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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-05-08

---Logopened Wed May 08 00:00:55 2013
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03:37<NGC3982>My word.
03:46<V453000>germans: do you have a free day today?
03:46<V453000>like a national day of whatever
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03:51<@peter1138>what about your word?
03:52<V453000>my word?
03:53*NGC3982 hits the big autism gong gong.
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03:59<@planetmaker>no free day today
03:59<@planetmaker>free day tomorrow, though
04:01<V453000>thats what wiki said :)
04:02<V453000>thanks :)
04:02<V453000>btw ... desert nogrid is apparently in some different file xD
04:02<@planetmaker>I saw that. Might be. Sorry about that
04:02<@planetmaker>I didn't yet check that either, but I guess he's right
04:03<V453000>I definitely thihnk he is, the red colour really is weird
04:03<@planetmaker>I probably changed something there. And thought it's better to use one file per set of landscape sprites. Rather than one big with all
04:03<@planetmaker>(less bloat in repository for one pixel change)
04:03<@planetmaker>But... more confusing this way
04:04<V453000>I am totally lost in ogfx/ogfx-landscape file structure :D
04:04<@planetmaker>I can understand that somewhat :-)
04:04<V453000>but I dont think you would be lost any less in nuts :D
04:05<@planetmaker>in the end one has to check the code which sprites are actually used :-)
04:06<@planetmaker>and for desert it indeed uses src/gfx/desert.png
04:06<V453000>e.g. I have one gigantic file for express wagons - tons of liveries for various trains ... BUT some of them are in different files. exactly same case
04:06<@planetmaker>yup :D
04:06<V453000>fixed, added to 5555
04:07<@planetmaker>it starts to get time for a new release for ogfx-landscape
04:11<@planetmaker>there, fixed in repo
04:11<@planetmaker>thanks for the quick fix to you :-)
04:11<V453000>lets see how many versions will there be :D
04:11<V453000>np :)
04:11<@planetmaker>I'm not concerned :-)
04:12<@planetmaker>better more versions than no versions ;-)
04:12<@planetmaker> <-- changelog so far for a new release :D
04:13<V453000>river sprites? :o
04:13<V453000>looks nice to me
04:13<@planetmaker>well... It didn#t have its own. Now it uses OpenGFX' river sprites
04:13<@planetmaker>It's still not perfect. They're not all w/o grid lines
04:14<@planetmaker>Basically it was like copy river.pnml. copy 87 png files. Adopt paths. Done :-P
04:14<V453000>BTW ogfx gridless grass looks like a total lawn :P though the only thing that saves is that grass has rough tiles and the stones ... which snow does not
04:15<@planetmaker>Yes. I know... Not changing that before the next release
04:15<V453000>not suggesting that either :)
04:15<@planetmaker>but I started toying with ground tiles
04:16<@planetmaker>it's difficult. Not sure anything ever will come of it :-P
04:16<V453000>I think it is the hardest thing to do actually
04:16<V453000>or at least from what I tried so far
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04:18<@planetmaker>I only ended up with more lawn: :-P
04:21<V453000>that is 32bpp right?
04:21<@planetmaker>I'll toy around with 32bpp sprites. And convert when I'm somewhat satisfied
04:22<@planetmaker>otherwise tools like shading etc are not available when working with palette right away
04:22<@planetmaker>But thus the result will be a 32bpp version of sprites anyway :D
04:23<V453000>hm :) I will stay with the palette :)
04:23<@planetmaker>you only use it on export in the psd, too ;-)
04:24<V453000>well yes but I draw in the correct colours :P
04:25<@planetmaker>:-) Yeah, that's the difference indeed
04:25<@planetmaker>But I first need to develop a feel how to design, colour, texture, ... terrain
04:25<@planetmaker>easier to get a feeling in rgb colour room
04:26<@planetmaker>conversion to palette then is easy. Even when it needs some manual adjustments to make it look right in that case
04:27<V453000>pretty much
04:29<@planetmaker>I've also not seen a single project which uses 32bpp where I confidently can say "yes, this really uses it well". There are single sprites and complete objects in several projects. But ...
04:29<@planetmaker>... often it still looks a bit... used below its capability
04:33<V453000>from my observation that is simply because they think "omg more colours (eventuall more zoom), automatically awesome" but that is not true by far. In general sprites need some contrast and level of detail. Drawing in many colours is obviously harder than in just a few (at least for vehicles) and drawing for x4 zoom is basically impossible to make look good in x1
04:37<@planetmaker>I don't think that more colours is more difficult to draw in. But if you want to make use of the larger choice of colours you actually have to use them for improved shading etc. To add the fine detail a palette cannot provide
04:37<@planetmaker>and that isn't done
04:39<V453000>sort of, but also it is coming from a similar thing I am refering to
04:39<V453000>if you draw sprites with low contrast (typical) in 8bpp, 32bpp wont help at all
04:42<V453000>point is, if you draw systematically by picking 1 colour in 8bpp, typically a 8shade colour, you can easily place all of those colours around the object
04:43<V453000>doing that with 255 colours is a bit more complicated
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05:30<@planetmaker>V453000, it doesn't mean I have to use that many (nor actually should). But I can choose better fitting colours
05:30<@planetmaker>anyway. I think we mean the same thing. Just different words :D
05:30<@planetmaker>also quak :)
05:30<V453000>sort of moo :)
05:30<frosch123>moin :)
05:31<@planetmaker>New feature in action, frosch123:
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05:33<V453000>newGRF started: WCR :D
05:34<V453000>idk what the shortcut means in general
05:37<Nothing4You>can someone explain to me why the train blocks the upper entrances when exiting at the bottom?
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05:39<V453000>combo signals react to each other
05:40<@peter1138>wrong signals
05:40<@peter1138>use path signals for that station layhout
05:42<@peter1138>if you really want to use pre signals, change the exit signals to regular signals and change the combo signals to exit signals
05:42<@peter1138>it is possible for the station to clog up though
05:43<@peter1138>so then you have to either split it up by direction or just go with path signals
05:43<Nothing4You>i just switched to path ones
05:43<V453000> :D
05:43<Nothing4You>i guess i still don't completely understand how the pre signals work
05:44<@peter1138>exit presignal doesn't refer to, say the exit of the station
05:44<@peter1138>V453000, er what?
05:45<V453000>wip wooden coaster rails :D
05:46<@peter1138>hmm, ok
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05:49<juzza1>Nothing4You: in your station the upper lights are red because the block after them is also red
05:50<Nothing4You>i thought as they were combo signals they would end where the next signal comes
05:50<@peter1138>combos interact with other combos
05:51<@peter1138>well, and exits of course
05:51<@peter1138>basicaly pre-signals suck
05:51<@peter1138>path signals rock
05:51<@peter1138>and V453000 is a lon
05:51<@peter1138>a loon
05:52<frosch123>V453000: wcr0 looks like junctions will be visually as awful as maglev :p
05:53<Nothing4You>actually i had crashes already when i just used path signals in the station
05:53<@peter1138>that's okay, noone uses maglev either
05:53<V453000>sure nobody does :)
05:53<@peter1138>if you had crashes then you're changing signals with trains there
05:53<@peter1138>or making trains override the signal
05:53<juzza1>combo is entry and exit, so in that situation the entry part being red is the dominant one
05:54<V453000>path signals can cause crashes without changing signals
05:54<juzza1>i may be totally wrong though, but that would seem logical
05:56<frosch123>never build circles with combo signals :)
05:56<@peter1138>V453000, true, if you change track layout
05:56<@peter1138>same thing really though
05:56<@peter1138>"don't mess when trains are about"
05:56<@peter1138>same happens with block signals too mind you
05:57<@peter1138>if you leave a layout to its own devices, path signals won't cause crashes
05:57<V453000>just using block signals and path signals together causes crashes easily
05:57<Nothing4You>i had this setup and it caused crashes already
05:58<V453000>because you changed signals in that case, that cant cause crashes on itself
05:58<frosch123>maybe play without signals, use start/stop and force-proceeed, and improve your micro skills
05:59<@peter1138>but you won't, because you know pbs is designed to be shit and crash all the time
05:59<V453000>this isnt really a bug
06:00<V453000>also fuck off with your comments
06:00<@peter1138>ooh i nit a nerve
06:02<V453000>well for instance I did not say PBS is shit, I said it is unsuitable to start learning with
06:02<V453000>but yes sure
06:02<Nothing4You>(internet dc'ed) i had this setup and it caused crashes already
06:02<V453000>[11:58] <V453000> because you changed signals in that case, that cant cause crashes on itself
06:03<Nothing4You>what do you mean by "changing signals"?
06:03<V453000>editing them
06:03<@peter1138>changed them while a train is near
06:03<Nothing4You>no i didn't change them while a train was there
06:03<Nothing4You>it was running successfully for some time and then i suddenly got crashes
06:04<Nothing4You>s/crashes/a crash/
06:04<juzza1>exit signal doesnt need to be pbs, but im not sure if that changes anything
06:04<juzza1>i mean the signal leading to the exit track, not the exit from station
06:04<@peter1138>should really be a signal there at all, but it won't cause crashes
06:05<Nothing4You>i'll try without that
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10:18<goodger>my god, that joke is so old
10:18<__ln___>entirely new
10:19<goodger>also, what's the red circle thing meant to be?
10:19<__ln___>if you don't know, you're missing the point
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's the Bayern München logo
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>it probably works with every sports-related logo :)
10:20<@planetmaker>hehe :-) (and yes, the logo makes the joke)
10:20<goodger>oh, it's just a football club
10:20<goodger>I assumed it was something to do with american politics
10:20<__ln___>the Bavaria Munich logo for those who prefer english only
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's a trademark, it doesn't need translation
10:20<__ln___>and the Bavaria Monaco di Bavaria logo for those who prefer latin.
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10:22<Eddi|zuHause>"future champions league runner up Bayern München" :p
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>(except history and the odds speak for them winning)
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>(and i don't really care)
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12:28<@Alberth>wie wa bie die doe
12:28<@Alberth>also known as "hi all"
12:28<tycoondemon>so where can I comment about how I cannot edit a "new game" in the scenario editor?
12:37<@Alberth>suggestions forum?
12:49<V453000>what do you mean by that :d
12:49<tycoondemon>new game option in the game generates a new game
12:49<tycoondemon>but I cannot create such a game in the scenario editor
12:50<tycoondemon>with no of towns and industries
12:50<tycoondemon>and with trees allready
12:50<V453000>rename the .sav to .scn
12:50<tycoondemon>is that still possible?
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12:51<tycoondemon>and; ttd, and by extension openttd, is the best game ever!
12:52<Nothing4You>where can i set the multiplayer nick?
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12:53<@Alberth> three guesses what you can set in the edit box labeled "player name"
12:54<Nothing4You>somehow it won't let me enter anything there :/
12:54<Nothing4You>visual keyboard works, normal doesn't
12:54<Ristovski>planetmaker: Are you around? I have a question
12:55<@Alberth>if you want to highlight pm, ask the question at the same time
12:55<@Alberth>that way all information is at one line
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12:55<Ristovski>59s connection lag
12:55<@Alberth>hi Zuu
12:56<Ristovski>planetmaker: Is there a NewGRF that adds more stuff like GUIs for buildings and stuff? Aka, to make OpenTTD more SimCity-like
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12:56*Alberth fails to understand why planetmaker specifically would know that
12:56<tycoondemon>using pbs signals is lame for most of the time anyway :O
12:57<Ristovski>Alberth: because he is like the genius here
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13:01<V453000>there is
13:01-!-Ttech [] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.]
13:01<Ristovski>... ha-ha
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13:03<@Alberth>look for newobject newgrfs?
13:04<Nothing4You>when i try to chat it doesn't want to take my input but it takes the shortcut keys instead
13:05<frosch123>sounds as if you have a trouble with focus
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13:05<frosch123>does the editbox show a blinking cursor?
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13:06<Nothing4You>yes it does
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13:06<frosch123>ctrl pressed or something like that? :p
13:06<frosch123>sticky keys?
13:07<Nothing4You>also, if i have the railroad contruction menu open it wants to build a tunnel instead of opening the chat
13:07<Nothing4You>no, ctrl isn't pressed
13:08<frosch123>tunnel is usually "T"
13:08<frosch123>while chat is "enter"
13:08<frosch123>so, something is screwed up on your side :)
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13:08<Nothing4You>still, keys are not accepted
13:09<Nothing4You>cursor is blinking and i can type by using the screen keyboard after double clicking the input box
13:09<frosch123>what os?
13:09<Nothing4You>arch linux
13:09<frosch123>sdl backend?
13:09<frosch123>or frontend?
13:10<frosch123>never know which is which :)
13:10<Nothing4You>how do i know?
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13:10<@Alberth>frosch123: whatever you prefer :)
13:10<frosch123>Alberth: sounds dirty
13:10<frosch123>Nothing4You: start ottd with "-v sdl"
13:11<Nothing4You>my package manager says sdl is a dependency of openttd so i know it's installed
13:11<Nothing4You>is there a way i can know whether it's using that without restarting the game?
13:11<frosch123>start "openttd --help" in parallel
13:12<frosch123>it should list the available video drivers
13:12<frosch123>maybe sdl is even the only one
13:12<frosch123>"allegro" is the only alternative anyway
13:12<+glx>he should have "null" in the list too :)
13:12<frosch123>yeah, but i would think he would notice :p
13:13<Nothing4You>it lists sdl, dedicated and null
13:13<frosch123>yeah, so "sdl"
13:13<frosch123>well, so, i would blame sdl :p
13:13<frosch123>anyway, which ottd version?
13:14<+glx>(and latest is not a version)
13:14<+glx>so last stable
13:15<frosch123>oh, i never committed my diff
13:16<frosch123> <- if you can compile, you might want to check whether that diff makes a difference :)
13:17<Zuu>Hello Alberth
13:20<Nothing4You>frosch123: that could help me?
13:20<Nothing4You>then i need to compile :/
13:20<frosch123>it completely changes how sdl keypresses are processed in ottd
13:20<frosch123>it is meant to fix numpad behaviour
13:20<Nothing4You>lol i just got disconnected saying my pc is too slow
13:20<frosch123>but since there is something weird on your side, and it changes it completely, maybe it changes something for your
13:20<Nothing4You>so i can quit the game
13:21<frosch123>just a random idea :)
13:21<Nothing4You>k, i'll try then
13:24<frosch123>you could also try other sdl based games
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13:31<Nothing4You>what's the correct syntax to apply the patch?
13:32<frosch123>patch -p 0 < fs5504.diff
13:32<Zuu>I always use -p0 or -p1. Eg without a space after -p. But maybe it works also with the space
13:32<Nothing4You>i thought it would default to 0 without param
13:33<Nothing4You>but it didn't seem to
13:33<frosch123>no, default is "without paths"
13:33<Nothing4You>kk, i just tried with -p0
13:33<frosch123>which is completely useless for anything more than a single file :)
13:33<Zuu>Your current path needs to be such that you have src in the current directory.
13:33<Nothing4You>diffing to svn version
13:33<Nothing4You>starts with Hunk #1 FAILED at 240.
13:34<frosch123>yeah, might not apply to 1.3.0
13:34<Nothing4You>oh, it's an older one?
13:34<frosch123>try the exact svn version
13:34<Nothing4You>i did
13:34<frosch123>r25092 ?
13:34<Nothing4You>At revision 15000.
13:34<Nothing4You>that is wrong
13:35<frosch123>15000 is some years old :p
13:35<Nothing4You>yeah obviously
13:35<Nothing4You>i just used the packaging script provided by someone
13:35<Nothing4You>didn't expect a version number to be hardcoded in a -svn package :o
13:35<frosch123>@commit 15000
13:35<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Commit by truebrain :: r15000 /branches/noai/src (ai/ai.hpp saveload/ai_sl.cpp) (2009-01-12 10:47:53 UTC)
13:35<@DorpsGek>frosch123: [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): forgot to rename @file too
13:36<frosch123>excellent revision :p
13:36<Nothing4You>updating now...
13:36<Nothing4You>to 25092
13:36<Nothing4You>i guess i should take some time later and write a better script that auto updates
13:37<Nothing4You>it makes no sense to have a -svn which is hardcoded to a version
13:38<Nothing4You>building now
13:39<Nothing4You>compiling slowly :D
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>where was the r15k party? :)
13:41<frosch123>in your head
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>we should have one then :p
13:41<Supercheese>where *wasn't* it? :P
13:42<Supercheese>distributed partying
13:42<Supercheese>party in the cloud?
13:43<frosch123>on my way to work, i pass a certain company which is partying their existence of 30 years
13:44<frosch123>... but they are doing that for 4 years now ...
13:44<frosch123>i have not figured out whether they started with 26, or ar still partying with 34 :)
13:45<frosch123>you can guess what kind of company it is :)
13:45<frosch123>tycoondemon: r25k first :)
13:45<tycoondemon>we must have fireworks then
13:45<tycoondemon>or something
13:45<Eddi|zuHause> (warning: commercial spot)
13:48<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: they have no license plates
13:50<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: did i miss the joke? how does that fit on topic?
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>what tpüoc
13:51<frosch123>your right hand is misaligned
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i got blinded by sunlight
13:53<frosch123>but at least we know now that eddi is not a alien with a single tentacle
13:53<frosch123>he has at least two
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the joke, obviously, is old spock vs. new spock
13:54<frosch123>ok, wouldn't know either
13:54<frosch123>what did they do to their ears?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>then it's probably useless to point you to the other half dozen jokes in there
13:59<frosch123>yeah, never cared about st :)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>like that they play 3D-chess. or that he recites his own bilbo ballad. and then his own death scene
13:59<frosch123>i saw darkstar this week, and it did not disappoint me about the trashiness :)
14:00<Nothing4You>compiling done :)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>it really took you 20 minutes?
14:01<Nothing4You>a bit less
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>on what kind of system?
14:01<Nothing4You>didn't notice when it finnished
14:01<Nothing4You>i'm doing this on a netbook
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>and did you try "make -j5"?
14:01<Nothing4You>damn it looks like either this build script is totally shit or something different is fucked up
14:02<frosch123>what did it compile this time? :p
14:02<Nothing4You>first it asked me to download the graphics, then it segfaulted
14:02<Nothing4You>after downloading a bit
14:02<frosch123>gcc 4.5 ?
14:02<Nothing4You>i did `make` without params
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>that is an already fixed bug
14:02<Nothing4You>gcc 4.8
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>it segfaulted at the end of the download
14:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: well, we said r25092 :)
14:03<Nothing4You>it segfaulted with "Error: Assertion failed at line 2440 of /home/rschwab/build/openttd-svn-sdl-patch/src/trunk/src/window.cpp: w"
14:03<frosch123>well, don't you have a graphics set already anyway?
14:03<Nothing4You>oh the revision you told me wasn't the most recent one
14:04<Nothing4You>removed the revision stuff completely from the script now
14:04<Nothing4You>downloading current version now :D
14:04<frosch123>well, i don't know whether the diff still applies
14:04<frosch123>it's 6 weeks old or so
14:04<Nothing4You>it does
14:05<Nothing4You>it didn't have the stuff because it was installed to a different location
14:05<frosch123>well, i have no doubts that it still applies to r25092 :p
14:05<Nothing4You>to have it installed in addition to the stable version
14:06<Nothing4You>it's r25232 now
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>Nothing4You: but the personal dir (~/.openttd) is usually shared between multiple installs
14:06<Nothing4You>no, it was ./configure'd with a different path
14:07<Nothing4You>to ~/.openttd-svn
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>Nothing4You: anyway, it should just work if you start it again after the crash
14:07<Nothing4You>already recompiling with the newer version
14:07<Nothing4You>so i'll just wait until that finnishes
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>and with "make -j26" it uses more than one core, so compiling might be faster
14:08<frosch123>-j26 sounds like out of memory
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>(don't use 26, it's probably not useful) :p
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>well, i recently mistyped -j12 as -j23 but had no problems :)
14:09<Nothing4You>what is -j?
14:09<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: -j runs everything in parallel :p
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>Nothing4You: number of threads run in parallel
14:10<Nothing4You>doesn't it auto to number of cpus?
14:10<Nothing4You>k, using -j2 then
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>might put that as an alias or something, to have it default
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>hm, so anyone have any arguments against ?
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14:28<Nothing4You>the svn version with your patch works with the input
14:28<Nothing4You>frosch123: ↑
14:28<frosch123>and it fails without it?
14:29<frosch123>(just checking that it's the patch, and not the custom compile)
14:29<Nothing4You>i didn't check without the patch yet
14:29<Nothing4You>(oh noes, another compile waiting :()
14:30<frosch123>yeah, compiling is the only reason why i have the big machine i have :p
14:32<Nothing4You>a progress indicator would be nice while compiling
14:34<frosch123>it's alphabetical
14:35<Nothing4You>percentage would be nicer
14:35<Nothing4You>i'm at road
14:36<frosch123>about 30% i would guess
14:36<frosch123>most is "s" :)
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14:38<Nothing4You>window now
14:39<Nothing4You>making done
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14:41<Nothing4You>this is confusing
14:41<Nothing4You>it now suddenly works
14:41<Nothing4You>even with the stable version
14:42<frosch123>it only works when the cpu is warm
14:42<frosch123>you should compile ottd every know and then
14:42<Nothing4You>although the version with your patch had some other problem fixed
14:43<Nothing4You>lemme find out whether that was random or a real fix
14:43<frosch123>it is supposed to fix numpad
14:43<Nothing4You>i don't have a numpad
14:43<Nothing4You>does it only do keyboard related stuff?
14:44<Nothing4You>then it most likely was random (or good timing)
14:44<frosch123>what did it change? :p
14:44<Nothing4You>lemme recompile with your patch and try
14:44<frosch123>copy the old binary before?
14:45<Nothing4You>i usually fullscreen the window after launching by using my window manager for that
14:45<Nothing4You>so i can still alt+tab
14:46<Nothing4You>usually that results in having some unusuable area at the top of the screen which shows the same content as several pixels below
14:48<Nothing4You>again at road
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14:50<Eddi|zuHause>that has probably something to do with the resolution you select
14:50<frosch123>magic bulldozer allows removing stuff from other companies?
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>which might be different since you used a clean config
14:50<frosch123>are you sure?
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: no
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i don't remember ever using it
14:51<frosch123>it allows removing industries and such
14:51<Supercheese>I'd like to make some renders of the rotodyne, and I'm wondering at what angle should it cruise at
14:51<Supercheese>Helicopters have to nose down when cruising
14:52<Supercheese>but would the rotodyne fly level?
14:52<@Alberth>80 degrees
14:52<Nothing4You>i use 1366x768 which is also set in the ingame prefs
14:52<Nothing4You>it works being the size of my screen without being in fullscreen
14:52<Nothing4You>but when i go down with the mouse the task bar pops up
14:53<Nothing4You>sometimes i get it adjusted and working fine, sometimes it doesn't
14:55<Nothing4You>btw, what is the difference between NewGRF and Online Content?
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>there's more content than just newgrfs
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>and there are newgrfs which are not "online"
14:56<Nothing4You>what do you mean by not online?
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>"what's the difference between apple juice and a vegetable store?"
14:57<frosch123>Nothing4You: not everyone puts their add-ons into the online content download service
14:58<Nothing4You>i mean both can be downloaded via the client
14:58<frosch123>some dream of selling their stuff some day, or something like that
14:58<Nothing4You>it looks like the "Online Content" contains the NewGRFs aswell
14:58<Supercheese>or just done like the terms of use
14:58<Nothing4You>why do they have an extra download menu?
14:58<Supercheese>"Online content" from main menu gets you everything
14:59<Supercheese>"online content" from newgrf menu gets only newgrfs
14:59<Supercheese>that what you're asking?
14:59<Nothing4You>why is there an extra for just newgrfs if they're already in the other one
14:59<Supercheese>likewise "online content" form AI/GS settings gets only AI/GS/Libraries
14:59<Supercheese>and so on
14:59<frosch123>Nothing4You: it's the same, just pre-filtered for type
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>"why is there a meat store outside the supermarket, when the supermarket already sells meat?"
15:01<frosch123>you have a meat store outside the supermarket?
15:01<frosch123>usually there is a bread store
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>(A: because the husbands can stand there and get a snack while the wife shops.)
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: depends
15:01<frosch123>the meat and cheese stuff is usually inside the supermarket
15:02<frosch123>s/inside/part of/
15:02<frosch123>while the bakery might have different service times
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>especially the larger supermarkets tend to have this
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there is also a meat section inside the supermarket as well
15:02<frosch123>i have seen many supermarkets with a bread store
15:03<frosch123>but never one with a meat store :)
15:03<Supercheese>Really? Our supermarkets have the bakery section, then the meat/delicatessen, then the pharmacy...
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>pharmacy is very special in germany
15:03<Supercheese>they employ a butcher, a baker
15:03<frosch123>Supercheese: no, not "part of the supermarket"
15:03<Nothing4You>i know some bigger supermarkets that are like what you describe
15:03<Wolf01>hello o/
15:03<Supercheese>no candlestick makers though ;)
15:03<frosch123>but a separate company inside the same building
15:04<Supercheese>ah, well often the pharmacy is separate-ish
15:04<Supercheese>also we get Starbucks inside our Safeways
15:04<Supercheese>there's probably a corporate partnership
15:04<Supercheese>but yeah, never separate meat stores
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the point is: when the husband is forced to come along with the wive, the store has on average 15% less sales :)
15:05<frosch123>lol :p
15:07<frosch123>he, i see
15:07<frosch123>you are also confused about the similiary of lol and \o/ :)
15:08<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: except for the liquor section
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: you mean like ? :p
15:11<frosch123> <- no, that one :p
15:11<frosch123>we only link nase-bohren here
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but that was not in the first 10 google results
15:12<MNIM>Hilfe, hilfe, ich kann nicht schwimmen!
15:12<MNIM>I can't either, but I don't make so much noise about it!
15:12<Wolf01>uhm, my last visited link on nase-bohren is 14.12.2012, I must regain
15:17<Nothing4You>how do i get the AI in my game?
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15:18<Wolf01>I think there is a setting when you start a new game
15:19<Nothing4You>i can't see a settings for it in the new game menu
15:20<HellTiger>first you need to download a ai
15:20<HellTiger>there are several
15:21<Nothing4You>i downloaded and enabled them in the ai/game script menu already
15:21<Nothing4You>now i just want to play with them
15:21<Wolf01>uhm, yes it has been moved to "AI/Game Script Settings", I'm playing the same game for 2 years :P
15:21<Nothing4You>i have set it to max 2 competitors with different scripts
15:22<Nothing4You>does that automatically load them?
15:22<frosch123>they start some time after you
15:22<Wolf01>then you sould only need to wait, iirc, one AI starts each month
15:22<frosch123>like a half year or a whole year
15:23<Wolf01>too much?
15:23<frosch123>you can also force them to start my typing "start_ai" in the in-game console
15:24<Nothing4You>btw is it possible to have the AI playing in the same team with a player?
15:25<frosch123>with cheats you can enter the ai company
15:26<Nothing4You>how is that handled in multiplayer?
15:26<Nothing4You>also not possible by default?
15:26<frosch123>i don't think you can join ai companies in multiplayer :)
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15:33<Nothing4You>what are "upgrades" in the content download?
15:33<frosch123>never versions of stuff you downloaded earlier
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15:36<Supercheese>Gamescripts can't alter vehicle properties, can they>
15:38<Supercheese>It'd be fun if they could affect vehicle properties on a per-player basis, giving rewards for goals etc.
15:38<Supercheese>but that'd be a lot of code
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>that'll horribly fail if the vehicle set is exchanged
15:44<Nothing4You>is there a command for fast-forward?
15:45<Zuu>Nothing4You: fast forward in MP is not allowed if that is what you are trying to do.
15:45<Zuu>Otherwise, hold the tab key
15:45<Nothing4You>i mean faster than that
15:45<Zuu>You can assign a key in hotkeys.cfg if you want a hotkey to toggle fast forward.
15:45<Nothing4You>like a command to go 1 year in future
15:46<Supercheese>Fast forward runs the game as fast as it can, otherwise use the cheat menu
15:46<Zuu>You can use the year cheat to change the time.
15:46<Zuu>But that will not make the game state progress.
15:46<Supercheese>to change the date -- of course, that changes date only and doesn't actually fast forward
15:46<Supercheese>yeah that
15:46<Supercheese>doesn't calculate what would happen in that year and apply it
15:46<Supercheese>although that would be cool, you might have to wait a long time for that :P
15:47<Supercheese>would have to*
15:47<blathijs>Supercheese: About the same time it would take to keep fast-forward enabled :-)
15:48<Nothing4You>i need to wait 8 years :/
15:48<Nothing4You>it's slightly faster than 1 day / sec
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>blathijs: well it might be somewhat faster when not trying to draw stuff
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>Nothing4You: make the window smaller
15:50<Nothing4You>ah that works
15:50<Zuu>Disable full detail and full animations
15:50<Nothing4You>now just the savegames slow it down :D
15:51<Zuu>Do you run on a single core CPU?
15:51<Nothing4You>saving is a bit slow as / is an usb stick
15:52<Zuu>With dual core, actual saving to disk is done by a seperate thread. The only slow down is to make a copy of the entire game state.
15:53<Zuu>On a somewhat fast PC, autosave is hardly noticable. In your case, if it is a significant slow down, you can turn it off or reduce the frequency in game options. (but don't complain to me if you lost your game ;-) )
15:54<Nothing4You>i can live with the waiting time
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>well it gets in trouble when waiting for the savegame to be written takes longer than advancing the game until the next autosave
16:01<Nothing4You>what happens then?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>the world implodes
16:01<Nothing4You>also, the game fast-forwarding is stopped and it's running at normal speed while it saves
16:01<Nothing4You>only the world?
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>it blows a whole in the space-time-continuum the size of belgium
16:06<@peter1138>i read that as "the size of belugas"
16:10<@Belugas>EXCUSES ME!!! I might come from belgium, I may be a "tiny" fat, but i'm not THAT FAT!
16:10<@Alberth>o/ sir B
16:10<@Belugas>sir A! sir P!
16:11<@Rubidium>monsieur B!
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>of course i was referring to
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16:22<Supercheese>NML speed units still broken?
16:22<Supercheese>190 mph returns "action 0 property too large"
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16:23<Supercheese>and that's pretty low for an aircraft speed
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16:26<@Belugas>monsieur R!
16:26<@Belugas>man.. would be easier to just start the alphabet...
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>or the periodic table :)
16:27<Supercheese>PeriOTTDic table, eh?
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16:33<@Rubidium>Belugas: just use regular expressions ;)
16:34<@Rubidium>messieurs .!
16:35<Nothing4You>why not [A-Z]?
16:36<Nothing4You>do you want to support people who have names like '`' or '_'?
16:36<@Rubidium>Nothing4You: yes, e.g. __ln___
16:36<@Rubidium>and also those with a lowercase name
16:37<@peter1138>don't forget little bobby tables
16:37<Supercheese>or perhaps a name that begins with ç or ö or something
16:37<Nothing4You>that is possible in irc?
16:37<Supercheese>hmm, good question
16:37<Nothing4You>i don't think so
16:38<Nothing4You>it isn't
16:38<@peter1138>probably depends on the server softwarte
16:38<Supercheese>tried, didn't work
16:38<Supercheese>well, tried using Greek
16:38<Supercheese>close enough
16:39<Supercheese>"Σupercheese Erroneous Nickname"
16:39<Nothing4You>nickname = ( letter / special ) *8( letter / digit / special / "-" )
16:39<Nothing4You>↑↑ RFC 2812
16:40<Nothing4You>special = %x5B-60 / %x7B-7D ; "[", "]", "\", "`", "_", "^", "{", "|", "}"
16:41<Nothing4You>channel names are way less restrictive
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>beginning with # is not a restriction?
16:42<Supercheese>"#upercheese Erroneous Nickname"
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>not what i meant
16:42<Supercheese>ah, channel
16:42<Nothing4You>i mean #äöü€ΩŁ⅞æſ is a valid channel name
16:43<Supercheese>precisely :)
16:43<Nothing4You>yay, music channels
16:43<Nothing4You>now irc just needs music streaming :D
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese is blind now?
16:44<frosch123>aww... neither "♪" nor "♫" give any google result
16:44<__ln___>-> #Ωpenttd
16:45<frosch123>you should try nbsp and rtl control chars :)
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16:46<Nothing4You>→ #ðþ€ŋΩŧŧÐ
16:46<Supercheese>or the upside-down lettering
16:46<Supercheese>combined with rtl would be interesting
16:47<Nothing4You>i wonder whether my client can handle those control chars correctly
16:47<frosch123>the log cannot :)
16:48<__ln___>Nothing4You: ththeurongottd? you're not taking unicode seriously.
16:48<Nothing4You>oh that wasn't an o
16:48<Nothing4You>just looked similar
16:48<Nothing4You>aswell as most of the other chars
16:49<Nothing4You>and the omega also was wrong
16:52<Nothing4You>frosch123: which line?
16:52<Nothing4You>can't find it
16:52<frosch123>starting 18:33:53
16:53<frosch123>in my browser everything is messed up after that
16:53<Nothing4You>what you linked ended at 18:22:30
16:53<frosch123>ok, look for "question of the day"
16:54<Nothing4You>yeah, doesn't work
16:55<Nothing4You>using chrome
16:55<frosch123>unbalanced rtl control codes :)
16:55<Supercheese>my browser works it out fine
16:55<Nothing4You>it's displayed correctly, i just can't select it
16:55<Nothing4You>without selecting the text around it
16:55<Supercheese>< frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
16:56<frosch123>now you broke it again :p
16:56<Supercheese>heh, copy/paste inserted "text properly"
16:56<Nothing4You>my irc client shows them correctly rtl
16:56<Nothing4You>not whee
16:56<Nothing4You>weechat :)
16:56<Supercheese>freak out
16:56<frosch123>osch123> ‬maybe
16:57<Nothing4You>lemme try copy pasting it
16:57<Nothing4You>< frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
16:57<Nothing4You>yeah, that works aswell
16:57<frosch123>3> ‬ma
16:57<frosch123>don't break it all the time
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16:58<Nothing4You>it's just that part that is broken?
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16:58<Nothing4You>if i copy paste it from my terminal the control codes are stripped
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16:59<Nothing4You>although the input line doesn't like it
16:59<Nothing4You>it just shows the part backwards
17:00<frosch123>so it shows the logical order?
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17:01<Nothing4You>chrome shows it in the logical order in text
17:01<Nothing4You>but in the input box it's being as it should
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>err, did they really just compare the discussion about speed limits in germany with the discussion about gun control in america?
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>in the newspaper
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>the electronic one, not the paper one. nobody has those anymore :p
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19:12<Eddi|zuHause>what i find most amazing about this article is the comparison that it should have a low speed limit and instead overtaking on the right, which, obviously, causes WAAAAAAAAAY more accidents
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19:19<Kylie>cant right click to get tooltip
19:20<Kylie>when right click, doesnt pop up
19:20<Nothing4You>Eddi|zuHause: yeah
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>Kylie: advamced settings->gui->tooltip delay
19:21<Kylie>also, i forget if i can zoom in and ouyt with the scroll whell
19:22<Nothing4You>why don't you try it and see?
19:23<Kylie>i tried, didn't zoom in/out. thought i could. but ty
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>why don't you look for a setting that has scroll wheel in the name, then?
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>or are you 8 years old?
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>hey, i have a solution for the american weapon problem: don't limit how fast the weapon can shoot, but limit how fast people may shoot the weapon in public spaces!!!
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---Logclosed Thu May 09 00:00:17 2013