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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-20

---Logopened Wed Mar 20 00:00:38 2013
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03:22<dihedral>greetings
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03:34<Bonez305>Morning.
03:34<__ln__>yes it is.
03:40-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
03:41<Bonez305>Which should be the main lines that I should configure in the openttd.cfg as far as running a server ? I don't need to mes around with everything, right?
03:43<Zuu>rcon password is good to set to a somewhat strong password or leave it blank to disable rcon.
03:43<Zuu>rcon is the pasword to remotely administrate the server.
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03:50<Ammler>mainly the network settings
03:52<Bonez305>Thanks, I copied my config from my game directory but there are alot of edited lines already, could I leave most blank ?
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04:22<andythenorth>bonjour and pigs and apples
04:22<Pikka>bonjour and apples and pigs
04:22<andythenorth>apples and pears
04:22<andythenorth>pigs and pears
04:22<Pikka>ee lad
04:22<andythenorth>Pikka: when will you add realism to your sets?
04:22<andythenorth>I am missing realism
04:22<andythenorth>:P
04:23<andythenorth>can I play it yet?
04:23*andythenorth had better go and get ready for work
04:23<Pikka>pretty soon I am adding realism
04:23<Pikka>is "not using the water cycle colours for the water" realism?
04:23<andythenorth>yes
04:23<Pikka>yes, you had better
04:23<andythenorth>when are we playing server?
04:23<Pikka>I don't know
04:23<andythenorth>next week?
04:23<Pikka>half past three
04:24<Pikka>I suppose I'll finish some trains or something by then
04:24<Pikka>but no sounds
04:24<Pikka>and they're boring without sounds
04:24<Pikka>when will you be finished bandit?
04:24<andythenorth>errp
04:25<andythenorth>I think I figured it out
04:25<andythenorth>just need to code it and draw it
04:25<andythenorth>but the project management is good eh? :P
04:25<Pikka>it's practically done, the
04:25<Pikka>n
04:25<Pikka>I have to do some colour swatching for my landscape
04:26<andythenorth>landscape :o
04:26<Pikka>it doesn't look right
04:26<Pikka>I think the problem is that the grass is green or something
04:26<Pikka>I should ask that one guy for his opinion, ho ho
04:27<andythenorth>hmm
04:27<andythenorth>we'll see
04:27<andythenorth>he did anti-alias a load of FIRS sprites for me a long time ago
04:27<Pikka>yes
04:27<andythenorth>I am adding a cheating parameter for truck capacity
04:28<Pikka>why
04:28<andythenorth>'boring (1x RL)' | 'fun (1.5x RL)' | 'cheating (2x RL)'
04:28<andythenorth>same as speed for ships
04:28<Pikka>and are you going to balance the other stats to the capacity?
04:28<andythenorth>nah
04:28<andythenorth>realistic truck capacity just means load of clickety clickety
04:28<Pikka>or do players who want to play properly have to guess which one is the right one? ;)
04:28<andythenorth>hmm
04:29<andythenorth>let's see how much I care about that
04:29<Pikka>:)
04:29<andythenorth>I did consider truck convoys
04:29<andythenorth>build 1, get 3
04:29<andythenorth>like a special offer :P
04:29<Pikka>yeah
04:29<Pikka>articulated RVs are pants though :)
04:29<andythenorth>might look bad in stations
04:29<andythenorth>and overtaking would smell
04:29<andythenorth>and breakdowns would be weird
04:30<Pikka>novertaking
04:30<andythenorth>maybe a 'clone 5' button in the gui :P
04:30<andythenorth>hold down some arcane key combo
04:30<andythenorth>maybe ctrl and a number key :P
04:30<andythenorth>then document that in some forgotten wiki page
04:33<Pikka>yes
04:34<andythenorth>Pikka: this probably tl;dr but anyway http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2165/
04:35<Pikka>too complicated for me ;)
04:36<andythenorth>:)
04:36<Pikka>maximum weight of an australian b double is 62.5t, btw ;)
04:37<andythenorth>I should remember that
04:37<andythenorth>for the AU version
04:37<andythenorth>I did consider making the set simple: truck (small), truck (big)
04:37<andythenorth>auto-refit everything
04:37<Pikka>and quads are extremely uncommon / limited
04:37<andythenorth>triples instead?
04:38<Pikka>but bandit I'm sure will be all quads all the time
04:38<andythenorth>roadtypes, stop them going in town
04:38<Pikka>even triples are fairly limited
04:38<Pikka>roadtypes, yes
04:39<andythenorth>hmm
04:39<andythenorth>just doubles :P
04:39<andythenorth>we'll see
04:40<andythenorth>I'm doing UK first, to match that trainset you made
04:40<Pikka>oh, that one
04:40<andythenorth>yes
04:41<andythenorth>maybe an express truck is nonsense
04:42<andythenorth>all trucks are express :P
04:42<Pikka>implied trucks
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04:44<Pikka>MAHOGANY PLANTATIONS OF AUSTRALIA PTY LTD -V- TABLELANDS REGIONAL COUNCIL in the planning and environment court
04:44<Pikka>sounds fascinating
04:44*Pikka is doing jury dooty this week and next, so I have to check the law lists to see if I have to go in or not
04:44<Pikka>so far, I haven't had to go in :)
04:45<andythenorth>:P
04:46<andythenorth>NZ has silly big trucks
04:46<Pikka>do they
04:46<Pikka>sillier than australia?
04:47<andythenorth>4 axle tractor, 4 axle artic trailer
04:47<andythenorth>not bigger than AU
04:47<andythenorth>also should these be in BANDIT? http://www.flickr.com/photos/57633672@N07/7353960086/in/faves-56013107@N03/
04:47<andythenorth>or silly?
04:47<andythenorth>hmm
04:47<andythenorth>silly is probably why I would put them in
04:47<Pikka>yes
04:48<Pikka>hello dolly
04:48<andythenorth>got any cargo for it in your set?
04:48<andythenorth>I have engineering supplies :P
04:48<Pikka>nope
04:48<Pikka>except goods refits :)
04:49<andythenorth>goods
04:49<Pikka>it's all goods
04:49<andythenorth>yup, I'd like to play MP with 20 of those going to shops in town
04:49<andythenorth>bulldozers: every home should have one
04:49<Pikka>you know what would be nice
04:50<Pikka>if vehicles could know the type of industry their cargo came from ;)
04:50<Pikka>anyway
04:50<Pikka>I'm even getting rid of petrol
04:50<Pikka>and going back to goods D;
04:51<Pikka>dump industries are boring, might as well dump everything on towns, as goods
04:52<Pikka>http://www.xtrucking.co.nz/content/feature-scandalous
04:52<Pikka>no, really, what is wrong with these people?
04:53<andythenorth>you don't like? :)
04:53<Pikka>nope
04:53<Pikka>I'm boring :)
04:54<andythenorth>I could put blue lights under the trucks in BANDIT
04:54<andythenorth>need alpha :P
04:54<Pikka>why?
04:54<andythenorth>transparency
04:54<andythenorth>oh we have it somewhere
04:54<andythenorth>hmm
04:54<andythenorth>gtg
04:54<Pikka>they're only going to be over grey roads, what's to see through a transparency?
04:54<Pikka>bye :)
04:54<andythenorth>time to spread light and joy
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07:17<andythenorth>Pikka: I've got town dump industries well covered in FIRS ;) Variety between sets is good eh?
07:17<andythenorth>NO EVERYTHING MUST BE THE SAME AND CONFORM ANDYTHENORTH
07:17<Ristovski>:O
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07:36*Pikka returns
07:36<Pikka>return of the /me
07:36<Pikka>yes andy everything must match dbset
07:36<andythenorth>partir
07:36<Pikka>and ecs
07:36<andythenorth>retourner
07:36<andythenorth>I had better get busy
07:36<andythenorth>I've never used dbset :)
07:36<andythenorth>maybe that's what my next game needs
07:37<Pikka>what, never?
07:37<andythenorth>nevr
07:37<andythenorth>I tried japan set once
07:37<Pikka>what, _never_?
07:37<andythenorth>*never*
07:37<andythenorth>not ever
07:37<andythenorth>not even in a hundred years
07:37<andythenorth>nor always
07:37*Pikka tut-tuts at andythenorth for not understanding certain cultural references
07:37<andythenorth>sorry :(
07:38<Pikka>:)
07:38<andythenorth>you'd better send me a yt link for my cultural re-education
07:38<Pikka>I think the name of my overall pikkaworld is going to be "big D" :)
07:38<andythenorth>unless it's children's tv, or tiny bit of peter cook, I'm lost :P
07:39<Pikka>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c548RjB8jzQ
07:39-!-SigHunter [~sighunter@pD9E5684E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:39<andythenorth>oic
07:39<andythenorth>culchur
07:39<andythenorth>oh look, that one's got a YT ad on it
07:39<andythenorth>we made it :P
07:39<SigHunter>whats supposed to happen when you play >2070? trains loose reliability, they become useless
07:40<__ln__>*lose
07:40<Pikka>build maglevs, SigHunter?
07:40<andythenorth>Pikka: big D? http://bigdnuts.co.uk
07:40<Pikka>I don't see youtube ads, andy
07:40<SigHunter>Pikka: i have everything on lev4, after some years reliability sinks
07:40<andythenorth>how bad for YT's revenue model you are
07:40<Pikka>not those ones, andythenorth
07:41<SigHunter>is down to 48% already
07:41<Pikka>but the song @ 1:40
07:41<Pikka>SigHunter: start over? :)
07:41<andythenorth>NewGame
07:41<SigHunter>not untill i finished my gigantic farm transport
07:41<andythenorth>NewNewGame
07:42<__ln__>*until
07:42<andythenorth>til
07:42<Pikka>till
07:42<SigHunter>my bad
07:42*Pikka likes __ln__ alot
07:42<__ln__>*a lot
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07:43*Pikka is effected by the effectual affect affected by __ln__
07:44<__ln__>*affected, *effect
07:44<Pikka>no, not at all
07:44<__ln__>:(
07:45<Pikka>well, perhaps
07:45<Pikka>it depends on the meaning :)
07:45<Pikka>anyway, ying tong yiddle I po
07:46<Pikka>SigHunter, turn on vehicles never expire and then do resetengines in the console?
07:46<Pikka>or change the year back to c.2040 and do resetengines in the console?
07:46<SigHunter>resetengines is forbidden in multiplayer
07:46<Pikka>shamefur dispray
07:48<Pikka>andythenorth, get "ying tong yiddle I po" or "shamefur dispray"? :)
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07:51<andythenorth>Pikka: it's not weebl and bob I guess?
07:51<V453000>nutzzz
07:51<andythenorth>o_O
07:51<Pikka>nope
07:51<V453000>balls to cancer :d
07:51<Pikka>the goon show and/or total war shogun 2. :)
07:52<andythenorth>fortunately the internet knows
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09:07<amrith92>Hi, in my openttd (binary for ubuntu linux x86_64), the rail-road icon is always shaded - I cannot seem to use it. The same goes for the bus-stop menu in the road-construction menu
09:08<amrith92>any ideas why?
09:10<@planetmaker>start in 1950. And make sure you don't have newgrfs active which disable the vehicles
09:11<@planetmaker>in earlier years with default openttd, vehicles of that type might not yet be available
09:11<@planetmaker>newgrfs can change that
09:11<@planetmaker>but there's nearly none which will make the game playable before 1870s or so
09:11<@planetmaker>and even there you have to know that the newgrfs work for that time
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09:15<amrith92>@planetmaker Thanks a ton! That was spot-on! Solved my issue. I couldn't find this in the documentation (at least, not in the tutorial), maybe it should be added as a Note or something similar?
09:20<amrith92># I realize that the starting date in the screen-shot in the tutorial is set to "1st Jan, 1950", but the reason behind it isn't mentioned, and neither is it the default date, which is misleading as the instructions state "Leave these to their defaults for now. "
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09:20<V453000>there should be vehicles in all climates in 1950
09:21<V453000>1950 is default?
09:22<@planetmaker>amrith92, 1950 is the default date
09:22<@planetmaker>but once you change it, your setting will be kept for future new games
09:24<__ln__>it's silly to allow setting the year earlier than the earliest stuff in currently loaded grfs.
09:24<@planetmaker>agreed
09:25<@planetmaker>easier to implement though is a sanity check when pressing "generate map" though. And maybe also when you acknowledge the newgrf config
09:26<@planetmaker>which checks availability of vehicles at start date, and checks vehicle availability for all cargos
09:26<@planetmaker>but that is very easily said as opposed to the newgrf complexity you have there
09:27<@planetmaker>likely it boils down to generate the map, and then check whether everything works in an automated way. and then tell the user about possible shortcomings
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09:28<@planetmaker>including a nice list of newGRF warnings, if there are any
09:28<@planetmaker>frosch calls it newgrf utopia ;-)
09:28<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NewGRF_Configuration_in_Utopia
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09:31<@Belugas>hello
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13:19<adamt>Hello, just a quick question.
13:20<adamt>If i run a dedicated client, is there a way of connecting to the game from bash? like a separate rcon executable?
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>there is the admin port, but no (finished) client for that is available, only some libraries
13:23<adamt>ah, wasn't aware of the admin port.
13:24<adamt>is http://svn.openttd.org/trunk/docs/admin_network.txt the best description of the protocol?
13:25<@planetmaker>adamt, the xterm you start openttd acts as such. Simply start openttd in a screen session
13:26<@planetmaker>but the admin port is the more advanced / more versatile solution
13:27<adamt>oh, i wasn't aware that i could communicate with ttd directly after starting the server. is that the rcon interface that is exposed there?
13:28<@planetmaker>basically yes. You don't need rcon or rcon password there. Just issue the rcon commands
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13:28<adamt>(tbh. i just need an easy way of spawning a server, loading saves etc., so my girlfriend can start a persistent network server)
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, then simply typing the commands in after starting the server will do
13:29<adamt>planetmaker, okay, great. so i just wait for the "starting game" message and start throwing commands after it? much easier that i had expected :-)
13:30<@planetmaker>adamt, yes. But if you run on a dedicated server, you should start screen before. Otherwise server is terminated when you log off
13:30<adamt>Eddi|zuHause, I'm not going to type any commands, i'm going to control it from a web interface.
13:30<Bonez305>planetmaker: wouldn't -D help too ?
13:30<adamt>Bonez305, it's still attached to your session
13:31<adamt>although i suppose you could play with disown instead of screen, or nohup.
13:31<@planetmaker>Bonez305, you need that in any case...
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13:31<Bonez305>I guess I'll shut up now, I know nothing of Linux lol
13:31<@planetmaker>adamt, yes, maybe there are other solutions. I never looked for anything else but screen
13:31<Bonez305>I don't even know how I got the server running
13:32<adamt>Eddi|zuHause + planetmaker, thanks for the advice! :-)
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>adamt: maybe if you have enough spare time, you can develop and publish a decent web-interface based on the admin port
13:33<adamt>planetmaker, i just want less technically-able users to be able to bring up a new server from a web interface and control basic things, so i wont be using screen, just spawning it directly from the webapp.
13:34<adamt>Eddi|zuHause, there's certain properties that makes the admin port more interesting for me anyways, but let's see where this goes. Should be a nice little project.
13:34<@planetmaker>adamt, yes... might work. Actually for that purpose the admin port with a proper script might be better suited
13:34<@planetmaker>But I'm not aware of any admin port script
13:35<@planetmaker>people keep them, if they have them, to themselves...
13:35<adamt>planetmaker, yeah, even though it should be rather easy to just run openttd -D and use std{in,out}, but the admin port solution is probably much less fragile.
13:35<@planetmaker>or so it seems
13:36<@planetmaker>adamt, *iff* you could bake a solution to marry web interface and admin port - I think that it will be very well received. At least I shall be interested in it :D
13:36<adamt>my gf is crazy about openttd, but prefers playing on a network server so a friend can join and help, and i don't want to learn her how to edit openttd.cfg and use screen. and rcon. :P
13:37<@planetmaker>that's understandable
13:37<@planetmaker>tbh, once setup it makes management easier
13:37<@planetmaker>likely ;-)
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13:48<Eddi|zuHause>adamt: well, her client can run as server as well, just start as multiplayer game. althought that might need firewall/router tweaking
13:49<adamt>Eddi|zuHause, and it's not very persistent, her pc being a laptop.
13:51<adamt>maybe it's easier to start with implemented a http api inside openttd. :P
13:51<adamt>*implementing
13:52<@planetmaker>nah, just use the admin port, use a ready http library (python, java, whatever) and forward commands to openttd
13:52<@planetmaker>that's the purpose
13:53<@planetmaker>https://bitbucket.org/Xaroth/libottdadmin or http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan are python or java libraries for the admin port access
13:53<@planetmaker>they might need a bit polishing... but work in principle
13:53<adamt>the documentation of the admin port is kinda unclear, like, how is the enums serialised?
13:55<@planetmaker>https://github.com/timmy469/openttd-admin is there obviously, too
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14:01<@Terkhen>hello
14:04<adamt>planetmaker, i know about network programming, i'm just not sure about what values the enums are translated into in the protocol
14:05<@planetmaker>adamt, likely OpenTTD's source is the best information source there...
14:07<@planetmaker>hi Terkhen
14:08<@planetmaker>though... we have somewhere the doxygen for that...
14:10<@planetmaker>http://svn.openttd.org/trunk/docs/admin_network.txt tells you actually where to look
14:10<@planetmaker>src/network/core/tcp_admin.h
14:10<@planetmaker>so it's just a matter of reading the supplied docs ;-)
14:11<@planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/aed1fb9e9315/src/network/core/tcp_admin.h
14:12<adamt>my c is rusty, are the enums just translated to int values starting from 0 and incrementing by 1 (and skipping enums with specific values)?
14:13<__ln__>quite much so.
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14:17<Eddi|zuHause>adamt: when one enum value has a specific number assigned to it, the following enum values will be increments of that number
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>so A=0, B=1, C=2, D=32, E=33, etc.
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14:20<adamt>Eddi|zuHause, ach so.
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14:22<NGC3982>WAT
14:22<NGC3982>Oh.
14:22<NGC3982>Rusty is my middle name.
14:22<__ln__>how's your floor?
14:26<adamt>i don't see where http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/admin_network.txt specifies how to actually do things like rcon-commands. sure, it mentions the enum involved, but what terminates the rcon command that follows, and how should the command itself be packed?
14:26<adamt><enum>rcon magic as ascii<null>?
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14:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, like any C string, i suppose
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14:36<@Alberth>o/
14:37<@planetmaker>o/ Alberth
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25111 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-20 18:45:18 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 3 changes by KorneySan
14:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 22 changes by Evropi
14:45<@DorpsGek>icelandic - 11 changes by Stimrol
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15:16<@Alberth>hmm, it seems you have to patch programs yourself to keep them running :(
15:17<Ristovski>Alberth: welcome to windows
15:18<@Alberth>it's linux, tortoisehg to be exact
15:18<@Alberth>Fedora is a biit very bleeding edge ;)
15:19<Ristovski>oh, nvm then, and linux here aswell, debian wheezy
15:21<frosch123>tortoisehg on linux?
15:21<frosch123>i thought it was a pure windows thingie :)
15:23<@Alberth>it's Python ;)
15:28<@planetmaker>frosch123, tortoise(hg|svn|git) is available for all ^
15:35<frosch123>i assume it some kind of gui then :)
15:35<frosch123>oh, i mean "gux" ofc :)
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15:45<@Alberth>http://tortoisehg.bitbucket.org/
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15:53<Wolf01>o/
15:53<@Alberth>hi
15:54<frosch123>hmm, how long will it take till Turkey offery to buy Cyprus?
15:54<frosch123>i guess gaddafi would have suggested that :p
15:55<Wolf01>how long would take 'till Germany offers to buy Italy?
15:56<frosch123>i guess longer than it would take germany to return to dmark :p
15:57<frosch123>Wolf01: germany would only buy mallorca from spain
15:57<frosch123>i don't think there is particular interest in italy
15:58<Wolf01>^ it seem that's our govern think the same
15:58<frosch123>hmm, maybe the english would also bid for mallorca
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16:22<SigHunter>is it normal that oil production is permanently decreasing?
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:22<@planetmaker>in the default game: yes
16:22<SigHunter>why is that? makes oil totally useless
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>it's a feature of the temperate oil wells, they only ever decrease production and then disappear
16:23<SigHunter>-.- great feature
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>to phase them out in favour of offshore oil platforms
16:23<SigHunter>k thx for the info
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>there are newgrfs which remove this effect
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17:18<Zuu_>So nowdays users don't just want a tailormade forum response, they also want you to make a video tutorial for them...
17:21<goodger>there is nothing better than watching video game footage at a fraction of the game's intended resolution, especially when it's an unrehearsed screencast done by a man with a thick accent and a cheap microphone inside his mouth
17:22<frosch123>night
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17:24<@planetmaker>hehe, Zuu_ - I also though "wtf?!" when I read that. But chose to ignore the ... what is it called? audacity? impertinence?
17:24<goodger>either of those is a good choice
17:25<adamt>you forgot about the awesome screencasts with techno in the background, or rather, loud enough to make the voice-over seem like a voice-under...
17:25<@planetmaker>it's not that... it's a user asking a question and demanding a video tutorial as answer, adamt
17:26<adamt>planetmaker, i was just jumping in to goodger's apparent train of thought
17:26<@planetmaker>people making video tutorials IMHO is fine. And good. That they can improve is... well... a learning curve, I guess :-)
17:27<@planetmaker>I wouldn't do it better, most likely
17:27<@planetmaker>aye, yeah :-)
17:27<@planetmaker>I find it also hard to follow at times when I listened to it
17:28<@planetmaker>and chillcore is totally right with his remarks on giving people some break to breath and absorb a thought
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17:49<Wolf01>'night
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18:17<V453000>video tutorials? :D
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18:33<Zuu_>Yeah, whats wrong with intractive tutorials. It has moving pictures and is .. interactive :-)
18:34<Zuu_>Althrough a GS tutorial that explains how to setup a server is a bit out of the picture.
18:35<+glx>I already seen video tutorial with just text :)
18:36<+glx>my first reaction was "why do a video for that ???"
18:36<Zuu_>Next cool thing is to release an e-book as a GS. :-)
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19:54<@Terkhen>good night
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21:37<timmytwot>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WPafswrC64
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 21 00:00:05 2013