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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-14

---Logopened Thu Mar 14 00:00:27 2013
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01:38<Flygon>"This train requires a brakevan"
01:38<Flygon>But it's already got a locomotive on each end D:
01:38<Flygon>Stupid union movement...
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06:57<Pikka>I especially enjoy the way they explain that it doesn't actually look like that
06:57<Pikka>it only looks that way because of the 24fps camera
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07:04<Pikka>are we doing racing car impressions?
07:39<Flygon>So, we need a 600fps camera, and then a good CRT?
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07:56<Eddi|zuHause>your eyes only see 15-18fps
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07:59<TinoDidriksen> wrong.
08:02<Pikka>your eyes don't see any fps
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08:04<Pikka>but anyway, that water would just look like a splashy fan of water IRL, it's only because the camera catches the water in a particular phase each time that it appears to have a static shape.
08:06<Pikka>this is also why they don't use sodium bulbs or old-fashioned fluorescent tubes in machinery shops ;)
08:07<Pikka>they have a steady flicker which is too fast for the human eye to see, but can make, for example, a spinning saw blade appear to be stationary.
08:08<Pinkbeast>"and then comedy ensued"
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i should phrase that differently: your the receptors of your eyes are slower than any movie fps, which is why movies appear "smooth". it is, however not an "off/on" kind of fps, it's an "integrating" kind, i.e. all light impressions over some time are added up to one single picture in the brain
08:18<__ln__>but you see a clear difference between 24 fps movies and the 48 fps Hobbit.
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08:27<Pikka>hello andy
08:28<andythenorth>hello pikka
08:30<Pikka>what are the haps?
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08:32<andythenorth>almost no haps
08:32<andythenorth>I went to the pub
08:32<andythenorth>now I went to the working
08:33<andythenorth>keine haps
08:33<Pikka>the pub then work
08:33<andythenorth>the pub then sleep then work
08:33<Pikka>oh, well
08:33<Pikka>in that case, carry on
08:33<Pikka>carry on regardless
08:33<andythenorth>is it done yet?
08:33<Pikka>for a given value of it, certainly
08:34<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: around?
08:34<Ammler>you test fails, that is why i failed
08:35<Ammler>you could also disable the whole windows building part
08:35<Pikka>carry on sergeant, too, andythenorth
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>let me read that first :)
08:35<Ammler>just the bottom :-)
08:35<Pikka>with doctor who and bob monkhouse
08:36<Ammler> <-- remove the wine/windows part
08:36<andythenorth>car transporters?
08:36<andythenorth>cement trucks?
08:36<Ammler>(well, not that it matters, would just speed up things...)
08:36<andythenorth>meh wagons
08:37<Pikka>cars on flatwagons
08:37<Pikka>as a gudes subtype and/or vehicles cargo
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: should be fixed
08:37<Pikka>you can leave that to me though, I'll do some cars as part of hoqus or something for the benefit of towncar AI
08:39<Ammler>just run the regression locally, you can also run just one test
08:40<Ammler>next time :-P
08:42<Ammler>hmm, still failed
08:43<Ammler>it is called eddi-nml-r2074-suse1230.noarch.rpm
08:44<Ammler>then it should work
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08:46<Pikka>andythenorth: are you going to do mostly/exclusively UK wagons, if any? :)
08:46<andythenorth>not sure yet
08:46<andythenorth>wholly lacking inspration
08:46<Pikka>just want to make sure we don't duplicate an effort
08:46<andythenorth>what other countrees are you working on?
08:46<andythenorth>North America?
08:46<Pikka>once I've got the UK and US locos done I'll let you play with the grfs
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08:46<Pikka>might be inspiring
08:48<andythenorth>we have a Hornby catalogue here in the office for work-related reasons
08:48<andythenorth>maybe I look in that :P
08:49<Pikka>maybe ;)
08:50<Pikka>don't worry about doing loads, btw, because I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to do those yet
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08:56<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: I would fix it on nml and you pull it, ok?
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i'm kinda busy the next few minutes, so i won't react
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>just do what you think :)
08:59<Ammler>well, committed, you can either pull or whatever :-P
09:01<Ammler>or I do... :-)
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>whatever that did, it hopelessly confused my checkout :/
09:09<Ammler>hmm, I thought, you don't have time?
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, that occasionally changes :)
09:11<Ammler> guess, the support for build branches is broken :-)
09:12<Ammler>or I am just stupid, it is suffix, not prefix :-(
09:13<Ammler>oh, and we need a new grfcodec
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>how do i discard an attempted merge?
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09:16<Ammler>hg up to whatever
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>i have done hg merge but not hg commit, and now whatever i try it says "uncommited merge"
09:16<Ammler>what did I break with the merge?
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>not, you, i did...
09:17<Ammler>then revert
09:17<Ammler>uncommited changes
09:17<Ammler>hg up -c
09:17<Ammler>etc. :-)
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>no workie
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>> hg up -r2046
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>Abbruch: outstanding uncommitted merges
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause>not -c
09:21<Ammler>ah well, my mind is case insensitiv
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: the tar.gz still have the wrong name?
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>"nml" instead of "eddi-nml"?
09:23<Ammler>not such file in the list afaik
09:24<Ammler>oh, does it matter?
09:24<Ammler>I guess, that would need editing
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>it seems wrong/confusing
09:24<Ammler>well, it does not matter for devzone, it is your fork, do what you like with it :-P
09:25<Ammler>I would not change too much things on the fork, easier to pull back
09:27<Ammler>oh, and btw. pull cets :-P
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>warning: i now break everything(tm)
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09:34<Eddi|zuHause>oh, Belugas lives an hour earlier than usual :)
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09:39<@Belugas>we're living under US time now :S
09:39<@Belugas>hi Eddi|zuHause
09:42<__ln__>i thought they didn't have any territorial demands against you
09:47<@Belugas>tell that to our pal Steven Harper :S
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>something is not right :/
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>cets.rgf only 27kb :/
10:03<Sacro>stupid coworker, check whether a subnet is used locally before getting a VPN to use it
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10:08<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: can the make on devzone be "verbose"?
10:09<Ammler>it is what you define
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>thank you, tautology cat.
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i might need some temporary playground to figure out what's different on the devzone build environment than my own build environment
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i think dependencies are called in the wrong order
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>which may be my fault
10:12<Ammler> <-- this is how "default" nml projects are build
10:13<Ammler>either you tell me what to change or you copy it to your project and customize
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: the problem is, i don't know what to change without trying it out
10:15<Ammler>could it be a issue of grfcodec?
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: so i'd need some test system at the "make" step
10:15<Ammler>since it has a new libpng
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: no, something before that step is wrong
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>the cets.nfo on the bundles page has empty engine files in it
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>so something in the generation or assembly process went wrong/different
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: that you pass "--nfo cets.nfo" in NML_FLAGS sounds fishy, though
10:18<Ammler>make %{?_smp_mflags} bundle_zip ZIP="7za a" ZIP_FLAGS="-tzip -mx9" NML_FLAGS="-c --nfo %{name}.nfo"
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>yes, why do you do that?
10:19<Ammler>well, some wanted to have nfo for debug
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>it may be redirecting the output of my intermediate compile steps to the wrong file
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>because i pass NML_FLAGS there as well
10:20<Ammler>maybe easier to use your own spec then?
10:20<Ammler>not sure, if we should change the default nml spec
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'll remove NML_FLAGS from that step in the makefile instead
10:22<Ammler>just copy theat nml.spec to cets/.devzone/build/
10:22<Ammler>and customize to your needs
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>but i still need a fast/interactive way to test if that change will solve anything
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: will -j<X> do anything on the compile farm?
10:25<Ammler>theoretically it should force to -j1, not sure if you can overrule
10:26<Ammler>part of %{?_smp_mflags} afaik too
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10:41<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: but if you keep -c, it will still overrule your flag
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>that shouldn't do any harm for now
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>but it didn't solve anything either :/
10:55<Ammler>the nml on devzone is fine?
10:55<Ammler>you use the same locally?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure
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11:03<Eddi|zuHause>but if the nmlc steps would fail, then there should be errors about that, right?
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11:10<Ammler>well, you said, the nfo looks bad
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but it's the combination script inbetween that gets confused because of non-existing files
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>but i think i found the problem
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11:12<Ammler>also since you use a custom spec, you might also configure the publisher (file files)
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, next step :)
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>first, correctness, then completeness :)
11:13<Ammler> <-- with comments
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>hah! finally a large grf :)
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11:27<Eddi|zuHause>now, i count 3 bugs: the tenders are broken, the 32bpp-template-graphics are broken, and the extra purchase text is broken :/
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12:10<Maverick>Hey guys, setting up a chilli cargo dist server for a bit
12:10<Maverick>think someone can test join for me?
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12:10<Mavzor>hey welshdragon
12:11<welshdragon>When I edit a .sav to a .scn using NotePad, and try to open with OpenTTD it says it's been made with a newer version, how can I get around this?
12:12<TinoDidriksen>...using notepad? Aren't save files binary?
12:12<welshdragon>(On my Mac, I had no issues editing .sav's to .scn)
12:12<TinoDidriksen>Probably using a better editor there.
12:12<welshdragon>No, you can edit the extension, and they will open
12:13<TinoDidriksen>Sure, but extension has nothing to do with notepad.
12:14<welshdragon>true. what I meant is that you open a .sav in notepad, and save as .scn (and VV) On a Mac with TextEdit, the conversion works
12:14<TinoDidriksen>Why open it at all? Just copy and rename.
12:14<TinoDidriksen>Notepad will screw up all the bytes.
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12:15<welshdragon>so I guess I'll have top get Notepad++
12:15<TinoDidriksen>...or just don't open the file!
12:16<welshdragon>as your suggestion TinoDidriksen didn't work, the file is still seen by Windows and OpenTTD as .sav ...
12:16<TinoDidriksen>Enable showing extensions, change the extension.
12:18<welshdragon>*pumps fist* That works, thanks TinoDidriksen
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue why the 32bpp graphics are broken :/
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>especially why only the "template" graphics are broken, the vehicles with real graphics are fine
13:11<SigHunter>is there a way to have "cloned" vehicles automatically set "shared orders" with the one it was cloned from?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, hold CTRL while cloning
13:14<SigHunter>awesome, thx
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>ugh! i think i have a suspicion why the purchase text is not working: nml is "optimizing out" unused strings, so the references are all wrong :/
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13:51*NGC3982 puts stuff in Eddi.
13:52*Eddi|zuHause puts NGC3982 in ignore list
13:55<NGC3982>By the way, Sim City has taken my soul and does not seem to be keen on returning it.
13:56<NGC3982>Yet, i'm still failing miserably at it.
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14:14<Eddi|zuHause>is there a less crazy workaround other than making a "switch(dummy_strings, STORE_TEMP(string(STR_1) | string(STR_2 | ...)"?
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25086 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2013-03-14 18:45:08 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 34 changes by Joel_A
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16:53<@Terkhen>good night
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17:32<LordAro>evening all
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17:46<Eddi|zuHause>"nmlc ERROR: There are not enough registers available to perform all required computations in switch blocks. Please reduce the complexity of your code."
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17:46<Eddi|zuHause>so much for that idea :/
17:50<@peter1138>much simpler
17:50<@peter1138>you can't write valid nfo that won't compile :p
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17:58<LordAro>10GB for TF2? jeez...
18:00*LordAro needs to sort out his partitions before serious linux gaming can occur
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18:12<@peter1138>have they made steam for linux yet?
18:12<@peter1138>or is it still steam for ubuntu (but we call it linux anyway)
18:14<@peter1138>ah, still the latter
18:14<frosch123>in ottd you can have steam since 1830 with the right train set
18:14<@peter1138>har har
18:17<TinoDidriksen>It's apparently easy enough to use the Ubuntu package on other distros.
18:18<@peter1138>manually unpacking a .deb? great stuff. just give me a tarball instead o_O
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18:22<@peter1138>heh, "nice" it automatically installs their pgp key as trusted o_O
18:23<blathijs>peter1138: Why would they do that? Users will have installed their pgp key in advance to verify the .deb integrity right and not install random downloaded packages just like that? Oh wait..
18:24<@peter1138>also it's all 32bit
18:24<@peter1138>in this day & age
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18:28<LordAro>ha, you sound like linux torvalds complaining about c++ :P
18:29<LordAro>it's automatic key presses :L
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18:33<@peter1138>when linus complains about something he has good reasons
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause>now i'm getting too insane :/
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>i wanted a #define that whenever i redefined it, would add some character to it
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>like, unary counting
19:31<V453000>there is no "too insane"
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19:53<Eddi|zuHause>however, i found a way that works without counting
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20:26<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: it doesn't create tickets/send emails anymore if compiling fails?
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21:21<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: as said, the compiler scripts were gone, I have no access to the backup yet
21:21<Ammler>so some scripts/config is harder to recover right now
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 15 00:00:29 2013