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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-04-27

---Logopened Sat Apr 27 00:00:38 2013
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02:42<@planetmaker>good morning
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04:19<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:21<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
04:22<@Alberth>o/
04:22<@planetmaker>hola Alberth :-)
04:26<NGC3982>Can i set a new password for a player, via console?
04:26<@planetmaker>no
04:26<NGC3982>As a server administrator, that is.
04:26<NGC3982>Ok.
04:26<@planetmaker>but you can move him into the company
04:27<@planetmaker>and then he can set himself
04:27<@planetmaker>or you can move into that company and set it
04:28<NGC3982>Oh, the latter seems right for me. I forgot my own company password..
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05:07<Wolf01>hello
05:09<@Alberth>moin
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05:58<Wolf01>hi frosch123
05:58<@Alberth>o/
05:58<NGC3982>_o
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06:16<oskari89>I have thought that why OpenTTD trains go grey when they crash
06:17<oskari89>Because of fireball? :P
06:18<oskari89>Someone could make a switch to disable crash greying :P
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06:19<TheBix>Guys
06:19<TheBix>How come my train keeps entering the depot and won't drive past it?
06:19<TheBix>wtf?
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06:22<TheBix>net split?
06:22<ZxBiohazardZx>nah more then that
06:22<TheBix>ZxBiohazardZx, hey how come my train keeps entering the depot and won't drive past it?
06:23<TheBix>is there something im missing that isn't in the tutorial?
06:23<LANJesus>SIGNALS
06:24<TheBix>LANJesus, this wasn't mentioned in the tutorials
06:26<TheBix>LANJesus, also theres a video on the tutorial page that shows a train driving past the depot just fine
06:26<TheBix>so theres something im missing or a bug
06:27<@planetmaker>electic engine with an unelectrified piece of track ahead?
06:27<NGC3982>TheBix: Please contribute with a screenshot.
06:28<TheBix>NGC3982, http://eshays.org/view.html?id=485169079
06:29<TheBix>as you can see, it says its headed for the woods station but it has entered the depot
06:29<TheBix>when it leaves the depot it heads back to the mines station and repeats the cycle and never reaches the woods station
06:29<NGC3982>TheBix: You have a missing tile.
06:29<TheBix>NGC3982, oh wow, silly me
06:29<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/Nwh1QgB.jpg
06:30<NGC3982>A tip: When having issues like this, using the transparency buttons to navigate between levels of sight always help.
06:30<TheBix>ah, where are those?
06:30<TheBix>the tutorials said that right clicking on buttons provides a description but this hasn't worked for me
06:30<TheBix>version 1.3.0 btw
06:31<NGC3982>TheBix: Yes, click the big gear button right next to the double-speed arrow in the gameplay menu.
06:32<NGC3982>In the list, you will find transparency options (hotkey ctrl+X).
06:32<@planetmaker>thus that it has no path?
06:33<NGC3982>TheBix: Excuse the swedish translation, but you should be able to navigate with this: http://i.imgur.com/eiWHIOB.png
06:33<TheBix>NGC3982, thank you
06:36<@planetmaker>By default, TheBix , the tooltip appears by hovering over the buttons
06:36<@planetmaker>you can change it to right click in the adv. settings
06:38<NGC3982>Speaking of, i have been starting to feel the tree transparency to be a kind of cheat.
06:38<NGC3982>It feels more real having to track down track errors manually, for some reason.
06:41<ZxBiohazardZx>TheBix most likely servicing or tracklayout errors
06:41<ZxBiohazardZx>ow nvm you miss a tile
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06:48<NGC3982>The fences are a good giveaway.
06:48<Wolf01>stardock fences?
06:49<ZxBiohazardZx>blegh splits suck?
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06:50<ToBeFree>split resistance, obviously
06:53<Sacro>By the Split!
06:56<NGC3982>Wolf01: I read "< Wolf01> stargate fences?"
06:57<Wolf01>:)
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08:38<Eddi|zuHause>gnah, why must the next saveload version be something evil-ish like "introduce the engine pool" :/
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08:45<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: because you're living way too much in the past?
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the game is only in 1942 :p
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>but this old paxdest patch really is unplayable
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09:47<oskari89>Regearing cargo, which industry sets it disables?
09:47<oskari89>FIRS, ECS?
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>ECS has trouble if regearing is activated afterwards
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise i have no experience with regearing
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10:06<NGC3982>Uhm, do any of you have an idea on how fast oil and diesel can be shipped in Sweden, by train?
10:06<NGC3982>I am unaware of cargo specific speed limits.
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause>moving liquids is always a bit tricky, if the tank is not entirely full
10:24<NGC3982>Yes, i got in touch with a few friends that work on the railway
10:25<NGC3982>And it does not seem to exist any cargo specific limits
10:25<NGC3982>Although, 110-120km/h seems to be a normal maximum speed around here.
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>there are physical forces and electrostatics to be considered
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>but i guess the problem is acceleration more than actual speed
10:26<NGC3982>And trying to stop, i guess.
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10:28<@Alberth>that could be considered negative acceleration :p
10:28<NGC3982>Yey.
10:29<@Alberth>I would expect that wagons are designed such that no nasty things happen no matter what the train driver tries
10:30<@Alberth>otherwise, people may get upset with them
10:30<NGC3982>Yes.
10:30<@Alberth>(them = the wagon designers)
10:31<NGC3982>I have a few train driver friends that helped me out with this on Facebook, and it seems like they do not approve of the Swedish speed limit regulations for radioactive material
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10:32<NGC3982>It seems like you cannot ship it by train over a certain speed (by law), but at the same time, they say that the carts containing radioactive material are much more protected than a normal tanker wagon.
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>wait, your radioactive trains manage anything other than walking speed?
10:32<@Alberth>depends on who make that limit
10:33<NGC3982>I guess regulations make uranium carrying carts virtually indestructable in comparison to a diesel tanker wagon
10:33*NGC3982 shrugs.
10:33<NGC3982>wagons*
10:33<@Alberth>I would hope so :)
10:33<@Alberth>if some politician invented that law, it is likely not based on technical concerns :)
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't remeber lots of people trying to stop a diesel tanker train :p
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10:34<NGC3982>Alberth: Yeah..
10:34<NGC3982>Trying to stop it does not seem to be the reason for the regulations
10:34<NGC3982>But safety
10:34<NGC3982>And i don't really follow
10:35<@Alberth>well, politicians don't follow logic
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>most of the cost of shipping radioactive containers over here is police force fending off protesters
10:35<NGC3982>Yeah, i guess so.
10:36<@Alberth>if they used logic, their decisions might be understandable :)
10:36<NGC3982>I understand having a low speed limit on radioactive material, but i do not understand why you at the same time can drive hundreds of tonnes of diesel in five times the speed.
10:36<NGC3982>Though, i have noticed something strange with 1.3.0, from 1.2.3.
10:37<NGC3982>While right-click scrolling the map, the minimap flashes in white (sometimes).
10:37<NGC3982>It's not really a problem.
10:48<@Alberth>it's a feature
10:49<@Alberth>your cursor is over one of the industry legends then
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11:01<NGC3982>Leg..ends?
11:01<NGC3982>:>
11:03<@Alberth>the text-thingies at the bottom of the minimap explaining what colour each industry is :)
11:03<NGC3982>Oooh!
11:03<NGC3982>Neat!
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11:09<juzza1>can i use some callback to rename my vehicle after a specific year?
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11:29<Eddi|zuHause>no, names can not be changed
11:30<juzza1>ok
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>hm, random idea: in scenario editor, when you place a river tile, allow ctrl+click to generate a whole river
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>and i like the idea of randomly placing lakes (although not necessarily correlated to rivers)
12:52<APTX_>http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD doesn't work for me, but other wiki pages do...
12:53<Ristovski>APTX_: doesn't work for me either
12:53<Ristovski>"HTTP Error 500 (Internal Server Error)"
12:53<Ristovski>it exists tho, http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=OpenTTD&action=edit
12:54<APTX_>cute
12:54<Ristovski>APTX_: I betya is some broken formatting which is making the server shit itself
12:54<APTX_>http://wiki.openttd.org/Building_signals ... damn
12:55<Ristovski>http://wiki.openttd.org/Main_Page
12:55<Ristovski>it's all broken
12:55<Ristovski>even http://wiki.openttd.org/
12:55<APTX_>that works for me
12:55<Ristovski>not for me
12:57<Ristovski>planetmaker: Any idea why the wiki is returning 500, aka internal server error
12:58<Ristovski>probably PHP
12:58<Ristovski>APTX_: if the main page works for you, that means you probably just have it cached
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>it works here
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>and i almost never visit the wiki, so caching is probably not the case
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>ah, now i got an error
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>it happens very randomly, though
13:02<@planetmaker>no, I don't know. But yes I know it happens. And I asked those who can do something about it to take a look
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>have you tried contacting TrueBrain?
13:03<@planetmaker>:-)
13:04-!-kero [~keikoz@152.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
13:05<@planetmaker>but maybe Rubidium or TrueBrain can have a look at wiki VM before more people encounter many blank pages
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13:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm, the debug levels for sl don't really give much useful information
13:31<Sacro>stupid svn://
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13:39<Eddi|zuHause>" * Do something of which I have no idea what it is :P"
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>very helpful
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13:42<Ristovski>lol
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25210 trunk/src/lang/gaelic.txt (2013-04-27 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 6 changes by GunChleoc
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>well the code is from r1 and the comment from r2387
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>but i am a step closer to savegame conversion
13:59<@Alberth>:)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>i have now found all places where i need to hack in settings
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>but now need something for the "invalid chunk types"
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>or rather "unknown chunk"
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>and maybe match the yapp stuff onto what actually got in trunk later
14:08<Sacro>install: cannot change permissions of `///usr/local/share/pixmaps': No such file or directory
14:08<Sacro>:(
14:09<Sacro>oh right
14:09<@Alberth>perhaps point ./configure to an install directory where you have write access?
14:09<Sacro>--install-dir
14:09<Sacro>Alberth: no, it doesn't respect DESTDIR being the problem
14:10<@Alberth>build directory and install directory are separate things in sane build environments
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14:11<Sacro>yes
14:11<Sacro>and make DESTDIR=$pkgdir install
14:11<Sacro>is standard nomencleture in arch
14:12<@planetmaker>provide us with a patch so that it does respect it :-)
14:12<@Alberth>ok, that's good, there are too many build environments that think the build path and the install path are the same
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14:20<Sacro>now why can't it find the lang directory
14:21<Sacro>strace shows it finding it
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14:23<@Alberth>does ./openttd -d 9 display why it is rejected?
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14:24<Sacro>oh there we go, had to compile it with the path i was moving it into
14:24<Sacro>now it needs a graphics set ><
14:27<Sacro>grr
14:27<Sacro>I put it in data/baseset
14:28<Sacro>what more do yo uwant
14:29<@planetmaker>data/baseset sounds wrong
14:29<@planetmaker>OpenTTD does not want a data directory anymore
14:29<Sacro>ah unzip
14:29<Sacro>pssh
14:29<Sacro>still works
14:29<@planetmaker>it still does, yes
14:29<@planetmaker>but use baseset directly
14:30<@planetmaker>unless you run OpenTTD pre-1.2 alongside.
14:30<@planetmaker>it makes no sense to use the legacy paths
14:32<Sacro>argh fuck, just overwrote my openttd.cfg ><
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause>use your backup
14:38<Sacro>yes...
14:39<Sacro>wtf
14:40<Sacro>why is the version I compiled 24662M
14:40<Sacro>and the windows client 24663M
14:41<@Alberth>you didn't update at the root of the check-out?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>why did you check out a version from half a year ago?
14:43<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: Reddit servers have is2, cargodist and daylength
14:43<Sacro>though they provide a slightly retarded diff
14:43<Sacro>I might bitch for a full source dump
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14:44<Sacro>oh wait
14:44<Sacro>it's just deleting files that don't exist in .svn
14:44<Sacro>><
14:47*Wolf01 is going to watch ironman 3 and quits before somebody spoilers it :D
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14:49<Sacro>ah well, it lives
14:55<Sacro>maybe I didn't trash my cfg, just added a load of stuff
15:01<ZxBiohazardZx>!passw
15:01<ZxBiohazardZx>fail
15:01<ZxBiohazardZx>wrong channel, incomplete sentance
15:01<ZxBiohazardZx>epic
15:04<Supercheese>be glad, I think there might be auto-kick if you do that in this channel :P
15:05<Supercheese>Let's test
15:05<Supercheese>!password
15:05-!-Supercheese was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
15:05<__ln___>ZxBiohazardZx: *sentence
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15:19<andythenorth>hola
15:20<@planetmaker>hola andythenorth
15:22<__ln___>latin only
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15:26<ZxBiohazardZx>lol supercheese
15:26<ZxBiohazardZx>and yes __ln__ your right
15:27<__ln___>*you're
15:27<ZxBiohazardZx>obviously
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i somehow don't manage to just skip a whole chunk without knowing its specific data format :/
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>so i have to replicate some functionality for understanding the data, even though the final result doesn't interest me :/
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>just to know how much data i have to read
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15:48<frosch123>it is possible to skip unknown chunks
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>where?
15:51<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2241/ <- that's my hack-tool to modify savegames
15:51<frosch123>you have to uncompress it before though
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>that won't be an issue, since i' modifying the saveload code
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>but if i provide an empty function, it won't read any data
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>and there i can't find a way to know the size of the chunk to just read all of it
15:57<frosch123>isn't it enough to just put a NULL into the table instead of a function?
15:57<frosch123>or does that only work for saving it?
15:57<__ln___>can anyone point me to a book, article or reliable web page that compares different approaches to cross-platform software? e.g. native applications vs. java vs. python.
15:57<frosch123>anyway, the data format contains the information of the length
15:57<@Alberth>do you know what follows? then you can read upto that
15:57<frosch123>but it would not try to skip them with the chunk handlers
15:57<+michi_cc>Do you still have the sources for the old code? Simplest way is to NULL the save proc in the old version and save.
15:57<frosch123>but on a lower level
15:58<+michi_cc>Otherwise look at SlLoadChunk() in saveload/saveload.cpp
15:59<+michi_cc>And replicate what SlLoadCheckChunk() does in there as well.
15:59<@Alberth>__ln___: java vs python is about different application areas, imho
16:00<@Alberth>python is good at glueing, where you mostly wait for other code
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>i still have the old code, and managed to load-ish the savegame yesterday (but it had some issues which might or might not be related)
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>i think i have the essence of the data format now, to try and just read it
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16:05<andythenorth>drawing good winding wheels for a coal mine is bloody hard
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm, this is too complicated, i'll try nulling the save function
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16:14<andythenorth>this is the best I've got https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4325/coal_mine.png
16:15<andythenorth>RL, the wheel spokes are way too thin to show up in TTD
16:15<andythenorth>also the cables are too thick, but it's TTD style :P
16:15<andythenorth>I might trim them
16:16<andythenorth>they look odd
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>could scrape off one or two pixels
16:18<andythenorth>yup
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>and then animate them ;)
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16:21<andythenorth>I will animate them
16:23<@planetmaker>even TTD ones are animated :D
16:24<@planetmaker>surprisingly simple, though
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it still doesn't load...
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>i must have missed something
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>the initial check now runs, but the loading stops at chunk VEHS
16:27*Eddi|zuHause goes digging
16:27*andythenorth wonders if the default coal mine tile has animation frame
16:27<andythenorth>FIRS uses default tiles, changing that would break savegames a bit
16:28<@planetmaker>andythenorth, original coal mine has 3-stage animation
16:28<andythenorth>I'll reuse that if I can
16:28<@planetmaker>it then means to replace the appropriate sprites in the base set simply. Easy...
16:29<@planetmaker>iirc... I hope I don't confuse mines :D
16:30<@planetmaker>my memory served me well :-)
16:31<andythenorth>I can replace base set sprites? o_O
16:31<@planetmaker>if you don't change the industrie's graphics? Sure.
16:31<andythenorth>I have been adding my own graphics in the nml block thus far
16:31<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/base/base-2011-industries.pnml
16:31<andythenorth>maybe that's the same thing
16:31<@planetmaker>just copy it :-)
16:31<@planetmaker>nearly
16:31<@planetmaker>use a replace block
16:32<@planetmaker>not base_graphics as I linked
16:32<@planetmaker>replace coal_mine_anim1(2013, ...)
16:33<andythenorth>neat
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>the NFO equivalent would be action A (or action 5, i always mix those up)
16:33<@planetmaker>actionA
16:34<@planetmaker>action5 corresponds to replace_new
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>maybe nml should abstract from that?
16:34<@planetmaker>difficult. But in general I agree
16:36<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-industries/repository/entry/src/tiles/gold_mine_tiles.pnml <-- similar to that, andythenorth
16:36<@planetmaker>you can use one block instead of the many I used there
16:37<andythenorth>k
16:37<andythenorth>something to figure out tomorrow :)
16:37<@planetmaker>it actually has also animation of the same kind... so it's an example :-)
16:49<andythenorth>thanks
16:49<andythenorth>bye for now
16:49<@planetmaker>g'night, andythenorth
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18:47<frosch123>night
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 28 00:00:39 2013