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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-07

---Logopened Thu Feb 07 00:00:38 2013
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00:57<MNIM>off-road tram
00:57<MNIM>for when you absolutely positively need to move stuff somewhere
00:57<MNIM>rubber wheels and asphalt are for pussies!
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03:51<Supercheese>Poo, I thought road stops under bridges was already in trunk
03:51<Supercheese>peter1138, get on that :P
03:53<Supercheese>Oh, he's not on
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04:10<lugo>that new forums logo doesn't look to good (or is my browser messing up sth.?)
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04:46<Eddi|zuHause>what new forum logo?
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05:39<lugo>mmh, it's back to normal...
05:39<@peter1138>must be you, nothing changed for me
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08:12<andythenorth>@seen pikka
08:12<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 14 hours, 17 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Pikka> it's always annoying when that happens
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09:01<Flygon>@seen Flygon
09:01<@DorpsGek>Flygon: Flygon was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 8 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Flygon> Except it's 2:52PM here
09:01<Flygon>I've had my laughs for tonight
09:01<Flygon>Good night
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09:41<@peter1138>feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeling yourseeeeeeeeeeeelf
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09:45<@peter1138>the soft bulletin is awesome still
09:49<@Belugas>found it, checking it
09:49<@Belugas>mission of the day!
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11:57<oskari89>@seen DanMacK
11:57<@DorpsGek>oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 50 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey andy
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12:32<andythenorth>wot no pikka?
12:32<andythenorth>nvm :P
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13:12<frosch123>combo breaker
13:19<frosch123>hmm, i don't know how to respond in the onion thread other than that they are all wrong
13:19<frosch123>there are way too many wrong on the internet again :s
13:20<andythenorth>send them a picture
13:22<andythenorth>frosch123: everyone has different opinion in that thread afaict
13:22<andythenorth>are they *all* wrong? :)
13:23<frosch123>i did not bother reading them all
13:23<andythenorth>ho ho :)
13:24<frosch123>did you? :p
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13:25<andythenorth>hrm...kind of?
13:25<andythenorth>missing some lines here and there :P
13:27<NGC3982>You got to love reflexes.
13:28<NGC3982>Bought a new package of coffee. Opened it and put it on the kitchen table while i mended the press can.
13:28<NGC3982>Notices in the corner of my eye that it was about to fall
13:29<NGC3982>So, in a wonderful ninja move, by reflex i swing my arm cross the table and smash the package across the kitchen
13:29<NGC3982>Coffee everywhere.
13:29<@peter1138>i mean, oh shit
13:29<NGC3982>I can't decide if i should laugh of be grumpy about it.
13:29<NGC3982>Didn't even clean it up.
13:30<NGC3982>In rage.
13:30<@peter1138>i'd be mad
13:30<frosch123>make a picture
13:30<frosch123>and post it somewhere
13:30<frosch123>become an internet hype
13:34<NGC3982>The difference in physilogical actions are though, a fair bit interesting.
13:35<NGC3982>Catch a one-hander in a game of burnball? No problem. Getting your god damn key in a whole? Never.
13:37<andythenorth>MP GS later?
13:37<andythenorth>with a grf featuring too-many-trains
13:37*andythenorth seriously considers taking the pikka approach
13:37<frosch123>it's stupid
13:37<andythenorth>pikka's ? Or the too-many-vehicles?
13:38<frosch123>but well, i still have to reply :)
13:38<andythenorth>I started to feel the same though
13:38<andythenorth>I am trying to make FISH 2 fit together, and somehow it...doesn't
13:38<andythenorth>HEQS though...seems ok
13:39<andythenorth>I've been considering it, and making FISH 2 a tiny number of vehicles just doesn't work either
13:40<andythenorth>for a start, ships just need a range of capacities, no way to add/remove wagons to change cap.
13:40<andythenorth>but still...there are too many vehicles with questionable purpose
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24977 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2013-02-07 18:45:07 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 6 changes by Yoursnotmine
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13:59<fjb_mobile>Moin Alberth
13:59<fjb_mobile>Quak frosch123
13:59<frosch123>moin fjb :)
13:59<@Alberth>hi frosch123, and mobile fjb :)
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15:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24978 /trunk (6 files in 5 dirs) (2013-02-07 20:53:55 UTC)
15:54<@DorpsGek>-Update: some assorted documentation tidbits
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16:02<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r24979 tags/1.3.0-beta2/ (2013-02-07 21:01:54 UTC)
16:02<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.3.0-beta2
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16:39<LordAro>does the wiki seem a bit broken to anyone else?
16:43<+michi_cc>No? What are we supposed to see?
16:46<Rubidium>LordAro: the only thing that's broken is the Haiku page, since it isn't written in Haiku's
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16:52<LordAro>hmm. it's just blank apart from the title for me...
16:53<@peter1138>wfm even
16:54<@peter1138>heh, egcs
16:54<@peter1138>forgot about that
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17:33<@Terkhen>good night
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18:47<Bad_Brett>Hmm... I'm using a childsprite to apply smoke... would it be wise to use the hide_sprite property when the animation isn't playing?
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18:58<Supercheese>Not sure
18:59<Supercheese>if the sprite is invisible while the animation isn't playing, I dunno if there'd be a difference between that and hidesprite
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19:04<Bad_Brett>hmm... these animation mechanisms are really confusing
19:04<Supercheese>are you animating industries? objects?
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19:06<Bad_Brett>houses and industries right now
19:07<Supercheese>I've not worked on those
19:07<Supercheese>just objects
19:07*Supercheese learns what makefiles are
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19:08<Bad_Brett>is there any difference?
19:08<Bad_Brett>seems to be very simular
19:08<Bad_Brett>maybe you can help :)
19:09<Supercheese>whatcha tryin' ta do?
19:10<Bad_Brett>Just randomly start and stop the animation... basic stuff
19:13<Supercheese>I guess for that I'd just have a switch that checks extra_callback_info1 (random bits) and returns an animation frame if the random value is Foo
19:14<Supercheese>and then another switch that check animation_frame and tells the animation to advance from Foo to Bar, and stop when Bar is reached
19:14<Supercheese>then it'll remain stopped until the random is triggered again
19:14<Supercheese>in which case it goes back to Foo
19:15<Supercheese>sorry, I used variable names badly there
19:15<Supercheese>I said Foo twice
19:15<Supercheese>Foo_1 and Foo_2, if you will :P
19:15<Bad_Brett>yeah thanks
19:16*Supercheese does not understand makefiles
19:17<Bad_Brett>then the question is... when the animation isn't active... should I use an empty sprite or is there any way i can use hide_sprite?
19:18<Supercheese>hide_sprite: (anim_frame = stopped_frame)
19:18<Supercheese>it'll return 1 if the frame is the stopped frame
19:18<Supercheese>and zero for the other frames (which show the anim)
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19:19*Zuu hands Supercheese automake aka autohell :-p
19:20<Supercheese>Well, I've never used makefiles before venturing into the world of compiling OTTD
19:20<Supercheese>now I'm trying to make a bundle so I can distribute a compiled win32 binary of New_map_features
19:20<Supercheese>I'm conjecturing there's a way to have a makefile do that for me
19:20<Supercheese>but not sure how to do that
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19:21<Zuu>Well, as long as you don't have to write the makefile you don't need to really understand their syntax.
19:21<Supercheese>I have to call it, though
19:21<Supercheese>that's what I'm trying to figure out
19:21<Zuu>I never got the win32 bundle makefile to work in Cygwin, so I've made bundles manually or using a python script.
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19:22<Zuu>And I'm to found of cygwin to switch to msys and do not feel like having both of them in PATH.
19:23<Supercheese>mingw32-make: Nothing to be done for ''
19:23<Zuu>make --help
19:23<Zuu>look for the parameter to specify the bundle makefile.
19:23<Zuu>Makefile.bundle is probably the one you want and not
19:24<Zuu>If you don't have Makefile.bundle, then you need to generate it first.
19:24<Zuu>try ./configure
19:25<Zuu>There is also a vbs to generate project files, but it might be that it only chreates the MSVS project files but not the win32 bundle makefile.
19:26<Supercheese>well, what do I need to bundle manually so I can distribute the package?
19:26<Supercheese>Probably a wiki article on that...
19:26<Zuu>Most importantly you need to remember the license file + readme.
19:27<Zuu>Other than that its ./bin and copy ./objs/.../openttd.exe to ./bin
19:27<Supercheese>Makes sense
19:27<Bad_Brett>woah! stopped_frame exists? that will make things much easier
19:27<Supercheese>no no
19:27<Supercheese>insert your frame there
19:27<Zuu>You can also get a zip of a recent nightly to see what it include and compare to see if you forgot some file.
19:28<Supercheese>You have your anim run from some frame to some other frame and stop at the final frame
19:28<Supercheese>put the number of the stopped frame in that pseudocode
19:28<Bad_Brett>ah ok
19:30<Supercheese>Seems strange that the GPL is thrown in a file called COPYING, with no file extension
19:31<Supercheese>probably some carryover from a decades-old practice or whatnot
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19:34<Supercheese>.7z can conpress the bundle to 4.15 MB, whereas .zip only gets to 6.30 BM
19:34<Supercheese>I wonder if other exotic algorithms can do better...
19:35<Supercheese>Oh, LPAQ8 gets to 3.83 MB
19:35<Supercheese>almost half the size of .zip
19:36<Supercheese>of course, nobody has a decompressor for LPAQ8 :P
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19:37<Bad_Brett>yippiekayey! it works!
19:38<Bad_Brett>all thanks to supercheese!
19:38<Supercheese>(and the devs who wrote NML, of course :P )
19:40<Bad_Brett>um yeah... those guys :)
19:43<Supercheese>Ok, hopefully I did this bundle properly:
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19:48<Supercheese>So much for makefiles :S
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19:51<Bad_Brett>I just discovered your new objects
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19:51<Bad_Brett>quite awesome if you ask me
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19:52<Supercheese>thanks :) I figured I just had to port the seagulls for OTTD, and in the process had lots more ideas, so I figured an object set was in order
19:53<Supercheese>of course I am working on far too many projects at once, not to mention my university coursework :S
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19:55<Eddi|zuHause>university is overrated
19:56<Supercheese>and that's why you have to do it
19:56<Supercheese>people over-value it
19:56<Supercheese>esp. employers
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19:57<Eddi|zuHause>you know, we have a huge debate here over politicians and their doctor's degrees, after numerous cases of plagiarizing
19:59<Bad_Brett>no company has asked for my degree... i'ts quite depressing actually
19:59<Bad_Brett>cause now it feels like it was a waste of time
20:00<Supercheese>Well, we do a lot of preparation for the professional Engineer's exam
20:00<Supercheese>which you apparently must take if you want to be a proper Engineer
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>most cases it was in "talkative" sciences like politics, law, etc.
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>almost no cases of plagiarizing have become known in natural sciences
20:00<Supercheese>Mechanical Engineer, not locomotive engineer :P
20:01<Supercheese>although that would be cool
20:01<Supercheese>I'd rather be a pilot though, much faster
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20:18*Supercheese wonders if UKRS2, Av8, and the like will go open-source, but doubts it
20:19<Supercheese>after all, they have successors planned
20:19<Supercheese>oh wait, they're NFO, I wouldn't be able to do anything with the source anyway :P
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20:43<Bad_Brett>the seagulls... can ships pass under them?
20:44<Supercheese>Not directly under the tile they're placed on
20:44<Supercheese>seagulls take up one tile that becomes impassible to ships
20:45<Supercheese>they may fly over adjacent tiles, in which case ships can pass "under" them
20:45<Supercheese>but the whole "flying outside the tile" thing introduces glitches
20:46<Bad_Brett>tell me about it :P
20:46<Bad_Brett>i hate when my nice shadows suddenly disappear
20:46<Supercheese>I could just code them as ships, that way they woudlnt block shipping :P
20:47<Bad_Brett>can you make objects become auto-doze:able?
20:47<Supercheese>Like building something on them auto-removes them?
20:47<Supercheese>Yeah, there's a flag for that
20:48<Supercheese>I guess I didn't set it
20:48<Bad_Brett>can you make them appear randomly during the game?
20:48<Supercheese>If you want a version with that flag set I can do that
20:48<Supercheese>appearing randomly would require an addon Gamescript
20:48<Supercheese>which I have yet to code :P
20:49<Supercheese>also, I think Gamescripts need to support objects first, which I don't think they do
20:49<Bad_Brett>it's should be okay since they're mean to be used near the water
20:50<Supercheese>also: what do you think of the seagull sound effects? Too much, too frequent, not often enough, just right?
20:50<Bad_Brett>i've had the sound turned off... let me check
20:54<Supercheese>Yeah, I think I'll set the anything_remove flag for some objects
20:54<Supercheese>small rocks, for example
20:54<Supercheese>default rocks anything removes, I should keep that consistent
20:55<Bad_Brett>i think the sound effects are good... i added like 15 of them and it's still not that disturbing :P
20:55<Supercheese>Good, I was hoping I had the randomness adjusted well enough
20:56<Bad_Brett>when i see this...
20:56<Supercheese>I had to decrease the probability of sfx-generation so much :P
20:56<Bad_Brett>i realise that openttd deserves a more advanced map editor that can handle these things
20:56<Supercheese>Gamescripts can do a lot of neat stuff with the map, I think
20:57<Supercheese>and the expanded scenario format coming Sometimeā„¢ should be helpful too
20:58<Supercheese>Which objects should have the anything_remove flag set? Seagulls too?
20:58<Bad_Brett>yeah, why not?
20:59<Bad_Brett>it would be weird if they could be used as obstacles :P
20:59<Supercheese>They already can in multiplayer
20:59<Supercheese>Other companies can't remove other companies' objects, IIRC
20:59<Supercheese>the anything_remove flag only applies to owner company
21:00<Supercheese>that's why I included the parameter to have them only buildable in Scenario editor
21:01<Supercheese>although there's not much difference between these objects and owned land...
21:01<Supercheese>might as well set the flag, make it easier :)
21:01<Bad_Brett>the name of the grf could be Supercheese' Birdemic - Shock and Terror :P
21:01<Supercheese>Alfred Hitchcock all over again O_o
21:01<Supercheese>btw I used to live a few miles from where they filmed The Birds
21:01<Supercheese>Bodega Bay
21:02<Supercheese>was before my time, though
21:02<Bad_Brett>oh... so that's where you get your inspiration from?
21:02<Supercheese>No, I was inspired by other computer games of the 1990s :P
21:02<Supercheese>Isometric <3
21:02<Supercheese>(well, dimetric, close enough)
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21:03<Bad_Brett>yeah those were the days
21:04<Supercheese>I'll keep the shipwreck non-auto-remove
21:05<Supercheese>don't want to accidentally bulldoze some unsuspecting divers :P
21:08<Supercheese>I should code a circling shark. Gotta add the music, too: dun dun..... dun dun....
21:09<Supercheese>matter of fact, think I even promised to code that on Simuscape forums
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21:20<Bad_Brett>hmmm... maybe i should OBJ_FLAG_ANYTHING_REMOVE on indian villages... because that's basically what happened :p
21:23<Bad_Brett>though it might be politically incorrect
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22:47<Flygon>Bad_Brett: It seems more profitable to just run a railway to the villages and build a station
22:47<Flygon>Because apperantly in OpenTTD, everyone uses the same currency
23:20<__ln__>GOOD MOR/EVENING
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23:33<Flygon>__ln__: HYVAA HUOMENTA/YOTA
23:33<Flygon>Or something like that
23:33<__ln__>except for the missing umlauts, precisely like that
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 08 00:00:39 2013