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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-01-30

---Logopened Wed Jan 30 00:00:26 2013
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03:01<Flygon_> Something tells me my trams aren't coping
03:01-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
03:03<__ln__>Megacity One
03:07<Supercheese>Flygon: you need [Fake] Subways :D
03:08<Flygon>Supercheese: They don't work well in Winter set graphics D:
03:08<Flygon>At least, last I used
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03:14<Supercheese>How so?
03:14<Flygon>Palette cycling errors
03:14<Supercheese>the subways?
03:14<Flygon>But, this was over 6 months agpo
03:15<Supercheese>I don't see any
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05:35-!-Netsplit <-> quits: @Belugas, Zeknurn`
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05:37-!-Netsplit <-> quits: heffer, avdg, Rubidium, doki_pen, Tvel, xQR, OwenS, Stimrol, @orudge, CornishPasty, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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05:40-!-Netsplit <-> quits: KouDy, KenjiE20|SSH, Rhamphoryncus_, Flygon, dihedral, neli, St3f, EyeMWing, George|2
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05:41<andythenorth>it's a flash mob
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05:41<Pikka>not that flash, tbh
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05:42<@peter1138>oh you
05:42<@peter1138>is it me or are stations horrible to code?
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05:43<andythenorth>I outsourced mine
05:43<andythenorth>the spec is batshit
05:43<andythenorth>and I'm not very clever
05:43<@peter1138>and even that needed fixing :)
05:44<@peter1138>and it uses GRM
05:44<@peter1138>hmm, advanced sprite layout still not documented
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05:45<peter1139>oh really
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05:51<peter1138>hmm, advanced layout with bit 6 set, maybe?
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 30 05:56:14 2013
---Logopened Wed Jan 30 05:57:04 2013
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05:57-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 86 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 81 normal]
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06:05<peter1138>think that'd end up drawing too many sprites though
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06:33<peter1138>there's no special code for that, it's all shared
06:34<Pikka>doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work :)
06:36<peter1138>do you have other vehicles loaded?
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06:37<peter1138>engine aging stops at 2050
06:37<peter1138>until other vehicles are introduced after that date
06:37<Pikka>I see
06:37-!-SoulOfTheInternet is now known as ToBeFree
06:37<Pikka>other vehicles of the same type?
06:37<Pikka>or any other vehicles?
06:37<andythenorth>unlol, that's a good feature
06:37<peter1138>any other vehicles
06:37*andythenorth should think before typing
06:38<Pikka>it should probably be documented in the newgrf spec and/or removed as a terrible idea
06:38<peter1138>it's related to having very long games
06:38<peter1138>if it didn't stop you'd have no engines come the year 2500
06:38<Pikka>only if you're using the default vehicles
06:39<Pikka>but anyway, problem solved :) thankyou
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08:18<Flygon>I find that offensive!
08:22<oskari89> Anyone intrested?
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08:59<Flygon>Y'know, I'm surprised a Telecommunications Tycoon never happened
08:59<Flygon>Just like OpenTTD, but with no vehicles :B
09:01<@peter1138>so nothing like openttd then
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09:08<Flygon>Well, there could be vehicles
09:08<Flygon>Telegram vehicles :P
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09:29<dihedral>hello sir belugas
09:30<@Belugas>hey dihedral!
09:30*dihedral pets the animal
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09:34<@Belugas>which one? the cow or the whale??
09:37*peter1138 tries to work out what layouts he needs
09:51*Belugas gets some more coffee
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11:28*Belugas gets some more coffee. Again
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11:47<andythenorth>someone unplugged the coffee machine in the office
11:47<andythenorth>to plug in the george foreman
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12:12<supermop>apple has my air
12:12<supermop>waiting for new ssd
12:12<andythenorth>stupid apples
12:12<andythenorth>and their stupid ssds
12:12<andythenorth>I hate them
12:12<@peter1138>i almost got an ssd
12:13<andythenorth>I have an ssd
12:13<@peter1138>faster innit
12:13<andythenorth>also mean time to failure is ~6 months
12:13<andythenorth>according to someone on the internet
12:13<andythenorth>their job is to fix laptops
12:13<@peter1138>depends how you use it
12:14<@peter1138>i would only've put the os on it
12:14<@peter1138>no data
12:14<andythenorth>and recently they have had to fix a lot of ssds
12:14<supermop>my vaio's ssd is 3 years old
12:14<andythenorth>so they concluded that ssds break a lot
12:14<@peter1138>i deduced that people hate large maps
12:14<@peter1138>so i might restart a smaller a game
12:14<andythenorth>or people have jobs :P
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>who gets such stupid ideas? :P
12:15<@peter1138>also maybe CC fences
12:15*andythenorth has jobs
12:16<@peter1138>hmm, chips disables poles?
12:16<@peter1138>or poles aren't in stations?
12:16<@peter1138>catenary poles
12:17<andythenorth>sure that got fixed
12:17<andythenorth>I have some recollection of a bug about it
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>flying catenary... makes things much easier
12:17<@peter1138>i've got a line wire suspended in air
12:17<@peter1138>gravity loses
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>funnily, without gravity, it wouldn't be a catenary :=
12:18<andythenorth>only this
12:18<andythenorth>nothing about poles
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>there are separate flags for drawing the catenary and drawing the poles, i think
12:19<@peter1138>but you set them to disable drawing, iirc
12:19<andythenorth>raise a bug
12:19<@peter1138>no as a flag
12:19<@peter1138>if it's not set then it'll draw everything
12:20<@peter1138>i think
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12:33<@peter1138>mmm pixels
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12:33<@peter1138>so that rail flag that makes railtype authors draw 63 sprites...?
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: plus a 40+ variable that gives you x%2 + y%2 << 1 so you can vary the 3rd rail for left/right side and stuff
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>same way as catenary
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12:39<@peter1138>yet again
12:39<@peter1138>some other random suggestion
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just saying this would be a use-case
12:43<@peter1138>that's like
12:44<@peter1138>"oh hey, let's have cargo dest" "plus infrastructure sharing"
12:44<@peter1138>yeah, graet, but 2 separate things
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12:47<frosch123>at least he did not say "daylength"
12:47<andythenorth>diagonal stations
12:47<@peter1138>andythenorth, got a patch for that
12:47<andythenorth>and some way to show the terrain tile
12:48<andythenorth>and non-track-tile-stations-have-road-bits
12:48<andythenorth>no I have nothing else :P
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13:00<@peter1138>make -j 98 == bad
13:00<+glx>not if you have enough cores :)
13:00<@peter1138>not quite :)
13:00<@peter1138>i used to have problems compiling ardour
13:01<@peter1138>waf defaulted to -j 4
13:01<@peter1138>but at some point in the compilation the gcc process took 1GB+ ram
13:01<@peter1138>i "only" had 2GB ram...
13:01<+glx>so heavy swaping
13:01<@peter1138>pikka, make a test grf!
13:02<andythenorth>how many cores is needed for -j 98 to be good?
13:02<@peter1138>48 should be sufficient
13:02<+glx>a lot :)
13:02<@peter1138>but you need a bit of ram too
13:02<andythenorth>I think 32 would be ok
13:03<andythenorth>32 cores are available
13:04<@peter1138>andythenorth, 64 cortes
13:04<@peter1138>AMD Opteron 6276 sixteen-core 2.3GHz cpu
13:04<@peter1138>in a quad cpu box
13:04<andythenorth>more like $9,000 to spec
13:04<@peter1138>probably the "mere" eight-core 3GHz cpus would be better though
13:05<andythenorth>that stuff won't fit in my laptop either
13:05<@peter1138>£6000 for 64 cores
13:05<andythenorth>how do these big towers fit on your lap?
13:05<@peter1138>(inc vat)
13:05<@peter1138>that's just a 2U machine
13:05<andythenorth>peter1138: let's get two
13:05<andythenorth>still cheaper than a mac
13:05<@peter1138>ah but it'll need more ram
13:05<@peter1138>probably ... 1TB ram?
13:06<andythenorth>512Gb should do
13:06<@peter1138>hmm, that brings it up to £34000
13:06<@peter1138>oh, 512 is more reasonable. £14000
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>640k ought to be enough for everybody!!
13:06<andythenorth>256GB should do
13:06<@peter1138>but you probably need fast disks to keep up
13:06<andythenorth>I use -j13 with 4 cores / 16GB
13:06<andythenorth>I'm just multiplying out
13:07<@peter1138>more disks == more platters == faster == another few grand
13:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: unrelated but
13:07<andythenorth>peter1138: you'd want SSDs buffering
13:07<andythenorth>but then writing to spinning glass
13:09<andythenorth>did pikka reply btw?
13:16<andythenorth>I'm shocked
13:21<@Belugas>ADN HD
13:21<@Belugas>when they'll be sold...
13:21<@Belugas>or DNA for english speakers..
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>real people call it DNS
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24949 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-01-30 18:45:16 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 1 changes by lugo
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese - 117 changes by Aknuth
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
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14:05<andythenorth>'download all'
14:05<andythenorth>and why not eh?
14:05<Supercheese>Startup times would be enormous
14:05<Supercheese>Scanning 9,001 grfs...
14:05<andythenorth>maybe the newgrf config panel should be live from bananas
14:06<andythenorth>and you can choose grfs, then they're downloaded
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14:06<andythenorth>or that could be crap
14:06<andythenorth>I think iTunes should have a 'buy all' button
14:06<andythenorth>just in case
14:06<Supercheese>I just went and cleaned out unused/outdated grfs to hopefully help startup times
14:07<@peter1138>me too
14:07<@peter1138>screw faffing around trying to cache it
14:09<Supercheese>Seems I'll have to set the intro date for the Wright Flyer a bit early, else the OTTD randomization might push it off to 1905
14:09<Supercheese>Realism be damned, eh
14:11*Rubidium_ would be interested to know the name, GRF ID and MD5 checksum of the remaining (at least) 6321 GRFs Supercheese has more than the master server knows about
14:11*Supercheese was being silly
14:11-!-Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
14:12<@peter1138>Rubidium, surely his computer will have uploaded them to bananas
14:12<andythenorth>screw roadtypes, drive anywhere
14:12<andythenorth>wrong link :m
14:13<andythenorth>road bits on every tile
14:13<andythenorth>even water
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14:15<Wolf01>hi o/
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15:00<Wolf01>hello Alberth
15:01<@Alberth>hello :)
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15:20<@peter1138>damn, so much bitstuffing with conditional orders
15:20-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20<@peter1138>i know the gui->command needs to bitstuff
15:20<@peter1138>but really
15:22<frosch123>maybe encode commands into xml :p
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15:22<Eddi|zuHause>and have javascript decode it on the other end? :p
15:23<@Alberth>and then compress it to reduce space
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15:33<@peter1138>nothing wrong with the commands
15:33<@peter1138>but... order_base.h?
15:33<@peter1138>bearing in mind what frosch123 said about my service interval patch :p
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15:34<frosch123>ah, you want to turn Order into a baseclass and make the various order types derived classes? :)
15:34<frosch123>sounds like a plan :p
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15:34<@peter1138>not order types
15:34<@peter1138>but conditions, at least
15:34<@peter1138>but it's a mess
15:35<Rubidium>thank you ;)
15:35<@peter1138>stuffed into a fake order
15:35<@peter1138>i suppose it saves space :)
15:35<@peter1138>but i got told off for that :p
15:35<@peter1138>not exactly heh
15:36<Rubidium>I guess it has to do with saving every order in the same size chunk or so (and sending it over the network within a small enough size for restoring orders)
15:36<@peter1138>yeah, but that's the commands
15:37<@peter1138>^ latest commit on there is... not nice imho :p
15:38<@peter1138>of course i could used a new var instead of vehicle_flags
15:38<@peter1138>*could have
15:41<Rubidium>I don't have a big problem with adding it there
15:41<@peter1138>to vehicle_flags?
15:42<@peter1138>without that patch it's stored as part of the 32bit service_interval
15:42<Rubidium>hmm... guess I should read the whole thing first
15:42<@peter1138>in fact i missed a place
15:43<@peter1138>ah no
15:44<@peter1138>and then also... rgb company colours for no particular reason
15:46<@peter1138>anyway i'd like to do restrictions without reinventing the order restrictions code
15:46<@peter1138>but i don't think i can because it's packed tightly into the order class
15:47<@peter1138>errr, order conditions code
15:47<Rubidium>so orders still need packing/unpacking? If that's not the case anymore, you could maybe refactor it
15:49<@peter1138>conditional orders are packed in memory
15:49<@peter1138>probably seemed a good idea :)
15:50<Rubidium>I know, but is pack/unpack still used? If pack isn't used anymore, then you are basically free to refactor the class
15:50<Rubidium>otherwise you'd have to write a lot of complicated code in Pack/Unpack to 'undo' the refactoring for sending it over in a command
15:50<@peter1138>yes, pack/unpack is still used
15:52<Rubidium>that sucks
15:53<@peter1138>meh, i think i shuold leave it alone
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16:53<__ln__>curious, polish is the second most spoken language in england and wales.
16:54<frosch123>not welsh?
16:55<__ln__>good question, this new article doesn't mention welsh at all.
16:56<@Alberth>good night
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17:15<@Terkhen>good night
17:16<__ln__>*news article, even
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17:47<Supercheese>Too bad ships can't carry multiple cargo types at once
17:48<Supercheese>that'd be really hacky anyway
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17:48<@peter1138>why would it be hacky?
17:48<Supercheese>same way planes are hacky
17:48<Supercheese>"shadow" carrying cargo?
17:48<Supercheese>IIRC anyway, perhaps that was changed
17:48<@peter1138>it's ingenious
17:49<Supercheese>ships hath not shadows anyway
17:49<@peter1138>invisible parts :p
17:49<Supercheese>articulated ships eh
17:49<frosch123>Supercheese: when we discussed container ships, we considered ignoring the cargo type of the ship, and just load different cargo packets into it
17:49<frosch123>so you do not need multiple parts
17:50<Supercheese>yes, that would be rather different
17:50<frosch123>you can just store the cargotype in the cargopacket, and not bother about the vehicle
17:50<@peter1138>then you notice that cargo packets don't store the type ;)
17:50<Supercheese>minor details :P
17:50<@peter1138>capacities would be interesting
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17:51<Supercheese>capacities for non-pax, non-goods [,non-mail?] are already unified, no?
17:51<Supercheese>same values, just some multiplied by 1,000
17:51<frosch123>there is that capacity muliplier thingie
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17:51<Supercheese>and that
17:52<frosch123>anyway, night
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18:12<Supercheese>Forest->Sawmill->Furniture Factory -- autorefit to Wood, to Lumber, to Goods, profit on every leg of the trip, like a boss
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20:51<evsr8>what grfs are running on server 2 right now?
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23:05<Bad_Brett>what's up?
23:05<Supercheese>Playing OTTD in 1882 atm
23:05<Supercheese>wondering if I should add some patches to the build I'm using...
23:06<Bad_Brett>decisions, decisions...
23:07<Supercheese>Also being lazy and not working on my grfs
23:07<Supercheese>although I should, sometime
23:07<Bad_Brett>yeah you should
23:08<Bad_Brett>want a sneak peek of my latest ...industry? :)
23:10<Supercheese>Industry eh
23:12<Supercheese>Neato, reminds my of Civ3/4
23:12<Supercheese>Whale resources
23:12<Supercheese>reminds me*
23:16<Bad_Brett>it will be one of the early sources for oil production... before oil wells were used
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 31 00:00:27 2013