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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-04-06

---Logopened Sat Apr 06 00:00:06 2013
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02:09<WOOHOO>" - Cheap, Affordable, Strong Output, Dedicated Servers. Probably Best Booter Online."
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02:41<minsikcho>hi could anyone help me with crash? I'm using Windows 7, and just executing the file (openttd.exe) gives me immediate error
02:42<minsikcho>I haven't experienced this error before a complete format of my device.
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02:43<Supercheese>nevermind then
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02:55<@Terkhen>good morning
02:55<Supercheese>this "jerry66" needs an ipban
02:57<__ln__>more like a nickban
02:59<Supercheese>that too
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03:18<Rubidium_>Supercheese: what would an IP ban accomplish?
03:19<Rubidium_>segment wise I'd need to IP ban to cover the last two IP addresses, which kinda defeats the purpose of IRC
03:40<NGC3982>One could trust the fact that he might not be bright enough to use a different host.
03:40<NGC3982>I guess.
03:46<__ln__>He already did.
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03:55<guru3>Just stumbled on my autopause patch for 0.3.6. Man, how time flies.
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04:11<frosch123>moin :)
04:18<Supercheese>good night
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04:32<NGC3982>__ln__: Oh. :(
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04:45<joris>hi everyone
04:45<insulfrog>hi all
04:45-!-joris is now known as joris2
04:46<joris2>can anyone help me compiling openttd on the raspberry pi?
04:46<joris2>I'm having an error saying i'm missing lzma
04:47<joris2>thelzma command is available though
04:47<@Alberth>it's often called xz
04:47<frosch123>then you likely need the development files of liblzma resp. libxz
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04:48<joris2>yeah, I have xz
04:48<joris2>haven't checkes for an xz-dev though
04:49<frosch123>might also be called libxz-dev
04:49<joris2>hold on, I'm checking
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04:51<joris2>first need to wait for my sysupgrade to be done
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04:55<joris2>not available for the ARM version
04:56<joris2>ok, I need to go, need to figure this out later
04:56<joris2>thanks for the help already
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05:20<@Alberth>moin Wolf01
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07:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25148 /trunk/src/script/api (script_base.cpp script_base.hpp) (2013-04-06 11:59:27 UTC)
07:59<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5517]: [Script] XXBase::Chance function did not work for large values (>65535)
08:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25149 /trunk/src (5 files) (2013-04-06 12:10:16 UTC)
08:10<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: replace 'magic' 'has rating' bitcheck by descriptive function
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08:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25150 /trunk (7 files in 4 dirs) (2013-04-06 12:36:33 UTC)
08:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5514]: [Script] The was no way to differentiate between a cargo-station combination with or without rating, so introduce [AI|GS]Station::HasRating and let GetRating return -1 when there is no rating
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09:15<frosch123>he noticed that he entered a room with 124 people and says "hello?" into the silence
09:15<frosch123>then he blushed and ran away
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09:49<andythenorth_>What did I miss?
09:50<V453000>some beer researching, unicorns falling from the sky, pretty much nothing important
09:51<frosch123>i played a firs game
09:51<frosch123>well, started
09:52<frosch123>somehow ports are quite important
09:52<andythenorth_>In basic yes
09:52<frosch123>though once you use them, everything goes gung ho
09:52<frosch123>basic tropic
09:52<andythenorth_>They're a massive shotcut for game design :p
09:53<frosch123>basically i took a bauxite mining with production > 100
09:53<frosch123>moves stuff to port
09:53<frosch123>which goes gung ho with metal
09:54<frosch123>then metal to workshop
09:54<frosch123>now i have masses of all three supplies with like 3 lines :o
09:55<andythenorth_>They make it easy to provide complete chains with limted industry types :p
09:55<andythenorth_>Also easy for players :)
09:55<frosch123>well, 128x256 map, so full is no option :p
09:55<frosch123>i am just wondering that it is quite hard to get double production :p
09:56<frosch123>either it's normal or gung ho :p
09:59<andythenorth_>Interesting :p
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11:50*Zuu likes the new ./ musa command which can get content type, uniqueid and md5sum from a .tar file. Example:
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11:58<HellTiger>since i have set difficult to hard, i get ai error message, "no suitable ai found to load" can i ignore this or disable this
11:58<HellTiger>or is my game fucked?
11:58<Zuu>You can go to difficulty settings and set AIs to 0
11:58<Zuu>Or you can go to content dowload and dowload some AIs.
12:00<HellTiger>should i?
12:00<HellTiger>i am still pretty new to the game
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12:01<Zuu>AIs could learn you new things
12:01<Zuu>You can set their construction speed to slow.
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12:14<andythenorth>frosch123: using any trucks in your game? o_O
12:21<frosch123>i will likely use trams for the farms and ranches
12:21<frosch123>but i did not play so long
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12:23<AcidWeb>I have small question about source code. Maybe somebody can help me.
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12:24<frosch123>i would say, just ask him
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12:24<frosch123>or her
12:24<frosch123>i guess "somebody" is both genders
12:25<AcidWeb>Im looking for a place to push one NetworkClientSendChat(NETWORK_ACTION_CHAT_CLIENT, DESTTYPE_CLIENT, CLIENT_ID_SERVER to server after client is connected and already in-game. Where I can find a spot to safely add this?
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12:48<Rubidium>why would you want to send a chat message to the server? (assuming you are the server)
12:49<V453000>nothing beats a friendly chat with bots
12:51<AcidWeb>Rubidium: Server commands.
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12:54<monneke>How must i load the wagons please ???
12:55<monneke>This is a new game for me. How must i load the wagons please ???
12:56<monneke>Hello ???
12:58<Rubidium>monneke: wagons will load automatically
12:58<Rubidium>when they are at a station that provides the cargo the wagon takes
12:58<Rubidium>which requires the station to be close enough to the source of the cargo (industry / houses)
12:59<monneke>No it wont work ??? Don't load automaticly ???
13:00<monneke>Station is right next to industry ?
13:00<Rubidium>then show us the savegame so we can look at it
13:00<NGC3982>Totally related.
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13:01<monneke>Message is allways to few orders in schedule ???
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13:02<monneke>How must i show it ???
13:02<V453000>hint: the more ? you type does not mean you get better answer
13:03<Rubidium>look at the bottom of for the section about orders
13:04<monneke>I will look at it later i have a visitor sorry thanks anyway...
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13:07<V453000>you have nerves of platinum Rubidium :D
13:07<Wolf01>I remember the first time with TT Classic, I tried to run 2 trains on a single rail... then I learned from the AI how to build the waiting tracks
13:10<Rubidium>V453000: good luck they aren't nerves of rubidium on a rainy day ;)
13:10<AcidWeb>So i guess nobody currently alive here know code well enought to answer my question?
13:10<Rubidium>though you might want to look up that reaction if you're not familiar with it
13:11<Rubidium>nobody knows enough of the thing you want to accomplish exactly
13:11<Rubidium>because depending on that the location will change
13:12<Rubidium>... however... I now have an appointment with the doctor
13:13<frosch123>V453000: is it possible to transport rubidium on wetrails?
13:13<AcidWeb>I need send private chat message to server after successful connection to server.
13:14<V453000>frosch123: you can try
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13:14<@Alberth>Wolf01: you as well? I also learned signals from the AI :)
13:15<AcidWeb>I can not describe it easier ;p
13:15<Wolf01>I crashed some trains forcing them out of the depots before noticing those weird little shiny basterds
13:16<@Alberth>I wondered for quite some time why the second train would not come out the depot :)
13:19<andythenorth>so what next?
13:19<andythenorth>another MP GS game? o_O
13:20<andythenorth>or design a new GS?
13:24<V453000>best answer
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25151 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-06 17:45:17 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>faroese - 528 changes by FastNinja
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 3 changes by Terkhen
13:46<AcidWeb>OK. I think i found right place
13:46<AcidWeb>I added that to NetworkRecvStatus ClientNetworkGameSocketHandler::SendMapOk()
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13:56<AcidWeb>Anyway - Thank you and good night.
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14:01<Rubidium>pff... AcidWeb couln't wait until I returned from the doctor?
14:10<Snail>I'm wondering... what is the "time since last maintenance" for a newly-bought vehicle?
14:10<Snail>is it always = 0?
14:11<Rubidium>it ought to be
14:11<Rubidium>there's no second hand stuff
14:11<Wolf01>mmmh, it might be an interesting feature
14:12<Snail>I thought so too, but I did some tests, and it doesn't look like that...
14:13<Snail>for instance, I set up 2 recoloring schemes, A to be used if the engine's last maintenance is <20, and B to be used otherwise
14:14<Snail>wait I'll do some more tests on my side
14:17<frosch123>hmm, do we already have a regex engine in ottd? :s
14:17<Snail>ok looks like rubidium is correct, I just double-checked
14:19<Snail>another thing :) when can I recolor a vehicle (i.e. change the recoloring callback)? is it just inside of a depot (like when I change a vehicle's length) or can I do it at any time?
14:19<Rubidium>frosch123: only if the regex is ^$ ;)
14:20<@Alberth>and all string literals
14:20<frosch123>yeah, if they start with ^ and end with $ :)
14:21<frosch123>strchrnul is a gnu thingie, right?
14:22<frosch123>"strchrnul() first appeared in glibc in version 2.1.1." <- ah, yeah
14:23<frosch123>hmm, there is gnu in my unicorn lasagna
14:29<frosch123>looks correct
14:29<Rubidium> <- to save the maintenance stress ;)
14:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25152 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2013-04-06 18:30:45 UTC)
14:30<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish [FS#5520]: remove stray reservation from savegames affected by FS#5510 et al. upon loading
14:31<@Alberth>use HasCargoRating <-- use #HasCargoRating
14:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25153 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-06 18:36:41 UTC)
14:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5522] (r24487): [Win32] Don't statically link to SHGetFolderPath as it may not exist.
14:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25154 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.cpp (2013-04-06 18:36:45 UTC)
14:36<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [Win32] Don't store invalid paths in the search path list.
14:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25155 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.cpp (2013-04-06 18:36:49 UTC)
14:37<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: [Win32] Improve SHGetFolderPath emulation.
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14:40<andythenorth>GS ideas
14:40<andythenorth>all based on ~7 years play length
14:40<andythenorth>- connect a certain amount of track?
14:40<andythenorth>- have a certain average vehicle speed?
14:40<andythenorth>- transport all available cargos?
14:41<andythenorth>- ensure every town has food shop (depends on FIRS)
14:42<frosch123>connect a certain amount of track?
14:43<andythenorth>can GS check that?
14:43<frosch123>drag across 2kx2k map and win? or what?
14:43<andythenorth>railroad tycoon did it by having high build costs
14:43<frosch123>sorry, none of your ideas make sense :p
14:43*andythenorth is offended mortally
14:44<frosch123>vehicle speeds are vastly different between sets
14:44<frosch123>you can try for something like "ensure all industries of type X have 80% transported"
14:45<frosch123>but firs would break that :p
14:45<frosch123>wrt. 4, i don't like towns :p
14:45<andythenorth>build 3 secondary industries, and transport n tonnes from them? o_O
14:46<V453000>have X good transported monthly
14:46<frosch123>andythenorth: sounds like sv
14:46<frosch123>V453000: short intervals do not work
14:46<frosch123>long trains result in quite varying transportation
14:47<frosch123>unless you set the goal so high that you need 200 trains :)
14:47<frosch123>then it might work
14:47<andythenorth>why don't we play SV more?
14:47<andythenorth>we have been playing NCG mostly
14:47<frosch123>because i prepare most games :p
14:47<V453000>well then yearly
14:48<frosch123>i felt sv was more for singleplayer
14:48<frosch123>but we can try again :)
14:48<andythenorth>I like it for MP
14:48<V453000>what does sv exactly do?
14:49<frosch123>required you to build n industries in town x, produce a amount with each and b amount in total in one quarter
14:49<frosch123>basically it dooms a single town into a track mess
14:50<frosch123>since the script tries to pick a town with not too many tiles associated
14:50<frosch123> <- actually, the screenshots say everythnig
14:50<andythenorth>frosch123: make it several towns?
14:51<frosch123>the only thing you should not do though is setting "challenged cargo type" to something other than "secondary"
14:51<frosch123>andythenorth: nope
14:52<frosch123>multiple towns do not add anything
14:52<frosch123>you can just fund multiple companies if you want
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14:54<V453000>I cant really think of any goal which could be interesting
14:54<frosch123>build one of each engine type?
14:55<frosch123>and make them have twice the profit as their running cost
14:55<V453000>have 1000 trains turning profit?
14:55<V453000>or 3000 whatever
14:55<frosch123>you do not neet a script for such goal
14:55<andythenorth>still NCG is not boring yet
14:55<frosch123>andythenorth: how about the build one of everything goal?
14:55<andythenorth>but it's a pretty linear challenge
14:56<andythenorth>frosch123: pretty interesting
14:56<frosch123>would totally spoil cloning and copy&paste and friends :p
14:56<andythenorth>one of *every* vehicle?
14:56<frosch123>every available model
14:56<andythenorth>and *all* have to be profitable? :O
14:56<V453000>hf with nuts :D
14:56<andythenorth>have fun with HEQS :)
14:56<frosch123>V453000: can the logic train make profit?
14:57<andythenorth>frosch123: I think it's good
14:57<andythenorth>not sure it can be done in 7 years
14:57<V453000>nope, it cant haul cargo
14:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25156 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-04-06 18:57:18 UTC)
14:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5495, FS#5497]: if a vehicle had some cargo, and it would try to unload without actually unloading, the vehicle would just not load any cargo at the station (fonsinchen)
14:57<andythenorth>hmm, how would transfer credits apply?
14:57<V453000>but I believe if you autoreplace it to some other train, it will keep the profit
14:57<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, they would apply
14:57<V453000>autoreplace logic train yearly and it will make money? :D
14:58<frosch123>but yes, i guess the 100% needs to be configurable
14:58<frosch123>also you should not play it in 2500 with engines never expire enabled :p
14:59<V453000>boring that wa
14:59<frosch123>oh, we could make it a bananas requirement
14:59<V453000>not to mention that nuts doesnt expire regardless of your settings
14:59<frosch123>every set author has to upload a savegame which proofs that every engine has a use
15:01<V453000>I think I know exactly how many sets will remain
15:01<frosch123>andythenorth: you can also do nocargoal for all cargos, and the least transported cargo decides the medal :p
15:02<V453000>that is actually awesome idea frosch123
15:02<andythenorth>could just do competitive NCG
15:02<andythenorth>between n teams
15:02<frosch123>we never did nocargoal for mail btw
15:02<andythenorth>the GS just acts as referee
15:02<frosch123>ottd is no competive game
15:02<frosch123>you need silly area claiming and such
15:03<frosch123>it could only work if you head for different cargos
15:03<frosch123>but then it is most likely imbalanced :p
15:03<frosch123>i got a bug report about sv, that it is imbalanced :s
15:03<andythenorth>it's too easy to grief competitive :P
15:04<V453000>what does your 100% station rating do when 2 people service a thing? the second one gets nothing?
15:04<V453000>game implodes?
15:04<frosch123>i think they both get half
15:04<frosch123>third get nothing anyway iirc
15:05<andythenorth>I like the 'use all vehicles' idea
15:05<andythenorth>would be a curve ball if a new vehicle is introduced 1 month before game end :P
15:05<frosch123>andythenorth: i don't think it has any replayablity value
15:05<frosch123>one game per se
15:05<andythenorth>play it until you've one
15:06<andythenorth>one / won /s
15:06<V453000>you would have to start in 2100 tbh
15:06<frosch123>andythenorth: start in 1492, instant win :p
15:06<andythenorth>easy pickings
15:07<frosch123>we should try a ncg with mail
15:07<V453000>mail should be fun
15:07<andythenorth>can GS detect cargo origin - final delivery point? I guess not?
15:07<frosch123>if that works, the all-cargo thingie might work
15:07<V453000>or even pax, doesnt matter, just multiply by 10
15:07<frosch123>andythenorth: sv does something like that
15:07<V453000>pax has a bigger number = more fun!
15:08<andythenorth>I am thinking about coast-to-coast challenges (cross a continent with continuous service)
15:08<V453000>hm yeah local traffic breaks that if you dont check final delivery
15:08<frosch123> <- classify cargo into primary, secondary, and indeterminable
15:08<frosch123>V453000: we had pax, pretty boring, it's as if you play with only 2 challenged cargos
15:09<V453000>.nut sounds totally coincidental
15:09<frosch123>but i have no experience with mail transport
15:09<frosch123>no idea at all about the transport amounts
15:09<V453000>mail is the same as pax ...
15:09<V453000>point is, you have to be required to take it to another town
15:09<andythenorth>the other idea I have is, instead of having time based, just keep playing until you lose. The GS makes the (annual) cargo goals progressively harder.
15:09<V453000>mail = 1/10 of pax more or less
15:09<andythenorth>tetris :P
15:09<V453000>haha andy :D
15:09<V453000>not a bad idea
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15:10<@Alberth>isn't that somewhat like the city nutsing scripts?
15:10<andythenorth>not so good when you want to go to bed at a fixed time :P
15:10<andythenorth>probably similar
15:10<frosch123>i think the limited time is the only thing which makes our sunday evening games work :p
15:10<andythenorth>I find city nursing a boring concept
15:11<@Alberth>andythenorth: openttd does have a save option, you know ;)
15:11<V453000>time limitation isnt openttd compatible tbh
15:11<V453000>openttd isnt about having 200 apm
15:11<andythenorth>'provide commuter service to every city'
15:11<frosch123>V453000: that's exactly what sv and ncg try to change
15:11<frosch123>that's the only reason why they are fun: they turn ottd into a different game
15:11<V453000>transport stuff in -time-limit- is always about speed
15:11<@Alberth>V453000: apm?
15:12<V453000>Alberth: actions per minute
15:12<V453000>clicks and stuff
15:12<@Alberth>ah, indeed I agree fully with you :)
15:12<andythenorth>V453000: I am testing a FIRS savegame bug report - lots of wetrails in use :P
15:12<andythenorth>interesting ;)
15:13<@Alberth>all cargo gets wet? :)
15:13<V453000>andythenorth: it is Sylf ... :)
15:13<V453000>besides, everybody seems to be using wetrail right now
15:13<V453000>(Sylf is one of openttdcoop members)
15:14<frosch123>you mean everyone on coop and related channels?
15:14<frosch123>or did you see it on a goal server? :p
15:14<V453000>well all servers which use nuts, and coop ofc
15:14<V453000>most czech servers use nuts
15:15<V453000>and our stable server is quite casual too
15:20<andythenorth>can't figure out if there's a FIRS bug :P
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15:27<andythenorth>code says no
15:27<andythenorth>but player says yes
15:31*andythenorth ponders a truck set
15:31<ToBeFree>what is "wetrail" even
15:32<V453000>rails which are slightly wet see nuts train set
15:32<ToBeFree>sounds strange
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16:14<Wolf01>gah, I think I'll spend this evening too on 9gag and related
16:18*NGC3982 giggles.
16:24<frosch123> <- makes sense?
16:26<V453000>why not I guess
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16:54<andythenorth>less grey
16:55<Wolf01>now replace that blue gradient with a nice screenshot
16:56<andythenorth>tried it :(
16:56<andythenorth>looks lame :P
16:56<andythenorth>problem is, I have to use opengfx
16:57<andythenorth>which I don't like
16:57<andythenorth>silly old copyright :P
16:57<andythenorth>"don't like" is a bit harsh
16:59<V453000>what do you mean by that? where do you have to use it?
17:00<V453000>you mean you cannot post screenshots of ttd graphics? you can afaik
17:01<V453000>that would be seriously stupid if you couldnt even screenshot things
17:01<V453000>not to mention that there are screenshots with that everywhere
17:01<andythenorth>I can't ship GPL docs using TTD original graphics
17:02<V453000>in screenshots?
17:03<andythenorth>I reckon
17:03<frosch123>i think a single industry on the right of the title is enough
17:04<frosch123>it does not need to be a full featured screenshot
17:04<V453000>why couldnt you ship GPL docs when you created the screenshots? you couldnt screenshot anything in that case
17:04<frosch123>just put the cement plant there
17:04<andythenorth>frosch123: I am about to commit something like that
17:07<frosch123>readd the "Industry Replacement set"?
17:07<frosch123>slightly smaller font
17:08<andythenorth>something like that ^ ?
17:08<frosch123>"FIRS industry replacement set"
17:08<frosch123>i like the old subtitle "New Industries and Cargos for OpenTTD" better
17:08<frosch123>"FIRS" alone is too short
17:08<frosch123>"Industry Replacement Set" just needs a slightly smaller font, so the image still fits
17:08<V453000>thats nice
17:09<frosch123>and i would use the cement plant instead of alu plant :)
17:14<andythenorth>I was going to randomise them
17:14<andythenorth>some javascript thing
17:14<frosch123>that's also nice :)
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17:14<frosch123>just do not use the "no image" ones :p
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17:21<V453000>andythenorth: can the beautiful pixels be licked?
17:21<andythenorth>not any more
17:22<andythenorth>due to EU regulations
17:22<andythenorth>you can try
17:22<andythenorth>I just don't provide any warranty
17:24<andythenorth>can't decide if the grid should be kept or not
17:25<frosch123>i guess if you want to randomise it, it's easier to keep :p
17:29<andythenorth>bed time
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18:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r25157 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp table/misc_settings.ini) (2013-04-06 22:06:44 UTC)
18:06<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Determine the default font height for vector fonts according to the minimum readable height that the font provides.
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18:14<frosch123> <- this is actually hillarious
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18:15<frosch123>i wonder whether unicode is based on those tables
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 07 00:00:08 2013