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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-05

---Logopened Tue Feb 05 00:00:35 2013
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01:55<@peter1138>oh, i see, building infrastructure is micromanagement...
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02:20<Supercheese>rebuilding* :P
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03:41<Supercheese>Blaaaaah, sandwiched in between two hills, no room to build a ro-ro station
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03:43<MNIM>Room can be a terrible thing, eh?
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03:48<Flygon>Supercheese: Oh goooooooooooood, I hate that
03:48<Flygon>ESPECIALLY when working with towns
03:48<Flygon>I've basically had to build what I consider narrow gauge branchlines...
03:48<Flygon>Pass stations the size of 4 instead of 7
03:49<Supercheese>I ended up bulldozing to BEHIND the steel mill and putting a ro-ro station a dozen tiles farther back
03:50<Supercheese>I'm going to need a lot of throughput, considering these weak 1890s-era locomotives
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03:51<Flygon>Sextuplehead if it's 1845
03:52<Supercheese>Spoilers: Invisible Power Boosting Engine
03:52<Supercheese>although I only use that to climb this one massive hill
03:52<Bonez305>This game will take a bit of getting used to, i suck :/
03:52<Flygon>I just make longer stations, Supercheese
03:53<Flygon>More locomotion, more station, faster loading than having half-a-locomotive peeking out >_>"
03:53<Flygon>The game REALLY needs curved stations
03:53<Supercheese>Flygon: I need to drag 150 tons of food from tileheight 2 to tileheight 6 in a distance of 25 tiles
03:54<Supercheese>with 1890s engines, quadruple-heading might not even work :P
03:54<Flygon>Supercheese: 6 Consolidation Locomotives
03:54<Supercheese>UKRS, not NARS
03:54<Flygon>6 Big Ladies?
03:54<Supercheese>NARS doesn't have autorefit, which is mandatory
03:54<Flygon>Or Long Boiler
03:54<Flygon>Or, whatever
03:54<Flygon>I forgot the high tractive effort one
03:55<Supercheese>Yeah, I don't have that engine yet
03:55<Supercheese>the Garatt, whenever that comes, could probably do it singlehanded
03:55<Supercheese>Garratt*, or however
03:55*Supercheese googles
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03:55<Supercheese>Yeah, my corrected version is right
03:55<Flygon>Is that the 0-6-6-0 one?
03:56<Flygon>1950s iirc
03:56<Supercheese>1927 according to Wikipedia
03:56<Flygon>For UKRS?
03:57<Supercheese>(at least I think that's the UKRS oen)
03:57<Flygon>Lemme boot up my UKRS gam
03:57<andythenorth>Supercheese: ships
03:57<andythenorth>build locks
03:57<Supercheese>4 locks O_o
03:57<Supercheese>Might as well just make a waterfall
03:57<@peter1138>brrrr cold
03:57<Supercheese>run the ships straight up it
03:57<Supercheese>they can do that, right? :P
03:57<Flygon>Oh bugger
03:58<Flygon>They expired
03:58<Flygon>And andy is right
03:58<Supercheese>lemme just check
03:58<Flygon>Ships are right :3
03:58<@peter1138>hepr derp
03:58<Flygon>Just EXPENSIVE
03:58<@peter1138>08:41 < Supercheese> Blaaaaah, sandwiched in between two hills, no room to build a ro-ro station
03:58<Supercheese>Yeah, 1927
03:58<@peter1138>should've just copy & pasted a layout all over it
03:59<Flygon>Supercheese: Ah. The Garrett got overlooked by the 177km/h locos x.x
03:59<Supercheese>Oh, the 0-10-0 big bertha might do the trick too, 1,200 hp and almost 200kN tractive effort
04:00<Flygon>Because nothing is more useful than Triple-heading the Mallard in 1938 just for that tractive 185km/h goodness
04:00<Supercheese>comes a bit earlier in 1919 too
04:00<@peter1138>freight multiplier 1
04:00<@peter1138>no need to worry then :p
04:00<Supercheese>peter1138: cheating! oh wait-
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04:01<Bonez305>are 128x256 games popular ?
04:02<@peter1138>i like them but that doesn't count
04:02<Supercheese>That's right about minimum size IMO
04:02<Supercheese>I'm currently on a 256x256 game
04:02<Supercheese>very nice, I just hooked up all industries
04:02<@peter1138>i like 128x128 with 3 or 4 towns
04:02<@peter1138>64x is pushing it though
04:04<@peter1138>A fatal NewGRF error has occurred:
04:04<@peter1138>Attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 222)
04:04<@peter1138>sounds cool
04:04<@peter1138>i guess too-many-railtypes isn't handled :P
04:04<Flygon>I'm using a 2048*2048 game :D
04:04<Supercheese>Flygon: way too big :S
04:04<Flygon>I should have gotten a daylength patch installed too... I barely covered NE-USA by the time it hit 1985
04:04<Flygon>Starting from
04:04<Supercheese>1024x512 is excessive for singleplayer, IMHO
04:05<Bonez305>are 128x256 games good for 4 players ?
04:05<Supercheese>for multiplayer, perhaps larger maps are workable
04:05<Flygon>I WISH this map worked in MP
04:05<Flygon>But it doesn't work
04:05<Flygon>Too big
04:05<Supercheese>Bonez305: try 256x256 first, as peter1138 mentioned, that's pretty much the "standard" map size
04:06<Flygon>And nobody in this house plays OpenTTD
04:06<Flygon>256*256 is a fantastic starting size, yeah
04:06<Bonez305>sorry i meant 256 256
04:07<@peter1138>yeah it's fine
04:08<Bonez305>think about running a server on my VPS, so basically just drop the folder in a "openttd -D ?
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04:11<Flygon>Supercheese: I suspect I should get 100/40 to run 2048*2048 MP. Which I'd like. This NA map is FANTASTIC.
04:11<Flygon>Menta, planetmaker :D
04:12<Supercheese>100/40 ?
04:14<Flygon>mbits internet
04:16<Flygon>Only 24/1 atm, makes MP impossible :(
04:20<Supercheese>I see, yeah, I hear aussie net pricing is blarg :(
04:21*Supercheese resorts to more doubleheading
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04:32<@peter1138>2048x2048 is blarg
04:36<Supercheese>good night
04:44<Flygon>Supercheese: Pricing isn't the problem
04:44<Flygon>AVAILABILITY is
04:44<Flygon>Can UKRS2 trains go over 225km/h? With the High Speed Carriages?
04:47<Flygon>Thank you, peter
04:48<@peter1138>there's a hitachi that goes ~250 too
04:48<Flygon>299km/h... fugg
04:48<Flygon>What a tease
04:48<Flygon>peter1138, Hitachi trains have only been driven up to 130km/h here...
04:48<Flygon>It'd have been cruised faster, but the curves here don't allow that :)
04:49<Flygon> On the upside, it looks awesome
04:49<@peter1138>2016 :p
04:49<Flygon>Yeah, I know the actual Hitachi train in the UK :3
04:49<Flygon>Hitachi's here are becoming rare
04:49<Flygon>It's become a gag that peeps report Hitachi sightings... from Britian
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05:01<@peter1138>so i ended up with...
05:01<@peter1138>if (r <= .125f) { t = .5 - tanf((.125f - r) * 2 * M_PI) * .5f; } else { t = .5 + tanf((r - .125f) * 2 * M_PI) * .5f; }
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05:02<@peter1138>(r is 0..1, not radians or degrees)
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05:06<@peter1138>just to make this undo knob work ...
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05:32<@peter1138>"It looks like it has the same issue tbh... I still have all the source files for OpenGFX so it should be fairly easy to tweak though.
05:32<@peter1138>are they not in vcs?
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06:03<jonty-comp>bollocks to chicago, coventry is the windy city
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06:07<SpComb>it's a modified version of brainfuck called perl
06:07<andythenorth>ah perl
06:07<andythenorth>the most human language
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06:17<Pikka>apparently not
06:23<@peter1138>Pikka, Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka Pikka
06:23<Pikka>yes jeremy?
06:23*MNIM electrifies peter1138
06:25<Pikka>peter1138 is the hairy lime type man
06:25<oskari89>Pikka: How many OpenTTD-related projects do you have on progress?
06:26<Pikka>actually in progress?
06:26<Pikka>four perhaps
06:27<oskari89>Okay, i was thinking that Finnish Trainset could utilise a coder now since Lakie hasn't got time at all for coding...
06:27<oskari89>And that won't possibly change on near future
06:27<oskari89>If you are intrested, pm DanMacK
06:28<Pikka>danmack's been very quiet lately
06:28<oskari89>Yes, he has got some other projects going
06:29<oskari89>There's nearly all specs on excel file
06:30<Pikka>specs in excel is the fun and easy bit
06:30<oskari89>And about 60 % of graphics ready for coding :P
06:31<oskari89>All related files here
06:32<oskari89>Nicely on proper folders
06:32<oskari89>And makefile there too
06:38<Pikka>nml is so silly
06:38<Pikka>in my opinion :)
06:38<@planetmaker>we should write OpenTTD in assembler ;-)
06:38<Pikka>but then I guess we all just like to keep doing things the way we've been doing them
06:39<Pikka>OpenTTD is vastly more complex than even the most complex grf, planetmaker
06:40<Pikka>proper programming languages make sense for OpenTTD. but most grfs are so simple that nml seems massively overkill. But if it's what people feel comfortable with, then I'm not one to judge. :)
06:41<@planetmaker>I wouldn't write a "hello world" programme in assembler either ;-)
06:41*peter1138 ponders committing some random stuff without review
06:42<Pikka>do it
06:42<Pikka>it'll be a laught
06:42<V453000>I need a minion to code signals to be aware what kind of track they are on :(
06:42<V453000>also hi :)
06:43<V453000>I would like to make tracks which have signals directly on them, similar to current road signs
06:43<@peter1138>yeah boi
06:44<@peter1138>(ships stopping instantly from 150 knots is... silly, mind you)
06:44<Pikka>ships need to crash
06:44<@peter1138>and then you need an advanced setting to disable and reduce ship crashes
06:44<Pikka>I've been doing a fair bit of research into late 19th century shipping, for non-openttd reasons lately
06:44<V453000>trains stopping instantly from 600kmh ;)
06:45<Pikka>and it seems for merchant ships of that period, sinking within 10 years of being launched was the norm
06:45<@peter1138>random sinking!
06:45<@peter1138>FISH ships don't get maintained
06:45<Pikka>they have 0 reliability decay
06:45<@peter1138>their reliability is unmatched
06:46<oskari89>They have no planned obsolescense
06:47<Flygon>Pikka: Let's design Tiremes and push them more than 1 tile from the coast
06:47<@peter1138>(it's silly how much effort i put in to rgb recolours which is undoubtedly never going to hit trunk)
06:47<@planetmaker>FS5454 could use quite a bit more doxygen at least
06:47<Flygon>And give it a 50% chance of sinking :D
06:48<@peter1138>planetmaker, that one is a crude hack to test the concept, defintely not ready
06:48<Pikka>let's just bung it all in and call it 2.0 \o/
06:49<@planetmaker>what's the reasoning for ?
06:50<@peter1138>cos it doesn't need to be 32 bits. rubidium suggested it, heh
06:50<@peter1138>all but the last commit is sensible at least though, imho
06:53<@planetmaker> <-- what problem exactly does this solve?
06:54<@planetmaker>you want railtypes to provide combined ground+track sprites?
06:54<@peter1138>a non-problem
06:55<@peter1138>some people have complained that the sprite combining method doesn't allow them to draw the junctions as they want them
06:55<@peter1138>that should allow it without introducing more variables
06:55<@planetmaker>in what way exactly?
06:55<@peter1138>although i haven't tested it cos nobody drew anything yet
06:56<@peter1138>sprite combinding is a bit awkard for 3rd rail/metro style stuff, i believe
06:56<@planetmaker>yes, ok. But what sprites are provided by this... it talks awefully lot about ground sprites. Which... would be bad, if railtypes need to provide ground sprites
06:57<@peter1138>no, it's the overlay
06:57<@planetmaker>they should provide underlay. Which in turn is drawn on the ground. which is drawn below the actual tracks
06:58<@planetmaker>ok, so new overlay sprites for all junctions
06:58<@peter1138>for simplicity it's for all flat layouts, except bare (hence the -1)
06:59<@planetmaker>I see.
06:59<@peter1138>i don't really know if it's a good idea or not, i just coded it :p
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06:59<@peter1138>but i figured that would be less cpu-intensive than adding a variable for newgrfs to check and decide what to draw
06:59<@peter1138>(which is what pikka asked for a while back)
07:00<Pikka>but I'm not really bothered :)
07:00<V453000>I think it could be pretty good for some situations
07:00<@peter1138>i think Eddi|zuHause was quite vocal but as he doesn't make grfs (afaik) he doesn't matter ;)
07:01<@planetmaker>I think on the account that he doesn't make NewGRFs, but well :-)
07:01<@planetmaker>+you err :D
07:02*planetmaker whispers CETS
07:02<@planetmaker>:-) Now you know
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>i don't make grfs, i make scripts that make grfs :)
07:03<@peter1138>as an advantage junction tiles would actually be less cpu-intensive to draw than now ;)
07:03<@planetmaker>peter1138, the order of sprites would be as determined by the track bits value of the tile? Or how?
07:03<@peter1138>yeah, it's just track bits - 1
07:04<@planetmaker>might make sense. Would also allow curvy tracks
07:04<@peter1138>and the original split up parts are still needed for half-tile corners and pbs reservations
07:04<@planetmaker>though that might better require reading adjacent track bits
07:04<@peter1138>and any non-flat tile
07:04<@peter1138>yeah, curvy tracks needs adjacent info
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07:05<@planetmaker>ui... looks like world ends here now ;-) What a downpour
07:05<@peter1138>plus a state machine to actually work :p
07:05<@peter1138>and more vehicle angles
07:05<@peter1138>meh, not openttd any more ;)
07:05<@planetmaker>more vehicle angles is already feasible
07:05<@planetmaker>and done :D
07:06<@peter1138>i mean without cets-like hacks
07:06<@peter1138>but our vehicle movement code is not up to the task
07:10<Pikka>I'll buy more vehicle angles once the size of the vehicles is the same in different directions ;)
07:10<@peter1138>Pikka, partly that
07:10<@peter1138>it needs sub-pixel positioning to work right
07:11<@peter1138>well, sub-unit, they're not pixels
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the "units" in horizontal/vertical movement need to change from 4px to 3px (roughly)
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>or we need to switch to hexagonal raster :)
07:13<@peter1138>much finer than that please
07:15<Pikka>he means for getting the vehicles the same size (approximately) :)
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>well Bad_Brett had sub-unit positioning for his extra zoom vehicles:
07:15<@peter1138>24 pixels long?
07:16<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, more hacks though :-(
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07:16<@peter1138>oh hey :D
07:17<Bad_Brett>Are you talking about me? :D
07:17<@peter1138>needs maybe an extra byte, and treat it as a fixed-point decimal
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: we have that extra byte already, it's called "progress"
07:18<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it's reset in a few places
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>but it applys to the whole consist
07:18<@peter1138>and that too
07:18<@peter1138>it appies to the front
07:18<@peter1138>cos it's not meant for positioning as such
07:18<@peter1138>and also it's depending on direction
07:19<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, so i want independent x/y subposition, along with finer rotation!
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>CODE IT THEN! :)
07:19<@peter1138>i might
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07:20<@peter1138>didn't we have fixed-point types somewhere?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>instead of OpenTTD 2.0 we then call it OpenLomo 1.0 :)
07:20<@peter1138>istr celestar being involved somewhere
07:20<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, oh and smooth gradients!
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: that was the economy rewrite thingie, i think it wasn't included
07:20<@peter1138>bogey simulation!
07:21<@peter1138>not snot
07:21<@peter1138>"trucks" i think USians would call them
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>i need to go now :/
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07:27<@peter1138>"But when there is long, wide lines with heavy traffic, many many track-changing crossings on line and not very much obstacles around, copy-paste is a must."
07:27<@peter1138>oh really
07:27<@peter1138>i honestly nave never ever ever felt the need for C&P
07:30<Pikka>but peter
07:31<@peter1138>but pikka
07:31<Pikka>every junction needs to be a huge cloverleaf you've copied off the internet
07:31<Pikka>don't you know how to play openttd?
07:31<@peter1138>no :-(
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07:35<Flygon>And Comeng made shit that just worked
07:38<@peter1138>Flygon, unrealistic
07:38<@peter1138>the carriages are too long!
07:39<Flygon>We have HST's in Australia, silly
07:39<Flygon>'s just that they never reach their design speed due to track design >_>
07:39<@peter1138>they're at least a full tile long, maybe 1.5
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07:40<V453000>anyway, I have this as signals on my new rails ... problem is, on slopes I need different sprites and on diagonals the positions differ between diagonals of the same direction. Would anyone be interested in adding awareness for signals which exact track they are on?
07:40<Flygon>Are you familiar with the trains used under the Intercity 125 brand?
07:40<V453000>very conceptual but should illustrate the idea
07:40<Flygon>The Mk. 3 carriages that BR used?
07:40<Flygon>Each DMU car is around the same length
07:40<@peter1138>that's a signal? :S
07:41<Flygon> Comeng cloned the Mk. 3 cars for use with the XPT
07:41<V453000>well it can look differently, but it indeed can work as a signal
07:42<V453000>in case of presignals it should be a lot more obvious what works how to new people
07:42<@peter1138>flygon is missing the point :-(
07:42<Pikka>not big surprise
07:42<Flygon>Also, peter1138, if you're at any point abusing my inability to tell a troll from a user, let me know please
07:42<@peter1138>12:39 <@peter1138> they're at least a full tile long, maybe 1.5
07:42<@peter1138>plus being in #openttd
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07:42<@peter1138>i think it's pretty obvious i'm comparing it with ttd graphics
07:42<V453000>the same thing can hang on a big board above rails, but it still would make use of the new specs
07:43<Flygon> vs
07:43<Flygon>British Sprinter vs Victorian Sprinter
07:43<Flygon>Victorian Sprinter plzkthx
07:44<Flygon>Though, arguably, the Victorian Sprinters are actually remotely derived from the VR DRC cars which are clearly inspired by American Budd Diesel Railcars
07:44<Flygon> Seriously, look at this and tell me it's not a Budd Diesel Railcar
07:44<Flygon>peter1138: And I can reassure you, Sprinters fit inside 0.5 tiles
07:45<@peter1138>not when they're drawn like that
07:46<V453000>? :d
07:46<@peter1138>of course, the best trains are the pacers
07:46<Flygon> How about the biggest non-articulated mofo in Australia :U
07:46<@peter1138>which is clearly NOT based on a bus...
07:48<Flygon>peter1138: Should have just made a tram with tall bogies
07:49<@peter1138>why, when you can just put a bus on rails...
07:49<Flygon>Also, just to confuse you
07:49<Flygon> Yes, the Trams and Trains use different voltages
07:49<Flygon>peter, that must be unsafe
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07:49<Flygon>Anyway, gotta brb 30 mins
07:50<@peter1138>yeah the door's on the wrong side ;p
07:51<@peter1138>It is powered by a 200hp 6 cylinder Leyland TR11 engine driving through a fully automatic gearbox. A flexicoil suspension system supposedly allowed the unit to be used at speeds up to 100mph!
07:51<@peter1138>yeah right
07:57<V453000> halp :)
08:01<Pikka>it might get that fast if you drop it off a cliff, peter1138
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08:06<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: we have a crossing like that as well:
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08:08<Bonez305>is there a factor that makes loading and unloading go by faster ?
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>Bonez305: vehicles can define how much is loaded in each step
08:08<Bonez305>example ?
08:09<Bonez305>for instance trains.
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>Bonez305: it means you can change it by NewGRFs
08:10<Bonez305>Eddi|zuHause: I dont get it, mind you I'm new to this game
08:11<V453000>then no
08:11<V453000>each vehicle has some speed in which it loads, defined by its code
08:12<Bonez305>Thats what I wanted to know. :D
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: so you're calling that "NUSS" then? [that's german for NUTS :)]
08:14<V453000>what do you mean? :)
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>(or actually NUT, but whatever :))
08:15<V453000>the tracks?
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i mean the "NUTS Unrealistic Signal Set"
08:15<V453000>or signals or whatever
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>"NUSS Unrealistic Signal Set"
08:15<V453000>didnt think about a name yet really
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>you gotta have a backronym before you start the project!
08:16<V453000>I will need the specs to allow it first though :( but I might try to make the best ouf of the current situation too
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>its the mostest imprtantestest thing in the world!
08:16<V453000>hm :)
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>(missing apostrophe is for stylistic completeness and thus intentional)
08:17<V453000>well, I am trying it inside NUTS itself :P
08:17<V453000>then it could eventually be released as separate track set
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: could make it 32bpp as a semitransparent track overlay :)
08:18<V453000>why semitransparent :)
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>because of the tracks (and vehicles) underneath :)
08:18<V453000>vehicles are drawn under signals
08:18<Flygon>Eddi: Lemme guess, build up speed, drop panto, coast, raise panto?
08:19<V453000>well that screws things up I guess
08:19<Flygon>Or do they share voltage?
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: yes, that's what the blue sign says. although technically the crossing is refitted to switch voltage
08:19<Flygon>Ah, crossings here aren't refitted
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>only the railway chose not to use that
08:20<Flygon>Too dangerous in peak hour
08:20<V453000>hm I guess having signals to get a spec whether they are drawn after or before a train is not the way to go?
08:20<Flygon>Blowing up a tram with accidental 1500V DC or breaking down a train (and substation) with 600V DC is nobody's idea of fun
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08:21<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it would need specifying the signal's bounding box
08:21<Flygon>The best solution is to just avoid crossings in the first place :)
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08:21<Flygon> The second best option is to ask Pakistani to redesign a Tram
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>btw: germany used to have busses that could go on rails:
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08:33<Flygon>Y'know what
08:33<Flygon>Screw Germany
08:33<Flygon> Australia :D
08:35<Eddi|zuHause><insert obligatory russian reference here>
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>also: :)
08:38<Flygon>Stupid Serial Escalation :U
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10:39<mouse>hi.. my computer asks for 3rd party files?? any help??
10:40<@peter1138>well that's unfortunate
10:40<Rubidium>mouse: what is the exact message?
10:41<mouse>Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt.
10:41<mouse>and 4.1 says something about 3rd party files
10:41<Rubidium>so... you're using Mac OS X?
10:42<Pikka> is it?
10:42<Rubidium>mouse: have you read 4.1.1?
10:43<mouse>what am i supposed to do with the file i just downloaded??
10:43<Pikka>what it says in 4.1 :)
10:43<mouse>that makes sence :)
10:43<mouse>4.1) (Required) 3rd party files
10:43<mouse>this is 4.1
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10:44<Pikka>put the game's data files into a baseset/
10:45<mouse>i´m sorry, but i am really a dummy.. How do i make a baseset??
10:45<Pikka>I am not an os x user, but basically, find where it installed openttd
10:45<Pikka>there will be a directory there called baseset
10:45<Pikka>put the files in there
10:46<mouse>something is called: ogfx1_base.grf
10:47<mouse>a file
10:47<@planetmaker>a base set consists of several files
10:47<@planetmaker>the one you quote is one of 7 you need. But you don't need to unpack it, if you got it as a *.tar file
10:48<mouse>the file is called: ogfx1_base.grf
10:49<@planetmaker> <-- download from there. And unpack the file you get into ~/Documents/OpenTTD/baseset
10:52<mouse>now i´ve found the baseset, but nothing is in it?????
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10:55<@planetmaker>Exactly that's your problem. The dir is empty. And you need to unzip the file from the download location I linked you into that very dir
10:57<mouse>IT WOORKS!! Thank you so much:)
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10:58<@peter1138>wow, it's all documented and everything
11:00<Pikka> here's a photo of queen victoria
11:01<@peter1138>whis is it
11:01<@peter1138>what is it
11:02<Pikka>it is what it is
11:03<@peter1138>hmm, industry
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11:09<@peter1138>which one is the parameter, 00?
11:09<@peter1138>where is it, callback or graphics chain?
11:10<Pikka>industries don't have a graphics chain, but it's outside any specified callback
11:10<@peter1138>outside, so always seen?
11:11<@peter1138>can't do that
11:11<@peter1138>some of the callbacks are called with no tile
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11:12<@peter1138>not sure if that's true :p
11:13<@peter1138>industry_available callack but then industry is null too
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11:17<Pikka>actually, it's after a callback check, so it's not seen by the availability or location callbacks anyway.
11:17<@peter1138>it shouldn't crash
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11:36<Pikka>if I put in another check so it skips that part of the grf if it's the first of the month, it doesn't crash
11:36<Pikka>it's definitely a problem with trying to check var 61 before the industry is properly initialised
11:38<Pikka>and if I then try and prospect a coal mine on a date other than the 1st, it crashes :D
11:43<Pikka>I suspect even if the crash is fixed, it still may not be possible to use that var in this circumstance, so I might just switch to using another quasi-random var instead ;)
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12:03<Pikka>your patch also affects other variables, eg var 65
12:03<Pikka>yet I am finding that var 65 works :)
12:04<Pikka>I hope it will not make it unwork
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12:12<Rubidium>peter1138: the 0x60 case, does that really need it? I don't see this->tile being used there
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12:26<@peter1138>Rubidium, you're right. i saw tile...
12:26<@peter1138>Pikka, 65 needs a tiel
12:26<@peter1138>so in the cases where there's no tile, it won't work
12:27<Pikka>well, it seems to be working
12:27<@peter1138>maybe it's not crashing :p
12:27<Pikka>it isn't, but it's also working ;)
12:27<Pikka>so hopefully your changes will not change that
12:28<@peter1138>the result is meaningless
12:29<Pikka>anyway, we'll see, if it causes me problems I'll just have to change things around a bit, no dramas
12:29<@peter1138>alternatively we can ask why is tile invalid?
12:30<@peter1138>i->location is set in these cases
12:30<@peter1138>i'm looking at DoCreateNewIndustry()
12:31<@peter1138>we have a tile, but pass INVALID_TILE
12:31<@peter1138>i'm assuming there's a good reason for it
12:31<Rubidium>something in the specs?
12:33<@peter1138>most likely
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12:58-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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13:32<Wolf01>hel... wait for it ...lo
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13:40<__ln__>that was new
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13:40<Eddi|zuHause>that was legen...
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24969 /trunk/src/lang (danish.txt korean.txt) (2013-02-05 18:46:08 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>danish - 17 changes by Hellwing
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 48 changes by telk5093
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14:21<Wolf01>moin Alberth
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14:56<@peter1138>equality for all!
14:57*Rubidium will stop fixing bugs and committing if you strive for equal bug fix and commit counts ;)
14:59<Wolf01>once at work I had to make 6 commits for a bugfix, one for the core and one for each other 5 applications which used that feature
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15:00*Rubidium has seen bugfixes in OpenTTD with hundreds of commits ;)
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15:24<Eddi|zuHause>"-Fix: behaviour of passengers" :p
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15:26<Rubidium>nah, that's not that many commits
15:28<Rubidium>make the UI scale to the translation... that was hundreds of commits
15:28<Supercheese>and right-to-left stuff, I'd wager
15:29<Rubidium>nope, that's simpler
15:31<Rubidium>only a part of the windows need custom code, the rest is done generically
15:32<Rubidium>for the UI scaling all windows need to be (basically) rewritten
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15:35<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: and it still cannot scale the sprite font?
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>("scale" as in provide bigger sprites)
15:36<Rubidium>that's something else
15:39<Rubidium>the UI can scale, just there's nothing for determining the height of the sprite font
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15:47<@peter1138>mixed font sizes
15:47<@peter1138>there's probably some grfs that add specific characters in the normal size
15:48<Supercheese>Huh, the New Map Features patchpack crashes when loading the 1.2.3 title game...
15:48<@peter1138>that's a good start
15:48<Supercheese>works fine using the standard nightly title game
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15:50<Supercheese>Yep, crashy crash
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: yes, CETS adds some superscript numbers
15:51<Supercheese>Well, I hope it doesn't crash any further...
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>0-9 and I, V and possibly X, i forgot
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>default font only has 1-3 and they look ugly
15:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24970 trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp (2013-02-05 20:52:28 UTC)
15:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5346]: crash when infinite loop occured during loading a script
15:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24971 trunk/bin/ai/regression/ (2013-02-05 20:53:26 UTC)
15:53<@DorpsGek>-Fix: ignore screenshot folder in regression
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16:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24972 trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp (2013-02-05 21:07:24 UTC)
16:07<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5258]: do not make overbuilding rivers with canals insanely expensive; there is no real need to fill the river with dirt first, just excavate it a bit and build borders
16:08-!-xT2 is now known as ST2
16:10<Rubidium>argh... LordAro ... why?
16:10<LordAro>the fs? :P
16:10<Rubidium>don't you want a 1.3?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>we haven't released a beta in a while
16:10<LordAro>pfft. you got nearly 2 months to fix bugs :P
16:11<Supercheese>April 1st right?
16:13<@Terkhen>good night
16:15<oskari89>Concerning CETS, should someone take a look at GPL-licensed sprites from other sets? Even though someone needs to draw additional 8 directions.. ?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>oskari89: there's very little advantage you get out of there
16:16<Rubidium>given the amount of time I had free over the last few months, I doubt I have much time in the coming 2 months
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>oskari89: but if you have some sprites, go ahead and put them into the appropriate template :)
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16:26<LordAro>Rubidium: :(
16:29<@peter1138>who needs releases when you have nightlies :D
16:31<@Alberth>hi LordAro
16:31<LordAro>peter1138: indeed :)
16:32<LordAro>Alberth: heyo
16:32<@Alberth>I just sent you a PM
16:33<@Alberth>peter1138: releases are just for MP servers, so they have a version that everybody agrees on to use
16:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24973 trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp (2013-02-05 21:38:38 UTC)
16:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5462]: Prevent access to tile-based variables when tile is invalid.
16:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r24974 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2013-02-05 21:41:32 UTC)
16:41<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5279]: Honour pause_on_newgame setting when running as a dedicated server.
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17:06<@peter1138>hmm, with a compiler optimise consecutive writes to a pointer?
17:06<@peter1138>*p = 0;
17:06<@peter1138>*p += foo;
17:06<@peter1138>*p += bar;
17:06<@peter1138>*p *= baz;
17:10<+glx>it the 3 values are constant I guess it does
17:11<__ln__>glx: do you feel it was the right thing to do to allow women to wear trousers in paris?
17:11<@peter1138>not constant at all :)
17:11<+glx>__ln__: it was forbidden since 18XX IIRC
17:13*peter1138 compares with objdump
17:14<+glx>but I hope it does optimise it, because it should be simpler to do all the math before the write in memory
17:16<+glx>you are comparing the generated code with *p = (foo + bar) * baz; ?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>i've never looked at the generated asm
17:16<@peter1138>using a separate (register) variable
17:16<@peter1138>(and yes, it is performance critical)
17:18<@peter1138>awkward, the loops are unrolled i think
17:18<@peter1138>good for performance but harder to compare :p
17:23<@peter1138>it's an audio plugin, so while individually it doesn't, they tend to get added together
17:24<@peter1138>*doesn't matter
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17:31<+michi_cc>peter1138: Is any of the foobar stuff a pointer itself? If yes, probably not because of aliasing (unless you use (__)restrict or pass the appropriate flags).
17:32*NGC3982 is now an insurance agent.
17:32<@peter1138>michi_cc, yup
17:32<__ln__>NGC3982: double-oh-3982?
17:32<NGC3982>Actually, i have applied to internal affairs service.
17:33<NGC3982>But that will take at least a year
17:33<NGC3982>Or more
17:33-!-NGC3982 is now known as Double-O-3982
17:34<@peter1138>yeah, using the local var cuts processing time a lot
17:34<Double-O-3982>I just love how insurance companies (like RSA) are literaly huge. They basicly have their own school system (in-wich i'm using right now) with a small faculty of teachers and employees.
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17:35<Bonez305>is there a way to get my company back someone bought 75% of it
17:35<@peter1138>each of the other pointers is used only once per sample
17:35<Bonez305>i forgot to set a password :/
17:35<@peter1138>so i don't think i can improve on that
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17:37<+michi_cc>Yeah, an explicit local var is basically just the equivalent of telling the compiler that writes to *p will not change the input.
17:38<+michi_cc>If you're processing more than one sample at once, use MMX/SSE instructions.
17:39<@peter1138>beyond my knowledge :p
17:40<+michi_cc>Compiler intrinsics make it relatively easy. Does the plugin interface define any data alignment?
17:40<@peter1138>don't think so
17:41<+michi_cc>Which CPU and which data type?
17:41<@peter1138>x86(_64), float
17:43<@peter1138>hmm, compiler has using xmm registers and scalar (not parallel) instructions
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>Bonez305: that doesn't have anything to do with each other
17:44<@peter1138>but anyway, i need to process each input, buffer and output on a sample-by-sample basis
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>Bonez305: someone who owns shares in your company can't control your company, and someone who joins your company because you didn't set a password doesn't need to own any shares in it
17:50<+michi_cc>peter1138: would process four samples at once.
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17:51<+michi_cc>I think the gcc intrinsics are identical to the MSVC ones, but I could be wrong :)
17:51<+michi_cc>Oh, sorry, the first _mm_store_ss should be _mm_store_ps
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17:52<Bonez305>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, I thought it had something to do with them owning my company lol
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>Bonez305: only an administrator can kick out the second person from your company
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>(or you ask him kindly to leave)
17:54<+michi_cc>If the output isn't immediately processed again (and 16 byte aligned) _mm_stream_ps instead of store will skip L1/L2 caches.
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18:03<+michi_cc>Improved cache behaviour for aligned memory (and without any bound checks :):
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18:07<@peter1138>shit, forgot to copy the object between benchmarks
18:07<@peter1138>so that was useless :p
18:07<@peter1138>got it down to 40 ms, from 220ms originally
18:07<+glx>not bad
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18:08<@peter1138>object code is smaller too o_O
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18:11<+michi_cc>And now even actually working: (why read different memory locations anyway ;)
18:12<@peter1138>yeah, um, sorry about that
18:12<@peter1138>the foo/bar/baz was just an abbreviated example
18:13<+michi_cc>Yeah, but it should still illustrate the concept.
18:14<@peter1138>i can't do 8 samples at a time
18:14<+michi_cc>Hmm, it would probably be better to load all _*1 before _*2
18:14<@peter1138>due to interactions between buffers
18:14<@peter1138>well, possible interactions
18:14<@peter1138>buffer length could be as low a 1 sample
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>constructs like "*out++" scare ne
18:15<@peter1138>thoguh it still uses the whole buffer, the write pointer would be 1 sample behind the read pointer in that case
18:15<@peter1138>and the difference between them will be different for each buffer
18:15<@peter1138>i am happy with 220ms -> 40ms
18:16<+michi_cc>If you can query the buffer length (and buffers >= 8 samples are common), have two code paths (i.e. SSE for > 8 samples and a simple loop for the remainder).
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18:22<@peter1138>i can process 26 seconds of audio in 270ms
18:22<@peter1138>might be adequate
18:23<+glx>better than real time :)
18:23<@peter1138>oh wait, i calculated that wrong :S
18:24<@peter1138>10 seconds of audio in 36ms
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18:25<@peter1138>now do i commit this all at once as optimisation
18:26<@peter1138>changed a couple of data structures to enable loops to be reused
18:29<@peter1138>i should check it still works acutlly :p
18:30<@peter1138>answer is... no :p
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18:42<@peter1138>now it works
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18:43<@peter1138>pointer/array deference in the wrong order
18:46<@peter1138>that's disappointing!
18:46<@peter1138>brings it up to 48ms for 10 seconds of audio
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>darn it! programs that work are slower than programs that don't work :p
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19:00<@peter1138>just knocked ~ 4ms off that
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19:41<__ln__>end of discussion
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>there was a discussion?
19:46<__ln__>end of monologue then
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>i was under the impression a discussion involves 2 or more people with different opinions exchanging arguments
19:50<__ln__>could be.
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19:56<Pikka>isn't it
19:57<Supercheese>Pikka: my 0-6-0 goods engines keep swapping their paint schemes when the train autorefits
19:57<Supercheese>All black when freight-ish stuff, then to colorful then autorefit to goods
19:57<@peter1138>woo, knocked off another couple of ms :p
19:57<Supercheese>and back again
19:58<Supercheese>when autorefit*
19:58<@peter1138>(checking at the start if i need to check for buffer overflow
19:58<Supercheese>I suspect engine-liver-based-on-train-cargo was implemented before autorefit :P
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22:28<Bonez305>wow i suck at this game lmfao
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 06 00:00:36 2013