly cheat menu
01:46<Pikka>"Jetplanes will not crash (frequently) on small airports
01:47<Pikka>even with the default vehicles, it is not the case that large aircraft == "Jetplanes"
01:47<Supercheese>Jetplanes --> Large Aircraft
01:51<@peter1138>oh you silly egrvts, ignoring my custom colour scheme :S
01:54<@peter1138>maybe i could... cheat
01:57<@peter1138>i think i will try it :D
02:11<@peter1138>yeah boy
02:13<@peter1138>now... why does egrvts return base + colour1 + colour2 * 16 instead of just base + bit 14
02:13<Pikka>hysterical reasons
02:14<@peter1138>also, let's try these reversed colour planes
02:14<@peter1138>YEAH BOI
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02:20<@peter1138>nah, the hackiest part of this patch is injecting recolour sprites
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02:31<Pikka>ow andy
02:32<andythenorth>o hai
02:33<@peter1138>hmm, all the sprites flicker at some point
02:33<@peter1138>but it's just for one frame
02:34<@peter1138>(we could be heroes...)
02:34<andythenorth>aphex remix
02:38<andythenorth>ho I've got a Peter Gabriel cover of it too
02:38<andythenorth>but Let's Dance
02:44<andythenorth>if looks could kill
02:44<andythenorth>Pikka: I'd like to buy some made up trains for UKRS 2
02:44<andythenorth>for use after about 2000
02:44<Pikka>make some up
02:45<Pikka>and post them on the tracking table or something ;)
02:45<andythenorth>that involves work
02:45<andythenorth>can't I just pay :P
02:45<andythenorth>where's your shop?
02:45<Supercheese>the UKRS1 made-up trains aren't satisfactory, I take it?
02:45<Pikka>otoh, everything is 66s
02:45<Pikka>it's realistic, innit
02:46<andythenorth>everything a shed
02:46<andythenorth>yes realism, that is good
02:46<andythenorth>More Realism!
02:47<Pikka>what niches do you feel need filling?
02:47<andythenorth>small fast :P
02:47<Pikka>smaller non-electric locomotives?
02:47<andythenorth>ha let's be realistic
02:47<andythenorth>DRS 20s and 37s
02:47<andythenorth>GBRF 73s
02:47<andythenorth>Colas 56s
02:47<andythenorth>scrub the last one they're crappy
02:48<andythenorth>that class 14 that works mainline
02:48*andythenorth is not a foamer honest
02:48<Pikka>the 20s and 37s and 73s are already there, so what's the problem? :)
02:48<Pikka>wrong liveries!
02:48<andythenorth>the server owner has engine expiry on
02:48<andythenorth>the 20 is there
02:48<andythenorth>but reliability is poor
02:48<Pikka>what year is it?
02:49<andythenorth>about 2012 I think
02:49<andythenorth>when I quit
02:49<Pikka>they should still be alrightish in 2012 perhaps...
02:49<andythenorth>oh let's do the CargoTram thing
02:49<andythenorth>Network Rail have them, we can play "let's pretend"
02:49<andythenorth>they were trialled hauling wood in wales
02:50<@peter1138>oh right, i should place my 66s with powerhauls
02:52<@peter1138>and those JBs
02:54<Pikka>67 is (relatively) small and fast...
02:54<@peter1138>it's no 400mph maglev! ;p
02:54<Pikka>trucks are small and (relatively) fast ;)
02:55<andythenorth>67 is £18k / year
02:55<andythenorth>I can't add it to trains that make £12k / year :P
02:55<Pikka>cheap at half the price!
02:55<andythenorth>nobody made a good truck set yet :)
02:55<@peter1138>woo, a-train
02:55<Pikka>they might make more with a 67!!
02:56<andythenorth>if I replace the siphon vans :P
02:56<@peter1138>less powerful than the pendo though
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02:59<Pikka> progress!
02:59<@peter1138>how long should an a-train consist be? :p
02:59<andythenorth>coal ash :)
03:00<Pikka>no, cmnt :)
03:00<andythenorth>fair points
03:01<Pikka>such slow loading :)
03:01<Pikka>I get up to about 350/375kib loaded and then it kicks me :D
03:02<andythenorth>it's a long long way to tipperary
03:02<andythenorth>and brisban
03:02<Pikka>about 20 minutes, peter1138
03:02<andythenorth>even SSH is slow to our australian boxes :P
03:02<Pikka>must be the heat
03:02<andythenorth>lots of packet loss usually
03:02<Pikka>or alternatively, the rain :)
03:03<andythenorth>floods :P
03:03<@peter1138>what's the setting to increase the timeout?
03:03<Pikka>they're telling us it's not going to flood this time, andy. probably.
03:03<@peter1138>ok, max_join_time double
03:03<@peter1138>hope that's the right one
03:04<andythenorth>so who's drawn one of those Windhoff things?
03:04<andythenorth>someone should :P
03:05<andythenorth>it's just cabs on a container flat
03:05<@peter1138>old ukrs had something like that no?
03:05<andythenorth>I could add one to HEQS, but then we don't get all pikka's ukrs cleverness
03:06<@peter1138>there was that train that was 10 units long or something
03:06<andythenorth>also drawing time is curtailed by "getting children haircuts"
03:06<Pikka>ukrs didn't have something like that
03:06<@peter1138>except ottd didn't build it right for years and skipped the last piece
03:06<Pikka>but if you draw it I'll add it to ukrs2
03:06<@peter1138>*steals from ukrs1*
03:06<andythenorth>there is one somewhere
03:06<andythenorth>in a set
03:06<andythenorth>might be a tram set actually
03:06<andythenorth>not sure
03:07<andythenorth>heqs has these
03:07<andythenorth>which I am a bit too smug about
03:07<andythenorth>time to go :|
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03:13<andythenorth_>Phone irc eh
03:13<andythenorth_>Who knew
03:14<andythenorth_>Pikka no clay hoods in ukrs 2?
03:15<Pikka>aren't there?
03:16<andythenorth_>Not firs clay afaict
03:16<andythenorth_>Might be wrong
03:16<Pikka>should be
03:16<Pikka>on the mgr hoppers
03:16<Pikka>and 5 planks
03:17<Pikka>maybe if you didn't specify clay as covered it won't use them
03:17<andythenorth_>Classes :p
03:25<andythenorth_>Pikka no beer in tai? Fur shame
03:25<andythenorth_>Food goggles
03:25<Pikka>in fact, breweries become a subtype of fpp D:
03:26<andythenorth_>Port: imports wine
03:26*andythenorth_ should do a mediterranean economy
03:26<andythenorth_>Olives wine cheese
03:28<@peter1138>invisible ships!
03:28<andythenorth_>Pikka plastic...from? To?
03:29<Pikka>from oil refineries to factories, same as PBI
03:29<@peter1138>lego shops
03:30<@peter1138>cargo type kids
03:30<andythenorth_>Hmm maybe i can go lego shopping today
03:30<Pikka>it could as well be "chemicals", but whatever
03:30<@peter1138>random cargo names
03:30<Pikka>"refined products", eww
03:31<andythenorth_>Firs uses that lbal
03:32<@peter1138>A masked gunman has died after being pinned down and restrained by customers during an armed robbery at a bookmakers in Plymouth, police say.
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03:36<@Terkhen>good morning
03:36<@Alberth>moin Terkhen
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03:54<Pikka>using big planes on small airports because crashes are turned off
03:54<Pikka>how cheaty
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05:07<@peter1138>as i was saying...
05:07<@peter1138>egrvts now working and reversed cc supported
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: so does it work with GermanRV as well?
05:13<@peter1138>who knows?
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: test it? :p
05:13<@peter1138>hmm, 2008
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>there are newer ones
05:13<@peter1138>not on the fruit
05:14<V453000>openttdcoop pack
05:14<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the grf pack probably didn't update it
05:15<@peter1138>not interested
05:15<@peter1138>no bananas = no testing
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: then, please tell him that ;)
05:16<@peter1138>not my problem
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>it's my problem, but if always the same people tell these people, it won't make it more likely for them to listen
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05:26<@peter1138>could do with depot windows resizing based on sprite size :S
05:28<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, anyway, if it doesn't do anything with recolours it probably works fine
05:28<Eddi|zuHause>it does crazy stuff with recolours, that's why i'm asking
05:35<@peter1138>doomed waypoint concept!
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05:36<Eddi|zuHause>the signal concept is equally doomed... but he doesn't get it...
05:39<@peter1138>oh no, it crashed when i added a ton of grfs!
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05:44<@peter1138>hmm, yeah
05:44<@peter1138>dbg: [sprite] Tried to load normal sprite #73551 as a recolour sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
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05:48<@peter1138>fixed that
05:48<@peter1138>not really a bug cos it only happens when changing newgrfs :p
05:49<@peter1138>heh, the 8/32bpp 2cc trains are... um...
05:50<@peter1138>very dark heh
05:51<@peter1138>also a bit too big
05:54<@peter1138>holy shit the 2cc set has a lot of vehicles
05:59<Pikka>at least 3
05:59<V453000>3 useful ones, yes :)
06:00<@peter1138>rgb recolours should be banned
06:02<V453000>is that in trunk yet?
06:02<@peter1138>not sure it should be :p
06:02<V453000>why not :d
06:03<@peter1138>^ because
06:03<V453000>whats wrong there :d
06:05<@peter1138>what's right there?
06:06<V453000>its nice to have the option to make custom colours?
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06:21<@peter1138>damn, i need underground stations :p
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06:22<Eddi|zuHause>code them! :p
06:22<@peter1138>nah they're a doomed concept
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06:54<andythenorth>underground stations smell
06:54<andythenorth>of wee
06:55<andythenorth>"oh look at my massive underground steel mill station"
06:55<andythenorth>also the catchment area would need a z dimension
06:55<andythenorth>and catchments are messy enough without gaining volume :P
06:57<@peter1138>should i allow rgb rectangle/line drawing?
07:00<andythenorth>to the tile? Or arbitrarily to the screen?
07:00<@peter1138>to the screen
07:00<@peter1138>i mean window titles etc etc
07:00<andythenorth>might as well
07:00<andythenorth>if people use it for bad stuff, we can laugh at them?
07:01<andythenorth>patch authors could specify whacky window drawing?
07:01<andythenorth>just a recolour?
07:02<@peter1138>^ window title bars etc etc
07:02<@peter1138>does not use rgb remap
07:02<andythenorth>'sliders by crayola'
07:03<@peter1138>no labels needed :p
07:03<@peter1138>except for contrast, heh
07:03<@peter1138>could improve that window i suppose:p
07:04<andythenorth>Pikka ponk, do you have a spritesheet for container flat things?
07:06<@peter1138>vehicle servicing should take time
07:06<andythenorth>it does :P
07:07<andythenorth>screws with your network mightily
07:07<NGC3982>Morning people, and __ln__.
07:08<Pikka>there you go andy
07:13<__ln__>morning NGC3982 and humans
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: it's formula 1 style servicing :)
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07:23<__ln__>what if one of them commits a crime and has to go to prison?
07:26<Pikka>presflo carries timber as default cargo with firs D:
07:26<@peter1138>liquified wood
07:28<Pikka>my computer is too slow to keep up with the server
07:28<Pikka>really? D:
07:29<andythenorth>Pikka: FIRS uses WDPR
07:29<andythenorth>which is bulk :(
07:29<andythenorth>hysterical raisins
07:29<Pikka>TaI uses WDPR
07:29<Pikka>which isn't bulk :D
07:29<andythenorth>it includes wood chips
07:30<andythenorth>you have to make it bulk :P
07:30<Pikka>it doesn't and I don't ;)
07:30<andythenorth>otherwise you are Out Of Spec :)
07:30<Pikka>oh well
07:30<andythenorth>and the will be trouble before bed
07:30<andythenorth>there *
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07:31<Pikka>how about "express" cargos with a note saying that "you should set another cargo class too", despite the fact that the default "express" cargo is "express" only?
07:31<Pikka>as a means to.. what was it?
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i thought about that, but discarded that thought
07:32<Pikka>an attempt to propagate his own unqualified "tourists" concept against other vehicle set coders
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
07:33*Pikka shrugs
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07:34<Eddi|zuHause>with a properly built vehicle set, it should not matter whether WDPR is bulk or not. there should always be a wagon that loads it
07:34<Pikka>the way I see it, we have weird cargo labels with weird cargo classes, courtesy of the continentals
07:35<__ln__>why isn't the plural of human 'humen'?
07:35<Pikka>it's better to stick with the existing cargo labels, because if every grf author makes up their own labels there's no point having them at all
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: we've had very lengthy discussions about how to bring some sense into the cargo scheme :p
07:36<Pikka>and as far as cargo classes go, if it's a choice between making my wagons carry weird things and making mb's wagons carry weird things, I'll pick the latter. :)
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>and then we had equally lengthy discussions about how to bring some sense into the railtype scheme :p
07:36<@peter1138>you're all mad
07:39<Pikka>and exactly eddi, it shouldn't matter if my "WDPR" is "Lumber" and doesn't include woodchips, any vehicle set should still be able to carry it just fine
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, we care about trains and stuff... of course we are all mad
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: you may get weird effects with sets using the old cargo refit mask instead of the new include/exclude lists
07:44<@peter1138>WDPR... processed wood?
07:47<Pikka>Forecast for Sunday
07:47<Pikka>Cloudy with rain periods, heavy at times. Strong to gale force E to NE winds with damaging wind gusts, possibly locally destructive.
07:47<Pikka>bring back the heatwave
07:47<Pikka>A Severe Weather Warning for Damaging to Destructive Winds, Heavy Rainfall, Abnormally High Tides and Dangerous Surf is current. A Flood Warning is current for coastal rivers and adjacent inland streams and catchments.
07:48<andythenorth>go swimming
07:48<andythenorth>Pikka: your vehicles refit on classes or labels?
07:49<andythenorth>obv. both, but which are you relying on for graphics?
07:49*andythenorth is making no sense to self
07:49<Pikka>depends :)
07:50<andythenorth>after "The great 5 day class debate of 2011"
07:50<andythenorth>I concluded that if you care, use labels, otherwise it's lucky dip
07:50<andythenorth>also that there is lots of bad advice about classes :P
07:50<Pikka>labels for what you have specific graphics for, classes for the rest, fairly straightforward :)
07:51<Pikka>like the open wagons have specific loads for coal, iore, etc, and then just grey stuff for uncovered and hood for covered
07:52<andythenorth>you can break WDPR
07:52<andythenorth>because the classes shouldn't fricking matter :P
07:52<andythenorth>maybe I should too
07:53<andythenorth>I fill your wagons up with all kinds of random stuff :P
07:53<andythenorth>FISH in the big covered hopper :P
07:53<Pikka>don't you just
07:54<Pikka>meanwhile, upstate:
07:54<Pikka>For Sunday:
07:54<Pikka>Severe Fire Danger in the North West, Central West and Channel Country
07:54<Pikka>districts, and southwest parts of the Northern Goldfields and Upper Flinders,
07:54<Pikka>and western parts of the Maranoa and Warrego districts. Temperatures up to 43 degrees, relative humidity down to 15% and winds to 45
07:54<Pikka>km/hr are expected.
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>sounds nice :)
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of :)
08:01<@peter1138>and the coloured girls go do do-do do-do do do do..
08:03<andythenorth>Pikka: bit biblical no?
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08:10<andythenorth>so Windhoffs. They come in 700hp-2100hp varieties (1 or 2 cab cars), and 75mph-86mph
08:10<andythenorth>and seem to carry up to about 100t
08:13<andythenorth>in Switzerland they are used as push-pull control cars with electric locos
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09:04<andythenorth>not powers of 2
09:10<andythenorth>ho ho FIRS r3333
09:10<andythenorth>nice number
09:18<Flygon>Push pull with electric locos?
09:18<Flygon>Are these Diesel locos or DMU's?
09:20<andythenorth>one is a locomotive
09:20<andythenorth>two is an MU :P
09:21<andythenorth>it's a powered control car I guess
09:21<Flygon> the MU portion Diesel or Electric?
09:23<@peter1138>what are you talking about?
09:29<@peter1138>loving this obnoxious lime green
09:30*peter1138 ponder text colour too...
09:32<andythenorth>I have imporved FIRS
09:33<Flygon>andythenorth: Scuse the delay
09:34<@peter1138>my poor eyes!
09:34<Flygon>Ah, Diesel?
09:37<andythenorth>peter1138: that's fricking awesome
09:37<andythenorth>it actually hurts
09:45<andythenorth>lang is a PITA
09:45<andythenorth>english_us and english_au
09:45<andythenorth>are stupid
09:46<andythenorth>I should remove them from FIRS
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09:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: a powered control car is called an engine
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so why do you care about these?
09:50<andythenorth>want some in UKRS 2
09:50<andythenorth>I don't care what they're called - flygon does
09:51<andythenorth>I have to draw them though :P
09:54<Flygon>I'm confused
09:55<Flygon>Here, what you'r driving from can either be a control cab of a locomotive or a control cab of a D/EMU
09:55<Flygon>But non-powered cabs are banned by unions
09:56<andythenorth>why are you confused?
09:57<@peter1138>non-powered cabs banned! useful
09:58<Flygon>peter1138: Scuse the grammar error
09:58<Flygon>Long story short
09:58<Pikka>I shall call them Andypotatoes
09:58<@peter1138>these ttd colours look dull now ;(
09:59<Flygon>Unions got freaked by incidents involving single-locomotive push-pull sets overseas, and refused to drive retrofitted Harris trains (retrofitted for Diesel use)
09:59<andythenorth>my eyes my eyes
09:59<Flygon>So now they operate with a Diesel on both ends
09:59<andythenorth>australia: safety first
09:59<Flygon>As it turns out, the P-class Diesels are so pathetically weak (compared to the modern DMU fleet) that they need the extra traction to work timetables anyway
10:00<Flygon>I prefer a loco on each end for the acceleration benefits alone
10:00<@peter1138>oh god zbase vehicles are too big
10:02<@peter1138>dynarod colours
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10:02<@peter1138>oh they're called dyno now
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10:09<andythenorth>Flygon: here's your AU variant
10:09<Flygon>I'm referring to Victoria
10:10<Flygon>Each state has different standards, companies, and most frustratingly, gauges
10:10<Flygon>I've NEVER seen a CargoSprinter in Victoria
10:10<@peter1138>^ do you even boundingbox?
10:10<andythenorth>Flygon: there's only oen
10:10<Flygon>Explains a lot
10:10<Flygon>It's Perthbound
10:13<Flygon> Thank god the 80s never actually painted this like... this
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10:33<Eddi|zuHause>nobody cares about bounding boxes :p
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>this extra zoom makes it hugely obvious that they're toy cars
10:37<andythenorth>I'm fixing my bounding box bug in FIRS :P
10:37<andythenorth>right now
10:38<andythenorth>so phooey :P
10:43<andythenorth>still flickering :P
10:44<andythenorth>bored now :P
10:45<andythenorth>it's inside the BB
10:45<frosch123>make sure sprites do not extent towards left or right of west and east tile borders
10:45<frosch123>the BB usually does not matter at all
10:45<andythenorth>maybe the extents are wrong
10:45<frosch123>and the rule "the sprite has to be inside the BB" is completly wrong
10:45<frosch123>ignore it
10:46<frosch123>delete it whereever you find it
10:46<frosch123>it is the stupidest thing to say
10:46<frosch123>it's just wrong
10:46<@peter1138>BB only matters when they interact
10:47<andythenorth>how is blue treated wrt 'cannot extend beyond tile borders' ?
10:48<@peter1138>andythenorth, don't extend below the the south edges either :p
10:49<andythenorth>ok so ignore bounding box, just using that to show tile extent
10:50<andythenorth>it's a childsprite btw
10:50<andythenorth>I could just solve this by deleting it
10:50<andythenorth>but then I don't learn anything :P
10:50<frosch123>oh, childsprites may not extent the size of the parent sprite
10:50<frosch123>extent the parent sprite with transparency if needed
10:51<andythenorth>meh, delete
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10:53<oskari892>How many paraller rails do you have had in your scenarios, at maximum?
10:54<oskari892>At the moment I've got 24
10:54<oskari892>12 in each direction
10:54<@peter1138>in a scenario?
10:55<@peter1138>you can place rails in a scenario
11:00<oskari892>Well, scenarios -> games
11:00<oskari892>I meant games, sorry :)
11:00<andythenorth>how do ports work?
11:00<andythenorth>stuff -> in
11:00<andythenorth>other stuff -> out
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, possibly like primary industries
11:06<andythenorth>dunno what amounts to use for in and out though
11:07<andythenorth>amount out - probably depends on cargo and economy
11:07<andythenorth>amount in, meh, no idea
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11:15<Wolf01>hello o/
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11:22<Wolf01> whoa, this is really well done
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11:28<andythenorth>ho yes
11:30<@peter1138>more details than a hornby
11:30<@peter1138>more details than a zbase sprite :S
11:30<andythenorth>mmm hornby
11:30*andythenorth needs to buy a trainset
11:30<andythenorth>for the office
11:31<andythenorth>why is cargodist described as micromanagement?
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11:32<andythenorth>seems opposite to me
11:32<andythenorth>why is infrastructure sharing micromanagement?
11:32<@peter1138>what's wrong with micromanagement in a game about management
11:32<@peter1138>i mean, trains are just secondary :p
11:33<Wolf01>you could use only ships :P
11:34<Rubidium>infrastructure sharing is definitely micromanagement. All infrastructure should be shared by everyone, just like non-rail infrastructure is
11:34<Rubidium>adding all kinds of settings and payment systems just makes it micromanagementesque
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11:37*andythenorth wants industry ownership
11:37<andythenorth>but the foamers will never agree
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11:38<Eddi|zuHause>there is no problem with micromanagement if you also have the appropriate macromanagement options
11:41<andythenorth>one of the things I hate most in games is micromanagement
11:41<andythenorth>for example, in mario
11:41<andythenorth>I have to actually press 'jump' to collect stuff and avoid baddies
11:41<andythenorth>and 'right' to advance through the level
11:41<andythenorth>I should just be able to set start and end point
11:41<andythenorth>micromanagement is bad
11:41<andythenorth>maybe :P
11:42<andythenorth>peter1138: I fixed that FIRS fishing harbour bug you caused
11:43<andythenorth>with flickery flicker
11:43<Wolf01>andythenorth, you gave me a great idea, a platform game where you need to plan only the path, then see it play by itself
11:43<@peter1138>i caused? what?
11:43<andythenorth>you reported it
11:43<andythenorth>it didn't exist before then
11:45<@peter1138>i see
11:45<andythenorth>tree, falling, forest, etc
11:45<andythenorth>philosophy crap
11:45<andythenorth>now I have to do some code tidying
11:45<andythenorth>how droll :P
11:46<@peter1138>me too:
11:47<@peter1138>such nasty work :p
11:48<andythenorth>mine looks easier
11:48<andythenorth>more copy-pastey :P
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12:45<@peter1138>right, time to rewrite
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13:26<@peter1138>urgh, rgb text colouring is ugly
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13:40<@peter1138>ok, tidied it up
13:41<@peter1138>it might even compile
13:42<@peter1138>ah that's better
13:42<@peter1138>no ugly global vars!
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24943 trunk/src/lang/estonian.txt (2013-01-26 18:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>estonian - 4 changes by notAbot
13:54<andythenorth>mart3p has released new ISR ;)
14:01<andythenorth>for some value of 'release' :P
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14:06<andythenorth>bananas should have a nightly grfs option
14:06<@peter1138>nah, it'd be abused
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14:45<@peter1138>[master ad6fbad] Support RGB text colour.
14:45<@peter1138>YEAH BOI
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14:50<@peter1138>oh gosh
14:50<@peter1138>garish graphs!
14:52<andythenorth>if I use a virtual env, my runs in 7s instead of 13s
14:52<andythenorth>maybe different python versions :P
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15:05<@Alberth>import time; time.sleep(5)
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15:06<andythenorth>thanks :)
15:06<andythenorth>trolls me and runs away :P
15:07*Rubidium wonders whether Alberth returns in 5 minute, hours, days, weeks, forthnights, moons, months, years, ...
15:08*andythenorth wonders if this produces valid nml
15:08<andythenorth> accepted_cargos: [${','.join(['['+ i +', 8]' for i in industry.get_property('accept_cargo_types', economy)])}];
15:08<andythenorth>ugly :)
15:09<andythenorth>ho seems to work
15:09<@peter1138>is it as ugly as my colour schemes?
15:10<andythenorth>about same
15:11<andythenorth>breaking savegames is worth a minor version bump eh?
15:11<frosch123>maybe you can write it in awk syntax then :p
15:12*andythenorth needs some port graphcs
15:12<andythenorth>graphics *
15:12<frosch123>About 716,000,000 results
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>anyone besides me find it odd that UKRS2 has version 1.x and not 2.x?
15:13<Supercheese>Mmm, port
15:14<andythenorth>there are not enough alcohol themed grfs
15:14<frosch123>hmm, apparently i called it manual industries 2-r5
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: a bunch of warehouses and cranes? ISR-style objects?
15:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: fortunately dan has sent me some :)
15:14<andythenorth>I just have to slice them and cra
15:14*andythenorth ponders a total graphics replacement grf
15:14<@peter1138>setting wait times is so awkward :S
15:15<andythenorth>peter1138: +1
15:15<@peter1138>order list with a couple dozen items...
15:15<andythenorth>anyone remember amiga micro machines?
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: timetabling in general is very lacking
15:15<frosch123>peter1138: implement multiselection :p
15:15<andythenorth>base set would be tablecloth etc
15:16<andythenorth>industries would be cheeseboard, wine bottle
15:16<andythenorth>delivery would be to 'plates'
15:16<@peter1138>frosch123, i'm still faffing around with doomed concepts
15:16<Supercheese>Customer requires Food to grow. Food delivered this minute:
15:16<frosch123>well, as long as they are fun :)
15:16<@peter1138>it's not like you need your eyes is it?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: lots of room for toyland replacements
15:17<@peter1138>rgb colours now supported for rectangles/lines/pixels and text
15:17<andythenorth>Supercheese: I think you added lots of redundant strings in to FIRS us english btw ;)
15:17<frosch123>sounds like minimap
15:17<andythenorth>I committed it anyway
15:17<@peter1138>excluding minimap
15:17<Supercheese>I just copied the regular english
15:17<@peter1138>cos that uses its own crazy pixel system :p
15:18*Supercheese shrugs
15:18<andythenorth>yeah :)
15:18<andythenorth>so now any changes to english have to be made in two places not one ;)
15:18<@peter1138>no point in adding them if there's no change, right?
15:18<andythenorth>you are now official translator
15:18<frosch123>well, too many colours do not always improve looks :)
15:19<frosch123>the broodwar minimap is kind of easier to read than the sc2 one
15:19<frosch123>though it does not look as fancy :)
15:19<andythenorth>did we solve 'setting up an MP game quickly' yet?
15:19<@peter1138>but zbase is perfect!
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15:20<Eddi|zuHause>i'm always reading sim city when someone is speaking of sc2
15:20<frosch123>maybe the minimap should use icons instead of colours
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>takes my brain to adjust a bit each time "wait, he can't mean simcity, must mean starcraft"
15:20<frosch123>if there are more than 10 industry types, the colours are quite useless
15:20<@peter1138>and the legend is both too small and takes up too much space
15:20<frosch123>and if you filter for a industry selection, it is kind of luck whether the colours become useful or not
15:21<@peter1138>that group of buttons should be moved back to the right hand size of the view
15:21<frosch123>hmm, yeah, like the graph thingie
15:21<Supercheese>The FIRS Sugar Refinery color is especially blarg, since the green blends in with the default green-terrain color
15:22<andythenorth>use purple :P
15:22<Supercheese>and I cba to change that
15:22<frosch123>maybe it could even be expanded with some toggle button
15:22<frosch123>most of the times you do not need the legend i thingk
15:22<andythenorth>everyone should have a purple map
15:22<Supercheese>Purple topography... yeah, no
15:22<andythenorth>both of the greens have almost zero contrast
15:23<frosch123>andythenorth: use matlab-style plots :) blue -> yellow -> red
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>the industry map needs something to filter for input/output cargo, i always have to the industry chain, go to the cargo, and then click show on map
15:23<andythenorth>I have no colour perception issues, but those green colours blend with the blue
15:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: 'show sources of cargo'
15:23<andythenorth>'show demand for cargo'
15:23<frosch123>i like the dark green
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i mean especially "show both ore mine and steel mill"
15:24<frosch123>the purple is too disruptive
15:24<frosch123>it makes no good contrast to most colours
15:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you can do that from industry chain?
15:24<andythenorth>well my map is purple
15:24<andythenorth>so one of you had better review FIRS colours :)
15:24<andythenorth>and fix any that are broken on green
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, but only by choosing ore mine and steel mill, not by choosing ore
15:25<frosch123>andythenorth: firs is the reason i coded the blink on mouse over :p
15:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I don't follow?
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: which means i must always remember which industries have which cargo input/output
15:25<frosch123>other than that i also use the chain window to filter
15:25<andythenorth>you need up / down arrows for output / input
15:25<andythenorth>on minimap
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that is not at all what i am talking about
15:26<andythenorth>what are you talking about ?
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>i want: ALL industries that have something to do with "ore"
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>so i can have an overview what i can transport where
15:26<andythenorth>so even tertiary industries in the chain?
15:27<andythenorth>or just produce / accept?
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the same thing as "go to the industry chain display", "select ore", "show on map"
15:27<andythenorth>but directly from minimap?
15:27<andythenorth>makes sense
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15:28<andythenorth>basically cargo filter for industry view
15:29<@peter1138>why is there no "output in binary" in c :S
15:33<@peter1138>oh balls
15:33<@peter1138>not enough bits :p
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15:36<Kjetil>it's called hex
15:36<@peter1138>what is?
15:36<Kjetil>binary output :P
15:36<@peter1138>no, that's hex output
15:37<Kjetil>binary is just unpractical
15:37<@peter1138>no it's not
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15:37<Kjetil>much nicer with encoded groups of 4 bits <3
15:37<@peter1138>in this case my bit-stuffing is not nibble-aligned
15:37<@peter1138>and can't be
15:38*andythenorth is short a few $
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>oh... now there's a "football war" in egypt...
15:40-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>it would be an immediate candidate for "un-word of the year"
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15:44<andythenorth>need to check more cargos :P
15:45-!-drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
15:46<andythenorth>come to see us
15:46<andythenorth>been a while
15:47*andythenorth didn't think of something
15:47<drac_boy>what you doing anyway?
15:47<andythenorth>"to double production deliver {SIGNED_WORD} [amount required cargos] within three months (or {SIGNED_WORD} [amount required cargos] for quadruple production)"
15:48<andythenorth>[amount required cargos] <- there may be three
15:48<andythenorth>or less
15:48<andythenorth>and I need the units :(
15:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause you had some recursive function to do this?
15:48<drac_boy>heh still coding like crazy hm?
15:48<andythenorth>cargos vary depending on the economy
15:49<andythenorth>even if this can be figured out the result will be horrible to read
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: cargolists? can you do those by newgrf strings?
15:49<andythenorth>"deliver {SIGNED_WORD} units of required cargo"
15:50<andythenorth>it's just ugly I think
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well you have a string for "units of cargo" for each cargo, so just push that string on the stack?
15:51<andythenorth>"deliver 56,000l of petrol or 56t of food or 56 crates of goods, or combinations thereof"
15:51<andythenorth>or something
15:51<@peter1138>or maybw {CARGO_SHORT}
15:51<andythenorth>it's basically ugly to explain how this works
15:51<@peter1138>or {CARGO_LONG}
15:51<@peter1138>param 1 = cargo type
15:51<@peter1138>param 2 = count
15:51<frosch123>newgrfs do not have such string codes
15:51<andythenorth>and does it make sense anyway?
15:52<@peter1138>they can't use them? hmm
15:52<frosch123>it would need cargo translation and such fancy stuff
15:52<frosch123>so, likely not easy to add at all
15:52<andythenorth>'deliver at least 56 units of cargo' ?
15:52<frosch123>also, i don't get the usecase :)=
15:52<andythenorth>it's an industry with production boost
15:52<frosch123>industries usually know what they produce, so they can just write the whole sentence
15:52<andythenorth>but between 1 and 3 input cargos depending on the economy
15:52<frosch123>and don't need to awkwardly use generic substrings
15:53<andythenorth>economies :P
15:53<andythenorth>I can hard code this
15:53<andythenorth>but even then, what would I write?
15:53<@peter1138>frosch123, not sure it would need cargo translation
15:53<andythenorth>input cargos are food (t), goods (crates), petrol (l)
15:53<andythenorth>and you need to deliver 56 units of them in any combination
15:54<andythenorth>smells bad :P
15:54<@peter1138>hmm, depends where the cargo type comes from i suppose. hmm.
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: decide what you want to write, then figure out how to code it, not the other way around
15:54<frosch123>at least you have "19 Print unsigned word as short volume" and "1A Print unsigned word as short weight"
15:54<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's what I'm doing
15:54<@peter1138>andythenorth, anyway, those {CARGO_*} codes exist, but apparently you can't use them :p
15:54<frosch123>hmm, though i guess imperial also uses litres?
15:55<frosch123>also in ottd?
15:55<@peter1138>maybe? dunno
15:55<Supercheese>Seems to always be liters
15:55<@peter1138>no such thing as a liter
15:55<Supercheese>My OTTD says there is
15:55<@peter1138>your ottd lies
15:55<Supercheese>"117,000 liters of oil"
15:55<@peter1138>it's litres, silly
15:55<andythenorth>I'm going to say 'units'
15:56<Supercheese>litres <- spellchecker underlines that as not-a-word
15:56<andythenorth>derp, I'll probably regret it
15:56<andythenorth>you're a player: how many units is 15,000l ?
15:57<andythenorth>right, but this is the basic economy for basic people
15:57<andythenorth>so I think it's 15,000 units
15:57<@peter1138>sounds like a gamescript
15:57<andythenorth>one way to find out
15:57<andythenorth>ship it :P
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the graph window says "x units or x.000 lit(er|re)s"
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16:03<andythenorth>oh :) thanks :)
16:05<andythenorth>here's current text
16:05<andythenorth>viable? Or not?
16:05<andythenorth>might be crappy gameplay anyway
16:06<andythenorth>I should test
16:06<Supercheese>Input/output cargos are random? semi-random?
16:06<andythenorth>deterministic per economy
16:06<andythenorth>if I want to vary them, I'll add multiple port industries with different names I think
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd make a separate line for "quadruple"
16:09<andythenorth>"For quadruple production deliver 224 units of cargo within three months"
16:10<andythenorth>too many words?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>should be fine
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16:10<Eddi|zuHause>have you thought about time-based increase of cargo yet?
16:11<andythenorth>thought about it
16:11<andythenorth>think it's a good idea
16:11<andythenorth>haven't figure out hth I'd do it yet
16:15<frosch123>you should make the numbers yellow
16:15<andythenorth>tried some stuff like that before
16:15<frosch123>maybe also the double and quadruple
16:15<andythenorth>if you make everything stand out...nothing stands out
16:15<oskari89>Andythenorth: FISH needs to have a Titanic-class ship
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well, just check the date in the monthly production change callback, plus some random delay
16:16<Rubidium>andythenorth: to get rid of excess cargo/passengers
16:16<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: sounds sane
16:16<frosch123> <- well, i like making the important stuff stick out
16:16<oskari89>Because i have a docks with 7000+ passengers waiting or so
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: CETS has some random delay for the colour change, but it might not be properly tested yet
16:16<frosch123>everyone knows the text after the third time
16:16<frosch123>but the numbers vary
16:16<frosch123>but well, if your numbers are fixed and do not vary, ofc it does not need sticking out either
16:17<andythenorth>yes :)
16:18<@peter1138>can i have a 35 bit integer please?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in case of growing economy, also the booster requirements should grow
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16:19<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: maybe
16:19<andythenorth>I've been tweaking them based on gameplay
16:19<andythenorth>it's important that they don't consume all the cargo on the map
16:19<@peter1138>silly ships
16:19<@peter1138>Age: 123 years
16:19<andythenorth>but more production = more requirement
16:19<@peter1138>Last service: 19th Nov 1916 (currently it's 2040)
16:20<@peter1138>Reliability: 81%
16:20<andythenorth>paddle steamers :)
16:20<andythenorth>or not?
16:20<andythenorth>last forever :P
16:21<Supercheese>must be powered by batteries
16:21<Supercheese>specifically Energizers :P
16:22<andythenorth>the port won't work on maps with no water
16:22<andythenorth>should I care?
16:22<@peter1138>try making a map with no water
16:22<@peter1138>(without using the scenario editor)
16:23<andythenorth>0% -> 1%
16:24<andythenorth>problem solved then
16:24<andythenorth>now just need some graphics and placement rules and crap
16:28<Supercheese>graphics, always the hardest part :S
16:58<@Terkhen>good night
17:00<Supercheese>Nice graphic, did you just put that together?
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17:02<Supercheese>port mockup
17:02<andythenorth>Dan did that
17:02<andythenorth>a while ago
17:02<andythenorth>building on coasts is a PITA :P
17:07<@peter1138>if i ignore the LSB
17:07<@peter1138>then i can fit 24 pits into 21
17:07<@peter1138>no, 24 bits into 21
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17:09<andythenorth>bed innit
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17:10<Supercheese>Wah, NML throwing weird error
17:10<Supercheese>Let's see what nonsense I coded to cause it
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17:14<@peter1138>yay for bitstuffing!
17:14<@peter1138>3 bits of flags
17:15<@peter1138>21 bits of RGB
17:15<@peter1138>8 bits of colour index
17:16<@peter1138>althogh now i think of it i could've just made it a 4 bit company index and looked up the 24 rgb from there
17:16<@peter1138>never mind eh
17:19<Supercheese>Ah, I was missing a .wave file
17:19<Supercheese>the NML error indicated nothing of the sort :S
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>should probably report that
17:29<Supercheese>Well, the error was in an #included file
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>what does that have to do with anything?
17:30<Supercheese>Yeah, good point
17:41<__ln__>does anyone know why the city of the publisher of a textbook is such an important piece of information in academic bibliographies? especially how hard a detail that is to figure out sometimes.
17:41<Supercheese>no idea
17:42<__ln__>*especially +considering
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18:06<Pikka>winds light to variable
18:06<Pikka>earthquakes in east acton
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>i fear his madness has taken over completely
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18:34<@peter1138>"can't remove part of station: there is no station here"
18:34<@peter1138>there's just a vehicle on it :p
18:34<Pikka>station? what station?
18:34<Pikka>this? this is a branston pickle sandwich.
18:35<Supercheese>Oh wow
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18:38<Supercheese>"Fixed an issue where fires created by Unicorns reignite repeatedly after being extinguished."
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18:39<Supercheese>"Cats will no longer autonomously run through walls or full length windows as though they were doors ."
18:39<Supercheese>"Toddlers can no longer get fleas ."
18:39<Supercheese>How did that post miss those?
18:44<@peter1138>LRLR or LLRR?
18:48<@peter1138>and which is which anyway? :p
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18:59<Supercheese>Hmm, maybe I should just release an early, "alpha"-ish version of my object set
18:59<Supercheese>I have far too many ideas I want to include in it that won't happen quickly :S
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19:19<Supercheese>Hmm, where do I find a list of all groundsprites...
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19:22<Supercheese>Sprite aligner might have those
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause>the opengfx repo?
19:29<Supercheese>sprite aligner had them
19:30<Supercheese>I only needed the numbers
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19:35<Supercheese>Blarg, I need to make my objects snow- and desert-aware T_T
19:36<Pikka>it's getting a bit wooly out there
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19:37<Supercheese>Is it just me, or do the OGFX+ landscape Wind Turbines freeze on one frame?
19:37<Pikka>none of the weather stations are reporting much rainfall
19:37<Pikka>because it's all coming in sideways
19:38<Pikka>87km/h at cape moreton
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19:40<Pikka>snow and desert aware is for chumps
19:41<Supercheese>I guess I can just pass the spritelayout the tile_type in an argument
19:41<Supercheese>hopefully make it simple
19:42<oftcrash>So I'm trying to make Mars more productive rather than just laying about the solar system, but I'm struggling a bit with industry definition
19:43<oftcrash>how are the input_multiplier_x fields used?
19:43<oftcrash>sorry - in NML
19:43<oftcrash>and then I'm also in dire need of some schooling around callbacks
19:44<Supercheese>Hmm, I dunno, I'd say look at another NML grf
19:44<Supercheese>FIRS has like, 4 layers of abstraction, though
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19:44<oftcrash>I'm trying to make an industry dependent on incoming cargo. It uses the "produce_cargo_arrival" callback
19:44<oftcrash>Yeah, I've been trying to work my way through FIRS
19:45<oftcrash>its a challenge
19:45<Supercheese>blah, I need the processed NML output, this python wizardry is intense
19:46<Supercheese>Looks like every FIRS industry has [0,0] for input_multiplier_x
19:47<oftcrash>I tried to work with the build scripts on openttdcoop - they are very thorough, but I ended up rolling my own instead. Need to learn Python anyway.
19:47<Supercheese>(that link is the processed NML, much easier to read)
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19:47<oftcrash>Yeah, I saw that. I can't tell if its because its something they don't need, or they do something fancy someplace else so that isn't needed
19:49<Supercheese>looks like everything is handled in produce blocks
19:56<oftcrash>There's a lot more going on in those than is in the wiki :)
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20:41<Supercheese>It seems there's a 99% chance "@seen Pikka" will end up with "Pikka: hmm" :P
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>@seen pokka
20:42<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: pokka was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 8 hours, 34 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Pokka> if not more
20:43<Supercheese>Yeah, snow- and desert-awareness was easier than I thought
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21:05<Supercheese>Uh oh, more Simuscape drama
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21:26<Flygon>Apperantly a car that could go 130km/h flat-out was considered fast in Australia, in the 60s... gah. Europe's been kicking our arse since the 30s @_@
21:27<Flygon>Oh, wait, 50s, derp
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21:44<Eddi|zuHause>even in the late 30s there were cars that could go 160 on a regular basis
21:44<Eddi|zuHause>they were mighty expensive, though
21:46<Flygon>Eddi: Here, well... nothing really went that fast. Barring airplanes.
21:46<Flygon>There is that one steam locomotive class from New South Wales, but that barely prodded 160...
21:47<Eddi|zuHause>we had scheduled steam trains running at that speed
21:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, one... :p
21:53<Flygon>Eddi: Ah. Here... well, we tended to have scedules that were slower than the trains
21:53<Flygon>But even when the paper recorders ran out of paper, the trains rarely got to actually show their full force (lest conspicuousness show)
21:54<Flygon>eg. the S-class here reached 140km/h, and the driver and fireman only went slower because they didn't want to look any faster than 20 minutes ahead of schedule
21:54<Flygon>Nominal line speed was between 80 to 130
21:55<Flygon>Frustratingly, even more advanced VR engines have been restored... and restricted to 80 due to beaurocratic mess
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 27 00:00:22 2013