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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-28

---Logopened Mon Jan 28 00:00:23 2013
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00:10<Flygon>Wow
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00:21<kamnet>Good morning to anybody who might be awake.
00:22<kamnet>*yawns*
00:26<Flygon>Menta
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01:55<@peter1138>moo
01:59<Supercheese>baa
01:59<Supercheese>alternatively: Masters of Orion?
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02:22<andythenorth>Pikka ponk
02:22<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corus_Trojan_locomotive
02:22<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSB_Di8
02:22<Pikka>don't they
02:22<andythenorth>yup
02:23<Pikka>Top speed 24 km/h (15 mph)
02:23<Pikka>yay
02:23<andythenorth>he
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02:23<andythenorth>replaces the gronk?
02:23<andythenorth>:P
02:24<andythenorth>I might draw them for add on set
02:24<andythenorth>and cheat the stats
02:24<Pikka>Di 8, another non-UK loading gauge loco not used on the mainline \o/
02:24<andythenorth>yes :)
02:24<Pikka>may as well add an SW1200 while we're at it
02:24<andythenorth>'industrial trackage'
02:24<andythenorth>:P
02:24<andythenorth>sw1001
02:24<Pikka>or whichever one it was
02:25<andythenorth>just forbid bridges
02:25<andythenorth>and stations
02:26<andythenorth>and tunnels
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02:28<Pikka>yes
02:28<Pikka>that will be a useful train, that can't use stations :)
02:28<andythenorth>limit it to hauling these http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7184/7138223775_b4b608970f_z.jpg
02:29<andythenorth>it's hard to tell on irc, but you give me the impression that this is not idea of the century for you? o_O
02:29<Pikka>:O
02:30<Pikka>also, amazingly, scuddles trains are not jammed
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02:30<andythenorth>they're all very sensible
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02:34<andythenorth>if I draw diagonal canals, can we have diagonal canals?
02:34<Supercheese>You've heard my proposal for that :P
02:41<@peter1138>i did half-rivers once
02:42<andythenorth>could you manage it again?
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02:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24946 trunk/src/lang/english_AU.txt (2013-01-28 07:58:49 UTC)
02:58<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5393]: Australians aren't snakesssss
02:59<@peter1138>or maybe they are
02:59<@peter1138>are you a snake?
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03:06<Supercheese>Aussssstrailian railwayssssss
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03:16<Supercheese>good night
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03:16<__ln__>for some values of night
03:17-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
03:17<@peter1138>indeed
03:19-!-Kimmey [d9c73688@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
03:21<Kimmey>how do we config the sea in the dedicated serv?
03:22<@peter1138>quantity_sea_lakes
03:22<@peter1138>and custom_sea_level
03:23<Kimmey>to 0 ?
03:23<@peter1138>hnm?
03:24<Kimmey>custom sea_lvl to 0 ?
03:24<@peter1138>depends how much sea you want
03:24<Kimmey>i want dont want so mutch -.-
03:25<@peter1138>custom_sea_level is only used if quantity_sea_lakes is 4
03:25<@peter1138>(which corresponds to Custom in the UI)
03:25<@peter1138>custom_sea_level minimum is 1
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03:29<Kimmey>thx i got it :D
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03:35<@peter1138>hmm ships take ages to accelerate to 180mph :p
03:35<@peter1138>never mind that ships use knots
03:36<V453000>180mph ships? :D
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03:39<@peter1138>water speed record is... 317 mph, heh
03:39<@peter1138>hmm
03:39<@peter1138>the water speed record has an 85% fatality rate... scary
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03:48<Eddi|zuHause>don't do that then :p
03:49<@peter1138>yeah good idea
03:51<Celestar>damn I sometimes hate mailing lists
03:52<Celestar>Q: "How do I do <action> on an ext4 file system?" -- A: "I think you should use XFS, it's a better file system"
03:52<@peter1138>haha
03:52<__ln__>would it feel better on a web-based forum?
03:52<Celestar>not much >P
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03:59<Flygon>Gah, my trains are stupid
03:59<Flygon>I tell them to autoreplace
03:59<Flygon>COMPLETELY ignore depots
03:59<Flygon>I got plenty of cahs...
03:59<Flygon>cash*
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04:45<@peter1138>hmm
04:49<@planetmaker>moin
04:49<@planetmaker>Flygon, trains will ignore depots, if you have an explicit service order in their orders list
04:49<Flygon>Explicit service order?
04:49<Flygon>None of those
04:49<@planetmaker>for if no servicing is needed for breakdown reasons
04:50<@planetmaker>i.e. "no breakdowns" and "no servicing, if no breakdowns"
04:50<Flygon>As it turns out, the signals were confusing the pathfinder
04:50<Flygon>Kept on putting Pass-from-behind signals in front of depots
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04:57<@peter1138>ooookay
04:57<@peter1138>raid controller is throwing up errors
04:57<@peter1138>raid controller manager says all drives are okay
04:58<@peter1138>(0x04:0x0023): Sector repair completed: port=1, LBA=0x2139E1
04:58<@peter1138>quite a lot of them
04:58<Flygon>Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
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04:58<@peter1138>controller has a spare drive available but it's not using it
05:00<@peter1138>i can get a smart dump but it's just hex output, not parsed
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05:09<NGC3982>Morning.
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05:25<@peter1138>http://git.fuzzle.org/openttd.git/commit/?h=servint&id=f8534f6ff83360b4e2881f6077b5e29fdb1def30
05:25<@peter1138>don't really like that change tbh
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05:59<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/sUetsMd.png
06:00<NGC3982>I can't get that train to go anywhere
06:00<NGC3982>The train just before it just drove out and ..worked.
06:00<NGC3982>wat!
06:00<NGC3982>It crached
06:00<NGC3982>In the depot :O
06:01<andythenorth>hax
06:01<NGC3982>For some reasons, two trains was in that depot
06:02<NGC3982>Since two of my trains crached when i ignored the signal on the one i found in there.
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06:05<@peter1138>crashed!
06:05<@peter1138>would you believe it can't pass a one-way signal?
06:05<@peter1138>hmm oh right it faces the other way
06:05<@peter1138>why would you put that signal there though?
06:05<NGC3982>Of course it wont, but since parts (all of it) is still in the depot, shouldn't i see two trains in there?
06:06<NGC3982>It will*.
06:06<@peter1138>not in the screenshot,no
06:06<NGC3982>For esthetics.
06:07<@peter1138>to stop vehicles using it?
06:11<NGC3982>I put it there since it looks goods. I did not realize that would make trains non-visible in depot, while traveling from it.
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>there is a train that already left the depot, it won't show in the depot
06:12<NGC3982>Why? When i do it manually on other depots (without the signal), it shows as green in the depot until it no longer reserves the track tile.
06:12<NGC3982>Uhm, hold on.
06:12<NGC3982>Wait, ignore that.
06:13<NGC3982>Yes, i understand why this happends now.
06:13*NGC3982 removes the signals.
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07:58<@peter1138>uh oh, a greenlight suggestions
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09:19<@peter1138>TRAVESTY
09:21<andythenorth>yes
09:25<@Belugas>hello
09:25<@Belugas>toot toot concept????
09:25<@peter1138>it's serious
09:25-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
09:25<@peter1138>the coffee machine has died
09:29<andythenorth>terrible
09:29<@Belugas>ho fuck.. that is a tragedy!
09:31*NGC3982 measures Peter's width and height for funeral purposes.
09:34<@peter1138>6'6
09:34<@peter1138>for both :p
09:35<NGC3982>:D
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09:50<@Belugas>so for now on, call him Mister peter1138!
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09:57<Flygon>peter1138: Just an inch away from being a Flygon!
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10:03<@peter1138>hmm
10:03<@peter1138>anything else i can fix?
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10:05<andythenorth>is the coffee machine fixed?
10:05<@peter1138>no
10:06<@peter1138>internal fuse blown i assume
10:06<Flygon>It's a coffee machine from 1880
10:07<Flygon>It's powered by coal
10:07<Flygon>No fuses D:
10:08<NGC3982>I hate myself.
10:08<@peter1138>so do we
10:08<NGC3982>"Replace vehicles" and "Send to depot" seems to be very close to one another.
10:08<NGC3982>peter1138: Oh you.
10:08<@peter1138>you're welcome :D
10:09<V453000>:D
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10:17<FLHerne>Is there a reason why the bomb tool removes all rail tiles of a station?
10:17<@peter1138>because you're destroying the station
10:17<Eddi|zuHause2>the bomb tool removes everything on every tile (that can be bombed)
10:17<@peter1138>if you want to remove bits of it just use the bulldozer tool
10:18<FLHerne>The equivalent doesn't happen for road stations, and in my experience doesn't seem to be intended behaviour that often :P
10:18<Eddi|zuHause2>the bomb tool also destroys the road on a road station. the bulldozer tool doesn't
10:18-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
10:18<FLHerne>peter1138: In that case, shouldn't using the bomb on a road station remove all road stations?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>i guess that is "inherited behaviour" from before non-uniform stations was introduced
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>FLHerne: just hit the undo knob if that happens :p
10:20<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Did anyone invent one?
10:20*FLHerne could use an undo knob :D
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's called autosave
10:21<@peter1138>hehe
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10:21<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Hah, true. Done that a few times, normally when I manage to kill >5000 people in a rail crash :-/
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10:22<FLHerne>Double-deck carriages, long trains and playing at midnight don't do my casualty figures any good :-/
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10:27<@peter1138>o_O
10:41<@peter1138>yay bowie
10:45<@peter1138># but this feels so unnatural, peter gabriel too
10:45<@peter1138>hmm
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11:04<__ln__>http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/how-newegg-crushed-the-shopping-cart-patent-and-saved-online-retail/
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11:26<@peter1138>BUT I'M A SUBSTITUTE FOR ANOTHER GUY
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11:34<@peter1138>so quiet
11:35<Rubidium>oh, I thought you were the substitute for the guy that always talks ;)
11:36<andythenorth>WHAT YOU MEAN ME
11:37<__ln__>there can be only one
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11:45<V453000>:D
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11:57*peter1138 ponders doing that dependent engines thing
11:57<@peter1138>if (x is activated) activate y
11:58<andythenorth>pikka asked for roadtypes
11:58<andythenorth>but they smell
11:58<andythenorth>I wouldn't even like them
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: so, the article starts ok, but the "interview" on the second page has a lot of noisy bullshit...
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: all in all, i'm really glad the EU threw out "software patents"
12:05<__ln__>for the time being at least
12:06<andythenorth>now what
12:06*andythenorth wonders
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder if you can troll patent trolls by trying to reimplement the patents they file. if you don't succeed, the patent would be invalid
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12:53<andythenorth>hm
12:53<@peter1138>hm
12:53<andythenorth>yes
12:53<@peter1138>no
12:54<andythenorth>well that makes my life easier
12:54<@peter1138>ok
12:54<andythenorth>I won't then
12:55<andythenorth>need industry window text that varies according to economy parameter
12:55<andythenorth>probly a switch will do it :P
12:55<andythenorth>that's like a varaction 2 in old money
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12:59<frosch123>hmm, i wonder whether asking your gf to translate for ottd works out
12:59<MNIM>inly in return for favours
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13:01<@Terkhen>hello
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13:11<@peter1138>hmm, chips
13:11<@peter1138>fish & chips
13:11-!-Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:12<andythenorth>hot dog
13:12<andythenorth>jumping frog
13:15<@peter1138>is CHIPS an initialism?
13:16<andythenorth>ish
13:17<@peter1138>CHIPS Has Improved Player's Stations
13:17<@peter1138>I see
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13:19<@peter1138>can i steal some graphics?
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13:26<George>Hello. Is there anybody here who can help whith AI question
13:26<George>wiki says, that property 18 is not used by OpenTTDs NoAI API.
13:27<George>How should the train inform AI that this engine is not designed to be used by AI?
13:27<@planetmaker>not at all
13:27<@planetmaker>and hi George
13:28<George>previously setting prop 18 to 0 solved the problem
13:28<@planetmaker>AIs are supposed to have access to everything. So that (mis)feature is not available
13:29<George>how to tell the AI that CHS7 should be used only by buying 2 engines for one consist
13:29<George>or should not be used
13:29<George>at all
13:29<@planetmaker>you cannot
13:29<George>and what to do&
13:29<@planetmaker>And tbh, it's a rule a human won't obey necessarily either
13:29<George>?
13:30<@planetmaker>make an articulated consist and enforce it
13:30<andythenorth>hmm
13:30<George>unfortunately it is possible to buy more of them
13:30<andythenorth>switches can be wrapped in in if {}
13:30<George>but at leas 2
13:30<andythenorth>?
13:31<@planetmaker>I don't get that condition, George
13:31<@planetmaker>I don't understand
13:31<George>a human would get error message when trying to start consist
13:31<@planetmaker>As player I could also buy the engine once, twice, three times... ?
13:31<@planetmaker>the AI would get that, too
13:31<George>you can
13:32<George>but you need to connect at least 2 to run the consist
13:32<@peter1138>// warning about grfcodec/nforenum are fucking retarded
13:32<@peter1138>lol
13:32<@peter1138>andythenorth checks his patches ;)
13:32<@peter1138>hmm, actually maybe not
13:32<@peter1138>that's my repo :p
13:32<@planetmaker>George, but... then you should make it an articulated vehicle which... requires itself 2x ?
13:32<andythenorth>ho
13:33<George>planetmaker: no
13:33<George>you can buy 3 parts
13:33<@planetmaker>articulation with refit option would solve it easily
13:33<@planetmaker>and error-free
13:33<@planetmaker>also nicer for user, imho
13:33<George>if I make it articulated from 2 parts it would be impossible to use 3. Only and 4
13:33<George>2 and 4
13:33<@planetmaker>than consists which are broken when not rule XY is followed
13:34<@planetmaker>just one vehicle. with refits to 2 3 or 4 parts
13:34<@planetmaker>ask andy how he treats his trams :-)
13:34<andythenorth>I hate them :P
13:34<andythenorth>stupid refits :)
13:34<andythenorth>there has to be a better way
13:34<George>It is not possible to change the price on refit (buy or sell the part)
13:35<andythenorth>can set a refit cost
13:35<@planetmaker>of course refit cost can vary...
13:35<andythenorth>I think it's signed
13:35<George>also it would not be possible to change the number of parts in a later years when you can't buy a new one
13:35<@planetmaker>refit would still work
13:36<George>in case they are parts you can assembly 2 3-part trains form 3 2-part trains
13:36<@planetmaker>your suggested solution has the backdraw you mention. Refit not
13:36<@peter1138>drawback :0
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13:37<andythenorth>new industry idea: oyster pearl farm
13:38<@planetmaker>cool. +1 @ andythenorth
13:38<George>it is not a backdraw. It is intended behaviour, that is imposible with refit
13:38<George>because in case of refit you would get 3 3part trains
13:38<George>while it should be impossible, because it is not produced
13:39<@planetmaker>well. You can do as you want and likely screw AIs :-)
13:39<George>but back to the origin
13:39<George>How to make AI not mistaken?
13:40<George>at least make it not to buy such "tricky" trains?
13:40<@planetmaker>use sensible rules. And not rules which even a human needs time to figure out by trial and error
13:40<@planetmaker>that's all the humans do. And that's all the AIs can do
13:40<andythenorth>hrm
13:40<andythenorth>I need a switch to do a thing
13:40<andythenorth>planetmaker you want to get some FIRS commits under your belt?
13:40*andythenorth has pseudo-flu
13:40<Zuu>George: Make things that can be easily figured out without having access to a readme or text descriptions
13:41<@planetmaker>in principle yes. But not today... I'm off to bed soon... getting rid of nasty cold
13:41<andythenorth>herp
13:41<George>planetmaker: i would not change the rule. It is historical. My uestion is how to help the AI
13:41<@planetmaker>what would you have me do, andythenorth ?
13:41<@planetmaker>George, Zuu gave you the answer
13:41<andythenorth>trying to vary a string according to parameter
13:41<andythenorth>I'll figure it out
13:41<andythenorth>I am +1 to bed :P
13:42<andythenorth>but there will be a baby in it
13:42<@planetmaker>make and use rules which one can figure out w/o reading anything
13:42<George>planetmaker: Zuu answered not to my question
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13:42<@planetmaker>uhm, he did?
13:43<George>I do not ask how to make the set that easy that the AI could use it
13:43<Zuu><George> How to make AI not mistaken? <--- I tried to answer this question
13:44<@planetmaker>or is "use easy to-figure-out-rules" no acceptable?
13:44<George>I asked how to make AI work with the designed rules
13:44<andythenorth>if I draw diagonal canals, would someone consider coding them?
13:44<Zuu>http://noai.openttd.org/api/1.2.3/classAIEngine.html <--- these are the engine properties that are available to AIs
13:44<andythenorth>I am bored of canals being on a grid :P
13:44<andythenorth>of limited angles
13:44-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:44<andythenorth>more angles!
13:44<andythenorth>angles++
13:45<George>planetmaker: > or is "use easy to-figure-out-rules" no acceptable? Of cause not!
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24947 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-01-28 18:45:21 UTC)
13:45-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<George>Rules are alredy designed
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 3 changes by AtomD
13:45<@DorpsGek>bulgarian - 16 changes by pdedinski
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 39 changes by oklmernok
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 229 changes by Aknuth
13:45<__ln__>talking about porn dvds or what?
13:45<George>based on the railway history
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13:46<George>now I want to make AI work. At least not do mistakes
13:46<Wolf01>o/
13:47<frosch123>George: for ais the same rules apply as for humans
13:48<Zuu>George: Each AI have their own code which uses a the NoAI API. Either you make the engines or wagons that you want that AIs should avoid, look to bad to be a sensible selection or you need to change every AI.
13:48<frosch123>if the start/stop check rejects certain compositions
13:48<frosch123>it will also do so for ais
13:48<George>Yes, it does
13:49<George>But how would AI know that it should use two locomotives to start?
13:50<George>Or some more tricky rule?
13:50<Zuu>If you want to make a sound contribution to AIs, you could make a library that abstracts train composing with respect to all existing and future NewGRFs. I'm sure many AI authors would love a such library.
13:51<George>I supposed it would be possible to say "this vehicle is too tricky for AI" (prop 18=0), but looks like this solution is ruined
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13:51<frosch123>the ai will notice itself what engine are too tricky
13:51<George>How?
13:51<frosch123>how could a newgrf make assumptions about what the ai is capable of
13:52<frosch123>it will notice that the train cannot be started
13:52<frosch123>just the same like every player who did not read the manual
13:52<Zuu>Information that is hidden in vehicle callbacks are usually hidden to AIs when they select engines. The ai have to build an engine and using the vehicle that get created to try out what works and not.
13:52<frosch123>they will damn the trainset, sell the train and go for road vehicles :p
13:52<George>Not the GRF, but the GRF coder. By setting prop 18 for example
13:54<George>frosch123: Do I undestand it right, that the train GRF coder should not think about AI? It is the AI's coder question to discover problems with the engine and stop using it?
13:56<frosch123>yes, no
13:56<frosch123>the ai coder has to code the ai in a way that it notices that the engines do not work as expected
13:56<George>No?
13:56<George>And what would it do in that case?
13:56<frosch123>you asked two questions, i gave you two answers
13:57<frosch123>that's up to the ai
13:57<frosch123>likely it will sell the engine and try a different one
13:57<George>I see.
13:57<George>Is there any AI coders here?
13:57<Zuu><-- one
13:58<George>What does your AI do when it can't start a train?
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13:58<Zuu>Although I haven't made any work with trains. One reason for that is actually the engine + wagon compose hell. :-)
13:58<Zuu>Another is that I have simply not have time to get there, keeping myself busy with RVs + aircraft + other projects
13:59<George>Ok, when you would start working with trains please contakt me - I'll inform you about a real hell :)
14:00<George>may be then we would find what to do with xUSSR train set tarin combination rules :)
14:00<Kimmey>hello
14:02<George>Is there any AI coders here who have coded train support?
14:02<Kimmey>need some help 2 u :s
14:02<Zuu>Maybe NewGRFs should be allowed to define consists which would appear in the buy menu. Basically a template for a full train. If a consist can have a length parameter to vary # of wagons, then there will not be 10k different consists :-)
14:02<Kimmey>from*
14:03<andythenorth>views
14:03<George>Zuu - that would be good
14:03<andythenorth>that might be a perversion of views
14:03<andythenorth>hmm
14:03<Kimmey>to make an dedicaded serv:)
14:04<Zuu>Kimmey:
14:04<Zuu>@get 3
14:04<@DorpsGek>Zuu: Don't ask to ask, just ask
14:04<andythenorth>FIRS needs a load of translation updates
14:04<andythenorth>if anyone's interested
14:05<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2081/
14:05<andythenorth>might release 0.9 soon
14:06<Zuu>Kimmey: Also, unless its a server for eg. your friends to play at, there are already quite many servers online. But maybe you have specific plans that none of the existing servers live up to?
14:06<Kimmey>can anyone help me?
14:06<Zuu>Kimmey: It's easier if you ask your question rather than asking if you can ask it
14:07<Kimmey>i lunched openttd.exe -D
14:08<Kimmey>and i want to advertise the server
14:09<Zuu>Since you are on Windows, you can start openttd.exe without "-D", configure it and then close OpenTTD. After that you can start it with -D.
14:09<Zuu>This way you have access to graphical configuration which might be of help for you.
14:09<Kimmey>just re install ?
14:10<Zuu>No nead to re-install OpenTTD.
14:10<Kimmey>where are u from?
14:10<Kimmey>kk
14:11<Kimmey>i only go and openttd.exe and settings?
14:12<Zuu>openttd.exe -> Flera spelare (Eng: multiplayer) -> Starta server. For "Anslutning", select "Lan/Internet".
14:12<Zuu>Assuming you run openttd in Swedish.
14:13<Kimmey>jeg er norsk
14:14<Zuu>Do you use nynorsk or bokmål?
14:15<Zuu>Fleirspiler -> Start jener -> Forbindelse -> Lan/Internett.
14:16<andythenorth>in a string(FOO, string(BLAH)) can I instead reference a switch identifier to get the substring?
14:16<andythenorth>string(FOO, switch_id)?
14:16<Zuu>After having set this, you might need to configure your firewall and/or router. Otherwise incomming traffic to your server may not be able to reach you.
14:17<Zuu>@ports
14:17<@DorpsGek>Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:17<Zuu>Make sure TCP and UDP is forwarded/enabled for port 3979 and 3978.
14:18<Zuu>With some delay (up to some 5-15 minutes or so), you can use our server list on the website to confirm when you have succeded: http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
14:22<Kimmey>so i have to go to the router and write in 3979 and 3978 ?
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14:25<andythenorth>anyone know where string() is documented for nml
14:26<andythenorth>newgrf wiki search produces 26 resuls, none seem to be what I want
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14:36<andythenorth>ugh
14:36<andythenorth>simplest things can be most work
14:36<andythenorth>simply changing a string means recoding every industry :P
14:36<andythenorth>lolwut?
14:36<andythenorth>yes
14:38<Supercheese>string theory again, eh? ;)
14:48<@peter1138>i give up
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14:50<@peter1138>eh
14:50<@peter1138>decode chips
14:50<@peter1138>some sprites are in dos palette, some are in windows palette... o_O
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14:53<andythenorth>eh?
14:53<andythenorth>did I do that? :P
14:53<@peter1138>dunno
14:53<andythenorth>I switched to dos last year or so
14:53<Supercheese>So, hmm, some folks have Bananas questions, regarding if/when information is uploaded to Bananas
14:54<andythenorth>I thought I batch converted
14:54<Supercheese>I'd conjecture the only time stuff uploaded to Bananas servers when the client says "I want to download this thingy here"
14:54<Supercheese>stuff is*
14:54<@peter1138>a request is not exactly an upload
14:54<Supercheese>The rest of the communication is just downloading info from Bananas and comparing that to the local stuff on disk, yes?
14:55<andythenorth>you mean 'phone home' stuff?
14:55<Supercheese>Right, "request" being a pseudo-upload
14:55<Supercheese>packets sent
14:55<andythenorth>it'll be a POST or something
14:55<andythenorth>or GET
14:55*andythenorth guesses
14:55<andythenorth>it'll send some vars about what it wants
14:55<andythenorth>and some control info
14:55<Supercheese>what about information about what the client already has, that's all controlled locally right?
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14:56<frosch123>the client does not tell the server what it has
14:56<andythenorth>if we had that info, we'd make charts :)
14:56<Supercheese>thanks frosch
14:56<frosch123>the server just sends the ids and md5sum of everything it likes to offer the client
14:56<Supercheese>exactly what I expected, yeah
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15:00<andythenorth>I swear new FIRS is broken someway that I haven't spotted :P
15:00<andythenorth>but anyway, it's on bananasasa
15:00<andythenorth>test for yourselves :P
15:00<Supercheese>:)
15:01<andythenorth>supply requirements are smaller for primary industries
15:01<andythenorth>as in all my games, all metal / wood / petrol production goes back to make supplies
15:01<Supercheese>didja add a parameter for that or not?
15:01<andythenorth>nope
15:01<Supercheese>k
15:01<andythenorth>and farms were really hard
15:01<andythenorth>so they're eased further
15:01<andythenorth>also there's a Port industry
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15:02<andythenorth>^ Flherne hates FIRS
15:02<andythenorth>he's gone off in a huff
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15:06<NGC3982>FIRS is my primary way of playing OpenTTD.
15:06<NGC3982>Tis' be neat.
15:09<@peter1138>Supercheese, was it simuscape people asking? :p
15:09<Supercheese>yeap
15:09<@peter1138>how *did* i guess
15:10<Supercheese>It seems like it should be obvious no information is sent to the Bananas servers... but I guess it isn't
15:11<@peter1138>yeah well, there is a caveat
15:11<@peter1138>if you run a server, clients query it to get the newgrf list
15:12<frosch123>maybe they are confusing bananas with the master server
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15:13<@peter1138>if you run a public server, that is queried by the master server
15:13<@peter1138>but that's only a newgrf list of files that are in use
15:14<frosch123>Supercheese: the masterserver collects a list of all grfs and their names which have ever been used on a public server http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/newgrf.html
15:15<Rubidium>... to fill http://www.openttd.org/en/servers (which lists the used NewGRFs)
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15:20<Supercheese>Ok, quoted the relevant lines above, hopefully that'll sort out the Simuscape-folk questions
15:21<Supercheese>Andy: "Change: plural forms in NML are now decimal like in OpenTTD lang files. Adopt the Slovakian lang file accordingly"
15:22<Supercheese>should that be "adapt"...?
15:22<Supercheese>or am I reading that wrong?
15:23<andythenorth>dunno
15:23<andythenorth>not my commit :)
15:23<andythenorth>probably though
15:24<Supercheese>very minor detail
15:29<andythenorth>someone test the port?
15:29<andythenorth>I haven't actually used it in a game
15:29<Supercheese>Basic Arctic only eh?
15:29<andythenorth>yup
15:29<@peter1138>nobody tests stuff
15:29<andythenorth>I used to :P
15:29<andythenorth>now I just copy working code from elsewhere :P
15:29<andythenorth>cargo cult
15:29<Supercheese>Damnit andy
15:29<Supercheese>now I have to redo the parameters
15:30<andythenorth>yes of course
15:30<andythenorth>you can't just change them on a running game o_O
15:30<Supercheese>at least "Favorable" is spelled correctly now :P
15:30<andythenorth>oic
15:30<andythenorth>translations
15:30<andythenorth>languages are a mess right now
15:30<Supercheese>languages are always a mess
15:30<Supercheese>since Babel :P
15:31<andythenorth>post changes on a ticket, I'll commit
15:31<andythenorth>it needs a 0.9.1 release for lang stuff soon
15:31<andythenorth>Terkhen: ^ :)
15:32<Supercheese>Sheesh, 5 industries are yellow on the minimap
15:32<Supercheese>Brewery, Grocery Store, Hotel, Oil Refinery, and Port
15:32<andythenorth>he
15:32<andythenorth>most of those are near town too
15:33<andythenorth>there's only a couple viable colours in town
15:33<andythenorth>white and yellow
15:33<andythenorth>port could be some other colour
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15:34<Supercheese>Huh, Goods only come from Paper Mills in Arctic Basic
15:35<@Terkhen>andythenorth: did you change many strings? if it requires checking many changes I won't be able to look into it for two or three days
15:36<andythenorth>just one I think
15:36<andythenorth>Supercheese: it's Basic :P
15:37<Supercheese>Ports love to spawn in small lakes :P
15:37<Supercheese>only 2 of 6 have a connection to map edge (256x512 map)
15:38<Supercheese>of course there's not much of a way to check for that connection via grf, methinks
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15:42<andythenorth>I can think of ways
15:42<andythenorth>but they're ugly
15:42<andythenorth>like walk tiles outwards in a spiral
15:42<andythenorth>it would be nice to have a var during tile checks
15:43<andythenorth>measure water body size / measure minimum distance to map edge (pathfinder)
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15:57<@Terkhen>andythenorth: more like 31 :P
15:57<andythenorth>oh
15:57<andythenorth>I misread the output :(
15:57<andythenorth>sorry
15:57<@Terkhen>I wonder how you manage to make so many changes between versions
15:58<@Terkhen>I'll try to do it tomorrow
15:59*peter1138 blinks as this TTO game
15:59<@peter1138>apparently contains a steep slope :p
16:00<@peter1138>i mean a steep slope shore tile
16:02<@peter1138>MP_WATER at level 9?
16:02<@peter1138>in TTO?
16:03<Supercheese>hax
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16:15<Kimmey>Sooo, what's up?
16:15<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fs5207.png
16:16<frosch123>be carefule
16:16<frosch123>looks like it might turn into a block hole
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16:20<@peter1138>yeh
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16:22<NGC3982>What on earth is that.
16:22<NGC3982>Did Kimmey leave?
16:23<NGC3982>He keeps sending me huge amounts of PM.
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16:27<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/jnKbPEu.jpg
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16:35<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: an easy way to find out whether someone is still here is to try to tab-complete his nickname
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: that image doesn't load
16:36<frosch123>it's no jpg
16:36<frosch123>it's a gif
16:36<frosch123>some douchbag saved it and your browser fails for it
16:36<NGC3982>Yes, but i was un-aware of him changing his nickname or not. Circumstances make me ignore everything that is not user text on IRC.
16:36<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/jnKbPEu.gif
16:36<NGC3982>Does that work better?
16:37<NGC3982>I have no idea why the user that sent me it used .jpg.
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:37<andythenorth>was it worth it?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>clearly he ran the stop sign
16:40<NGC3982>It was quiet a ruckus about it.
16:40<Zuu>NGC3982: Kimmey PMed me
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>nobody PMs me :/
16:41<NGC3982>How resilient.
16:41<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: actually, he didn't, his tracks were still for quite some time
16:42<MNIM>but steel tracks get hot when running.
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>"Burglars tried to break into the Berlin police's office for break-in protection, but failed at the break-in protection"
16:43<MNIM>which turns a really grippy, big hunk of steel into a really slippy big hunk of steal still going the same speed
16:43<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Break-in-ception!
16:43<MNIM>*steel
16:44<andythenorth>hot loses grip? :o
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>"Around 60% of the world's Top 1000 music videos on youtube are blocked in germany"
16:45<NGC3982>Copyright poop.
16:45<NGC3982>Or wait. What?
16:46<andythenorth>I think in my next MP game, my castle will look like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Naarden_kl.JPG
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>"around 19% are blocked in any country other than germany"
16:46<andythenorth>but we need diagonal canals for that ^
16:46<@peter1138>yeah, that grey tile is allegedly at height 3
16:46<@peter1138>not height 0
16:46<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: What is the main reasons?
16:46<NGC3982>Are*
16:47-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: german's monopoly music copy right agency "GEMA" had a trial program allowing youtube to show the videos for a small royalty fee, that trial ran out in 2009 and the negotiations for a followup treaty went nowhere
16:48<NGC3982>A small royalty fee, to who?
16:48<NGC3982>The american record companies?
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>to the GEMA, which has some kind of key who to give the money to
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. X% go to international artists, Y% to domestic artists and Z% to publishers
16:49<NGC3982>I fail to see how allowing it will not make more net profit for Germany.
16:49<NGC3982>But then, i do not know of the details.
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>they demanded something like 1¢ per view, which google/youtube found excessive
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16:49<NGC3982>It is.
16:49<NGC3982>Very.
16:50<NGC3982>It sounds very ..sad, for you.
16:50<NGC3982>It almost sound stubborn.
16:50<NGC3982>Just doing it because they can, and soforth.
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, and since then things escalated...
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>and now you can't view any music on youtube...
16:56<frosch123>NGC3982: they are doing it only to support the pirate party
16:56<Rubidium>so what can you see?
16:57<frosch123>everything which is not trendy
16:57<frosch123>so, actually it might be for the better :p
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>everything that does not have music of the last 70 years
16:58<frosch123>there is no problem in finding non-popular music
16:58<frosch123>(non main-stream)
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>well it gave a great push for the gema-free music scene :)
16:59<Rubidium>gema free?
16:59<Rubidium>how can that be?
16:59<frosch123>you can explicitly deny them to represent you
16:59<Rubidium>doesn't gema get royalties for all and every "artist"?
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: well, the composer can decide to not join the GEMA
16:59<frosch123>but everyone who uses the stuff has to proof that the author denied them
17:00<+michi_cc>Of course it's all or nothing though, either everything of you is GEMA or nothing.
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the GEMA's position is "we assume we own the rights to this title until you prove otherwise" [so-called "GEMA-Vermutung"]
17:00<frosch123>gema is no must, it's just that the assumptions when there is no proof are towards gema
17:02<@peter1138>i vote for closing that bu
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>also intereting in this context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOmUvUcH5Wk [german]
17:02<@peter1138>*bug
17:02<@peter1138>fs#5207
17:02<Rubidium>http://www.gva.be/nieuws/media-en-cultuur/aid1012176/ken-wood-en-suzy-wan-dan-toch-echte-artiesten.aspx <- they should try that in Germany; I guess the result will be the same
17:02<@peter1138>savegame is corrupt afaict
17:04<frosch123>peter1138: i think we fix various ttd bugs when loading saves, but if there is no way to fix it, well, close it :)
17:04<@peter1138>i can work around m5 being wrong
17:04<Rubidium>they went to the supermarket and bought some stuff, made up songs and then they had to pay royalties for something that doesn't even exist
17:04<@peter1138>but if heights are wrong then something else is broken
17:04<@peter1138>(and that's probably the reason for m5 being wrong too)
17:05<@peter1138>apparently it worked in 1.1.5... heh
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, that's certainly possible. the GEMA doesn't check whether a title is in their posession, because they don't have to.
17:06<frosch123>peter1138: yes, we added more assertions; that's the reason why we fix ttd games at all :p
17:06<frosch123>but yeah, if the heights are wrong, then there is very likely something very wrong
17:07<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so how do they know the right person gets paid?
17:08<Rubidium>or is it like here, i.e. they never paid authors/producers because they can't figure out a way to determine it?
17:08-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>they don't... because the calculation of the distribution key is not public, nobody can say anything against it
17:09<frosch123>i think the only thing they have to publish is how much they keep for themself :p
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>and to become "full member" of the GEMA to influence this key calculation, you need to earn a lot of money in royalty fees the first place
17:10<frosch123>so, yeah, it pretty much screams for corruption :p
17:11<@Terkhen>good night
17:20<Wolf01>'night
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17:21<NGC3982>What a boring situation.
17:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r24948 trunk/src/road_gui.cpp (2013-01-28 22:21:29 UTC)
17:21<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Do not assume CA_BUS and CA_TRUCK to be equal, instead let the compiler optimize the code if that is the case. (ComLock)
17:22<NGC3982>Taking a shot in the dark and trying to make it not so sad, i can happily announce that i have just seen Seven of Nine for the first time, in Voyager.
17:23<NGC3982>It's like tits with robot stuff on it.
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>that's a fairly accurate and comprehensive description :p
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>she has meanwhile played in other series as well, e.g. Leverage
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>with less... cleavage :p
17:26<NGC3982>I have no idea what that is
17:26*NGC3982 googles.
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually quite fun
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>with lots of star trek references in it (but none of them involving seven of nine. she only has a recurring guest role there)
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17:36<frosch123>night
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17:38<Supercheese>A pre-emptive warning, I think there will still be Simuscape-folk questions about OTTD & the online content
17:39<Supercheese>someone will probably email or PM a dev with many questions in the near future
17:39<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Ooh.
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17:48<LordAro>"
17:48<LordAro>==25359== ERROR SUMMARY: 2449611 errors from 16 contexts (suppressed: 4 from 4)"
17:48<LordAro>woops...
17:48<Supercheese>That... is not a small number
17:50<LordAro>indeed not
17:50<LordAro>i blame a misunderstanding about when i have to free/delete memory :L
17:54<LordAro>also, i suspect i have managed to corrupt some system memory - i'm getting some strange errors from bash...
17:57<+glx>LordAro: impossible
17:58<LordAro>i'd have thought so, but i've never seen errors like "sh: 0: getcwd() failed: No such file or directory" before... :L
18:00<Supercheese>Hmm, is there any way for a .grf to get onto http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/newgrf.html other than it being used on a public server?
18:01<Supercheese>or uploaded to Bananas I guess
18:02<+glx>this list is made from advertised servers
18:03<Supercheese>So I'd expect the list to contain an grf IFF it was at some point used on a public server... hmm
18:03<Supercheese>a grf*
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>does this list even get updated?
18:08<Supercheese>Dang, that is a long list
18:09<Supercheese>Haha, there's like a hundred entries of Long Vehicles
18:09<Supercheese>even more for ECSes
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 29 00:00:25 2013