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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-02-24

---Logopened Sun Feb 24 00:00:01 2013
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01:01<TigerVIP>hello
01:01<Supercheese>Greetings
01:01<TigerVIP>thanks
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03:01<andythenorth>Pikka: bonsoir
03:03<Pokka>hello andy
03:03*Pokka is banditing around in euro truck simulator 2
03:03<Pokka>why must they drive on the wrong side on the continent? :)
03:06<@peter1138>silly isn't it
03:06<Pokka>yes
03:06<@peter1138>also you can coast for hundreds of miles with no fuel
03:07<Pokka>then when you want to come back, they give you a french truck to drive, with the steering wheel on the wrong side.
03:07<Pokka>ho ho
03:07<Pokka>andy, I had a thinks
03:07<Pokka>I think I will make my semis in hoqvs non-articulated
03:08<Pokka>they'll be small enough
03:09<Pokka>and I think I'd rather they overtake and be able to use non-drivethrough stations
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03:13<andythenorth>Pokka: your idea is intriguing
03:13<andythenorth>do you have a newsletter?
03:14<andythenorth>BBL
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03:18<mseidl>hello!
03:25-!-tracerpt [4d565a37@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
03:28<tracerpt>gooooood morning :F
03:29<tracerpt>or evening
03:29<tracerpt>I get confused
03:31<mseidl>it's morning for me
03:32<tracerpt>theoretically for me also
03:32<tracerpt>but since i didnt sleep
03:33<tracerpt>i think it may still be yesterday
03:33<tracerpt>:)
03:36<mseidl>do you know much about the train signals tracerpt ?
03:36<tracerpt>not much
03:36<tracerpt>I mostly use path signals
03:37<tracerpt>i dont really understand much of the game, i pop in here to try and pickup something
03:37<NGC3982>Morning.
03:37<mseidl>i setup a loading loop but my trains keep getting stuck
03:38<NGC3982>Anything i can help you with?
03:39<mseidl>NGC3982: yeah, hold on, i will show you a pic
03:39<NGC3982>Great.
03:40<mseidl>http://www.darkcoding.net/files/2009/05/two-loading-loops.jpg
03:40<mseidl>you see the loop around ludinghattan?
03:41<tracerpt>give me 1 min
03:41<tracerpt>playing poker at same time
03:41<tracerpt>will see
03:41<tracerpt>morning ngc
03:41<mseidl>i did 1 of those around each trainstation but they keep getting stuck while loading.
03:41<NGC3982>Yes, that looks a bit odd.
03:42<mseidl>do i need to add a block signal if i want to split up the rear track?
03:42<tracerpt>i do mine on a such larger scale that i have trouble figuring out simple layouts
03:43<mseidl>i tried adding another pre/path signal right before the depot but that didn't seem to work as designed
03:43<tracerpt>but seems like the block signals are doing that
03:43<NGC3982>I actually wouldnt know. My sollution would be to not use block signals on two way tracks.
03:43<tracerpt>try using path signals
03:43<tracerpt>let me just close my poker game
03:44<NGC3982>Yes. Two simple two way path signals.
03:44<NGC3982>At least that's what i would do.
03:44<mseidl>i wanted itto be able to store 2 trains on the back side if need be
03:44<mseidl>because what happens is atrain waits behind another blocking the exit
03:45<NGC3982>"itto"?
03:45<NGC3982>Ah, It to.
03:45<NGC3982>:)
03:45<mseidl>a train waits for a platform blocking the exit, so one train sits in the
03:45<@Terkhen>good morning
03:45<mseidl>back side, but none of the trains will leave the platforms because of the train on the backside
03:46<tracerpt>http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4024494/FlightSims/two-loading-loops.jpg
03:47<tracerpt>try that
03:47<tracerpt>put 2 path signals on those spots (red)
03:47<tracerpt>remove green block signals
03:47<tracerpt>should do the trick
03:47<NGC3982>Yes
03:47<mseidl>tracerpt: i just copied the single station
03:47<mseidl>with asingle line to anothe rstation with the same loop
03:48-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
03:48<tracerpt>i like larger stuff xD
03:48<tracerpt>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=168859
03:49<mseidl>wow
03:49<tracerpt>that line is serving 102 trains now
03:49<mseidl>tracerpt: is that yours?
03:49<tracerpt>about 30 stoping there
03:49<tracerpt>ye
03:49<mseidl>you're at 85 million after 1 years? what the hell gets served there?
03:50<mseidl>14*
03:50<tracerpt>im at over 1 billion now
03:50<tracerpt>2050+-
03:51<tracerpt>thats my first game with FIRS
03:51<tracerpt>I did cheat to remove a mountain
03:51<tracerpt>so u can take out about 5 million from there
03:52<tracerpt>thats just a test game, 1st where i used trainsets and industry stuff
03:52<mseidl>tracerpt: are you mostly focusing on industry stuff?
03:53<tracerpt>its a small map, not much towns
03:53<tracerpt>1024x256 i think
03:53<tracerpt>but most is industry yes
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03:54<tracerpt>FIRS keeps me busy
03:54<tracerpt>i really liked it
03:55<tracerpt>when i get bored from this game will start a really big map and do it properly
03:55<mseidl>FIRS?
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03:55<tracerpt>adds industries to the game
03:55<tracerpt>wait
03:56<tracerpt>mseidl: http://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS
03:57<tracerpt>i would make it confusing if i tried to explain
03:57<andythenorth_>Is that wiki page outdated? O_o
03:59<tracerpt>probably
03:59<tracerpt>:)
03:59<tracerpt>i wouldnt know
03:59<tracerpt>mseidl: ask andy he knows a bit about firs
03:59<tracerpt>:D
03:59<mseidl>oh another question? i see sawmills on the map? but havent found a lumber yard to pick up wood? did i just miss it somewhere?
04:00<tracerpt>u need to fund them
04:00<Supercheese>Outdated wiki page is outdated
04:00<tracerpt>on the forest patches in the hills
04:01<mseidl>ok
04:01<tracerpt>i dont think they show up in the game by themselves
04:01<tracerpt>if they do i've never seen one
04:01<tracerpt>oh, and when they start taking down trees
04:02<tracerpt>u'll need to plant more
04:02<tracerpt>but its a good investment
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04:02<mseidl>tracerpt: why?
04:02<mseidl>to keep people happy?
04:02<tracerpt>to make money :D
04:03<mseidl>ha
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04:04<andythen_>Outdated wiki page for FIRS :p
04:04<tracerpt>lumber mills will chop down trees around them
04:04<tracerpt>eventually depleting the forest
04:04<tracerpt>then u plant more
04:04<Supercheese>only in tropical vanilla OTTD eh
04:04<tracerpt>keep the $$$ flowing
04:05<tracerpt>lol
04:05<mseidl>tracerpt: what's your general strategy for starting out?
04:05<tracerpt>coal
04:06<@Alberth>tracerpt: I stop caring for money once I get more than I can spend
04:06<tracerpt>true
04:06<@Alberth>pax is also good, as you have two-way cargo
04:07<tracerpt>i always start by locating a coal mine at medium range from a power station
04:07<mseidl>pax?
04:07<@Alberth>coal is easier, I agree, in temperate, at least :p
04:07<tracerpt>passengers
04:07<tracerpt>the tropical one also
04:07<@Alberth>in arctic, I usually start with wood
04:07<mseidl>ah
04:08<tracerpt>never played artic
04:08<tracerpt>nor the toy stuff
04:08<mseidl>is there a way to slow down the time too?
04:08<@Alberth>and in toyland with batteries and plastic, for the toy factory
04:09<@Alberth>mseidl: there are several patches that attempt that, but each has problems
04:09<@Alberth>never tried them though
04:09<tracerpt>I'm using a fairly old pc
04:09<@Alberth>5,000,000 years game time seems sufficient to me :)
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04:10<tracerpt>and when overloading firefox with flash stuff
04:10<tracerpt>and running everything else
04:10<tracerpt>poker clients etc
04:10<tracerpt>1 year may take 5 more seconds to go by
04:11<tracerpt>so i think thats effective lol
04:11<mseidl>is anybody here responsable for play-ttd.com? the online js version?
04:11<Supercheese>I don't think the author of that hangs out here
04:11<tracerpt>speaking of online
04:12<tracerpt>how does it works online? competitive?
04:12<tracerpt>work*
04:12<tracerpt>not the js version
04:12<Supercheese>People start a company and build stuff, and transport stuff
04:12<tracerpt>ottd
04:12<Supercheese>multiple people can do that at the same time :P
04:13<NGC3982>I love faceraping.
04:13<Supercheese>it's not very complex unless you make it
04:13<tracerpt>is it persistent?
04:13<tracerpt>or do everyone else needs to be online to get the game resumed
04:13<tracerpt>does*
04:13<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/rbbPr4d.png
04:14<Supercheese>wat
04:14<mseidl>face raping?
04:14<NGC3982>My girl friend forgot her ipad logged in
04:14<tracerpt>wtf
04:14<tracerpt>lol
04:14<Supercheese>and yes, games on servers are persistent
04:14<Supercheese>they can either keep running or autopause when no one is connected
04:14<mseidl>NGC3982: are you swedish?
04:14<@Alberth>tracerpt: depends on server settings, and you can play competition, co-operation, and everything in between
04:14<NGC3982>Yes.
04:15<tracerpt>god morgen :D
04:15<mseidl>guten morgen
04:15<mseidl>;)
04:15<NGC3982>tracerpt: For instance, i have three dedicated (advertised) servers running, and two out of three servers run only when >1 player is online. The third runs ..Always.
04:16<tracerpt>so if i was to join one of those games
04:16<Supercheese>I forgot about OTTD javascript implementation
04:16<Supercheese>people were like "No way, that's impossible!"
04:16<tracerpt>if it was competitive
04:16<Supercheese>then boom, some virtually anonymous dude implements it
04:16<NGC3982>Wait what.
04:16<NGC3982>Java and OpenTTD?
04:16<NGC3982>Oh, that site?
04:16<tracerpt>i can have someone buy out my company when im not there?
04:16<Supercheese>Well, OTTD-in-browser
04:16<Supercheese>I have no idea what the actual code is, I presume javascript
04:16<mseidl>there are funny bugs
04:17<Supercheese>http://play-ttd.com
04:17<mseidl>i tried to buy a bus but it cost me 7 billion pounds
04:17<NGC3982>tracerpt: Yes, if you are facing bancruptcy, and the configuration of the server allow it.
04:17<Supercheese>Heh, no newgrfs
04:18<mseidl>is anybody working on higher res version of ttd?
04:18<Supercheese>zBase is
04:18<Supercheese>you can download it from Banananananaannas
04:18<NGC3982>The Bananarama.
04:18<Supercheese>Oh, and zBase is the thing, not the person
04:18<tracerpt>7 billion pounds
04:18<Supercheese>in case that was ambiguous
04:19<tracerpt>u bough the whole tfl buses
04:19<tracerpt>xD
04:19<tracerpt>all the tfl buses
04:19<NGC3982>mseidl: That sounds like three hundred years of inflation in play.
04:20<tracerpt>well i tryed the zbase
04:20<tracerpt>colours are well annoying
04:20<tracerpt>went back to default after 10 minutes
04:20<tracerpt>but i am using the 32bpp trains on my game though
04:20<tracerpt>they do look good
04:20<Rubidium>NGC3982: pff... 300 years is unimaginable, maybe 170 but no more
04:21<NGC3982>Doesn't inflation stop after some time, btw?
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04:22<mseidl>did anybody make a clone of sim city?
04:22<Rubidium>yes
04:22<tracerpt>the original game?
04:22<tracerpt>or the crap they fed us after it? :)
04:23<mseidl>any of them?
04:23<Rubidium>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincity
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04:24<Supercheese>good night
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04:24<tracerpt>gn
04:26<mseidl>good night
04:27<tracerpt>speaking of night
04:27<tracerpt>i should get some sleep
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04:28<sridharan_eee>Hi everybody... May I ask in this forum, is it possible to add train timings to simulate real time schedule for trains running between stations..?
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04:31<tracerpt>hello
04:31<mseidl>night
04:32<mseidl>tracerpt: thanks for your help and NGC3982
04:32<tracerpt>theres a timetable thing on the train orders, but i just use it to set max speed
04:32<tracerpt>yw :)
04:32<tracerpt>i tried to get a jet to fly once a month but failed miserably
04:32<tracerpt>;)
04:33<tracerpt>sridharan_eee: http://wiki.openttd.org/Timetable
04:33<tracerpt>i'm too tired to read
04:34<tracerpt>going to bed :)
04:34<tracerpt>laters all
04:35<sridharan_eee>thank you
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04:37<mseidl>i installed zbase via the download menu and it crashes when loading now
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04:39<mseidl>fixed it
04:40<mseidl>are there any must have grfs?
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04:58<@Alberth>mseidl: no
04:58<@Alberth>as in, everybody has different favorite ones
04:59<@Alberth>it depends on how you play the game
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05:42<Wolf01>moin
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05:54<@Alberth>moin
05:54<@Alberth>nice changes andy!
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05:58<andythenorth_>Alberth I considered tabs for lang page, would be more usable
05:58<andythenorth_>But needs more js and complicated markup
06:00<andythenorth_>I'm trying to keep this so anyone could hack on it
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06:01<@Alberth>:o a pretty 'upload language' page as well!
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06:02<@Alberth>I don't exactly know what to put at that page, tbh
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06:06<@Alberth>I find it a waste to dump all strings there, somewhat. Just the names makes it even quite useless imho
06:07<@Alberth>perhaps add a link from the project page directly to the string-edit page? that's what most people would do
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06:20<andythenorth_>Phone irc is poor
06:23<Kjetil>it can't afford food ?
06:23<@Alberth>you may want to throw the phone out the window, but that may have a dramatic effect on your ability to irc
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07:05<andythenorth_>Alberth is the intention to host one instance of web translator someshere, or distribute it? Assuming host...?
07:06<@Alberth>imho, different sites can make different decisions there
07:07<andythenorth_>Might have licensing shenanigan, some of the libraries I've added are MIT etc, not GPL :)
07:07<@Alberth>it's single threading at the moment, so a single instance wouldn't really work now
07:08<andythenorth_>Single threading is not uncommon for python web apps
07:08<@Alberth>true, but you better prepare for several instances then, imho
07:08<andythenorth_>Yes
07:09<andythenorth_>Use haproxy or something to farm work to instances
07:09<andythenorth_>But then locking needs considering :)
07:09<@Alberth>so we should make more explicit what license holds for which part
07:10<@Alberth>perhaps even distributing the 3rd -party data as separate archives
07:10<andythenorth_>When i have my laptop again i can look at the licenses
07:10<@Alberth>I considered locking a bit, but decided aginst implementing it now, as the problem is big enough without race conditions :p
07:12<andythenorth_>One thread per xml file :p
07:12<@Alberth>I am also still wondering whether files are really the way to go
07:12<andythenorth_>Probably files are bad :)
07:12<andythenorth_>Sqlalchemy might be worth a look
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07:12<andythenorth_>Adapter to sql, makes it act like objects
07:13<andythenorth_>Python
07:13<@Alberth>but merging all strings of all projects together also didn't look like a good solution
07:13<@Alberth>you mostly need just the base language and the translation you work on
07:15<@Alberth>stuff like updating the base language breaks that idea, and initial loading does due to re-generation strings state
07:15<@Alberth>the latter is solvable, the latter is harder to fix
07:15<@Alberth>euhm, the *former* is harder to fix :)
07:16<frosch123>someone knows some nasty train sets using cargo subtypes? :)
07:18<andythenorth_>Canrail - some of the flat wagons do
07:18<andythenorth_>Nars 2 regearing
07:18<andythenorth_>Db set i assume does
07:19<@peter1138>ukrs 1? dunno though
07:21<andythenorth_>Alberth have you implemented any file locking at all yet? :)
07:22<@Alberth>no
07:23<andythenorth_>If this was a work project it would just use zodb which is a neat persistent object db for python
07:23<andythenorth_>But nobody in this community will know how to host zodb
07:24<andythenorth_>Writing our own locks etc for files is ... undesirable?
07:25<V453000>frosch123: nuts has cargo subtypes too for passengers/mail/gold :P
07:26<frosch123>really? i guess i never transported those cargos with nuts
07:26<frosch123>are there articulated wagons for gold?
07:29<@Alberth>andythenorth_: it is not, but I think the project is complicated enough without threading, currently at least
07:29<V453000>yes frosch123, on maglev
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07:30<andythenorth_>Also it's nice that the project can be run without building deps (db etc)
07:30<@Alberth>andythenorth_: another point you could start from is the ProjectMetaData object, which loads/saves/unloads projects
07:31<@Alberth>yeah, you can simply copy a file back, restart the server, and try again :)
07:32<@Alberth>you could also give each language a file
07:33<@Alberth>a project would be a directory then
07:38<andythenorth_>Hmm
07:38<andythenorth_>So my guess is that performance will simply be fine most of the time
07:38<andythenorth_>Low number of concurrent users
07:39<andythenorth_>Relatively simple read / write tasks
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07:43<andythenorth_>Stuff that might chug - like large exports - could be a standalone app reading same files (read only)
07:44<@Alberth>I agree
07:45<@Alberth>except that I'd pull langfile updates also over http from the application
07:45<@Alberth>so you don't need to have file access
07:46<andythenorth_>Wsgi can combine multiple apps trivially afaik btw
07:46<andythenorth_>And yes, i was thinking of curling lang updates for my grfs
07:47<andythenorth_>I might want them as json for more processing though, not just a lang file ;)
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07:48<@Alberth>another extension is to make a file format to express what needs to be translated, so translators can download that into a local application
07:48<@Alberth>I used json first, but I don't have control over its contents
07:49<@Alberth>xml gives me the option of inspecting each node
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07:50<@Alberth>unless I write a json parser, of course :)
07:53-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
07:55<@Alberth>btw, do you have a library that converts a time-delta (in number of seconds) to something nicely readable, like "3 weeks ago" ?
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07:56<andythenorth_>I think it's quite trivial to output json from objs - there's a repr module for it iirc
07:56<andythenorth_>Hmm time offsets. Maybe babel can do that?
07:57<@Alberth>sure, output is no problem, it's loading it back that I worry about :)
07:57<andythenorth_>http://babel.edgewall.org/
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07:57<@Alberth>I looked around a bit, and there are a number of implementation floating around at the new
07:58<andythenorth_>I was going to add babel for time formatting etc
07:58<andythenorth_>Then decided it's overkill
07:58<andythenorth_>Brb
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07:59<andythenorth>real computer
07:59<andythenorth>real keyboard :P
08:00<@Alberth>:)
08:01<@Alberth>bable does seem overkill unless we're going to translate our application :)
08:01<@Alberth>*babel
08:01<@Alberth>I am somewhat surprised nobody wrote an implementation for adding to datetime
08:01<andythenorth>it is overkill
08:02<andythenorth>well date1-date2 should work
08:02<@Alberth>but all texts and changes have time stamps, which need to be displayed as well
08:03<andythenorth>it's just the formatting is a bit of work
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08:03<andythenorth>http://labix.org/python-dateutil claims delta computation
08:03<@Alberth>yeah, you don't want 1 year, 5 months, 21 days, 6 hours, 39 minutes and 1 second :)
08:04<@Alberth>17 months is precise enough :)
08:04<andythenorth>that's just a set of 'if blah:' stuff :)
08:05<andythenorth>if we can't find one, I could write it
08:05<andythenorth>later...
08:05<@Alberth>k
08:07<@Alberth>oh, epydoc makes the .pyc mess
08:08<@Alberth>as it's using python2 :)
08:13<andythenorth>wrap it in a script that deletes all .pyc afterwards :P
08:18<@Alberth>you added .pyc ignore already :)
08:22<jonty-comp>i swear i'm missing some repos in my brand-new ubuntu install or something
08:23<jonty-comp>first i wanted to install steam, and the wiki said it was in apt, but it wasn't
08:23<jonty-comp>and now i want to install a theme switcher which it also says is in apt but clearly is not
08:24<frosch123>are you sure "steam" would already be in a "stable" ubuntu release?
08:24<frosch123>maybe you need unstable or experimental or whatever
08:25<jonty-comp>http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/steam-added-to-ubuntu-software-center-celebrates-with-big-sale
08:26<@Alberth>using a mirror repo?
08:26<jonty-comp>ah, that might be it
08:27<jonty-comp>although one would assume the UK mirror has all the packages
08:27*jonty-comp switches to main
08:27<@peter1138>in valves world where ubuntu == linux == ubuntu
08:28<jonty-comp>probably because canonical are buying them flowers and promising them millions
08:28<@Alberth>more likely because their average unix customer thinks that way :)
08:33<@peter1138>"so very special"
08:33<@peter1138>aww, radio edits...
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08:38*NGC3982 is on a X51.
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09:02<LordAro>heyo all
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09:07<Generalcamo>Hey, I am having trouble with OpenTTD. I cannot seem to get the MIDI files it plays to go onto the proper MIDI driver
09:07<Generalcamo>It always defaults to the Terrible Windows Driver
09:13-!-mseidl [~aaa@p5DCE6A46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
09:13<mseidl>does it make sense to connect small towns with roads?
09:13<mseidl>do they grow faster?
09:13<andythenorth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Town_growth#Town_Growth
09:16<mseidl>thanks andythenorth
09:20<andythenorth>$someone who is bored might consider updating this? o_O http://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS
09:20<andythenorth>Pikka how much are limes where you live?
09:22<jonty-comp>oh wow, the nouveau driver did *not* like me opening bbc radio 1
09:22*jonty-comp presses the reset buttan
09:29<mseidl>question, i just grouped a bunch of vehicles together that are too old, and i wanted to replace them all using the replace all , but the button is grayed out?
09:30<@peter1138>nobody likes you opening bbc radio 1
09:31<Pokka>limes, andy?
09:35<mseidl>it seems as if there is nothing on the right hand column
09:36<mseidl>to select as a replacement vehicle
09:39<Pokka>maybe you can no longer build vehicles of that type, mseidl?
09:40<NGC3982>Xbox Kinect really sucks.
09:40<@Alberth>throw it out the window quickly!
09:40<NGC3982>Seriosly, it's in the Rob the Robot category.
09:40<Pokka>throw it out of the window slowly
09:41<mseidl>Pokka: why? they are still available in my new vehicle list from the depot all these trucks are at
09:41<mseidl>NGC3982: why you say that?
09:41<NGC3982>It doesn't even handle a menue.
09:41<NGC3982>Trying several angles, with no or lots of stuff around me, different distances.
09:41<Pokka>maybe you can then
09:41<NGC3982>It is not bad. It's -broken-.
09:41<Pokka>I'd post a screenshot and savegame on the forum :)
09:43<mseidl>are there any must have grfs?
09:44<NGC3982>mseidl: Not really, but personaly, i never play vanilla without the OpenGFX+ NewGRF pack.
09:44<@peter1138>is it vanilla with that?
09:44<Pokka>andy: stop stirring
09:44<NGC3982>peter1138: Not ..really. I guess.
09:45<@peter1138>my must-have grf: trg1r.grf
09:45<jonty-comp>it has become apparent to me that ubuntu still hates my entirely-normal desktop computer
09:45<Pokka>that grf sucks, per
09:45<Pokka>and peter1138
09:46<andythenorth>Pikka: stirring? Limes?
09:46<NGC3982>Wha'zat?
09:46<Pokka>stirring simutranscape
09:46<Pokka>and limes?
09:50<Pokka>the limes in climes fall mainly on the rhymes
09:50<@peter1138>no u
09:50<Pokka>her too
09:51<@peter1138>what's this, FIRS to be removed from bananas and hosted solely on simuscape?
09:52<Pokka>sounds plausible
09:53<Pokka>but mostly advising SAC she should consult mb for advice on the best way to handle content violations :)
09:54<andythenorth>I'm genuine
09:54<Pokka>you're still stirring :P
09:54<andythenorth>nah, I actually think maria is heading into a license headache
09:54<Pokka>and what are these limes I've heard so much about?
09:54<andythenorth>and she'll just end up sad about it
09:54<andythenorth>nothing interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21519050
09:55<andythenorth>you won't miss anything if you don't click
09:56<@peter1138>i'm going to click anyway
09:56<Pokka>eh
10:03*andythenorth teaching the 3 year old Big Trak
10:03<andythenorth>"it's magic"
10:05<Pokka>D:
10:07<Pokka>anyway, what "licence headache"? It's her stuff, she can choose to do with or not do with it as she likes. :)
10:09<andythenorth>the one where it's a made up license, full of holes?
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10:11<andythenorth>I would rather have a happy team simuscape
10:11<andythenorth>and fewer dramas with the neighbours about who's dog has crapped on the lawn
10:12<andythenorth>whose / who's /s ?
10:12<Pokka>I like my licence
10:12<andythenorth>you should just use WTFPL
10:12<Pokka>I use the opposite :)
10:13<Pokka>largely because I'm not labouring under the illusion that I'm going to sue anyone over TTD graphics
10:13<andythenorth>Team SS should adopt your licence ;)
10:14<andythenorth>what does Michael use?
10:15<Pokka>hmm
10:16<andythenorth>bit confusing
10:16<andythenorth>the DB Set 0.8 copyright notice includes right to distribute
10:18<Kjetil>why can't everyone just be friends ?
10:18<Pokka>who knows :)
10:19<Pokka>you'd better upload it to bananas then, andythenorth
10:19<Pokka>except the bananas ToS says you can't :)
10:22<Pokka>but yes, why can't everyone just be friends? because entitlement and playing pretend lawyer is more fun than respecting other people's right to do what they want with their own work, probably.
10:24*Pokka well past bedtime :)
10:24<Pokka>goodnight gentlemen and charlies
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10:25<jonty-comp>i take offense at that!
10:25<Kjetil>You are not a friend ?
10:26<Kjetil>Or are you not a gentleman ?
10:27<jonty-comp>that is not for me to decide
10:27<Kjetil>then how can you take offence ?
10:28<__ln__>Kjetil: please, no space in front of the questionmark.
10:29<Kjetil>why ?
10:29<Kjetil>(;
10:29<__ln__>because this channel is english only.
10:29<Kjetil>does it break your head ?
10:30<jonty-comp>i think you are answering your "why can't everyone just be friends" question quite well there
10:30<Kjetil>breaks*
10:30<Kjetil>haha
10:30<jonty-comp>because everyone does something that annoys someone else, no matter how hard they try :P
10:30<frosch123>[16:29] <Kjetil> does it break your head ? <- if in doubt, the reverse smiley did for sure :p
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10:33<Kjetil>-breaks* I guess i broke my own head
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10:54<Generalcamo>OpenTTD uses Pre-Rendered sprites, right?
10:55<__ln__>as opposed to what?
10:55<Generalcamo>Graphics
10:55<__ln__>uses sprites instead of graphics, hmm
10:56<Generalcamo>I would love to model up a train and convert it to sprite form...
10:57<__ln__>the sprites are drawn by hand, pixel by pixel.
10:57<Generalcamo>What? That doesn't fit at all with this thread I am reading...
10:58<frosch123>maybe ln is living 5 years in the past
10:58<frosch123>well, maybe only 2
10:59<__ln__>i am
10:59<Generalcamo>Yeah, it's 3d models..
10:59<__ln__>but that's not as bad as OTTD living 15 years in the past.
10:59<frosch123>i guess the reverse smiley hit you hard
10:59<Generalcamo>And he is 15 years in the past: The original TTD used the same techinique (Only with 3d studio max)
11:00<Generalcamo>From Chris Sawyer's blog..
11:00<__ln__>i'm not offended by reverse smilies
11:00<Generalcamo>How do I create new shell maps though?
11:01<Generalcamo>Because once I am done with this mod, the shellmap will be horribly broken..
11:05<__ln__>so TTD graphics were rendered with 3d studio max, without pixel-by-pixel manual intervetion?
11:05<Generalcamo>They probably used some manual intervention to correct errors, but yes
11:07<@Alberth>different people use different techniques to derive unique collections of pixels
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11:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25040 trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp (2013-02-24 16:40:32 UTC)
11:40<@DorpsGek>-Add: a mode to CmdRefitVehicle to preserve the current subtype, also when refitting multiple vehicles.
11:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25041 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-24 16:41:51 UTC)
11:41<@DorpsGek>-Remove [FS#3764-ish]: ordered refit with subtypes, since the cases where it worked were corner cases rather than the general case.
11:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25042 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-02-24 16:42:30 UTC)
11:42<@DorpsGek>-Codechange/Fix: Simplify accumulation of refit options; also don't compare GRF local IDs from different GRFs.
11:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25043 /trunk/src (core/smallvec_type.hpp vehicle_gui.cpp) (2013-02-24 16:43:24 UTC)
11:43<@DorpsGek>-Change [FS#3764]: Only display subtypes in the refit GUI which are available for all selected vehicles. Also add a generic list item to refit while keeping the subtypes of individual vehicles.
11:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25044 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-02-24 16:43:45 UTC)
11:43<@DorpsGek>-Change: Collapse subtypes in the refit GUI and only expand them after selecting the cargo type.
11:44<frosch123>andythenorth: we should do some tram game in the next week or so
11:44<frosch123>i need to know whether the new refit gui makes sense or is crap :p
11:44<andythenorth>frosch123: I would like to play MP GS later
11:44<andythenorth>if we start setting up a save now, we might be ready by 8pm? :)
11:45<frosch123>ok, i can try that :p
11:45-!-wakou2 [~stephen@host109-145-49-167.range109-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:46<wakou2>Hi guys
11:46<wakou2>I have got to about 1990 and passenger/mail carriages are no longer available...
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11:46<wakou2>Any ideas why?
11:47<frosch123>your trainset is broken apparently :p
11:47<@Alberth>not upgraded to electric trains?
11:47<frosch123>you can work around it by disabling vehicle retirement
11:48<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Construction#Types_of_railways
11:49<wakou2>I am in a sub-arctic game, thee are no electrics! (?)
11:49<@Alberth>oh, that's normal
11:49<@Alberth>at least for a default game
11:51-!-frogzilla [4d782755@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
11:51<frogzilla>Hello people
11:51<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Train_Comparison no 'S' climate with 'electric'
11:51<@Alberth>@seen people
11:51<@DorpsGek>Alberth: I have not seen people.
11:51<frogzilla>Is this the main OpenTTd chat?
11:52<@Alberth>yep
11:52<frogzilla>I've figured out a new junction design.
11:52<frogzilla>You can view it here: http://i.imgur.com/lsJ4vfd.jpg
11:53<frogzilla>Now could you please tell me whether it's really new or it's just a repetition of a known design?
11:53<@Alberth>did you look at the wiki?
11:53<TinoDidriksen>Looks familiar to ones on the wiki.
11:53<@Alberth>it has tons of these things
11:54<frogzilla>Yes it does, but nevertheless I couldn't find an identical one on the wiki.
11:54<@Alberth>personally, I don't use any of them, as my land is never flat
11:54<frogzilla>It never hurts to flatten the land a bit
11:54<@Alberth>it does! :)
11:55<@Alberth>you can post your design on the forum for comments, and/or add it to the wiki if you like
11:55<frogzilla>Also, is it better to make a left-turn branch longer, like in the left quarter of the junction, or to make it shorter, like in the other three quarters?
11:56<wakou2>Is that 'vehicles never expire setting? in advanced/trains?
11:56<frogzilla>No
11:56<frogzilla>That was just an ordinary game in Arctic climate
11:56-!-mseidl [~aaa@p5DCE6A46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:56<@Alberth>wakou2: http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_gameplay#How_to_get_expired_vehicles_back.3F should explain the things afaik
11:56<TinoDidriksen>I never saw the point of complex junctions - even very simple solutions will prevent deadlocks.
11:57<frogzilla>In fact, this was year 1968
11:57<wakou2>Alberth:
11:57<wakou2>TY!
11:57<frogzilla>Yes, but good junctions increase throughput
11:58<@Alberth>frogzilla: for this kind of questions, you should post it at the forums, there are lots of people obsessed with optimal design of junctions there :)
11:58<frogzilla>Decent junctions, like this one, have no crossings. that way no train EVER blocks the path of a train going in another direction.
11:59<frosch123>for that you forgot to add the priority lines :p
11:59<frogzilla>I don't want to register on a forum just for a couple of questions
11:59<V453000>frogzilla: see openttdcoop.org if you want to build effectively
11:59<frogzilla>I cannot into priority lines.
11:59<V453000>?
11:59<frogzilla>And the opennttdcoop designs are way too difficult for me.
11:59<wakou2>Alberth: Git now, ty... Into the 2,000 with steam!
12:00<wakou2>(got it)
12:00<@Alberth>frogzilla: ok, perhaps someone else can help you then
12:00<@Alberth>wakou2: :)
12:00<frogzilla>At least someone else now knows about my design...
12:00<frogzilla>Ok, goodbye now.
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12:01<V453000>:D
12:01<@Alberth>indeed :)
12:01<@Alberth>V453000: how long does NUTS have steam?
12:01<V453000>what do you mean
12:02<@Alberth>wakou2 seems to be interested in running steam engines well into the 2,000 's :)
12:02<V453000>vehicles never expire?
12:03<V453000>ah right
12:03<V453000>well the standard steamers are like until 1960
12:03<V453000>but 1960 brings another steamer for monorail, and then there is a strong steamer in 2010, and an express steamer in like 2030
12:06<@Alberth>:o monorail already?
12:07<@Alberth>I am in 1972, didn't expect it that early :)
12:08<@Alberth>it seems I have some track converting to do :)
12:08<Kjetil>If people kept using steamers they would't expire?
12:12<@Alberth>Of course, most vehicle sets are based on real life, so if we would only use steam as main form of propulsion today in the entire world, we would not have all these other trains.
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12:23<tracerpt>morning all
12:23<tracerpt>:)
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12:51<andythenorth>frosch123: can we have a FIRS 0.9.3 game with temperate or tropic economy?
12:51<andythenorth>I need to test those economies
12:52<frosch123>i have 0.9.3, but used arctic
12:52<frosch123>but i can also generate tropic
12:52<andythenorth>:)
12:53<andythenorth>arctic works, I'm happy with it, give or take some bugs I fixed
12:53<andythenorth>the others are unknown
13:06<@peter1138>hmm, what defines an "ergonomic" keyboard these days?
13:06<frosch123>the price?
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13:14<Jasperthecat1>Anybody here?
13:14<frosch123>we are all driving on the highway
13:15<Jasperthecat1>What?
13:15<Jasperthecat1>Oh.
13:16-!-andythenorth_ [~andytheno@2002:4d66:7022:0:c87c:711a:c367:8fe4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:18<frosch123>do you by any chance speak tamil?
13:18<frosch123>actually, reading is more interesting that speaking
13:19<Jasperthecat1>I don't speak that language, I speak English.
13:19<frosch123>how boring
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13:20<frosch123>everyone in this channel does that
13:21<Jasperthecat1>I didn't see any features in the changelog of OpenTTD 1.3.0-RC1.
13:21<frosch123>it only lists stuff since beta2
13:21<Jasperthecat1>Oh.
13:22<frosch123>check the wiki for a composed list of everything since 1.2.3
13:22<Jasperthecat1>You said that there is some final features in that beta.
13:22<Jasperthecat1>But, thank you.
13:22<+michi_cc>Jasperthecat1: Look again, my changelog has a fat "- Feature" at the top.
13:23<frosch123>yup
13:23<Jasperthecat1>Oh.
13:23<frosch123>technically at line 3 though
13:23<Jasperthecat1>I know, it's a new GFXCrawler feature.
13:25<andythenorth_>Newgrf effect vehicles!
13:25<Jasperthecat1>What vehicles?
13:26<Jasperthecat1>Oh, you mean all of them?
13:26<Jasperthecat1>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWdQ_NGo6kY
13:27<Jasperthecat1>What train is this?
13:27<Jasperthecat1>Nvm.
13:27<@peter1138>would it be an SD90MAC?
13:27<Jasperthecat1>SD90MAC's.
13:27<frosch123>let me guess, it's written in the description?
13:27<@peter1138>yup
13:27<@peter1138>and the in-film title
13:27<Jasperthecat1>I said never mind.
13:28<frosch123>but i want to get the joke without clicking on the link
13:28<Jasperthecat1>I already read the description.
13:29<Jasperthecat1>I have a model railway. But I don't use it.
13:29<frosch123>that's the normal purpose of a model railway
13:30<Jasperthecat1>Parts of the video, the train sounds like an older truck engine.
13:31<Jasperthecat1>Also, what is that marker that shows a number.
13:32<Jasperthecat1>Right by the signals.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25045 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-02-24 18:45:26 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by bufalo1973
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 45 changes by telk5093
13:45<@DorpsGek>brazilian_portuguese - 7 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 86 changes by
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13:47<frosch123>Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1067733#p1067733 <- i guess that's for you
13:48<@Alberth>quite possibly it is :)
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13:48<@Alberth>not sure whether I am "any Dutch user" though, I don't even use the Dutch language in games :p
13:51-!-Ot [d5c0131a@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:51<Ot>hi please could u say me if OTTD runs on 7s by lan?
13:52<Ot>we wanted to try it but we cant join the another one
13:54<frosch123>7s sounds like a cellphone or similar
13:55<frosch123>in that case you should ask at the place where you got the binary from
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13:56<Ott>so?
13:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25046 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2013-02-24 18:56:50 UTC)
13:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Korean genders.
13:57<frosch123>[19:54] <frosch123> 7s sounds like a cellphone or similar
13:57<frosch123>[19:55] <frosch123> in that case you should ask at the place where you got the binary from
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14:07<Ott>thats lan or what do u think?
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>he says that he doesn't know what 7s is.
14:12<andythenorth>frosch123: what nightly version? o_O
14:13<kormer>I'm trying to compile just the standard trunk using MinGW. Compile goes fine, but I keep getting errors when I run the binary.
14:13<frosch123>todays
14:13<frosch123>r25046
14:13<kormer>crash report: http://pastebin.com/NfgzjVmt
14:14<frosch123>that tells nothing except your version detection does not work
14:15<kormer>anything else that might help narrow it down?
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4468 <-- the first google result for "Exception: E1212012"
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>(likely not related at all)
14:18<kormer>yea, I don't think that's it.
14:18<kormer>This is my first time compiling myself, so I may have screwed something up, but I followed the wiki's instructions for the MinGW guide exactly.
14:18<@Alberth>start it from the debugger?
14:19<frosch123>Alberth: Terkhen: planetmaker: anyone joining the nocargoal party?
14:19<@Alberth>did the configure output look sane
14:19<@Alberth>frosch123: there is one? if so, sure :)
14:20<frosch123>i think andy wants to start in 40 minutes
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the refitlist test game :)
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>kormer: you could try recompiling with debug symbols "./configure --enable-debug=1", and then run it in the debugger "make run-gdb"
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14:22<kormer>thanks eddi, I'll try that now, be back in 20minutes...
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>you can also do "--enable-debug=3", that will also disable optimisations
14:24<kormer>ok
14:25<kormer>I shouldn't have to add any other outside files to the directory after a compile do I?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>no, that should all be handled automatically now
14:33<@Alberth>the data files of a baseset would be useful for playing a game :p
14:38<andythenorth>"Strings Status"
14:38<andythenorth>or "Status of Strings"
14:38<andythenorth>?
14:38<@Alberth>I'd prefer the latter
14:38<andythenorth>me too
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>me as well
14:38<andythenorth>that's handy
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>"we have a consensus"
14:49*andythenorth gets the nightly
14:56<oskari89>Andythenorth: Is brewery removed from FIRS trunk? O_o
14:56<andythenorth>no
14:56<oskari89>Since the string gone
14:56<andythenorth>it needs updating ;)
14:56<oskari89>Ok :)
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15:00<kormer>eddi: when I run it with the debugged I get "No available language packs (invalid versions?)"
15:01-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:01<@Alberth>then you didn't build all projects
15:03<kormer>Is that the make bundle command?
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>kormer: then we need the output of your configure and make. something is wrong there but we cannot guess it...
15:04<@Alberth>normally just 'make' after ./configure is enough
15:05-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto21.png <-- what the hell is wrong here?
15:07<andythenorth>404?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>err...
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>wth?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>that's something i can't fix
15:09<kormer>config: http://pastebin.com/4TE1RtZ9 make: http://pastebin.com/ygGMYj1s
15:09<kormer>nothing jumps out at me as obvious, but I don't compile often
15:12<andythenorth>MP GS, #openttdcoop.nightly
15:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25047 trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt (2013-02-24 20:12:37 UTC)
15:12<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5483]: Dutch language had a few bogus unicode characters
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15:18<Eddi|zuHause>anyway: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=247991
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15:26<Supercheese>Salvete, amici
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>prosciutto
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15:30<@peter1138>heh, i don't see it :S
15:30<@peter1138>(r25047)
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: something like "zero-width space"
15:37<Supercheese>Interesting, collapsed subtypes until cargo selected?
15:37-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
15:39<Supercheese>Neat
15:40<Supercheese>Suggestion: Indent the subtype entries
15:40<Supercheese>Make it clearer they're sub-entries
15:43<Supercheese>anyway, very nice feature :)
15:44<@peter1138>god damn this keyboard is horrible
15:45<Supercheese>You should get a Logitech G15 (classic version), otherwise known as the Best Keyboard Ever
15:47<Rubidium>pff... those old IBM keyboards were probably even better ;)
15:48<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: E1212012 means ERROR, it's our custom stuff
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, my 1337 skills are somewhat out of shape :p
15:49<NGC3982>Evening.
15:49<NGC3982>Or Afton.
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>everybody should get a Das Keyboard
15:51<@peter1138>i want a split keyboard (like MS natural) but with a clicky feel
15:51<@peter1138>unpossible, apparently
15:51-!-Superuser [~superuser@host81-129-133-93.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>get a ms natural keyboard from 15 years ago? :p
15:52<@peter1138>guess i'll have to get a ms natural 4000
15:52<@peter1138>they're not clicky
15:52<Superuser>don't
15:52<@peter1138>but
15:52<Superuser>the spacebar is awful
15:52<NGC3982>I might be off, but didn't Keytronic come in split models?
15:52<Supercheese>it's a tra
15:52<Supercheese>trap* even
15:52<Superuser>the keyboard is great, but the spacebar is really stiff
15:52<NGC3982>And Keytronic == "Clicky", afaik.
15:53<@peter1138>other people in my office had 4000s but they kept dying
15:53<NGC3982>Horrible, horrible keyboards.
15:53<Superuser>http://xahlee.info/kbd/ergonomic_keyboards.html -- enjoy
15:54<Kjetil>keytronic is far from ibm clicky
15:54-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
15:54<@peter1138>there are cherry mx blues about which are reasonable
15:55<@peter1138>but only straight
15:55<NGC3982>I used to own a 4000, and my finger suffered from the plague, gangrene and AIDS at the same time.
15:55<@peter1138>and of course the over-the-top maltrons
15:55<Superuser>this page by Xah Lee is my bible http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboarding.html
15:55<NGC3982>A keyboard that suprised me is the one that ships with the Acer Aspire Revo.
15:55<Superuser>actually Xah Lee is my bible in general xD
15:55<NGC3982>From such a cheap package, the keyboard is fantastic on the fingers.
15:56<@peter1138>hmm the 'truely ergonomic' actually exists?
15:56<@peter1138>last time i looked it was some kind of vapourware
15:56-!-mseidl [~aaa@p5DCE6A46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:56<NGC3982>http://xahlee.info/comp/i/proper_elbow_position_during_typing.png
15:56<NGC3982>Harr.
15:57<@peter1138>o_O
15:57<@peter1138>sexist
15:57<Superuser>haha
15:57<NGC3982>http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/105218_bundle.jpg
15:57<NGC3982>That one.
15:57<Superuser>peter has no humour
15:57<Superuser>like whatsoever
15:57<@peter1138>that looks aweful
15:57<NGC3982>Yes, it does
15:57<Superuser>yes
15:57<Superuser>no numpad either
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>i totally hate such "designer keyboards"
15:58<@peter1138>what are the headphones for?
15:58<NGC3982>But as i said, it is (for some reason) a really good keyboard, key wise.
15:58<Superuser>I mean if you're going to get a normal keyboard, you should at least have a numberpad
15:58<@peter1138>(they're too small to be speakers, surely...)
15:58<@peter1138>it's also flat
15:58<NGC3982>That keyboard is used for the Aspire Revo, as a HTPC.
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>no key is where it's supposed to be
15:58<NGC3982>Hence, the small size.
15:58<NGC3982>..As a HTPC keyboard*
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>i throw out such things immediately when i come into an office where i have to type things
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>"can you fix <thing>?" -- "no, i can't type on this keyboard, get me a real one"
16:00<NGC3982>Well, working with a HTPC keyboard is just asking for trouble.
16:00<NGC3982>;-)
16:00<jonty-comp>i got a tiny wireless keyboard for my HTPC
16:00<jonty-comp>it's really small, which is useful, but the keys are in awful places
16:01<NGC3982>I have gotten used to laptop layouts
16:01<NGC3982>Delete to the far right, for instance.
16:03<+glx>backspace is usullay too small too
16:04<NGC3982>I like it.
16:04<jonty-comp>I have gotten used to the small keyboard on my transformer
16:04<NGC3982>Although, i'm no programmer.
16:05<jonty-comp>since it is so bloody useful in every other way
16:05<NGC3982>Also, of relevance: http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/59781_10200662880395360_543115805_n.jpg
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's bad enough when you sit in front of a new keyboard and don't hit the right letters the first few times, that adjusts rather quickly, but then go searching where the home and end keys have moved to this time?
16:06<NGC3982>I don't know why, but i very rarely use home and end.
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16:07<NGC3982>Oh, well. Whilst typing long things in Irssi, i guess i use them
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>you don't notice how you rely on such keys, until they're not where they belong :p
16:07<NGC3982>That is, every year or so that happends.
16:07<NGC3982>Hehe.
16:07<NGC3982>Actually, i recently noticed that i very rarely write stuff that exceeds the standard Putty width in Windows.
16:08<Supercheese>Home and end are incredible useful
16:11<Supercheese>incredibly*
16:11-!-chester_ [~chester@93-80-41-183.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:11<Supercheese>I typo "ble"-bly way too often
16:11<Supercheese>:S
16:12<NGC3982>You don't have to worry about linguistic irregularity when i'm around.
16:12<NGC3982>I kan tace kare off dat.
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16:13<Supercheese>The problem is the spellcheck doesn't mark them as incorrect
16:13<NGC3982>What IRC software uses spellcheck?
16:13<jonty-comp>i never realised how much I used pageup/down until I used a Mac
16:13<Supercheese>ChatZilla
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's a spellcheck not a grammarcheck
16:13<NGC3982>CatZilla, apparently.
16:13<jonty-comp>and pgup/pgdown don't fecking work in OS X terminal
16:13<jonty-comp>unless you dick around with escape commands
16:13<NGC3982>..CatZilla.
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's a valid word, so the spellcheck is correct
16:14<Supercheese>Mrow
16:14<NGC3982>Freud just turned in his grave.
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>whether it's what you meant to write is out of scope :)
16:14<__ln__>jonty-comp: yes they do
16:14<NGC3982>jonty-comp: I hate that.
16:14<NGC3982>__ln__: No?
16:14<jonty-comp>don't on any of my OS X computers
16:14<NGC3982>Unconfigured, Page Up/Down does nothing in a OSX terminal, afaik.
16:15<jonty-comp>and i've used panther, leopard, snow leopard, lion & mountain lion
16:15<jonty-comp>home/end don't work either iirc
16:15<NGC3982>Sure, i guess escape+command is the more classic way of doing stuff like that, but i can't stand it.
16:15<__ln__>try with a modifier, Option, Shift, fn.
16:15<jonty-comp>option+left is home
16:15<NGC3982>Does the normal Linux terminal commands go all the way back to Unix?
16:15<jonty-comp>but then WHY DOES THIS KEYBOARD HAVE A HOME KEY
16:15<jonty-comp>it's still an apple keyboard
16:15<NGC3982>Alt+fX, and so on?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>everybody knows you should use shift-pgup/pgdown in terminals
16:16<NGC3982>jonty-comp: I guess nobody really wants you to use a terminal in a newer OSX system.
16:16<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: O'rly?
16:17<__ln__>rly
16:17<NGC3982>If your system bundled keyboard contains page up or down, i fail to see the reason for it.
16:17<NGC3982>More than the fact that it might have been that way for a long time.
16:18<__ln__>page up/down without modifiers does another thing, it scrolls up/down the terminal's backlog.
16:18<NGC3982>I se.
16:19<NGC3982>+e*.
16:19<jonty-comp>which is what up/down are for
16:19<Wolf01>'night
16:19-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:20<__ln__>and that's what they do in OS X's terminal as well.
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16:21<NGC3982>But, i remember clearly that i couldn't get them to work with or without a modifier in OSX.
16:21<NGC3982>I guess that goes down to SBS.
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16:32<@peter1138>pom te pom
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16:34<@peter1138>time to dismantle the old ms keyboard
16:34<SpComb>what now
16:34<@peter1138>yes, right now
16:35<SpComb>no comma there
16:35<__ln__>i was going to say stephen elop wouldn't approve of that, but then i realized he's not the ceo of microsoft.
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16:44<kormer>alright, I'm giving up on trying to compile under MinGW. I followed the directions in the wiki exactly twice now, and still no luck with it.
16:46<Superuser>You can always try VS if you're uncomfortable with GCC/MinGW... though no guarantee that will work
16:46<@peter1138>FS2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~2~
16:46<@peter1138>BB
16:46<Superuser>wat
16:46<SpComb>new keyboard
16:47<__ln__>seems to be working great
16:47<SpComb>yes
16:47<kormer>I'm trying VS 2010 now
16:48<kormer>I couldn't find 2008 for download direct from MS, and the secondary google results looked shady
16:50<Superuser>The Pirate Bay is banned in your country too eh? :(
16:50<Superuser>Those bastards
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>the coherency of peter1138's lines is shady usually, but these last two lines are beyond any measurement boundaries :p
16:52<Supercheese>I compile with VC++ 2008 Express
16:52<Supercheese>works great
16:53<Superuser>I said no guarantees because OTTD is normally compiled with MinGW
16:54<@peter1138>ACVNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNVND
16:54<@peter1138>nah, i give up
16:55<kormer>I didn't really have any issues with MinGW, but I'm not experienced enough to know why the darned thing wouldn't work.
16:56<Superuser>I dunno about MinGW but I've always found g++ pretty easy in Linux
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>kormer: really, if you don't tell us what exactly you do and what you get in return, we can't help you
16:57<@Alberth>Linux is actually an order of magnitude easier for compiling
16:57<kormer>I followed these instructions to the letter: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW
16:58<kormer>The error I got when debugging was about missing/wrong version lang files, which weren't present in the bundle or bin directories.
16:58<kormer>I found some related threads in the forums, but no actual solutions, also copying the lang files from the download of the same version I was attempting to compile didn't work either.
16:59<kormer>"no available language packs" was the actual error
16:59<@Alberth>kormer: quite likely you are doing something different that you don't even see
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>kormer: i already told you what i want to see
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>kormer: the whole output of configure and make
17:00<kormer>sorry, I posted those like two hours ago, I'll dig them up again
17:00<kormer>config: http://pastebin.com/4TE1RtZ9 make: http://pastebin.com/ygGMYj1s
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>ah, i guess i missed them
17:01<@peter1138>that isn't the *output* of make
17:01<frosch123>night
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17:02<kormer>is the output going to be in a file or do I need to pipe my console output someplace?
17:03<andythenorth>bye
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17:03<@peter1138>it's the stuff you see when you run make
17:03<@Alberth>you need to redirect the output
17:06<kormer>ok got it, I'll re-run that and see what happens if VS doesn't work out
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17:10<Supercheese>makefiles are weird
17:10<SpComb>we wouldn't be very far without them
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17:18<jonty-comp>pfft, it's not linux-from-scratch unless you've compiled your kernel with just gcc
17:18<SpComb>humanity would still be stuck copy-pasting gcc command lines endlessly
17:20<jonty-comp>in related news, it turns out i had to fix my nvidia driver on my brand-new ubuntu install by installing linux-headers and running depmod
17:20<jonty-comp>i'm not quite sure why ubuntu didn't do that anyway, since it was the first thing i did after install + update
17:21<jonty-comp>now i just have to make this stupid old card's automatic fan control work, since there is no rivatuner for linux
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17:27<jonty-comp>screen -Dr
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>you said that before
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17:49<kormer>When compiling under VS, do I need to extract all the tars insude the essential zip, or is just unzipping the essentials to a directory enough?
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17:55<kormer>and I just realized I downloaded the source file when I really wanted the headers/libraries
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18:00<jonty-comp>god dammit
18:01<jonty-comp>why do i keep forgetting to fix that
18:01<jonty-comp>i shall fix it now!
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18:10<@Terkhen>good night
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18:16<kormer>ok if my earlier questions weren't stupid enough, where does VS put the compiled exe after a successful build?
18:17<+michi_cc>objs\{win32,x64}\{Debug,Release}\openttd.exe
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>VS has a "run this program" button, which should work :)
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>i guess nobody was bored enough in the last 5 years to figure out how to copy the exe at the end of the compile run
18:21<kormer>well I stupidly asked it to recompile, so I'll have to wait to look there
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18:39<kormer>success! finally
18:48<Supercheese>What is this, the OTTD wiki doesn't use disambiguation pages?
18:48<Supercheese>I thought those were wiki staples
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18:54<Supercheese>How am I supposed to disambiguate users now?
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19:25<MinchinWeb>Anyone have any experience with recolour sprits?
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>nobody has ever "experience" with anything
19:29<Supercheese>I've never used custom recolor sprites
19:39<MinchinWeb>hmm... I guess I'll keep reading and see if I make any headway...
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>thank you for wasting all of our time, anyway.
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20:21<[1]Karan>Hi
20:21<[1]Karan>Is there something that would build track instead of me in multiplayer??
20:22<[1]Karan>I need to know
20:24<kormer>You could enable ai's, and then join an AI corp.
20:24<kormer>That can get out of hand though, so use caution
20:25<[1]Karan>I was thinking something that i can use in real multiplayer?
20:25<[1]Karan>If i could just point from station to station and track would been build?
20:25<Supercheese>You can use AIs in multiplayer, no?
20:26<Supercheese>I've personally not tried
20:26<[1]Karan>on servers?
20:26<Supercheese>Server host might be the one who configures AIs
20:26<kormer>The server admin needs to set it up, yes, and the AI is never going to do what you want it to anyways
20:26<Eddi|zuHause>you can have AI companies, but they cannot be controlled by a human
20:26<Supercheese>Ah, nevermind then
20:27<[1]Karan>dont you want to play?
20:27<kormer>Someday I'd like to try designing a "helper" ai that does useful tasks for the human rather than just building all on their own.
20:27<[1]Karan>some city builder chalenges?
20:27<[1]Karan>I think if there was track building tools
20:27<kormer>exactly like Karan said, it'd be awesome if you could just build two stations, and the AI builds a route between them.
20:27<[1]Karan>like finding optimal path..
20:28<[1]Karan>it couldnt be so hard theres are some path finding algorithms already
20:28<[1]Karan>btw dont you know some interesting chatrooms?
20:29<kormer>oh yea, I looked into it long enough to realize it was doable, I just haven't had time to do it.
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>AI pathfinding works as long as you assume the map is mostly empty. once a significant amount is blocked, it'll fail
20:31<[1]Karan>how does ai build then?
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20:32<Eddi|zuHause>they don't... just try a map with lots of water
20:32<[1]Karan>i never played with compiuter but compiuter buildds tracks?
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>and several AI players
20:33<[1]Karan>someone just didnt have the time to implemented it right way
20:33<[1]Karan>:)
20:33<[1]Karan>zuHause do you know some chat rooms?
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>like, have i met any?
20:34<[1]Karan>I need to find someone somewhere who knows answer on my question.. but my question never been easy ones
20:34<[1]Karan>only few ppl having the answer and i dont know how to find them
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>that i really can't help you with...
20:35<[1]Karan>ok
20:35<[1]Karan>is irc crypted?
20:38<Flygon>encrypted?
20:38<Flygon>Depends on how you connect to the server, and if the server supports it, and if the client supports it...
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20:50<[1]Karan>Do anyone want to join with me City builder chalenge?? I never won one
20:53<[1]Karan>How can i find list of all channels on irc?
20:53<[1]Karan>i mean servers
21:08<MinchinWeb>if you want an 'AI' to build a track for you, you probably want to use a GameScript
21:09<MinchinWeb>the problem is the pathfinding... the computer can figure it out, but it takes a really long time
21:12<MinchinWeb>pathfinding time typically grows exponentially with distance
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21:53<Eddi|zuHause>... that is of course total nonsense
21:55<Eddi|zuHause>pathfinding is one of the few things in information theory that has a linear upper bound in the number of nodes in the graph
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 25 00:00:02 2013