| --- | Log | opened Tue May 07 00:00:53 2013 |
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| 01:00 | <MNIM> | Do eeeet |
| 01:01 | <Supercheese> | I've got a model in sketchup, I'll make renders in a few days |
| 01:01 | <Supercheese> | got/downloaded/acquired |
| 01:04 | <Supercheese> | also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_V-12 |
| 01:04 | <Supercheese> | 40,200 kg payload |
| 01:06 | <Supercheese> | or 44,205 kg, even |
| 01:06 | <Supercheese> | two different numbers, hmm |
| 01:07 | <Supercheese> | wikipedia seems to disagree with itself |
| 01:12 | <@Rubidium> | seems like two different conversions from lb to kg |
| 01:12 | <@Rubidium> | as the number in lb is the same for both |
| 01:12 | <Supercheese> | The FAI apparently doesn't recognize that record though |
| 01:12 | <Supercheese> | only the ≈ 30,000 kg one |
| 01:12 | <Supercheese> | 31,030 kg |
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| 01:13 | <Supercheese> | http://www.fai.org/fai-record-file/?recordId=9938 |
| 01:14 | <Supercheese> | time to edit |
| 01:15 | <Supercheese> | Oh nevermind |
| 01:15 | <Supercheese> | http://www.fai.org/fai-record-file/?recordId=9917 |
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| 03:26 | <Nothing4You> | which year should i start in if i want to use the earliest possible year that allows me to build some transport? |
| 03:29 | <@planetmaker> | depends. 1940 |
| 03:30 | <Nothing4You> | depends on? |
| 03:30 | <@planetmaker> | choice of NewGRFs |
| 03:30 | <@planetmaker> | with the right choice you likely can start successfully mid 19ths century |
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| 03:31 | <Supercheese> | Or horse-drawn stuff from the 1600s |
| 03:31 | <Supercheese> | for those people who like sllooooooow transport :P |
| 03:31 | <Nothing4You> | horses? that sounds interesting |
| 03:31 | <@planetmaker> | yes... but I found the horse carriages insufficient to keep up with my transport needs |
| 03:31 | <Supercheese> | also sailing ships |
| 03:31 | <Supercheese> | which carry lots more |
| 03:32 | <Nothing4You> | kk |
| 03:32 | <Nothing4You> | btw i found some typo in the wiki |
| 03:33 | <@planetmaker> | it's a wiki. Please correct it |
| 03:33 | <Nothing4You> | http://wiki.openttd.org/Maglev says "In game first Maglev train (Lev1 'Leviathan' or Wizzowow Rocketeer) is available in 2022.", http://wiki.openttd.org/Lev1_%27Leviathan%27 says Designed 2020 |
| 03:33 | <Supercheese> | the wiki could use a great deal of correcting |
| 03:33 | <Nothing4You> | i don't know which one is the correct one, i would have to try |
| 03:35 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 28855 / 365 + 1920 |
| 03:35 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 1999.05479452 |
| 03:35 | <@planetmaker> | hm |
| 03:35 | <@planetmaker> | ah |
| 03:36 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 36891 / 365 + 1920 |
| 03:36 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 2021.07123288 |
| 03:36 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 36891 / 365.25 + 1920 |
| 03:36 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 2021.00205339 |
| 03:36 | <@planetmaker> | looks like 2021 :-P |
| 03:36 | <Supercheese> | split the difference ;) |
| 03:36 | <Supercheese> | although the random-added stuff means 2022 is not unlikely |
| 03:37 | <@planetmaker> | yup. but 2020 is impossible ;-) |
| 03:37 | <Supercheese> | aye |
| 03:37 | <Nothing4You> | so should i write 2021 or 2022 then? |
| 03:37 | <Nothing4You> | or 2021-2022? |
| 03:37 | <@planetmaker> | 2021 |
| 03:37 | <Nothing4You> | kk |
| 03:38 | <Nothing4You> | how about the http://wiki.openttd.org/Wizzowow_Rocketeer then? |
| 03:38 | <@planetmaker> | the 0 ... 2 years random change for introduction is not by design of the vehicle but by design of the game |
| 03:38 | <Nothing4You> | also, where did you get that values for calculation from? |
| 03:38 | <Nothing4You> | kk |
| 03:39 | <@planetmaker> | I looked at the source code http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/872f5d8f257d/src/table/engines.h#l182 |
| 03:39 | <Nothing4You> | ah |
| 03:40 | <@planetmaker> | the default vehicles' properties are all defined there. Stupid as that is from a design POV |
| 03:41 | <Nothing4You> | the base_intro, right? |
| 03:42 | <@planetmaker> | yes. In days since 1.1.1920 |
| 03:42 | <Nothing4You> | kk |
| 03:42 | <Nothing4You> | @calc 36891 / 365.25 + 1920 |
| 03:42 | <@DorpsGek> | Nothing4You: 2021.00205339 |
| 03:42 | <Nothing4You> | so i'll adjust both to 2021 |
| 03:46 | <Nothing4You> | @calc 39447 / 365.25 + 1920 |
| 03:46 | <@DorpsGek> | Nothing4You: 2028 |
| 03:47 | <Nothing4You> | @calc 42004 / 365.25 + 1920 |
| 03:47 | <@DorpsGek> | Nothing4You: 2035.00068446 |
| 03:47 | <Nothing4You> | @calc 42735 / 365.25 + 1920 |
| 03:47 | <@DorpsGek> | Nothing4You: 2037.00205339 |
| 03:47 | <Nothing4You> | Lev4 is also wrong then |
| 03:54 | <Supercheese> | good night |
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| 07:40 | <V453000> | hm, where can I find on the tt-wiki how to make transparent/semitransparent sprites? |
| 07:42 | <@peter1138> | it's mentioned in the sprite layout stuff |
| 07:42 | <V453000> | ah, thanks |
| 07:46 | <@planetmaker> | http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RecolorSprites#recolor-table <-- see the 'glass effect' recolour sprite |
| 07:48 | <V453000> | :o |
| 07:54 | <V453000> | is there any example in nml? |
| 07:54 | <V453000> | cant imagine how the usage of this looks like |
| 07:55 | <frosch123> | with 32bpp you can also do alpha channel |
| 07:55 | <V453000> | I just tried writing down spriteset_name * 257 00 0x322 |
| 07:56 | <frosch123> | http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Spritelayout <- it's the recolour_mode thingie |
| 07:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there's a recolour{} block |
| 07:57 | <V453000> | and the recolour block is put in item like graphics block? |
| 07:57 | <V453000> | or is it sprite_name { recolour{} } |
| 07:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i used recolouring once, but i forgot |
| 07:57 | <frosch123> | http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Recolour_sprites <- you should be able to just put them inside a spriteset |
| 07:58 | <frosch123> | anyway, you cannot use any of this stuff for vehicles :p |
| 07:58 | <@peter1138> | dbsetxl does it |
| 07:58 | <V453000> | didnt see that one |
| 07:58 | <@peter1138> | though with nfo of course |
| 07:58 | <@peter1138> | wait |
| 07:58 | <@peter1138> | newstatsw i mean :S |
| 07:58 | <V453000> | what? :d well I wanted to use it for rails now |
| 07:58 | <@peter1138> | you can't do that with rails |
| 07:59 | <V453000> | asdf |
| 07:59 | <frosch123> | with vehicles you can only do normal recolouring, no glass-stuff |
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| 07:59 | <@peter1138> | you can do 32bpp alpha |
| 07:59 | <frosch123> | unless you use 32bpp, then you have a alpha channel |
| 07:59 | <frosch123> | but that's not quite the same |
| 08:00 | <@peter1138> | inded |
| 08:00 | <@peter1138> | e |
| 08:00 | <V453000> | meh it was proobably a bad idea anyway :) |
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| 08:16 | <@planetmaker> | lalala ... trunk image: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/test.png |
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| 08:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | now get a proper artist on it :p |
| 08:17 | <@planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, all river tiles there, new and old were created on my machine ;-) |
| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what i always wondered: why isn't it possible to set 90° turns for ships and trains separately? |
| 08:17 | <@planetmaker> | but I can't do it in 1 hour :-P |
| 08:18 | <@planetmaker> | and I totally would not mind someone stepping up |
| 08:18 | <V453000> | Fun :D ordering printing here locally is 300% more expensive than ordering it from germany, including transportation |
| 08:18 | <@planetmaker> | lol |
| 08:21 | <V453000> | also holy shit at diagonal rivers :D |
| 08:23 | <@planetmaker> | coding that can be lengthy :-) |
| 08:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | just generate it :p |
| 08:24 | <@planetmaker> | then the drawing will be lengthy :-P |
| 08:25 | <@planetmaker> | drawing will be the most lengthy thing there anyway |
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| 08:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you only have 2^8 cases :) |
| 08:26 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 08:26 | <@planetmaker> | that many is not needed really |
| 08:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (times random states) |
| 08:27 | <@planetmaker> | But then multiply that with terrain types as well |
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| 08:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Windows 8 is the biggest economical failure since 'New Coke'" |
| 08:30 | <@peter1138> | everyone i know who's tried it loves it |
| 08:31 | <__ln___> | peter1138: everyone in an empty set |
| 08:31 | <@peter1138> | :( |
| 08:32 | <stuf> | dunno, win8 has been just fine for me |
| 08:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, on the one windows 8 i helped set up, i immediately installed the classic shell |
| 08:35 | <stuf> | I don't really mind the start screen, since the functionality there I usually use is pretty much the same as in win7 |
| 08:35 | <stuf> | besides, win8 program indexing seems to be working better, since there isn't that pesky wait time as in win7 when opening up the start menu and searching for something |
| 08:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i haven't actually used win8 |
| 08:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or win7 |
| 08:37 | <@planetmaker> | windows7 is quite ok. But still... it's windows. It misses xterm :-P |
| 08:37 | <stuf> | but as long as the GUI isn't as much of an atrocity as gimp's (or any piece of adobe software), i'm fine with it |
| 08:38 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r25230 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2013-05-07 12:38:43 UTC) |
| 08:38 | <@DorpsGek> | -Feature: [NewGRF] Expose sprite base of foundation and shore sprites via Action D Game Variables. |
| 08:39 | <@planetmaker> | \o/ |
| 08:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there you have the idea you searched for :p |
| 08:44 | <frosch123> | it's an ancient idea |
| 08:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | lots of ideas are ancient |
| 08:49 | <Nothing4You> | termite is much better than xterm |
| 08:49 | <Nothing4You> | i only have xterm installed for one reason |
| 08:50 | <Nothing4You> | monodevelop doesn't work without it |
| 08:50 | <@planetmaker> | that judgement sounds poor |
| 08:52 | <frosch123> | well, isn't it more important what shell you run inside the terminal? :p |
| 08:53 | <@peter1138> | http://www.compuphase.com/software_termite.htm |
| 08:53 | <@peter1138> | what, that? |
| 08:54 | <frosch123> | looks more like kermit for windows |
| 08:54 | <@peter1138> | i don't think that's what Nothing4You means though |
| 08:55 | <frosch123> | "kermit" is an awesome software name btw. more people should use such names :) |
| 08:55 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
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| 09:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | is it green and on pushing a button turns red? :p |
| 09:00 | <frosch123> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_%28protocol%29 |
| 09:01 | <NGC3982> | :D |
| 09:01 | <frosch123> | my brother used that around 1990 trying to set up a "lan" over a distance of 800 meters |
| 09:01 | <frosch123> | across some grass plain to the house of a friend |
| 09:01 | <frosch123> | using some rs232 derivate with heigher voltage levels |
| 09:02 | <NGC3982> | On what kind of cable? |
| 09:02 | <frosch123> | but it did not succeed with anything faster than 600 boud, so it failed for gaming |
| 09:02 | <frosch123> | cannot remember, but if it was that long it cannot be something specially suited |
| 09:03 | <NGC3982> | Doesn't the rs232 standard say that capacitance is too high after 50 feet or something? |
| 09:03 | <frosch123> | likely some random wire with low profile |
| 09:03 | <frosch123> | stuff you use in electric model train networks to wire the signals and such :p |
| 09:03 | <NGC3982> | Oh. |
| 09:03 | <NGC3982> | Hehe, trains. |
| 09:03 | <frosch123> | it was not rs232 |
| 09:03 | <frosch123> | but something similar with higher volatage |
| 09:03 | <NGC3982> | I see |
| 09:04 | <frosch123> | maybe it was even an early telephone modem or similiar |
| 09:04 | <frosch123> | something they threw out of the university at that time :) |
| 09:04 | <Nothing4You> | the termite i'm talking about is https://github.com/thestinger/termite |
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| 09:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | wouldn't you rather use BNC cables over such distance? (assuming this was before twisted pair came around) |
| 09:08 | <frosch123> | sure, if you have a 800m bnc cable around |
| 09:08 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 09:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | although that may also become troublesome beyond 300m-ish |
| 09:09 | <frosch123> | yeah, that it even worked at all :) |
| 09:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i vaguely remember my school had trouble from one end of the building to the other |
| 09:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | now, one could look up the size of the standardized east german school building... |
| 09:11 | <frosch123> | if it was built after 1950? |
| 09:12 | <__ln___> | 800m bnc (isn't that a connector, so coaxial) cable costs a bit. |
| 09:12 | <heffer> | hmm standard east german school? box shaped! |
| 09:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the H-shaped standard building :) |
| 09:13 | <NGC3982> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uxsFglz2ig |
| 09:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | construction around 1970-ish |
| 09:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (actually the building was only half of the H) |
| 09:14 | <heffer> | ultra wide T shape? |
| 09:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | something like that, yes |
| 09:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | https://maps.google.de/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.484961,11.939381&spn=0.002719,0.003771&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6 |
| 09:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the building doesn't exist anymore, though |
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| 09:33 | <__ln___> | oh no, are they destroying valuable architecture? |
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| 09:49 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r25231 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2013-05-07 13:49:18 UTC) |
| 09:49 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix (r25227): Also update infrastructure counts. (adf88) |
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| 10:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | __ln___: they even get EU funding for it |
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| 11:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "IT Crowd: Final episode will be produced" |
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| 13:10 | <@planetmaker> | V453000, with the tunnels, there's two places where the overlay sprites (the top) doesn't cover a single pixel. I indicated place in http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/tunnels.png |
| 13:11 | <@planetmaker> | V453000, you can see that when you highlight the tile with, say, the tunnel build tool or bulldozer or so. Then a coloured pixel remains there |
| 13:14 | <V453000> | very strange |
| 13:14 | <V453000> | I took them from the landscape |
| 13:14 | <V453000> | can you link me to the used land sprites to be sure? |
| 13:15 | <@planetmaker> | try opengfx nightly |
| 13:15 | <V453000> | well sure, I can see what is wrong |
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| 13:15 | <V453000> | but if I took land sprites, it should behave the same way as sloped land |
| 13:15 | <V453000> | so apparently the ones I used were wrong |
| 13:16 | <@planetmaker> | maybe previous ones have that issue already... dunno, didn't check :D |
| 13:17 | <V453000> | but then landscape wouldh have such issue too |
| 13:17 | <V453000> | where can I find the used landscape sprites? |
| 13:18 | <V453000> | it is easy, all I need to do is to replace the landscape layer ... but I need the correct one to do that |
| 13:20 | <@planetmaker> | the rail tunnels have the same issue |
| 13:22 | <@planetmaker> | in ogfx-landscape repo: |
| 13:22 | <@planetmaker> | src/gfx/ogfx-terrain.png |
| 13:22 | <@planetmaker> | that should contain most ground sprites |
| 13:22 | <@planetmaker> | I won't bet my life on 'all' though :-) |
| 13:24 | <@planetmaker> | hm, do I dare make ogfx-landscape compatible with trunk only? :D |
| 13:25 | <V453000> | xD |
| 13:25 | <@planetmaker> | http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/d12e7865224c <-- for object ground tiles :-) |
| 13:26 | <V453000> | hmm yeah ogfx-terrain is where I got them from |
| 13:27 | <V453000> | ogfx-terrain is gridless there though, isnt it |
| 13:29 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 13:30 | <V453000> | your screenshot has them with grid, is the problem appearing in both cases? |
| 13:30 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 13:31 | <@planetmaker> | If you took the tunnel sprites from opengfx somewhere you'll have that issue, I think |
| 13:32 | <@planetmaker> | you might want to compare the front (lower) slopes of the sprites of those with the normal sloped ground tile. Maybe there's a pixel difference somewhere? |
| 13:32 | <V453000> | I just do not understand how can there be a shape mismatch if I just duplicated the sloped land sprites |
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| 13:32 | <V453000> | I cloned them from the ground tiles, not tunnel sprites |
| 13:32 | <V453000> | it is ground sprite + tunel layer + road layer |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | Only the sprite without the road has this issue; the sprite which is drawn on the vehicles |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | not the tunnel ground sprite |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | I would think |
| 13:35 | <V453000> | their shape is exactly the same :s |
| 13:35 | <@planetmaker> | hm, strange then |
| 13:35 | <V453000> | minus the "missing" part ofc |
| 13:37 | <V453000> | ha, found 1 pixel actually |
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| 13:38 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 13:38 | <@Alberth> | evenink |
| 13:39 | <@planetmaker> | oddink |
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| 13:40 | <V453000> | is the issue only 1 pixel though? |
| 13:41 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 13:41 | <V453000> | o |
| 13:42 | <frosch123> | don't lick the sprites |
| 13:42 | <frosch123> | they may lose pixels |
| 13:42 | <@planetmaker> | *schlurp* |
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| 13:43 | <@Terkhen> | hello |
| 13:43 | <@planetmaker> | hi Terkhen |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r25232 /trunk/src/lang (german.txt lithuanian.txt) (2013-05-07 17:45:13 UTC) |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | german - 9 changes by Jogio |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | lithuanian - 1 changes by Stabilitronas |
| 13:50 | <V453000> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5555 |
| 13:50 | <V453000> | sec it is uploading :) |
| 13:50 | <V453000> | nowwww |
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| 13:51 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 13:54 | <@planetmaker> | lol. I also found the grid issue ;-) |
| 13:54 | <@planetmaker> | simply referencing the gridded version of the file :-P |
| 13:54 | <V453000> | :) |
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| 13:57 | <@planetmaker> | NoCAB started to populate my test map :D |
| 13:57 | <V453000> | lol |
| 13:57 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 13:58 | <@planetmaker> | hi Wolf01 |
| 13:59 | <@planetmaker> | hm, V453000 ... err no 8bpp palette ? |
| 14:00 | <V453000> | oh damn |
| 14:00 | <V453000> | ye |
| 14:00 | <V453000> | will do |
| 14:05 | <V453000> | k, there again |
| 14:05 | <V453000> | guess you might want to delete the other six :P |
| 14:05 | <@Alberth> | hi Wolf01 |
| 14:05 | <@planetmaker> | they have time stamps :-) |
| 14:09 | <@planetmaker> | http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/ogfx-landscape.tar <-- result @ V453000 |
| 14:10 | <@planetmaker> | looks very nice to me :-) |
| 14:13 | <@planetmaker> | V453000, the psd source does not change, it's just a different export? |
| 14:30 | <V453000> | it changes by 8 pixels ... :) |
| 14:30 | <V453000> | palette changes only on export |
| 14:47 | <V453000> | result looks good to me :) |
| 14:47 | <V453000> | no fat road parameter though :P |
| 14:47 | <V453000> | *fat tunnel |
| 14:48 | <@planetmaker> | so totally untrue :-P |
| 14:48 | <@planetmaker> | just brot is slow ;-) |
| 14:48 | <V453000> | :D |
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| 15:19 | <George> | when I copy the train why does it copies the age? |
| 15:20 | <George> | the train has cargo_subtype_text CB, that returns several value first 10 days of life and fails later |
| 15:21 | <George> | I have a train that was refited |
| 15:21 | <George> | when I copy it I get the train not refited (like CB fails) |
| 15:22 | <Supercheese> | which variable are you using? age_in_days? |
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| 15:22 | <Supercheese> | or not that at all? |
| 15:22 | <George> | if I pause a game, build a new train, refit it and then copy the new train, the copy is refited |
| 15:22 | <George> | but if i wait 11 days and copy it again, the new copy IS NOT refited |
| 15:22 | <George> | why? |
| 15:23 | <Supercheese> | very odd |
| 15:23 | <George> | Yes |
| 15:23 | <Supercheese> | does the subtype callback use any variables like age_in_days ? |
| 15:23 | <George> | switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, _4te10s_cargo_subtype_text, |
| 15:23 | <George> | cargo_subtype + ((age_in_days >= 30) && (num_vehs_in_consist >= 3)) * 2 |
| 15:23 | <George> | ) |
| 15:23 | <George> | { |
| 15:23 | <George> | 0: string(STR_REFIT_HEAD); |
| 15:23 | <George> | 1: string(STR_REFIT_BUSTER); |
| 15:23 | <George> | return CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT; |
| 15:23 | <George> | } |
| 15:23 | <Supercheese> | I recall the age_in_days variable being very weird when I tried to use it |
| 15:24 | <__ln___> | how did i end up in the pastebin? |
| 15:24 | <George> | And what to do? |
| 15:25 | <Supercheese> | I'm not sure, someone more qualified than I seems necessary |
| 15:26 | <Supercheese> | could check the source though |
| 15:27 | <@planetmaker> | that's a very weired condition for the cargo subtype text :-) |
| 15:28 | <George> | And? |
| 15:28 | <Supercheese> | irrespective of weirdness, I suspect there's something odd with the age variable in OTTD |
| 15:28 | <Supercheese> | OTTD + NML anyway |
| 15:29 | <frosch123> | when cloning or autoreplacing or autorefitting or whatever, ottd picks the subtype with the same text |
| 15:29 | <@planetmaker> | I don't know the callbacks... ^ |
| 15:29 | <frosch123> | if you change the text over time you totally break it |
| 15:29 | <frosch123> | can't help you with that |
| 15:29 | <frosch123> | subtype is not meant to change over time |
| 15:30 | <frosch123> | subtypes are not a general display random data thingie |
| 15:30 | <Supercheese> | It still begs the question why the 10 days bit, when the code only is supposed to change at 30 days |
| 15:31 | <George> | a question wwas asked while the code was changed |
| 15:31 | <George> | just copied the undone code |
| 15:31 | <George> | because the code with 10 days and without consist length chek did not work |
| 15:32 | <Supercheese> | I guess the conclusion is that cargo subtype should only change when refitting, and not due to other factors, eh |
| 15:32 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 15:33 | <George> | frosch123: And how can code that the cargo subtype text would be uncanged inside the train? |
| 15:33 | <George> | so onle a single loco can change the subtype text |
| 15:33 | <George> | and then be placed in the consist& |
| 15:34 | <George> | ? |
| 15:35 | <George> | what I want to do: |
| 15:35 | <frosch123> | maybe use the start stop check |
| 15:35 | <frosch123> | or just leave it to the player |
| 15:35 | <George> | how can that help? |
| 15:36 | <George> | What I try to code: |
| 15:36 | <frosch123> | no idea, i don't understand the intention in the first place |
| 15:36 | <frosch123> | what's the point of all these conditions? are you coding a railroad history quiz? |
| 15:36 | <George> | A player buys a loco, refits it (to boosted variant) and attaches it |
| 15:36 | <frosch123> | the player, who builds 100 valid trains, wins? |
| 15:36 | <George> | it can be attached only in a special place of a train |
| 15:37 | <George> | in case it would become refited inside consist the train would be brocken |
| 15:37 | <Supercheese> | why the age in days check then? |
| 15:38 | <George> | Yes, I build a historical train |
| 15:38 | <@planetmaker> | uh... |
| 15:38 | <Supercheese> | shouldn't the consist check work by itself? |
| 15:38 | <@planetmaker> | George, make the historical consist one articulated vehicle |
| 15:38 | <@planetmaker> | so one-click buy. Done |
| 15:38 | <@planetmaker> | and make the other trains work no-matter-what |
| 15:39 | <Supercheese> | alternatively that, or another easier way |
| 15:39 | <Supercheese> | easier than current, I think planetmaker's idea is easiest overall |
| 15:40 | <George> | Sorry, but I'm not looking for a way not to code the feature :) I'm looking for a way to code it |
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| 15:40 | <George> | From the historical point of view in the later years these trains were split and used as parts |
| 15:40 | <Supercheese> | Still, I don't understand the age check |
| 15:41 | <George> | so articulated vehicle is not a solution |
| 15:41 | <Supercheese> | Well, you could also code it as a separate engine and disable its power/whatnot when it's not in a certain place in the consist |
| 15:41 | <Supercheese> | that would also let you set independent intro/retire dates |
| 15:42 | <George> | Yes, I can code it on a separate ID |
| 15:42 | <George> | But I need exect days of build feature then |
| 15:42 | <frosch123> | you can make the back part draw depending on the front part |
| 15:42 | <frosch123> | the japanese trains do that |
| 15:43 | <frosch123> | you refit the front to a specific series/colour |
| 15:43 | <frosch123> | and the other vehicles in the chain take it from the front |
| 15:43 | <frosch123> | that allows easy moving of vehicles around in the depot |
| 15:43 | <frosch123> | without the need to refit every single vehicle |
| 15:43 | <@planetmaker> | good point |
| 15:43 | <George> | This is the way it was coded before |
| 15:43 | <George> | very bad idea |
| 15:44 | <Supercheese> | bad because...? |
| 15:44 | <frosch123> | anyway, japanese trains are currently somewhat broken in trunk, so test it with 1.3 :) |
| 15:44 | <George> | because the train part magicaly transforms when being attached |
| 15:44 | <Supercheese> | as opposed to magically transform when refit> |
| 15:44 | <Supercheese> | ?* |
| 15:45 | <George> | that is why I'm asking about haw to prevent refit problem on train coping |
| 15:45 | <George> | how |
| 15:46 | <Supercheese> | well, several suggestions have been fielded |
| 15:46 | <George> | Sorry? |
| 15:47 | <George> | currently I saw only 2 - code on the other ID and not to code |
| 15:47 | <George> | Missed something? |
| 15:47 | <@planetmaker> | yes. draw vehicle depending on front vehicle |
| 15:48 | <George> | it is not a solution |
| 15:48 | <George> | It is an issue (bug) I'm trying to fix) |
| 15:48 | <@planetmaker> | honestly, Japanese trains is one of my favourite sets: Ease of use, nice choice of vehicles |
| 15:49 | <George> | xUSSR set would not be easy to use :))) |
| 15:49 | <Supercheese> | wouldn't removing the age check help? |
| 15:49 | <Supercheese> | I still don't know why that's there |
| 15:50 | <George> | Supercheese: No, it does not work either |
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| 15:50 | <Supercheese> | Hm |
| 15:50 | <George> | just because of the resons frosch123 wrote above |
| 15:51 | <@planetmaker> | what's the point to allow refitting vehicles one-by-one but then disallowing to assemble trains from them? |
| 15:51 | <@planetmaker> | that's what I understood how this is going to be used... |
| 15:51 | <George> | because it is checked with CB 1D and allows only sertan combinations of locos |
| 15:52 | <George> | with refit inside consist it would become broken |
| 15:52 | <@planetmaker> | sorry, that reads like "the wall is green because I painted it green" |
| 15:53 | <George> | historical set is historical |
| 15:53 | <George> | Someone wrote the history already |
| 15:53 | <George> | I can repat in code and not repeat |
| 15:53 | <George> | there are no other solutions |
| 15:53 | <@planetmaker> | a historical set should only allow articulated vehicles, so that only the vehicles like they were built then, can be built |
| 15:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | George: what frosch123 said is that it runs the text callback for both existing and new vehicle, it fails for the existing vehicle, so the new one can't take the existing refit |
| 15:53 | <@planetmaker> | no refit. no nothing |
| 15:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | George: so the "solution" is to make the callback in a way that doesn't fail with the existing vehicle |
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| 15:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (at least that's how i understand it) |
| 15:55 | <George> | that means use other ID |
| 15:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or implement "vehicle views" that are set on purchase and can't be changed afterwards |
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| 15:57 | <George> | Eddi|zuHause: and how are they set on purchase? |
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| 15:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | view selection buttons like for stations/objects/... |
| 15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | MB had a mockup somewhere |
| 15:58 | <George> | and where are they for trains? |
| 15:58 | <Supercheese> | source code patch |
| 15:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | they are not implemented yet |
| 15:58 | <Supercheese> | not really a good suggestion for a newgrf author :S |
| 15:59 | <@planetmaker> | cb36 with property 25 might help there |
| 16:01 | <@planetmaker> | or maybe not |
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| 16:02 | <George> | Eddi|zuHause: and how would I choose what to set to prop 25? |
| 16:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i have no idea what prop25 is |
| 16:03 | <@Rubidium> | some californian law to vote on? |
| 16:03 | <George> | Eddi|zuHause: sorry, the question was to planetmaker |
| 16:03 | <@planetmaker> | I can't know what cases you need distinguish or so. |
| 16:04 | <@planetmaker> | but looking of where it can be queried it likely is useless anyway |
| 16:04 | <Supercheese> | hah, ballot measures :P |
| 16:04 | <George> | currently I try to choose by refit optin (they are named so the player knows what he selects) |
| 16:05 | <@planetmaker> | choose what by refit option? |
| 16:05 | <George> | is it boosted or not |
| 16:06 | <@planetmaker> | good. So once refit to that, it's fine. It has a cargo sub-type. No need to further check for it except in the can-be-attached callback? |
| 16:08 | <George> | yes |
| 16:08 | <George> | but if a player refits it |
| 16:08 | <George> | then attaches it |
| 16:08 | <George> | and than refits again |
| 16:08 | <George> | we get a wrong locos order |
| 16:09 | <@planetmaker> | disallow refit in that case |
| 16:09 | <George> | because CB 1D is not recalled on refit |
| 16:09 | <George> | planetmaker: how? |
| 16:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there is a refit callback |
| 16:09 | <@planetmaker> | ^ |
| 16:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | where you can check position in consist and current and future refit subtype |
| 16:10 | <George> | yes and f I fail it in consist a copy of a train gets defaul value instead of refited value |
| 16:10 | <Supercheese> | Oh yeah, I did that for fake subways |
| 16:10 | <Supercheese> | check the difference between current and proposed subtype |
| 16:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | George: i still don't quite understand the problem you are trying to model |
| 16:12 | <@planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, you may couple together black engines. But once coupled together, you may not paint them red again (like they were before you painted them black) |
| 16:13 | <@planetmaker> | thus he wants to forbid the red paint bucket, if two black engines are coupled |
| 16:13 | <@planetmaker> | but wants to allow it, if the black engine is alone in the shed |
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| 16:14 | <George> | planetmaker: correct |
| 16:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, here is the old discussion on "views" http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=51763 |
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| 16:36 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
| 16:47 | <@Alberth> | good night T |
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| 17:07 | <frosch123> | night |
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| 17:13 | <Wolf01> | good night too |
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| 17:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | nights are overrated |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed May 08 00:00:55 2013 |
