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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-06

---Logopened Wed Feb 06 00:00:36 2013
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00:13<Pokka>yes but
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00:48<MNIM>yes butt!
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03:53<@peter1138>in the butt
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04:29<Eddi|zuHause>mantje mantje timpe te
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>buttje buttje in de see
04:56<Eddi|zuHause>"British high court rules that copyright infringement is more akin to trespass than to theft, with the result that the copyright holder has no claim on the proceeds or profits from the illegit activities"
04:57<goodger>yay \o/
04:57<goodger>now we just need to end this ludicrous treatment of copyright infringement as crime
04:59<blathijs>goodger: Why?
04:59<blathijs>goodger: Doesn't that basically mean just removing copyright altogether?
05:00<goodger>no, but it should be something you are sued for (tort), rather than something you are arrested for (crime)
05:00<Eddi|zuHause>blathijs: civil law vs. criminal law
05:01<goodger>though I should point out that only distribution is a crime, and consumption is a tort
05:05<blathijs>goodger: Ah, like that
05:06<goodger>I also favour a reduction of copyright's scope, but that's a separate matter
05:08<@peter1138>scope?
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05:09<goodger>peter1138: I'd reduce the terms, expand fair use, etc
05:09<Eddi|zuHause>scope as in time, or what is covered?
05:13<goodger>it doesn't matter; this country has no effective democratic process, so any potential reform is beyond my influence
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05:19<@peter1138>great argument
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>"democratic process" isn't something god-given. you must demand it, otherwise it won't be there...
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05:26<@planetmaker>the price of freedom is eternal vigilance?
05:27<@planetmaker>good morning everyone also :-)
05:27<gooodger>we can't demand democratic process, we just have to hope the current system installs a set of politicians willing to provide it
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05:29<@planetmaker>that sounds way too defiant. You can take things into your own hands. Raise your voice. Become involved
05:29<@planetmaker>If you're not willing to stand up for your ideals and ideas - why should others?
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05:30<SpComb>are we talking about tt-forums or what? :)
05:30<@planetmaker>I think not :-)
05:30<SpComb>down with the orudge tyranny!
05:34<gooodger>orudge is a fine fellow
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05:53<@peter1138>hmm, i wonder how much heat will be generated by running my cpu at full performance?
05:53<@peter1138>cpu temp is currently 20°C
05:53<@peter1138>(better than last week when it was 8°C)
05:54<TinoDidriksen>Pfft, modern CPUs are so cool you can't even fry stuff on them.
05:54<@peter1138>TinoDidriksen, it's a 5 year old AMD...
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05:55<TinoDidriksen>20°C is still nothing. My old machine used to reach 90°C...had to use a limiter program to prevent it from shutting down past 80°C.
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05:55<@peter1138>TinoDidriksen, i know it's nothing, maybe reread my question? :)
05:56<TinoDidriksen>I did read it. My point was more that even at max, modern CPUs just won't fry stuff.
05:56<@peter1138>i didn't ask about frying
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>"You know the world is going to hell when CVE must change its numbering scheme to allow more than 9999 security bugs per year"
05:58<@peter1138>hmm 89W TDP
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05:59<andythenorth>Rubidium: 24972 \o/
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>"D-Link Firmware: v2.09EU Build: 09beta01: Fixed D-Track-HQ20130104000005:Manual date limited to 2012.."
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>"D-Link Firmware: v2.09EU Build: 09beta02: Modify Manual date to 2040."
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06:01<Eddi|zuHause>"D-Link Firmware: v2.09EU Build: 09beta03: Modify Manual date to 2037."
06:01<@peter1138>heh
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06:14<Eddi|zuHause>wtf?
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>-#define TWO -2.0 /* -2 */
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>+#define TWO 2.0 /* 2 */
06:14<goodger>o.o
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>http://sourceware.org/ml/glibc-cvs/2013-q1/msg00115.html
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09:17<@Belugas>hello
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09:18<Eddi|zuHause>good hunger
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11:29<Eddi|zuHause>"can't be bothered to shower"->first world problem; "no water to shower"->third world problem; "what is showering?"->private television problem
11:29<goodger>private television?
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>the kind that don't have public funding
11:31<goodger>ah, commercial television
11:32<@peter1138>cos the bbc is not commercial
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>the kind that makes the cheapest programs that reach the most viewers
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>and because like everywhere, the dumb viewers far outnumber the intelligent ones, so this results in ever dumber programmes
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11:34<goodger>sounds like ITV to me
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12:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24975 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2013-02-06 17:51:05 UTC)
12:51<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5463]: Additional zoom in levels could glitch by a few pixels due to incorrect rounding.
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12:59<@peter1138>hee
12:59<Pikka>haw
12:59<@peter1138>PIKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
13:00<Pikka>does it?
13:00<Pikka>industry coding is "fun"
13:00<@peter1138>so is your mother
13:00<Pikka>probably in a different way though
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>"ACTA is dead. long live TAFTA"
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13:33<frosch123>hmm, someone was hungry...
13:33<frosch123>... and ate most of the bugs
13:34<@peter1138>heh
13:35<@peter1138>non-platform-specific bugs, anyway
13:38<frosch123>yeah, looks like osx is like a big pile of plumb protecting the bugs under it from any radiation which might harm them
13:39<@peter1138>pile of plumb eh?
13:39<Supercheese>plumbum
13:41<Pikka>plumbum
13:41<Pikka>like your mother
13:42<@peter1138>yes
13:42<@peter1138>i do like my mother
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24976 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-02-06 18:45:20 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 16 changes by telk5093
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 1 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<@DorpsGek>malay - 2 changes by richz
13:48<@Terkhen>hello
13:48<Pikka>who's going to get r25000? :)
13:49<@Terkhen>someone who commits :P
13:49<@peter1138>probably some dodgy hidden commit by TB :p
13:50<TrueBrain>I would never do such thing! (A)
13:55<frosch123>whoever commits r25000 had to pay for the party
13:55<frosch123>if it is translators, then tb steps up :)
13:56<frosch123>anyway, it's still way too cold for a party :s
13:56<frosch123>maybe we should go to terkhen's place
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14:08<Rubidium>frosch123: you could make a beta2 release, or fix FS#3764 ;)
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14:08<frosch123>yeah, i should fix 3764 :)
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14:14<wojteks86>hi
14:14<wojteks86>can anyone please explain how do I translate "Your average cool engine" from 2cc trainset?
14:14<Rubidium>V453000: ^^^
14:15<Rubidium>hmm... or isn't that the from the crazy set?
14:15<frosch123>no, 2cc is a completely ordinary set
14:15<frosch123>i am surprised they use the word "cool"
14:15<frosch123>sounds like a bug :p
14:16<@peter1138>and "Your average", tbh
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14:18<wojteks86>dont know, I just opened the original English lang file
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14:25<Wolf01>hello
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14:32<Supercheese>Hmm, I can't seem to get this patch to properly apply again
14:32<wojteks86>which one?
14:32<Supercheese>new map features
14:32<frosch123>yeah, usually you can only apply them once
14:33<Supercheese>frosch: do I just svc checkout again or something?
14:33<Supercheese>svn*
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14:34<frosch123>you might also be interested in "status" "revert -R ." and "update -r foo"
14:34*Supercheese is not well-versed in patching
14:34<Supercheese>I click "apply patch" and hope it automagically works :P
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: usually you need to delete all new files added by the patch, then run "svn revert" on all the other files
14:36<Supercheese>That seems to indeed help, thanks
14:37<@peter1138>woaaaaaaaaaaaah ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
14:37<@peter1138>ahhh hahhhah hahhhhhhhha hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
14:37<@peter1138>x a few more
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>he's finally gone mad
14:38<Supercheese>he's been mad :P
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>no, he's just been crazy before. there's a small but subtle difference :)
14:39<Supercheese>M.A.D.
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which, i always wondered whether the guy's called "Alfred E. Neumann" in the english version as well
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14:41<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, i was crazy before, this is just the dark side
14:41<Supercheese>"New-mun" vs. "Noi-mann" :P
14:41<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i believe he has like 7 names in 5 languages
14:43<@Terkhen>frosch123: the flat that I share wouldn't be able to hold many people for the party :P
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: we can go outside, it's nice weather
14:44<frosch123>Terkhen: i don't like an indoor party, that's why i want it somewhere warm :)
14:45<Supercheese>Monaco :D
14:45<frosch123>or we have to postpone it till summer
14:45<Supercheese>actually, I have no idea how the weather there is
14:45<Supercheese>or anywhere in Europe, really :P
14:45<frosch123>here is snow temperature
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>we'll maybe have an r26.6k party :)
14:46<Supercheese>I've only ever been to the UK, the weather there was generally bleh, I'll presume southern Europe has nicer climates
14:46<Rubidium>sorry, but that's a bad number. 28k8 is much nicer
14:47<@Terkhen>heh :P
14:47<Rubidium>s/28k8/28.8k/
14:47<frosch123>even r26k6 would not be this year
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>ok, but that takes too long :p
14:47<frosch123>likely
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>just commit cargodist, one patch per line :)
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>and YACD as well, watch them battle each other :p
14:48<Rubidium>"new map features" will help a lot
14:50<Supercheese>Rubidium: I just compiled that :)
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: only if you call it "new map array" :p
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>(and then say "this was the final commit. so long, and thanks for all the fish"
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>)
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14:56<@Alberth>moin
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15:12<@Alberth>hi
15:13<@peter1138>28k8 == 28.8k
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15:13<@peter1138>when i was tought it, anyway
15:13<@peter1138>*taught
15:13<Double-O-3982>If i - In Debian - wants to make a usb drive act as a folder in (let's say) /home/name/disc-drive-folder. Is 'mount' what i'm looking for?
15:13-!-Double-O-3982 is now known as NGC3982
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15:16<@Alberth>you need 'mount' to attach anything to the file system; modern systems have auto-mounters though, they mount the disk at the moment you stick the usb stick in the machine
15:16<NGC3982>I see. The drive is already mounted then, and i need to "move it".
15:16*NGC3982 reads the manual.
15:16<@Alberth>no doubt auto-mounters are configured somewhere too, but I never bothered to find our where that is
15:16<frosch123>make a symlink then
15:17<frosch123>ln -s /media/FOOBAR /home/name/disc-drive-folder
15:17<andythenorth>lo
15:17<NGC3982>oh
15:17<@Alberth>quak, andy :)
15:17*NGC3982 tries.
15:17<Pikka>hello andy
15:18<Pikka>hm
15:18<Pikka>why is there no control code for "normal size" text?
15:18<Pikka>ie, in a news message
15:18<LordAro>\\o Alberth
15:18<andythenorth>bonsoir pikka
15:19<andythenorth>hey look
15:19<andythenorth>HEQS steam tram http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=423950&nseq=21
15:19<andythenorth>in 2011
15:19<andythenorth>where is roadtypes plz?
15:19<@Alberth>hi LordAro :)
15:19<Supercheese>andy: roadtypes are in trunk, you mean newgrf roadtypes :P
15:19<andythenorth>also that picture is very pretty
15:19<Pikka>good question andythenorth
15:20<andythenorth>and green
15:20<Supercheese>and Chinese
15:20<@Alberth>and sunny
15:20<andythenorth>and smokey
15:21<@Alberth>it's a steam train :)
15:23<andythenorth>this has improved my day http://www.thesalopianbar.co.uk/images/cheddarvalleysmall.jpg
15:24<andythenorth> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wnl6t0CBeKs/SXSOdZha_-I/AAAAAAAABfE/5wslJUpjIrc/s400/Cheddar+Valley+cider.JPG
15:24<andythenorth>it actuslly
15:24<andythenorth>is luminous
15:25*NGC3982 figured it out.
15:25<NGC3982>Alberth, frosch123: Thank you.
15:26*Alberth liked the steam tram more than the beer
15:26<andythenorth>cider :P
15:26<andythenorth>Pikka: so is TaI done then?
15:26<Pikka>very
15:26<andythenorth>awesome
15:27<Pikka>just trying to work out how to convey complex gameplay factors in THREE SHOUTY WORDS!
15:27<andythenorth>so about 20%?
15:27<Pikka>well
15:27<Pikka>one industry done about 80%
15:27<andythenorth>MOAR KITTENS PLZ?
15:27<Pikka>and once one is done, it's all cut and paste, right? ;)
15:28<andythenorth>yeah]
15:28<Supercheese>indeed :)
15:28<andythenorth>gah, can't type and eat :P
15:28<Pikka>my problem at the moment is telling the player the difference between "this industry is closing, but you can save it" and "this industry is closing, and you can't save it"
15:29<Supercheese>just disable industry closure
15:29<Supercheese>FIRS does it
15:29<Pikka>while keeping the language natural, and fitting it into a news message headline :)
15:29<@Alberth>andy: http://callbrewbaker.homestead.com/CuteKittens.html
15:30<Pikka>hmm
15:30<andythenorth>Pikka: you could use swearing?
15:30<Pikka>I could
15:31<andythenorth>openttd is a bit polite currently
15:31<andythenorth>it should swear more
15:31<andythenorth>maybe a new lang
15:31<andythenorth>en-swearing
15:31<Pikka>actually I thought about making a "humourous" town name set, to make the millions of new games required for industry testing slightly less dull
15:31<Pikka>but then I couldn't be bothered
15:31<andythenorth>figures
15:32<Pikka>okay
15:32<Pikka>news headlines short and not terribly informative
15:32<Pikka>actual gameplay information in the industry window
15:32<Pikka>got it
15:32<@Alberth>andythenorth: make a pirate language version
15:33<Supercheese>Arrrr
15:33<andythenorth>Pikka: news mesage: "lolwut this industry is a bit wtf"
15:33<Pikka>more like an archaeologist language version
15:33<Supercheese>Best project ever
15:33<Pikka>talk like phil harding day
15:34<LordAro>^^
15:35<Supercheese>OTTD should be released in Piratespeak for Talk like a Pirate day
15:35<Supercheese>All vehicles disabled except sailing ships
15:35-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D221.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
15:37<andythenorth>I can't decide how broken FISH 2 is
15:37<andythenorth>it's either 'just a little bit broken'
15:37<andythenorth>or it's totally borked and I should can it
15:38<Rubidium>can it and irradiate it
15:38<andythenorth>tempting
15:38<Supercheese>canned FISH is too common, put it in a mug
15:40<andythenorth>Pikka: should ship generations gain capacity? Or just speed?
15:41<Pikka>or only capacity?
15:41-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B0D1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:41*Supercheese likes the current generation scheme in FISH
15:41<Supercheese>+speed, +capacity
15:42<andythenorth>then you just have to scrap a few ships on the route
15:42<Rubidium>less dirty smoke
15:42<andythenorth>it's the most boring kind of route micromanagement
15:42<Pikka>ships need to sink :)
15:42<Supercheese>pirates
15:43<Supercheese>newgrf disasters
15:43<Supercheese>scrapping ships on a route when upgrades become available seems *gasp* realistic
15:44<andythenorth>it's not very interesting
15:44<andythenorth>as things go
15:44<Pikka>I think
15:44<Pikka>fish has too many ships
15:44<Pikka>I think most vehicle sets have too many vehicles
15:45<@Alberth>indeed
15:45<Pikka>I think our OpenTTD needs boiling down a bit
15:45<Supercheese>and Baskin Robbins has too many flavors of ice cream
15:45<andythenorth>Pikka: parameter: minimal set of ships?
15:46<Pikka>maybe
15:46<andythenorth>if I ever resurrect my truck set...it gets 2 trucks per generation
15:46<andythenorth>and some weird ones
15:46<Pikka>:)
15:46<Pikka>I don't know about parameters for minimal sets
15:47<Pikka>might be better to build minimal from the ground up
15:48<@Alberth>1 vehicle per newgrf :D
15:48<Pikka>close, alberth ;)
15:48<Supercheese>≈63 new vehicles max
15:48<Supercheese>O_o
15:49<andythenorth>minimal ships eh?
15:49<andythenorth>what would get included?
15:49<@Alberth>already in the default set I use less than 1/2 of the trains on normal rail
15:49<Pikka>andy: one "normal" ship per generation
15:50<@Alberth>andythenorth: pick 8 random ships each time you start a game :p
15:50<Pikka>and maybe one "small" ship per 2 or 3 generations, if you think you need one
15:50<andythenorth>Pikka: I had to add all the stupid tankers :P
15:50<andythenorth>most MP games seem to use the Island Trader
15:50<andythenorth>360t, and fastest ship
15:51<Pikka>well there you go
15:51<Pikka>also, the fewer things you're trying to balance, the easier the balance is ;)
15:51<@Alberth>I use a big one, 1080t iirc
15:52<Supercheese>Oh wow, does Wolfram Alpha use the Game of Life as a "processing" image?
15:52<andythenorth>Alberth: but you could use 3x360t ? o_O
15:53<@Alberth>I am sure I could
15:54<@Alberth>and for other stuff than coal it is probably even a good idea
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15:58<andythenorth>herp
15:58<andythenorth>cast iron radiators
15:59<andythenorth>kill my wifi signal every time :P
16:01<@Alberth>don't move :)
16:11<Markk>Wow, first one.
16:11<Markk>"World recession"
16:11<Markk>What does that mean? :o
16:14<@Alberth>Markk http://wiki.openttd.org/Economy
16:14<Markk>Oh
16:14<Markk>Sorry.
16:14<Markk>I feel stupid now.
16:15<Markk>Of course I should just rtfm. :)
16:15<Markk>Thanks mate!
16:16<@Alberth>sometimes people need a gentle push :)
16:18*NGC3982 pushes Markk of a clift.
16:18<Markk>Yes.
16:18<Markk>Haha
16:19<Markk>Sometimes it's easier to just ask. :)
16:19*NGC3982 asks alot.
16:19<Markk>a lot*
16:19<Markk>:*
16:24*NGC3982 prepares death.
16:27*andythenorth removes ships from FISH 2
16:27<andythenorth>but which?
16:27<LordAro>alot? http://tinyurl.com/29zllts
16:28<frosch123>night
16:28-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffd2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>is that related to an ocelot or a zealot?
16:33<@Terkhen>good night
16:34<Pikka>all of them, andy! :D
16:36<Kjetil>and what about sir.codes-a-lot ?
16:37<andythenorth>Pikka: well that is easy :)
16:37<andythenorth>but where's the challenge? :P
16:40<@Alberth>since you want to keep the odd ones, I'd say remove the even ones
16:41<andythenorth>he
16:41<andythenorth>good call
16:41<andythenorth>also
16:41<andythenorth>is anyone translating FIRS stuff?
16:41<@Alberth>you changed more strings?
16:41<andythenorth>might be time for next x.x.foo release
16:42<andythenorth>Alberth: dutch is up to date
16:43<@Alberth>yep, just 11 outdated false positives :)
16:46<andythenorth>Pikka: how about just a 35t ship?
16:46<andythenorth>if you have more cargo, get more ships...
16:46<Pikka>eh
16:46<Pikka>I think if anything, big ships are better
16:46<Pikka>differentiates them as a transport mode more
16:46<andythenorth>he
16:47<andythenorth>I find that they're differentiated by going on water :)
16:47<andythenorth>trains aren't so good at that
16:47<andythenorth>especially if you use a sensible bridge grf
16:47<@Alberth>but then you need more ships than wagons delivering the stuff to the dock
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16:51<andythenorth>night night
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17:19<Wolf01>'night
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17:49<@peter1138>ok, that's weird
17:49<@peter1138>my "less" has been playing up recently
17:49<NGC3982>http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/8452055838/in/photostream
17:49<@peter1138>scrolling to the top or bottom of a file made it lock up for a few seconds
17:49<NGC3982>So.
17:49<NGC3982>This is where i host my Ottd servers now
17:50<NGC3982>..And it's finally done.
17:50<Supercheese>Neatly tucked away where no one would suspect, eh?
17:50<NGC3982>I'm never going to touch it again.
17:50<@peter1138>so i just ran less -M -S instead, and it worked fine, showing the line and character counts as expected, no lock ups
17:50<@peter1138>and now it doesn't lock up without those paramters anymore... wtf?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i think i need glasses...
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i just read "that's less weird", and thought wtf?
17:54<Pikka>you broke breaking it
17:54<Pikka>it's always annoying when that happens
17:55<Supercheese>If it's broken, break it again until it's fixed
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20:38*Supercheese is templating steam locomotive sprites
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21:09<Supercheese>Hmm, I wonder if locos that are 9/8 long have some pixel-magic going on
21:11<Flygon>9/8 long?
21:11<Flygon>1.1 tiles long?
21:11<Flygon>Like the Big Boy?
21:12<Supercheese>I guess the tender is offset by an extra pixel or two
21:12<Supercheese>to compensate
21:14*Supercheese is listening to Legend of Zelda dubstep
21:15-!-ST2 is now known as xT2
21:29*Supercheese is done templating steamers
21:30<Flygon>Supercheese: Can't a train be 3 articulated parts?
21:30<Flygon>Ultimately, the best solution is to make Locomotives and Tenders be seperate
21:31<Flygon>As in, seperately purchasable
21:31<Flygon>And then implement range limits on locomotives based on fuel consumption (and in the case of steam, Water)
21:31<Flygon>You can see where I am going with this :B
21:31-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
21:31<Supercheese>Range limits on locos? Do not want
21:32<Flygon>Well
21:32<Flygon>It's just bugged me
21:33<Flygon>How I could run a loco for across half the map, and not need to carry on water
21:33<Flygon>Particulary noticable on bigger maps
21:33<Supercheese>You can always build intermediate depots and force trains to "refuel" at them
21:33<Flygon>Could make 'condensors' attractive :P
21:33<Supercheese>DWE set even has nice water towers
21:33<Supercheese>and fueling stations
21:33<Flygon>Eh, I'm a stickler for gameplay functions :p
21:33<Supercheese>should remain optional eyecandy, IMO
21:34<Supercheese>no need to force the issue via restrictions
21:34<Flygon>Either way, it could make the detact-from-carriages function more useful
21:34<Supercheese>ugh, I hated that feature in NARS
21:34<Supercheese>killed my loco power :(
21:34<Flygon>And I imagine the whole thing would be set per-GRF anyway
21:35<Flygon>And most GRF authors implement the ability to disable extra functions anyway
21:35<Supercheese>I try to run TurboTrains at max speed, but no, too many carriages and their horsepower drops to zero
21:35<Flygon>Can't attact locomotives to each other?
21:35<Supercheese>multiheaded Turbotrains just look silly
21:35<Flygon>That cheeses me off to no end
21:36<Flygon>Wasn't the Turbotrain max speed only attained in trail runs anyway?
21:36<Flygon>eg. it normally ran 160-200, not 230?
21:36<Supercheese>It was all before I was born anyway
21:37<Supercheese>as were most cool transportation things, like airships
21:37<Supercheese>although we've a new one of those being built
21:38<Supercheese>won't see commercial service for probably a decade or more, though :(
21:38<Flygon>A new airship or a replica Turbotrain?
21:38<Supercheese>airship
21:38<Flygon>Ah
21:38<Flygon>I'd like to see a replica Turbotrain
21:38<Supercheese>yeah, but airships are 9,001 times cooler :P
21:39<Flygon>True
21:39<Flygon>I'm surprised Airships didn't take off in Australia
21:39<Supercheese>same
21:39<Supercheese>http://www.ocregister.com/articles/airship-479053-aeroscraft-pasternak.html
21:39<Flygon>Would have made going to Perth and Darwin easy in the 1890s to 1910a
21:39<Supercheese>Well, California already had lots of huge hangars to build them in
21:39<Supercheese>I dunno if there are any hangars large enough down under
21:39<Flygon>But, instead, one of the worlds longest railway lines (and by extension, train tenders) was built
21:40<Flygon>Could always build a hanger
21:40<Supercheese>would just increase the already massive costs though :S
21:40<Supercheese>also: any helium in Australia?
21:40<Supercheese>I know we have lots here in Oklahoma
21:40<Supercheese>IIRC the US had a monopoly on helium for decades
21:40<Flygon>Don't think we have much helium
21:41<Flygon>Plenty of Hydrogen
21:41<Supercheese>problem is aviation regulations these days probably won't let anyone use hydrogen for passenger-carrying airships
21:41<Supercheese>too much bad press from nearly 100 years ago
21:41<Flygon>Dang
21:41<Flygon>It's potentially safe is used right
21:41<Supercheese>no kidding
21:42<Flygon>Just that aviation as a whole in the 1930s, and please excuse my language, was a shitstorm
21:42<Supercheese>the most successful passenger aircraft in the world at the time used hydrogen
21:42<Supercheese>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZ_127_Graf_Zeppelin
21:42<Flygon>It only used Hydrogen because America wouldn't sell Helium to Nazi's
21:42<Supercheese>Actually when LZ 127 was out, I don't think helium had caught on yet
21:43<Supercheese>Hindenburg, yes, just as you said
21:43<Flygon>I envisage giant airships being useful for freight, either way
21:43<Flygon>And also, as telephone towers
21:43<Flygon>Also, bushfire relief
21:44<Flygon>You never know when a giant freighter that can carry the water of 100 helicoptors may become useful as part of a fleet
21:44<Supercheese>World's first helium airship was apparently 1921
21:45<Flygon>So, yeah
21:45<Flygon>My 100% serious reason for wanting mass fleet of blimps in the real world is for the safety of the nation
21:45<Flygon>Because Bushfires are a real pain in the butt
21:46<Supercheese>they'd be very useful for firefighting
21:46<Supercheese>≈60 tons of water
21:46<Supercheese>or whatever other mixture
21:46<Flygon>Also, they transport large cargo loads to remote regions fairly well. A single blimp could service remote communities with a lot of food.
21:47<Supercheese>indeed, but the issue is could they do it cheaper than the alternatives
21:47<Supercheese>all about the bottom dollar
21:47<Flygon>Supercheese: Though, with airships intentionally going very close to fires, you'll want to use helium. And to prevent the water from being disappated before it even reaches the fire, you need to fly very low.
21:48<Flygon>This is why Helicoptors are usually used. Fantastic fire tolerance (probably because they have a fire dissapation system inbuilt)
21:49<Flygon>That, and they can hover over one spot... nothing but Blimps/Airships can also do that
21:50<Flygon>Supercheese: Given how much cargo you can transport in one blimp, wouldn't the effectiveness of using that over a larger fleet of fixed wing aircraft be advantagious? then again
21:50<Supercheese>or a Harrier (not that it's much use there) :P
21:50<Flygon>It IS less flexible...
21:50<Flygon>A Harrier would be terrible for fighting bushfires
21:50<Flygon>The heat would damage the engines and it's cargo capacity is awful
21:50<Supercheese>yep, but it technically can hover :P
21:51<Supercheese>terrrrrible waste of fuel to do so, but it can
21:51<Flygon>Yes, the heat would damage the engines as it hovers
21:51<Flygon>In fact, I'd also worry about lighting the fuel on fire
21:51<Supercheese>yeah
21:51<Flygon>At least Helicoptors can dissapate the heat and Airships are practically capable of airconditioning their fuel and keeping the actual engines turned off :p
21:52<Supercheese>with the convective currents around a fire, I'd want the engines on to stabilize the ship
21:53<Flygon>But yeah, basically, douse the fire, rescue people, go off to next fire
21:53<Supercheese>and some nice software to auto-course-correct
21:53<Flygon>Supercheese: That's rather true
21:53<Flygon>But I'd still trust a blimp over a helicoptor for raining on a fire within 100 meters of it for a longer time
21:54<Flygon>Though, it'd be deadly slow. Heat protecting that bugger will make it heavy.
21:54<Supercheese>I dunno about blimps, they're non-rigid
21:54<Supercheese>they might not take the heat well
21:54<Flygon>Er, Airship
21:54<Flygon>Sorry, yeah
21:54<Flygon>Rigid framed airships handle damage far better
21:55<Flygon>I've never liked non-rigid designs. Too dangerous.
21:55<Supercheese>although the one I'm talking about seems to have an outer covering of Mylar... I don't think that takes heat well :S
21:55<Flygon>Sure, they may be more portable, and easier to maintain, but... that's really the only advantages
21:56<Flygon>It's like choosing a Falcon instead of a Jeep when driving on bushtracks
21:56<Supercheese>or maybe Mylar is good for heat, and I'm thinking of something else
21:56<Flygon>Sure, you can do it, but would you really want to?
21:56*Supercheese shrugs
21:56<Flygon>Then again, I'm the guy that had an easier drive in a FWD Sedan than an AWD Station Wagon on the same dirt road...
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22:16<Supercheese>Back to my OTTD game, now year 1894
22:17<Supercheese>I ported this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15873) to OTTD, so I have airships all over :P
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22:21<Flygon>Totally need an OpenTTD Steampunk haulover GRF
22:21<Flygon>Starting from 1780
22:25<Supercheese>I may or may not be working on that :P
22:36<Flygon>Supercheese: I may or may not be excited :3
22:37<Supercheese>I have way too many projects going at once :S
22:50<__ln__>gooooooood morning
22:50<Supercheese>Vietnam
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22:53<Flygon>Good Morning USA, it's going to be a wonderful day!
22:53<Flygon>Except it's 2:52PM here
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23:16<Supercheese>Derp, trams can reverse at any time, even if there's no reversing-track...
23:16<Supercheese>two parallel tram tracks for miles, press reverse, boom tram reverses over the dirt O_o
23:17<Supercheese>that's one heck of a tram
---Logclosed Thu Feb 07 00:00:38 2013