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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-03-30

---Logopened Sat Mar 30 00:00:56 2013
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04:57<andythenorth>morning
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05:12<andythenorth>1m 28s to build FIRS with nml :(
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05:14<peter1139>write it in nfo
05:15<andythenorth>good idea
05:15<andythenorth>I am considering converting it back :P
05:15<@Alberth>hi andy, peter
05:16<andythenorth>hmm. I could have my python script do loads of nfo magic
05:16<andythenorth>it might take 1m 28s though :P
05:18<alandarev>how do I open debug window?
05:18<alandarev>founbd
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05:26<LordAro>moin
05:30<@Alberth>moin
05:30<LordAro>hai Alberth
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05:36<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
05:36<Wolf01>hello :D
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06:44<andythenorth>hmm
06:44<andythenorth>FIRS html docs are 745KB, should I ship them with the grf?
06:44<andythenorth>the grf is 3.3MB
06:44<andythenorth>who pays bandwidth around here? :o
06:45<V453000>some andythenorth does
06:45<V453000>not sure if he is aware of it though, he has slight debt
06:46<andythenorth>€1 per download
06:47<andythenorth>I owe ottd €1.06m
06:47<andythenorth>herp
06:47<Ammler>745kB compressed? :-o
06:47<andythenorth>maybe not compressed
06:47<andythenorth>let's see
06:47<Wolf01>how do you come to have 745KB of html? what did you put in it?
06:48<Ammler>images, I would guess
06:48<andythenorth>408KB compressed
06:48<andythenorth>but I can compress the images more
06:48<@Alberth>"please transfer €0.10 to unlock the next industry" :)
06:48<Wolf01>lol
06:48<andythenorth>"premium subscriptions"
06:48<andythenorth>€2 / month
06:49<andythenorth>€1 to paypal, the rest to ottd :P
06:49<andythenorth>access to all grfs instantly
06:49<andythenorth>otherwise 30 day delay :P
06:49<Ammler>maybe simply make 2 bundles, no need to add it to the bananas bundle
06:49<andythenorth>new make target? bananas?
06:49<Ammler>hmm, maybe also no need to bundle it at all...
06:49<@Alberth>make bananas sounds good :)
06:50<Wolf01>I hate the pay-to-win model and all the micro-transactions to unlock something, I feel more convenient to purchase a game for 50€ and already have all instead of paying it 30€ and still have to pay to unlock everything
06:50<Ammler>tasty :-)
06:50*andythenorth has a headache with the makefile
06:50<@Alberth>Wolf01: indeed, I would not pay
06:50<andythenorth>it has very little idea about deps :P
06:50<andythenorth>so either makes nothing, or everything
06:50<andythenorth>I guess I broke it
06:50<Ammler>Wolf01: as long as they sell a bundle, I do not really care, some people like to pay less
06:52<andythenorth>'upgrade FIRS makefile' would be a nice project for someone :)
06:52<Ammler>I never got, why someone would pay for additional downloads like more/better weapons or alternative look
06:52<LordAro>apparently, people do
06:53<LordAro>unfortunately for those of us who dislike it
06:53<LordAro>people are stupid
06:53<Ammler>well, that is the advantage you don't need to buy it
06:54<Ammler>IMO, it is most silly to buy seomthing to make a game easier (better weapons)
06:58<LordAro>surprise! people like to cheat if you give them the chance :)
06:59<Wolf01>I did it twice, just to find out that I can live without it since most of the times there are only cosmetical changes, but on DarkSiders2 I was really satisfied (but I had to purchase all the DLCs to find out which armor is more suitable to my play style)
07:03<V453000>cosmetic changes are fun :)
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07:03<Wolf01>yeah, but pnly if they are free
07:03<Wolf01>*only
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07:04<LordAro>did someone mention hats?
07:04<V453000>well they can be hard to get in the game over time, or quickly purchaseable
07:06<V453000>I like how heroes of newerth is doing it, they just let you get "silver coins" where a cosmetic change can cost from 500 to 3000 of them. 3000 new, 500 older ones. You can purchase them with real money or gather silver coins slowly, and even better if you just wait or dont have the silver, it will get cheap sooner or later :)
07:06<andythenorth>new FIRS
07:06<andythenorth>nothing much changed
07:07*andythenorth needs bug reports ahead of...you know...1.0
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07:10<V453000>how to add 10k lines of code within 24 hours
07:10<V453000>I should write a guide
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07:24<andythenorth>quak
07:26<V453000>moo
07:26<andythenorth>oink actually
07:26<andythenorth>check devzone commit :P
07:28<@Alberth>hi
07:31<frosch123>moin :)
07:31<V453000>andythenorth: pigs at orchard? :D
07:31<V453000>like on trees? :D
07:32<@Alberth>pigs are too heavy for that :)
07:35<andythenorth>hmm
07:35<andythenorth>seems to be just a uk thing :P
07:35<andythenorth>pigs are standard here in orchards :P
07:36<V453000>I want my own pig-tree too :(
07:36<V453000>Alberth: your argument is invalid, pigs can flu
07:36<V453000>fly
07:37<@Alberth>:D
07:39<frosch123>at least pigs with a horn
07:40<V453000>LOL
07:45<V453000>p.s. feeding me with retarded ideas might not be the best thing to do as I am in a very April mood >:D
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07:48<V453000>only thing saving the current situation is that I cant seem to fit a tree on a wagon, especially not to fit a unihorned pig on it afterwards
07:48<V453000>:[
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08:01<@Alberth>tree is optional :D
08:02<andythenorth>FIRS 1.0 flies on trees
08:02<andythenorth>with pigs
08:02<@Alberth>\o/
08:05<V453000>Alberth: that helps :P
08:05<V453000>what is it anywya
08:05<V453000>unipigs?
08:05<V453000>unibacon?
08:06<@Alberth>pigcorn?
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08:15<V453000>pigcorn :D
08:17<andythenorth>not like a corndog
08:18<V453000>that isnt an animal :(
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08:47*andythenorth cuts 200KB of FIRS docs
08:50<@Rubidium>because openttd doesn't have a html renderer yet, right?
08:56<andythenorth>that
08:56<andythenorth>and to save you / us bandwidth :P
08:56<andythenorth>all that changed is I cut down the palette in ~55 images
08:56<andythenorth>surprising difference in file size :P
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09:00<alandarev>andythenorth: any idea where I can see cargo ID's for FIRS?
09:01<andythenorth>funny you should ask
09:01<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/set_overview.html
09:01<andythenorth>^ that's new
09:01*andythenorth is pleased it has a purpose
09:01<andythenorth>alandarev: let me know if you can find them :P
09:01<andythenorth>they're in there
09:02<alandarev>andythenorth: yah I am surfing this page for a couple of minutes :D I ggot here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/cargos.html but there are no ID's given
09:02<andythenorth>look in code reference
09:02<alandarev>ah :D sweet
09:02<alandarev>thanks and well done on docs :)
09:02<andythenorth>what are you going to use the IDs for?
09:03<alandarev>andythenorth: have some fun in playing FIRS + CityBuilder GS
09:05<alandarev>I so wan someone making NewGRX which would change profit from cargo delivery not on the distance between stations but distance to nearest source
09:05<alandarev>should probably post it on forum maybe someone is interested in
09:12<alandarev>can I use ctrl when pressing duplicate vehicle to apply Shared Orders logics?
09:12<@Alberth>tias :)
09:14<andythenorth>what are official names of Tropic, Arctic etc?
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>subtropic and subarctic
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09:17<andythenorth>ta
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>alandarev: have you tried it? (or read the hint text)
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09:21<alandarev>Eddi|zuHause: tried what? :)
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09:29<V453000>..
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09:46<alandarev>Where should I post NewGRX suggestion, in Suggestions or Graphics board?
09:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25128 trunk/src/stdafx.h (2013-03-30 13:50:46 UTC)
09:50<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: [Win32] MSVC 2010 comes with stdint.h.
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10:05<V453000>newGRF not newGRX, I already told you :s
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10:30<__ln__>ummmm... what happens if i clone a Windows 7 installation from a 512-b HDD to a 4k HDD?
10:30<__ln__>using dd
10:33<alandarev>(my) New suggestion: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=64921
10:35<TinoDidriksen>__ln__, dunno, but if dd fails there's ntfsclone (which is superior anyway).
10:35<V453000>it isnt newGRX and I doubt newGRF can actually do that
10:35<alandarev>V453000: awh :(
10:36<V453000>the only thing newGRF can define in cargo is cargo multiplier cost, and decay rate I think ... I might be wrong though
10:36<V453000>cost related that is
10:37<alandarev>V453000: i think someone metioned two days ago that new versions allow control of costs calculation
10:38<alandarev>gtg..
10:38<V453000>right
10:45<andythenorth>there is a cb for custom profit calculation
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10:49<frosch123>yes, but quite limited
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11:01<wippler>http://pixel-universe.com/bisnis/ --> Business management browser game :)
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11:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25129 extra/musa/musad.py (2013-03-30 15:41:01 UTC)
11:41<@DorpsGek>[MUSA] -Fix: uploading an update failed at the server side
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12:20<LordAro>what is you lot's thoughts on cmake ?
12:21<LordAro></randomquestion>
12:23<__ln__>it causes as much trouble as it solves
12:24<+michi_cc>Rather useless as long as e.g. a cygwin compiled cmake binary will only produce cygwin makefiles and an MSVC compiled cmake only MSVC project files. Who thought of crap like this?
12:26<andythenorth>wasn't me :P
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14:24<alandarev>suggest me interesting Industry NewGRX's to play please :)
14:31<@Alberth>there are 4: the default industries, opengfx+industries, FIRS, and ECS
14:31<alandarev>Alberth: what is that recent PBI or something?
14:32<@Alberth>oh, that could be one too, sorry pikka
14:32<@Alberth>I never tried that one
14:32<alandarev>Alberth: what it's name? I can't find in bananas
14:33<@Alberth>pikkas basic industries iirc
14:34<alandarev>not in the list :( Also is column Downloads glitched? FIRS was downloaded only 147 times, I hardly believe it comapred to some 20k downloads of Cars Sets
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14:34<@Alberth>FIRS got a new version today
14:35<@Alberth>big download counts usually mean the set has not been touched for a long time
14:35<@Alberth>too many people download everything instead of just what they need
14:36<@Alberth>have a look at the download count of the "staircase" heightmap. I uploaded as a testmap, it is absolutely useless for playing
14:36<@Alberth>I didn't advertise it anywhere :)
14:36<alandarev>Alberth: oh, new version = downloads counter reset?
14:37<@Alberth>alandarev: not sure. Either that, or it starts a new count for each version
14:37<alandarev>Alberth: lol at staircase :D
14:37<@Alberth>ie older versions are still there, for people playing old versions
14:38<@Alberth>so I guess those versions still have a count
14:38<+michi_cc>Each version has its own download count IIRC and the web interface only shows the data for the most recent one.
14:38<alandarev>sweet, thanks for explaining. but I so want some sort of "rating" sorted NewGRF'es
14:38<@Alberth>we all do
14:39<@Alberth>got some time on your hand to build us a nice rating system?
14:39<alandarev>Alberth: downloads count kind of one of those, if they did not reset...
14:39<@Alberth>nah, too many false positives
14:40<alandarev>Alberth: certainly, but still better than nothing ;-)
14:40<+michi_cc>alandarev: Not at all, because apparently it is a mortal sin to not download everything you can see.
14:40<alandarev>michi_cc: okay, then simple 5 star rating could help us
14:41<@Alberth>I'd bet that over 50% of the downloads are never ever used in a game
14:41<+michi_cc>I.e. the download count is quite proportional to the time the file is online.
14:43<alandarev>Experts hard - industries 0.4 193171 times < as an example No description, no readme, no link to a topic. wtf it does??
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25130 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-30 18:45:30 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>galician - 21 changes by Michi
14:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 16 changes by telk5093
14:45<@DorpsGek>welsh - 34 changes by kazzie
14:51<@Alberth>probably from some server for competitive games
14:53<@Terkhen>hello
14:54<@Alberth>hi ter
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14:55<@Alberth>hi Terkhen
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15:01<LordAro>doctor who was fun
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15:56<andythenorth>someone should write a better version of this
15:56<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/set_overview.html
15:56<andythenorth>then FIRS docs are done
15:56<andythenorth>;)
15:57<andythenorth>probably less stuff
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16:01<@Alberth>use .rst file format ?
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16:30<alandarev>andythenorth: I rly want Power Station to make CityBuilder more realistic with FIRS.. Can I achieve it somehow?
16:30<alandarev>andythenorth: FIRS adds more fun, but now my towns no longer need 'electricity' which is sad :(
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16:47<andythenorth>alandarev: code a power station
16:49<alandarev>andythenorth: not a coder :( I can not find Gasoline Cargo ID in http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html
16:49<andythenorth>alandarev: everyone starts coding somewhere ;)
16:50<andythenorth>petrol: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html
16:55<alandarev>andythenorth: A bit of settings tweaking and I can start having some challenge :D http://josh.c-servers.com/web/2013_03_30_20_54_27_OpenTTD_1.3.0_RC3.png
16:56<alandarev>andythenorth: if you could help me I don't mind coding power station... But I really can not dedicated many days into this which would require if doing alone
16:56<andythenorth>there are others who want the power station too
16:56<andythenorth>@seen supercheese
16:56<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: supercheese was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 22 hours, 42 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Supercheese> i.e. you can deliver cargo even if not directly in the catchment, or some such
16:56<andythenorth>@seen flherne
16:56<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: flherne was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <FLHerne> TBH, most patches I've seen/poked just seem to use 200 for the save version...
16:56<andythenorth>herp
16:57<alandarev>andythenorth: see, then you definitely should consider doing it :) and I am even offering to do some work on it
16:57<andythenorth>nah
16:57<andythenorth>not for me :)
16:58<alandarev>oww :(
17:01<alandarev>andythenorth: can you clear few things out for me? 1. Gas Stations, Builders Yard, Hardware Store can consume as much resource as I deliver? 2. Primary Industries close down? Can I prevent it from happening? I don't feel like it is needed in a city builder game?
17:01<andythenorth>1. yes 2. no they don't
17:02<alandarev>oh then it sounds like it perfectly fits into my city builder script, only thing I would love is power station :)
17:05<alandarev>I see there is a i_powerstation.pnfo file in source
17:11<andythenorth>that is probably not much use :)
17:12<andythenorth>you could do this with a simple nml-based newgrf, that just turns on the default power station
17:13<alandarev>going through eGRVT set, how come 2 horses carriage have 10hp? :DDD
17:13<alandarev>and 4 horses have same 10hp but just max speed from 20km to 26km :D
17:15<@Rubidium>the same reason a small airport is only 12 times bigger than a bus stop
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17:21<alandarev>:))
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17:44<andythenorth>alandarev: probably not useful to you now, but the tables here are now sortable :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html
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18:05<alandarev>andythenorth: :) kk, site looks clean and tidy
18:36<frosch123>night
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19:41<LordAro>night all
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19:57<Wolf01>good night
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20:33<XziDesk>hey guys, i disabled vehicle breakdown in openttd.cfg but the settings aren't being applied to the game
20:33<XziDesk>they remain at Reduced
20:39<valhallasw>XziDesk: those are just the standard settings for a new game; you need to set them in the game itself if you're continueing a game
20:40<XziDesk>this is on a dedicated server in windows
20:40<XziDesk>where would i change it on a map that's already running?
20:41<valhallasw>I think it's also possible using the command window (but I'm not sure how); the easiest might be loading the savegame, opening it in a normal game, changing the settings, saving the map again and loading it in the server
20:42<XziDesk>would that mess up the existing companies?
20:43<valhallasw>I don't think so, but I wouldn't dare to guarantee it
20:43<XziDesk>alright, i'll give it a try on an autosave
20:43<valhallasw>see http://wiki.openttd.org/Console#Server_commands on how to do it using rcon
20:44<valhallasw>rcon password "set breakdowns 0"
20:44<valhallasw>according to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=50830
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22:26<Bonez305|2>after installing openttd on a server can i delete the deb file?
22:34<HellTiger>Bonez305|2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_%28file_format%29
22:34<HellTiger>its like a zip file
22:35<HellTiger>you have extracted it while installation
22:36<GauHelldragon>how much iron do i need for each tile of track
22:37<HellTiger>funny, i cant understand this question. but i am newcomer in this game GauHelldragon
22:37<GauHelldragon>i am just kidding :)
22:39<Bonez305|2>whats the best material to transport at early game 1950?
22:39<Bonez305|2>HellTiger: ok
22:39<HellTiger>Bonez305|2: coal
22:40<HellTiger>i suggest you this tutorial Bonez305|2 http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial
22:40<HellTiger>on bottom right you can click on Next
22:41<GauHelldragon>coal is always the best material to transport :d
22:42<HellTiger>GauHelldragon: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=111619&sid=f88d51891c569051e3153687ae511197
22:42<HellTiger>look at the passenger income top right
22:43<GauHelldragon>yup
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 31 00:00:59 2013