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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-05-25

---Logopened Sat May 25 00:00:28 2013
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02:11<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:45<Aridorn>is there an admin around?
03:46<Aridorn>the citybuilder server for 4k goal is bugged and wont reset, even though its a couple of hours ago someone reached the goal
03:53<@planetmaker>you should try to contact the admins of that server...
03:53<@planetmaker>not sure they're (ever) here
03:54<@planetmaker>besides "citybuilder" is hardly a unique server describtion ;-)
03:55<@planetmaker>at least three completely different servers bear that in the name
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03:57<@planetmaker>they surely have a website
03:59<Aridorn>i found where they have their IRC
03:59<Aridorn>ill check there
03:59<Aridorn>thx for responding
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04:49<@Alberth>hmm, why would you want partial loading? it makes so little sense to me
05:16<@planetmaker>Alberth, it makes sense from a service perspective. Consider a setup like
05:17<@planetmaker>mine1 ---- mine2 ----- steel plant
05:17<@planetmaker>you want to pickup 50% at mine1, 50% at mine2 and then return to steel plant
05:17<@planetmaker>thus you regularily pickup at each station (good for rating), but still deliver quickly without the train standing there, loading for ages
05:17<@Alberth>2 trains: mine1 -> mine2 (a short one), and mine2 -> steel plant (long one) ?
05:17<@planetmaker>it makes sense for low to intermediate prod. levels
05:18<@planetmaker>of course, that works
05:18<@planetmaker>or conditional orders with like (if load% > 80 --> goto steel plant; otherwise goto mine2). But less nice
05:18<@planetmaker>and your suggestion needs 2 trains. while load% needs one
05:19<@planetmaker>thus if you play for the original points you can gain (performance graph), feeder services are not necessarily good
05:19<@Alberth>with firs farms, I usually have trucks driving around between them until they are sufficiently loaded
05:19<@planetmaker>as profit annually for that kind < 20k
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05:20<@Alberth>well, ok. we need extended orders, probably :)
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05:25<@planetmaker>maybe :-)
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>man this certificate thing is annoying. how long does it take to renew a certificate?
05:28<TinoDidriksen>SSL/TLS? A few minutes.
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05:50<Eddi|zuHause>TinoDidriksen: it was rather a rhethorical question :p
05:50<TinoDidriksen>I know.
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06:03<alluke>how to mod devzone issues
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06:06<Eddi|zuHause>there's a very hidden "edit description" button
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>click on "edit" on the bottom, and then above the comment section, there's a property section
06:10<alluke>could you provide a screenshot?
06:11<frosch123>what's the best newgrf/nml link to give to someone who submits a townname patch to fs?
06:12<frosch123>i have some shaded memory about a townname howto somewhere
06:13<@Rubidium>frosch123: ? ;)
06:14<frosch123>Alberth: you seem to be a manager of that project. can you please fix the "homepage" link
06:15<alluke>when i right click the issue theres edit but its greyed out
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06:16<@Alberth>no idea I was manager of that :)
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm, whole news is full of football stuff :/
06:19<frosch123>yeah, though wcs ro8 is way more interesting
06:23<@Alberth>nice, I cannot change the ticket status, or close old ones :p
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06:52<@planetmaker>which issues, Alberth , alluke ?
06:52<alluke>one i made some time ago
06:52<alluke>then i realized i forgot to add something in it
06:53<@planetmaker>just reply / update the issue, alluke
06:53<alluke>id like to put it into the same window
06:53<@planetmaker>update button is top right. Above the issue description. below the main menu(s)
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06:54<@planetmaker>you likely cannot edit your postings there, if you're not admin or manager of that project
06:54<alluke>i gotta ask if i can get promoted
06:55<@planetmaker>generally it's not recommended to edit replies there... Just add a new one
06:55<alluke>why not
06:55<@planetmaker>it's not like it opens a new "window"
06:55<@planetmaker>it's just a new reply. Like in any forum
06:55<@planetmaker>added below previous replies
06:55<alluke>but in forums you can edit your posts
06:57<@planetmaker>Alberth, "townnames" is more of a meta-project. To edit an issue assigned to a sub-project you probably need be manager / developer of that (too)
06:57<@planetmaker>alluke, yes. For a day or so
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07:02<@planetmaker>Alberth, anything in particular you want / need?
07:04<@Alberth>no, I was just trying to delete old compiler failure messages
07:04<@planetmaker>he :-)
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07:27<Samu>anyone from yesterday here?
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07:32<Mazur>No, they all went to the beach to play with eachother.
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07:40<Samu>so nobody liked it
07:41<V453000>frosch123: do you watch wcs? :)
07:41<Samu>what is wcs?
07:42<frosch123>yup :)
07:43<Samu>it shows starcraft 2
07:43<Samu>didn't buy heart of the swarm
07:43<Samu>screw blizzard
07:44<frosch123>i do now even have wol. you do not need to play the game to watch it
07:44<frosch123>i played bw
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07:45<Samu>i'm not bothering anymore with blizzard titles
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>i watched this for 2 minutes, and didn't understand a single word
07:45<frosch123>you can code ottd in parallel to watching it, but you cannot code in paralel to playing
07:45<frosch123>easy decision
07:45<Samu>they let diablo 2 rot
07:46<Samu>they released diablo 3 with some auction house... rip before it was even out
07:46<Samu>stupid greed
07:47<Samu>last i've heard they want to port it to consoles
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>what's wrong with consoles?
07:48<frosch123>i've heard xbox one presentation was quite entertaining
07:48<frosch123>though not in a positive sense
07:48<Samu>controlling characters already retarded on d3
07:48<Samu>now I see why
07:48<Samu>they want to port it to consoles
07:49<Samu>good luck with that...
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>i never played diabolo, so i've no clue what all the fuzz is about
07:49<Samu>it is about switching skills
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07:50<Eddi|zuHause>a friend recently recommended to me a diabolo-esque game called "path of exile"
07:50<Wolf01>gah, skyrim crashed again :(
07:50<Samu>on d2 i could switch skills on a whim, at any time
07:50<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: every generation has to learn that a sequel to anything does not necessarily match the style of the earlier stuff
07:50<frosch123>some learn it with settlers, some with matrix, some with diablo
07:50<Samu>on d3, to switch skills, i have to confirm with some delay, up to 5 simultaneous skill choices
07:51<Samu>that's so dumb
07:51<Samu>no real freedom to control our skills
07:53<V453000>may I ask which game developer company is not idiots in your eyes?
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07:53<V453000>cause in my eyes blizzard is miles ahead of anyone else in game quality
07:53<Samu>i have no idea
07:53<V453000>I can see that
07:53<Samu>blizzard quality declined greatly
07:54<Samu>since wow
07:54<Eddi|zuHause> <-- anyway, i found this rather entertaining the past few weeks
07:54<V453000>starcraft 2 is excellent
07:54<Samu>whoever played their games since tthe start
07:54<Samu>just knows blizzard is more greedy that ever before
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no idea how it compares to diabolo 2 or 3
07:54<Samu>feature that were granted were taken away on their next titles only to be re-introduced like they're something new
07:55<V453000>ok, so starcraft 2 is uncontested by any other RTS game, but you complain that blizzard is "greedy" which I honestly dont even understand what is it supposed to mean by you
07:55<Samu>sc2 is contested by lol
07:56<V453000>lol isnt rts, lol is moba
07:56<frosch123>lol is contested by dota 2
07:56<V453000>which isnt even remotely similar
07:56<frosch123>but yeah, comparing lol with sc2 is quite silly
07:56<V453000>and/or hon, as frosch said
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>now you're just making up random 2 letter abbreviations
07:57<V453000>btw I actually bought sc2 + hots frosch123 :P totally worth it, it is amazing
07:57<Samu>sc2 better because everyone buys it nowadays
07:57<Samu>but there is not anything worthy out there anyway
07:57<V453000>:D ok
07:57<Samu>it's like it's the only thing
07:57<frosch123>V453000: i've been watching sc2 since wol beta (that's 4 years?), but never got around to buy it .p
07:58<Samu>deemd to be called RTS
07:58<V453000>so which real time strategy is worth it? :D
07:58<V453000>frosch123: me too, but bought it a month ago :)
07:58<V453000>the campaign is awesome, and I am not even mentioning all the multiplayer stuff
07:59<V453000>well, and why is there no other RTS Samu? Oh could it be because nobody even dares to contest sc2?
07:59<Samu>I don't know what to say
07:59<V453000>because other companies would have to spend so much money and so much research into how to actually make a better game than that?
07:59<Samu>the SC2 feels more like C&C
07:59<Samu>feels not really a successful title for Brood War
08:00<Samu>not the same feel
08:00<V453000>do you even know what C&C specifics are
08:00<Samu>feels more fast paced but also more reckless
08:00<V453000>(a title which EA releases, and since then does not care about it at all)
08:00<V453000>quality of any C&C game is uncomparable to what blizzard brings any of their game with patches to
08:00<Samu>less skill needed to it
08:01<_aD>Quality of any C&C game is comparable to what year it was released in :-)
08:01<Samu>C&C are always bad titles
08:02<V453000>tiberium wars was amazing when it came out
08:02<Samu>SC2 was approaching the feel of C&C
08:02<V453000>but after 1 year, all of the top players left
08:02<Samu>not the feel of BW
08:02<Samu>that's it
08:02<V453000>by what do you judge that sc2 has the feel of cnc? :D
08:02<Samu>by playing both
08:02<V453000>that it has 3d graphics?
08:02<alluke>is there any mp-compatible patchpack that supports 1.2.0 and above?
08:02<Samu>played C&C 3
08:03<Samu>played TFT
08:03<Samu>played SCBW
08:03<V453000>I played cnc3 competitively, please tell me more
08:03<Samu>and SC2 WOL
08:03<Samu>all these playing styles
08:04<V453000>cnc3 has absolutely different playing style than sc
08:04<Samu>TFT and SCBW for example really seem like they're coming right
08:04<Samu>they aren't too fast to get things, just precise
08:04<V453000>all you do in cnc is do some build and hope opponent doesnt do what is good against it, because the pace is so fast that you cant even scout it soon enough
08:05<Samu>there are ways to go around the enemy in multiple ways
08:05<Samu>yes, the counter
08:05<V453000>yes, but the counter is not reactive, it is just guessing and hoping
08:05<Samu>cnc3 seems to have a counter system but units that fit multiple roles at the same time
08:05<V453000>where starcraft is a reactive game
08:06<Samu>the counter system pales
08:06<V453000>it is irrelevant which units there are, that doesnt matter
08:06<Samu>and sc2 wol does seem to have several units that do way too much
08:06<Samu>they feel reckless
08:07<Samu>they are units that can do much damage without much effort
08:07<V453000>so you are saying that sc2 is unbalanced
08:07<Samu>but to counter them
08:07<V453000>good luck justifying that
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08:07<Samu>yes maybe
08:07<V453000>atm all 3 races have the same winrate
08:07<V453000>how come?
08:07<V453000>how come Every other strategy game has less balanced races?
08:07<Samu>the same winrate but when looking
08:07<Samu>what made them win
08:08<V453000>how does it matter how you win
08:08<Samu>it is just a bit reckless, or that it was obvious
08:08<frosch123>yeah, samu has a point. i always thought it's just protoss players being stupid
08:08<Samu>from beginnign
08:08<frosch123>noone sane would play protoss :p
08:08<Samu>or from somewhere at some point in the game
08:08<Samu>it was just delaying
08:08<Samu>the innevitable
08:09<Samu>game was over already at some point, and not expected to change
08:09<Samu>it is just being delayed
08:09<V453000>lets give an example
08:09<Samu>no real surprises
08:10<Samu>like dealing with terran expansions
08:10<V453000>cnc3 at the time of patch 1.09 which was the final one, had One player playing Scrin race in top 100, about 60 Nod players, and about 40 GDI
08:10<V453000>sc2 has 33 33 33
08:10<V453000>please tell me sc2 is poorly balanced
08:10<Samu>or dealing to mmm
08:10<Samu>a nonstop flowing of mmm
08:10<Samu>dealing with it is an hassle
08:11<V453000>frosch123: protoss have their playing style, playing protoss well isnt easy at all
08:11<frosch123>V453000: sorry for trolling :)
08:11<Samu>protoss feeks weak against this
08:11<Samu>they kill them tons
08:12<V453000>50-50 PvT means they kill them tons
08:12<V453000>I understand
08:12<Samu>but it's just that they just keep coming eveywhere and it feels
08:12<Samu>it's not going to stop soon
08:12<V453000>there is always something you can do against every and each thing
08:12<Samu>but protoss also needs to expand and take care of the map if it want to win
08:12<V453000>if your opponent has 6 bases and you have 2, yes you probably fucked up earlier
08:12<frosch123>anyway, balance is not decided by the units, but by the maps
08:12<Samu>just not defending
08:13<Samu>terran feels more reckless this way
08:13<V453000>so what you are saying is that protoss cant expand ... makes sense
08:13<V453000>surely zerg cant expand either
08:13<Samu>they can
08:13<Samu>but they're always on defensive
08:13<frosch123>forge - fast expand - or die trying :)
08:14<V453000>protoss are always on defensive?
08:14<V453000>how about 100+1 2 base agression builds?
08:14<frosch123>yeah, blink stalkers and recall are completely defensive :)
08:14<V453000>6-7 minute timing attacks?
08:14<V453000>4+ gate attacks?
08:14<Samu>thats pvz
08:14<V453000>that is pv anything
08:15<frosch123>i thought wol pvz is broodlord vs. vortex? :p
08:15<Samu>well i dont follow proscene much
08:15<V453000>also, when you get protoss deathball of units, it is fucking hard to win a game
08:15<V453000>esp as terran
08:15<V453000>I wonder what do you follow Samu
08:15<Samu>deathballs are lame
08:15<Samu>that's what i can call reckless
08:16<Samu>takes much effort to fight against
08:16<V453000>sure, then you do different style than late game army composition
08:16<V453000>warp prism, ...
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08:16<Samu>feels like 200/200 vs 200/200
08:16<V453000>you should consider to learn something about the game first maybe
08:16<Samu>no fun to watch
08:17<Samu>no fun to play against
08:17<Samu>way different than in bw
08:17<V453000>because you have no clue?
08:17<V453000>it isnt about 200/20
08:17<Samu>bw 200/200 was nearly non-existant
08:17<Samu>if there was no unit cap
08:17<V453000>I didnt say bw is the same as sc2
08:17<Samu>there would be a balance issue
08:17<V453000>but 200/200 was very common in bw just as well
08:17<Samu>it would be more obvious
08:18<Samu>not really
08:18<V453000>says you based on?
08:18<V453000>"you cannot have 17 control groups of zerglings, zerg is a bad race"
08:19<V453000>or some similar logic?
08:19<Samu>i remember 200/200 was rare
08:19<V453000>where was it rare
08:19<V453000>in your games?
08:20<Samu>maybe except protoss
08:20<Samu>i dont know why you want proof
08:20<Samu>it just feels that way
08:20<Samu>bw wasn't as easy to play
08:21<V453000>and that is an argument for?
08:21<Samu>it had much more opportunities
08:21<Samu>to engage in fights
08:21<frosch123>the term "easy" does not exist in a human vs. human game
08:21<V453000>of course, it had different controlling, so it was technically harder to play
08:21<Samu>in different ways
08:21<Samu>and have some degree of success
08:21<V453000>as frosch said
08:21<Samu>than in sc2
08:22<Samu>more variety
08:22<V453000>blizzard is bad for making the 2 best strategy games
08:23<Samu>it's being carried away by younger ppl
08:23<V453000>regardless which is better in your opinion. But technically if you look at the amount of features, sc2 is clearly a worthy successor to me
08:23<Samu>they have little idea what bw was
08:23<Samu>and also because every other RTS titlle is just crap
08:23<V453000>XD oh the old man argument
08:23<V453000>In my time it was better!
08:23<Samu>maybe except those Lol-kinda RTS
08:24<V453000>moba is NOT RTS
08:24<Samu>which in my opinion suck
08:24<V453000>at all
08:24<V453000>by any logic, by any sense, they have nothing in common
08:24<Samu>but they get ppl playing it
08:24<Samu>way too many ppl playing mobas like u say
08:24<V453000>so what? :D how is it related to RTS that people play some other genre?
08:25<V453000>it still doesnt put starcraft 2 to being a bad game
08:25<V453000>to me you are just a whiny bitch to who are all games bad, the only thing which is good was the good old times
08:26<Samu>sc2 is a good game because they haven't heard of any better, because there's also nothing better
08:26<Samu>so yes
08:26<V453000>because nobody made anything better?
08:26<Samu>old times bw is/was better than sc2
08:26<Samu>live with what you have
08:26<V453000>therefore Which company is better than blizzard if No company made the better thing, or even TRY to make something better because they knew the investment would be huge?
08:27<Samu>blizzard is GREEDY
08:27<Samu>until you don't get it
08:27<Samu>you'll keep saying blizzard is best
08:27<V453000>what does it even mean greedy
08:27<Samu>you look like someone who's gonna buy the 3 sc2 titles
08:27<V453000>to me greedy means making shit quality game, selling it for a lot of money, not upkeeping it and moving onto another shit title, same routine
08:27<Samu>and shove out €180~
08:27<Samu>good for you
08:28<Samu>not for me
08:28<V453000>yes, because they are so high quality that they are worth the money
08:28<Samu>because there's no one better
08:28<Samu>so u must spend the €180
08:28<V453000>what do you buy?
08:28<Samu>that's it
08:28<TinoDidriksen>Whether they are greedy or not doesn't have to affect whether the games are good. Only care where their greed has ruined a game so far is D3.
08:29<V453000>I dont know much about D3 but that indeed probably wasnt the most successful thing
08:29<V453000>I am more interested in Samu telling me what is worth his money, if sc2 is overly expensive
08:29<V453000>so far it seems like nothing
08:29<V453000>because of which blizzard is a greedy and bad company
08:30<Samu>features like clans in sc2
08:30<Samu>something that did exist way before
08:30<Samu>or even global play
08:30<Samu>that kind of crap they call "new features"
08:30<Samu>that did exist before on bw
08:30<Samu>or tft
08:30<V453000>yes, and they implement them as well, and in a great fashion
08:30<TinoDidriksen>SC2:HotS wasn't a full price game anyway. It was an expansion, and priced as such.
08:30<Samu>or d2
08:30<frosch123>oh, yeah, 1990's stunts also had replays
08:30<Samu>that's where greed
08:31<Samu>comes into
08:31<Samu>that's it
08:31<Samu>for me
08:31<V453000>which company is not greedy
08:31<frosch123>Samu: anyway, as long as you say everything is bad, you look like a darn douchbag
08:31<V453000>WHICH game is you purchase because it is worth it
08:31<Samu>but the new kids in the block thing "wow awesome blizzard, i will lick ur ass!"
08:31<Samu>and will buy
08:31<V453000>which one
08:32<Samu>right now? nothing
08:32<V453000>there we go
08:32<Samu>no game worth buying
08:32<Samu>last game I bought was SC2 wol
08:32<Samu>and it was such a disappointment there was not even chat channels
08:32<Samu>only introduced later on as a "new feature!"... oh sure
08:33<frosch123>and, did you have to pay for the upgrade?
08:33<@Terkhen>most people welcome new free features in their games :P
08:33<V453000>you arguments dont even make sense, you are comparing companies between each other (supposedly by saying one company is greedy), but you say that all of them are absolutely bad
08:33<V453000>then you say that fixing things with patches is bad
08:33<Samu>they sold you a sc2 beta but ok...
08:33<Samu>sold me*
08:33<Samu>i am locked to 1 acount
08:34<V453000>you could also say that blizzard games are always beta
08:34<V453000>because they always keep improving them as much as they can
08:34<V453000>with patches
08:34<Samu>i can now go to other regions becase the community complained about their DRM crap
08:34<frosch123>every software is beta
08:34<frosch123>if it is not, it is unsupported
08:34<Samu>or today we'd still be region locked
08:34<@Terkhen>I'm quite sure you could have known about that before buying the game; you bought what they were selling
08:34<Samu>there is no lan play or oflline play
08:34<@Terkhen>I did know about what you are mentioning before I bought it, for example
08:34<Samu>but the new kids dont care about it
08:35<Samu>they were grown up with internet already
08:35<Samu>what is a lan for them... bah
08:35<V453000>how is lan or offline play relevant nowadays?
08:35<V453000>especially in this discussion as you are just naming features in a discussion about gaming companies being bad, thus one of them is the worst
08:36<Samu>they are selling stuff as new feature which were supposed to be taken from granted
08:36<Samu>but k
08:36<V453000>either way, enough of this conversation. You are just a butt-hurt asshole who decrees that everything is wrong, therefore the best products have their cost wrong.
08:36<V453000>sc2 wont have lan ever
08:36<Samu>their loss
08:37<V453000>no, fuck this
08:37<V453000>not worth my time
08:37<Samu>d3 requires internet to play single player
08:37<Samu>same as simcity
08:37<Samu>now everyone says simcity SUUUUUUCKS
08:38<Samu>but d3 is still great
08:38<Samu>can't play d3 in a lan
08:39<Samu>i'm limited to 8 characters
08:39<Samu>in constrast, d2 i could play single player
08:39<Samu>I could play on a lan
08:39<Samu>I can make 593453489'573489'5238' charactes on
08:39<frosch123>@kban samu 100000 it's getting boring
08:39-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
08:39-!-Samu was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [it's getting boring]
08:40<frosch123>yay! dimaga!
08:40<V453000>awesome, especially like how happy he was
08:40<V453000>if you watched shoutcraft US, it was wtf
08:40<V453000>the winner in finals didnt even SMILE
08:40<V453000>he was like, ok I won
08:42<V453000> 1 hour 43 minutes
08:42<frosch123>i hardly watch us events
08:42<V453000>I like how TB casts :)
08:43<V453000>by the way
08:43<V453000>d.Apollo was the absolute number 1 in cnc3:tiberium wars
08:43<V453000>he was the only one able to play the alien race in top 100
08:43<V453000>was like wtf :D
08:44<frosch123>he, did not know about his background :)
08:44<frosch123>and i have no idea about c&c
08:44<V453000>he was always around bw/sc
08:48<V453000>YEAH :D emotions :)
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09:07<Samu>stupid ban
09:07<Samu>i want to talk with what I did yesterday
09:08<Samu>was it worth it?
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10:51<@Alberth>don't be surprised, it's only me :)
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10:52<@Alberth>moin mister B
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10:55<@Belugas>i'm not there, i'm a ghost in my machine!!
10:55<@Belugas>in fact, office called for support :(
10:55<@Belugas>but hello anyway!
11:02*Alberth hopes the amount of support is small
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11:36<@Rubidium>oh, Belugas found a way to get some rest in the weekend? :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25285 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2013-05-25 17:45:08 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 1 changes by telk5093
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14:26<Samu>i found a bug - i can't autoreplace some trains because they weren't mine at first, they were from a company i bought out
14:26<Samu>bug or intentional
14:29<@Rubidium>what makes you think that is actually the case?
14:34<Samu>all my trains, those that were really mine did autoreplace
14:35<Samu>those that were from the company I bought didn't
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>using groups?
14:36<Samu>no, normal
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>we'll need a savegame to check your claims
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>preferably one from before and after the autoreplace
14:37<Samu>omg, they are replaced now... I don't get it
14:37<Samu>but it took some years
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>probably they did not find their way to the depot
14:37<@Rubidium>"only autoreplace when old enough to autorenew"?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>is that a feature?
14:38<Samu>i used the train list autoreplace
14:39<Samu>mine did replace way earlier
14:39<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yup
14:39<Samu>these took 2 or 3 years
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>i probably missed a few things in the last months
14:40<Samu>I'm not sure what to say now
14:40<Samu>my error maybe
14:40<Samu>but that much time :8
14:41<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: all 13+ of them?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>i saw something about linkgraph
14:42<@Rubidium>@commit 24136
14:42<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by michi_cc :: r24136 /trunk/src (14 files in 4 dirs) (2012-04-17 19:44:02 UTC)
14:42<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: -Feature [FS#4465]: Autoreplace vehicles only when they get old. (Vikthor)
14:42<Samu>no i ordered to replace, "now"
14:43<Samu>not the "when old" option
14:48<Samu>I will test something
14:48<Samu>a company with autorenew turned on and a company with autorenew off
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14:48<Samu>autorenew off goes bankrupt with trains, autorenew on buys autorenew off trains
14:49<Samu>what should happen when I order to autoreplace?
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>you have any test cases for your wild and abstruse theories?
14:54<Samu>no, just observations
14:55<Samu>2 years game time is about 20 minutes, it took them way more time than I expected
14:55<Samu>to replace
14:55<Supercheese>you mightn't have enough depots easily accessible
14:55<Supercheese>It will take a long time to autoreplace if your trains can't find a depot
14:56<Samu>there was a depot , those trains did go past it several times, so i assumed they wouldn't be autoreplaced
14:57<Samu>I notice they have a service interval of 135 days
14:57<Samu>mine have 150
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15:00<Samu>I will attempt a new company on this server with some different settings on autorenew
15:06<Samu>to who do I send savegame?
15:07<Samu>oh wait, this is browser irc
15:07<Supercheese>Post it on forums/bugtracker/etc.
15:07<Supercheese>then post the link here
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15:20<Samu>i ordered to replace floss 47 to sh 125, do you need a savegame for this too?
15:20<Samu>that floss 47 from the bankrupted company
15:21<Samu>with autoreplace settings as off
15:22<Samu>it went past the depot 4 times already, not replaced yet
15:24<Samu>serviced now
15:24<Samu>and replaced
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>the service interval must run out first
15:26<Samu>so odd
15:26<Samu>i cant reproduce
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>maybe your bought-out trains had extremely long service interval?
15:27<Samu>it had a long loading at the station
15:27<Samu>but interval was 135 days
15:28<Samu>64 tonnes of wood a month forest with a train full loading 330 tonnes
15:29<Samu>and another train full loading livestock and grain
15:29<Samu>from a nearly dead farm
15:29<Samu>dang, sorry my error I bet
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>in any case, the probability of "buying out" the company being the cause is near 0
15:34<Samu>I had a similar behaviour with helicopters before
15:34<Samu>but meh...
15:36<Samu>it just doesn't happen when I want it to happen for proof
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>(the two concepts have largely the same meaning, although the second one is more specific to software, where the first one can be applied to a wide range of technical or non-technical issues)
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>like, if a physics teacher presents an experiment before class, and it goes wrong, he might claim it's the "Vorführeffekt" ("presentation effect")
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>usually implying that it worked in trial runs
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15:51<Samu>what I noticed with helicopters was when they were old already
15:51<Samu>all my other vehicles were black-numbered, but helicopters were red-numbered, and only helicopters
15:52<Samu>never replaced
15:56<Samu>planes were black-numbered
15:56<Samu>it was only specific to helicopter
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>they need a hangar at least on one airport they visit
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16:26<wallmani>hello, i am working on an AI for the game, and for some reason when i put the info.nut and main.nut files to /usr/share/openttd/ai/MyNewAI it does not get recognized by openttd
16:26<V453000>side question: who is the cause of files having .nut extension?
16:27<@Rubidium>V453000: the guy who wrote squirrel?
16:27<V453000>XD squirrel?
16:27<wallmani>yeah, this is specifically for AI
16:27<wallmani>yeah, it's a C++-like language
16:27<wallmani>specifically for AI
16:28<V453000>so there is an actual squirrel which eats nuts
16:28<@Rubidium>wallmani: by default openttd is installed into /usr/local/, so that's also the path where to place those files
16:28<@Rubidium>although ~/.openttd/ai might be an easier location
16:29<wallmani>ah, for some reason archlinux put it in /usr/share/openttd/
16:29<frosch123>V453000: <- see top left
16:29<wallmani>i put it in ~/.openttd/downloaded_content/ai before that
16:30<V453000>nice enough
16:30<wallmani>that still does not work
16:30<wallmani>well let me try ~/.openttd/ai
16:31<wallmani>did not help
16:32<@Rubidium>wallmani: if you start openttd -dscript=9, do you get any output?
16:33<wallmani>ah, i see it now
16:33<wallmani>The script 'MyNewAI' returned a string from GetShortName() which is not four characaters. Unable to load the script.
16:33<wallmani>i did not know about that one, thank you!
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16:44<wallmani>ah, this is great
16:44<wallmani>everything works well now
16:49<Samu>i discovered something about helicopters
16:49<Samu>when they land on a heliport
16:49<Samu>their last service is updated
16:50<Samu>they don't enter a depot
16:50<Samu>let me try airport
16:51<@Rubidium>that's a configurable feature
16:52<Samu>so that's why they don't get replaced
16:52<@Rubidium>or rather probably
16:53<@Rubidium>autorenew happens when the vehicle thinks: heh, I should service
16:53<@Rubidium>if it's serviced on heliports, it never gets into that state
16:53<@Rubidium>otherwise a failed autorenew (money or so), would just keep vehicles circling for the depot
16:54<Samu>doesn't happen on airport
16:54<Samu>ty for info
16:55<Samu>trying helidepot
16:57<Samu>aha helidepot
16:57<Samu>touches land: tada it's serviced
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16:58<Samu>but there's a depot
16:58<Samu>never autorenews the
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>because it's constantly serviced, the service interval never runs out
17:05<Samu>service helicopters at helipads automaticaly? so this is what it does
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>how would americans find words to name these numbers?
17:06<Samu>I was always wondering what it was for
17:06<Supercheese>Past "quadrillion", I have no idea
17:06<Supercheese>"quintillion" perhaps
17:06<Supercheese>"hexillion" sounds dumb
17:07<Supercheese>"sextillion" sounds no less dumb, though
17:08<Supercheese>Past quintillion, I figure most people would stick to scientific notation
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>"Hex" is the wrong language
17:08<Supercheese>7.523 x 10^20 or whatnot
17:09<Supercheese>"Even well-established names like sextillion are rarely used, since in the contexts of science, astronomy, and engineering, where such large numbers often occur, they are nearly always written using scientific notation."
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>sure, but then you lose the notation of precision to whole numbers
17:11<Samu>it services at oil rigs too
17:12<frosch123>maybe it runs with raw oil
17:12<frosch123>crude oil?
17:12<Samu>heliport, helidepot, helistation
17:12<Samu>and oil rig
17:12<Supercheese>Waste oil-fired helicopters
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>and not the heliports at real airports?
17:13<Samu>it goes to hangar
17:13<Nat_aS>Eddi|zuHause scientific notation has all the presision you need
17:13<Samu>or just doen't refresh service date
17:13<Nat_aS>you only use as many significant figures as your measurement can accurately give you, and chop the rest off.
17:14<Samu>i have to try different sized airports
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>may be the "service at heliport" codepath should get a check for "but go to next hangar if autoreplace is set"?
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably tricky, because you can't be sure there's a hangar anywhere
17:17<Samu>when do imbacontinental airports become available?
17:17<Supercheese>I'd just tell all the helicopters that need to be autoreplaced to go for servicing, just using the dropdown on the group page
17:17<Supercheese>2-3 clicks
17:18<Supercheese>removes any ambiguity about servicing
17:21<Samu>alright, just built 1 aircraft station of every type, let's see which ones services the helicopter
17:22<Samu>intercontinental does
17:22<Samu>helicopter lands on helipad and becomes serviced
17:23<Samu>next one is international
17:24<Samu>city airport
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>so likely everything that has a dedicated heliport will service the helicopter
17:25<Samu>did not service
17:25<Samu>it looks so
17:26<Samu>did not service
17:26<Supercheese>so the commuter airport will service and small will not
17:26<Supercheese>based on the data thus far
17:27<Samu>commuter: serviced at land touch
17:28<Samu>small: did not service
17:28<Supercheese>as expected
17:29<Samu>helistation: serviced at land touch
17:29<Samu>helidepot : serviced at land touch
17:30<Supercheese>that about covers it
17:30<Samu>heliport, serviced at land touch
17:30<Samu>oil rig the same
17:31<Samu>so... I usually have helistations and helidepots for helicopters
17:31<Samu>it doesn't renew them there even though there's a depot
17:33<Supercheese>Yeah, you'd best tell the group to service at a depot manually, then
17:33<Samu>i can turn that setting off
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>or just disable the setting
17:33<Samu>yes, bad setting
17:33<Samu>for me at least lol
17:33<Supercheese>Well, if you don't care about servicing, like if you have breakdowns off
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's from a time before the helistation/helidepot was introduced
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>so if you sent a helicopter from a heliport to an oil rig, it would never service
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>or you needed a large airport instead
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>(what is now the city airport)
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>over time, some new airports were introduced
17:36<Samu>I found my problem :)
17:37<Samu>intercontinental, international, helistation and helidepot were my problem
17:38<Samu>exactly what I had at that time in the game
17:40<Samu>do helicopters service now if there's no station with a depot with that setting off?
17:40<Samu>they fly off to a nearby airport or so?
17:40<Samu>no station with a depot in their order list*
17:44<Samu>cool, they are servicing at a depot
17:44<Samu>their orders only include heliports
17:45<Samu>but they're going to an hangar from somewhere
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17:46<Samu>let me try put the hangar at the other side of the world
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>there is probably no distance check
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>planes don't have a pathfinder like other vehicles do
17:48<Samu>funny, it wants to service halfway
17:48<Samu>after being serviced
17:48<Samu>so... it never resumes schedulle
17:48<Samu>haha i have to be cautious with this
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17:50<Samu>ah nah
17:50<Samu>it does not
17:50<Samu>it does 1 order at least
17:50<Samu>what if i have 2 hangars
17:51<Samu>in opposite directions
17:52<Samu>fast forward was fooling me
17:52<Samu>it is doing 1 order
17:52<Samu>then services
17:53<Samu>works flawless
17:54<Samu>this error is funny anyway
17:54<Samu>i reported it the other day
17:55<Samu>Can't send aircraft to hangar... Can't send aircraft to hangar...
17:55<Samu>I destroyed all hangars
17:58<Samu>it should tell me the real reason... unable to find any hangar?
17:58<Samu>a nearby hangar?
17:58<Samu>something like that
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18:47<LunaVorax>I'm not sure if this the right place to ask that, but I'm looking for help to get the music working under ArchLinux x86_64 using ALSA. I've installed and configured Timidity++ (and a soundfont) and it seems to work (the command "timidity file.mid" actually plays midi) but OpenTTD doesn't seems to notice it, even with parameter "-m extmidi" (I don't know if that helps). Does anyone have a suggestion for this problem?
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause>LunaVorax: does the game settings window show that you selected a music set?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>LunaVorax: and the jukebox is set to play?
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19:21<LunaVorax>Eddi|zuHause, the soundfont I was using was incompatible apparently
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---Logclosed Sun May 26 00:00:29 2013