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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-23

---Logopened Sat Mar 23 00:00:42 2013
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02:34<wahyuhadhi>hi anyone, i am new in this game. i have receive an own made of scenario of my own city from a friend. no GRF in it. How could i put grf into the scenario?
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04:48<Wolf01>hello :E
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05:16-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
05:20<Wolf01>hi Alberth
05:21<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
05:21<@Alberth>did I miss anything important?
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05:23<V453000>Alberth: Breaking news! A dozen of unicorns escaped from frosch's garage! They are being pursued by the policemen but they keep getting distracted by the rainbows everywhere. Please help the pursue!
05:23<@Alberth>oh dear!
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06:03<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: do they look anything like this?
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>("we lost this unicorn. if you have seen it, you may be under influence of drugs. visit our drug-help-center.")
06:04<V453000>plus excessive amount of rainbow, yeah
06:04<V453000>:D nice
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07:24<frosch123>V453000: he, i always wondered what to do with my garage when i have no car :)
07:24<V453000>you have a garage but not a car? :D what for?
07:24<V453000>apart from dozen of unicorns
07:25<Wolf01>my garage is filled with old furniture, wooden planks and tools
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07:28<V453000>unless unicorns, your garage is boring Wolf01
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07:29<Wolf01>meh, the past two days there were a sunny weather, so I thought "saturday I should left my car open under the sun"... where is my sun?
07:30<@Alberth>here too; bright sunny weather while working, and grey dark windy weather in the weekend :(
07:33<V453000>could someone please have a look at this? :)
07:36<frosch123>likely related to fs#5497
07:36<Wolf01>I felt gradual loading indicator was broken too, but I only stared at those of the passengers line so I can't tell if it starts at 100% because it's already full or because it's broken
07:37<V453000>the white % show correctly
07:37<@Alberth>there also have been changes in how cargo is allocated to vehicles recently
07:37<V453000>sprites/cargo info of the vehicle dont
07:37<V453000>yeah I wrote out those revisions
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07:46<Wolf01>uhuh my new wii-u with monster hunter 3 is just arrived
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08:08<frosch123>does it have a plugin to hunt unicorns?
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08:12<LordAro>moin all
08:12<LordAro>hai Alberth
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08:20<HellTiger>hello. where can i see how many waggons my train can pull?
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08:21<frosch123>downhill about 127
08:22<LordAro>there'll probably be a wiki page somewhere
08:23<frosch123>HellTiger: just try it
08:23<frosch123>there are so many variables in that question, like track profile, wagon load and so on
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08:29<@Alberth>you can even pull 127 wagons up-hill, it's just a tad slow at 1km/h :p
08:36<HellTiger>ah :>
08:53<HellTiger>hm there was some technical blue window
08:53<HellTiger>but i was on fast forward
08:53<HellTiger>and its gone
08:53<HellTiger>i could not find it again in the menu
08:53<HellTiger>or in message log
08:53<frosch123>it's a engine preview
08:53<HellTiger>but it was about railway
08:54<frosch123>sometimes you are asked whether you want to test a new engine one year in advance
08:56<frosch123>colour coding is nice, isn't it :)
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09:25<LordAro>it has to be said, however, if while on fast forward the engine preview window flashes away too quickly, you haven't built enough! :P
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09:30<@Alberth>instead of fast-forward, watch the flow of the trains for possible improvements :)
09:33<HellTiger>can i assign collecting routes to a group`?
09:34<LordAro>find 'shared orders' on the wiki
09:42<HellTiger>hm i try to demolish lorry station, but it says i have to demolish first lorry station
09:42<HellTiger>i tried all bombs
09:42<HellTiger>none worked
09:42<HellTiger>on mouse over there stands demolish building
09:43<+michi_cc>Is it a a drive-through station instead of an dead-end station by chance?
09:43<HellTiger>drive through michi_cc
09:44<+michi_cc>Then you might have built it on a town-owned road and you need to use the remove tools instead of the demolish tool. No idea though why it doesn't give a proper error message.
09:45<Zuu>Eg. pick the drive through station to build and then press the R key to toggle removal.
09:47<HellTiger>with R key it worked!
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10:02<Superuser>puts "Hello world"
10:02<Superuser> -- why has my patch not been accepted yet?
10:02<Superuser>it is trivial to apply a patch
10:09<frosch123>team up with oberhümer, and fork
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10:12<__ln__>Superuser: you only submitted that two weeks ago
10:13<__ln__>Superuser: expect 4..12 months response time for trivial patches
10:18<LordAro>Rule no. 1 of submitting patches to open-source projects: Be patient.
10:19<LordAro>Rule no. 2: Nag the devs constantly :)
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10:28<rainbowtux>hi all, what is the best way to start a profitable game? i started out with busses + 2 trains, but the early trains break down so often, profit is low
10:29<frosch123>build longer lines
10:29<frosch123>transport coal
10:30<rainbowtux>frosch123: but longer lines result in more break downs, not?
10:30<frosch123>get an engine with a higher reliability
10:31<frosch123>and enforce servicing on every trip
10:31<rainbowtux>i also try to combine the lines in one circuit, to reduce track costs, but then break down problems can accumulate (trains stuck behind broken colleagues)
10:31<frosch123>i.e. not every 180 days or something silly, but as part of the orders
10:31<rainbowtux>frosch123: ah, that is a nice hint
10:32<frosch123>anyway, your first train should make at least £20k per trip
10:33<frosch123>else the line is too short
10:34<frosch123>(that is for default engines, if you are starting very early with very cheap early engines, you might get away with less)
10:34<frosch123>if you have big towns with >3k population, you can also do train service between them for a start
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10:36<rainbowtux>frosch123: oh, lots to try thus :)
10:36<rainbowtux>i was also in doubt... full load cargo or let them fill up for what is available and travel more often?
10:37<frosch123>for cargo always full load
10:37<frosch123>for passengers which load at multiple stations you want to use timetables to enforce a loading time of 2 to 5 days
10:38<frosch123>mind that for cargo payment the time the cargo is loaded into a waiting train counts
10:38<frosch123>so, you do want shorter trains with shorter loading times on shorter routes
10:39<frosch123>so, the time spend loading is not too big compared to the actual travel time
10:40<frosch123>on my first routes i usually try for 3 trains, with one train always loading
10:40<HellTiger>is coverage important to supply goods?
10:40<frosch123>so it's 1/3 loading, 1/3 travelling source to destination, 1/3 travelling back
10:40<frosch123>HellTiger: no
10:40<frosch123>it's either yes or no
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10:43<rainbowtux>frosch123: thx
10:45<frosch123>[15:32] <frosch123> anyway, your first train should make at least £20k per trip <- hmm, maybe i messed up currencies, and i meant only £10k, and €20k :)
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10:49<rainbowtux>hehe :)
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10:52<HellTiger>hm i have a train with woods and goods wagon. one station is connected to forest and some city buildings, other station is connected to sawmill, now the train collect goods at sawmill, then unloads at city but he re-load goods cargo?
10:53<frosch123>never set your orders to "unload"
10:53<HellTiger>ok i try
10:54<frosch123>well, you can set loading and unloading independently
10:54<HellTiger>hm now he dont drops goods in city
10:54<frosch123>so, set it to "load if available" and "unload if accepted" or something like that
10:55<HellTiger>the default settings
10:55<HellTiger>for trains
10:56<HellTiger>still no unload of goods :|
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10:57<frosch123>well, does the station say it accepts them?
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11:45<supermop>hows it going?
11:48<frosch123>tlo has a good chance on becoming group winner
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12:01<supermop>trying to figure out how to run both local and express services on a single track line
12:02<supermop>so that the express passes the local in a station
12:02<supermop>writing out schedules on graph paper
12:03<Zuu>As a graphical time table?
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12:06<supermop>i just want to interlace the lines for two different trains to keep track of where each one is relative to the other at a given time
12:07<supermop>if you are playing with the 24hr clock its easy
12:07<supermop>but im at work, so on a mac
12:08<supermop>and unaware of any departure board+ CD binaries for mac new enough to run GS etc
12:09<supermop>the idea is to then figure out free slots when this sugar cane train can sneak in without delaying either passenger train
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12:37<HellTiger>hm looks like its good to have at begin in each city bus service, so the citys grow faster?
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12:38<LordAro>that is how the game mechanics are made ;)
12:40<HellTiger>i wish there where for every button a shortcut
12:40<HellTiger> isnt that big
12:40<LordAro>there are for most
12:41<Ristovski>HellTiger: impossible
12:41<HellTiger>like take orientation of bus station
12:41<Ristovski>you can't have shortcuts for *all* the buttons
12:41<HellTiger>open vehicle depo
12:41<HellTiger>assign targets
12:41<HellTiger>ok. but why not?
12:41<HellTiger>i cant code.
12:41<LordAro>so you want to play ottd by typing? :P
12:41<frosch123>LordAro: that's normal
12:41<HellTiger>its much faster
12:42<HellTiger>and for dwarf fortress i wish a mouse gui.
12:42<frosch123>HellTiger: there are hotkeys for all construction actions
12:42<HellTiger>so i dont need hotkeys anymore.
12:42<frosch123>and for the main order things
12:42<Ristovski>orientation could be a single button, which would cycle through all the orientations
12:42<HellTiger>are they in
12:42<frosch123>i believe order window is asdfghj
12:42<frosch123>take a look at hotkey.cfg
12:43<frosch123>which you find in the same directory as openttd.cfg
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12:44<frosch123> <- that's the default section for order hotkeys
12:46<HellTiger>oh great
12:46<HellTiger>g works for goto
12:46<HellTiger>its logical
12:47<frosch123>there is also an advancted setting (i believe "quick goto") which makes goto depressed when opening the order gui
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12:58<andythenorth_>Ottd is dying?
13:00<Ristovski>andythenorth_: wat?
13:01<LordAro>explain yourself andy
13:02<LordAro>or has there been another post on the forums?
13:04<andythenorth_>There's nothing at all in the forums
13:05<andythenorth_>Not even stupid questions
13:05<andythenorth_>Also there are only 3 people left writing ottd code
13:06<andythenorth_>And almost no significant newgrf projects
13:06<Ristovski>only 3 active devs?
13:06<LordAro>which 3 are you referring to?
13:06<andythenorth_>It's not the first time
13:07<LordAro>it's not the first time you've said it either :L
13:10<frosch123>LordAro: one of them is "translators"
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13:11<LordAro>i was gonna say, there's been at least a commit a day for ages now :L
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13:22<Zuu>So now it should be easier to maintain patcches for OpenTTD when it is less of a moving target. :-)
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13:22<LordAro>has andy always had such an awful connection?
13:22<LordAro>hi Zuu, btw :)
13:23<Zuu>Hello LordAro
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13:38<wil3>Hi everyone - I fancy playing a quick game... haven't played for years (last time I did assets from the cd)... This time, it looks much more complicated... I clicked on AI and I guess I need to download one before I play - but, I don't have a clue which... what is best? Is there a quick guide I have missed?
13:40<LordAro>pick one
13:40<LordAro>i would reccomend simpleai though - it's most like the old original AI
13:40<LordAro>also, AroAI </plug>
13:41<wil3>All these new acronyms are scary to someone who just wants to play!... I saw Simple AI, but it mentions non-newgrf... I don't really understand, don't I want new features?
13:41<wil3>...I'm happy to try anything!
13:41<wil3>So, simpleAI and AroAI?
13:41<LordAro>it honestly is anything you want
13:41<LordAro>try them and see
13:41<LordAro>if you don't like them, try another :)
13:41<wil3>some of these mention things like change the way cities grow... I'm just worried I will mess up the base game! I just want to play!
13:42<LordAro>those sound like game scripts - yes, they will
13:42<LordAro>they are for things like only allowing towns to grow when certain cargoes have been transported
13:44<wil3>I understand, just confused why they were on the AI menu... Thanks... playing now :)
13:45<LordAro>they are both in the 'scripts' menu, i think you'll find ;)
13:45<wil3>ahh, called AI/Game script... sorry, my bad!
13:59<HellTiger>hm train finds way out of depot but not into depot?
14:00<Zuu>Do you have the depot on a side track?
14:01<HellTiger>my first signal route
14:01<Zuu>The pathfinder accepts up to X penalty cost units before it stops searching for depots.
14:02<Zuu>X is 16 or 18 tile equivalents or so.
14:02<HellTiger>tut says put a signal in front of depot, so it needs a track
14:02<Zuu>A red signal has a quite high penalty
14:02<Zuu>Eg. use non-PBS signals if possible to reduce the signal penalty
14:02<Zuu>Or shorten the side track length
14:03<@Alberth>(07:02:03 PM) HellTiger: tut says put a signal in front of depot, so it needs a track <-- that's wrong
14:03<HellTiger>i build new one depot without track, still train cant find?
14:03<Zuu>Does the train orders include a depot in the order list?
14:04<HellTiger>they had to drive to other industry first
14:04<HellTiger>now it works
14:04<@Alberth>how far from the train is the depot? there is a limited distance that the train looks for depots. Also, it does not continuously look for depots, just every now and then
14:05<Zuu>If at least one depot is included in the order list, they will not look for depots not no the list.
14:07<HellTiger>the last thing i didnt understand
14:07<Zuu>Order lists?
14:08<HellTiger>[19:05:54] <Zuu> s/\bno\b/on/
14:08<Zuu>Thats a regex to fix the typo in my previous message
14:09<Zuu>On IRC with technical people it is common that typos are fixed used regex notation.
14:11<Zuu>The regex above replaces "no" with "on", but only if "no" is adjacent to a word beginning/ending. (eg. not inside a word)
14:12<@Alberth>s/no t/on t/ :)
14:13<Zuu>works too :-)
14:14<frosch123>just think of it as some kind of weird smiley :p
14:14<LordAro>of course, normal people would've written "*on the list"
14:14<frosch123>"emoticon" is the term
14:15<Zuu>LordAro: With the star notation, I usally put the star after the corrected word.
14:16<Zuu>And talking of smileies, if you want more smilies in your game, you should play against CluelessPlus :-)
14:17<Zuu>(it uses various smilies in order to create unique station names)
14:20<LordAro>i still don't understand why it can't save that information in a table/whatever
14:20<LordAro>rather than have ugly station names everywhere :L
14:20<@Alberth>just disable showing of station names :)
14:20<LordAro>then i can't find my stations :P
14:28<LordAro>gah, still snowing
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14:30<Zuu>LordAro: Disable showing of competitor signs if you can't stand them
14:30<LordAro>there's a setting for that? :L
14:30<Zuu>LordAro: If the AI crashes that table is lost, if it is stored in the map you can save the map after the AI crashed and re-load to recover.
14:31<Zuu>It may not be the fastest, but I took the design desicion to not store things in memory unless it can't be stored in names or building pattern.
14:32<LordAro>what is stored in the town names that can't be recovered from the map
14:32<frosch123>so ais should be allowed to save a json string in every industry/town/vehicle/group/... :)
14:32<frosch123>same for gs
14:33<Zuu>LordAro: CluelessPlus store industry/town ID as well as cargo ID for all stations.
14:33<Zuu>cargo ID could in many cases be recovered from the vehicles (but not always)
14:34<Zuu>Industry/town ID is not always possible to recover if a station covers several industries/towns.
14:35<LordAro>fair enough :L
14:35<Zuu>In the vehicle name, CluelessPlus store the state of vehicles. This information is used to recover state information about the connection.
14:36<Zuu>Eg. to figure out if a connection was paused when the save was made or if some vehicle was sent to depot for selling.
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14:40<Zuu>Besides, I don't think the CluelessPlus station names are ugly :-)
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14:41<frosch123>wasn't clueless the ai which uses names like clueless, lessclueless, somewhatclueless, someclue, ... ?
14:42<Zuu>clueless, cluemore, ...
14:43<@Alberth>o/ andy
14:44<Zuu>I remember when the number of company slots was increased from 7/8? to 15. I had to double the amount of steps in the AI naming. :-)
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25116 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-23 18:45:19 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>greek - 2 changes by Evropi
14:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
14:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
14:46<frosch123>lol, just remembered the naming discussion of aroai :)
14:47-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:48<frosch123>oh, that's almost 4 years ago
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14:51<LordAro>good god, has it been that long? :L
14:52<frosch123> <- you refused to use "or lardo"
14:52<LordAro>hehe :)
14:53<LordAro>see, if you dev chaps hadn't completely removed the original AI, you wouldn't have had the pleasure of 'metting' me :D
14:55<LordAro>actually: s/'metting'/getting to know/
14:55<LordAro>better choice of words
14:55<frosch123>well, i guess we were close to meating you, petert and yorick at some point :p
14:56<LordAro>were you?
14:56<frosch123>the 3 underaged guys who wanted to know everything :p
14:56<Zuu>LordAro: ^ "meating"
14:57<LordAro>ah yes, i can understand that :L
14:57<LordAro>@seen petert
14:57<@DorpsGek>LordAro: petert was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 21 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 59 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <PeterT> TrueBrain: who is a PeterT in the making?
14:57<LordAro>@seen yorick
14:57<@DorpsGek>LordAro: yorick was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 11 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 18 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <yorick> random sort instead of alphabetic sort may be better
14:57<frosch123>haha, fits perfectly
14:58<LordAro>i win?
14:58<Zuu>@seen LordAro
14:58<@DorpsGek>Zuu: LordAro was last seen in #openttd 9 seconds ago: <LordAro> i win?
14:59<LordAro>since we're doing @seen's, the obligatory:
14:59<LordAro>@seen bjarni
14:59<@DorpsGek>LordAro: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 24 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
15:00<TrueBrain>now I feel obligatedd to test the @kick :P
15:00<LordAro>O.o was it really 1 1/2 years since he 'came back'?
15:00*LordAro whistles innocently
15:00<Zuu>TrueBrain: :-)
15:01<frosch123>LordAro: i think that was already the second "came back" then
15:01<LordAro>hello TrueBrain :)
15:05<LordAro>and lets face it, if i hadn't, __ln__ would've anyway :P
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15:14<Taeioum>Hey guys.
15:15<Taeioum>Lemme go search the forums before I ask any questions that have already been asked before..
15:16*LordAro blinks in shock
15:16<frosch123>Taeioum: was ottd featured somewhere?
15:16<frosch123>your are the third newbie today :)
15:17<Taeioum>Hah, nice :)
15:17<Taeioum>I've played TT off an on since I was like 8
15:17<Taeioum>12 years ago that is
15:17<Taeioum>Anyways. I start a new game using OpenTTD and AdmiralAI gives me an error straight away
15:17<frosch123>hmm, how old was i in 95?
15:17<frosch123>aw, 13
15:18<frosch123>i had no chance to play ttd at age of 8
15:18<Taeioum>I had no clue the game existed until like 2000 when a friend showed me it
15:18<frosch123>i had to play with gwbasic at 8 :)
15:18<Taeioum>Since then every 2-3 years I just get a sudden urge to play again
15:18<Taeioum>I'm still a noob at it though. Compared to all the screenshots I've seen
15:19<Taeioum>Train track junctions and such, dang.
15:19<frosch123>we had an rts guy earlier today, who asked about hotkeys first :)
15:19<Taeioum>Then again my English back then was terrible
15:19<Taeioum>And haha, I can deal with just my mouse and the ESC button
15:20<frosch123>oh, it is said my english was better at age 8 than at 10
15:20<Taeioum>Anyways, anyone have an idea what to do about the error AdmiralAI is giving me?
15:20<frosch123>i was able to repeat the programming terms i learned when i was 7/8 as i was told how they were spoken
15:20<Taeioum>At first OpenTTD didn't run fullscreen anymore, but that's fixed.
15:21<LordAro>probably nothing you can do, other than report it to Yexo, but he hasn't been seen in
15:21<LordAro>@seen Yexo
15:21<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
15:21<frosch123>then i learned how to read german properly in school, and thus changed to pronounce everything in german :p
15:21<Taeioum>I just maximize, let's me enjoy a semi-fullscreen 1366x768
15:21<Taeioum>Ah, I'm Dutch myself, my German's horrible
15:21<Taeioum>Then again my Dutch is getting worse by the day. I pretty much speak English all day.
15:22<LordAro>woo, English!
15:22<Taeioum>I know right..
15:22<frosch123>LordAro: you should also learn proper english :p
15:22*LordAro can speak some French, and not much else...
15:22<LordAro>other than English, obviously
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15:23<frosch123>LordAro: that's fine, you should get around well in europe
15:23<frosch123>everyone speaks english, except the french
15:23<frosch123>or so :p
15:23<Taeioum>Technical English is a lot harder than the every day conversational English though.
15:23-!-RavingManiac [~RavingMan@] has joined #openttd
15:23<LordAro>although a few moneths ago i was informed by a Swede that i'm supposed to capitalize things like 'English'
15:23<Taeioum>I've found out I'm lacking big time when it comes to that
15:24<frosch123>LordAro: i am sure it was a finnish guy
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15:25-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:25<LordAro>nah, i think it was chrill, and he's swedish, right? :L
15:25<frosch123>Taeioum: when i had to look up "perpendicular" in a dictionary some years ago, it encouraged me to focus on latin and drop english in school
15:26<frosch123>dropping english in school was the best decision i ever made in school
15:26<LordAro>ah, andy, quick, help me bash european (languages)
15:26<frosch123>school english is so useless
15:26<frosch123>LordAro: you have a weird choice who to team up with :p
15:27<Taeioum>I never had to study and was always the best in class with English
15:27<Taeioum>But yeah, there's no technical English in there
15:27<+michi_cc>I took Latin to get rid of French faster ;)
15:27<Taeioum>And it's British English, so..
15:27<frosch123>michi_cc: i took russian to get rid of english faster :p
15:28<LordAro>"American English is a collection of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors." ~ LordAro, 2012
15:28<frosch123>the fun part about russian is that the first 6 months are only about the alphabet
15:28<+michi_cc>To be fair though, that was because of the teacher and not so much the language.
15:29<frosch123>well, when english switched from "learning english" to "learning english literature" i dropped from 9-10 points to 4-5
15:29<frosch123>(15 = best)
15:30<frosch123>though when german switched from "interpreting unknown stuff" to "interpreting popular stuff, where you can find a summary on the internet", i improved a lot :)
15:31<Taeioum>Pretty sure I just installed AdmiralAI wrong though. Never played using openttd before
15:31<frosch123>Taeioum: just download it in the ingame content thingie
15:31<LordAro>Taeioum: if ytou downloaded it through the online content, you did it fine
15:31<frosch123>then go to the ai settings and set up some random ais, or if you really want enforce to use admiral
15:31<Taeioum>I tried man. Going that way shows nothing
15:31<LordAro>iirc, admiralai is currently broken
15:32<@DorpsGek>LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
15:32<Taeioum>Afaik there's no ports blocked or closed though
15:32<Taeioum>I'll just check again
15:32<LordAro>that's usually what it is
15:33<LordAro>or someone 'further up' blocking it
15:33<LordAro>school or whatever
15:34<Taeioum>Lemme check
15:35*LordAro -> dinner [feel free to talk at me, i just won't reply]
15:37<frosch123>yeah, don't talk with your mouth full
15:37<Taeioum>Mkay, so I checked. Manually installed AdmiralAI at first
15:38<Taeioum>Just dumped the folder in the openttd\ai folder
15:38<Taeioum>Didn't work so I took out the files, deleted the folder
15:38<Taeioum>Same thing
15:38<Taeioum>Deleted it all together now, ingame looking at the menu
15:39<Taeioum>I can see the menu alright, just the download button is greyed out
15:39<frosch123>if you install it manually, then put the .tar in the ai directory
15:39<frosch123>if you get a zip, decompress it
15:39<frosch123>but do not extract the .tar
15:39<@Alberth>you also have to set the number of opponents
15:39<@Alberth>and the AI usually starts a year or so later
15:40<@Alberth>oh, and you need to start a new game with the AI, it won't get added to a game you load
15:40<Taeioum>I know it starts like 178 days later
15:40<frosch123>Alberth: sure you can add ais to a game
15:40<Taeioum>But just can't find how to properly install the AI into the folder
15:41<frosch123>that happens all the time, bankrupting and restarting
15:41<@Alberth>k, just listing some probable causes for "not working"
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15:42<Taeioum>Just a screenshot of someone's ai folder should do it for me honestly.
15:42<Taeioum>Cause I'm just not sure how to add them
15:42<Taeioum>Hold on
15:42<Taeioum>Might have just gotten it
15:44<@Alberth> :)
15:45<Ristovski>oh nice, im not the only one using linux
15:45<Taeioum>Haven't really tried linux yet ever.
15:45<frosch123>you can safely assume > 50% in this cannel
15:45<Taeioum>Actually running Win8 at the moment.
15:46<frosch123>(well, considering the active talkers, no idea about the idlers)
15:46<Taeioum>I deleted what I put into the ai folder
15:46<Taeioum>I forgot to check the box in the downloadable AIs list
15:46<Taeioum>Downloaded ingame, checked the AI folder, empty.
15:49<frosch123>it's in content_download/ai
15:49<frosch123>the stuff from the ingame download is stored separately from those which you collect manually
15:50<frosch123>because you might want to backup the manually collected ones
15:50<frosch123>while that makes no sense for the ingame downloaded ones
15:55<Taeioum>Oh well, we'll see.
15:55<Taeioum>I added another competitor and it didn't show any errors
15:55<Taeioum>So we'll just let the game run for like 3 game years, and I'll see if they start building
15:56<frosch123>you can speed that up by opening the ingame-console
15:56<frosch123>and typing "start_ai"
15:56<frosch123>open the console like in any game with a console, using the key left to 1
16:00<Taeioum>How exactly?
16:00<frosch123>eh, press the key left to "1!
16:00<frosch123>sometimes it is ~, sometimes ^
16:02<Ristovski>it's either ` or ~
16:02<Ristovski>under escape
16:03<andythenorth>frosch123: I'd like to attach an on-click handler to specific sprites in an advanced spritelayout, with a cb to the grf
16:03<frosch123>andythenorth: want to make the bubbles of the bubblegenerator pop-able?
16:04<andythenorth>yeah, effectively that :)
16:04<andythenorth>good guess
16:04<andythenorth>actually cows that moo when you click on them
16:04<frosch123>anyway, you have to make it a command send over the network
16:04<frosch123>and i guess you need some kind of access control
16:05<frosch123>who is allowed to click?
16:05<frosch123>companies? spectators?
16:05<andythenorth>mostly my toddler I think
16:05<andythenorth>all running games containing FIRS, everywhere, moo when he clicks
16:05<frosch123>[21:04] <andythenorth> actually cows that moo when you click on them <- oh, that would be client-side :)
16:06<frosch123>i think belugas wrote a ottd, which replaced the intro menu with a big "toot-toot" button
16:07<andythenorth>currently we are mostly playing this :P
16:07<frosch123>pff, showing your toddler apple stuff
16:07<frosch123>don't you want him/her to become a healthy child?
16:08<andythenorth>an apple a day...
16:09<andythenorth>is very healthy :P
16:09<Taeioum>I'm sorry, didn't know exactly what you meant with the key left to 1
16:09<Taeioum>` or ~ woulda worked ;)
16:09<frosch123>it's ^ here :p
16:10<Taeioum>It says there's a competitor using the name AdmiralAI Transport. Let's see if it actually builds
16:11<Taeioum>Yep! it builds!
16:14<supermop>hey andythenorth: what about a yorkshire basic firs economy?
16:14<Supercheese>Irish basic
16:14<Supercheese>potatoes and Guinness
16:14<supermop>i was thinking north yorkshire, but I guess you could do south to add coal
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16:14<supermop>haha tetleys
16:15<supermop>industries removed from map circa 2010?
16:15<supermop>sam smiths?
16:15<andythenorth>my local serves sam smiths
16:15<supermop>i prefer black sheep brewery
16:16<supermop>i remember lots of rapeseed grown near where i lived between leeds and harrogate
16:16<supermop>lots of cows
16:16<supermop>then sheep in the dales
16:22<supermop>also the port should import tea
16:22<supermop>which is delivered to Betty's or Taylor's in towns
16:24<andythenorth>I've been to Yorkshire
16:25<supermop>it's quite a big place
16:25<supermop>they've lot's of that
16:25<andythenorth>imports: flat caps, whippets
16:25<andythenorth>exports: flat vowels
16:25<supermop>not sure if they use it industrially
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16:26<andythenorth>industry: former coal mine, produces brass bands and smack addicts
16:26<supermop>a small port layout for canals and rivers would be yorkshire appropriate
16:26<andythenorth>industry: car pound, requires burnt-out cars (twoced)
16:27<andythenorth>industry: police station, requires body armour
16:28<supermop>how are you planning on planning the various firs economies?
16:28<supermop>and will there be non-basic, non-full economies?
16:30<andythenorth>there will be around 12 economies in total
16:30<andythenorth>more is overkill
16:30<LordAro>still snowing here...
16:31<andythenorth>can someone write a FIRS documentation auto-generator, thanks
16:31<andythenorth>you'll want to repackage some of the python files first
16:31*andythenorth would do it, but is sick
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16:32<andythenorth>there's an example one here for Squid Ate FISH
16:32<andythenorth>auto-generated when the grf is built
16:32<andythenorth>it's not hard :P
16:36<@Alberth>imho it would be more readable if you have more columns
16:37<andythenorth>it's a quick proof of concept tbh
16:37<andythenorth>it needs tablesorting and other stuff too :)
16:37<@Alberth>just give the numbers some colour?
16:37<@Alberth>or the words, or both :p
16:39<andythenorth>what I need to do more is get stuff out of the lang file
16:39<andythenorth>anyone know how to parse a lang file with python?
16:39<andythenorth>getting it into a dict would do :P
16:40<andythenorth>where have I seen something like that recently? o_O
16:41<frosch123>you have weird dreams when you are sick
16:41<andythenorth>actually I do
16:42<frosch123>about unicorns?
16:42<andythenorth>not so much
16:45*Alberth raises hand
16:45<frosch123>ah, Alberth dreamed about unicorns
16:45<@Alberth>the eints project parses lang files, and it is even written in python :p
16:46<@Alberth>frosch123: unfortunately no, but perhaps tonight
16:46<frosch123>nml also parses lang files :p
16:46<frosch123>wt3 as well
16:46<@Alberth>the check translations script does too
16:46<frosch123>so, i guess the majority of software that parses lang files, is writting ni python
16:47<frosch123>all, except strgen
16:47<andythenorth>I guess I could look in my eints checkout :P
16:47<@Alberth>frosch123: the exception to the rule :p
16:48<andythenorth>there is a unicorn in this video
16:48<andythenorth>after the screaming babies
16:49<andythenorth>for legal reasons, I now have to say that I am involved in making and promoting the video :P
16:49<andythenorth>it's illegal not to under UK law ;)
16:50<frosch123>are you the singer?
16:50<frosch123>with the two toddlers
16:51<Ristovski>damn mosquito
16:52<andythenorth>frosch123: not so much no
16:52<andythenorth>Alberth: a lot of work just in that file :o
16:52<andythenorth>load_language_file() looks like a starting point for me
16:52<andythenorth>although all I need probably is to split each line on ':'
16:53<frosch123>can you get hold of that unicorn costume for me?
16:54<@Alberth>andythenorth: m = string_pat.match(line) does the split on : line 645
16:56<andythenorth>Alberth: thanks
16:56<andythenorth>frosch123: I could ask ;)
16:57<frosch123>will you attend the r25k meeting in it?
17:00<andythenorth>r25k :o
17:00<frosch123>oh, 1300€ for a unicorn costume
17:00<andythenorth>perhaps I withdraw my 'ottd is dying' comment :)
17:01<frosch123>you dreamed we were already at r25116?
17:06<andythenorth>I think so
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17:35<andythenorth>improve this? :P
17:35<andythenorth>strings = dict((line.split(':')[0].strip(), line.split(':')[1].strip()) for line in text if ':' in line)
17:35<andythenorth>'text' is a lang file :P
17:36<frosch123>i guess first store the split result in a variable
17:36<frosch123>then check the array for being bigger than 1
17:36<frosch123>then strip [0] and [1,]
17:36<frosch123>mind [1,] vs [1]
17:37<andythenorth>I was playing 1 line python :(
17:37<frosch123>oh, sorry :p
17:37<frosch123>is there a comma operator in python?
17:37<andythenorth>I don't think I won
17:38<frosch123>recently i noticed that you can overload the comma operator in c++
17:38<frosch123>since then i am searching a usecase for it :p
17:40<V453000>oh andy with his apocalyptic announcements :P
17:41<frosch123>V453000: did you know how expensive costumes are?
17:42<V453000>I heard you just need to skin your unicorn and take its horn on your own head
17:43<frosch123>though it's interesting that it is sorted in the category "farm-animals" -> "horses" -> "unicorn"
17:43<frosch123>apparently there are unicorn farms
17:43<andythenorth>got to come from somewhere
17:45<frosch123>well, i was under the assumption my garage would have been the only source
17:53*andythenorth writes some actual code
17:55<@Alberth>str.split has a max split count
17:56<andythenorth>I should use that
17:58<andythenorth>^ no more [] in the ship names
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18:08<andythenorth>ho ho
18:08<andythenorth>so how much detail should online docs give for a newgrf?
18:08<andythenorth>is providing the capacity, speed etc bad?
18:08<andythenorth>it's a bit lame to know in advance :P
18:11<V453000> Idont think stats themselves matter andy
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18:11<V453000>but describing things like usage is nice
18:11<V453000>you can read stats in the game anyway
18:11*andythenorth waits for bundles to catch up :P
18:11<andythenorth>fewer stats
18:12<V453000>the intro dates are nice to have so people can check when comes the next vehicle
18:12<andythenorth>and see the date range the grf works for
18:12<V453000>idk, you can see what I think about it if you look at nuts wiki :p
18:13<andythenorth>no kittens :P
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18:20*Zuu actually played the game a bit :-)
18:22<Zuu>Hmm 1,299 euro for a unicorn
18:23<Zuu>And I guess it is not a decimal comma but a thousand separator.
18:23<frosch123>it's not specific to a unicorn
18:24<frosch123>all stuff there costs about that
18:24<supermop>speed capacity, name, should all be randomized
18:24<supermop>make people buy the sh 30
18:24<frosch123>i guess it's a professional shop or so
18:25<frosch123>you can get a toddler unicorn costume for 30€
18:25<supermop>because its called the Kirby 1000 this game and you have no idea what it is or when the Kirby Paul 2000 will come out
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18:27<frosch123> <- maybe everyone at the r25k party could wear one of those :p
18:27<frosch123>though the guy does not look particulary happy about acting as unicorn model :)
18:28<frosch123>i see, you like the idea :)
18:29<Zuu>Yeah, lets make it a unicorn party :-)
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18:52<andythenorth>just needs a picture now :)
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 24 00:00:45 2013