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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-01

---Logopened Fri Feb 01 00:00:29 2013
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06:08<@peter1138>oh right, convert the game fully to c++
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06:27<@peter1138>best ever
06:32<@peter1138>pikka :D
06:32<Pikka>does it?
06:32<@peter1138>what who
06:36<Pikka>but the real question is
06:36<Pikka>whither coffee icecream?
06:37<@peter1138>so yeah, was that useful to you?
06:38<Pikka>terrifying D;
06:39<@peter1138>hmm, i dunno the order of the sprites off hand :p
06:49<CornishPasty>Combines are evil, kill them with your crowbar!
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06:59<__ln__>i see things in three
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07:02<MNIM>I am terrible.
07:03<MNIM>It's 2030 and Im FINALLY phasing out that steam service to a tourist attraction.
07:05<Pinkbeast>That is terrible - build 5ATs and keep it going
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07:06<MNIM>DB 01s actually
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07:08<MNIM>Don't worry though, Im keeping 'em running
07:09<@peter1138>breakdowns off?
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07:58<Bobjr>I was hoping someone could answer a question of mine regarding valuables?
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08:04<@peter1138>try asking it
08:05<Bobjr>I send a train of valuables in the appropriate train car from one town to the other, both who say they accept valuables
08:05<Bobjr>However there is no profit, and if I force it to unload it just switches valuables
08:05<Bobjr>That is unloads valuables with no profit, then loads new ones without profit
08:05<Bobjr>What gives?
08:06<@peter1138>don't use unload or transfer orders
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08:06<Flygon>MNIM: I've have always preffered a feature that allows you to have no breakdowns, but would increase the cost of maintainence instead ^^
08:07<Bobjr>even without the unload order it just trades valuables for no money
08:08<Pikka>post on the forums with a savegame, bobjr
08:09<Pikka>easier than us trying to crystalball it
08:09<Bobjr>Good point
08:10<Bobjr>Alright thanks, have a good day guys!
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08:11<Pikka>that got rid of him :D
08:13<Flygon>I'd have suggested the use of Dropbox
08:39<MNIM>does anyone know if 2CC E-locs have (reduced) running costs when being towed along a track without power?
08:48<Pinkbeast>I could be wrong but I thought it was only UKRS2 that varied running costs with power output.
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08:51<MNIM>hmmmh, shame.
08:52<MNIM>could've exploited that to turn my slow turbine mountain trains into high speed trains on electrified flat land lines
08:54<Flygon>Can locomotives be towed above max speed?
08:55<MNIM>no, but they're not reaching max speed.
08:56<Markk>Pinkbeast: 2cc does that as well.
08:57<MNIM>oh, cool
08:57<@peter1138>Flygon, locos are never towed
08:58<@peter1138>Flygon, i lied, they're towed if they're unpowered i suppose
08:58<Flygon>Well, yeah
08:58<@peter1138>but still
08:58<Flygon>Can loco's in OpenTTD be towed by a diff loco above max speed?
08:58<Flygon>As per MNIM's suggestion
08:58<Flygon>In my expereince? No.
08:58<Flygon>It'd be a nice feature, though
08:58<@peter1138>because max speed comes from all parts of the train
08:59<Flygon>As in, locos having seperate max self-powered speed, and max towed speed
09:00<Flygon>Anyway, brb
09:00<MNIM>that would only be if the drivetrain has a different max speed from the rolling part and can be decoupled from it
09:01<Pinkbeast>Steam locomotives are usually towed with coupling rods off so that's not totally unprecedented
09:09<MNIM>Hmmmmh, I suppose, but would they have different towed/powered speeds?
09:28<Flygon>Pinkbeast: Yeah, Steam Locomotives were what were specifically in mind
09:29<Flygon>I know that there's quite a few examples being towed faster than it could hope to achieve light engine
09:32<Flygon>Can Electric tractioned locomotives be driven in 'neutral'?
09:34<Pinkbeast>I believe so - diesels are sent to rescue stricken electrics and of course they have to be able to move them
09:35<Sacro>of course they can
09:36<Flygon>Oh, excellent
09:36<Flygon>Then such a feature in OpenTTD isn't entirely unrealistic then, for neither steam, nor diesel, nor electric
09:36<Flygon>Though, somehow removing driving rods @ 96km/h would be a worry :P
09:36<Sacro>I'm not sure towing a steam loco is that simple
09:37<Flygon>Eh, a Steam loco towing a Diesel is simple, though
09:37<Pinkbeast>Sacro: well, taking the coupling rods off is a job for a fitter. It wouldn't be done routinely.
09:37<Flygon>West Coast Railways had Steam Locomotives fitted with DMU controls so that the locomotive could be accelerated far faster, or so that it could be pushed in case of steam locomotive failure
09:38<Flygon>And the Steam loco regularly went over 120km/h, which is over 20km/h faster than the T/P-class Diesels they often used
09:38<Flygon>Though, it was in the OSpeed range of the S and B classes they sometimes used
09:41<Flygon>Pre-WCR days, though, V/Line would just run the R-class steamers solo for crew training (no Diesel), keep in mind, this's the late 80s, early 90s
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10:31<MNIM>there goes my death toll again
10:31<MNIM>916 die in a (slow) collision
10:31<goodger>I do like TTD's magic fireballs
10:32<TinoDidriksen>TTD: Hollywood Edition
10:32<MNIM>so it seems
10:35<Flygon>MNIM: I once rear ended a woman below 5km/h. She charged me for her headlights.
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10:37<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: you realize that fraud is a serious crime?
10:38<Flygon>Eddi: It wasn't the only seemingly frivirlous thing that she charged $1300 for
10:38<Flygon>But it didn't occour to us at the time that we could sue her
10:38<Flygon>Only damage I saw was some dints on her rear bumper
10:38<Flygon>If anything, my car got the worst damage. Some paint scraped off it.
10:39<Flygon>If she was driving a Magna, like I was, she'd have been smart enough to just not give a $*(@ and drive off @_@
10:39<Flygon>Magna's: Australia's disposable car
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12:02<NGC3982>In ~/.openttd, i have several configs i have named openttd_config1/2/3, and so on.
12:02<NGC3982>If i start a game with openttd -D -c <path+filename> it (as it should starts the game with the cfg file.
12:02<NGC3982>If i then shut the game down, and start it again with a new <path+filename>, it writes the data from the old config file onto the new one.
12:03<@peter1138>that sentence is broken
12:03<NGC3982>Oh, yes.
12:03<NGC3982>Bah, i shouldn't do this right now. I'm so tired and i have the most massive of headaches
12:03<NGC3982>Never mind.
12:04<@peter1138>but it won't be overwriting configs like that
12:04<NGC3982>It does something.
12:05<NGC3982>Ill retry it step by step
12:05<NGC3982>After i have calmed down a bit.
12:06<@peter1138>if you start a game with -c blah it'll only ever overwrite that file
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12:13<NGC3982>Let's see then.
12:18<NGC3982>I copy the new file to ~/.openttd. I view it with nano, at it seems correct. I start the game with openttd -D -c <path+file>, i enter the game on my windows computer. i notice that no grfs are loaded, but the dedicated server window does not give any indication of error.
12:19<NGC3982>I then close the server and open the very same config file with nano, at it has been over-written with the original openttd.cfg content.
12:19<NGC3982>If that is what's going to happend, i have for missjudged the man or something.
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12:20<NGC3982>My next experiment will be to remove all cfg files, add only one, and try again.
12:20<ni291187>what is this
12:20<ni291187>wheree am i
12:20<Pinkbeast>NGC: add all config files to version control now
12:20<ni291187>are you guys open ttd junkies
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12:21<NGC3982>Pinkbeast: That subversion thingy?
12:21<Pinkbeast>Whatever your preferred VCS is.
12:22<NGC3982>Well, i have no idea, and i have never heard of it before. I found it on the site just now. Ill read trough it.
12:22<Pinkbeast>Oh, god, you're a Windows user?
12:22<Pinkbeast>Er well write a batch file that copies all your config files somewhere or something.
12:23<NGC3982>Normally, yes. I have just started using Debian as my server system.
12:23<Pinkbeast>Didn't take my advice, huh?
12:23<NGC3982>Well, heh.
12:23<NGC3982>Actually, most people i talked to prefered Debian over Ubuntu. Though, i guess you are correct in that Ubuntu might be a better choise for beginners like me.
12:24<MNIM>Try Mint instead
12:24<Pinkbeast>I prefer Debian for me, but then I have been a Unix sysadmin for a wee while.
12:24<MNIM>it's like Ubuntu, except not sucky.
12:24<NGC3982>I will not change operating system just like that.
12:24<NGC3982>That's asking for trouble.
12:24<MNIM>Muh. Ubuntu to mint shouldn't be too hard.
12:25<MNIM>I've done it once.
12:25<NGC3982>That is not important when i have just learned using the basics of this operating system :)
12:26<NGC3982>But yes, i will consider it if this doesn't work out.
12:28<@peter1138>NGC3982, stick with it. it honestly won't be any better with a different distribution
12:28<NGC3982>Yes, i guess so.
12:28<@peter1138>they all have their quirks, people recommend whichever because they're used to the quirks and they don't realise they're quirky
12:29<NGC3982>Let's see. I have removed all of the config files and added an original openttd.cfg (with a NewGRF list).
12:29<NGC3982>peter1138: That sounds logical.
12:30<@peter1138>and the stuff you're dealing with now isn't anything distro specific anyway
12:30<NGC3982>Hm, allright. It started the server (with no error message) with no NewGRF's. Time to investigate the config file.
12:30<NGC3982>..And it replaced it
12:30<NGC3982>With a non-existant file.
12:31<@peter1138>openttd removes the lines from the config cos they didn't exist
12:31<NGC3982>Where "non-existant" is the file i removed just before starting the server.
12:31<@peter1138>it's kinda annoying
12:31<NGC3982>Uhm, ok
12:31<@peter1138>basically they're not loaded
12:31<NGC3982>But no, it did -add- the stuff from the old config file
12:31<@peter1138>when you exit it saves the config as it is
12:32<@peter1138>but because they're weren't loaded, they're not in memory, therefore they're not saved
12:32<Pinkbeast>NGC: of course this stuff about quirks is not why I recommended to you what I did.
12:32<NGC3982>Pinkbeast: I understand that. :)
12:32<NGC3982>I need to pastebin this process.
12:32<@peter1138>vcs *is* a good idea for configs
12:32<@peter1138>that's why openttd should use .config
12:33<@peter1138>so we can just have .config in vcs
12:33<Pinkbeast>And for any file that some helpful program might blow away under your feet
12:33<@peter1138>and /etc of course
12:33<@peter1138>Pinkbeast, do you vcs your whole system? :D
12:33<NGC3982>Well, shouldnt i first make sure that the error isnt user-made?
12:33*NGC3982 puts the entire story in a pastebin
12:34<Pinkbeast>Not yet.
12:34<Pinkbeast>Also here I'm on a snapshotting filesystem which makes one _ever_ so lazy
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12:45<NGC3982>Here is the full scenario.
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12:52<NGC3982>Bah, i have no idea on what's going on anymore.
12:53<Pinkbeast>I'm afraid I am not qualified to help you with this.
12:54<NGC3982>But VCS is ..something that can?
12:54<NGC3982>It looks like a bug report system
12:54<NGC3982>I'm actually not sure if it's a bug, or if i'm just wrong.
12:54<@Alberth>vcs keeps track of all versions of files you ever gave it to it
12:54<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
12:55<@Alberth>and you can give a message with each change, which is usually a line "I changed this and this because ..."
12:56*NGC3982 tries.
12:56<@Alberth>and later you can look back at how you changed exactly what when,and why
12:58<@Alberth>so it takes away the boring administration of which versions you exactly have
12:59<@Alberth>and of course you can go back to a previous version, make a copy, revert back to it, etc etc
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13:00<NGC3982>I see.
13:01<NGC3982>I do not understand this. Removing Openttd with apt-get remove (openttd and openttd-data) doesn't remove anything.
13:03<@Alberth>are the files owned by the package manager?
13:04<@Alberth>(I don't run debian, so I don't know details here)
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13:04<NGC3982>they are owned by a user, and i removed them with sudo.
13:10<NGC3982>I removed the entire .openttd folder and re-installed it
13:10<NGC3982>Of course, that did not work
13:10<NGC3982>I'm seriosly only making it worse
13:16<@Alberth>perhaps you should explain what you're aiming for :)
13:17<NGC3982>I fixed it.
13:17<NGC3982>At least this error.
13:18<NGC3982>I couldn't remove it, so i rm-rf:d it, installed the wrong version with apt-get, removed the wrong version with apt-get (to get the correct lib's so i could:), installed the new version with dpkg.
13:18<NGC3982>So now, i'm at square one, a default OpenTTD install that works.
13:19<@peter1138>packages are never owned or installed as a user
13:19<@peter1138>running openttd as a user will never mess with the installaion
13:19<@peter1138>there is no need to uninstall and reinstall to "fix things"
13:20<@peter1138>so what's the difference between openttd_advertise1.cfg and openttd_UKRS.cfg ?
13:21<Sacro>peter1138: man diff
13:21<NGC3982>peter1138: I wanted to reinstall the game, so i could make sure the problem was not on my side.
13:22<NGC3982>The UKRS config contains two NewGRF files, and Advertise1 contains a 20-ish.
13:22<Sacro>rm -r ~/.openttd
13:22<NGC3982>Both files are tested in a Windows system, and seems to work there.
13:23<NGC3982>The NewGRF's are the only thing that separate the contents of both files.
13:24<@peter1138>"openttd_UKRS.cfg" does now look exactly like "openttd_advertise1.cfg". It has during the server start/stop been overwritten with the old file.
13:24<@peter1138>that cannot happen
13:25<@peter1138>there game will not have magically loaded a different config file
13:25<@peter1138>and then saved it over the one specified
13:25<NGC3982>Well, it does. I have re-tried this five times, and i will now do it again.
13:26<NGC3982>I'm sure -i- am the problem. It's not like i'm saying OpenTTD is magic.
13:26<NGC3982>But i can't get past it, even when i closely follow my own actions.
13:29<NGC3982>I now tried with two files: openttd.cfg (default) and openttd2.cfg. The only difference was the starting_year. That worked.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24953 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt (2013-02-01 18:45:10 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>tamil - 94 changes by aswn
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13:46<NGC3982>peter1138: Reinstalling OpenTTD makes me unable to re-make the file-writer-issue.
13:46<NGC3982>It does seem to work as it should.
13:46<@peter1138>no, it just means you did something wrong before
13:46<@peter1138>reinstalling openttd installs it exactly as it was installed before
13:46<NGC3982>Yes, i guess so.
13:46<@peter1138>users cannot modify those files
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14:03<NGC3982>Where can i check the status for the Master Server?
14:03<NGC3982>I guess there is none, since i never heard of any problems with it :)
14:04<@Alberth>moin andy
14:08<Supercheese>Andy, any reason the Iron Works was excluded from Temperate Basic? Iron Ore and Wood are both defined in basic...
14:16<andythenorth>Supercheese: because it's Basic?
14:16<Supercheese>Well, true enough
14:17<Supercheese>I liked the Iron Works --> Steel Mill transition as the years progressed
14:17<andythenorth>there might be a case for it, as there is no metal chain before a certain date
14:17<andythenorth>but then again, the Iron Works is nearly pointless imho
14:18<Supercheese>It has pretty graphics :P
14:18<andythenorth>that's why it's included
14:18<andythenorth>I like the iron pigs flowing and cooling
14:18<Supercheese>aye :)
14:18<andythenorth>and I like Dan's building
14:18<andythenorth>the v2.0 thread is a gift that keeps on giving
14:18<andythenorth>"as well as features from TTDP (might as well bring everyone to work on one game)"
14:18<andythenorth>so we'd gain....0 developers?
14:18<Supercheese>Everyone *is* working on one game
14:19<Supercheese>Nobody's TTDPing
14:19<andythenorth>because th CF is broken
14:19<andythenorth>my typing is broken
14:19<andythenorth>I have like 20% accuraacy
14:20<Supercheese>Sometimes it feels like the English language itself has less than 20% accuracy, when following its own "rules" anyway
14:20<Supercheese>i before e, except 50% of the time when it isn't
14:23<andythenorth>MP GS?
14:23<andythenorth>frosch123? ^
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14:25<frosch123>andythenorth: if you prepare the game :p
14:25<andythenorth>then it's my fault :P
14:25<andythenorth>have we got a nightly serverer?
14:25<andythenorth>peter1138 ^ ?
14:26<frosch123>r24876 is running
14:26<frosch123>no idea what's the state of the game there
14:26<andythenorth>k I'll make it with that
14:26<frosch123>wow, that revision is one month old
14:26<andythenorth>Alberth planetmaker Hirundo Terkhen et al playing?
14:27<frosch123>maybe we can recruit planetmaker :)
14:27<@peter1138>sorry busy coding
14:27<@Terkhen>sorry, we are going to have a small celebration soon :P
14:28<andythenorth>if I use UKRS2 will I be moaned at?
14:28<andythenorth>ach, my game, my rules :P
14:28*Terkhen suggests that everyone complains about the NewGRF selection no matter what it is
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14:31<@Alberth>andythenorth: +1
14:31<andythenorth>how many playing? Affects the goal :P
14:31<andythenorth>frosch123: got a record of previous goals?
14:31<frosch123>andythenorth: "+1" wrt the complaining? :p
14:31<andythenorth>yeah, figures
14:31<andythenorth>7 years, NoCarGoal
14:32<andythenorth>no Zuu?
14:32<@Alberth>+1 for playing actually, but you're free to interpret it orherwise ;)
14:32<NGC3982>I guess the solution to "i want to host more servers on one computer" is simply using a new port per server?
14:32*NGC3982 tries.
14:33<frosch123>but why do you want to host multiple servers?
14:33<frosch123>it's not like there are too few
14:33<frosch123>and everyone runs one for himself anyway
14:33<frosch123>or do you want to play on multiple servers in parallel yourself? :)
14:33<@Alberth>he's cold, and needs some work for all those idle CPUs :)
14:34<NGC3982>frosch123: Both!
14:35<NGC3982>It's not that i have something else to do.
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14:46<NGC3982>Aaaand it worked.
14:47<NGC3982>peter1138: I will have to excuse myself. Linux has always been a nail in the eye for me, and i always have a hard time orienting myself within it.
14:47<NGC3982>Your patience has been greatly appreciated.
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14:54<oskari89>Why town-owned road cannot be one-wayed?
14:55<oskari89>And when i click tramway on road-bridge, why the tramway applies from other bridge head only?
14:57<NGC3982>oskari89: On your first question: The town owns the road, and does not want you to change it.
14:58<andythenorth>need more players for this MP game :P
14:58<andythenorth>I set quite a high goal
14:58<NGC3982>What are the stakes?
14:59<Markk>Your soul.
14:59<NGC3982>I'm in.
15:00<Supercheese>Medium rare
15:00<Supercheese>Oh wait, stakes
15:04<NGC3982>Doesn't the parameter numbers for a NewGRF change the "button" parameters?
15:04<NGC3982>Since, this configuration ( shows all the "Provide X" options as red in the actual server game.
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15:08<@planetmaker>hm :-)
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15:12<NGC3982>Here it what it looks like in the actual game.
15:13<Supercheese>That is kinda strange
15:14<NGC3982>And this is how it looks in the NewGRF part of the cfg in use.
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15:16<Supercheese>Lemme see if I can replicate that behavior
15:17<NGC3982>Want me to upload the config?
15:17<NGC3982>The server is at
15:17<Supercheese>Is it only with that .grf?
15:18<NGC3982>As for now, yes. I have not tried any other NewGRF.
15:18<Supercheese>I'm not seeing it here...
15:18<NGC3982>The parameter works for the other server (at with UKRS2.
15:18<NGC3982>And you are using 0.3.0?
15:20<Supercheese>I see your problem
15:20<Supercheese>0 14 0 0 ≠ 0 1 4 0 0
15:21<Supercheese>Note the space, fourteen vs 4 1
15:21<NGC3982>Indeed. It worked out nicely.
15:21<NGC3982>Thank you.
15:21<Supercheese>amazing what one bit of whitespace will do :)
15:21<NGC3982>I can barely see that on this little monitor
15:24<Supercheese>Derp, fourteen vs. 1 4
15:24<Supercheese>Well, you understood me anyway :D
15:24<NGC3982>Yes, i did. :)
15:24<Supercheese>Crazy typo O_o
15:25<NGC3982>I did not even see the typo
15:25<NGC3982>Wich might also explain why i did not see the 14.
15:25<NGC3982>1 4*.
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15:44<luke_>hey ya'll
15:44<luke_>bye everyone
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15:54<@Terkhen>good night
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16:16<@planetmaker>boah, Pikka you really don't want anyone to even find signals on tracks with your finescale tracks, right?
16:19<@peter1138>that's what 2x view is for :p
16:20<@peter1138>i find huge signals ugly as
16:20<@planetmaker>I don't even recognize or see them at 4x°
16:20<@planetmaker>it's a dot in the same shade as the tracks...
16:20<@planetmaker>just faintly different colour
16:20<@planetmaker>with an invisible post...
16:21<@planetmaker>I see the signals somewhat when the backside is visible. But frontisde... no chance
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16:56<ComLock>Any developers here, I need some help with those widgets
17:01<ComLock>I need talk on the dev channel
17:01<ComLock>How can I trigger UpdateWidgetSize
17:02<ComLock>from DrawWidget
17:02<ComLock>or is that bad idea
17:05<@planetmaker>But... DrawWidget doesn't resize anything. It shouldn't
17:06<+michi_cc>planetmaker: Some windows do (well, from OnPaint mostly). It's not the best idea, so avoid it if you can.
17:07<+michi_cc>If you really must, use ReInit() (check IndustryViewWindow::OnPaint).
17:07<@planetmaker>michi_cc, I'm aware, yes. But... as you say :-)
17:07<@planetmaker>it's there rather for hysterical raisons. Rather than sense
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17:08<+michi_cc>In that case it is because it displays arbitrary NewGRF strings that can change each paint.
17:08<ComLock>lets say one has 2 WWT_PANEL in NWID_VERTICAL
17:08<ComLock>the top one is vertically resizeable
17:08<ComLock>the bottom is not
17:08<ComLock>However I calculate the bottom height based on width
17:09<+michi_cc>Do that calculation in OnResize if you can.
17:09<ComLock>So some times I want to manually change the height of the bottom widget, giving/taking height from the upper one
17:10<@planetmaker>why you want to do that?
17:10<+michi_cc>Or via InvalidateWindowData if the size change is triggered by specific events.
17:11<ComLock>but OnResize does not have any arguments (hmm,maybe I don't need them)
17:11<ComLock>I need the width of the widget
17:12<ComLock>I could store it in the window, but I guess it's avail somehow?
17:14<@Alberth>you may want to look at the smallmap legends panel
17:15<@planetmaker>:-) Listen to Alberth. He wrote the widget system
17:15<frosch123>someone else recently played ottd? :p
17:15<@Alberth>planetmaker: like I know anything about it :p
17:15<frosch123>how did you experience the new open-vehicle-gui-on-clone experience?
17:15<frosch123>i am very much pondering just reverting it :p
17:16<@Alberth>FS#4458 has a PM about that I don't understand
17:16<frosch123>it's too hard to clone vehicle multiple times, and i don't think a proper solution for it
17:16<ComLock>Alberth, yes I'm doing the smallmap legend on the industry window:
17:16<frosch123>Alberth: it's about opening the vehicle gui when cloning via the depot button
17:17<frosch123>but not when there is already one clone waiting in the depot
17:17<frosch123>i guess it might be just for using the clone button ni the newly built vehicle gui
17:17<ComLock>Should we not talk in ???
17:18<frosch123>ComLock: only when it is busy here
17:18<andythenorth>frosch123: build one, open window, clone
17:18<andythenorth>I got it straight away tbh
17:18<andythenorth>avoids a billion useless windows
17:18<frosch123>andythenorth: did you use the clone button from depot at some point?
17:18<andythenorth>clone first, open window, clone more
17:18<frosch123>maybe it should open the window when using the depot button
17:18<frosch123>but not when using it from the vehicle gui
17:19<andythenorth>definitely not from vehicle gui
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17:19<frosch123>(when there is already vehicle in the dpot, and you are cloning multiple)
17:19<andythenorth>bear in mind I am ctrl-cloning nearly always
17:19<andythenorth>for shared orders
17:19<andythenorth>so opening windows for me is just boring
17:19<frosch123>i almost never ctrl+cloned today :p
17:20<@Alberth>multiple clones in the depot is complicated, as the 'clone' is not sticking
17:20<frosch123>build one ship, clone it and only replace the loading station order
17:20<frosch123>while keeping the drop-off order
17:20<@Alberth>I do that too :)
17:21<ComLock>michi_cc, I think IndustryViewWindow::OnPaint will help me
17:21<@Alberth>ComLock: how is sort of making a copy of the smallmap legend not working then?
17:21<@Alberth>ComLock: OnPaint sounds too late for sizing imho
17:21<ComLock>Cause the smallmap legend has buttons which sets minimum height
17:22<ComLock>Yes but if i can detect that width has changed, then I can trigger reinit
17:22<@Alberth>no, the heights of the industries legends are used too
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17:22<@Alberth>try loading FIRS with FIRS economy
17:22<ComLock>Only for the fixed rows
17:23<ComLock>I have firs loaded
17:23<andythenorth>frosch123: I didn't look, did you run same kind of boats everywhere, or matched to Fish production?
17:23<frosch123>i build a rather medium sized boat of like 80 tons
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17:24<frosch123>and then varied the amount
17:24<frosch123>the rockall one
17:24<@Alberth>ComLock: I wondered a few times whether the various industries should not have a different colour of text
17:24<andythenorth>Alberth: that might be horrible :)
17:24<andythenorth>contrast wise etc
17:24<frosch123>yeah, text colours are bad :p
17:24<+michi_cc>ComLock: The industry legend data should only change if the industries change (i.e. on NewGRF reload), which can be handled with (On)InvalidateData. The legend itself can also change if the width of the window changes (because the user resized the window) and this case can be handled with OnResize.
17:24<@Alberth>perhaps, but all text the same is not very useful too
17:25<ComLock>Alberth, smallmap seems to work
17:25<frosch123>you can make the legend colour bigger
17:25<ComLock>So I must have borked it along the way :)
17:25<frosch123>and draw the text on top of it
17:25<frosch123>we even have a pick white/black textcolour best matching contrast function
17:25<ComLock>haven't programmed c or c++ in like 10 years, so I'm heavily frustrated
17:25<frosch123>which we use in the staiton list for the cargo labels
17:25<ComLock>Moose in perl is just a dream to work with in comparison
17:26<@Alberth>ComLock: try java for a week, and you'll find c++ heaven :p
17:26<frosch123>but anyway, i don't think colours improve the smallmap
17:26<frosch123>the blink on mouse over is more useful
17:26<frosch123>and icons instead of colours might be cool
17:26<@Alberth>frosch123: I was talking about the text in the industry list
17:26<frosch123>and well, what eddi suggested: supply/demand instead of industry type
17:26<@Alberth> <-- all entries look the same
17:26<frosch123>Alberth: oh, did you see the filter patch then?
17:27<@Alberth>no, ComLock just posted that link
17:27<frosch123> <- i liked that one more actually :p
17:28<frosch123>i don't see any use in using colours in a list :o
17:28<@Alberth>so you can see what block of farms you have, and where the block of iron thingies starts
17:29<frosch123>i also wonder about the "show only non-transported"
17:29<frosch123>to me it feels that should rather be integrated into the "sorting critera"
17:29<frosch123>like "production amount", "transported amount", "untransported amount", "transported percentage"
17:30<frosch123>Alberth: yeah, ok, then a icon in front would be fine
17:30<frosch123>but i don't think it needs a legend
17:30<NGC3982>Don't watch the movie "Flight" while having a whiskey.
17:30<frosch123>every line already says what it is
17:30<@Alberth>2nd or 3rd seems unneeded, but yeah, seems useful to merge "show only non-transported" into the sort criteria
17:31<frosch123>oh, and while we are talking about improving the list... the numbers should be aligned into columns
17:31<frosch123>and without those silly parentheses
17:31<@Alberth>+0.9 :)
17:32<@Alberth>good night
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17:33<frosch123>maybe the "type" thingie should be removed from the sorting criteria
17:34<frosch123>instead there could be a toggle button whether to group same types or mix them
17:34<frosch123>while keeping the selected amount or name criterion
17:36<ComLock>sort and filter are two very different things...
17:38<ComLock>I would also like ability to filter away industries without production
17:38<ComLock>filter is much more effective than sort
17:38<frosch123>ah, yeah, i see; i guess for secondary industries that makes sense
17:39<ComLock>I find that I have not copied enough from smallmap
17:40<ComLock>like SetupSmallestSize and AssignSizePosition
17:40<ComLock>Clock is 23:40 here so bed time
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17:57<@planetmaker>good night
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19:41<Wolf01>nighty night
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 02 00:00:30 2013