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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-15

---Logopened Fri Mar 15 00:00:29 2013
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04:25<andythenorth>ooh
04:25<andythenorth>new ships
04:26<andythenorth>also
04:26<andythenorth>do we actually explain that loading all grfs at once is Not A Good Idea
04:26<andythenorth>or do we just think it's bleeding obvious?
04:26<andythenorth>because it probably isn't obvious :P
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04:41<Flygon>GRFs are like components of a computer
04:41<Flygon>Using two seperate CPU's needs careful care
04:42<andythenorth>do players know that? :P
04:43<andythenorth>the weird thing is, it's not even easy to activate all
04:43<andythenorth>if you download everything from bananas (which we think players do)
04:43<andythenorth>then you have to double-click on every grf in newgrf settings window to add it
04:43<andythenorth>that's a lot of clicking :o
04:43<Flygon>You can only load 64 at once...
04:44<andythenorth>orly? :)
04:45*andythenorth didn't know that
04:45<andythenorth>I have about 9 in most games :P
04:46<dihedral>hello
04:46<dihedral>:-)
04:46<andythenorth>lo
04:57<Pikka>andythenorth: the kind of person it isn't obvious to is the kind of person who doesn't read instructions anyway
04:57<andythenorth>I wasn't thinking of instructions so much as nagging
04:58<andythenorth>or a button 'wtf grfs?'
04:58<andythenorth>for those who might actually care to learn something
04:58<Pikka>yebbut
04:58<andythenorth>when I first found grfs I stuck loads in :P
04:58<andythenorth>not so much vehicles, because it wasn't possible :P
04:58<andythenorth>but I tried PBI and Canset industries together
04:58<andythenorth>kind of worked :P
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06:12<Eddi|zuHause>oh.... i have a genuine heisenbug :/
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06:24<Eddi|zuHause>i have a program that doesn't run with "pythonw.exe", but as soon as i run it with redirected stdout to a logfile or under "normal" python, it starts up flawlessly :/
06:28<Ammler>Hallo Leute :-)
06:30<__ln__>hallo piece of leute
06:31<St3f>Gutentag
06:37<heffer>grüße
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>bonjour
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06:40<SpComb>paeivaeae
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>that's not a word :p
06:41<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: unicode shenanigans?
06:41<SpComb>python on *nix has an annoying thing with `print` automagically encoding unicode to sys.stdout
06:42<SpComb>so your script printing non-ascii works fine when run with stdout to a terminal with a suitable locale, but as soon as you redirect stdout to a file, boom, UnicodeEncodeError
06:42<SpComb>but that would be the other way around
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, you'd assume that unicode would be irrelevant if you don't see the output anyway
06:44<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: maybe pythonw explodes on anything accessing sys.stdout
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>that could be
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09:25<@Belugas>heloo
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>you have as much snow as i do?
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>:)
09:27<@Belugas>hello sir Eddi|zuHause :)
09:27<@Belugas>no, in fact, no...
09:27<@Belugas>it's cold a bit, but the snow has melted quite a lot
09:28<@Belugas>so when i came back from Cuba, it was ALMOST like spring
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09:38<welshdragon>Would there be any objections to me creating a definitive List of Patches on TT-F and the Wiki? Could be useful if someone suggests a patch that has been done, but is 1000+ revisions out of date, or for wannabe patchers to make a better version. This also ties in with planetnmaker asking for patches to be submitted to FlySpray/
09:39<@Belugas>why are you asking, Eddi|zuHause? You have a lot of the freaking white stuff?
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, we've had yet another "totally sudden appearances of winter" this past week
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09:48<Eddi|zuHause>did anyone debug yet why the 32bpp sprites are garbled?
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10:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly convinced it's a grfcodec bug
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>because it works correctly if i use nmlc to create the grf
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>where does one report grfcodec bugs?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>ah, found it :)
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10:31<jonty-comp>java's ability to run about 57 concurrent installs never ceases to piss me off
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10:44<liq3>hey, am I safe in assuming that more distance = more profit?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>yes-ish
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>you shouldn't be too slow
10:44<liq3>well, I tried doing the math, and even the 144km/h steam train seems to have optimal distance around 600 for things like coal...
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10:45<Eddi|zuHause>there were graphs on some wiki
10:45<liq3>yeh the openttd wiki has some.
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>i never really bothered...
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>why exactly does nml define (feat 0) prop 1D multiple times?
10:58<@Terkhen>hello
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11:24<heffer>any opengfx buildsystem pro knowing what's going on here? http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/3036/5123036/build.log
11:24<heffer>looks like some component is too new (and thus incompatible)
11:26<heffer>i see. it's http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5489
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11:57<blathijs>Ammler: What's changed in OpenGFX 0.4.6.1? It looks like it is 0.4.6 changed to compile with nml 0.2.4, but there is nothing in the changelog about this (http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases/0.4.6.1/changelog.txt)
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25087 trunk/src/lang/danish.txt (2013-03-15 18:45:07 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 3 changes by beruic
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14:55<Wolf01>o/
14:56<__ln__>/o
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15:06<@Alberth>\o Wolf01
15:10<Wolf01>nice, my router firewall doesn't accept the port 6881, duplicate port it says..
15:10<@Alberth>lol, you have two ports 6881? :)
15:12<Wolf01>that's the unique port I can't set, both the ranges 1-6880 and 6882-65535 work
15:13<Wolf01>it 'might' be because of uPNP, but I have it disabled since... I purchased it
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15:16<@Alberth>sounds like a non-standard setup that they forgot to implement properly :)
15:17<Wolf01>yeah, maybe they were trying to discourage the use of torrent
15:20<Wolf01>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hxmiesa/6298647983/ lovely
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15:33<Wolf01>video drivers requires reboot :(
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: UGH! i got 2000 commit emails for the nml push :/
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>but something is wrong with my mail client, it won't auth :/
15:39<@Alberth>That was one of the first settings I changed :)
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15:48<andythenorth>bonjour
15:52<Wolf01>hello andy
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: well, usually i do want to know when other people change something
15:54<@Alberth>hi andy
15:55<andythenorth>let's see what's in forums...
15:55<@Alberth>maybe you can disable sending emails for things you do yourself?
15:55<andythenorth>what are you getting emailed about?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: every nml commit ever made
15:56<andythenorth>ho
15:56<andythenorth>is that from redmine?
15:57<andythenorth>or is there some other commit bot?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: maybe it needs an exception for "old" commits?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: or maybe it should be per push, and not per commit?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: is that something that can be achieved?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>like, a summary if a push is very large?
15:58<andythenorth>email is a dead thing anyway :)
15:58<andythenorth>I set an autoresponder in December, and haven't been actively checking mail since
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16:02<Eddi|zuHause>i like emails. not many people email me, so i can use them for productive tasks :)
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's just this one thing where it got out of hand
16:04<andythenorth>so anyone using CHIPS with grain cargo?
16:08<@Alberth>I found a bug in loading with feeders before I got beyond livestock :p
16:10<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but it seems RM has more bugs, like changing issues of a different project
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: well, it's not technically a "bug", more like an "overzealous feature"
16:14<@Alberth>yeah, but I was pondering to make a nice commit message like "fixes #1 #2 #3\nfixes #4 #5 #6..." and so on :p
16:14<@Alberth>should be very good for all projects :p
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16:33<andythenorth>Alberth: if you could close all my issues with your commits, that would be good, thanks ;)
16:34<andythenorth>this one for example, is boring :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5249
16:35<@Alberth>I fear I'd start with NML2 instead
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16:36<@Alberth>except I do not know how NML1 works :p
16:37<andythenorth>magic of course :)
16:37<andythenorth>it's just a lot of python
16:37<andythenorth>how hard can it be? o_O
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's just a big yacc script :p
16:37<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I haven't kept up with your partial compile effort, how is it going?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>but it needs to be recoded in some better optimizable language
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: very hackish
16:38<andythenorth>hacks are ok, if they're known and obvious
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: very bad hacks
16:38<andythenorth>:(
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>last i had to insert a big dummy switch at the beginning and end of the vehicle-specific code, to keep all strings and global callback ids
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>and there's some grfcodec bug that garbles most 32bpp sprites
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5276
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>in the end, the total compile time is much longer (because the "header" part must be processed every time), but i don't run in the excessive memory usage case anymore. and i can use -j6
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>but all in all, it's a nice case study on what may be necessary to build this into nml itself
16:46<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I wondered how you'd cope with the generic code / switches etc
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>i should maybe write some test that checks whether the header part is really the same for all partial outputs
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17:13<frosch123>night
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17:22<@Belugas>good weekend all
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18:05<andythenorth>bed time
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18:53<artisticMink>Heya, trains continously ram my road vehicles. Any way to avoid that except building bridges over every road?
18:54<Wolf01>PBS signalling, iirc they reserve the track and close the level crossing before the train arrives
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause>that only really helps for single track rails, and when the signals are some distance from the crossing
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause>(or if you use the adjacent crossings patch)
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19:02<artisticMink>I will look into both. Thanks.
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19:37<Wolf01>'night
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19:43<@Terkhen>good night
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20:55<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: it will be done as soon as I get the patch :-)
20:55<Ammler>good night
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
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23:43<Dewin>Wow, I still have this IRC channel saved. Convenient.
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23:49<Dewin>I'm getting into ottd again and decide I wanted to play in trunk... but have a few patches I miss, and a few improvements I've thought about making. So I'm diving in source at the moment, and *think* I have a working cargodist + automatic timetable/separation build.
23:51<Dewin>I'm pondering the idea of some more advanced options for vehicle orders, namely the idea for a vehicle to force another vehicle to depart a station early under some circumstances. Then I saw the "REF_ORDER (all REFs are currently limited to 16 bits!!)" comment on the ORder struct -- since the struct is quite clearly more than 16 bits wide, I'm assuming that refers to the number of orders and not how much information they contain?
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 16 00:00:30 2013