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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-13

---Logopened Wed Mar 13 00:00:26 2013
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00:25<Flygon>I don't get it...
00:26<Flygon>My best serviced town
00:26<Flygon>Is losing the most population
00:29<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/openttdsmallbrussels.png Urg. I musta done something wrong
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00:49<Eddi|zuHause>you removed the road under the town sign
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03:07<Flygon>Eddi: Road under the town sign?
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04:33<Pikka>and why not?
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06:54<dihedral>greetings :-)
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08:17<Ristovski>hi
08:23<Pikka>ho
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09:25<@Belugas>hello
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon_: which part of that was confusing?
09:30<Flygon_>Nevermind
09:30<Flygon_>I think I figured it out
09:30-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
09:30<Flygon>People are living in Brussels again
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09:48<andythenorth>bonsoir
09:52<andythenorth>http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=You_Guys_Are_In_Big_Trouble.txt&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=alarm
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09:52<andythenorth>oops
09:52<andythenorth>wrong place
09:52<andythenorth>ignore that :)
09:52<Pikka>bonpoisson
09:52*Pikka ignores
09:52<andythenorth>apples
10:00<andythenorth>I need some pokey funny trucks
10:00<andythenorth>esoteric crap
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>you spent too much time around V453000
10:04<andythenorth>http://www.commercialmotor.com/big-lorry-blog/strange-trucks-and-weird-waggo#.UUCHEkK3CXI
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10:05<Pokka>that's torn it
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10:12<andythenorth>rolligons are more HEQS I guess http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Q5GWc46SESE/TJNg1lPM0DI/AAAAAAAACr0/ZMxJGNC67yc/s1600/Catco+snow+truck.jpg
10:15<andythenorth>http://www.commercialmotor.com/big-lorry-blog/weird-trucks-on-biglorryblogit#.UUCJ7kK3CXI
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11:45<V453000>that stuff is out of my influence Eddi :D
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12:24<MrPuschel>Hello, i ran into some trouble with the 1.2.3 linux generic. May i ask a question here?
12:24*blathijs points at the topic ("Don't ask to ask, just ask")
12:24<blathijs>So fire away :-)
12:25<MrPuschel>Oh, alright ~
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12:27<MrPuschel>I'm running the 1.2.3 generic x86 on my linux machine. I have some trouble getting NewGRF plugins to work. If i edit the openttd.cfg manually, the entries get deleted after the server shuts down. I assume because the files cannot be found. I've tried all the folders suggested in the wiki in either the install directory or ~/.openttd. I also tried to...
12:28<MrPuschel>...download them from the repository using content update/select/download. They get downloaded to baseset/content_download/ but won't load. Also there's no record under [newgrf] in the openttd.cfg after the download.
12:30<frosch123>the latter is correct
12:31<frosch123>downloading content does not imply activating it
12:31<frosch123>usually it is easiest to set up the configuration with a gui client
12:31<frosch123>and then either transfer the savegame
12:31<frosch123>or to copy the config
12:32<frosch123>if you copy configs between linux and windows you need to replace path separators in the config
12:32<frosch123>\ vs /
12:32<blathijs>Ristovski: Also, OpenTTD saves its settings to openttd.cfg on shutdown, so you should only change it manually while OpenTTD is not running
12:32<blathijs>uh, s/Ristovski/MrPuschel/
12:34<MrPuschel>Thank you, i just solved it. I'm incredibly stupid. Since the tars are threatened like directories i should have replaced the path specific characters like you said. Oh geez.
12:35<MrPuschel>So thanks frosch123 and blathijs
12:38<Ristovski>lol
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13:32<@peter1138>threatened?
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13:46<NGC3982>Evening, animals and and liberals.
14:03<V453000>it is boring when there is no rage going on at forums
14:03<V453000>or drama at least
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14:05<Pinkbeast>V453: I'll go post about Simuscape, shall I? # joke
14:05<V453000>nah that is a poor topic
14:06<V453000>need something better
14:06<frosch123>shall we release 2.0 to attract a 3.0 topic?
14:07<@peter1138>:)
14:07<@peter1138>OpenTTD 2013
14:08<V453000>:DDD
14:08<V453000>yes please frosch123
14:08<V453000>replace all sprites with unicorns
14:08<V453000>newGRF specs: unicorns: 1 or 0;
14:09<frosch123>ah, yeah, grf version 9 should require a unicorn in the grf
14:09<V453000>difficulty settings: unicorns 1 or 0; (0 closes game)
14:12<frosch123>actually... why wait for 2.0 to open a 3.0 topic?
14:14<V453000>:DDD
14:21<V453000>perhaps some cargo distribution discussion would do
14:23<Pinkbeast>"The OTTD devs should stop wasting their time on such an obsolete game and contribute to P1 Sim"
14:24<V453000>? :D
14:28<V453000>where did you find that treasure?
14:28<frosch123>i would hope he just made it up :)
14:29<V453000>I wouldnt be surprised if he didnt :)
14:30<frosch123>Pinkbeast: anyway, we are all into freerct :)
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14:31<Eddi|zuHause>change the releasename from 1.3.0 to 13.0
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>because it aligns better with years
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14:33<frosch123>hmm, and .0 is released at the end of the first quarter?
14:34<frosch123>or is it just scheduled for the first quarter with the usual delay in software development?
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25085 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-13 18:45:34 UTC)
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14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 7 changes by Eskymak
14:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
14:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
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14:49<@Terkhen>hello
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15:29<Eddi|zuHause>so... since apparently nobody wants to include my proposal into NML, how would i go about patching nml myself on the devzone?
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler, planetmaker: any suggestions?
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>now i know! the version should be 2.13.4!
16:26<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: create a "fork", use this for cets
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: that sounds awfully difficult to set up and maintain
16:27<Ammler>why?
16:27<Ammler>clone, merge, done
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i mean, it requires more than 3 commands to set up if you don't have experience, and it requires manual involvement if the base is updated
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16:29<Ammler>can you imagine a easier way?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i was hoping for a "put 'patch -f -i <blah>' into a build script" or something
16:29<Ammler>yes, do that
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>but it shouldn't be in the makefile
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>so where to put it?
16:29<Ammler>how is that more work than a merge? :-)
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know
16:30<Ammler>clone, nml, patch or whatever you like it
16:30<Ammler>clone nml to eddi-nml
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>i'm really not fluent in hg or devzone
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>if i link you to the patch file, would you set it up?
16:31<Ammler>yes, I could, and you need it for cets?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:32<Ammler>what is so special about the patch, that nml devs don't want it?
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3812/nml_comment2.patch
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4991#change-13334
16:32<Ammler>coldn't it be possible, it is just not done yet?
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>nobody reacted, really... the only reply from people were "i'm not involved enough to judge whether this change is sensible"
16:33<Ammler>and not rejected
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>nobody said anything about rejected
16:34<Ammler>well, I can do that, but actionc is very useless imo :-)
16:34<Ammler>only useful for decompiling
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16:34<Eddi|zuHause>but it's stuck in this state, and i need to move on with a way that doesn't depend on an nml dev reacting
16:35<@Alberth>nml dev is vey much dead
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16:35<Ammler>sounds evil
16:35<@Alberth>I haven't seen either y3xo or hyrundo for ages
16:36<Ammler>then I vote for making eddi nml dev :-P
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>also, i may have another patch next for a really experimental feature that probably should not get into "official" nml at all (yet)
16:36<frosch123>forking is most likely easiest
16:37<Ammler>yes, we can do that anyway
16:37<frosch123>call it "linking nml" or "distributed nml"
16:37<Ammler>what name would you prefer for the fork?
16:37<Ammler>ok
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16:37<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that actionc thingie is only needed for the linking, right?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>yes, effectively
16:38<Ammler>but if you add other features as well
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>for my "workaround"-ish thingie
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16:38<Ammler>maybe better call it something else
16:38<frosch123>hmm, neigther "linking" nor "distributed" can be sanely abbreviated with "e" :p
16:38<Ammler>new-nml :-P
16:39<@Alberth>'linking' is not quite what people consider linking normally, imho
16:39<@Alberth>eddi-nml :p
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16:39<Ammler>yeah, let's call it eddi-nml for now
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not quite sure i like where this discussion is heading :p
16:39<frosch123>hmm, what is a catchy term for dividing a monolithical build process into independent compile units/modules and linking them?
16:39<@Alberth>modular compile?
16:40<frosch123>mnml?
16:40<@Alberth>mege-nml :p
16:40<@Alberth>*mega
16:40<@Alberth>multi-nml
16:41<@Alberth>hmm, something fancy for splitting a problem into pieces..
16:41<frosch123>devide&conquer usually :)
16:41<frosch123>*divide
16:41<Ammler>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eddi-nml
16:42<Ammler>the repo will come up soon...
16:42<@Alberth>the sys-admin has decided :)
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16:42<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: 1. clone that new repo, 2. pull from old nml, 3. add your stuff 4. push
16:42<Ammler>well, I consider my name as a temporary fork...
16:43<frosch123>nothing is more endurable than something temporary
16:43<@Alberth>excactly :)
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>pretty much :)
16:44<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: frosch quite much gave you the manual, how to patch it :-)
16:45<Ammler>do I still need to do it for you?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>depending on how temporary it should be: patch-queue?
16:45<frosch123>that's a pain for the compile farm to catch
16:45<frosch123>i would think
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16:47<Eddi|zuHause>i certainly won't do "branches" or "releases"
16:48<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: how you merge the patch is up to you
16:48<Ammler>devzone compiler just needs a repo which it can build
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>if i have a nml checkout with the patch applied, can i just "push" to the new (empty) repo and it will do stuff?
16:49<Ammler>it should not be that hard to apply a patch and then merge future changes
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>it won't be "hard", but i'm allergic to anything that needs manual input :)
16:50<Ammler>yes, it should, plrease edit the .devzone and disable/remove release build
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>the backup.push as well?
16:51<Ammler>manual input?
16:51<Ammler>yes
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16:51<Ammler>hmm, something very bad happen on our server, someone/something removed all compiler script and the guy which made the backup stuff is quite much absent
16:52<frosch123>someone/something removed the backup guy :o
16:53<Ammler>I guess, the issue happen because we reached quota limit
16:54<Ammler>but no clue how...
16:54<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: do you have ssh access to our repo server?
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i ever tried
16:55<frosch123>if you did not hand out your public key, you won't have access :)
16:55<Ammler>well, I cloned manually nml to eddi-nml for now
16:56<Ammler>you should be able to push now
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>i'll probably break everything now :/
16:58<Ammler>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/.devzone/build/requires <-- edit nml to eddi-nml
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i get a 404 when trying to push to "https://Eddi@push.openttdcoop.org/eddi-nml"
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>(i copied that link from how i set up push for cets)
17:00<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I was hoping to get some input from hirundo and yexo on that patch
17:01<Ammler>yeah, it is an issue on our side, I need that script back :-(
17:01<@planetmaker>Especially as I'm not 100% convinced myself tbh, yet I see the advantage
17:07<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: could you try again (push)
17:07<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I would recommend to use push instead nightly
17:07<Ammler>for triggering building and using on cets
17:07<Ammler>(in that case you would need to change requires from "nml" to "push;eddi-nml"
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>ah, yes, i'll do that
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>of course i didn't set the username before the commits :/
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17:11<Ammler>yeah, you should, would make it easier to pull your changes back to the nml repo, if nml dev like to :-)
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17:12<Eddi|zuHause>"added 2073 changesets with 4857 changes to 331 files (+2 heads)"
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>but the web-repo viewer is really slow at listing the changesets
17:13<Ammler>sounds about right since I deleted the clone and created a empty repo
17:13<Ammler>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/eddi-nml
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17:14<supermop>hi
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that looks right, but https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eddi-nml/repository is only very slowly adding revisions
17:14<Ammler>yep
17:15<Ammler>it needs around 1s per change
17:15<Ammler>redmine is not really fork friendly
17:17<frosch123>better spoon-feed the forks :p
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eddi-nml/releases/ERROR/ <-- that does not look right
17:19<Ammler>I guess, you also need to make a dummy push now, else it might not build the push
17:21<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I would not bother since you wouldn't need it anyway ;-)
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17:40<frosch123>night
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17:41<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i pushed something, but it doesn't show up :/
17:45<@Alberth>RM is a bit slow at times
17:46<@Alberth>the last weekend (and the one before) I had to wait between 10 and 40 minutes before Brot reported changes
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17:47<Eddi|zuHause>ok, the commit now shows up, but no push build
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17:52<@Terkhen>good night
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18:17<andythenorth>hmm
18:17<andythenorth>map-reduce-nml
18:17<andythenorth>no frosch? :P
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18:30<supermop>hey andy, why no passenger station in chips?
18:32-!-Tvel [~Thunderbi@84.40.82.221] has joined #openttd
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>there are plenty of passenger station grfs out there
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18:34<andythenorth>what eddi said
18:34<andythenorth>also I use the default pax station a lot
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>i use newstations mostly
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18:39<andythenorth>bed time eh :P
18:39<andythenorth>bye
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eddi-nml/push/ERROR/r2073/ err... i have no clue what that means
18:50<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: killed by me as you see
18:51<Ammler>I missed the 12.3 release
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>ah...
18:53<Ammler>tumbleweed sucks a bit :-)
18:54<Ammler>it is useless as it is based on a release distro
18:54<Ammler>so you still need kinda upgrade every release
18:59<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I will check tomorrow, sorry :-(
18:59<Ammler>s/a bit/a lot/
19:00<Ammler>good night...
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19:17<ondono88>!password
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19:20<Eddi|zuHause>we haven't had that in a while :p
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19:21<V453000>haha :D
19:23<V453000>!assword
19:24<V453000>hm not entirely idiotproof
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 14 00:00:27 2013