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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-12

---Logopened Tue Feb 12 00:00:29 2013
---Daychanged Tue Feb 12 2013
00:00*Supercheese is being lazy and not working on his grfs
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01:21<Flygon>http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3202/2344841313_a4f889413a_b.jpg ...
01:21<Flygon>No words can describe this
01:22<Supercheese>How about: "Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
01:22<Supercheese>Coming from the top down, anyway
01:23<DDR>Tunnels... nah, they're expensive.
01:23<Flygon>It's apperantly a runaway train arrester
01:23<DDR>Oh, hunh.
01:24<DDR>Supercheese was right. :P
01:25<Supercheese>:D
01:27<__ln__>Flygon: if it is, why does it continue over the hill instead of ending at the top?
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01:29<Flygon>__ln__: It doubles as a horsepower tester?
01:38<DDR>__ln__: If the track on the other side is higher than the track on this side, you'd still have a breaking effect.
01:39<DDR>for example, if it was a plateau on the other side, you'd have that hill slowing down every single car in the train, not just the cars at the head of the train.
01:40<__ln__>that's true
01:58<Nat_aS>it's also a sick jump
01:58<Nat_aS>like gun the throttle all the way up
01:58<Nat_aS>and go over it at full speed
01:58<Nat_aS>catch some air
01:58<Supercheese>I doubt that's possible, it's quite a grade
01:58<Nat_aS>lol
01:58<Supercheese>a really light, really powerful engine perhaps
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02:39<Flygon>Supercheese: A DMU?
02:39<Flygon>Or, lighter, an EMU
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02:39<Flygon>It'll have the tractive effort required
02:42<Supercheese>Hah, I love this game, largest city is 29,000 pop, next largest is 4,000
02:43<Supercheese>it keeps growing, too
02:43<Flygon>Urg, good luck
02:43<Flygon>When it reaches 100k+
02:43<Flygon>The city is unmanagable
02:44<Supercheese>the subways will be able to handle the traffic
02:44<Flygon>Ah
02:44<Flygon>When my cities are that big
02:44<Flygon>I have tram networks
02:44<Flygon>Why? Because it's an early city that I couldn't afford subways for
02:44<Flygon>eg. start of the game
02:44<Supercheese>I made a subway grf to help deal with situations just like these :)
02:44<Flygon>Subway GRF still requires demolishing buildings
02:45<Supercheese>Nope
02:45<Supercheese>Just roads
02:45<Flygon>Wait, huh?
02:45<Supercheese>which already exist
02:45<Flygon>Can cars still drive on those roads?
02:45<Supercheese>Yes, but they will conflict with the subways
02:45<Flygon>Wait, are you talking about standard rail? Or a repurposed road GRF?
02:45<Flygon>And what do you mean by 'conflict'?
02:45<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=62672
02:45<Flygon>Thanks
02:46<Supercheese>all detailed in that post
02:46<Flygon>Ahh
02:46<Flygon>I see
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02:46<Supercheese>they are coded as [beneath-the-]road vehicles
02:47<Flygon>Sorry for the confusion
02:47<Supercheese>Oh whew, my game hung for ~6 seconds when pulling up the save menu, I was afraid it was going to crash, fortunately not
02:48<Supercheese>wonder why it froze...
02:48<Supercheese>I am running a patchpack, probably that
02:58<Supercheese>Wellp
02:58<Supercheese>I think this game is about 'done'
02:58<Supercheese>All towns connected, all industries connected, all primary industries supplied (FIRS supplies)
02:58<Supercheese>no huge cargo buildups
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03:00<Supercheese>Salve, andy
03:00<andythenorth>hi hi
03:00<Supercheese>FIRS basic is too basic
03:00<Supercheese>I think this game is about 'done'
03:00<andythenorth>orly?
03:00<Supercheese>All towns connected, all industries connected, all primary industries supplied
03:00<Supercheese>no huge cargo buildups
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03:00<andythenorth>try it with a cargo goal
03:00<Supercheese>Yeah
03:01<Supercheese>I just wanted to get a good game in, testing some grfs, FIRS included :)
03:01<Supercheese>problem is now there's really nothing else to do
03:01<Supercheese>fund new industries I guess
03:01<Supercheese>or newgame time
03:01<andythenorth>basic has ~19 industries
03:01<andythenorth>full FIRS is 49
03:02<andythenorth>there's room in the middle for more economies
03:02<andythenorth>middle ground :P
03:02<andythenorth>middle of the road :P
03:02<andythenorth>middling :P
03:02<Supercheese>I'd have gotten away with it if it weren't for you middling kids
03:06*MNIM takes off Supercheese's mask
03:06<MNIM>OMG!
03:06<MNIM>it's the lawnkeeper!
03:06<Supercheese>I'll get you next time... and your doggy too!
03:07*MNIM barks for scoobysnacks
03:08<MNIM>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFSLFBAJdBI
03:13<Supercheese>"Town grows every 1 day"
03:13<Supercheese>whooboy
03:14<Pikka>good moaning andythenorth
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03:17<andythenorth>bonsoir Pikka chops
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03:20<Supercheese>Huzzah, the 2-6-2 Prairie
03:20<Supercheese>Nice upgrade to 0-6-0 Goods
03:24<Pikka>is this a good time to be messing around with vehicle sprite offsets do you think? D:
03:24<Pikka>I decided maybe the | train sprites could move up a couple of pixels :)
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03:29<andythenorth>as long as you know what you're doing :
03:29<andythenorth>:P
03:29*andythenorth hates offsets
03:30<Pikka>http://www.pikkarail.com/junk/scobbles.png
03:31<Pikka>not seen in this picture: any | trains :]
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03:31<Pikka>it's only a couple of pixels anyway, no-one will notice.
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03:39<@peter1138>wut
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03:42<andythenorth>Pikka: u can haz new industry graphics? o_O
03:42<andythenorth>iz brickwx?
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04:10<Pikka>that is my gasworks/early power station
04:10<Pikka>but I'm going to redo it
04:10<Pikka>less TTD-ish
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04:21<andythenorth>Pikka chu, it's not very good, but unused FIRS sprite: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/0eb6f59c36d2/graphics_sources/incinerator/incinerator.png
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04:22<Pikka>thanks, not really the style I think I'm aiming for though (neither are the current sprites)
04:23<Pikka>going for a much less noisy and busy style than default TTD I think, ala 10CC
04:26<andythenorth>orly :)
04:26<andythenorth>toon render :P
04:27<andythenorth>will you redraw the houses as well? o_O
04:27<andythenorth>eh?
04:28<andythenorth>there are a few people around the forums that don't know what a troll is
04:28<andythenorth>any disagreement is labelled as trolling
04:28<andythenorth>how dumb
04:29<andythenorth>or perhaps....they are the real trolls, and I am falling for it :)
04:29<MNIM>they see me trolling, they hating?
04:32<@planetmaker>moin
04:32<Pikka>moin planetmaker
04:32<Pikka>yes, I will redraw the houses as well
04:33<Pikka>TaI unlazy edition
04:34<andythenorth>got a name for this style?
04:34<andythenorth>10CC?
04:34<andythenorth>what would a 10CC ship look like? o_O
04:35<Pikka>dunno
04:35<Pikka>have more of an idea when I've drawn more than two trains :P
04:35<andythenorth> ho ho
04:36*andythenorth bbl
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04:39<Supercheese>'night
04:39<Supercheese>valete omnes
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04:48<Flygon>Hmmm
04:48<Flygon>Civilization II: As it turns out, you can wipe out a powerful civilization so fast, it literally doesn't register on the powergraph
04:48<Flygon>Aint unusual things fun? :B
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>sure, a few tanks and howitzers, and you can cover a whole continent in one turn...
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>assuming it has railways
04:55<Flygon>Yeah, was lucky enough to have railways
04:55<Flygon>But Howitzers lack the move needed
04:55<Flygon>Bombers + Tanks ftw
04:55<Eddi|zuHause>i rarely used bombers
04:56<Eddi|zuHause>stealth fighters can do way more damage
04:59<Flygon>You'd be surprised
04:59<Flygon>Cheap to build
04:59<Flygon>Enmasse
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05:00<@planetmaker>expensive to maintain in certain government forms, Flygon ;-)
05:00<Flygon>I was Demo
05:00<Flygon>But forced to Fundie
05:00<Flygon>Nearly killed my spacerace
05:00<Flygon>But I got Fusion Power JUST in time
05:01<Eddi|zuHause>i never do fundamentalism
05:02<Flygon>I do it in cases where "%&^# the senate"
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05:03<Eddi|zuHause>i barely remember how annoying the senate actually was
05:05<Flygon>Eddi: it overrides your decision 50% of the time
05:05<Flygon>I had the UN. So it was just 25%
05:05<Flygon>...which was still TERRIBLE
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>there were times where it just refused war, and other times where declaring war caused anarchy, right?
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05:08<Eddi|zuHause>i miss the whole revolution/discontinuous cultural development in civ5... everything neatly builds up on the previous culture...
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>the world did not work like that
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05:16<Flygon>Eddi: Well. Forcing war can cause anarchy, yes.
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06:23<Eddi|zuHause>"The Zombie Apocalypse has begun in Montana"
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07:26<Juicy>hey
07:27<Juicy>Everybody afk ?
07:28<Juicy>i guess .. well , ill just leave my question here then .. Okay , im wondering , how do i change the end year for my server ? been googleing , but with no luck . Thanks in advance
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>so what have you tried so far?
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07:29<Juicy>Nothing . haven't tried anything really , haven't been able to find anything on the subject
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>then you should probably look at openttd.cfg (while the server is not running)
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>or the "list_settings" command (while the server is running)
07:30<Juicy>alright , will do so . thanks :)
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07:31<Eddi|zuHause>it'd be something like "restart_year" or so
07:31<Juicy>cool , ill look into thanks . thanks a bunch :)
07:38<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you giant troll you :)
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07:38<Eddi|zuHause>NOWAI
07:39<andythenorth>is all argument now going to be labelled 'trolling'
07:39<andythenorth>?
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07:54<@planetmaker>both Eddi|zuHause and Pikka sometimes have a tendency to a brevity in their answers which belies the reasoning which went into it ;-)
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>ok... looks like empty bottles standig on my computer act as resonance body...
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08:32<andythenorth>hmm
08:32<andythenorth>so
08:33<andythenorth>new repo for Squid? Or just branch old FISH 2 and continue Squid in the same repo?
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08:36<@planetmaker>new repo
08:37<@planetmaker>new newgrf = new repo
08:37<andythenorth>k thanks
08:37<@planetmaker>I still don't get why you abandon FISH though. It seems to cater for the shipping needs one might have
08:38<@planetmaker>For more than I have in a single game. But for all which I have in different games
08:38<andythenorth>mostly because I don't like it
08:38<andythenorth>FISH 2 smells
08:38<andythenorth>it's not worse than FISH, not better
08:39<andythenorth>herp, it *is* worse than FISH :P
08:39*andythenorth should learn to type
08:39<@planetmaker>make klipfisk from it :D
08:39<andythenorth>Salt Fish?
08:39<@planetmaker>yeah :D
08:39<andythenorth>looks awesome
08:39<@planetmaker>stops the fish becoming smelly :-)
08:39<andythenorth>I considered calling it SALT
08:40<andythenorth>but Squid is Calimari
08:40<@planetmaker>squid is the nicer name for it ^
08:40<andythenorth>and it's CalimariTime
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08:40<andythenorth>blame pikka for that pun ^
08:41*planetmaker didn't get that pun though
08:41<andythenorth>Cali Maritime
08:41<@planetmaker>:-)
08:41<andythenorth>what state should I leave FISH repo in?
08:41<andythenorth>feel like I should roll it back to last working state of FISH 2
08:42<andythenorth>instead of hacked around to become Squid
08:42<andythenorth>but then....who's going to ever care? o_O
08:42<@planetmaker>leave it as-is
08:42<andythenorth>I'll made a copy of the web database that drives the ships, before I hacked it around
08:42<andythenorth>I'll / I did
08:42*andythenorth really has typing issues
08:43<@peter1138>hi
08:43<@planetmaker>it's a vcs... any version is accessible, also non-head. And one can easily create new heads. Later. If ever
08:44<andythenorth>hi peter1138
08:45<@peter1138>i never did my secret project
08:45<Bad_Brett>good afternoon
08:46<andythenorth>planetmaker: once again I forget how to add a repo to devzone, sorry :(
08:46<andythenorth>always the identifier trips me up
08:46<andythenorth>url
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08:48<@planetmaker>andythenorth, create project. Make sure you have checked the 'repository' module upon creation. Just wait a few minutes and it'll be auto-created for you
08:49<@planetmaker>then clone that empty repo for most convenience and start with it
08:50<@planetmaker>choose a sensible identifier, i.e. squid in your case. That'll be the URL then, too
08:50<@planetmaker>like that :D
08:51<@planetmaker>you... probably should have added yourself as manager though :-)
08:52<andythenorth>hmm :)
08:52<andythenorth>k biab
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09:02<@peter1138>WHOLE LOTTA LOVE
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09:36<@Belugas>hello
09:38<Bad_Brett>is anyone here good at positioning childsprites? while the x-pos makes perfect sense, the y-pos seems somewhat random
09:38<Bad_Brett>hello Belugas
09:38<@peter1138>neither are random :S
09:39<Bad_Brett>I made two different houses, using the exact same sprites and offsets, and yet the childsprites are in different places
09:39<Bad_Brett>it's really confusing
09:40<Bad_Brett>i spend ~10 hours yesterday trying to understand what I did wrong
09:40<@Belugas>hello Bad_Brett :)
09:41<Bad_Brett>I did this picture yesterday to try to understand what's going on... but to no avail
09:41<Bad_Brett>http://www.badbrett.se/childsprites.png
09:43<Bad_Brett>the documentation suggests that the y-offset of the childsprite should be the distance from the top of the parent, but that doesn't seem to be the case
09:49<Bad_Brett>I also did an experiment... I changed the y-offs of the parent from -100 to -200... and the childsprite moved _8_ pixels.
09:50<Bad_Brett>if the position is relative to the parent sprite, shouldn't the childsprite move 100 pixels as well?
09:51<Bad_Brett>something really weird is going on... i'll clear the cache and see if it makes a difference
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09:54<Katve>Does somebody know why there are no release announcement on the TT-Forums for 1.3.0-beta2 ?
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09:59<Bad_Brett>ok, so i removed all switches and now it works properly... guess i just have to find the source
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10:00<@planetmaker>Katve, simply not yet written... it's on the agenda, though
10:02<Bad_Brett>ok... now this is getting REALLY weird
10:03<Katve>planetmaker ok
10:04<@planetmaker>of course you can get the changelog... http://binaries.openttd.org/releases/1.3.0-beta2/changelog.txt
10:05<Bad_Brett>the childsprite changes position when I add more zoom levels... how can the z0 sprites be affected by the the z1 sprites?
10:06<Katve>no thats not the point of course I read it while downloading, but I didnt notice whole update and according to the Openttd.org it is released 7.2.13 and I noticed it only by going to multiplayer and servers not matching
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10:27<@peter1138>got some coffee called java jampit
10:27<@peter1138>i misread it
10:27<@peter1138>java armpit :S
10:28<@planetmaker>iew... sounds tasty :D
10:29<@peter1138>hehe
10:29<@peter1138>it is actually
10:31<@Belugas>jampit.. i guess you are growing an obsession ;)
10:32<@peter1138>since getting a machine... yeah
10:32<@Belugas>:)
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10:43<@peter1138>ooooh coffee done
10:50<Pinkbeast>coffee, there's an idea.
10:57<@peter1138>coffee's not just an idea. it's THE LAW
10:58<V453000>wtf is !! BK tunnels?
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11:00<@Alberth>V453000: it is a not so useful newgrf? :)
11:00<V453000>well yeah but what is it for then :d
11:00<@peter1138>i used it in every game
11:00<@peter1138>V453000, can you read?
11:01<V453000>oh I see now
11:01<V453000>so it is just a poster which informs people that they should go download it to simuscape?
11:01<V453000>that is a joke
11:02<@peter1138>i think so
11:02<V453000>unbelievable
11:02<@planetmaker>V453000, http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5470
11:02<@planetmaker>ups... wrong issue
11:03<@planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5469
11:03<V453000>:D my first thoughts
11:04<V453000>just after I discovered it is just bullshit anyway
11:04<@planetmaker>didn't take 24h for that issue to be submitted to our bug tracker
11:04<@peter1138>surely you mean to say a useful service to discover grf you did not know about
11:05<V453000>honestly there should be some rule about that
11:05<@planetmaker>which?
11:05<@planetmaker>(honest question)
11:06<V453000>about uploading newGRFs which do nothing on purpose
11:06<V453000>how is linking people to simuscape any helpful
11:06<V453000>I consider that simply advertisement spam
11:06<V453000>you could also put there an informational newgrf about buying viagra or whatnot
11:07<@planetmaker>:D :D
11:07<@peter1138>i don't believe the T&Cs deal with spam
11:08<@peter1138>there's also the issue of precedent
11:08<@planetmaker>TOS didn't need to deal with it... so far. What precedent?
11:08<@peter1138>otoh, we deal with issues when notified, so who knows
11:08<@peter1138>the "we don't moderate it" rule
11:09<V453000>so far; this is a pretty large exception and first of its kind that I know of
11:11<Bad_Brett>Is someone willing to take a look at this? The file contains a grf (and nml code of course) with two identical houses (same sprites/offsets/parameters). The only difference is that House 1 only have graphics for the 4x zoom level, while House 2 have graphics for all zoom levels. Yet the position of the z0 childsprites are directly affected by this.
11:11<Bad_Brett>www.badbrett.se/goldrush/ChildspriteChaos.zip
11:13<Bad_Brett>I included nmlc to make it easier to compile... if this is unacceptable I'll upload another version
11:13<@planetmaker>is the lang file included (often forgotten)?
11:14<@planetmaker>nmlc surely is not needed and just bloats it
11:14<@planetmaker>depending on whether you shipped its license you might not be allowed to ship it that way
11:17<Bad_Brett>the lang is included
11:17<Bad_Brett>i'll remove nmlc
11:18<andythenorth>I don't really see the problem with BK tunnels grf
11:18<andythenorth>we don't moderate bananas
11:18<@planetmaker>so far people behaved well and didn't abuse the service
11:19<andythenorth>but there's nothing objectively wrong with this newgrf
11:20<Bad_Brett>fixed it
11:20<@planetmaker>posted for the single purpose to advertize a 3rd party site without providing any content
11:20<@planetmaker>I could also post a viagra-advertizement newgrf. Nothing wrong with it. Technically
11:21<V453000>correct me if I am wrong but I think the purpose of bananas is to provide newGRFs which the game can find, and this - let me call it spam - clearly doesnt do that
11:21<@planetmaker>(I like the viagra analogy, V453000 :D )
11:21<V453000>if I have real BK tunnels 1.5 in my savegame, it wont work anyway
11:21<V453000>:)
11:25<@peter1138>V453000, perhaps complain to whoever uploaded it
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11:25<V453000>searching on simuscape, but the excellent site structure prevents me from finding it so far
11:25<@peter1138>yup
11:26<@peter1138>downloaded 839 times
11:26<@peter1138>i guess people don't read, who'da thunk it
11:26<V453000>=D You do not have the required permissions to read topics within this forum.
11:26<V453000>solved
11:26<V453000>and yes I am logged in
11:27<@peter1138>heh
11:27<@peter1138>can't read even with a login? hah
11:27<V453000>hah > heh? :P
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11:30<@planetmaker>technically sorting usually determines that heh? > hah
11:34<@peter1138>see-eee-eee-eee emily play
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11:40<Bad_Brett>seriously, what's going on? how can an extra alternative_sprites block for the z5 zoom level affect the offsets for the z0 level? it doesn't make any sense
11:42<@planetmaker>I'll try to have a look when I'm home, Bad_Brett. But that'll take an hour at least
11:42<Bad_Brett>thanks a lot... most appreciated :)
11:46<@peter1138>iirc sprite pixel offsets have to match
11:48<andythenorth>do I have to register on another site to get BK Tunnels?
11:49<V453000>yes on simuscape, but I have registered there and dont seem to be able to get to BK tunnel thread
11:49<@peter1138>nouhttp://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32119
11:49<@peter1138>if you really wanted it
11:50<+michi_cc>Bad_Brett: If the dimensions and offsets of the different zoom levels don't scale to the same value, OTTD will adjust the offsets and pad the sprites. This usually doesn't matter, except for child sprites I guess.
11:50<+michi_cc>V453000: You didn't read the site rules and didn't make a post to the welcome thread? ;)
11:50<V453000>I did
11:51<andythenorth>so now we have a grf on bananas which is there to promote data capture by a third party service?
11:51<@peter1138>it's been there for days, i dunno ;p
11:52<Bad_Brett>michi_cc: Thanks... I suspected something like that, because the numbers didn't add up
11:52<andythenorth>simuscape requires an email to register?
11:52<+michi_cc>V453000: And yes, it is a bad precedent, but whatever we ("official" we) do, we're going to be the bad guys.
11:53<V453000>sure or you can re-code bananas to have an "advertisements" category :DDD
11:53<andythenorth>we could just do thing
11:53<andythenorth>nothing
11:53<@peter1138>just upload more more of your own grfs to get it off the list
11:53<+michi_cc>V453000: And just in case you do manage to post, the matching thread is http://www.simuscape.net/simutalk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=423.
11:54<andythenorth>seems a bit weird though, acting as a funnel to a third party data harvesting site
11:54<@peter1138>maybe r24983 has more meaning for you guys now?
11:54<V453000>that is ridiculous
11:54<V453000>uploading dummy newGRFs instead of real newGRFs is seriously wrong
11:55<Bad_Brett>i agree
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11:55<V453000>just stupid walking around and abusing bananas imo
11:55<@planetmaker>it would be more acceptable, if they used the same grfID
11:55<@planetmaker>as the newgrf which they advertize
11:56<@planetmaker>but of course no-one ever thought about actually talking... with the bad guys
11:56<@planetmaker>who make the game they mod
11:57<+michi_cc>planetmaker: They mod TTDPatch, OpenTTD is just an accident.
11:57<V453000>they are even different IDs?
11:57<V453000>I thought it is at least matching
11:57<@planetmaker>nope
11:57<@planetmaker>michi_cc, then the bananas additions are spam
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12:00<+michi_cc>It's not working anyway, as, if the simuscape download counters can be trusted, the linked file was only downloaded 5 times so far.
12:01<@planetmaker>The most annoying thing is they don't use the proper grfID. Using the proper grfID with action14 version=0 would allow the "real" grf to be shown only when available. This way it really is spam ingame for the newgrf lists
12:02<@planetmaker>something which needs filtering even when their approach works. Which is highly annoying
12:02<@peter1138>heh, and the radio is playing... beastie boys - sabotage
12:02<@planetmaker>:-)
12:04<@planetmaker>bbl
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12:13<V453000>two words, fuck simuscape
12:16<Bad_Brett>i don't get it... what's the point? surely less people will find their grf's that way, right?
12:20<V453000>I mean, if at least the website of the newGRF was the page with the actual download
12:20<V453000>but no it gets you to main page from where "find it, good luck"
12:20<V453000>but no
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12:23<Bad_Brett>i think it's a bit funny though
12:23<Bad_Brett>new tunnel entrances? really?
12:24<Bad_Brett>i ett thousands of people will register to get a chance to play with that
12:24<Bad_Brett>*bet
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12:41*andythenorth has done a bit of thinking
12:41<andythenorth>this BK grf thing is just 'meh'
12:42<andythenorth>let it be
12:42<andythenorth>not a thing to try and solve
12:44<@peter1138>wquite
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12:45<andythenorth>could amend the ToS and say things like 'no dependency on downloading things not in Bananas'
12:45<andythenorth>but really, mhe
12:45<V453000>exactly, BK thing is meh
12:45<V453000>but as he said explicitly, he will do it with many other newGRFs too
12:45<V453000>and that will be a massive mess
12:45<andythenorth>[shrug]
12:45<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, did using the scaled sizes for sprite solve your issue?
12:46<Bad_Brett>what does scaled sizes mean exactly?
12:47<V453000>I really think the ToS should be enhanced by an answer to this newly discovered hole it had
12:47<Bad_Brett>the z1 sprites are always about 1/2 the size of the z0 sprite... same with the offsets...
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12:48<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett, taking the sprite sizes of the normal zoom level, the sprite sizes of other zoom levels have to be scaled exactly (for the child sprites)
12:49<andythenorth>V453000: it's a can of legalistic worms
12:49<andythenorth>there are a hundred holes I could pick in any proposal you make
12:49<andythenorth>it's TMWFTLB by some measure
12:49<andythenorth>and will result in yet more drama
12:49<NGC3982>Evening.
12:49<V453000>well yes of course, but the other holes dont seem to hurt anyone atm
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12:58<Bad_Brett>planetmaker: some sprites have odd dimensions... such as 253x253
12:59<Bad_Brett>do you think this could cause the problem?
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12:59<Bad_Brett>because these numbers will round down when i make the smaller versions
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13:00<Bad_Brett>253->126->63->31->15->7
13:01<Bad_Brett>but if you go the other way:
13:01<Bad_Brett>7->14->28->56->112->224
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13:04<Bad_Brett>so... when I add the z5 sprite, the game expects that the z0 sprite to be 224 pixels high, when it's really 253 pixels high?
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13:05<Bad_Brett>so making sure that the z0 sprite has a number which can be divided by 2 five times should solve the problem?
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13:21<Bad_Brett>oh well... guess i have to modify my sprite splitter so that the sprites always have "good" dimensions
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13:25<+michi_cc>Bad_Brett: It's 253->127->64->32->16->8 as scaling down is done with rounding up and not rounding down.
13:26<Bad_Brett>well i was talking about my algorithm... my mistake :)
13:27<Bad_Brett>anyway... it illustrates the problem... i think you're right
13:27<+michi_cc>So of your z0 sprite is only 7 pixels, the game will either increase the offset or the width (depending on which side the pixel is missing) and pad the sprite. If it changes the offset, your child sprite moves.
13:28<Bad_Brett>yeah...
13:28<Bad_Brett>i will try to use sprites with "better" dimensions and see if it does the trick
13:28<+michi_cc>For child sprites the important thing is that the xoffs/yoffs chain scales properly, the width/height don't really matter.
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13:29<Bad_Brett>alright
13:30<Bad_Brett>i'll try it tonight
13:30<Bad_Brett>thanks
13:34<Bad_Brett>by the way, does this cause any other problems in the game or can i simply adjust the offsets of the childsprite to fix this issue?
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24989 /trunk/src/lang (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-12 18:46:26 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 53 changes by YsterVuis
13:46<@DorpsGek>danish - 4 changes by Elias
13:46<@DorpsGek>greek - 9 changes by Evropi
13:46<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 3 changes by yitzc
13:46<@DorpsGek>thai - 50 changes by khao9999
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14:11<andythenorth>hmm
14:11<andythenorth>is it time to learn python class inheritance?
14:12<Supercheese>Sounds like a caste system
14:12<Supercheese>You shall be of the same class as thy parent
14:12<Supercheese>Noble code, peasant code
14:12<Supercheese>:P
14:12<@planetmaker>:D
14:13<@Alberth>Python allows stepping outside castes then :)
14:17<@Alberth>if an object behaves as an instance of some class, it is an instance of that class, no matter where the object really comes from
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14:20<andythenorth>hmm 75km ropeway http://www.trainweb.org/italeritrea/tramway.htm
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14:21<@Alberth>who needs tracks when you can use rope :p
14:21<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:21<Wolf01>hi ho
14:22<Supercheese>aerial tramways for OTTD? isn't there a grf for that?
14:23<Supercheese>Swissfan project or so
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14:27<andythenorth>hmm
14:27<andythenorth>should I just call it FISH 2?
14:27*Supercheese would actually like aerial tramways in OTTD
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14:28<Supercheese>very eyecandy, and useful for steep slopes
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14:33<andythenorth>FISH (30CC Edition)
14:33<Supercheese>FEESH
14:33<andythenorth>making a whole new grf is lame
14:33<andythenorth>which is what you all said anyway
14:35<andythenorth>so you can all just be correct ;)
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14:36<Supercheese>Osteichthyes.grf
14:41<andythenorth>I should kill this web-based FISH configuration managing thingy
14:41<andythenorth>it's too much string
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14:43<andythenorth>naming convention for ships?
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14:43<andythenorth>FISH had maritime meterological area names
14:44<andythenorth>ah got one
14:44<andythenorth>you can guess what it is later
14:47*Alberth guesses a body of water
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15:12<andythenorth>it's oh so quiet
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15:20<Bad_Brett>sscchhhh sscchhhhh
15:31<Supercheese>I just broke OpenOffice
15:31<Supercheese>horribly
15:31<@peter1138>it does that
15:33<TinoDidriksen>Use LO instead.
15:34<Supercheese>which is?
15:36<TinoDidriksen>Libre Office
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15:39<Supercheese>Huh, I didn't even realize there was a fork
15:39*Supercheese has not been paying attention
15:39<@peter1138>Yeah, Oracle isn't all that FOSS-friendly
15:39<Supercheese>Yes, switching seems desirable
15:39*Supercheese downloads
15:39<@peter1138>the issue was resolved
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16:11<frosch123>night
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17:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: hydrofoils - remind me why you think later intro dates (and suggest some)?
17:24<andythenorth>(there are two, 106 pax and 240 pax)
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>because they are (IMHO) very overpowered
17:27-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>and i think the last suggestion was 2020-ish
17:32<andythenorth>k
17:32<andythenorth>ta
17:32<andythenorth>good night
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17:35<Eddi|zuHause>¿Qué tal?
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18:35<Wolf01>'night
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18:48<Bad_Brett>finally i managed to create a formula that seems to work...
18:49<Supercheese>sprite offsets are blah
18:49<Supercheese>anything that works for you, stick with it
18:50<Bad_Brett>abs(spriteheight-1)*2^5-childspriteposition
18:50<Bad_Brett>who would have guessed?
18:50<Supercheese>@______@
18:50<Bad_Brett>no i mean
18:51<Bad_Brett>abs(z5_spriteheight-1)*2^5-childspriteposition
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18:51<Bad_Brett>i want the past two nights back
18:53<Bad_Brett>but i must admit that it looks quite nice
18:57<Bad_Brett>i refuse to set any offsets manually! :P
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19:00*Supercheese sets all his offsets manually
19:04*Eddi|zuHause scripts all offsets
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19:12*FLHerne randomly picks offsets until they work :-(
19:13<FLHerne>I should really try figuring them out sometime :P
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>the key is having good templates
19:22*Supercheese often doesn't use templates
19:24<Bad_Brett>yep... especially if you're doing complex stuff
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19:26<Bad_Brett>for example, have fun splitting up the sprites in animations such as this one: http://www.badbrett.se/goldrush/whale2.gif
19:27<Supercheese>I'd just make that all one big animation
19:27<Supercheese>although it might span multiple tiles, which would be a pain
19:27<Bad_Brett>that might cause glitches though
19:28<Supercheese>if it ended up needing to be a 2x2 object...... blarg, yeah
19:28<Supercheese>I would not look forward to chopping those sprites up @_@
19:29<Bad_Brett>exactly... that's you write a simple script and let the computer do the work instead of you :)
19:29<Bad_Brett>*why
19:30<FLHerne>Bad_Brett: Are you planning to put that in OTTD!? :o
19:30<Bad_Brett>you bet
19:31<Bad_Brett>i got inspired while watching Whale Wars :D
19:31<FLHerne>But it looks ACTUALLY REALISTIC! And not pixelated or at a strange angle! And it's a WHALE!
19:32*FLHerne is quite startled by realistic-looking OTTD
19:34<Bad_Brett>it looks quite nice in-game
19:35<FLHerne>So do all your disturbingly convincing spritey things :-)
19:36<Bad_Brett>:D
19:36<Supercheese>like that conestoga wagon... :D
19:36<Supercheese>good stuff
19:39<Bad_Brett>thanks... i wonder if it will be fun to play with though... i may have to feed the oxen with steroids so they walk a bit faster :P
19:39<Supercheese>2x 'realistic' speeds should be fine
19:40<Supercheese>some of the eGRVTS horses get a bit silly though, running around approaching 20 mph :P
19:40<Bad_Brett>:D
19:41<Supercheese>the Wells Fargo coach must have been REALLY behind schedule to approach those speeds ;)
19:42<Bad_Brett>haha
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19:44<Supercheese>"A Conestoga wagon, pulled by a team of six draft horses, averaged 15 miles a day."
19:44<Supercheese>0.625 mph?
19:44<Bad_Brett>heh
19:44<Supercheese>Average ≠ instantaneous, of course
19:45<Bad_Brett>my idea is to make the rivers quite important
19:45<Supercheese>Steamboats galore
19:45<Supercheese>:D
19:46<Bad_Brett>exactly!
19:46<Bad_Brett>:D
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>cross the USA map with that :p
19:46<kormer>I played a US map starting at 1700 once and it was a blast running ships until 1830
19:46<Bad_Brett>that's great to hear
19:47<Supercheese>The only .grf with ships in the 1700s is the sailing ship grf, no?
19:47<kormer>Yes
19:47<Supercheese>Seems kinda of silly using full-rigged ships on rivers
19:47<Bad_Brett>guess i'll have to try it then
19:47<Supercheese>kind of*
19:47<kormer>Yes, that part wasn't too realistic.
19:47<Bad_Brett>i'm going to set a huge speed penalty on those
19:47<Supercheese>I'm not even sure what 18th-century riverboats would look like
19:48<kormer>There really weren't any, it would have mostly been mule-pulled barge traffic
19:49<Supercheese>"Fifteen miles on the Eerie Canal"... ♭
19:49<kormer>And almost all pre-steamboat mississippi river traffic was one way
19:49<Supercheese>or was it years
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>"Noch 20 Minuten bis Buffalo"
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>there was a movie on TV recently of 1920's berlin, and they had river/canal boats that were pushed venice-style with someone with a long pole on the boat
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>i think 1927
19:51<Bad_Brett>cool
19:51<Supercheese>Oh, venice boats
19:51<Supercheese>what are they caleed, gondolas?
19:51<FLHerne>We have nice punts here in Cambridge, but not big :P
19:51<Supercheese>called*
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>they were much larger boats than in venice
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0p96gdjHc <-- i think this is the movie
19:55<Supercheese>I love German, the compounding of adjectives onto nouns eliminates some of the ambiguity we have in English with adjectives
19:56<Supercheese>it also leads to some hilariously long words
19:57<Supercheese>just a few weeks ago, "Big gun debate". Is that a debate about big guns, or a big debate about guns?
19:58<Supercheese>You'd probably compound it in German to eliminate that ambiguity
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>there isn't really a lot of text in the movie :p
20:05<Supercheese>Text written on various things, walls/signs/etc
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i'd call it "große Waffendebatte" [big (gun debate)] vs. "Große-Waffen-Debatte" [(big gun) debate]
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20:06<Supercheese>Yep, there's the compounding
20:06<Supercheese>big Gundebate
20:06<Supercheese>big Fruittree
20:07<Supercheese>Hmm, I dunno why we can't theoretically have more compounding in English
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>just do it, let it catch on :)
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20:09<Supercheese>Heh, a tank engine running cab forward
20:09<Supercheese>Tankengine
20:11<Supercheese>Man, lots of men in the film seems to have the stereotypical Hitler-mustache ... :S
20:11<Supercheese>must have been popular
20:11<Supercheese>I dunno if there's a better term for it
20:12<Supercheese>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothbrush_moustache ; it seems
20:14<Supercheese>Wow, so much machinery
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>it was fairly popular, yes. this was before hitlers rise, though
20:16<Supercheese>Horse-drawn garbagetruck?
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20:28<Eddi|zuHause>what i find interesting is the pre-electrification S-Bahn
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>electric at that time was only the tram and the subway, the S-Bahn was electrified during the 30's
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>the boats come somewhen after the lunch break scenes
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>(the movie roughly follows the course of a day: morning commute, industrial shift start, commercial activities, lunch, afternoon shift, afternoon commute, leasure time, theater/culture, night
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>especially night recordings wre a brand new thing back then...
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21:35*Supercheese hates date restrictions on objects/stations
21:35<Supercheese>let me build this station, damnit
21:38<Supercheese>I'd rather have vehicles be the only things date-restricted, let everything else be build whenever
21:38<Supercheese>built*
21:40<Supercheese>rail/roadtypes being tied to vehicles, of course
21:44<Supercheese>Where do I go in the code to turn off the date check for station/object availability...
21:47<Supercheese>*available = false; --> *available = true;
21:47<Supercheese>perhaps
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22:07<Supercheese>Nope, that wasn't it
22:09<Supercheese>Fixed objects
22:14<Supercheese>ah, it's under rail_gui.cpp
22:16<Supercheese>I'm accumulating many personal modifications to the OTTD source :S
22:17<Supercheese>≈5 distinct mods I'll now apply to all future compiles
22:22<Supercheese>blaaah, still not working
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22:52<Supercheese>Scratch that, more mods
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 13 00:00:46 2013