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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-04-07

---Logopened Sun Apr 07 00:00:08 2013
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03:11<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:36<@Alberth>moin
03:38<V453000>elo
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03:57<Flygon>I feel I have learned a curse with CargoDist
03:57<Flygon>Lack of forward compatibilty with certain saves D:
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04:14<Supercheese>good night
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04:38<@Alberth>I'd say you've come to appreciate the compability provided by standard openttd :)
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04:43<V453000>:)
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04:55<Wolf01>hello :D
05:07<@Alberth>hi
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06:15<frosch123>"/* There is always one platform that doesn't support basic commands... */" <- yay, ottd comments :)
06:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25158 extra/musa/type.py (2013-04-07 10:16:37 UTC)
06:16<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Fix (25145): Remove useless code
06:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25159 extra/musa/scriptid.py (2013-04-07 10:18:33 UTC)
06:18<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Fix (25145): Was to restrictive when detecting short name of script
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06:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25160 extra/musa/misc.py (2013-04-07 10:29:49 UTC)
06:29<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Fix: Undefined variable in validation of dependencies using short name
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07:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25161 extra/musa/musa.py (2013-04-07 11:09:22 UTC)
07:09<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Fix: Remove unnecessary check
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07:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25162 /extra/musa (4 files) (2013-04-07 11:20:23 UTC)
07:20<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Feature: New command (depgen.py) for extracting content type, uniqueid and md5sum from content tar files and print a dependency string for using in your musa .ini files
08:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25163 /extra/musa (14 files) (2013-04-07 12:04:18 UTC)
08:04<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Fix: Set eol-style properties of all musa files
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11:26<V453000>helloooo ... is it somehow possible to contol the visual effect based on the position in consist of the vehicle? I cant seem to be able to put a switch instead of the VISUAL_EFFECT_DEFAULT :s visual_effect_and_powered: visual_effect_and_powered(VISUAL_EFFECT_DEFAULT, 0, DISABLE_WAGON_POWER);
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11:35<frosch123>it is possible
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12:05<V453000>frosch123: any clues how? :s
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12:27<Snail>in m4nfo that'd be easy
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12:37<Rubidium>in C it'd be even easier
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25164 /trunk/src/lang (serbian.txt unfinished/faroese.txt) (2013-04-07 17:45:14 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>faroese - 276 changes by FastNinja
13:45<@DorpsGek>serbian - 28 changes by ivan_mile
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14:04<Snail>question... how is nfo var 00 (= date) handled before 1920? does it have negative values?
14:06<Rubidium>it's just 0
14:06<Rubidium>likewise the max is capped as well (probably at 2090)
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14:07<Rubidium>you're better off using 23 or 24
14:07<Snail>I see
14:08<Snail>how about the date of the last maintenance if that occurs before 1920?
14:08<Rubidium>likewise
14:08<Rubidium>unless you use the "long date"
14:08<Rubidium>then it's the date since 1-1-1 (or so)
14:09<Snail>hmmm... this sounds useful
14:09<Snail>any particular steps I need to do to use the "long date" in nfo?
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14:12<Rubidium>probably not much, it's roughly the same as the short dates with another epoch and larger range (dword instead of word)
14:13<Rubidium>the only caveat is that only openttd supports long dates in stable releases
14:13<Rubidium>but doesn't m4nfo just do long dates right?
14:14<Snail>m4nfo seems to do dates starting from 1920
14:14<Snail>but I'm not 100% sure
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14:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r25165 extra/musa/type.py (2013-04-07 18:34:50 UTC)
14:34<@DorpsGek>[musa] -Fix(25145): Server want to validate before the tar has been uploaded
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15:30<Snail>would introducing maximum ranges for locomotives (a bit like for planes) be possible at all?
15:30<Snail>so for example, in the early years, a small tank locomotive would be able to only do shorter trips between two stations than a large tender loco
15:39<andythenorth>think you can fake that in newgrf
15:39<andythenorth>probably, using a nasty thing on cb 36
15:40<@planetmaker>Not sure. You can't access the order distance there. Nor how long you travelled since the last station
15:40<@planetmaker>And the distance on rails can be MUCH longer than the station distance as determined by the distance as the bird flies
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15:41<andythenorth>just give a range in days travel?
15:41<andythenorth>reset on visiting a depot
15:42<@planetmaker>yes. visiting a depot. Time since service is available
15:42<@planetmaker>But not stations
15:45<andythenorth>frosch123: V453000 now with random image http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html
15:45<V453000>ayyy
15:46<V453000>does the image change over time?
15:46<V453000>would be nice if it did like every 4 seconds
15:46<Snail>planetmaker: you mean time since service or time of last service?
15:47<Snail>I think it's the latter (i.e. it gives you the absolute date of the last service)
15:51<@planetmaker>both can be obtained
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15:55<frosch123>iirc the date of last service is only a short date
15:55<frosch123>so time since service fails outside 1920-2050
15:56<frosch123>or whatever the upper limit might e
15:56<Snail>frosch123: so there is no "long date" corresponding var to the date of last service?
15:57<frosch123>check the wiki if you want to know for sure :)
15:57<andythenorth>V453000: I could carousel it, but some people find them *very* annoying :)
15:57<frosch123>random image on load is fine
15:58<frosch123>it's not nuts after all
15:58<frosch123>and visitors might not immediately notice that it is different every time they visit
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16:00<frosch123>Snail: oh, apparently someone added it to ottd 1.2
16:00<frosch123>i guess cets needed it then or so :p
16:00<Snail>really?
16:00<Snail>hehe, I'd need it too. Where did you see that?
16:01<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles <- in the specs? where else?
16:01<frosch123>i only talk nfo
16:03<Snail>oh, var 4B
16:03<frosch123>hmm, or should i say, i talk grf?
16:04<frosch123>i guess there is no big difference
16:04<Snail>I was searching "maintenance", not "service", this is why I couldn't find it :)
16:04<Supercheese>NML is grf-speak
16:07<Snail>anyway for my initial idea (range for locos) the pathfinder should ideally be queried when the player inputs the orders, and should prevent orders for which the traveled distance is > X tiles
16:07<Snail>would this be possible?
16:09<@Terkhen>good night
16:13<frosch123>Snail: noone knows where a train is really going to
16:13<Snail>not even the pathfinder?
16:14<frosch123>take a look at self regulating networks on coop, for an extreme case
16:14<frosch123>there is not a single target for a train
16:14<@planetmaker>the orders can be changed anytime
16:14<frosch123>it decides again on every junction
16:14<@planetmaker>thus you don't know where it goes after it left a station
16:14<Snail>ah I see
16:14<frosch123>trains do not even need orders
16:15<Snail>and there is no such variable that tells you the tiles traveled since the last station, right?
16:16<frosch123>unlikely, there was never a use in that
16:16<frosch123>you might get the cargo age, but that is kept when transfering cargo
16:17<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> i guess cets needed it then or so :p <-- i don't think i requested that one, it was "just there", i think
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>nml uses this variable since Oct 2011, so this is loooong before
16:21<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, might be that I wanted it... :-)
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16:24<V453000>andythenorth: fair enough :)
16:28<Snail>does last maintenance also apply to wagons?
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16:35<frosch123>just check the front vehicle?
16:38<Snail>right, that's what I guess I'll have to do
16:41<@planetmaker>it can't even ever make a difference ;-)
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>service date is only valid for the front vehicle
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>(i.e. always check the related object)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>in CETS i add a random time (up to 3 years) to the service date, to change liveries over time. but this "feature" is mostly untested
16:45<Snail>Eddi: so to go from "old" livery schemes to "new" ones?
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, repainting after depot visit
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16:47<Snail>I was thinking about doing something similar too... I'm a bit undecided
16:47<Snail>yours is a good way to reach realism (i.e. old liveries disappear after a certain time)
16:47<Snail>but if we keep old vehicles in their old liveries, we have more in-game variety :p
16:48<Snail>so I still don't know which way to go for my set
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>the idea was to provide a parameter "change immediately"/"change after servicing"/"keep old livery forever"
16:48<@planetmaker>:-)
16:49<Snail>nice :)
16:50<Snail>"change immediately" sounds a bit unrealistic doesn't it? :p
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
16:50<Snail>like having workers hanging out of a moving loco and repainting it as it travels :D
16:51-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1B44D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>but you need something for people that don't do servicing
16:51<Snail>heh, I see
16:52<@planetmaker>quite common for people who play w/o breakdowns, tbh
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>the default should be "change after servicing"
16:53<@planetmaker>^^
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>but if anyone wants to test the feature, the ET 87 might be a good candidate, just buy a bunch of those in 1920-ish and let them drive around for 30-50 years on fast foward, see when they change colours
16:54<Snail>I see... the thing of using a parameter is not bad idea
16:54<Snail>so you put the "new" livery if the last servicing date is after a certain (absolute) date + a random number
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like this
16:55-!-Superuser [~superuser@host86-157-75-255.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:57<__ln__>http://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
16:58<Superuser>__ln__: /r/linux much
16:58<Superuser>?
16:58<__ln__>i don't know what you're talking aboot
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Snail: this is the relevant code bit (without parameter, but should be easy to extend) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2217/
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>so this vehicle has 4 liveries, one before 1924, one from 1924 to 1929, one from 1929 to 1940, and one from 1940 onwards
17:02<Snail>NML-ese :p
17:02<Snail>but I get the idea
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>apparently there was (or still is) no nml-ese name for var 0xFA :)
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>which are supposedly the random bits
17:02<Snail>:)
17:03<Superuser>__ln__: /r/linux
17:03<Superuser>it was posted there just now, hehe
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>"<!-- Oh noes, you found it! -->"
17:09<Superuser>curl -L http://bit.ly/10hA8iC | bash
17:10<Superuser>would highly recommend y'all paste this into your term
17:11<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: I'd guess NML has a name for var 5F though, which is the documented way for random bits.
17:11<Superuser>for anyone too pussy to do it : https://github.com/keroserene/rickrollrc/ it's the terminal rickroll, plays video and sound as well
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: i'm not entirely sure why i chose this
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>Superuser: why does that need so much code?
17:14<Superuser>heh, it's a shell script
17:14<Superuser>what do you expect
17:15<+michi_cc>Hmm, is that var somewhere accessed through var 61 maybe? 5F was initially not possible this way and only added later.
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>really interesting way of checking whether a file exists :p
17:16<Superuser>curl -L http://bit.ly/10hA8iC | bash" >> ~/.bashrc //type this into the terminal of the person you hate
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: as far as i can see, it accesses the parent vehicle only, no var61 magic
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that was intended but never used, so it might have factored into this
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>"switch = Switch" which idiot wrote this code? :p
17:19<frosch123>night
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause>i don't find var 5F in the wiki
17:22<+michi_cc>It's a generic var: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2#Variable
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>and it's a particularly verbose description :/
17:23<+michi_cc>NML should simply be random_bits
17:24<+michi_cc>It all doesn't really matter though, as at least for trains in OTTD, var FA will do it as well.
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'll just leave it
17:30-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>hm, and somehow Xorg is hogging the CPU while openttd is running in fast forward, leaving almost nothing for openttd :/
17:35<andythenorth>bye
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17:35<Eddi|zuHause>almost like there's no 2D acceleration
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17:47<Wolf01>'night
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18:18<Eddi|zuHause>https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/480740_511762112204103_1233142241_n.jpg
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18:36<Snail>Eddi: that pic reminds me of this --> http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/022/e/3/poyo__by_chiichanny-d4n9fqr.png
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>never seen that before
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18:45<Snail>new japanese anime :p
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 08 00:00:10 2013