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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-05-05

---Logopened Sun May 05 00:00:51 2013
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01:34<peter1139>http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/train_burnout.jpg
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03:52<scshunt>ello
03:52<scshunt>is there somewhere with an exact specification of how signals work? I think I get the gist but want to know precisely the behaviours of each kind
03:52<@Alberth>tutorials not sufficient?
03:53<V453000>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Presignal_Basics
03:53<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals and at the bottom there are a few more
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03:54<@Alberth>but just start with one-way path signal for everything :)
03:54<@Alberth>moin V
03:54<V453000>hi :) you cant imagine how harmful can PBS signals be to players, but I dont have time for that conversation now :P
03:55<@Alberth>not everybody builds the kind of track layouts that you make :)
03:56<scshunt>Alberth: that page isn't fully detailed
03:56<@Alberth>but yeah, if you want to become a signals expert, listen to V453000
03:57<@Alberth>scshunt: perhaps you could explain what you are looking for?
03:57<scshunt>for instance, if I have =E=B=X= where E is entry, B is block, and X is exit, does the entry key of the exit there?
03:57<V453000>it doesnt matter what kind of tracks, logical thinking and intuitiveness matters
03:57<scshunt>and how does PBS *actually work*
03:58<peter1139>pbs is simple and effective. V453000 just likes making life hard for himself.
03:58<@Alberth>scshunt: I don't understand "does the entry key of the exit there"
03:59<V453000>I know the signals so me making anything hard for me is irrelevant and senseless, I use PBS where it can be used effectively. But for learning a lot better approach is to start from block signals through presignals and pbs
03:59<scshunt>Alberth: like, does the entry signal pay attention to the exit signal, or does it just act like a block signal because it has no exit signals
04:00<scshunt>I'm a programmer and math mathjor, I can handle this if only I understand exactly what each signal type does
04:00<@Alberth>scshunt: PBS works by allocated routes through a block. When a train is about to enter a PBS block, it allocates a new path through the block, not used by any other train. When it succeeds, it passes the PBS signal
04:00<peter1139>V453000, that's like teaching 5 year olds imaginary numbers and differential equations and other shit, and then only later teaching them about addition
04:01<V453000>yep, signal A looking at signal B is totally mathematical equation
04:01<@Alberth>another train can also enter the same PBS block, as long as each can create a path through the block not used by any other train in the block
04:01<scshunt>Alberth: Ok. Can trains allocate parts of a path that the allocating train has passed over?
04:02<@Alberth>yes, trains release every track tile they have passed
04:02<scshunt>and what happens if you mix PBS with regular signals on the same block? collisions?
04:03<@Alberth>yep, make sure a PBS block can only be entered through a PBS signal
04:04<scshunt>hmm... ok. An entry pre-signal does not care at all about the trains in its block?
04:05<@Alberth>an entry pre-signal makes sure a block has an exit before allowing a train in; the combo signal looks ahead further into next blocks
04:05<scshunt>but what if there's a train in the block
04:05<scshunt>does it ignore the train or go red?
04:05<@Alberth>all but the PBS signals allow at most one train in a block
04:05<scshunt>ok
04:06<V453000>I suppose I should write a signals page
04:07<@Alberth>pre-signals are mostly for making sure crossings never get blocked by a train, but they are mostly outdated by PBS
04:07<scshunt>a lot of the wiki on signals is like "here's some not quite entirely explanatory text, followed by an image at a wide zoom level that makes it hard to see what the signals all actually are
04:08<@Alberth>scshunt: yep, problem is that a lot of that text is written by people that understand the subject
04:08<@Alberth>so they don't focus on things important for a new user
04:08<V453000>Alberth: both have completely different uses :) the only problem is that they are both an entry check which means they are often exchange-able in stations, but comparing them is really silly
04:08<scshunt>that seems right
04:09<scshunt>if I understand correctly, pre-signals would allow for a long stretch that can be reversed safely, and PBS does not
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04:10<V453000>you could always check our games http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive and see how signals are used
04:10<V453000>most of the time they should be used correctly
04:10<V453000>otherwise someone would have noticed
04:10<@Alberth>V453000: seeing a good solution does not mean you understand why that is a good solution, imho
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04:11<@Alberth>scshunt: reverse? why would you want to do that?
04:12<V453000>yes and no :) seeing it in a savegame means you can pause the game, and/or edit the signals and understand it that way
04:12<@Alberth>but yes, a single train in a block gives more room for doing weird things :)
04:12<V453000>with absolute extreme signal mechanisms savegame is almost the only way how to understand it
04:12<scshunt>Alberth: because in my first game, I was thinking like in real life where you often have a single stretch of track that runs in both directions with crossovers to accomodate bidirectional travel
04:12<@Alberth>V453000: I agree you need to see it in action
04:13<V453000>scshunt: never think "like in real life" in openttd :D does not lead to results
04:15<scshunt>yeah
04:16<scshunt>this was later evident when I discovered that a side circuit to retain momentum is advised
04:16<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Chendston_Transport_1927-05-24.png
04:16<scshunt>momentum isn't quite that valuable in real life
04:16<scshunt>yes, like that
04:17<@Alberth>many people put a lot of trains at a line
04:17<@Alberth>any disruption breaks the flow very badly then
04:19<scshunt>also, as I read more, I suspect that people wouldn't run a train in a circle just to time other trains either
04:19<@Alberth>also, a train does not slow down to run in the same pace as its predecessor, instead it stops
04:19<@Alberth>scshunt: people do make time tables to plan trains
04:20<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Timetable
04:20<@Alberth>I play with breakdowns enabled, which makes most planning kind of useless :p
04:21<@Alberth>There are several different styles of playing openttd, depending on what you focus on
04:25<V453000>no there are only people who play the game, and people who are lazy to play the game :P
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04:32<scshunt>is there any time delay for signals, or are they instantaneous?
04:33<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Junctionary_-_Logic_and_Other <-- perhaps you meant these kind of circles?
04:33<@Alberth>no time delay
04:34<V453000>most of those logic things are exceptional things which indeed are possible to build, but their usage is so specific that you normally dont build them
04:35<V453000>this is where things get real http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/5/54/Psg248_bbhfurball.png
04:35<scshunt>hmm... ok, I think I can already see how to develop a cyclotron that only allows trains to exit when operating at full speed
04:36<scshunt>although I can't think of how do one without possibly having to stop the train before it goes in
04:36<scshunt>(or stop some other train)
04:36<V453000>cyclotrons are only a random-based thing which hopes to increaese the throughput of your line(s) ... but adding more lines is a lot more effective
04:37<V453000>you just make a check in front of the cyclotron somewhere so no train can enter if the loop is full
04:38<scshunt>yeah, but suppose you have a fast main line and a slow side line (say, a station). then you could develop a particle accelerator by carefully timing with an adjoining train in a circle
04:38<V453000>not really worth it :)
04:39<scshunt>yeah probably not
04:39<V453000>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/ProZone:Archive_-_Games_11_-_20#gameid_13 this is as extreme as it can get in that regard
04:39<V453000>hint: you will need a correct revision to make it work though
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04:40<V453000>try that https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/pz13%20%E2%80%93%20kopie.rar
04:40<V453000>just duplicate your openttd folder, and overwrite this zip with it
04:45<scshunt>nah, it's fine
04:45<scshunt>I should sleep
04:46<scshunt>thanks, though, I'll be back :)
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05:13<@Alberth>o/ andy
05:13<andythenorth>hi hi
05:15-!-FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
05:19<andythenorth>so I fixed the palette on my new river sprites
05:19<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4424/rivers_better.png
05:20<andythenorth>LH bank is current openttd sprites, RH bank is new sprites
05:20<andythenorth>Rubidium: I want to carry on with this, you likely to accept it if I do?
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05:24*Alberth likes
05:25<@Rubidium>andythenorth: there you have it, Alberth accepts it ;)
05:25<@Alberth>oops ;)
05:25<@Rubidium>I see no obvious reason to reject it, though I wonder whether it's too dark
05:26<andythenorth>that's adjustable
05:27<andythenorth>I'll do the other tiles
05:27<andythenorth>then we can look
05:27<andythenorth>then I'll do the other climates
05:27<andythenorth>will take a few days
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06:18<Ruler>Hello. I'm having problems with openttd multiplayer.
06:18<Ruler>I cannot see any servers in the multiplayer or online content in the online content menu
06:19<Ruler>I have NAT. but I cannot figure out what to do with it to make it work
06:19<Zuu>@ports
06:19<@DorpsGek>Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
06:19<Zuu>Usually no configuration is needed to enable clients to communicate out from a NAT.
06:20<Zuu>But you could check both the router and local firewalls on your computer. The ports/protocolls used for communication is mentioned above.
06:20<Ruler>well. then i cannot figure out what's wrong. I disabled all my software antivirus and firewall and stuff but nothing shows if i open openttd
06:21<Zuu>Did you click on the "Find server" button?
06:21<Zuu>(In the multiplayer window)
06:21<Ruler>yes
06:22<Ruler>and the internet tab is selected
06:23<Zuu>If you go to the bananas window (cilck on "check online content" in the main menu), and wait up to a minute, is the list populated with online content items?
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06:24<andythenorth>o/ TrueBrain
06:25<Ruler>Zuu: nope
06:25<Zuu>Ruler: What OpenTTD version do you use?
06:25<@Alberth>Ruler: what version do you use? http://www.openttd.org/en/servers <-- does it show servers with your version?
06:25<Ruler>1.3
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06:26<@Alberth>(12:20:57 PM) Ruler: well. then i cannot figure out what's wrong. I disabled all my software antivirus and firewall and stuff but nothing shows if i open openttd <-- and your router?
06:26<@Alberth>or is that "stuff"?
06:27<Ruler>i cannot disable my router. my isp has provided it and it has limited options
06:27<Ruler>i created a rule to allow 3978-3980 ports both ways
06:27<Ruler>but no help
06:27<Ruler>in tcp and udp
06:28<@Alberth>oke
06:28<Zuu>This rule is mapped to the same local IP that your computer is using?
06:28<@Alberth>outbound only should be fine though
06:29<Ruler>got it working. doesn't like my wifi for some reason
06:29<Ruler>dunno
06:30<Ruler>wired connection works
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06:34<Zuu>Ruler: A possible reason could be a too high packet loss on your wifi.
06:35<Zuu>In my apartment, I can't do wifi cross the walls. I get better performance with 3G in my bedroom than with wifi (connected to a 10 Mbit service).
06:37<Ruler>yeah. there's lots of wifi noise in the neighborhood also
06:38<Ruler>all the apartments have wifi and it's hard to find a channel that isn't noisy in that sense
06:38<Ruler>thx for help.
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06:40<oskari89>Is Central European Train Set GPL?=
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06:40<frosch123>it's hosted on the devzone, so it has to be some free license
06:41<frosch123>so, i guess just check which license is bundled with it
06:41<oskari89>Ok, i checked out the license, it seems to be GPL
06:41<oskari89>So Finnish Trainset can use those green templates too :)
06:41<oskari89>Since it's gpl too
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07:18<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4427/meander.png
07:18<andythenorth>that's just a dirty flip of the RH banks to do the LH bank
07:19<andythenorth>to be done properly needs shading tweaking
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07:25<andythenorth>http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/174277/350wm/E5400096-Aerial_view_of_meandering_of_Curaray_River,_Ecuadr-SPL.jpg
07:29<@Alberth>that needs a bit more work than adapting the corners :)
07:30<@Alberth>but openttd does proper maintenance on the river beds of course ;)
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07:53<Wolf01>hello o/
07:53<NGC3982>Nice photo.
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07:56<juzza1>does a newgrf vehicle, which is not available in any climate, reserve an id?
07:57<NGC3982>That Openttd Android app keeps giving me a black screen.
07:57<frosch123>juzza1: yes
07:57<frosch123>not being available in any climate is a normal thing for articulated parts
07:58<juzza1>good
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's over 2/3 of CETS vehicles
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08:01<oskari89>Eddi|zuhause: Those green templates aren't available?
08:02<oskari89>They are :)
08:02<frosch123>total bloatware :) 2/3 of grf content is not available for purchase
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>oskari89: yes, but only 1/3 of them
08:02<oskari89>Ok
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>(or fewer, if you keep default settings)
08:03<oskari89>Someone has done some information mining on that CETS :)
08:03<oskari89>The amount of stuff is kind of much
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's mostly just wikipedia stuff
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>it gets tricky on some early vehicles
08:06<juzza1>pictures of 19th century vehicles are pretty hard to come by :P
08:06<juzza1>at least for finnish ones
08:07<juzza1>data too, but fortunately there are some books available
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>german railway history is pretty well documented
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>although i left out the really early period of 1835-1870
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09:09<LordAro>happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me...
09:09<frosch123>you missed starwars day
09:10<frosch123>obiwan :p
09:10<LordAro>i did indeed
09:10*LordAro blames his mother :L
09:11<LordAro>actually, the time is much closer to may 6th, rather than today, or yesterday
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10:47<Sacro>whoah
10:47<Lordmwa>good afternoon
10:47<Sacro>now then now then
10:48<Lordmwa>Would anyone be so kind as to briefly give me a hand regarding patching OTTD? I just have one error when compiling and i was wondering if it was a simple error that can easily be fixed or a complicated one - if complicated i shall leave it!
10:48<Sacro>Don't ask to ask, just ask
10:49<Lordmwa>Error 2 error C2065: 'STR_CONFIG_SETTING_TIMETABLE_ENABLE_SEPARATION' : undeclared identifier c:\users\james\desktop\new folder\objs\settings\table\settings.h 398 openttd
10:49<Lordmwa>thats the error
10:50<frosch123>you probably did not open the right "solution" file
10:50<frosch123>you should have a language project in the solution
10:51<Lordmwa>yes its open - just checking it now
10:51<frosch123>otoh, maybe the patch file misses the addition to src/lang/english.txt
10:53<Lordmwa>added STR_CONFIG_SETTING_TIMETABLE_ENABLE_SEPARATION :{LTBLUE}Enable automatic timetable separation: {ORANGE}{STRING1} to english.txt now at sacros suggestion
10:53<Lordmwa>just trying again now
10:54<Lordmwa>that has worked - thanks
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11:23<Eddi|zuHause>that should probably be STRING2 now
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>(and instead remove the orange)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>(that is, if you're trying to patch a newer revision)
11:26<andythenorth>there is going to be a problem with these new rivers at the spring (river source)
11:27<andythenorth>currently that's made by overlapping 2 opposite curves
11:27<@Alberth>:(
11:27<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4430/spring.png
11:27<andythenorth>I wonder if it can be special-cased
11:27<andythenorth>it's just some bits, right?
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause>why is that a problem, actually?
11:28<andythenorth>the yellow represents where grey river edge will show
11:28<andythenorth>so there will be a bizarre grey line
11:28<andythenorth>or I could drop the grey for that bit...
11:28<andythenorth>which will probably work fine?
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>or you just crop the sprites differently?
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11:29<andythenorth>can you think of a way to do that and still get the large curve?
11:29<andythenorth>if so, I'll use it
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how river shores are assembled
11:30<andythenorth>lots of layering
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>that is not an anwser to my question
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, it should not be too troublesome to add more sprites to the river specs
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>i certainly won't do that, though
11:37<andythenorth>I might be able to solve it by cheating
11:38<andythenorth>draw a tree :P
11:38<andythenorth>this is not far off, no? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4433/spring_fix.png
11:38<@Alberth>or a cliff :)
11:38<andythenorth>not properly shaded yet, but works?
11:39<@Alberth>looks like the right shape
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>the question is how will that interfere with the "normal" curve
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>it looks very asymmetric now
11:40<andythenorth>it is very asymmetric
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11:41<andythenorth>hmm
11:41<andythenorth>might be a kludge
11:42<frosch123>considering there are random bits, and thus a123 chains are resolved for every river tile anyway, it might be easiest to expose the water connection status via a variable
11:42*andythenorth feels it's too sunny for reading the river drawing code
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11:43<andythenorth>but I'm sure that the bits could be counted up and a different sprite used?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>so then, why is it ok to resolve this for rivers, but not for rails?
11:43<andythenorth>frosch123: this is openttd.grf btw, not some andythenorth.grf
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11:44<frosch123>who cares :)
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11:46<andythenorth>I should draw some snaking stream-river thing for the springs
11:46<andythenorth>it looks silly currently
11:47<andythenorth>fully formed river springs up in 1 tile
11:49<frosch123>you cannot distinguish begin and end of river
11:49<frosch123>if you really want to touch the R thingie, you are likely best of with some underground-tunnel-entrance-thingie
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>small streams as "objects"
11:50<oskari89>What was the max resolution for picture showing up on tt-forums?
11:50<oskari89>800x600?
11:51<andythenorth>frosch123: so can't do this? :D http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4436/better_spring_or_is_it.png
11:51<andythenorth>I don't mind not having to draw stuff
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>oskari89: there might be a kB limit as well
11:52<frosch123>andythenorth: just imagine how a lake would look like, which has only one tile at one end
11:52<andythenorth>like a lake with a spring feeding it? o_O
11:52<andythenorth>nah, nvm
11:52<oskari89>Have some neat screenshots here
11:53<oskari89>Ready to boost up Finnish Trainset thread
11:54<andythenorth>so we can't tell what is begin / end of river
11:55<andythenorth>but the bits on the tile know if it's a curve or a dead end?
11:55<andythenorth>so the overlapping issue with these new curves could be avoided?
11:56<alluke>yay
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's information-theoretically possible. just nobody has implemented it yet.
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12:12<alluke>@oskari89 guess its 640 width, height shouldnt matter
12:13<alluke>no, 800
12:13<frosch123>height doesn't matter? :p
12:13<frosch123>who is going to check whether that is right? :p
12:15<alluke>you can since i have never posted any screenies xD
12:15<alluke>i just thought that since you scroll the site anyway
12:16<andythenorth>so maybe I'll read the river drawing code later :P
12:16<andythenorth>it's time I learnt how the game works anyway :|
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12:41<alluke>du dun doon
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12:47*andythenorth wonders where river drawing code might be
12:49<andythenorth>found it
12:50<andythenorth>DrawWaterEdges
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12:52<andythenorth>kind of understand it, not very well
12:53<andythenorth>Switch for each corner. If certain bits found, draw some edges? Check neighbouring tile in certain direction, if doesn't contains water, draw corner piece?
12:53*andythenorth guessing
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: while you're there, the drawing code should treat MP_VOID tiles as if they were MP_WATER, to make rivers look like they flow in/out of the map edge
13:18<alluke>@oskari89 where are those screenies
13:18<oskari892>Just doing them
13:18<alluke>ah ok i thought you had them already
13:19<oskari892>Good things have to be waited ;)
13:23<alluke>true
13:24<alluke>and really good things have to be waited for 8 years
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13:25<alluke>btw
13:25<alluke>what are those valmet m2200 engines
13:28<alluke>no, 12 years
13:36<oskari892>Those are these: http://tve4.1g.fi/kuvat/Sekalaista/Mainokset/Dr16/08.jpg
13:36<oskari892>A line locomotive version of Dr16, fictional of course
13:37<oskari892>And also the M4000E1 electric locomotive is done
13:38<oskari892>Later those will be disabled by default and enabled by switch, if wanted
13:39<oskari892>Fictional but plans were ready for those, so semi-fictional :P
13:43<alluke>will the testing stuff go under the switch too
13:43<alluke>like dm11
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25219 /trunk/src/lang (gaelic.txt galician.txt) (2013-05-05 17:45:13 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>galician - 37 changes by Michi
13:45<@DorpsGek>gaelic - 20 changes by GunChleoc
13:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: nice point about map edge
13:47<andythenorth>no idea how to fix that :)
13:48<alluke>im sure hell freezes before andy stops talking aboout rivers
13:51<oskari892>Alluke: not since it has been in Finnish rails, even a little time :P
13:51<alluke>still
13:51<oskari892>Doesn't bother me at all
13:51<oskari892>But on the topic
13:51<oskari892>How many screenshots i should post
13:52<alluke>all the best ones
13:52<alluke>how many are there
13:52<alluke>if you want i can preview em and pick my favorites
13:52<oskari892>I have 10
13:52<alluke>doesnt sound too much
13:52<alluke>post all
13:53<oskari892>That leads to quadruple post :P
13:53<alluke>doh
13:53<oskari892>I think i put three first
13:53<alluke>pick top 3
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13:54<alluke>btw
13:54<alluke>the dm11 is too light
13:54<alluke>it should weigh 46 tons
13:54<alluke>http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dm11
13:55<oskari892>Ok, to be fixed
13:59<@planetmaker>good evening
14:01<alluke>evening
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: nah, andythenorth traditionally has a rather short attention span, so he'll find something else to focus on soon :)
14:13<alluke>but he has been focused on rivers for (over?) a year now
14:13<alluke>like an autism
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>short attention span doesn't mean it can't be recurring :)
14:15<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it shouldn't be difficult, just find the place where it checks whether an adjacent tile is MP_WATER and add a check for MP_VOID there as well
14:20<oskari892>Screenshots anyone?
14:20<oskari892>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21457&p=1076075#p1076075
14:22<@planetmaker>nice :-)
14:24<oskari892>planetmaker: Thanks :)
14:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: bit harsh. More like a high-frequency attention span
14:24<andythenorth>also my ignore list grew
14:25<__ln___>that kinnula station building is maybe a little too bright, it looks like las vegas.
14:25<oskari892>__ln___: Maybe, could be adjusted later when redrawn
14:25<alluke>whats with all that concrete around the stations
14:25<andythenorth>also it's totally unmotivating to work on something when dickheads show up and throw peanuts
14:26<andythenorth>not eddi
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14:26<alluke>and id put chips mud-platforms to the sand pit
14:26<oskari892>alluke: that is gravel
14:26<__ln___>alluke: http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/
14:28<alluke>oh cmon
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14:29<oskari892>alluke: Maybe you could do better screenshots? :P
14:30<alluke>thought that too
14:30<alluke>i can try :P
14:30<alluke>i have one fts testgame
14:30<oskari892>Use the latest one
14:31<oskari892>(FTS)
14:31<alluke>yay new one
14:31<alluke>whats changed
14:31<oskari892>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/finnishtrainset/nightlies/r99/
14:33<oskari892>allukke: tractive efforts corrected, green Edm, refitting Dv12, etc...
14:33<alluke>ok ill check it out
14:33<oskari892>You can replace it in game but be aware
14:33<alluke>what about the dmg7 issue i posted
14:34<alluke>i have replaced all the previous ones :P
14:34<alluke>some trains get fucket but get fixed when i rebuy them
14:34<alluke>lmao
14:35<juzza1>didnt make the dmg7 yet but will do later
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14:36<alluke>my 2xdv12 - 7xeil - eifet turned into tk3 - sv1s - sr3 :P
14:36<juzza1>i added a lot of new trains (all of which are hidden because there are no sprites) so the ids are messed up again
14:36<alluke>np
14:36<alluke>ill jsut rebuy it and its good again
14:37<alluke>whats the point in refitting between series?
14:38<oskari892>Well you can decide yourserlf :P
14:38<juzza1>different sounds and gfx
14:39<oskari892>Yes
14:39<oskari892>Detail <3
14:39<alluke>hah
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14:40<alluke>btw
14:40<alluke>lower fots mail capacity to 50 or 40 bags
14:41<alluke>otherwise its too competitive with pot
14:41<oskari892>Hmm, it should be modern replacement of Pot
14:41<oskari892>Or work like it
14:42<oskari892>(when necessary)
14:43<alluke>is it possible to make it carry pax and mail
14:43<alluke>like planes do
14:43<juzza1>unfortunately not
14:44<oskari892>You can put two of those in a train and refit other on other cargo
14:45<oskari892>Seems that i must double-track some line
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14:56<alluke>but fots should have less capacity since it has the passenger compartment
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15:05<oskari89>Don't know if that is really necessary, but if, 50 bags could be ok
15:05<oskari89>I have stations always flooding on mail
15:05<oskari89>Some extra capacity is always welcome
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15:14<alluke>thats what the pot is for ;)
15:14<alluke>if you know what i mean
15:14<oskari89>But then it has lower speed
15:14<alluke>yes
15:14<oskari89>Limits consist to 140 km/h
15:14<alluke>you have to pick either faster or bigger
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15:55<Wolf01>'night
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16:43<alluke>i hate the dev.ottdcoop
16:43<alluke>itsso messy
16:43<alluke>and you cant edit/delete your messages
16:45<Supercheese>?
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17:23<frosch123>night
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20:08<maravilla>Hey
20:08<Supercheese>salve
20:09<maravilla>OpenTTD rules!
20:10<Supercheese>it does indeed
20:11<maravilla>I don't play it for the efficiency or the whole railroad engineering, I just like the competition
20:12<maravilla>sadly that's a game killer, because it gets easy to be #1 in little time in single player
20:12<Supercheese>people often use various newgrfs to make things harder, or play multiplayer for interpersonal competetion
20:13<maravilla>or to amass a fortune that just feeds in itself
20:13<Supercheese>of course, making things harder for you also makes things harder for the AI
20:13<Supercheese>if you use AIs
20:13<maravilla>Oh yeah, multiplayer is a great feature. It's long too D:
20:14<maravilla>Yeah some AIs that very self sustainable
20:16<maravilla>-that
20:18<maravilla>sometimes I wish the game had more of the bad-roots-of-capitalism side of things
20:18<maravilla>like Pizza Tycoon did. Ever played that game?
20:18<Supercheese>Hah, I never played it but I saw it a lot back in the day
20:19<Supercheese>OTTD goal scripts are nice I hear
20:19<Supercheese>I really should try one some time
20:20<maravilla>goal scripts?
20:20<Supercheese>yeah, like "transport certain amounts of stuff in certain timeframes"
20:21<Supercheese>or "feed towns with cargo so they can grow"
20:21<Supercheese>oversimplified descriptions but still
20:21<maravilla>Aha
20:21<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62212
20:21<Supercheese>for example that
20:21<maravilla>Like more complex subsidies?
20:21<Supercheese>without any rewards other than "you win", essentially yeah
20:23<Supercheese>Also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62556
20:24<maravilla>Hmm, cool
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20:38<maravilla>Has anyone ever experimented with a politics system for OpenTTD? Having borders (therefore countries), states (as in governments of those countries), taxes, multiple economies, etc. Kinda like in Railroad Tycoon
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21:39<Eddi|zuHause>i once had a somewhat working prototype of making borders with a voronoi partition of the cities
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>the idea was that you have (depending on map size/amount of cities) several administrative layers (country, province, ...) which each have their own local economy
21:40<Eddi|zuHause>but i didn't get that far
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---Logclosed Mon May 06 00:00:52 2013