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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-21

---Logopened Thu Mar 21 00:00:05 2013
---Daychanged Thu Mar 21 2013
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02:46<dihedral>greetings
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04:22<Pikka>snowbody here butters chickens
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04:26<V453000>I think written tutorials are best all in all for anything OpenTTD related Zuu
04:26<V453000>and I have already written some amount of stuff that way :P
04:27<Zuu>Yeah I've seen your document on map creation :-)
04:28<V453000>uh, that one is kind of an exception, having a blog/wiki page is a lot better maintainable
04:28<V453000>but for that pdf was nicer :)
04:29<V453000> either way, what I meant to say was, in videos people get only like 50% of the information you actually tell them ... unless the caster is really good at talking
04:29<V453000>while they can read written text line by line multiple times
04:30<V453000>also in OpenTTD you often mention the same words and/or explain complicated things, which I really have a hard time explaining without writing it
04:33<V453000>static images with text do wonders :)
04:42<Pikka>video tutorials are terrible
04:42<Pikka>I do not want to watch a half-hour video for the one little piece of information I need and which probably isn't in there anyway
04:48<V453000>cant ctrl F in them either
04:48<V453000>tru
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04:59<@planetmaker>good morning
05:04<V453000>elo
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06:02<Ristovski>will doing "exit" in the dedicated server console save the map before quitting?
06:03<V453000>one way to find out :P
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06:32<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really remember whether there was an "autosave on exit" feature in this game, but if there was, there'd be an option about it
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06:43<peter1139>it doesn't
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07:02<Bonez305>how much RAM is needed for a 1024x1024 server map ?
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07:25<dihedral>Ristovski, you could use a script, alias its execution to something like saveexit which does that job for you ;-)
07:26<dihedral>Bonez305, that depends on how advanced the game is ;-)
07:26<Ristovski>oh yeah, that too
07:27<Ristovski>would be cool if openttd could use a real scripting lang., like python or lua
07:27<dihedral>you can connect to openttd with python via a dedicated protocol just for that purpose
07:28<Ristovski>hmm..
07:28<dihedral>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan aims to do this in java
07:28<dihedral>my main issue is time ;-)
07:28<dihedral>else the implementation of that would be further than it is currently
07:29<Ristovski>nice
07:29<dihedral>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes <- this is the state of implementing joan
07:30<dihedral>our for lunch ...
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08:14<@planetmaker>Ristovski, there's obviously two java implementations for a library which allows connecting to the admin port and one in python
08:15<@planetmaker>besides what dih linked (java), there is https://bitbucket.org/Xaroth/libottdadmin (python) and https://bitbucket.org/Xaroth/libottdadmin (java)
08:17<Ristovski>oh, nice
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08:18<@planetmaker>err... 2nd link must read https://github.com/timmy469/openttd-admin
08:19<Ristovski>ill use the python one
08:19<Ristovski>planetmaker: but, I'm looking for a way, to make the server use python as a scripting language
08:20<adamt>Is it possible to tell openttd where to put save games?
08:21<__ln__>Ristovski: who is ill?
08:21<Ristovski>__ln__: clearly you
08:22<@planetmaker>what do you want to script in python, Ristovski ?
08:22<adamt>looks like Ristovski is repeating many of my questions from yesterday :-)
08:22<@planetmaker>you can write your sever management in python. But the game and ai scripts are needed in squirrel
08:23<Ristovski>planetmaker: hmm.. I mean, openttd can't really run complex scripts
08:23<Ristovski>only like commands/aliases
08:23<@planetmaker>?
08:23<Ristovski>planetmaker: for example, http://wiki.openttd.org/Scripts
08:23<__ln__>\o/
08:23<Ristovski>you can't make a complex script, since you can only use the commands and aliases
08:24<@planetmaker>Ristovski, possibly, yes. But use the admin port for complex stuff
08:24<Ristovski>ok
08:24<@planetmaker>there you can interface openttd and write in your own script whatever you need. And you know what's going on by monitoring what's going on
08:25<@planetmaker>thus make callbacks on the events you want to do *whatever* and it should work ;-)
08:27<Ristovski>oh nice
08:27<@planetmaker>adamt, maybe you two should sit together and share the workload for better results ;-)
08:27<Ristovski>lol
08:27<adamt>planetmaker, yeah, but although we made similar questions, and not sure our aims is the same.
08:27<adamt>so Ristovski, what are you doing?
08:28<Bonez305>dihedral: what do you mean advanced? like how far along the game is, and how many transports there are?
08:28<Ristovski>adamt: oh nothing, just derping around, I was trying to see if I can make some complex scripts for my server, but ohwell
08:28<@planetmaker>The main task is to make the admin script do *something*...
08:29<adamt>so except for both of us probably needing to connect to the port, we're not doing the same. :P
08:29<Ristovski>adamt: yeah
08:29<Ristovski>I am also listing the code to see whats where
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08:40<dihedral>Ristovski, with the admin interface you can get notifications and data pushed
08:40<dihedral>your code in turn will then run what is nessesary
08:40<dihedral>e.g. on a new player, or if a player leaves, same with company stuff
08:40<Ristovski>dihedral: tho I need it to run on my PC right? or can I run it on the server too
08:41<dihedral>you can request updates on daily weekly monthly quarterly and yearly (depending on the information your want)
08:41<dihedral>you can run python on the same machine you run the openttd dedicated server
08:41<dihedral>or even from a remote location if you so wish
08:41<dihedral>it is a tcp connection you set up
08:41<Ristovski>oh, ok, ill try it out later
08:46<adamt>what he's saying, is, your script and openttd will run separately, bound together by the admin port talking together over tcp/ip.
08:46<Ristovski>I know
08:46<Ristovski>btw, are .grf's just compressed sprites?
08:47<@planetmaker>no
08:47<Ristovski>then?
08:47<Ristovski>planetmaker: I am speaking about OpenGFX's .grf file
08:49<@planetmaker>well... sprites, yes... but expecially the ogfx_extra.grf contains also loads of pseudo sprites
08:49<Ristovski>what format are .grf's?
08:49<@planetmaker>grf format
08:49<Ristovski>I mean, how can one extract the sprites
08:49<dihedral>binary :-D
08:49<Ristovski>oh, binary?
08:49<dihedral>ungrf
08:49<dihedral>:-P
08:49<@planetmaker>grfcodec -d
08:49*dihedral is being silly
08:50<Ristovski>planetmaker: thanks
08:50<@planetmaker>Ristovski, grf are written in their own programming languages, compiled by their own compiler
08:51<Ristovski>o_O
08:51<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page and http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main respectively
08:51<@planetmaker>a grf can be way more than just image sprites
08:51<Ristovski>good to know
08:52<@planetmaker>it can contain desription and behavioural logic for basically all map components
08:52<@planetmaker>s/map component/game objects/
08:52<@planetmaker>or whatever
08:53<Ristovski>planetmaker: can I use grfcodec -d on all the .grf files?
08:54<@planetmaker>opengfx itself as a base set is one of the most simple forms of grfs, though. 5 of the 6 grf are indeed only compilation of real sprites
08:54<__ln__>is the grf-ese language turing complete?
08:55<__ln__>and can GCC be made compile e.g. C into a grf?
08:56<Ristovski>planetmaker: hmm.. Error opening ogfxc_arctic.grf/ogfx1_base.nfo: Not a directory
08:56<@planetmaker>yes. iirc nearly, yes. Get started writing plugin ;-)
08:57<__ln__>so if the whole OpenTTD could be compiled into a grf, ....
08:57<@planetmaker>depending on what you want to do, Ristovski, you're better off getting opengfx' or the newgrf's source code
08:57<Ristovski>planetmaker: how can I do that?
08:58<@planetmaker>read the readme of opengfx
08:59<Ristovski>hmm, I dont see how to obtain the source code anywhere
08:59<@planetmaker>6 License
08:59<@planetmaker>6.1 Obtaining the source
08:59<@planetmaker>o_O
08:59<Ristovski>oh
08:59<Ristovski>there isnt any 6.1 tho
09:00<@planetmaker>Just noticed :D
09:00<Ristovski>lol
09:00<Ristovski>brb, lunch
09:00<@planetmaker>but read the readme, it#s in there...
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09:07<Ristovski>and back
09:07<Ristovski>planetmaker: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/releases ?
09:07<Ristovski>that?
09:08<__ln__>that's the shortest lunch i've seen.
09:09<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx
09:09<Ristovski>__ln__: I eat quick
09:09<Ristovski>but yeah, this was pretty fast
09:10<Ristovski>normally it takes ~10mins for me
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09:16<@planetmaker>Ristovski, if you do not want to make use of mercuria to obtain the source, the link you gave might be better
09:16<@planetmaker>but generally using the VCS is the much preferred way
09:18<Ristovski>ok
09:21<V453000>puuush
09:22<@planetmaker>hm... 13 minutes compile time for OpenGFX on our server :D
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09:23<Ristovski>planetmaker: -j3 ftw
09:23<Ristovski>or how many cores you got + 1
09:23<@planetmaker>explicitly limited to -j1
09:23<Ristovski>why?
09:23<@planetmaker>gimp scripting barfs when run too much in parallel
09:23<Ristovski>ah
09:24<Ristovski>brb, gotta go buy something, afk
09:24<@planetmaker>otherwise -j9 ;-)
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11:46<Ristovski>back
11:46<Ristovski>planetmaker: octacore? nice
11:46<@planetmaker>i7
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11:47<Ristovski>planetmaker: hmm, AMD-FX 8350 might be better
11:47<Ristovski>since cheaper, and octacore
11:48<@planetmaker>The pricing for that root server in the data centre is quite acceptable.
11:49<@planetmaker>it's not like I buy the hardware
11:54<@planetmaker>Ristovski, according to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html the AMD one is the worse choice
11:55<Ristovski>planetmaker: but for the money, it's good
11:56<V453000>4000 dollars for a cpu :DDD
11:58<@planetmaker>obviously not for the big hosting providers
11:59<V453000>:P
11:59<V453000>I have i7 myself and I cant complain
11:59<@planetmaker>nope, me neither :-) Quite happy with it
12:00<V453000>I know you have something very similar to mine we already discussed that :P
12:00<@planetmaker>hm, true :-)
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12:12<peter1139>it's 4 cores
12:12<peter1139>with dual integer units
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12:30<LordAro>heyo all
12:31-!-auvajs [~au@machacek.kolej.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd
12:32<auvajs>hi, anyone here?
12:32<LordAro>i am
12:32<LordAro>..i think
12:33<auvajs>I am very new to openttd. been trying to run the 32bit graphics, where to put those datas? what directory?
12:33<auvajs>ubuntu
12:33<LordAro>nowadays, you don't need to do anything like that
12:33<LordAro>just go to your download content window in game, and download zBase
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12:34<auvajs>cool
12:34<nicfer>hello
12:34<LordAro>hello nicfer
12:34<@planetmaker>auvajs, use the ingame content download
12:34<V453000>el0
12:34<@planetmaker>oh, Hi LordAro :-) You were faster :D
12:35<V453000>:)
12:35<auvajs>ok I downloaded it, what's the next step?
12:35<@planetmaker>from main menu: game options
12:35<auvajs>ah I see.. it works.. cool! great :-)))
12:36<nicfer>how can I make a wagon to change cargo and give extra power when added to a MU?
12:36<LordAro>heyo planetmaker :)
12:37<V453000>nicfer: powered_wagons
12:37<V453000>you need to have livery override for that
12:38<V453000>see NUTS, monorail Intercity trains
12:38<V453000>nuts.openttdcoop.org
12:39<V453000>assuming you use NML
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13:42<LordAro>loud noises!
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13:50<auvajs>accepted industries: houses - what's that?
13:51<@planetmaker>look at a town and think again ;-)
13:52<auvajs>yes but how to transport it?
13:52<V453000>town aint no houses, town is piggybanks and igloos
13:53<@planetmaker>house is no cargo. It's a destination
13:54<Pinkbeast>What's the cargo?
13:54<auvajs>yes but where to export "crates of goods" ?
13:54<auvajs>display chains shows "houses"
13:54<Pinkbeast>Where are houses generally found?
13:55<auvajs>so it is to be transported to a town railway station?
13:55<Pinkbeast>When you're creating a station, the interface shows what cargoes it will accept. If you are creating a station in a town, it will sometimes accept goods.
13:55<auvajs>ok thank you :)
13:56<Pinkbeast>Only larger buildings accept goods, which can make it tricky to get them in - sometimes I use goods trams into the centre of town.
14:00<LordAro>perhaps that string (in the display chains) should be changed to "Towns" or something similar
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14:20<@Terkhen>hello
14:21-!-mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ
14:21-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
14:21-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
14:21-!-mode/#openttd [+v Terkhen] by ChanServ
14:21-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
14:21-!-mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25112 /trunk/src/lang (english_AU.txt serbian.txt) (2013-03-21 18:45:13 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>english_AU - 1 changes by mrtux
14:45<@DorpsGek>serbian - 17 changes by ivan_mile
14:46<LordAro>hello Terkhen
14:46<LordAro>(of course i look at the chat for updates every minute :L )
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15:10<LordAro>quak
15:10<frosch123>moin
15:14<LordAro>oh, heyo, linux build of kerbal space program :)
15:14*LordAro resists urge to buy the game immediately
15:17<peter1139>downloading
15:20<LordAro>the demo works rather well via WINE, if a little laggy
15:22<peter1139>i tried it with wine about 2 years ago
15:22<peter1139>didn't run :p
15:22<LordAro>2 years ago? hardly surprising :P
15:23<@Terkhen>what game?
15:23<peter1139>kerbal space program
15:23<LordAro>even my limited knowledge about wine tells me it's got a lot better (with games especially) recently
15:23<LordAro>http://www.kerbalspaceprogram.com
15:23<peter1139>: Too many buttons; using buttons 0 - 19 and ignoring buttons 20 - 22
15:23<peter1139>pff
15:24<LordAro>lol?
15:24<LordAro>how many buttons do you have?
15:25<peter1139>dunno
15:25<peter1139>23 i guess
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15:27<@Terkhen>strange :P
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16:08<andythenorth>are you dancing?
16:13<LordAro>no?
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17:25<NGC3982>Lägg ägg.
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17:34<frosch123>night
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18:00<@Terkhen>good night
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18:17<LordAro>night all
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18:36<nicfer>how can I set livery override for a wagon?
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18:44<nicfer>I found something but for NFO
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>what about reading the NML page that says "livery override" in the title?
18:48<V453000>no
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>specifically: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Item#Livery_override
18:51<V453000>I already linked to monoICE at NUTS which uses exactly that :P
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19:01<@planetmaker>OpenGFX+Trains also never uses livery override for the MU passenger wagons. never. ;-)
19:02<V453000>well you dont need to use it unless you use powered wagons pm :P
19:02<V453000>at least I dont use it unless I need powered wagons ... :D
19:03<@planetmaker>well. but it's easy if you want matching wagons for an engine
19:03<@planetmaker>but yes, not needed in that case, strictly speaking
19:03<V453000>idk I was told some time ago that livery override is outdated and so I used switch with leading engine ID :P
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19:04<@planetmaker>actually livery override is a newgrf odditiy which never should have been invented in the form it exists :D
19:04<@planetmaker>yeah ^^ what you say
19:04<@planetmaker>that's the better approach
19:04<V453000>:D
19:04<V453000>ok :P
19:05<V453000><- as long as it works, :P :)
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19:25<nicfer>is that only graphicwise or can I also change wagon stats?
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>just define a real wagon...
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19:43<LordAro>right, properly 'night all' this time
19:43<LordAro>bye!
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19:54<nicfer>One question, can I make an industry to boost production when one of its tiles receive cargo? Not actual accepted cargo, but for example, passengers as for steel mills
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 22 00:00:41 2013