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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-27

---Logopened Wed Mar 27 00:00:51 2013
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04:09<V453000>where the hell is andy :D
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04:14<Eddi|zuHause>where in the world is andy sandiego?
04:14<V453000>in ze north? :D
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04:26<V453000>hm, does anyone has an idea what does AORE in ECS stand for?
04:27<V453000>there is no bauxite/aluminium ore, right?
04:27<V453000> claimz that ECS uses it
04:28<V453000>oh there is
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04:29<V453000>strange, loading machinery vector does not enable it apparently
04:30<V453000>while claims that
04:31<V453000>well, fuck ecs
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04:33<Eddi|zuHause>ECS vectors is weird somewhat, the vectors have to be loaded in the right order
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05:00<V453000>I guess, it is kind of written there but I cba to load 321413 newGRFs tbh
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05:05<V453000>why I am solving all this is because I never imagined bauxite as rather light pink, which andy currently added to CHIPS :D as FIRS uses the original copper ore mine and ECS uses some other colour bauxite thing, I am not sure what to think of that
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05:08<V453000>andythenorth: what colour is bauxite meant to be? :d pink?
05:09<V453000>also hello :P
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05:09<V453000>that be orange/red not pink
05:10<andythenorth>funny colour bauxite
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05:11<V453000>according to latest chips
05:11<V453000>if you are sure on that I will just adapt NUTS to it
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05:14<andythenorth>I made that quite ugly :o
05:14<andythenorth>ho ho
05:15<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> ho ho <-- yes, it looks very christmas-y outside :p
05:15<Eddi|zuHause>we had easter-weather on christmas, so it's only fair to have christmas-weather on easter :p
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05:16<V453000>well, if you made an intended thing, I would happily adapt :P NUTS uses this
05:16<V453000>should be more red I assume
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05:17<andythenorth>I guess it should be more red
05:17<andythenorth>but then it might conflict with iron ore and copper :P
05:17<andythenorth>and I think I used the pink in HEQS :P
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>metals are just all the same, lets unify them... 10CC-style :p
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>just have "passengers", "mail", "raw materials" and "goods" as cargo :p
05:19<V453000>What I have to say is, the pink certainly does not conflict with anything :D
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>and possibly some food-ish stuff to make town growth happy
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05:19<V453000>so I am not Entirely against pink but it looked wtf on the first sight
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05:20<V453000>bye eddi :<
05:20<andythenorth>come back eddi :P
05:21<alandarev>is there any solid pack with 32bit graphics?
05:22<V453000>if solid word is important, no
05:23<V453000>pixel art rules the world today
05:23<V453000>3rd expansion to starcraft will be in pixel art too
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05:27<V453000>andythenorth: I will try to think about something
05:27<V453000>like now
05:29<V453000>option A: candyfloss pink, theme: when WTF, then properly WTF
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05:37<V453000>andythenorth: the heaps in CHIPS need more shades :P 4 aint enough ... I might give it a try to enhance them sometime soon if you like
05:38<andythenorth>4 is ttd style :P
05:39<andythenorth>V453000: also would you ever use anything like this when working on your grfs?
05:39<andythenorth>trying to figure out if it's useful
05:40<V453000>you mean the page itself?
05:40<V453000>I think pages like this are massively useful because cargoes are major mess, but I think unified in the tt-wiki in cargo labels is the best spot in the end
05:40<V453000>4 is borked, ttd style regardless :P
05:41<V453000>OR needs to have 4 with larger brightness range for moar contrast
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05:41<andythenorth>V453000: which info is useful in the page?
05:42*andythenorth needs a user to think about when designing it
05:43<V453000>well of course mainly which cargo goes to which label
05:43<V453000>I still think the most important information is which All cargoes do go under that label which is best on unified page at tt-wiki
05:43<V453000>But, info like ID and multiplier is sure good to know
05:44<V453000>or, can be I guess :)
05:44<andythenorth>I could print out loads of info-porn, just not sure if anyone cares :P
05:44<V453000>:D info porn
05:44<V453000>anyway, the thing I posted is my attempt at bauxite colour
05:44<V453000>uses a bit of pink plus the darker pink and pinkbrown
05:44*andythenorth -> work
05:45<V453000>didnt try to "enhance"tm the heap of shit yet
05:45<andythenorth>V453000: looks better I think
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06:17<alandarev>are bots supported in multiplayer? (I know there isn't much sense in having bots in MP but still)
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06:19<V453000>yes and yes
06:24<peter1139>of course
06:28<V453000>well AI in single player indeed is pointless, but in multiplayer it is seriously wtf :D
06:28<V453000>reducing your cpu cause yeah
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06:35<peter1139>oh you
06:38<V453000>I want to have as short work shifts as you andy
06:38<V453000>50 minutes
06:39<V453000>do you actually teach some bastards? :D
06:39<@Terkhen>good morning
06:40<V453000>hi Terkhen
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07:19<V453000>OMG all ships drawn :D
07:20<andythenorth>V453000: irc at work innit
07:20<V453000>well it is one ship right now, but all wagons
07:20<andythenorth>I am boss
07:20<V453000>well we know that :p
07:22<V453000>anyway, looking at your heap naow
07:23<andythenorth>this is me
07:23<andythenorth>V453000: I don't like those heaps
07:23<andythenorth>you have to redraw them all
07:23<andythenorth>they're too high
07:24<V453000>high is nice But they need more contrast and shit so that that they would look less flat
07:24<V453000>:D nice leader
07:24<andythenorth>also this guy
07:24<andythenorth>is me
07:24<V453000>I will try some enhancing when keeping the same shape for now
07:24<andythenorth>I even look like that
07:24*andythenorth is distracted
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07:35<V453000> somewhat?
07:35<V453000>andythenorth: ^
07:35<andythenorth>ok nice
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07:40<alandarev>do I put grf files into My documents/OpentTD/newgrf?
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07:49<V453000>I choose option 4
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07:55<V453000>wat andy gone again
07:55<V453000>he doesnt have backlog does he
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08:23<alandarev>can I increase UI scale, as high resolution small monitor is a pain in the ass how UI becomes uber-small
08:28<Pinkbeast>Increasing the font size will help a bit...
08:34<alandarev>why I can't find zBase in-game Check Online Content feature?
08:34<alandarev>nevermind :( found it after opened same thing from main menu
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08:41<V453000>andythenorth: this is how my hopper cargoes look with the eventual heap ... just directly recoloured, no touches
08:48<alandarev>looks fine
08:48<alandarev>ah sweet, zBase is exactly what I needed :)
09:06<alandarev>how do I add that difficult town growth requirements to my game (offline) the ones I saw on town-challenge servers?
09:07<HellTiger>how much money i should have to start building tracks complete around a 256*256 island?
09:08<__ln__>*starting* is cheap
09:11<alandarev>where can i find server scripts?
09:12<V453000>try game scripts
09:12<alandarev>thanks, now i can find :)
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09:36<alandarev>can I have several game scripts?
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09:55<alandarev>I am having problems trying to download Balanced City Growth game script. through manager, it downloads I click OK, and then it just dissapears, if I go to manager again - it offers to download again (no green circle)
09:55<alandarev>I tried manually, I have put the tar.gz file into newgfx folder but game does not detect it
09:57<alandarev>I can see the file in Openttd/content_download/game/balanced_city_growth-3.tar but in GS selection it is not there
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10:54<Bonez305>what setting in cfg would I change to make the game finish at a certain amount of money and restart?
10:57<@Belugas>as far as i remember, nowhere. You would need a goal script or somethng like that
10:58<@Belugas>in other words, vanilla ottd does not have taht feature
10:58<@Belugas>unless things have changed drastically since last time i checked ;)
10:59<Bonez305>Belugas: Ah, more stuff to give me a headache :D. I can barely start a server properly haha
11:01<@Belugas>continuous learning... happens even at game level ;)
11:01<Bonez305>I've been helped twice to setup a server on my linux box, but everytime I attempted it myself and can't seem to get it.
11:02<ToBeFree>Bonez305: you again :D
11:02<ToBeFree>tell me if you need something^^
11:02<Bonez305>ToBeFree: Oh yea :D
11:02<ToBeFree>I mean, the basic procedure is simple or at least it sounds simple:
11:02<Bonez305>Well, I reinstalled everything on the VPS to get a clean start and failed at installing openttd lol
11:02<ToBeFree>1. start the fresh Ubuntu/Debian server,
11:02<Bonez305>well I installed it, just don't remember how to get it to start
11:02<ToBeFree>2. make it secure (disable root logins, move the port whatever), and
11:03<ToBeFree>that's the third step after you installed openttd:
11:03<ToBeFree>openttd -D -f
11:03<ToBeFree>should run
11:03<Bonez305>from anywhere?
11:03<ToBeFree>yes, but you probably want to modify ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
11:03<ToBeFree>or replace it by one you created on your home PC
11:04<ToBeFree>and don't run that command as root please^^
11:04<Bonez305>well I won't have ./openttd/ until i start it once
11:04<ToBeFree>okay, start it as any user first, then shut it down with a SIGTERM (use htop if you like), and modify/replace it^^
11:04<Bonez305>I don't think i have htop :/
11:05<ToBeFree>sudo apt-get install htop
11:05<ToBeFree>I recommend writing it down, but *not* copying it into the command line
11:05<ToBeFree>every time you have to enter it yourself, you learn it, I'd say :-)
11:06*Bonez305 nods
11:06<ToBeFree>if you want to send a SIGTERM using another user than the one you used to start openttd, you have to use root/sudo
11:07<ToBeFree>that's a nice thing: Other users would not be able to kill your processes. I think even MS Windows has that
11:07<Bonez305>ok installed htop
11:07<ToBeFree>openttd server is running?
11:08<Bonez305>openttd command not found?
11:08<ToBeFree>sudo apt-get install openttd^^
11:09<ToBeFree>or you install a .deb:
11:09<ToBeFree>sudo dpkg -i file.deb
11:09<Bonez305>I have installed
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11:09<ToBeFree>using dpkg?
11:09<ToBeFree>you are not trying to run it as root, too?
11:10<Bonez305>yes :/
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11:10<ToBeFree>"whereis openttd"
11:10<Bonez305>in the root folder
11:10<ToBeFree>I assume it is /usr/games/openttd ;-)
11:10<ToBeFree>so you can run:
11:10<Bonez305>oh the game yes.
11:10<ToBeFree>/usr/games/openttd -D -f
11:11<Bonez305>started :D
11:11<ToBeFree>now kill it with htop (SIGTERM), and if you need a valid config to auto-run your server, it is probably the best idea to start a network server from your home computer, then close OpenTTD using the in-game exit button/entry
11:12<ToBeFree>after that, replace the ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg on your server with the config from your PC
11:12*ToBeFree wonders if there will be character encoding problems
11:12<ToBeFree>er, line-break things
11:12<Bonez305>how do I kill the program?
11:13<ToBeFree>with htop open, look for the process (my version has F4 for filtering, but I assume yours has F3 for search again),
11:13<ToBeFree>press the kill key (you'll see that at the bottom, where F3 is also described)
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11:13<ToBeFree>and select SIGTERM from the list. Enter and killed^^
11:14<Bonez305>i forgot all about htop :D
11:15<Bonez305>So will openttd stay on even after i disconnect from SSH?
11:16<ToBeFree>if you run it like I wrote, yes :-)
11:16<ToBeFree>not all programs allow you to do it conveniently like this; if you need something else running while you are away, there are tools like "nohup" and "screen"
11:17<ToBeFree>even better, OpenTTD gives you the command line output as a log file, openttd.log, so you can always check what's happening
11:17<ToBeFree>"tail -f ~/.openttd/openttd.log" is nice to see what's happening in real time
11:17<ToBeFree>I assume you need a way to enter admin commands
11:18<ToBeFree>that's possible and easy, too:
11:18<alandarev>ToBeFree: while you are helping with linux server to Bonez305, may I ask some similar questions regardless my debian server?
11:18<ToBeFree>yes; if they are not openttd related, let's move to /query or #linux
11:18<Bonez305>I actually have a Debian server alandarev :D
11:18<alandarev>There are awesome servers with city challenge, but I struggle to make one even on my local windows client
11:19<ToBeFree>Bonez305: in the openttd.cfg, you can add a line like this in the [network] part:
11:19<alandarev>I want to create own server with city challenge like goal, are gamescripts used on those servers private?
11:19<ToBeFree>rcon_password = Ihavakoolpazzword
11:20<ToBeFree>alandarev: do you mean with "private" that nobody can copy them?
11:20<alandarev>ToBeFree: private that they do not share with community
11:20<Bonez305>No he means servers with custom settings
11:20<alandarev>ToBeFree: there are several city challenge servers with all the fancy automation, like "place your HQ to take a city", proteciton etc.. I want same but can't find
11:21<ToBeFree>alandarev: as long as you are able to run it on Windows, you can (probably) easily move it to a Debian/Ubuntu server
11:21<Bonez305>ToBeFree: Should I get rid of all the other settings under [NETWORK]?
11:21<ToBeFree>until you found a way to run a server like this on Windows, I probably can't help you with OS-specific help
11:21<alandarev>ToBeFree: yah, but I can't run it, that's the trick. I can't seem to find scripts those game servers use
11:21<ToBeFree>Bonez305: nooo
11:22<alandarev>I managed to launch server both on windows and linux, I just can't find how would I make my server as awesome as other without needing to write my own game scripts
11:24<ToBeFree>alandarev: that's not OS specific, just saying; I suggest asking the admin of one of the "awesome" servers how they did it
11:24<Bonez305>This forum has alot of gamescripts and helkp available.
11:24<ToBeFree>there are usable game-scripts on the BaNaNaS server (the one you get the GRFs from)
11:24<ToBeFree>but they might not be as awesome as the ones you have seen
11:28<Bonez305>I'd just like something simple where your gamemode restarts after someone makes it to a certain $
11:29<Bonez305>Could I remove network id from config?
11:29<alandarev>Bonez305: yah I am currently surfing this forum
11:30<alandarev>ToBeFree: "might not be as awesome as the ones you have seen" That is exactly the issue, I tried all available in GRFs :(
11:36<ToBeFree>ask the admins of the awesome servers then ;-)
11:36<ToBeFree>give them your email address to send you their scripts or whatever
11:37<alandarev>ToBeFree: based on your experience, how likely it is to happen?
11:37<ToBeFree>Bonez305: you could restart it after a specific year without any scripts afaik
11:37<Bonez305>how so?
11:37<ToBeFree>alandarev: depends on the admins. If they aren't away or evil, they will give you the scripts
11:37<Bonez305>under restart_game_year? lol
11:38<Bonez305>could I erase what is in the network_id: section?
11:38<ToBeFree>I mean, they run an open-source game, probably even on Linux... Why shouldn't they give you their scripts
11:38<ToBeFree>Bonez305: nooo
11:38<ToBeFree>even if nothing is written there, keep the options
11:39<alandarev>what is NoGo
11:39<ToBeFree>alandarev: what what is nogo
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11:39<alandarev>topic name: [NoGo] Neighbours are important
11:39<alandarev>what NoGo means
11:39<ToBeFree>why should I know? ;-)
11:40<ToBeFree>again, should be no problem to ask the admin
11:40<alandarev>just asking if somebody knows
11:40<alandarev>it's a topic at
11:40<alandarev>in Game Scripts section
11:40<ToBeFree>look at the topic then?
11:40*ToBeFree shrugs
11:41<alandarev>no really, I did, and I know what this script is about, but I found no single explanation what NoGo stands for and what it means, evnethough I met it in different places several times aleady
11:44<alandarev>Can I have several game scripts enabled (more than 1) at same time?
11:44<Bonez305>I'm bout to just say f it :/
11:49<Bonez305>Where do I set map size? sprite_Cache_size_px?
11:50<alandarev>Bonez305: based on its name, soundsl ike a very wrong place to modify
11:51<Bonez305>hrmm, then Where?
11:52<alandarev>where should I place .tar.gz files downloaded directly from bananas?
12:09<peter1139>you should unzip them
12:09<peter1139>well, ungzip
12:09<peter1139>but not untar
12:09<peter1139>and then put it in the approriate data directory
12:17<Ristovski>planetmaker: hmm, could I get voice in the dev channel?
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12:18<V453000>say it here and they will ask you to move the discussion if they deem it necessary
12:19<Ristovski>ah, nvm then
12:19<V453000>lol k
12:20<Ristovski>I just said that since "Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd"
12:21<Ristovski>but yeah, nvm
12:21<V453000>I just dont understand when people need rights they dont intend to do anything with them
12:27<peter1139>i just don't understand why we need a dev channel when we have here
12:27<+michi_cc>Ristovski: The .dev channel is meant as an alternative if this channel gets full with non-dev stuff. Talking here is totally alright.
12:28<peter1139>just kick from here if it gets off topic :p
12:28<+michi_cc>Playing OTTD isn't really off topic though ;)
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12:41<V453000>I dont think talking about various real life trains is too on-topic either ;) :P
12:41<V453000>or about frosch and unicorns in his garage
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13:07<V453000>speaking of the unicorn
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13:29<HellTiger>are there any costs calculators
13:29<HellTiger>lets say what 1000 railways cost or so
13:31<Pinkbeast>There are some UI elements to show the cost of an individual build before building it (eg a big tunnel) but not really.
13:31<Pinkbeast>In particular rail costs can (and do) change in newgrfs...
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13:34<alandarev>how to invite a person to the company? when I try to join my friend, it says he has to invite first
13:34<HellTiger>i wana get oil from oilfield. better make small route for ship and large one for train or let ship drive far?
13:36<alandarev>how to invite to join company?
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13:37<molv_>have all your ships in an area drop at the same transfer
13:43<frosch123>alandarev: there is no such thing as invite in ottd
13:43<frosch123>if you are playing on a modified server, you have to ask the server admin
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25125 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-27 18:45:17 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 9 changes by Devastator, Stabilitronas
14:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 1 changes by GunChleoc
14:45<@DorpsGek>welsh - 31 changes by kazzie
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15:17<@Alberth>hi andy
15:22<V453000>him again!
15:24<@Alberth>and the V person too ! hi :)
15:25<andythenorth>what I need is someone to finish FIRS for me :)
15:26*frosch123 just notices that "V" looks like a unicorn upside-down
15:26*Alberth prints big yellow "FIRS 1.0" stickers
15:28<andythenorth>what I need is some users with actual requirements for documentation
15:28<andythenorth>otherwise I'm guessing :P
15:28<@Alberth>HellTiger: Pressing 'shift' gives a cost estimate of an operation
15:29<HellTiger>but for tracks over complete map it dont work Alberth
15:29<HellTiger>oke i could make a test map ultraflat
15:31<@Alberth>why do you want to know if you never actually buy it in a game?
15:31*Alberth guesses it is 1000* the cost of a single tile
15:32<@Alberth>I stop caring about money the moment I get as much income as I spend buidling new stuff :)
15:37<@Alberth>andy: the only form I can think of is a nice industries picture with cargo arrows
15:39<andythenorth>that one I can't do :P
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16:03<@Alberth>hi hi
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16:15<Wolf01>hi :o
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16:24<Wolf01>I purchased another display, now I could use my computer in stereoscopy :P
16:25<Wolf01>so I can play TT in 3D
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16:28<@Alberth>display the entire world at the main view :)
16:37<andythenorth>I fixed up docs a bit
16:37<andythenorth>needs pictures :P
16:37<andythenorth>"here's some I made earlier" :P
16:39<@Alberth>the latter is much prettier :)
16:39<@Alberth>I cannot go back to the first page in the set overview, it seems
16:40<@Alberth>and lots of the data is too technical, and not aimed at end-users, imho
16:40<andythenorth>prettier because of the images, or the smaller style?
16:41<@Alberth>more readable information
16:41<@Alberth>ie I don't care about internal IDs, or internal cargo names
16:42<andythenorth>I am +1 to that
16:42<@Alberth>and the picture gives a better visualisation of what you talk about then the name of the industry
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16:57<andythenorth>so what are the 'features' of FIRS? :)
16:57<andythenorth>why do you guys play it?
16:57<andythenorth>I need some bullet points for my docs
16:58<@Alberth>more connection opportunities
16:58<frosch123>longer cargo chains
16:59<frosch123>different types of cargo requirements
16:59<frosch123>"mass transport" vs. "spreaded transport"
16:59<@Alberth>cycle and production boost cause large changes in the transport network
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16:59<frosch123>[21:59] <frosch123> different types of cargo requirements <- s/cargo/transport/
17:00<@Alberth>"challenges the transport network design" :)
17:00<frosch123>"no realism crap" :p
17:00<@Alberth>only if you play with nuts :p
17:00*frosch123 is not so sure abouit that
17:01<andythenorth>can I assume that everyone has html for docs?
17:01<V453000>I would even say the opposite but hm :D
17:01<andythenorth>are there people who really want to be able to read the docs in emacs :P
17:01<frosch123>andythenorth: you can safely assume that noone will read any doc, that is not accessible via a simple click somwehre
17:02<andythenorth>FIRS readme must look horrible in game, it's huge
17:02<V453000>I basically replaced readme with a wiki
17:02<frosch123>i guess you should go for some online doc
17:02<V453000>I had 10k character readme too :s
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17:03<@Alberth>restructured text ;)
17:03<ckop64>hey I can't find the autoreplace list item. shouldn't it be on the bottom of the train replacement window?
17:04<andythenorth>.rst parser :P
17:05<frosch123>ottd only has 3 font sizes and 16 colours
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17:05<frosch123>no bold or italic and stuff :p
17:05<frosch123>and no bullet points and indenting
17:05<V453000>readme should have minimal amount of info imo
17:05<frosch123>hmm, though you can do that with monospace and unicode bullet points
17:06<V453000>NUTS readme is actually still quite wtflong
17:07<andythenorth>I'll edit
17:07<andythenorth>"wtf, go play"
17:07<@Alberth>andythenorth: python-docutils-0.10-0.6.20120824svn7502.fc18.noarch
17:07<andythenorth>more deps :P
17:07<@Alberth>is what contains rst2html here
17:08<ckop64>Alberth, I swear it wasn't there 5 minutes ago. :D Whatever, I'm silly. Keep up the good work and happy building for you all! :)
17:08<andythenorth>blearch, docs age badly
17:08<V453000>dogs too
17:08<andythenorth>lots of outdated info
17:08<andythenorth>dogs too
17:09<@Alberth>doesn't matter, nobody reads it anyway :)
17:10<andythenorth>someone will :P
17:10<andythenorth>then they'll complain
17:10<@Alberth>"write a patch" :p
17:10<V453000>then only include general info instead of values
17:10<V453000>guess kind of hard to do in case of FIRS
17:11<@Alberth>general strategy perhaps?
17:11<V453000>pretty much, when you have an item, write how it is specific
17:11<V453000> like that
17:12<V453000>I do add speeds there because they are crucial to curve lengths
17:12<V453000>but other than that the page does not age if I change the train stats a bit
17:12<V453000>which I do rahter often
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17:24<@Terkhen>good night
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18:26<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 28 00:00:53 2013