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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-19

---Logopened Tue Mar 19 00:00:35 2013
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01:18<Bonez305>Hello
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03:32<Ammler>Good morning :-)
03:33<Ammler>topic still has RC2, btw.
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03:39<Bonez305>can anyone assist me in setting up a server on linux ?
03:41<Bonez305>no ? :(
03:43<__ln__>a better approach is to tell what you have done so far, and what has been the problem.
03:43<__ln__>also there shall be no space in front of the questionmark in english orthography.
03:44<Bonez305><--not too good with grammar
03:44<Bonez305>Can we just say I have not done anything?
03:45<Bonez305>I was able to get the server running but it was version 1.0.4 i believe.
03:49<__ln__>i think there's some generic linux binary available for download.
03:49<__ln__>at openttd.org.
03:57<Bonez305>Think is i would need some kind of step-by-step, all new to linux period.
03:57<Bonez305>Thing*
04:08<V453000>a person just autoreplaced all of his wagons to brake vans on our server ......
04:08<V453000>:D
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04:14<@peter1138>:D
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04:21<@peter1138>god i hate our audio mixing code
04:21<@peter1138>it's so... cruddy
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04:53<CornishPasty>I blame you, peter1138
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06:40<TheCoach>Hello
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07:06<@planetmaker>hi
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07:11<Celestar>gday :)
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07:51<TheCoach>I'm making a new scenario
07:52<TheCoach>real world based and all
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07:55<TheCoach>Currently i'm assemblign the list of newgrfs to use with it
07:55<TheCoach>i'm looking for a good trolleybus set
07:55<TheCoach>this is prettymuch an essential thing
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>i have never even considered using a trolleybus set, let alone searched for whether one exists
07:58<TheCoach>I'll have to dig trough all those bananas myself then
07:59<TheCoach>i cannot skip this because uin reality at least half the major cities in the region i'm covering have trolleybus systems
07:59<TheCoach>so i cannot just exclude that
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>i presume everyone considering creating a trolleybus set is waiting for newgrf-roadtypes
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08:03<TheCoach>probably
08:03<@planetmaker>trolley bus... a bus which is attached to overhead electricity?
08:04<@planetmaker>not sure they exist really
08:05<@planetmaker>within OpenTTD
08:07<TheCoach>there's a set but i won't use it
08:07<TheCoach>it's kind of a hackjob and replaces lightrail tracks
08:08<TheCoach>i'd be ok with it if it had decent looking trolleybusses but the horizontal views are drawn wrongly and it makes them look very bad so there goes this option
08:11<TheCoach>I need to recode my trainset one of these days
08:11<TheCoach>the artwork for it still looks rather neat but the way it's coded is just bad
08:11<V453000>planetmaker: there is a trolleybus newGRF, they replace trams
08:12<TheCoach>too bad I don't know anything about grf coding and all that i did was done trough grf maker
08:12<@planetmaker>it can be learnt ;-)
08:12<@planetmaker>no-one knew from the age they were born :D
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>TheCoach: you might want to go through the NML tutorial then
08:14<V453000>and *some* also have the talent to screw everything up, *they* still reach some results :P
08:15<TheCoach>I'll have to take a look at NML because the hex editing business in traditional nfo coding just always made my head spin
08:16<@planetmaker>hm, did we ever try the Korean NewGRFs, V453000 ?
08:17<TheCoach>NML looks like C, I understand C, this might actually work
08:21<TheCoach>so basically what the problem with my set is
08:22<TheCoach>is that while it's balanced as i want it to be and all the attributes for everythign are fine
08:22<TheCoach>i didn't know how to make articulated engines in grf maker
08:23<TheCoach>so you've got 2M62, it's a douyble configuration of M62 and ideally you'd just buy the engine and get both units in the proper arrangement
08:23<TheCoach>Now since I am dumb, in my set you frist buy unit A and then buy unit B and only then do you have a complete locomotive
08:25<TheCoach>all i need to do is make it so you buy the complete set. There's a total of 3 diesel locos that work this way and one steam engine that should automatically pack a tender with it
08:26<V453000>pm: not me but I wanted to :d
08:26<V453000>train set and some town names
08:26<@planetmaker>articulated vehicles seem to be what you look for, TheCoach
08:27<V453000>ooh I remember now
08:27<V453000>korean train set - a ton of seemingly very similar passenger trains
08:28<TheCoach>i'm looking at the prospect of having to recode the entire set in nml just for that and i can already see how well THAT goes
08:28<@planetmaker>well. you can't really use NML to update a set not written in it
08:29<V453000>coding in NML is real easy TheCoach
08:29<V453000>you will have it done quickly
08:30<V453000>you can look at NUTS if you need to see how each feature is used
08:30<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/changes/nuts.nml I use only one nml file so you can ctrl+f there quickly
08:31<V453000>by the way, making trains "break" with certain lengths is quite bad for playing
08:31<TheCoach>i do not want to do it
08:31<TheCoach>what i mean is
08:32<TheCoach>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/2M62_in_Vilnius_depot.jpg
08:32<TheCoach>this sort of a diesel enginwe
08:32<TheCoach>it's 2 units
08:32<V453000>yes, articulated vehicle
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>TheCoach: automatically attaching a second part is easy, in the graphics-section of the vehicle write "artociöated_part: (extra_callback_info1 == 1)?other_vehicle:CB_RESULT_NO_MORE_ARTICULATED_PARTS;" or similar
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>ährgs
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>"articulated_part"
08:33<TheCoach>I guess If I ever want to update this thing i'll have to recode it anyways
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>possibly fit in a "return"
08:33<@planetmaker>the photo though looks like if each engine could perfectly well work on its own
08:34<TheCoach>very impractical though, you'd have to somehow reverse it
08:34<TheCoach>every time you want to go the other way
08:34<TheCoach>also they are synchronized
08:34<TheCoach>i have never even seen a photo of one operating or even just beign dragged arround detached from the other unit
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well obviously there is a version that runs on its own...
08:35<TheCoach>yes it's called M62
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>also i vaguely remember there being a 3-part version
08:35<TheCoach>yes crazzie ruskies had those
08:35<TheCoach>and i even saw a picture of a 4 unit one ages ago
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08:43<Ristovski>planetmaker: ok, I am still not a translator, lol
08:43<Ristovski>and yes, I did relog
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>i'll go screw up my system even more than it already is :/
08:44<Ristovski>lol
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09:06<+michi_cc>@topic set 1 1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC3
09:06-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
09:12<TheCoach>http://s23.postimage.org/4ryvpnrcp/Unnamed_1944_01_01.png
09:13<TheCoach>This is how the map looks like now
09:13<Bonez305>how big is that ?
09:13<TheCoach>512x512 i think
09:14<Bonez305>BS
09:14<Bonez305>That thing looks humungous.
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09:15<TheCoach>ah yes
09:15<TheCoach>1k by 1k
09:15<TheCoach>i underestimated it
09:16<TheCoach>the tiny corner of poland i nthe bottom left should have 10 times the ammount of lakes really
09:17<TheCoach>i'll have to try and solve that problem
09:17<TheCoach>it's hard to pin down where bodies of water should be
09:22<Bonez305>dang that map looks really big i thought it would be 2k by 2k
09:23<Bonez305>2048x2048*
09:26<Ristovski>hmm, planetmaker: restarted browser twice, logged out/back in like 10 times, still says Im not a translator
09:33<@Belugas>HELLO
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09:43<@planetmaker>odd, Ristovski...
09:43<@planetmaker>HI BELUGAS! ;-)
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09:44<Ristovski>planetmaker: yeah, what shall I do now?
09:44<__ln__>Ristovski: you mean "I'm"
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09:48<@planetmaker>if I only knew...
09:49<@Belugas>sir planetmaker :)
09:54<Ristovski>planetmaker: could you try deleting me and adding me again to the translator list?
10:03<@planetmaker>That's about very unlikely to work... that's not windows
10:04<@planetmaker>but you could try
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10:38<Ristovski>planetmaker: lol, well, did you try turning it off and back on? </applesupport>
10:42<peter1139></itcrowdsupport?
10:42<peter1139>-?+>
10:45<Ristovski>lol
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11:03<Ristovski>planetmaker: finally, worked
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11:08<Ristovski>how should I translate errors, they wouldnt make sense
11:11<@planetmaker>hu?
11:12<Ristovski>planetmaker: I cant really translate the errors strings, they wouldnt make sense, Ill try tho
11:12<@planetmaker>why wouldn't they make sense?
11:13<Ristovski>planetmaker: well, I cant really fine the exact words in macedonian
11:13<Ristovski>find*
11:14<@planetmaker>translation doesn't mean to translate word for word ;-)
11:14<@planetmaker>it means to convey the message so that people understand it in that language
11:14<Ristovski>lol, I know
11:15<@planetmaker>and yes, I know that some things are pretty hard to translate if there's no appropriate word in the target language
11:16<@planetmaker>given that the macedonian user base probably is not gigantically large, a forum thread likely would not get that much attention as would be helpful, I fear
11:16<@planetmaker>It helped me in translation to German though, both a thread in tt-forums as well as in the German forums
11:18<Ristovski>ok
11:18<Ristovski>planetmaker: Ill try to convince some of my friends to help too, since there is too much work for just one person :D
11:19<@planetmaker>sometimes it's really useful to actually find the string in its ingame context. It often also gives an idea on how to translate
11:19<Ristovski>yeah, that too
11:20<Ristovski>ive done .3% so far
11:21<Ristovski>planetmaker: do vehicle names have to be translated too?
11:21<@planetmaker>well... :-)
11:21<@planetmaker>Depends
11:21<@planetmaker>Uhl coal truck -> Uhl Kohlelaster
11:22<Ristovski>ah, I get it
11:22<@planetmaker>Dinger 2000 -> Dinger 2000
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11:24<@planetmaker>I did not translate railroad engine names
11:24<@planetmaker>one could as they're partially speaking names... but meh
11:26<Ristovski>also, when are the translated strings merged?
11:26<Ristovski>every week?
11:26<@planetmaker>every day
11:26<Ristovski>oh, ok
11:26<@planetmaker>19:45 CET
11:27<@planetmaker>thus the nightly built at 20h CET will have the strings from the past 24:15h
11:27<Ristovski>oh nice
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12:23<peter1139>hmm
12:23<peter1139>can we include straight GPL3 code?
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
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12:49<peter1139>thought not
12:49<peter1139>which makes linking to it awkward right?
12:50<peter1139>(cos we'd need to distribute it)
12:54<@planetmaker>what you're up to, peter1139 ?
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13:01<@Terkhen>hello
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13:13<@planetmaker>hallo terjesc
13:13<@planetmaker>grr... hallo Terkhen :-)
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13:45<@Alberth>evenink
13:46<Rubidium>ahoi
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14:25<peter1139>planetmaker, thinking better resampling
14:31<Bonez305>Can someone help me set up a openttd server on debian ?
14:31<Bonez305><---newb
14:31<ToBeFree>yes
14:31<ToBeFree>:-)
14:31<ToBeFree>1. open a ssh connection (guess what.^^)
14:31<Bonez305>done
14:31<ToBeFree>oh wait,
14:32<ToBeFree>ah ok; so you have a server for that
14:32<ToBeFree>nice. :-)
14:32<Bonez305>Mhm
14:32<ToBeFree>we'll run it as a daemon
14:32<ToBeFree>+ logging :-)
14:32<ToBeFree>now, if you haven't already, sudo apt-get install openttd
14:32<Bonez305>You lost me. not good with linux yet :D
14:32<ToBeFree>no problem^^
14:33<ToBeFree>daemon = running in the background, no interaction needed;
14:33<Bonez305>screen ?
14:33<ToBeFree>screen?!
14:33<ToBeFree>logging = you will have a file containing all information about the running server
14:33<ToBeFree>okay. I assume you know what apt-get is? :-)
14:34<Bonez305>Mhm
14:34<ToBeFree>ok, just enter the following command to install openttd then:
14:34<ToBeFree>sudo apt-get install openttd
14:34<ToBeFree>if you haven't already^^
14:34<ToBeFree>next step: running that program :D
14:34<Bonez305>that will install a 1.0.4 version i believe
14:34<ToBeFree>cd ~/.openttd
14:34<ToBeFree>Bonez305: oh, Debian. right. Might not be the newest version; let's use a .deb from the page
14:35<Bonez305>downloaded
14:35<Bonez305>:D
14:35<ToBeFree>you have the .deb?
14:35<ToBeFree>great, just enter:
14:35<Bonez305>Mhm
14:35<ToBeFree>sudo dpkg -i package.deb
14:35<ToBeFree>should install it for you. :-)
14:35<Bonez305>the thing is i havea VPS server so the deb file isnt on there. where should I place the deb file ?
14:35<ToBeFree>ah
14:36<ToBeFree>download it on the VPS directly:
14:36<ToBeFree>wget http://link.to.file
14:36<Bonez305>ah
14:36<ToBeFree>(downloads it to the current directory)
14:36<ToBeFree>otherwise, to transfer files for other needs, I suggest FileZilla,
14:36<Bonez305>Thats my question though, does it matter where it goes ?
14:36<ToBeFree>it supports SSH connections, even with keys
14:36<ToBeFree>Bonez305: no
14:36<ToBeFree>:D
14:37<ToBeFree>it's absolutely unimportant where you download that; it will be installed in the right place by dpkg
14:37<Bonez305>so just drop it in the /root directory ?
14:37<ToBeFree>umm, if you want to :-) sure
14:37<ToBeFree>I also assume you have a non-root user to run openttd as? :-)
14:38<ToBeFree>can be your normal user if you have one
14:38<ToBeFree>or do you always connect as root?
14:38<Bonez305>u mean my /usr folder ?
14:38<Bonez305>I always connect as root
14:38<ToBeFree>your /home folder. ;-)
14:38<ToBeFree>uh
14:39<ToBeFree>I strongly recommend against connecting as root;
14:39<ToBeFree>at least you use SSH keys and disabled password logins, I hope
14:40<@Alberth>in fact, use root as little as possible
14:40<__ln__>it's good to run as root since there aren't enough open spam relays in the world yet.
14:40<Bonez305>Sorry im all new to linux
14:40<Bonez305>:/
14:40<ToBeFree>no problem^^
14:42<ToBeFree>__ln__: lol
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25110 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-19 18:45:31 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
14:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 1 changes by micropro_cz
14:45<@DorpsGek>dutch - 1 changes by habell
14:45<@DorpsGek>icelandic - 20 changes by Stimrol
14:45<@DorpsGek>macedonian - 17 changes by Ristovski
14:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 1 changes by micropro_cz
14:46<ToBeFree>:-/ that was a question made for me and it wasn't answerable because of Microsoft. I begin to hate that company
14:47<@Alberth>don't, invest your time and effort in making a viable alternative
14:48<@Alberth>that hits them much harder :p
14:52<ToBeFree>who is them
14:52<ToBeFree>ah
14:52<ToBeFree>misread^^
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14:55<Wolf01>moin
14:55<frosch123>ciao
14:56<Stimrol>hello, anyone know where this string appears ingame --> STR_FEEDER_INCOME
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14:56<frosch123>likely as raising text effect over vehicles
14:58<Stimrol>like if I hover the mouse over a car or train?
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>no, when the vehicle arrives at a station and is ordered to "transfer"
14:59<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
15:00<Stimrol>no it only shows transfer : $$ but this is like this {YELLOW}Transfer: {CURRENCY_LONG}{WHITE} / {GREEN}Income: {CURRENCY_LONG}
15:01<frosch123>i guess it is supposed to be displayed when the last vehicle arrives
15:01<@Alberth>when you deliver some cargoes, and transfer some other cargoes perhaps?
15:01<frosch123>which is part of transfers
15:01<frosch123>but lately that part of the code is very broken, so it might now show it :p
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>when you have a mixed cargo train and order it to "unload". and only one of the cargos is accepted at this station, then it can show this combined effect
15:03<Stimrol>this is some of the new translation strings. I checked with both car witch had transfer order then I followed a train which picked it up and the train only showed income.
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>(or when you use cargod*st)
15:03<Stimrol>okay, that explains it, thanks
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16:39<Bonez305>where would one install the opengfx, opensfx, open msx files on a debian server ? ./openttd ?
16:40<FLHerne>Bonez305: ~/.openttd/baseset, IIRC
16:40<FLHerne>The README section 4.2 knows :P
16:40<Bonez305>ah so its under baseset
16:41<FLHerne>I know ogfx is, not perfectly sure on the other two
16:42<FLHerne>Sound Sets: baseset (or a subdirectory thereof)
16:42<FLHerne>Music Sets: baseset (or a subdirectory thereof)
16:42<@planetmaker>all are basesets
16:43<@planetmaker>and... debian package manager installs them just fine, if you tell it to install openttd
16:43<@planetmaker>so basically you could do "sudo apt-get install openttd" and you're set
16:44<Bonez305>well when i did that it installed 1.0.4 :/
16:46<Bonez305>nice its working :D
16:47<Bonez305>now to mess with the config a bit
16:47<Bonez305>If I could only find that lol
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>config file is only there if you ran openttd once and exited normally
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>or just copy one from your client to the place where you just put the baseset
16:52<Bonez305>hrmm where would it be on my PC ? i cant seem to find it
16:54<@Alberth>it's documented in the do-not-readme: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L266
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17:17<Superuser>OMFG 1.3 WILL BE RELEASED SOON RIGHT???
17:18<frosch123>no, it's canceled
17:19<frosch123>blame andy
17:19<Superuser>waht
17:19<TrueBrain>postponed till a new pope gets ellected
17:19<Superuser>anyway I was trying to get some last minute translations in mr frosch
17:20<Superuser>I need you to find where STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_DEFAULT (message = "Default") is
17:20<TrueBrain>IN THE CODE!
17:21<TrueBrain>I am not helping, am I?
17:21<TrueBrain>hmmm
17:21<TrueBrain>I should walk out again then
17:21<TrueBrain>ssttt, I Was never here
17:21*Ristovski cleans up after TrueBrain
17:21<Superuser>please help
17:21<Ristovski>who? no no, mr TrueBrain no here
17:21<Superuser>TrueBrain: not helping
17:21<Ristovski>Superuser: what OS?
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17:23<Ristovski>Superuser: cant find that anywhere
17:24<__ln__>Ristovski: you mean "can't"
17:24<Ristovski>nope, I mean "cant"
17:24<__ln__>there's no such word in english.
17:25*Terkhen understood cant
17:25<Superuser>Ristovski: u wot m8
17:25<Superuser>it's Linux, but this is the web interface anyway
17:25<Ristovski>Superuser: I cant find that string anywhere in the code
17:25<Superuser>it just gives a list of all translatable strings in the game
17:25<Superuser>it has to be there
17:25<Superuser>well, in the lng file anyway
17:26<Superuser>though I'm not familiar with openttd's custom (?) translation system
17:26<@Terkhen>I could find it easily on WT
17:26<@Terkhen>so it definitely exists
17:26<Superuser>http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_DEFAULT
17:26<Superuser>yeah, I wonder where it is in the game
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17:28<Ristovski>Superuser: it seems not to be, there is STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS and some others, tho no "DEFAULT"
17:28<TrueBrain>let me guess: it is part of an enum ;)
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17:29<Superuser>Ristovski: the "Default" I'm on about is the english string actually
17:29<Ristovski>oh
17:30<Superuser>so, any idea of where it is in the game? Something about vehicles?
17:31<Ristovski>no idea
17:31<TrueBrain>what is the next string?
17:31<frosch123>Ristovski: vehicle_gui.cpp:1826
17:32<Superuser>STR_VEHICLE_DETAILS_DAYS
17:32<@Alberth>vehicle_gui.cpp, lines 1826, and 2118
17:32<Superuser>percentage after that
17:32<frosch123>anyway, it's in the vehicle details gui obviously
17:32<Ristovski>oh
17:32<Superuser>sounds like some kind of table
17:32<Superuser>oh riiight
17:32<frosch123>dropdown
17:32<Superuser>when you click on a vehicle and click the sheet icon (on OpenGFX)?
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17:39<Superuser>#openttd, no offence but...
17:39<Superuser>What is the Highscores table and why is it so butt-fucking ugly?
17:39<frosch123>it's prettier than it used to be
17:39<+michi_cc>Superuser: Ask Chris Sawyer
17:40<Ristovski>grr, I have no idea which of the devs have which nicks, lol
17:40<FLHerne>Superuser: It's a redundant, pointless and badly-concieved thing that no-one looks at :P
17:40<M3Henry2>Yay for hangovers
17:40<FLHerne>Because of the last bit, it's irrelevant what it looks like :D
17:42<Superuser>you should create a window with OpenTTD's widget set to display the highscore table
17:42<Superuser>not have a frickin' JPEG background
17:43<frosch123>Ristovski: what? everyone has only one nick
17:43*Superuser is probably overestimating the power of OpenTTD's windowing API
17:43<Ristovski>frosch123: I dont know who is who tho, since noone has the same nick on IRC as on forums w/e
17:43<@Alberth>yes, it cannot display jpegs
17:44<frosch123>Ristovski: i think everyone has the same nick here as on forums :p
17:44<@planetmaker>^^
17:44*Alberth denies to use Alberth as tt-forums name
17:44<frosch123>except DorpsGek
17:44<@planetmaker>:D
17:44<frosch123>somehow he never wanted to join the froums
17:44<Ristovski>frosch123: how come i dont recognize any of the opped nicks in here from the dev list
17:45<M3Henry2>Yeah, a dithered 8-bit pcx image is not a jpeg
17:45<M3Henry2>I recognise most of them, don't know what you're talking about
17:45<frosch123>Ristovski: devs are not the top-spammers on the forums
17:45<Wolf01>'night guys
17:46<+michi_cc>Ristovski: Maybe you look at the wrong list...? http://www.openttd.org/en/contact
17:46<Rubidium>night Wolf01
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17:46<Superuser>why does ottd still support pcx for screenshots and stuff
17:46<Ristovski>michi_cc: oh, nice
17:46<Superuser>I'm pretty sure most browsers can't display the format
17:46<Superuser>it's obsolete now
17:47<+michi_cc>Because we don't need an external library for it?
17:47<frosch123>and because we even added support to load tto games
17:47<Rubidium>Superuser: because it's so trivial we don't need an external library for it. Thus it is the perfect fallback for screenshots
17:47<@planetmaker>and why should it be removed?
17:48<Superuser>because you are causing image format proliferation
17:48<Superuser>and worse, PCX is an inferior, proprietary standard
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17:48<frosch123>oh, we can make up for that by not supporting jpg
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17:49<Ristovski>"general coding/windows expert/ OS/2 port" why no linux?
17:49<frosch123>everyone is linux?
17:50<M3Henry2>rm -rfq * ?
17:50<Superuser>they support most linux distros, heck
17:50<frosch123>it's the default, to say so
17:50<Superuser>what are you on about
17:50<Superuser>also I think the OS/2 port is broken, but not like anyone cares
17:50<Ristovski>M3Henry2: uuh, /*, * will delete current dir
17:50<Rubidium>Superuser: why do you think the OS/2 port is broken?
17:50<Superuser>rm -rf / changes the program so it doesn't constantly say you don't have right to do it and it becomes more user friendly
17:51<Superuser>I would highly recommend it, rm has never been so helpful
17:51<Superuser>Rubidium: just what I heard, in this very channel I believe!
17:51<M3Henry2>:3 fortunately I hav't been tired enough to do it, but I do know of people that have done that while cleaning out an old email server
17:52<Superuser>ITC people living under rocks
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17:53<frosch123>M3Henry2: i know a guy who took the dos reference manual at age of 7 or so, and started at the beginning to try every command to see what it does
17:53<frosch123>he got stuck somewhere at "f"
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17:53<@planetmaker>:D
17:54<@planetmaker>you know that guy very intimately? ;-)
17:54<frosch123>no, it's not me :)
17:54<frosch123>it's a mate from school
17:55<@planetmaker>:-)
17:55<Rubidium>oh... the PCX specs are much more interesting than the JPEG ones ;)
17:55<@Alberth>:)
17:55<Rubidium>"... call our BBS at (404)427-1045 ..."
17:56<peter1139>those were the days
17:56<@planetmaker>:DDD
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>if there's a highscore table and nobody looks at it, does it make a sound?
17:56<Superuser>Hmm, you know that string I was rabbitting on about?
17:56<Superuser>Turns out I don't know how to use this control
17:57<Superuser>What does it do? It's in vehicle properties, a dropdown
17:57<Superuser>lets you pick between 'default', 'days' and 'percentage'? I have no idea what this does
17:57<@Alberth>service interval?
17:58<@Alberth>play with breakdowns enabled ;)
17:58<FLHerne>The trouble with that table is they way the scores are based on bizarre weightings of seeminly randomly-selected metrics :P
17:58<Supercheese>Psh, breakdowns
17:58<peter1139>play with tooltips ons
17:58<peter1139>-s
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17:58<Superuser>As an amateur UX designer, I think this is terrible
17:58<peter1139>FLHerne, the weightings are based on TTD original settings, clearly
17:58<peter1139>256x256 map, limited amount of vehicles, etc, etc...
17:59<FLHerne>peter1139: Hrm. Would it be possible to change that?
17:59<peter1139>why bother, nobody looks at it
17:59<Superuser>typical 90s-era mentality
18:00<FLHerne>Hoy, I was about to say that :P
18:00<peter1139>it's cool that UI design is now called UX design
18:00<Supercheese>it is?
18:00<peter1139>users don't interface with us now
18:00<peter1139>they experience us
18:00<Supercheese>News to me
18:01<peter1139>as an amateur add-a-button-to-make-some-code-usable designer, i don't care much about feedback that consists of "this is terrible"
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18:03<Superuser>As a successful troll, I believe I am highly successful ;)
18:03<Ristovski>lol
18:04<@Alberth>how can you call yourself "successful" if you didn't believe it?
18:04<frosch123>i suppose you he meant "amateur troll"
18:04<frosch123>would fit the discussion better
18:07<FLHerne>peter1139: Why not just remove it, if no-one looks at it?
18:07<FLHerne>Call it "simplifying the UI" or something :D
18:07<frosch123>FLHerne: 1.3 already removed 3/4 of it :p
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18:08<frosch123>anyway, there was space left in the main screen
18:08<frosch123>it needs to be an odd number of buttons, else it looks weird in the current design
18:11<Rubidium>so trash MP or NewGRFs. Both will make many improvements mich easier
18:11<frosch123>yeah, text adventure
18:13<frosch123>FLHerne: anyway, ofc you can also provide a patch which adds gamescript-specific highscore tables
18:13<Zuu>yeah, 32bit graphics is boring, there should be an ncurses video output for OpenTTD :-)
18:13<frosch123>then i would not have to maintain it in the wiki
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18:14<frosch123>Zuu: smatz and me tried a braille patch a few years ago
18:14<FLHerne>frosch123: Sounds fun. Perhaps one day I'll finally know enough C++ to write something useful :P
18:14<Zuu>frosch123: Sounds interesting
18:15<andythenorth>Zuu: when will you do a new GS? :P
18:15<andythenorth>I need a reason to play ottd
18:15<Zuu>Those who want to make voice overs using text-to-speech software might be able to hook into a braille API :-)
18:15<frosch123>Zuu: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/png2braille/ <- i do not have any ottd screenshot anymore though
18:16<Zuu>andythenorth: Here is my latest GS: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5509
18:16<Zuu>I do however not find it very fun to play with :-p
18:16<andythenorth>it's not a cargo goal :P
18:16<andythenorth>are you busy doing useful stuff instead of fun stuff? :P
18:17<andythenorth>shameful ;)
18:17<Zuu>Sort of
18:17<FLHerne>andythenorth: I noticed you removed the town-industry naming from recent FIRS :-(
18:17<andythenorth>that's what listening to players gets you
18:17<Zuu>Lately I've been busy doing non-OpenTTD stuff
18:17<FLHerne>That was really nice. Why remove it?
18:18<FLHerne>Now I have to think of imaginative names for every tram stop :P
18:18<andythenorth>because players hated it
18:18<FLHerne>Why hate it?
18:18<andythenorth>because they did
18:18<andythenorth>ask Ammler pikka peter1139
18:18<andythenorth>I dunno
18:18<andythenorth>it's gone anyway
18:18<FLHerne>It looked better than [x] Branch/Exchange/Transfer etc
18:18<Superuser>fun stuff: make trains/road vehicles/ships blow up when aeroplanes fall on them
18:18<andythenorth>the game will name stations for you
18:19<Superuser>if an aeroplanes falls on your vehicles right now, nothing happens
18:19<FLHerne>andythenorth: Yes, but it names them in stupid ways that don't take the landscape or surroundings into account well :P
18:19<Superuser>would be awesome if they could collide. Fun stuff indeed (will in actuality make you want to tear your hair out)!
18:19*Pinkbeast liked it but I guess I'm only one player
18:19<andythenorth>FLHerne: so patch the game
18:20<FLHerne>andythenorth: Probably easier for me to grap some FIRS code and un-patch that :P
18:21<FLHerne>I might even do that when I have some time
18:21<andythenorth>[shrug]
18:21<Zuu>andythenorth: Anyway, I did actually release a new version of Neighbours are important yesterday (and another today). But I guess once you have played that a few times you don't want more of that but rather some other challenges.
18:22<FLHerne>andythenorth: That's the second [shrug] I've got today, from two completely different people :P
18:23<frosch123>night
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18:24<andythenorth>Zuu: I am particularly addicted to NoCarGoal
18:24<andythenorth>I wondered about a version that sets a new challenge every n years
18:25<andythenorth>rotating through different cargos
18:25<@Terkhen>good night
18:25<Zuu>andythenorth: So you want to play longer than 7 years? :-)
18:25<andythenorth>maybe :)
18:25<andythenorth>sometimes
18:27<Zuu>Personally I think it would be cool if I could get further ahead on this work: https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Zuu/click-on-string
18:28<andythenorth>it would
18:28<Zuu>But you might file that under "useful stuff" :-p
18:32<andythenorth>:)
18:33*andythenorth -> bed
18:33<andythenorth>bye
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18:55<Purity01>!password
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19:03<V453000>second one in a short while
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19:12<Eddi|zuHause>they never learn :p
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19:14<Dewin>Is there a reference somewhere for suggesting things like... proper selection of (new) savegame versions when merging in a bunch of patches/etc?
19:14<Dewin>Aside from something like "take highest # used by any patch and add one to break compatibility"
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>Dewin: there is no clear guide on that, but theoretically it's possible to keep compatibility when adding patches
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>Dewin: there was a very old patchpack called "MiniIN" which had a system
19:17<Dewin>Eddi|zuHause: The patches in question each add new saved variables.
19:18<Dewin>And right now I'm dealing with a grand total of... two. Well, three, but that's because I'm trying to decided whether I want slim timetable separation or automated separation...
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>Dewin: basically, you start at current trunk's savegame version, and each patch you add you add one to that version
19:19<Dewin>Incidentally, this is turning out to be a very good way to learn how git works, which has been on my todo list for awhile
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>Dewin: then, whenever trunk bumps the version, you bump yours as well. with some additional magic you stay compatible with new trunk savegames and recent savegames made with your patchpack, only losing very old savegames made with your patchpack
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19:54<FLHerne>TBH, most patches I've seen/poked just seem to use 200 for the save version...
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20:09<Bonez305>Can someone assist me with setting up a phpbb forum on debian ?
20:10<Bonez305>wrong channel lol
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21:09<Dewin>Bah. My version of cargodist updated to trunk and my version of slim timetables updated to trunk both work, but the build that has both applied fails an assertion every time a train hits a station, including on the title game...
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21:22<Eddi|zuHause>welcome to the joys of patchpacking :)
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23:09<akruz>hello
23:09<akruz>i have a problem here
23:10<akruz>i have but a Newgrf
23:11<akruz>i think the problem is on the ECS
23:11<akruz>well, its have a lot of new cargos
23:11<akruz>but, in the cities, i can just take passagers
23:11<akruz>the rest kepp as invalid cargo
23:11<akruz>someone have a solution, or i will have to tak away this
23:12<akruz>the vecihle trans set is unload
23:12<akruz>because i need a higger version, and i sont know what version is it
23:40<Supercheese>post a savegame on the forum
23:40<Supercheese>that'll make it easy to get help
---Logclosed Wed Mar 20 00:00:38 2013