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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-19

---Logopened Tue Feb 19 00:00:55 2013
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02:01<SpComb>definitively unimpossible
02:01<andythenorth>why must we keep inflation at all costs?
02:01<andythenorth>it's trivial to prove it's broken
02:03<Supercheese>censeo inflatio esse delendam
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02:10<Pikka>clearly the TTD inflation model is "realistic" though
02:10<Pikka>also not arguing is no fun
02:10<Supercheese>I like the inflation model, it's great
02:11<Supercheese>actually, I can't even pretend to like it
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02:15<Twofish>When I left yesterday you all were having the inflation model discussion... Still going on? :p
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02:18<Supercheese>I think everyone's in agreement it sucks
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02:21<Supercheese>How do FIRS fishing grounds production levels work? Random fluctuations?
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02:22<Supercheese>No change at all?
02:22<Supercheese>monthly_prod_change: return CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_NO_CHANGE;
02:23<Supercheese>seems so
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02:24<andythenorth>Supercheese: no changes
02:24<andythenorth>they just produce, constant
02:24<andythenorth>it's nice to have something simple
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02:36<Pikka>btw andy, add the Plozzowow Rootburger to BANDIT :)
02:36<andythenorth>I'll consider it
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02:36<Pikka>you will
02:38<Pikka>also here's more colours nailed to the mast:
02:40*Supercheese mostly renders his sprites
02:40<Supercheese>I haven't even paid attention to all that :S
02:41<Supercheese>I just throw models in Sketchup, activate a templated camera setting, and render 8 views
02:41<andythenorth>Pikka: I find your ideas intriguing, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
02:42<andythenorth>also the diagonals = better
02:44<Supercheese>Oh lord, fake subways have terrible diagonal shortening
02:45<Supercheese>10 px -> 8 px
02:46<Supercheese>although they're 100% black shadows
02:47<Supercheese>same silhouettes though
02:47<@peter1138>don't forget that originally wagons were ~28px, not 32px
02:47<Pikka>but they're actually equally shortened in the diagonals
02:47<Pikka>the wagon sides in the diagonal sprites are ~14px, not 16
02:48<Pikka>and the "correct" diagonal even of a 28px wagon is 20px :)
02:49<Supercheese>Soooo, hmm
02:49<Supercheese>how to fix
02:50<Supercheese>add some height I suppose
02:50<Pikka>with enormous difficulty, so we put up with it Supercheese :)
02:50<Supercheese>I mean with the sprites I have here
02:50<Supercheese>which I can actually try to fix
02:51<Supercheese>easy enough since they're monochrome :P
02:51<SpComb>"convert 8px of vertical information into 7px"
02:51<SpComb>madness, this pixel art
02:55<andythenorth>Pikka: one 10CC grf or several?
02:56<Pikka>one base set with the wagons, parameters, etc, then one for each set for the locomotives
02:57<Pikka>each "country" a seperate grf
02:57<Pikka>but most of it will be in the base set.. all the wagon graphics, all the sound effects, etc
02:58<Supercheese>can road vehicles be zero length?
02:58<Supercheese>or is 1 minimum length?
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03:01<Eddi|zuHause>\o/ snow
03:01<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: 1 is minimum
03:02<Supercheese>Hmm, how best to handle consist length changing via refit
03:02<@planetmaker>yes, indeed a few cm snow here again
03:02<Supercheese>currently I just have a lot of invisible dummy vehicles hanging off the end
03:02<andythenorth>Pikka: so all parameters (if any) in base set?
03:03<Supercheese>and they become active with refit
03:03<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: like in HEQS
03:03*andythenorth contemplates BANDIT
03:03<andythenorth>10 trucks per theme
03:03<Supercheese>that leads to strange things like when the vehicle has clearly left a tile, the invisible bits are still on the tile, and so you can't clear it
03:03<andythenorth>1 grf with parameters, or multple grfs?
03:03<andythenorth>multiple *
03:03<Supercheese>and likewise for corners
03:04<Supercheese>the vehicle has clearly negotiated the corner, but speed is still reduced because the invisible bits are still on the corner
03:04<@planetmaker>Supercheese, you need then to shorten the (technical) length of the visible vehicle so that its technical length + invisible parts have the length of the sprite
03:04<andythenorth>Supercheese: eddi worked out a packing scheme for HEQS
03:04<Supercheese>I would like to know this scheme :)
03:04<andythenorth>so shorten vehicles and pack them together, but the sprites overlap
03:04<andythenorth>he has ascii art somewhere :P
03:04<andythenorth>or it's in HEQS nfo
03:05<Supercheese>I understand the concept, but I do not understand nfo
03:05<Eddi|zuHause>it might be under
03:05<@planetmaker> is somewhat NML :D
03:05<Eddi|zuHause>too early :)
03:05<Supercheese>ascii to the max
03:06<Pikka>andy, I feel like trucks are less country-specific
03:06<Pikka>I'd put them all in one
03:06<andythenorth>also no base set for wagons and stuff
03:06<andythenorth>I am figuring one
03:06<andythenorth>only one place to set parameters etc
03:06<andythenorth>less forgetting to add a grf to the game
03:07<Supercheese>which thingies are assigned which lengths?
03:08<Supercheese>I think I get it
03:08<Supercheese>front vehicle is made 1/8 on short refits and stuff is packed in
03:08<Supercheese>until the next visible vehicle
03:08*Supercheese will try that
03:09<andythenorth>so for 4 wagons, the engine sprite is 'covering' 4 vehicles
03:09<Supercheese>Argh, have to redo all my switches
03:09<Supercheese>worth it though
03:09<andythenorth>templating is your friend :P
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03:15<andythenorth>Pikka: refittable capacity container ship. Does this smell of wee?
03:16<Pikka>what benefit does refitting to a smaller capacity give?
03:16<Pikka>lower running costs?
03:16<andythenorth>it's just that it's fast (30mph)
03:16<andythenorth>and the game has no useful part-load orders :P
03:16<Pikka>lower capacity = higher speed?
03:16<andythenorth>it basically just makes this ship much more useful than all the other ships :P
03:16<andythenorth>this is the one ship to rule them all
03:17<Pikka>30 is pretty fast
03:17<Pikka>I have trains that slow in 10cc
03:17<andythenorth>almost realistic
03:17<Pikka>well, one
03:17<Pikka>and it's a bit of a silly one :)
03:18<andythenorth>I think this ship smells of wee currently
03:18<Pikka>I think refittable capacity smells somewhat of wee, but that's just my o'pinyin
03:18<andythenorth>it's ok for log tug and livestock ship
03:18<andythenorth>but they only have one cargo
03:18<andythenorth>'just use a timetable' ?
03:19<andythenorth>which is how real container lines work
03:19<Supercheese>or conditional orders
03:19<Supercheese>problem is then the ship leaves and docks repeatedly, triggering the foghorn sound over and over :P
03:20<andythenorth>conditional orders smell of wee
03:20<andythenorth>how do you even make them?
03:20<Supercheese>they kind of do
03:20<andythenorth>they totally baffle me
03:20<Supercheese>they have very limited utility IMO
03:20<Supercheese>a timetable can do much the same thing
03:21<@planetmaker>oh, it can't
03:21<Supercheese>certainly not exactly the same thing
03:21<@planetmaker>you can balance trains between different routes with conditional orders
03:21<Supercheese>but for what I use them for they can
03:21<Supercheese>which is all of 1 thing :P
03:22<andythenorth>this is a bit less smell of wee
03:22<Supercheese>whoops, game crashed
03:22<Supercheese>patchpacks \o/
03:22<andythenorth>^^ could go faster at half load
03:22<@planetmaker> see there
03:23<Supercheese>refittable capacities: 450t, 450t, 900t
03:23<Supercheese>450t twice?
03:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so why again have two refit sizes?
03:24<andythenorth>I'm still not convinced
03:24<andythenorth>"it's useful and interesting" ?
03:25<@planetmaker>double capacity... should that not be a different ship? I cannot imagine in any way to send a ship to the docks and refit it to twice its capacity
03:26<andythenorth>container ship it's trivial
03:26<andythenorth>just load more or fewer containers
03:26<Supercheese>load fewer containers
03:26<@planetmaker>that's not refit, andythenorth
03:26<@planetmaker>that's just not full load
03:26<andythenorth>it's partial load
03:26<Pikka>just need x% load orders :P
03:26<andythenorth>that's what she said
03:26<Pikka>it is
03:27<andythenorth>I should lose the extra subtype string
03:28<andythenorth>and make it lower capacity
03:28<andythenorth>perhaps which?
03:28<Pikka>perhaps both
03:30<andythenorth>I should stop calling it container feeder too
03:30<andythenorth>it's just a small container ship
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03:31<@peter1138>oh you
03:32<andythenorth>FISH r1k :)
03:33<andythenorth>BANDIT is r553 and still has shipped absolutely nothing :(
03:33<andythenorth>CHIPS is r230 and is 'done'
03:33<andythenorth>how silly
03:33<Supercheese>Why does it matter?
03:33<andythenorth>it doesn't at all
03:34<andythenorth>I have a number fetish
03:34*Supercheese doesn't even use revision numbers or the devzone (yet, anyway)
03:34<andythenorth>no version control? :O
03:34<Supercheese>not yet
03:34<Supercheese>manual bundling and archival of releases
03:35<Supercheese>past that I cba
03:35<Supercheese>unless this newfangled Newgrf webtranslator is released on the devzone
03:35<Supercheese>then I'll definitely move my stuff there to take use of it :)
03:35<Supercheese>make use*
03:36*Supercheese wonders if Pikka uses version control
03:46<Supercheese>thanks for the help, good night folks
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04:11<Pikka>yes andy, I have your problem with graphics variation and auto-refitting :)
04:13<andythenorth>it smells
04:13<andythenorth>who you gonna call?
04:14<@peter1138>know what i hate?
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04:14<andythenorth>scorpions in your shoes?
04:14<Eddi|zuHause>In Theory (tm) you should be able to disable autorefit if it's not the same subtype
04:15<@peter1138>i hate it when my earphones cable gets caught on a door handle
04:15<andythenorth>peter1138: that is worse than scorpions
04:15<@peter1138>cos those tight-fit earphones HURT when they're wrenched out
04:15<Eddi|zuHause>get earphones without cables
04:15<@peter1138>i call them earplugs
04:15<Eddi|zuHause>we have the technology.
04:15<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: disabling autorefit is a terrible feature :)
04:16<andythenorth>it's imho a bug
04:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i mean partially, not generally
04:16<andythenorth>so do I
04:16<andythenorth>it creates invalid orders
04:17<andythenorth>it's odd that we have 7 pages of daily hate about iGRFs, but creating invalid orders is considered fine :(
04:17<Eddi|zuHause>i simply won't do subtypes
04:17<Eddi|zuHause>so i'm not going to research the problem
04:17<Pikka>all we need is
04:17<Pikka>persistent storage for vehicles
04:17<andythenorth>or love
04:18<Pikka>persistent storage would fix everything
04:18<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: "vehicle views" (superceding cargo subtypes)
04:18<andythenorth>that would probly work too
04:18<@peter1138>make it so
04:19<andythenorth>frosch has been threatening to do a spec
04:19<andythenorth>pikka what flavour is your autorefit trouble?
04:20<Pikka>bock scars
04:20<Eddi|zuHause>the idea was that you can choose for each vehicle whether you can do subtypes (backwards compatible), views that are fixed on construction, and views that can be changed later
04:20<Pikka>which may be reefings or stockcars also
04:20<@peter1138>not cheap ;(
04:20<andythenorth>woah not cheap
04:21<andythenorth>Pikka: reefers are stinky anyway
04:21<andythenorth>and cattle can go in boxcars
04:21<andythenorth>problem solved?
04:21<Pikka>so's your mum
04:21<Pikka>well, most people don't use autorefit
04:21<andythenorth>just don't support it
04:21<Eddi|zuHause>whereof i would use the "fixed" views, to alter the articulated callback
04:21<Pikka>so I guess if you want to use autorefit, you can just put up with graphics changing
04:21<Pikka>no, autorefit is okay
04:21<andythenorth>maybe we just refuse autorefit?
04:22<Pikka>maybe when you "autorefit" the train picks up different wagons in the station or something
04:22<Pikka>who knows?
04:22<andythenorth>I have to solve this for BANDIT
04:22<andythenorth>it's probably ok for trailing vehicles tbh
04:22<andythenorth>not ok for ships :P
04:23<andythenorth>autorefit = switching :)
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04:23<andythenorth>bandit articulated trucks wil do it
04:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: tug+barges just switches the barges?
04:24<andythenorth>barges all look same anyway ;)
04:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: container ships can refit to oil, but have much less capacity than similar sized dedicated tankers?
04:25<andythenorth>that's what I've done for general cargo ships yes
04:28<andythenorth>I think Squid is going to be ok
04:28<andythenorth>just need graphics :P
04:29<andythenorth>so when ship holds are done
04:29<andythenorth>I'll have to reinvent it again
04:29<andythenorth>are they done yet?
04:29<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause write a spec?
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>spec is easy, just use the articulated callback
04:30<Eddi|zuHause>difficult is the UI for refitting "parts" of articulated vehicles
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04:32<andythenorth>well only allow 2
04:32<andythenorth>then just put 2 in the screen
04:32<andythenorth>and make it work with autoreft
04:32<andythenorth>and autoreplace
04:32<andythenorth>and upgrade
04:32<andythenorth>and conditional orders
04:32<andythenorth>or just buy 2 ships :P
04:33*andythenorth -> work
04:33<Pikka>have fun
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04:36<Eddi|zuHause>how would "only 2" make anything easier?
04:42<@peter1138>09:30 < Eddi|zuHause> difficult is the UI for refitting "parts" of articulated vehicles
04:43<@peter1138>not really, you can already refit parts of vehicle chains
04:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes-ish, you can refit individual wagons, but not parts of wagons or roadvehicles
04:44<@peter1138>that just involves making the check for articulated parts optional
04:44<Eddi|zuHause>but at least with wagons you have a visiual distinction where one starts and the other one ends
04:45<@peter1138>well true
04:45<Eddi|zuHause>with ships (where all "articulated parts" would be at the same position) you don't have that
04:45<@peter1138>pfft, articualted ships is silly
04:47<Eddi|zuHause>possibly, but all the infrastructure is already there
04:47<@planetmaker>it would be easy to just show a boxed compartment-ization for ships and allow refitting those
04:47<@planetmaker>but... well
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>just have to use it in the "right" way
04:50<@peter1138>yeah, articulated ships
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04:54<Eddi|zuHause>looks like a sound concept :)
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04:57<Eddi|zuHause>so let me reiterate: ships use the articulated callback to define "holds". while on the map, all these articulated vehicles have the same position and orientation, which order they get drawn is pseudorandom. in the (refit) GUI, the ship is drawn in a way that visually shows the holds (GRF author's responsibility) and a "length"-ish property defines where to click on to select a hold
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04:59<Eddi|zuHause>so e.g. a 128 pixel (32 length-units) ship with 6 holds would get "length" of 8-4-4-4-4-8
05:01<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, if so, the box graphics should probably be openttd-defined for the articulated parts as in ^line
05:02<@planetmaker>and it need not really be different lengths, just different holds
05:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, my imagination was that the refit gui would show an "open" sliced version of the ship
05:04<Eddi|zuHause>you should be able to do that with var10 (extra_callback_info1)
05:05<__ln__>does anyone think many of Asimov's short stories are a bit weak with their plots?
05:06<Eddi|zuHause>i never read them
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05:15<__ln__>the plot in too many of them seems to be that a robot is malfunctioning and doing something crazy, and ultimately the reason is found out to be that the robot was interpreting a human's instructions too literally.
05:17<@planetmaker>I didn't have the impression that this kind of plot is the prevailing one in his short stories
05:17<@planetmaker>which anyway are best read as paraboles
05:19<jonty-comp>oh lord, using a separate thread for rendering on the android port does not work well :P
05:24<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there are a dozen star trek episodes with the same plot :)
05:27<Flygon>No Star Trek episode shall ever repeat Threshold
05:28<Flygon>__ln__: I read the stories. I get the feeling the plot wasn't the only draw.
05:30<@planetmaker>wonder what made you mention threshold... I just added tvscl, image_threshold(image_uppart - bkg_image)
05:30<@planetmaker> to my programme ;-)
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05:33<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly was threshold again?
05:35<@peter1138>jonty-comp, oh aye?
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>that was the year when everyone did mystery-scifi?
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>and none of them succeeded?
05:43<jonty-comp>peter1138: all the moving sprites have massive glitches over them
05:44<jonty-comp>i shall screenshot it!
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>jonty-comp: so you failed to lock the data during drawing?
05:49<jonty-comp>i'm not a developer, i just installed it :P
05:49<jonty-comp>and the option says "Separate thread for video, may increase FPS on some devices"
05:50<jonty-comp>so i thought "eh, this is a quad-core tegra, i'm sure it won't hurt"
05:50<jonty-comp>as it happens it runs fine without the option anyway
05:52<jonty-comp>SSL protocol error :o
05:52<jonty-comp>on my own dropbox link
05:53<jonty-comp>oh, it's okay now
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>jonty-comp: i
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>'m sure the port is "well tested"
05:54<jonty-comp>i wonder how much modification it has from the original source
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, ' is directly next to enter
05:55<jonty-comp>oh yeah, there's a github for it
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07:51<andythenorth>what are 'ports' in FIRS?
07:52<andythenorth>I've seen them though
07:52<andythenorth>I'm happy to help, but that question puzzles me :)
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08:19<copy>has anybody an idea why I can`t buy more than 75% of other companies?
08:19<@planetmaker>yup. You can't buy out companies in multiplayer
08:20<copy>ahh okay thanks. was a old saved game ...
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>i think it remembers if a company was started by a human, and won't allow buing that out in singleplayer either
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>unless it goes bankrupt
08:21<copy>okay thanks
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08:25<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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08:43<@peter1138>one for andythenorth
08:43<@peter1138>oh, he's not here
08:51<oskari89>peter1138: I also thought about sharing that link here :)
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09:00<Eddi|zuHause>there's currently a big controversy about deepening the line from the north sea to Hamburg for such beasts...
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>Hamburg is actually pretty far inland
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09:26<andythenorth>I disagree
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>who else would...
09:28<@peter1138>he's back
09:29<@peter1138>we were talking about the article you posted on the bbc
09:33<@peter1138>so i got these diamonds
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>you have Aces as well?
09:34<andythenorth>I like that article
09:34<andythenorth>also I have money in a bank account
09:34<andythenorth>but I need someone to unlock it
09:35<andythenorth>the best 419 scam I've seen
09:35<andythenorth>was claiming to be from the nigerian government agency that refunds victims of 419 scams
09:35<andythenorth>it was genius
09:37<Pinkbeast>That article about container ships is very odd
09:38<andythenorth>I should stop reading BBC News
09:38<andythenorth>I mostly just get angry or sad
09:38<andythenorth>let's read Twitter instead
09:38<Pinkbeast>"Bearing in mind that the carbon footprint of international shipping is roughly equivalent to that of aviation ... the prospect of these leviathans carving up the oceans in ever greater numbers is likely to be a source of concern for green consumers." er no because they're enormously more efficient that aviation
09:39<andythenorth>sailing ships
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09:59<Eddi|zuHause>sailing oceanliners... :)
10:02<@peter1138>Pinkbeast, everybody wants locally produced things, but nobody wants to pay the cost of that
10:02<@peter1138>therefore, shipping
10:02<@peter1138>therefore, ttd
10:03<@peter1138>(meanwhile, the beef i get locally is not horse)
10:03<andythenorth>therefore, fun
10:05<Pinkbeast>peter: errr I'm not sure what you're saying that I don't already know
10:05<@peter1138>just a random comment
10:06<@peter1138>i guess you only listen to sons or watch films or read books once? :p
10:07<@peter1138>fuck little tiny batteries that flip over :S
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>how dare you get beef without horse! it's The Hype right now
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>what do you think is environmentally cheaper? locally produced fruit that is stored in a refrigerated warehouse for half a year, or south african fruit that is shipped 10000km?
10:18<@peter1138>hence seasonal food
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12:15<andythenorth>any preferred solution for git-svn?
12:15<andythenorth>or svn-git?
12:16<blathijs>andythenorth: Are you suggesting git-svn is a problem?
12:16<blathijs>Or are you not referring to the piece of software called "git-svn" ?
12:16<andythenorth>it's a thing that needs to be done
12:16<andythenorth>there are a range of tools, git-svn is one
12:16<andythenorth>there are others :P
12:16<andythenorth>looking for recommendations
12:17<blathijs>To do what exactly?
12:17<Pinkbeast>Richard Kettlewell's "vcs" software;
12:18<andythenorth>in this case, move an svn repo into git whilst maintaining history
12:18<Pinkbeast>Oh, it's no use for that.
12:18<blathijs>andythenorth: I've used git-svn for that, though I don't know if it is the best tool (It is perfect for using git while the repo stays in svn, though)
12:19<+michi_cc>andythenorth: I haven't encountered any problems with the OTTD repo, but it of course doesn't use branching and merging much. Complicated repositories (especially if they don't follow the standard svn layout) will probably require more time to setup and some post conversion fixups.
12:20<+michi_cc>andythenorth: is a straight git-svn clone of the complete OTTD svn.
12:21<@planetmaker>andythenorth, hg-subversion :D
12:21<@planetmaker>hg convert works nicely. Just tested it last week
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12:28<@planetmaker>hi terjesc
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12:28<@planetmaker>hm... hi Terkhen
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12:35<@Terkhen>I should have dropped an additional h at the beginning of my nick
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13:31<tracerpt>hi all
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25025 /trunk/src/lang (15 files) (2013-02-19 18:46:18 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>dutch - 4 changes by habell
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 9 changes by mrtux
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_US - 4 changes by Rubidium
13:46<@DorpsGek>esperanto - 13 changes by Asakha
13:46<@DorpsGek>finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
13:46<@DorpsGek>french - 4 changes by glx
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 4 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@DorpsGek>greek - 1 changes by Evropi
13:46<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 4 changes by oklmernok
13:46<@DorpsGek>italian - 4 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 4 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 9 changes by Terkhen
13:46<@DorpsGek>swedish - 6 changes by Joel_A
13:46<@DorpsGek>vietnamese - 4 changes by nglekhoi
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13:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25026 trunk/src/lang/italian.txt (2013-02-19 18:52:15 UTC)
13:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix: language compile issue
13:53<@Alberth>hi :)
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14:07<Supercheese>it's like the movies, but real
14:08<Rubidium>Supercheese: losers...
14:08<Rubidium>others before have stolen at least 50% more
14:08<Rubidium>(in roughly the same manner)
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14:10<tracerpt>i'm sure they will make it look good in the movie :P
14:10<tracerpt>when it gets made
14:10<@peter1138>forums are boring now#
14:10<Supercheese>180 seconds of action
14:10<Supercheese>boring movie
14:10<@peter1138>any drama scheduled?
14:11<Supercheese>peter1138: try Youtube. Or tumblr. Or, well, anywhere really
14:11<Supercheese>Welcome to the Internet, it's mostly cats and drama.
14:11<@peter1138>no, they're crap
14:12<Rubidium>peter1138: maybe there's something behind some registration wall
14:12<tracerpt>i'm browsing thru them before posting some dumb questions
14:13<+michi_cc>peter1138: Write about our new grfcrawler search feature, maybe you manage to stir something up ;)
14:13<@peter1138>i don't know much about it
14:14<tracerpt>but i've seen loads of dumb questions so I may not need to post at all
14:14<Rubidium>peter1138: "I entered !! in the search terms, then I clicked on search external sites and it does not return anything. Have the OpenTTD devs removed the iGRF files from there as well?"
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14:18<frosch123>Rubidium: no, they are intercepted by openttd and filtered from the search results
14:23<@peter1138>la la la i can't hear you
14:24<frosch123>isn't that what tb usually says?
14:25<Rubidium>that's why I haven't seen peter1138 and TrueBrain in real life at the same time ;)
14:25<Rubidium>it's possibly the same person
14:25<jonty-comp>dun dun dun
14:26<TrueBrain>I refuse to give any insight in the matter; that is personal.
14:27<frosch123>Rubidium: you make the bold assumptions that they are "persons"
14:27<Supercheese>WHOIS check
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14:28<Supercheese>that should settle it eh
14:28<TrueBrain>you never used a BNC before, hav eyou?
14:29<andythenorth>oh look it's TrueBrain :)
14:29<TrueBrain>are you sure?
14:30<andythenorth>not in the least
14:31<Supercheese>a needle pulling thread
14:32<frosch123>collecting postage stamps is far better than collecting needles
14:33<Rubidium>Supercheese: where do I live, based on whois?
14:34<Supercheese>it doesn't say where you live
14:34<Supercheese>Just some generic IP and node stuff
14:34<Rubidium>but... what does it tell?
14:35<Supercheese>I was thinking more of comparing the WHOIS results to see if they were identical or close to it
14:35<Supercheese>as opposed to wildly different
14:35<Supercheese>not just checking a single result by itself
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14:36<rubidium_>yes, this looks pretty much not like the whois of Rubidium
14:36<Supercheese>Well there you go, you've spent more effort than I care to :)
14:37<rubidium_>though I couldn't even care enough to make a new user account to prove you wouldn't have guessed until I told you
14:37<Supercheese>of course
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14:41<Wolf01>hello :D
14:45<andythenorth>should nmlc report multiple lang files with same ID?
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25027 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/gaelic.txt (2013-02-19 19:45:26 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Fix: missing svn properties on Gaelic
14:46<Supercheese>andy: sounds nice
14:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25028 /branches/1.3 (7 files in 7 dirs) (2013-02-19 19:46:46 UTC)
14:46<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
14:46<@DorpsGek>- Feature: Searching of (missing) content via GrfCrawler (r25024, r25023)
14:46<@DorpsGek>- Fix: [SDL] Crash after bootstrap download of 32bits base set due to referencing a deleted mutex [FS#5466] (r25017)
14:46<@DorpsGek>- Fix: [SDL] Improve 8bpp hardware palette support. Instead of always requesting SDL_HWPALETTE, it is now only done for 8bp blitters in fullscreen mode (r25003, r25002, r24993)
14:48<Rubidium>andythenorth: it shouldn't, or at least it should warn about it
14:52<Supercheese>no warnings for duplicate langids yet
14:52<@Alberth>Hi Wold
14:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25029 /branches/1.3/src/lang (29 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-19 19:54:06 UTC)
14:54<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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14:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25030 branches/1.3/src/lang/tamil.txt (2013-02-19 19:58:46 UTC)
14:58<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk: tamil was upgraded to finished
14:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25031 /branches/1.3 (5 files in 4 dirs) (2013-02-19 19:59:08 UTC)
14:59<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Update: documentation
15:04<Wolf01><Alberth> Hi Wold <- ok, you unmasked me, I'm Woldemort!
15:04<Wolf01>or Wolfemort
15:07<Wolf01>or Wolfmoth
15:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25032 tags/1.3.0-RC1/ (2013-02-19 20:08:02 UTC)
15:08<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.3.0-RC1
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15:20<@Alberth>andythenorth: your nml version checking is broken :)
15:21<@planetmaker>o/ RC!
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15:23<andythenorth>MP GS game to test the RC? :P
15:24*andythenorth is bored :P
15:24<Rubidium>andythenorth: binaries are not done yet
15:24<andythenorth>neither are my newgrfs :P
15:24<andythenorth>"patience grasshopper"
15:26<frosch123>andythenorth: write an annoucemost post instead :)
15:27<andythenorth>who me? :P
15:27<andythenorth>hang on
15:28<andythenorth>"We've shipped it. Is it good?"
15:28<andythenorth>my announcement posts are...terse
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15:36<andythenorth>controversial idea
15:36<andythenorth>vehicle sets that suit the climate
15:39<@Alberth>snowy wagons and engines above the snow line?
15:41<andythenorth>snowy ships :P
15:43<@Alberth>ice-skating ships :)
15:43<Supercheese>Horse-drawn vehicles on ice
15:43<Supercheese>slip slide
15:49<andythenorth>who speaks welsh?
15:50<andythenorth>or swedish>
15:50<andythenorth>or slovak?
15:51<NGC3982>I speak Swedish.
15:51*Supercheese speaks English, Spanish, and Latin
15:51<andythenorth>NGC3982: can you fix a FIRS string?
15:52<NGC3982>That depends on what it contains. I guess translation wont be any fuss, if that's your poison.
15:52<NGC3982>Just tell me what to do :)
15:53<andythenorth>swedish string is outdated
15:53<andythenorth>it should now be three strings, as per english
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16:01<NGC3982>andythenorth: I notice that the old string uses "t" for man supplies, but crates in the new one. I think i need to know how you translate "crates" in other instances of FIRS, in Swedish.
16:02<NGC3982>I could just translate it, but i guess you want consistency.
16:02<andythenorth>it looks like we don't afaict
16:02<andythenorth>translation might be outdated somewhat
16:02<NGC3982>Ill look for it.
16:03<andythenorth>should be same as what OpenTTD does with 'crates' for goods
16:03<NGC3982>"STR_CARGO_UNIT_ENGINEERING_SUPPLIES" + ":{SIGNED_WORD} låd{P 0 a or} med ingenjörsmateriel"
16:04<NGC3982>As with the old translation, the word "delivered" should really be added for cinsistency and ..logic.
16:04<NGC3982>cinsistency \o/
16:05<Rubidium>andythenorth: the binaries are done
16:06<andythenorth>too late for GS?
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16:17<andythenorth>nginx crashed :P
16:17<NGC3982>Please note the old string on row 1.
16:19<andythenorth>I can't see the paste due to devzone pastebin dying :)
16:19<andythenorth>sorry :P
16:19<NGC3982>Oh, i can always paste somewhere else.
16:24<andythenorth>NGC3982: thanks :)
16:26<NGC3982>Though, please note that "Cargo production" is a word that should be permanently changed in the Swedish translation, if used somewhere else.
16:27<NGC3982>"Lastproduktion" is a literal translation, and does not really exist as a used term.
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16:27<NGC3982>I can take a look after it in the diff.
16:29<NGC3982>..It is everywhere in the diff.
16:30*NGC3982 takes this with a higher power.
16:30<jonty-comp>i don't think praying will help
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17:06<andythenorth>optional end tags in html 5
17:06<andythenorth>madness :)
17:09<jonty-comp>that can't be a thing D:
17:10<@peter1138>that's why it's not xhtml
17:10<@peter1138>too hard for the plebs
17:10<andythenorth>that's 14 years of instinctive end-tag closing I have to overcome now :P
17:10<andythenorth>it does look better for <li>
17:10<jonty-comp>or you could just carry on closing tags like a good boy
17:11<andythenorth>it's not even clear what we're supposed to do
17:11<andythenorth>standard w3c crap
17:11<@peter1138>dont deliberately miss them
17:11*jonty-comp needs to apply for a new SSL certificate but keeps forgetting
17:11<andythenorth>the thing is
17:11<andythenorth>if html 6 brings back end tags
17:11<andythenorth>that's a crapload of code to fix
17:12<andythenorth>not closing <p> is bonkers
17:12<@peter1138>end tags aren't wrong
17:12<@peter1138>they just left it too lenient
17:12<andythenorth>but why bother if you don't have to? o_O
17:12<andythenorth>^ and this is how we got PHP
17:13<@peter1138>^ and this is how we got reality tv
17:13<andythenorth>^ on the one hand it's kind of neat
17:13<andythenorth>and otoh, <shudder>
17:13<andythenorth>it's all unbalanced :P
17:14<@peter1138>dont do it
17:15<andythenorth>is there any good reason, besides ugliness?
17:16<andythenorth>and I have to write valid xhtml by day
17:16<jonty-comp>i hope <shudder> isn't a tag
17:16<andythenorth>it should be closed if it
17:16<andythenorth>otherwise I'm still rendering shudder
17:16<andythenorth>which will be boring
17:16<jonty-comp>otherwise you would end up with the html5 equivalent of parkinsons
17:16<andythenorth>it should be a tag
17:16<andythenorth>I should go to sleep
17:16<andythenorth>where is pikka pops?
17:17<andythenorth>he should get up around ow
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18:07<Bad_Brett>it's awfully quiet here...
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>it's awfully night here...
18:38<@Terkhen>good night
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20:31-!-planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC1 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
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