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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-04-21

---Logopened Sun Apr 21 00:00:30 2013
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03:12<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/finnishrailways1980longboat.png I should look into a better method of sorting out capacity problems...
03:13<Flygon>On the upside, pun :B
03:14<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/mayhem.png :P
03:14<V453000>longer!
03:14<V453000>well not quite in that screenshot
03:14<V453000>but can be!
03:15<V453000>:>
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03:15<Flygon>...it looks like a giant duck doing North-West
03:15<Flygon>...
03:15<Flygon>Are those. Boat. Trains?
03:15<V453000>yes.
03:15<Flygon>That, is, AWESOME
03:16<V453000>in nuts :)
03:16<Flygon>TODO: Play a NUTS game @_@
03:16<V453000>:D
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03:17<V453000>dont forget to update as it is in 0.4.8 or later
03:17<V453000>or newer I should say I guess .. you get teh point :)
03:17<Flygon>Either way, I'd like to get my current game done
03:18<Flygon>Which may take nuts
03:18<Flygon>Basically, build a European network until I run out of Vehicles :B
03:18<Flygon>I'm dreading britian...
03:18<Flygon>I have a half-built network there that I got bored with, so I went to Finland
03:18<Flygon>And now I have Finns saying that my network is awesome
03:18<Flygon>...I talk to some really bored Finns
03:19<Flygon>But not bored enough to drink @_@
03:19<V453000>I cant say I had 5000 trains yet
03:19<Flygon>Me neither
03:19<Flygon>Just...
03:19<Flygon>312 atm
03:19<Flygon>Over 2200 Trams/Trucks, though
03:19<V453000>you can safely assume you cannot run out of vehicles then :D
03:19<V453000>trucks are boring, 5000 on 256x256 is easy :s
03:20<Flygon>This is a 2048*2048 map
03:20<V453000>mygod
03:20<Flygon>Only reason I have trucks, is because I actually ran out of room to build train lines
03:20<Flygon>And I had passenger trains that need full through speed... and UKRS2 freight is slow
03:20<V453000>you ran out of room on 2k x 2k? :D achievement
03:20<Flygon>I ran out of room in Finland, and parts of Sweden
03:21<V453000>:D oh a "real map" :D
03:21<Flygon>If this was Rusisa, I would build more rail lines than tentacles in... you get my point
03:22<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/finnishrailways1980network.png I really need to rework some of these lines with better train services...
03:23<Flygon>I doubt I'll ever cover the whole of Europe with a rail network
03:23<Flygon>That'd need a 16 player MP game and a lot of interested people :p
03:26<Flygon>And I've been putting off other games D:
03:27<@Alberth>WET rails doesn't look very good with those bridges
03:27<@Rubidium>aren't wet rails just a poor excuse for having underperforming ships (loading capacity/station tile ratio)?
03:28<@Alberth>perhaps it's an effort to get non-colliding ships :)
03:28<Flygon>V453000: Helsinki is absolutely screwed, either way. It's become 1970s Melbourne. Tram congestion. D:
03:29<V453000>newbridges work best I think
03:29<V453000>capacity or performance isnt really a thing, non/colliding and/or actually fun to build ships are more of a concern :)
03:32<Flygon>It actually looks like one of my ships is jousting a giant duck...
03:34<NGC3982>Morning.
03:35<V453000>speaking of ducks ... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/SLUGS2.png
03:35<V453000>:>
03:35<V453000>you cant say no to these
03:36<Flygon>Uniporn?
03:37<V453000>yes, alternative name for unicorns
03:37<Flygon>Gotcha
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04:50<@Terkhen>good morning
04:50<V453000>merry christmas
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04:54<@Alberth>mornink
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05:24<Zacharias>Guten Tag, habe mir OpenTTD 1.3.0 runtergeladen und spielen wollen! jetzt frag ich mich allerdings ob ich zu blöde bin. Ich kann zum einen nur Straßen- und Wasserstraßenbau betreiben. Und zum anderen kann ich keine Bushaltestellen, Bahnhöfe oder ähnliches bauen um die ersten Grundlagen fürs weiter Spiel zu legen! kann mir jemand sagen was ich Falsch mache???
05:27<__ln__>Welche Jahr ist es?
05:28<Zacharias>Wie meinst??? Ingame???
05:29<__ln__>Ich weiß doch das outgame-Jahr...
05:30<Zacharias>ich glaube das jahr spielt dabei keine rolle, immer wenn ich ein spiel starte kann ich einfach keine grundlagen schaffen
05:31<Zacharias>sorry, ja klar weist das outgame jahr ^^ lol
05:33<Zacharias>das startjahr lässt sich ja ändern, aber das prob bleibt das selbe! ich fange an, an mir zu zweifeln!
05:35-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5e8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
05:40<@planetmaker>Zacharias, probier 1950 als Startjahr ohne NewGRFs
05:40-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
05:40<@planetmaker>moin frosch123
05:40<frosch123>hola
05:41<@Rubidium>EHLO
05:42<Zacharias>ok, danke planetmaker. ist hier öfter mal jemand um anzutreffen??? nur für den fall das ich mal probs habe!
05:43<frosch123>__ln__ is always ehre
05:44<@planetmaker>hola Rubidium
05:44<@planetmaker>Zacharias, ja. Und gewöhnlich ist die Sprache hier Englisch jedoch
05:45<Zacharias>isses sehr schlimm wenn ich deutsch schreibe??? mein englisch ist leider sehr schlecht!
05:48<@planetmaker>kommt drauf an :-)
05:51<Zacharias>ok, dann hoffe ich das ihr mir wohl gesonnen seid! ^^ denn ich habe ein weiteres prob ^^
05:54<Zacharias>wenn ich das Game Starte kommt als ersten eine Nachricht in der steht ---> Fehler in der Konfigurations-Datei ... ...ungültiger Wert "false" für "difficult.economy"
05:55<@planetmaker>lösch die Zeile mit 'difficulty' aus openttd.cfg wenn OpenTTD nicht läuft
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05:56<Wolf01>moin
05:56<Zacharias>das prob mit den Bushaltestellen ist weg wenn ich 1950 starte, danke schon mal dafür ^^
05:57<@planetmaker>moin Wolf01
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06:05<Zacharias>@planetmaker, habe die ordner vom Game durchsucht, kann die von dir genannte Datei aber nicht finden! :(
06:15<@Alberth>wir haben ein sprech deutsch tag heute?
06:15<@Alberth>moin Wolf01
06:16<frosch123>Alberth: yes, it's 21th of april, which is almost 23th of mai
06:17<@Alberth>ah, a new season, that explains everything :)
06:18<frosch123>ah, true, we are about in the middle between spring start and 23th of mai
06:19<@planetmaker>moin Alberth :-)
06:19<@Alberth>gute morgen planetmaker :)
06:20<@planetmaker>Zacharias, http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/tags/1.3.0/readme.txt#L273 listet alle möglichen Orte
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06:21<@Alberth>try to get him to read one english file and he's gone :)
06:25<@planetmaker>:-) yeah
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08:56<swissfan91>Good Afternoon everyone
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08:58<swissfan91>Is it possible to code rails that show different graphics on the snow transitions?
09:03<@planetmaker>afaik no
09:03<@planetmaker>you only have snow / no snow info
09:03<@planetmaker>though with railtypes that's imho hardly an issue as the base tiles are not part of the railtype sprites, thus show the transition
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09:07<swissfan91>I can't seem to make them show the transition - track placed on the 3/4 snow transition shows full snow under the rail..
09:08<frosch123>yeah, rails geneally have only a snow flag
09:08<@planetmaker>I might have remembered that wrongly. If so, should not be a newgrf issue, but an openttd one
09:08<frosch123>actually, all buildings have
09:08<frosch123>only plain tiles have different shades
09:08<frosch123>and house / industry grfs which trick the system
09:09<@planetmaker>:-)
09:09<@planetmaker>lengthy template I once wrote for that :D
09:09<swissfan91>so this "trick on the system" cannot be replicated for tracks, trees, roads etc?
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09:09<@planetmaker>no
09:10<@planetmaker>nor IMHO should it be needed. OpenTTD should draw the transition w/o newgrf intervention there as it easily could
09:10<@planetmaker>"easily"
09:11<swissfan91>so how would that happen?
09:11<frosch123>ottd would just do the right thing
09:11<frosch123>nothing a grf has to worry about
09:11<@planetmaker>rail is drawn on default ground tiles, railtypes draw no ground tile
09:12<@planetmaker>what frosch sais
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09:13<swissfan91>I mean - how can we make OTTD do this?
09:13<@planetmaker>changing its code
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09:13<frosch123>removing the snow bits from the map array, and instead calculate it on the fly
09:13<Tom_Soft>http://www.infowars.com/fbi-ignores-men-with-backpacks-at-scene-of-boston-bombings/
09:14<Tom_Soft>Sorry for spam.
09:14<swissfan91>Ah, so a big job then?
09:14<@planetmaker>small to medium
09:15<frosch123>rahter medium :)
09:15<swissfan91>well that's slightly better news then :)
09:15<swissfan91>normally when map array is involved I normally get under the desk and hide.
09:15<frosch123>i believe it's even on my todo list, at position 120 or so :p
09:16<@planetmaker>:D I think I've seen a patch for that end by michi
09:16<@Rubidium>and given the recent commit rates...
09:16<@planetmaker>or sma7z. Not sure
09:16<frosch123>planetmaker: both :p
09:16<@planetmaker>:D
09:16<@Rubidium>I bet peter "I have a patch for that" 1139 has one as well
09:17<@Rubidium>frosch123: does the todo list have any non-openttd related things on it?
09:18<swissfan91>well that's great, thanks guys!
09:18<@Rubidium>or are the first 20 things stuff like "do laundry" and "do groceries"?
09:18<frosch123>Rubidium: i only meant the ottd-subtree
09:18<swissfan91>I won't start drawing loads of transition trees, roads and rails quite yet then..
09:18<@Rubidium>swissfan91: usually someone having a patch for something and not committing it means there's something horribly wrong with it
09:21<swissfan91>hmmm, maybe it's the patch that is making it snow in April then!
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09:36<juzza1>can I set different graphics for loading and unloading a train wagon in NML?
09:37<frosch123>nope
09:38<juzza1>ok
09:38<frosch123>you can only distinguish "at station" vs. "moving on track"
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10:27<RavingManiac>A thought
10:27<RavingManiac>You can gauge the skill level of a player by the number of tracks he has on his mainline
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10:28<RavingManiac>1-track = Newbie, 2-track = Just got the hang of it
10:28<RavingManiac>4+-track = Competent
10:29-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
10:29<Flygon>What if
10:29<Flygon>Raving
10:29<@planetmaker>doubt it, RavingManiac
10:29<Flygon>I use a variable number of tracks?
10:29<Flygon>Based on the need for the capacity of certain sections of track?
10:31<Flygon>In fact
10:32<Flygon>To use single track well, is an art in itself
10:32<@planetmaker>RavingManiac, depending on the map - and more so on the network layout - you need more or less. Adopted to the industries distribution, too
10:32<Flygon>I find myself using single track surprisingly often, for instance
10:32<@Alberth>just detection of number of tracks is already very difficult
10:32<Flygon>Mostly for passenger branchlines that lack much passenger use, but also get a lot of freight
10:33<Flygon>The justification for the line being the freight, and the passenger being an extension
10:33<Flygon>The trick to this? Crossing loops around the shared track
10:33<@planetmaker>RavingManiac, and if you play, for instance, with a goal script, competence certainly can't be measured that easily either.
10:34<Flygon>Therefor, the best track in OpenTTD, is a single track line that is well managed and free flowing
10:34<@planetmaker>My networks with e.g. NoCarGoal look distinctly more different - and quick'n dirty than I build w/o a goal script
10:35<Flygon>Four tracks is very wasteful, either way.
10:38<@planetmaker>2x2 is not to bad. if it's 4x2, that's hardly ever needed
10:39<@planetmaker>*too
10:40<@Rubidium>2x2 is very useful if you try to make a realistic-ish passenger scenario
10:40<@Rubidium>one track for ICs, one track for slow traffic
10:41<@Rubidium>although, with enough acceleration and timetabling you could try the shinkansen approach
10:41<Flygon>Oh yes
10:41<Flygon>That's perfectly alright
10:41<Flygon>I normally employ the Shinkansen approach
10:41<Flygon>2x2 is another one I do use sometimes
10:42<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/mine.png <- is that competent? ;)
10:43<@Rubidium>maybe there's another measure of competence: the number of tracks built on top of eachother
10:44<@Rubidium>that one has at least a place with 3 tracks and an aqueduct
10:44<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/finnishrailways1980network.png Is this competent?
10:45<Flygon>I could dump a full screenshot, but I'd run out of RAM :B
10:45<@Rubidium>can't tell, how many "tracks" are there on top of eachother in the busiest parts?
10:45<Flygon>I'll have to take an indepth screenie of bits
10:46<Flygon>Either way
10:46<Flygon>I am impressed
10:46<Flygon>By you, that is
10:46<Flygon>I'm too obsessed with high speed curves
10:47<@Rubidium>it's an ancient game though; pre-trunkification of path signals
10:47<V453000>Rubidium: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Psg230.png :P
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>since we're at throwing screenshots of the game at each other: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png
10:47<@Rubidium>V453000: yep, that's competent ;)
10:49<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: can't find any place that shows competence ;)
10:50<Flygon>Uuh
10:50<Flygon>Slight issue
10:50<Flygon>I'd upload a screenie
10:50<Flygon>But it's 16mb
10:50<Flygon>...
10:50*Flygon turns off trees
10:50<Flygon>7.2mb now
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: can't find any at yours either :p
10:53<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/finnishrailnetwork1981defaultzoom.png I am not a great network designer
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10:54<Flygon>I really gotta upgrade the Haapamaki line...
10:55<Flygon>It's a single track branch gone wrong
10:56<Pinkbeast>Single track branches in OTTD rarely work well. :-/
10:56<Flygon>It got upgraded to double track
10:56<Flygon>But I didn't upgrade the station...
10:56<Flygon>Now I'm gonna need more longer trains
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>you make these "lakes" yourself, or are those now part of the river generation?
10:57<Pinkbeast>And the local authority loathes you because you once touched a tree?
10:57<Flygon>Eddi: A real world based map
10:57<Flygon>Realism ended up giving way to 'tunnels' >_>
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>the aqueducts are weird...
10:58<Flygon>It was the best I could do x.x
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>in half the places you could have just used bridges
10:59<Flygon>There's signalling under the aqueducts
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>you have waaay too much space on this map :p
11:00<Flygon>It's 2048*2048 @_@
11:00<Flygon>I have played smaller maps, though
11:01<Flygon>Generally 256*256 to 1024*1024
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>i think mine was 128x256
11:03<V453000>256x256 :> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/SLUG%20NEST%2C%202141-08-23.png
11:04<V453000>(15mb)
11:05<Flygon>Not bad
11:05<Flygon>either way
11:05<Flygon>I gotta sleep
11:05<Flygon>Waking up in 7 hours to drop a kid off to school
11:05<Flygon>And damned if he's going to get killed due to sleep deprevation of the driver
11:06<Flygon>Unless irl is actually a game of OpenTTD
11:06<Flygon>In which case, I'll get trapped in a 3 track rail crossing
11:06<Flygon>Man...
11:06<Flygon>If the Werribee level crossing got reproduced in OpenTTD
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>there's a creeper driving the slug! :p
11:06<Flygon>You'd have SO MANY car crashes
11:07<Flygon>Hyvaa yota
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>you misplaced your ä's
11:08<V453000>there are various things Eddi :P
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11:12<@planetmaker>V453000, a pity that you switched on transparency :-)
11:13<V453000>:o
11:14<V453000>well yeah :)
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>i think i should break my computer now...
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11:36<V453000>operational
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11:52<juzza1>is there a way to change sprites depending on if you flip your train in the depot?
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11:52<juzza1>im thinkin no, because vehicle_is_reversed variable doesnt change when you flip the train in depot
11:52<V453000>sure is
11:52<V453000>sec
11:54<V453000>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2229/
11:54<V453000>I use this thing
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11:55<V453000>the bottom one asks if vehicle is reversed
11:55<V453000>0xFD says it is not, the other two values say it is
11:55<V453000>in my case I use further switches to only show alternate sprites in the depot when vehicle is stopped
11:57<V453000>e.g. I use the left column of sprites for not reversed sprites, the right one for reversed ( it just adds a flip arrow ) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/changes/gfx/railmedium_modern.png
11:57<V453000>as I use this only for symmetric trains
11:57<V453000>juzza1: ^
11:59<juzza1>thanks, ill see if i can get it working
11:59<V453000>feel free to ask if you dont
12:01<juzza1>thinking about the variables in that code, they can probably be found in some documentation?
12:02<V453000>I suppose in the grf specs
12:03<V453000>if you use exactly the switch I used, it will work
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12:08<juzza1>is that code only for the depot window?
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12:09<V453000>only if you use the top 2 switches
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12:10<V453000>switch_railmedium9_reversing is the one which asks if the train is flipped
12:10<V453000>which has output to the normal spriteset of the train if the train is not flipped ( the first output)
12:10<V453000>or to another switch if the train is flipped
12:11<V453000>the another switches are what makes it apply only to depots as those two ask if train is in the depot, and if it is stopped
12:11<V453000>var[0xC8, 0, 0xFF] is apparenltly like "vehicle_is_flipped" if that value exists/existed
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12:12<juzza1>not working at least yet, i gotta think a little more though cause getting confused
12:12<juzza1>i just flips the train but sprite is the same
12:13<juzza1>*it
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12:13<V453000>paste the code :)
12:13<@planetmaker>hm, is var 0xC8 missing from NML, V453000 ?
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12:15<V453000>I suppose pm, I doubt I would have done it this monstrous way otherwise
12:16<@planetmaker>hm, I wonder if there was a reason...
12:17<V453000>cant help you there :s
12:17<@planetmaker>doesn't vehicle_is_reversed do what you need?
12:18<juzza1>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2230/ here is the code
12:18<juzza1>the train will flip, but sprite wont change
12:19<juzza1>and the flipping in depot is somehow glitched, cause the train sprite just jumps? so as if it flips the flipped sprite
12:19<juzza1>and i tested the vehicle_is_reversed, doesnt change if you flip in depot
12:19<V453000>you didnt use the switch block in graphics block ?
12:20<V453000>default: switch_bla
12:20<V453000>default: switch_railmedium9_reversing;
12:20<V453000>not sure if you need to load spritesets before switches they are used in, maybe not
12:21<V453000>I suppose it doesnt pm :s I would guess I tried that when I was attempting to make this feature work
12:21<V453000>what it did or how I do not remember atm though
12:21<V453000>but I think just nothing happened
12:22<V453000>or is vehicle_is_reversed for depot? or is it like the shunting thing UKRS uses?
12:22<juzza1>yeah it doesn't need the default: necessarily, and i tried loading the spritesets first (and also adding default:) but it's still the same, not working properly
12:23<juzza1>vehicle_is_reversed changes (for me) when you use the reverse arrow in the train window
12:23<juzza1>or when you send the train to depot, and it reverses itself (because TRAIN_FLAG_FLIP is active)
12:23<V453000>a stopped, flipped, and depotted vehicle does not change sprites?
12:24<juzza1>no, at least i cant get it to change no matter what i do
12:25<juzza1>correction: might change in the depot, but isn't changed when the train leaves depot, i will try with a sprite from which i can tell for 100% certainty
12:25<V453000>good
12:26<V453000>0xFE: switch_railmedium9_stopped; 0xFF: switch_railmedium9_stopped;
12:26<V453000>replace these two lines with
12:26<V453000>0xFE: spriteset_DI_DV12_flipped; 0xFF: spriteset_DI_DV12_flipped;
12:26<V453000>you dont want to check if the vehicle is stopped or depotted
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12:39<V453000>aany success?
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12:48<juzza1>managed to break something here, gonna take a sec
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13:27<juzza1>had some funky stuff happening, but basically now what it does is that the flipping sort of works, but it takes the sprites in the bottom row in mirrored order
13:27<juzza1>if you count from the left, the sprite order would be 56781234 instead of the normal 12345678
13:28<V453000>hm
13:28<V453000>well yeah because it still is reversed I guess
13:29<V453000>you could create a new template for the spritesets which just uses it in the other order
13:29<V453000>and define the flipped spriteset that way
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13:33<juzza1>yeah
13:33<juzza1>found the variables http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles
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13:35<juzza1>thanks for all the help :D
13:35<V453000>np :)
13:39<Wolf01>bye
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13:43<juzza1>so this is what happens: with your method only when flipping in depot is the variable "vehicle is flipped" changed, but if you use "vehicle_is_reversed " provided in NML documentation, that variable changes both when flipping in depot, AND when reversing the train with the reverse direction arrow
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25195 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-21 17:45:18 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 19 changes by Phreeze
13:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 244 changes by GunChleoc
13:45<@DorpsGek>tamil - 2 changes by aswn
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13:48<V453000>interesting
13:49<juzza1>i gave bogus information earlier because my sprite got me all confused, but now i tested it with 4-color sprite and couldnt be more certain
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13:50<V453000>:)
13:50<V453000>well, at least you got it working now :)
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13:51<@planetmaker>that's intended, yes
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13:51<@planetmaker>as each time the train reverses
13:51<@planetmaker>or rather reversal changes
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>why is it, the quieter a computer gets, the more you are annoyed by every sound it makes?
14:56<@Rubidium>the same reason that every bugfix yields more bugs than it solves
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>i soon will just put the computer in the next room, and figure out a way to get the cables through the wall :p
15:01<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.ecotools.nl/gatenzaag-127mm/ ;)
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, about what i thought :)
15:02<@Rubidium>although this might be a bit too big
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>you get difficulties plugging in USB devices or inserting DVDs, though
15:03<Supercheese>USB extension cables
15:04<V453000>^
15:05<V453000>sounds like a good idea though :D my pc makes a terrible amount of noise
15:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: any decent monitor should have some USB hub inside it ;)
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but not a USB3 hub
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15:06<Eddi|zuHause>which already annoys me now, since USB3 ports are only at the back of the computer
15:06<@Rubidium>my brother did something like that, with a slightly smaller one, and used http://www.veiligwonenwinkel.nl/product_images/veiligwonenwinkel/Voorzijde%20tochtstrip%20brievenbus.jpg over the hole
15:14<DDR>Oh, nice.
15:14<DDR>Wouldn't have thought of that solution.
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16:01<Supercheese>Hmm, my USB3 port is at the front of my computer...
16:01<Supercheese>but I only have 1
16:01<frosch123>what device do you need it for?
16:02<Supercheese>I have an external enclosure for a hard drive
16:02<@planetmaker>for my card reader
16:04<frosch123>i also have an external hdd, but usb2 is just enough for rsync
16:04<frosch123>i do not have that much new data
16:04<frosch123>i do not backup ottd binaries :p
16:06<__ln__>i'd need usb3 for my keyboard
16:06<frosch123>true, it limits by apm
16:07<frosch123>luckily my (likely 15 year old) keyboard is ps/2
16:09<oskari89>Does someone know something about OpenTTD's Scenario editor's heightmap?
16:09<Supercheese>What's the question?
16:09<oskari89>And the way it's processed?
16:09<oskari89>It would be absolutely awesome if one could draw rivers with some colour on heightmap
16:10<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/Terkhen/Scenario_format
16:11<oskari89>Because there is like 10^6 lakes here, nearby, and when i'm trying to do those heightmaps, the lakes are always problematic
16:11<Supercheese>Extended heightmap format is not implemented yet
16:13<oskari89>If you paint them (lakes) with 0 meters on photoshop or so on land which is about 200 meters or so (up from sea level), you'll end up with not-so-nice cliffs near lakes
16:13<oskari89>And the quantity of lakes, them being on different levels...
16:15<Supercheese>Pretty sure you can't have rivers in heightmaps yet in trunk
16:16<oskari89>http://wiki.openttd.org/Terkhen/Scenario_format#Water_layer
16:16<oskari89>"Sea: Only tiles at zero height can be marked as sea. OpenTTD will treat any tiles marked as sea above height zero as rivers. "
16:16<frosch123>if the heightmap has valley for rivers, the river generator is very likely to use them though
16:16<Supercheese>Pretty sure that's not implemented yet
16:16<frosch123>try the corsica heightmap on 2kx2k
16:17<frosch123>and yes, the extended heightmap stuff is not implemented
16:17<oskari89>Yes, but when it's implemented... Can it work that way?
16:17<Supercheese>sure
16:17<oskari89>!!
16:17<oskari89>I'll be waiting for that :)
16:17<Supercheese>we all are :)
16:18<oskari89>Then, one needs to mark all lakes with that water layer... 8)
16:19<oskari89>D'oh
16:20<oskari89>I suppose photoshop has some smart options for that :P
16:21<@planetmaker>would then be easy to do that stuff in layered graphics
16:21<@planetmaker>any decent pixel editor should offer that
16:21<frosch123>likely you would use layers inside the psd
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16:26<oskari89>Is someone working on that feature? :)
16:28*Rubidium ponders citing Schroedinger
16:28<V453000>take it from the bright side, you can be the first ! :D
16:28<@planetmaker>Rubidium, don't measure it or the wave (function) will collapse?
16:30<@Rubidium>yeah, and if you try to figure it out... an universe will be created where it did happen and one where it didn't happen. Question is, in which universe do you end up?!?
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese> but I only have 1 <-- how does that work? i have only ever seen USB ports come in pairs
16:31<@Rubidium>that's also why I usually keep you pondering whether I've gone to bed already ;)
16:33<@planetmaker>:D
16:35<TWerkhoven>other is used internally for a cardreader or other internal usb thing?
16:36<V453000>how do I recognize if I am a cow or not?
16:36<V453000>moo
16:36<TWerkhoven>release the bull
16:36<V453000>no bull around here :(
16:36-!-Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd
16:36-!-Muxy is "Benoit" on #openttd @+#openttd.fr @+#goulp
16:37<Muxy>ehlo openttd.fr
16:37<Supercheese>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=693&fid=4
16:38<Supercheese>Middle port is USB3
16:38<Supercheese>others are USB2
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>that page fails
16:38<V453000>elo
16:39<Supercheese>works for me
16:39<Supercheese>hmm
16:39<V453000>I heard Syl59 is having some good influence on goulp :P
16:39<Supercheese>try http://www.antec.com/images/product_detail/Twelve_Hundred/BigBanner/4.png
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>that fails even worse
16:39<Muxy>Eddi|zuHause: set language to english
16:40<Supercheese>odd
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16:41<Eddi|zuHause>ah, it's one of those "named .png but .jpg inside" pictures
16:41<TWerkhoven>http://store.antec.com/Product/enclosure-gear_for_gamers/0-761345-15118-4/Twelve-Hundred-V3%20%20.aspx <-- that one?
16:42<Muxy>V453000: syl59 has nothing to do with goulp
16:42<V453000>no? :d I thought that is how your community is called
16:42<Supercheese>yes, that one
16:42<Muxy>syl59 belongs to openttd France
16:43<V453000>oh, french wars :D
16:43<Muxy>nope
16:43<Muxy>and OpenTTD France is my new toy
16:43<V453000>oh :)
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: so that still doesn't answer where it hides the 2nd usb port
16:44<Supercheese>"- 1 x USB 3.0 "
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: and why do you need all those system fans?
16:45<Supercheese>I got the case as a package deal, I didn't select it on its own merits
16:45<Supercheese>the case fans are a pain, really
16:45<Muxy>and what do you mean by good influence ?
16:45<TWerkhoven>guess it just uses a single connection
16:47<V453000>teaching people there how to build :P
16:47<Muxy>how to build network ?
16:48<V453000>yeah
16:49<Muxy>yop he's doing some great job at openttd France
16:49<V453000>:) nice to hear
16:50-!-KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:53<Muxy>V453000: as you can see when you visit it
16:53<V453000>it is passworded isnt it
16:54<Muxy>what is passworded ?
16:55<V453000>ah I see you have multiple servers
16:55<V453000>well the unpassworded server is not exactly impressive with 40 ships :D
16:56<Muxy>3 unpassworded servers
16:57<V453000>weird sorting, now I see them
16:57<Muxy>and 2 protected for members only
16:57<V453000>oh :D I see you use NUTS on coop server
16:58<Muxy>yop, nice grf
16:58<Muxy>with the universal rails
16:58<frosch123>night
16:58-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5e8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:59<Muxy>and as you're a member, you should be able to access to them
17:00<V453000>wtf? me? :D
17:00<Muxy>yop
17:00<V453000>how can I be a member of ttd france? :D
17:00<Muxy>by registering
17:00<Muxy>i have a Vaclav Benc user
17:00<V453000>oh :D I guess I did that some time ago
17:00<V453000>that be me
17:02<V453000>I suppose I wasnt able to find the password on the french page :)
17:02<Muxy>then ask google to translate...
17:03<V453000>pretty sure I did that
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17:09<V453000>nope, cant say I can find anything there even with a translator, not sure if I am blind or what ... openttd.fr right?
17:10<Muxy>about server password ?
17:10<Muxy>its in the "Partie Libre" Forum, the sticky post
17:11<Muxy>but you need to be logged in
17:11<@planetmaker>g'night
17:12<V453000>oh :) well logging in shouted 403
17:12<V453000>Error 403 We're sorry, but we could not fulfill your request for /users.php on this server. You do not have permission to access this server. Data may not be posted from offsite forms.
17:13<Muxy>Referer did not point to a form on this site
17:15<V453000>wonder if that could have possibly been because of incorrect password, but it is a weird error even if it was
17:15<Muxy>may be
17:17<V453000>you really have some strange page showing difference between registered and unregistered users :D
17:18<Muxy>or may be using the logging form from google translation
17:19<Muxy>as registred and logged in, you have access to more content
17:19<V453000>well I understand that wiki/forum posting/editing is for registered only, but showing content sounds rather ridiculous
17:20<Muxy>bah
17:21<Muxy>forum content is reserved for members
17:21<Muxy>but not all
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'll screw up my system some more
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17:23<V453000>hm, in whichever translation (I somewhat understand french) I cant find the password there, but whatever
17:23<Muxy>forum "Our Servers" "Free Games"
17:27<+glx>just checked the post, it's probably hard to translate for a tool
17:27<Muxy>sure
17:28<Muxy>and a bit hard to read all
17:28<+glx>yeah even untranslated :)
17:28<V453000>I found it in the french version
17:28<V453000>but the czech translation was so twisted that I couldnt find it there :D
17:29<Muxy>then glx, you will make us a beautifull short post explaining how to connect to the servers...
17:30<V453000>either way, I am not sure if 1k x 1k map is beneficial for cooperative games :D
17:30<V453000>the towns create insane amount of cpu stress
17:31<V453000>at least disabling them to be able building roads is a good idea ... when they want to play a passenger based game, they can at least control the growth :)
17:32<Muxy>bah its a simle coop game, more used to learn how to play
17:32<Muxy>not the way openttdcoop use it
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17:32<V453000>still a map which is accessible by not being massively demanding on hardware is helpful
17:34<Muxy>bah
17:34<V453000>not bah :)
17:35<V453000>in fact people generally learn more on a smaller map because more problems need solving earlier and with less pc stress
17:37<Muxy>but on that game our players were not as cooperative as the should have been
17:37<Muxy>cause no "game master" to animate
17:38<V453000>yeah well, I say that all the time, good server needs an admin who is playing there :)
17:39<Muxy>sure
17:43<V453000>it is easy to make the "game master" after a short while even if the person isnt an admin though :) just needs an active player
17:45<Muxy>in coop game, yes
17:46<V453000>even without cooperating
17:46<Muxy>then it's better to give some extra power
17:46<Muxy>not the whole console access but allow some commands
17:47<V453000>well I dont mean executively, of course such a player is not able to get rid of griefers and such, but he makes the server alive and makes people return back there, obviously the more such players the better
17:48<V453000>obviously that person gets to be an admin sooner or later usually simple to the fact that he is there all the time
17:48<V453000>but it isnt necessary for making a server alive
17:48<Muxy>before admin, we have moderators
17:49<V453000>those are all nice but that does not really make the server
17:49<V453000>every server has an admin, but there are only a few good servers
17:49<V453000>if you have a player who is able to help people, explain things to them ,or just point them at the right direction if he does not know, people will likely return there
17:50<Muxy>sure, but ot needs also some extra power to kick bad players
17:50<Muxy>and to be a good server, need to have some people to animate
17:51<Muxy>this is a 24/7 jpb
17:51<Muxy>*job
17:52<V453000>well the more often the better obviously :)
17:54<Muxy>bed time... cya later
17:54<V453000>bai
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 22 00:00:31 2013