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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-05-11

---Logopened Sat May 11 00:00:59 2013
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04:41<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
04:41<Wolf01>hello :D
04:42-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
04:47<Wolf01>damn... this night I played Minecraft, I took a lava shower and now I'm naked at 2000 blocks from home (where I slept the last time)
04:49<__ln__>so in sicily
04:49<@Alberth>you do weird things in your weekend :)
04:50<Wolf01>yes, I have this bad habit
04:53<Wolf01>gah, a creeper unde the checkpoint tree.. I can't sleep :(
04:53<Wolf01>*under
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06:17<juzza1>how does NML determine vehicle IDs if they are not set in the item blocks?
06:19<juzza1>if for example i have a file like this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/entry/finnishtrainset.pnml does it go numerically from the first to last
06:19<@Alberth>quite likely by grabbing unused ones
06:19<@Alberth>if you care about assigned ID, I'd assign them
06:20<@Alberth>NML may change its policy, and horribly break your code
06:20<juzza1>yeah i probably should
06:20<juzza1>what is the first id if a disable all orignal trains?
06:21<@Alberth>sorry, no idea
06:23<@planetmaker>IDs start at 0, whether you disable or not disable orginal trains
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06:24<@planetmaker>There's actually little point in disabling them, if you define trains anyway. You could simply overwrite.
06:25<@planetmaker>only place where it is maybe a bit useful is, when people add the NewGRF to an existing game
06:25<@planetmaker>But then all bets are off anyway
06:26<@planetmaker>other than that NML keeps track of which IDs are assigned. And takes the next one, if no ID is explicitly stated
06:27<@planetmaker>If you do not assign IDs explicitly, you need to keep the order in which vehicles are assigned, or their ID will change. Assigning a specific ID explicitly in code is only needed, if you want to set backward compatibility explicitly
06:27<@planetmaker>which may or may not be a good idea
06:28<@planetmaker>you're not backward compatible, if you changed the length of any vehicle compared to a previous version
06:28-!-alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd
06:28<@planetmaker>thus in those cases you should break backward compatibility explicitly via setting the proper min_compatible_version in the grf block to the current version
06:29<@planetmaker>^ juzza1
06:29<juzza1>thanks for the info
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06:32<juzza1>i guess assigning the ids isn't really necessary then, for as long as new vehicles are added after the previous ones in the code
06:34<@planetmaker>yes, that should work. Alberth is right though, it cannot be 100% guaranteed, if NML internals change, but ...
06:34<@planetmaker>... you have one thing less to worry about during coding then ;-)
06:34<@planetmaker>and as long as releases are bananafied, people get the correct version anyway
06:35<@planetmaker>(updating newgrfs generally is... prone with issues)
06:35<@planetmaker>updating on running games. but you know that :-)
06:35<@planetmaker>good for testing and developing. but not for playing
06:36<oskari89>I've done that :P
06:36<oskari89>For FTS developing
06:36<@planetmaker>FTS?
06:36<oskari89>Finnish Trainset
06:36<@planetmaker>oh... ^ :-)
06:36<@planetmaker>yes, sure. When developing I update, change or so all the time
06:37<@planetmaker>But ... I know when that will not give the results. And I frequently also test in completely new games
06:37<juzza1>yeah i usually just load a new game, sometimes you get pretty funny results though if you force the changes to a previous save
06:37<oskari89>In one point, one of my games was so messy that i needed to put some 2500 trains to depot and delete them all
06:38<@planetmaker>exactly, juzza1 :-)
06:38<@planetmaker>oskari89, yeah. And that's when you actually can also start a new game really. IMHO
06:38<oskari89>Yes
06:39<@planetmaker>as I'd then not trust the newly build trains either
06:39<oskari89>That gives the opportunity for that in completely "clean" infrastructure
06:39-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4b27.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:39<@planetmaker>and after all I want to test the current version. Not some possibly corrupted thing
06:39<@planetmaker>quak
06:40<oskari89>I hope that the heightmap extension could come some day to OpenTTD
06:40<juzza1>but yeah just to recap, if a go through the route of no ids, then the only way to get rid of original vehicles is to explicitly disable them?
06:41<@planetmaker>I think so, yes, juzza1
06:42<frosch123>moin pm :)
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06:43<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/src/remove_wagons.pnml @ juzza1
06:45<Wolf01>I'm trying to figure out how to make a train pass in minecraft, the main problem is the lack of signals, and I unlinkely will put redstone all around the map
06:45<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/src/redefine_engines.pnml <-- mind also that you can assign the ID once to the name. And in other places just use the name to define further parts of the vehicle
06:45<@planetmaker>can be helpful, if you want to go for defined IDs. Thus define them once in one place. And not care in all other places of your code
06:46-!-Chrill [~chrischri@c83-253-84-230.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
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06:57<alluke>how do you do the beep
06:57<@planetmaker>*beep*
06:58<alluke>like quote someone
06:58<alluke>@ nick doesnt seem to work
06:58<@planetmaker>?
06:58<oskari89>alluke: read the irc manual :P
06:58<alluke>wheres that
06:58<alluke>trid to find it yesterday
06:58<oskari89>Google it
06:59<@Alberth>in particular, the manual of your client :)
06:59<Chrill>mIRC manual: http://mircwiki.rsna.org/index.php?title=MIRC_User%27s_Manual
06:59<Chrill>but youre not using mirc
06:59<Chrill>of course
06:59<Chrill>http://www.irc-wiki.org/Qwebirc
06:59<oskari89>alluke: That earlier Dv15 tging
06:59<oskari89>*thing
06:59<oskari89>We decided that it needs to be that length
07:00<alluke>the length is good
07:00<oskari89>http://www.vaunut.org/kuva/57718
07:01<oskari89>There's no other dimension changes than length
07:01<oskari89>Basically
07:01<alluke>yeah
07:01<oskari89>You can see that from that picture
07:02<oskari89>Alluke: try the latest nightly of Finnish Trainst
07:02<oskari89>*trainset
07:02<alluke>i have it in
07:02<alluke>why is the eit called blue coach
07:02<alluke>instead of express coach
07:03<oskari89>"Sininen vaunu" in finnish
07:03<alluke>i know
07:03<juzza1>because the coder guy doesnt know the wagon specifics...
07:04<oskari89>alluke: try Dr12 with some 20 Ome's behind it :)
07:04<alluke>okay
07:04<oskari89>Kind of nice consist
07:05<oskari89>Doesn't accelerate very much when it's full, but it's kind of nice and realistic consist
07:05<oskari89>Slowly climbing to about 90 km/h
07:05<oskari89>:)
07:06<oskari89>With plenty of smoke
07:06<oskari89>Or try pair of Dv16 :)
07:07<alluke>i have 3 dv12s hauling soeks
07:07<oskari89>With the second engine turned backwards, of course
07:07<alluke>and they take good amout of time to hit 101
07:08<alluke>over 1000 tons loaded
07:08<oskari89>:)
07:08<alluke>btw
07:08<alluke>what happened to that mockup sprite
07:08<alluke>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/4502/Ome_comparison.png
07:09<oskari89>Basically the Ome did get it's sprites modifed from Taimn
07:10<alluke>saw that
07:10<alluke>why not use danmacks sprites
07:10<oskari89>He had only that one sprite
07:11<alluke>damn
07:12<oskari89>Most of DanMacK's in-progress sprites are just one sprite :(
07:13<oskari89>Don't know if he has more on his PC, i think so
07:15-!-parkette [~pjm@apn-77-114-54-69.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
07:15<oskari89>@seen DanMacK
07:15<@DorpsGek>oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 56 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
07:17<alluke>taimn is too bright
07:17<juzza1>:D
07:19<alluke>the blue should be nearly black
07:19<alluke>and copy the bogeys from occ
07:23<oskari89>Alluke: http://www.vaunut.org/kuva/47874
07:24<alluke>yes
07:24<alluke>its way too bright atm
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07:24<alluke>one or two shades darker blue
07:24<oskari89>http://www.vaunut.org/kuva/41366
07:25<alluke>yes
07:27<alluke>it looks way brighter than those in the pics
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07:29<juzza1>make it darker and all views will look the same
07:29<juzza1>the shadow side already uses the deepest blue available
07:32<oskari89>alluke: Maybe you could do some heightmap?
07:32<oskari89>For Finnish scenery, around "your" area?
07:33<alluke>hm
07:33<alluke>how does that work
07:38<oskari89>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21457&sid=8d8d131b6fe699b99378aec99ba107c2&start=480#p1075233
07:39<oskari89>Hmmm
07:39<oskari89>Basically head here first: http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/dem3.html
07:39-!-ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
07:39<oskari89>Then download 3DEM
07:40<oskari89>And follow my instructions on that post
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07:44<oskari89>Remember those height level scales
07:45<NGC3982>Hey
07:45<oskari89>They _must_ be set correctly
07:45<NGC3982>I just noticed that IKEA's espresso grind is fantastic
07:46<alluke>...
07:48<NGC3982>Not to ruin your conversation or something.
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07:55<alluke>@juzza1
07:55<alluke>tried recolouring the taimn using greyer shades
07:55<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202013-05-11%20kohteessa%2014.32.23.png
07:57<NGC3982>That looks neat.
07:58<oskari89>Alluke: use this: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/changes/gfx/wagons/wa_taimn.png
07:58<alluke>right
07:59<alluke>but how does that quick one look
07:59<juzza1>you can only use these colors http://www.ttdpatch.de/grfspecs/PalettesAndCoordinates.html
07:59<alluke>i have the palette
07:59<juzza1>your colors are not in the palette
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08:00<alluke>downloaded photoshop palette here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/1
08:00<oskari89>Use dos palette
08:00<juzza1>use the color picker on your blues, they are not in the palette
08:00<juzza1>cant use company colors btw
08:00<alluke>yeah
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08:04<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/ypp0WK1.png
08:05<NGC3982>That's exciting. No gridlines.
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08:24<oskari89>alluke: Do post that on the DevZone after you're done :P
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08:35<juzza1>alluke: all the psd files are now at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository if you want to look at them or modify
08:36<alluke>ok
08:44<alluke>ihttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202013-05-11%20kohteessa%2015.43.16.png
08:44<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202013-05-11%20kohteessa%2015.43.16.png
08:45<alluke>aint that the correct palette
08:46<__ln__>however, at Microsoft: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=74
08:47<alluke>tl;dr
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: that doesn't look right
08:48<__ln__>alluke: yeah, somebody should make a video out of it for the attention-spanly challenged people.
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: he rants about nobody trying to optimise stuff in the windows kernel, because it's not a business interest. whereas people optimise stuff in the linux kernel for "fame and glory"
08:50<alluke>hahaha
08:51<alluke>but doesnt ottd support 32bpp colors
08:52-!-HellTiger [~HellTiger@43-54.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: yes, but you need 8bpp sprites as well
08:52<alluke>yes
08:52<alluke>whats the problem in drawing 8bpp sprites in 32bpp colors
08:53<@planetmaker>palette conversion
08:53<alluke>hmm
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: the conversion into 8bpp may not use any "magic" colours and stuff
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>people often get that wrong
08:53<alluke>32bpp grfs work in newer ottd without any hassle
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, openttd automatically switches to 32bpp if the grf requests it
08:54<oskari89>But mixing between those two in same grf... ?
08:55<alluke>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202013-05-11%20kohteessa%2015.54.38.png
08:55<@planetmaker>oskari89, nothing wrong with mixing them. Except maybe the artistic POV from making it fit look well together
08:56<__ln__>barely noticeable difference in the screenshot above
08:56<@planetmaker>oskari89, indeed you can provide 4x, 2x, 1x 0.5x, 0.25x sprites in both 8bpp and 32bpp all in one newgrf
08:56<@planetmaker>I probably forgot the 0.125x zoom level
08:57<@planetmaker>(discover the alternative_sprites block :-) )
08:58<@planetmaker>baseline is though: you absolutely MUST provide 8bpp 1x zoom sprites
08:58<@planetmaker>everything else is optional
08:59<alluke>stupid oil rigs
08:59<alluke>one dropped production and other one disappeared
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09:00<@planetmaker>play with opengfx+ industries and disable it
09:01<@planetmaker>at least I think it's feasible via parameter
09:01<alluke>i play with pbi atm
09:01<alluke>ye it is
09:04<@planetmaker>uh... all water sprites again re-generated... time for a 5 minute tea break :D
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09:12<alluke>hmm
09:12<alluke>fin-aus today
09:13<__ln__>i didn't know australia is even playing hockey in the world championships
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't know there is a hockey world championship
09:15<NGC3982>Me neither.
09:15<NGC3982>Sports.
09:15<NGC3982>:/
09:17-!-LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-22.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
09:18<__ln__>can't avoid hearing about it unfortunately.
09:18*LordAro waves
09:18*Alberth waves back
09:19<LordAro>haia Alberth
09:19<__ln__>sports is meant to keep the spectators focused on something irrelevant so they don't start causing real trouble.
09:19-!-Mailaender [~matthias@p4FE5067C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
09:36<alluke>yay
09:36<alluke>2-0!
09:37<__ln__>please no, keep this an ice hockey free zone.
09:38<frosch123>what about non-ice hockey?
09:39<alluke>tractor pulling?
09:40<NGC3982>Lady throwing.
09:40<alluke>wheelchair diving
09:41<Mailaender>O.o
09:41<__ln__>brockian ultra-cricket
09:42<LordAro>^^
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09:42<frosch123>cricket is a finish national sports, isn't it?
09:42<alluke>dunno
09:42<alluke>aint it played in intia and pakistan
09:42<alluke>india*
09:43<Mailaender>Cricket is very British?
09:43<LordAro>indeed, wotwot
09:44<frosch123>yeah, i confused it
09:44<frosch123>i meant some other sports, but i cannot remember the name :p
09:44<Mailaender>have you successfully automatised the publishing process on http://www.desura.com/?
09:44<frosch123>i doubt that
09:44<LordAro>great fun - you get to throw lumps of very hard leather at each other at >50mph
09:45<LordAro>if you're good, anyway
09:45<NGC3982>Cricket feels very colonial
09:45<Mailaender>I am currently searching for a solution. We have weekly builds for OpenRA and it annoys me to manually create those MFCs.
09:45<NGC3982>Our university is filled with pakistani people, and thus - cricket.
09:45<frosch123>ah, i meant curling :p
09:45<LordAro>lol
09:46<frosch123>it also starts with c :)
09:48<__ln__>"Brockian Ultra-Cricket is a curious game which involves suddenly hitting people for no readily apparent reason and then running away."
09:49<LordAro>ah, Douglas Adams. Great man
09:49<NGC3982>Indeed.
09:50*NGC3982 fills __ln__ with pan galactic gargle blasters.
09:51<alluke>weird how ln isnt happy when his country succeeds in sports
09:52<frosch123>alluke: he's a spy, he is actually hungarian
09:52<alluke>hah
09:53<alluke>does whois tell his spy name then? :P
09:53<__ln__>alluke: success in sports results in anarchy on the streets.
09:53<alluke>lol
09:53<alluke>i love the anarchy
09:53<alluke>like in 2011
09:53<alluke>i was there in helsinki
09:54<alluke>super fun
09:54<frosch123>helsinki 2011 - what kind of movie is that?
09:54<alluke>no movie
09:54<frosch123>does it involve zombies?
09:54<__ln__>the best part of it when the team returned to finland by plane, and were so drunk some of them couldn't properly walk out of the plane.
09:55<alluke>but there were 100k people on the streets :D
09:55<alluke>yes xD
09:55<frosch123>duty free on board? :p
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09:56<__ln__>i don't want people to think professional sports isn't all about drinking.
09:58<alluke>i didnt drink anything in 2011
09:58<__ln__>i wasn't talking about you but the athletes.
09:58<alluke>cmon
09:58<alluke>they deserve it
09:59<alluke>work hard party hard
09:59<LordAro>in my experience, most of the 'famous' professional sports players never actually work hard
09:59<LordAro>e.g. english premier league
10:01<@planetmaker>probably that's why German teams play in Wembley :-P
10:01<@planetmaker>they drank more ;-)
10:02*LordAro doesn't actually follow football much at all
10:02*planetmaker usually doesn't too much either. But it was kinda unescapable so far here
10:02<LordAro>it usually is :L
10:03<LordAro>(is unescapable)
10:03<@planetmaker>true
10:08<alluke>dark chocolate with orange and crisps
10:08<alluke>not bad
10:09<NGC3982>I'm so going to get sued.
10:09<alluke>why
10:11<LordAro>did you make a rectangular phone?
10:12<alluke>lovely weather outside and im wasting my life here
10:17<oskari89>alluke: you took my word
10:17<oskari89>Why i'm sitting here
10:18<alluke>sucks to live in an apartment house
10:18<alluke>going outside with laptop would be better than this
10:18<NGC3982>I was uploading a few dj sets on Soundcloud with a pseudonyme
10:19<NGC3982>I haven't really checked the copyright guidelines out..
10:19<alluke>3-0
10:19<alluke>eat that austria
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11:04<MNIM>Hmmmh.
11:05<MNIM>How did you specify the town names language again?
11:05<@Alberth>in the game options, a dropdown
11:12<@planetmaker>And if you want NewGRF townnames: first add that in the NewGRF settings. Then choose the or a townname set provided by that in the game options
11:12<@planetmaker>tedious tbh
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11:42<LordAro>huh, power went out
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11:45<MNIM>Alberth: Yeah, but that was all grayed out in a running game
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11:56<@planetmaker>of course
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12:07<alluke>fin-aus 7-2 XD
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12:35<@Alberth>People really hate it when you suddenly rename all towns and cities
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12:47<@planetmaker>openttd also hates accessed null pointers ;-)
12:55<@Terkhen>hello
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13:03<@Alberth>hi Terkhen
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25234 trunk/src/lang/russian.txt (2013-05-11 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 2 changes by perk11
13:45<perk11>:O
13:48<@Alberth>one entire commit for you! :)
13:51<@planetmaker>:-)
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14:08<@planetmaker>hm... my terrain file still had windows palette. What a pain to properly convert :S
14:08<@Alberth>write a Python script
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14:09<frosch123>yeah, there are two dozen programs to convert palettes :) write a new one
14:09<@Alberth>or fix NML :p
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14:09<frosch123>personally i advertise ttdviewer :)
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14:10<@planetmaker>Alberth, NML auto-converts to DOS, whatever palette it finds (except if there's only windows input)
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14:10<@planetmaker>frosch123, it does read and write zillion-layer gimp files? :D
14:10<frosch123>oh, no :p
14:11<@planetmaker>I actually use ttdviewer to check results :-)
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14:11<frosch123>\o/
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14:19<@planetmaker>@seen pikka
14:19<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: pikka was last seen in #openttd 7 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Pikka> I do not want to watch a half-hour video for the one little piece of information I need and which probably isn't in there anyway
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14:32<alluke>!oskari89 whats that talgo
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16:34<oskari89>Alluke: http://www.talgo.com/pdf/T22in.pdf
16:34<oskari89>See yourself
16:34<alluke>lol
16:35<alluke>why not work on something more important
16:35<alluke>like dr14
16:35<oskari89>Was meant to be Sm5 http://vaunut.org/kuvat/?tt=11&i1=KOEV&i2=999055
16:36<oskari89>I put that priority to low
16:36<oskari89>No need to hurry
16:37<alluke>why did vr choose flirt instead of that
16:37<oskari89>Price? :P
16:38<oskari89>Plug-and play?
16:38<oskari89>I think those were deciding factors
16:39<alluke>flirt has shorter loading times
16:39<alluke>and it looks better :P
16:39<oskari89>Compare Edo to that Talgo22 cab unit
16:40<oskari89>See any similarity? ;)
16:40<alluke>hahahcopycats :D
16:41<alluke>but i liked the concept drawing more
16:41<alluke>if only i could find it
16:41<alluke>http://www.vrgroup.fi/images/5i1M6efAu/5xOlaL80R/Ohjaamovaunu_keula_small.jpg
16:43<@Terkhen>good night
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17:54<Wolf01>'night
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20:04<alluke>whos awake
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20:05<Nothing4You>nobody
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21:39<Starmie>man
21:39<Starmie>i just forgot my username on the forums
21:39<Starmie>*pokerface*
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---Logclosed Sun May 12 00:00:00 2013