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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-05-31

---Logopened Fri May 31 00:00:46 2013
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07:16<samu>hi all good afternon
07:17<samu>what is multi-threaded in ottd, is there a list for it, a topic?
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07:18<samu>saving a same?
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07:22<samu>im trying to test something, to push cpu usage as high as possible with openttd
07:22<samu>i'm able to get 24,99% peak
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07:23<samu>autosave + whole map screenshot
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>that is how many cores?
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>you can just press fast forward, you know
07:26<samu>8
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>so you maxed out 2 cores. great
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think there is much more you can do
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>cargodist may help :p
07:27<samu>fastforward shows some kernel time
07:27<samu>a red line
07:27<samu>what is kernel time?
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>time spent inside the windows kernel
07:28<samu>15.50%
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>probably display stuff
07:28<samu>with some pausing for autosave, red line disapears
07:28<samu>and cpu goes down to 12.50
07:29<samu>hmm not 12.50, apparenlty 14.60% sorry
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>fast forward should probably implement some kind of framedrop
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>so not every frame is drawn, speeding up some stuff
07:30<samu>gpu usage is spiky too
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>that probably depends on the graphics driver
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>and card capabilities
07:31<samu>radeon hd 6850
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>lots of 2D acceleration like 8bpp palette animation is taken out of cards, because not much stuff uses it anymore
07:32<samu>it's maybe windows aero?
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what that is
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07:41<samu>it's the transparency effects on windows borders, the blurr when 2 windows are on top of each other, the preview-animated screen when hovering minimized applications
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>kernel is driver stuff
07:42<samu>when i hover on openttd minimized, i see it animating
07:42<samu>a real-time preview
07:42<samu>:o
07:45<samu>i think this explains
07:45<samu>http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-is-Windows-Aero
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08:02<samu>a nice feature is this
08:02<samu>pess windows key + tab
08:03<samu>hold down windows key, then tab to circulate
08:04<samu>very funny to see, and every window is live-previewing
08:04<samu>of what 's happening
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>so basically it's windows' version of compositing
08:16<samu>yes, I don't know what compositing, but i guess so
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08:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, basically, every application writes its output to its own virtual screen, so the compositing manager can combine these outputs any way they want (mini-previews, transparency effects, wobbly windows, ...)
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09:23<samu>hi
09:24<samu>openttd crashed
09:24<samu>but not the kind of crash that creates crash files
09:25<samu>what do I do?
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09:28<samu>OpenTTD has stopped working
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09:32<samu>oops, sorry colosed windows by mistake
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09:34<samu>wait, i post a screenshot
09:36<samu>it appears to have crashed during autosave
09:38<zooks>what message?
09:39<@planetmaker>make it reproducable, samu
09:39<@planetmaker>"show us"
09:39<samu>OpenTTD
09:39<samu>OppenTTD has stopped working
09:39<@planetmaker>the "show us" should then happen in a bug report
09:39<@planetmaker>"has stopped working" doesn't qualify as show us
09:39<samu>A problem made this program to stop working correctly
09:39<@planetmaker>it needs a step-by-step guide on crashing it
09:40<samu>Windows will close the program and warn u if there's a possible solution available
09:40<samu>[Close Program]
09:41<samu>I see a still image, it was autosaving
09:41<samu>i see a newspaper, some AI celebrating stuff
09:41<samu>a train
09:41<samu>which savegame do I provide u?
09:41<samu>autosave
09:42<zooks>crash.sav crash.log and crash.png would be a good start
09:42<samu>those weren't created
09:42<samu>I have autosave0 to autosave15
09:42<samu>want them all?
09:42<zooks>go up 2 directories
09:42<zooks>are they there?
09:43<samu>yes, but they're from 29th, it was the crash I reported 2 days ago
09:43<samu>it wasn't this crash
09:43<zooks>which version are you using?
09:44<samu>OpenTTD 1.3.1-RC1 for windows 64-bit
09:44<zooks>so if you open autosave, it crashes?
09:44<samu>I haven't tried yet
09:44<samu>let me try
09:44<zooks>try :)
09:46<samu>the last autosave is exactly the same date as the crashed still image
09:46<samu>didn't crash
09:46<samu>should load the previous one?
09:46<samu>ok, 1 month away
09:46<samu>waiting
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09:47<samu>nop, didn't crash either
09:47<samu>so... hmmm
09:47<samu>I dunno what to do
09:47<zooks>if you can not reproduce then it is hard to fix
09:47<zooks>by the devs
09:48<samu>i set up a game on arctic 2048x2048 with 15 AIs and fastforwarded
09:49<samu>then went away
09:49<samu>when I came back windows came up with the error
09:49<samu>when I noticed
09:50<zooks>no crash.log?
09:51<samu>doesn't windows create a dump file?
09:51<zooks>I don't know anything about windows. I never use it
09:51<samu>crash.log is from 29th
09:52<samu>so not today
09:54<zooks>I'm out of options..
09:56<samu>i can't open skydrive... grrr my internet is too slow
10:03<samu>windows events logged something
10:03<samu>Nome da aplicação com falha: openttd.exe, versão: 1.3.1.25249, carimbo de data/hora: 0x51968462
10:03<samu>Nome do módulo com falha: openttd.exe, versão: 1.3.1.25249, carimbo de data/hora: 0x51968462
10:04<samu>Código de excepção: 0xc0000005
10:04<samu>pastebin.com
10:06<samu>http://pastebin.com/fS8Ndjfc
10:07<samu>is that of any use?
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10:13<samu>there's another log, sec...
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10:14<samu>here, this one is bigger : http://pastebin.com/EDcV7xcy
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10:43<samu>do you know what is Event ID: 1000? then Event ID: 1001?
10:44<samu>i'm trying to search on internet
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10:48<samu>meh nevermind, think it's not related
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11:02<samu>anyone here?
11:03<V453000>you seem to be a man of endless trouble :D
11:03<Sacro>someone call for endless trouble?
11:03<samu>yes, I was trying too look for a list of error codes
11:03<samu>what is 0x63c
11:07<samu>I'm so clueless
11:09<samu>EventType=APPCRASH
11:09<samu>Value=c0000005
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>did we ever have a bug report like this? https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/PYTHON-532 :p
11:09<samu>Value=00000000001c4548
11:09<samu>do you know what the error means?
11:10<samu>I'm still unable to open skydrive to upload... :8
11:11<@planetmaker>samu: bug reports belong into the bug tracker. not line by line here
11:11<samu>ok
11:11<V453000>holy hell Eddi :D
11:12<samu>but it limits to 8 MiB
11:12<samu>I have 111 MB to upload
11:13<@planetmaker>ehm. if you have 111MB to upload... something's wrong
11:13<samu>they're the autosaves
11:14<@planetmaker>an autosave of 111MB?!?!
11:14<samu>no, 16 autosaves total 111
11:14<V453000>lovely 2x2k I assume
11:14<@planetmaker>why does it need all 16?
11:15<samu>I don't know which one to send
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>the latest?
11:15<samu>the last one doesn't crash
11:15<@planetmaker>try to load. and see which crashes?
11:15<samu>the previous than that doesn't crash either
11:15<samu>ok
11:15<samu>but I hate to stop autosave
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>make a copy of the directory
11:16<samu>or they save on top of each other, how do i do this
11:16<V453000>well you seem to hate many things :)
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11:16<samu>have*
11:16<samu>ok
11:16<samu>let me try
11:17<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, reads like an awesome bug report. No I don't recall such :-)
11:18<samu>autosave failed
11:18<samu>it doesn't create the autosave folder?
11:18<V453000>Very Disappointed added a comment - May 31 2013 01:27:40 PM UTC Is that all? So blunt answers..
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11:20<samu>fixed "autosave failed" error - it needs the autosave folder there
11:22<@planetmaker>that's why it was suggested to make a *copy*. And not to rename it
11:24<samu>how long should I wait for each savegame to get an error?
11:24<@planetmaker>it's you who found the bug. How shall I know?
11:24<samu>I don't know either
11:25<samu>hmm these saves are 1 year and 11 months game time
11:25<samu>it crashed within 2 years game time, ok let's wait
11:27<zooks>keep saving it until it crashes
11:27<zooks>then upload the save from right before..
11:28<samu>oh wow... it crashed wow
11:29<samu>wasnt expecting to crash again
11:29<samu>so... about the same time period
11:29<samu>1 year and...
11:29<samu>11 months
11:29<samu>that's the same time period infact
11:31<samu>i dont know which savegame to provide, apparently it saves, then crashes right after
11:31<samu>if i load the savegame, it doesn't crash asa
11:31<samu>asap
11:31<@planetmaker>samu, you now loaded an autosave. left it running for time X.
11:32<@planetmaker>thus provide that autosave you loaded, the instruction on how long to watch before crash. And the crash data windows gives you
11:32<@planetmaker>in our issue tracker
11:32<@planetmaker>NOT here
11:32<samu>oki
11:34<samu>whiat is the reported version? there isn't 1.3.1RC1 to pick
11:35<@planetmaker>pick whatever and mention it in the report
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11:37<@planetmaker>or reload the form and pick 1.3.1-RC1
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11:44<samu>it is uploading... (hopefully)
11:45<samu>unless my internet doesn't let me
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11:56<samu>should take 20 more minutes if nothing fails
11:57<samu>brb
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12:14<samu>it failed?
12:14<samu>bah my life sucks
12:15<samu>can't even do something useful
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12:37<samu>planemaker
12:38<samu>it uploaded on 2nd try, is the savegame file intact?
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12:40<samu>trying to attach screenshot image now
12:42<samu>done
12:42<samu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568
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13:41<SineTheCreator>hi all. i've just installed openttd 1.3.0 on windows. it's been a while since i've played. anyways, i can't seem to get tooltips working; when i right-click on buttons nothing happens.
13:41<samu>hover a tip and wait 2 seconds
13:42<SineTheCreator>ahh. is there any way to remove the delay? i remember there being a setting for that in the old days
13:42<@planetmaker>in the adv. settings you find a... setting
13:42<@planetmaker>minimum is 1 second afaik
13:42<@planetmaker>or right click. but that doesn't work in a few cases
13:43<samu>right click hides the tip in my case
13:44<SineTheCreator>planetmaker: it's in the settings now
13:44<SineTheCreator>i found it, thanks guys :D
13:44<SineTheCreator>there is the option to do right-click for tooltips or a delayed hover of X seconds
13:44<SineTheCreator>i wish you could do hover instantly though
13:44<SineTheCreator>those tooltips are pretty useful when you haven't played for a long time :D
13:45<@planetmaker>especially the ctrl+click being explained which has a different effect in many places
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13:49<samu>"pan window when the mouse is at the edge" - this setting never worked right for me
13:49<samu>it scrolls left or right
13:50<samu>but up or down, only if the mouse isn't hovering the top and bottom bars
13:51<+glx>of course they are above the map
13:51<SineTheCreator>is there any way to load newgrf's in a game that has already started?
13:52<@planetmaker>no
13:52<Pinkbeast>Yes, but you probably don't want to do it.
13:52<SineTheCreator>okay. i'll just start over, thanks
13:53<SineTheCreator>i love this game :D
13:53<@planetmaker>:-)
13:54<samu>could i move landscape toolbar when I move the construction toolbar if they're linked?
13:55<@planetmaker>feel free to share your adventures in our scenarios and savegames subforum, SineTheCreator ;-) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=59
13:56<samu>move in tandem, like they're only 1
14:09<SineTheCreator>planetmaker: will do :D thankls
14:09<SineTheCreator>thanks*
14:09<SineTheCreator>one more question - i can't seem to access message settings to disable pop-up messages?
14:10<samu>news messages?
14:10<SineTheCreator>yeah
14:10<samu>those settings moved to advanced settings
14:10<SineTheCreator>ahh, ok. thanks
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14:11<SineTheCreator>any way to disable mousescroll zoom?
14:11<SineTheCreator>i'm using an hp mini with a finicky touchpad
14:11<@planetmaker>SineTheCreator, the adv. settings allow search ;-) use it
14:12<SineTheCreator>nevermind, found it :D
14:12<SineTheCreator>perfect, thanks!
14:17<samu>eww isn't there a possiblity to change the refit + repay loan behaviour?
14:19<@Alberth>change the source code will definitely work
14:20<samu>ok
14:22<samu>if I had' not repayed loan, they would refit and not stop
14:25<SineTheCreator>anyone want to play online?
14:25<SineTheCreator>i'd probably be a crappy opponent, but ... :D
14:25<samu>i want
14:25<samu>but map size must be small
14:25<samu>well, tiny
14:25<samu>because of my connection
14:26<SineTheCreator>okay. how small? 256, 512?
14:26<SineTheCreator>or smaller?
14:26<samu>64x64 seems to work, not sure about 64x128
14:26<@planetmaker>SineTheCreator, there's hundrets of servers online :-)
14:26<SineTheCreator>planetmaker: i guess so, yeah.
14:26<samu>oh, I'm on 1.3.1- RC1
14:27<samu>128x128 doesn't work
14:27<SineTheCreator>ahh. okay.
14:27<@planetmaker>128^2 for MP is a *real* challange. Starts to become one in single player even :-)
14:27<@planetmaker>depending on settings
14:28<SineTheCreator>it's ... tiny, to say the least :D
14:28<Pinkbeast>I find the main difficulty in single player is "oh, it's 1950 and I've done everything, what now?"
14:28<samu>it starts downloading, then stops at about 16 KB dl'ed
14:28<@planetmaker>you definitely play maps < 256^2 differently than maps > 256^2
14:28<samu>bad ISP
14:28<samu>:p
14:32<samu>even refreshing server list feels sluggish
14:34<samu>"don't move away down the list, u game!" - playing catch with a server :o
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14:37<@planetmaker>hm. strange. NewGRF settings window does not respond to delete key. It rather catches and cancels it
14:41<frosch123>works for me
14:42<@planetmaker>stranger then even
14:42<frosch123>ah, i guess you have the cursor in the editbox :p
14:42<frosch123>then the editbox get sthe delete ofc
14:43<@planetmaker>no
14:44<@planetmaker>hm... might be my keyboard settings... as the ^ doesn't open console either
14:44<frosch123>that would also be the case for cursor in editbox :p
14:44<@planetmaker>I should compare here with my workplace computer
14:44<frosch123>anyway, do you have the editable newgrf window?
14:44<frosch123>or the not editable?
14:44<samu>i'm checking that
14:44<samu>happening the same
14:44<frosch123>as the not-editable window with no editbox seems to set the focus into the editbox envertheless :p
14:44<@planetmaker>not editable version of NewGRF settings. In MP game, yes
14:45<frosch123>click in the list to unfocus the non-existing editbox, and it will respond :)
14:45<@planetmaker>ho
14:46<@planetmaker>yes. it does
14:47<samu>tag name filter?
14:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r25307 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-05-31 18:47:49 UTC)
14:47<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Do not focus the editbox in the NewGRF window, if there is no editbox visible.
14:48<samu>what if i check online content?
14:48<samu>cursor goes right to tag name filter
14:48<samu>keyboard cursor that is
14:49<@planetmaker>:-)
14:49<@planetmaker>a quick and agile frosch. Despite temperatures
14:50<frosch123>:)
14:50<@planetmaker>thank you
15:03<samu>hey frosch, there is no crash
15:03<samu>about the bug report - http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568
15:05<SineTheCreator>how do i rotate airports?
15:07<samu>it is Windows doing the crash report instead
15:10<samu>I can locate the windows error report somewhere in windows event manager, I can attach that into the report
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15:10<@planetmaker>SineTheCreator, you don't. Unless you play with the NewGRF OpenGFX+Airports
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15:16<@Alberth>hi hi
15:16<Wolf01>hello :D
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15:26<samu>I found some crash log, that's generated by windows though, hope it's useful. I can't navigate to the memory dump file on my system, can you help?
15:26<samu>it's a .mdmp extension, but windows doesn't find it
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15:55*Rubidium wonders how long it takes till NS cancels the Fyra/Albatros order now that the NMBS has cancelled it
15:55<@Alberth>they still didn't? :o
15:55<@Rubidium>nope... they are awaiting some report
15:55<@Alberth>lol
15:56<@Rubidium>http://1.standaardcdn.be/Assets/Images_Upload/2013/05/31/kabels_2.jpg <- the proper way to mount such cables ;)
15:56<@Rubidium>http://1.standaardcdn.be/Assets/Images_Upload/2013/05/31/cf3b8d80-ca06-11e2-b9cc-1a8fcc649836_web_scale_0.2238806_0.2238806__.JPG <- new panto ;)
15:57<@Alberth>obviously correctly mounted, gives troubles at all times :)
15:58<@Rubidium>http://media.rtl.nl/media/financien/rtlz/2013/NMBS-fyra.pdf <- press presentation (in Dutch)
15:58<@planetmaker>o_O
15:58<@Rubidium>I can't come to any other conclusion than that NS will have to cancel the order as well
15:59<@Rubidium>seriously... we have 9 Fyras of which 2 do not have that many problems that they can occasionally run some tests with them
16:00<@Rubidium>oh, and sorry Wolf01... but I reckon AnsaldoBreda will file for bankruptcy next month
16:00<Wolf01>another one :(
16:05<@planetmaker>ui. Looking bad for them, I guess
16:06-!-samu [~oftc-webi@39.73.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:07<@planetmaker>wtf, that report is a list of ridiculousness
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16:08<@Rubidium>interesting the Belgians only cancelled it today, and the Dutch might only do it next month, right?
16:08<samu>AHA GOT IT!!! I ninja'ed the crash dump before windows deleted it.
16:09<samu>do you want this?
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16:15<samu>hmmm?
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16:27<samu>frosch123: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568
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16:28<samu>if those files are useless, then meh.. I can't think of anything else, sorry
16:28<+glx>samu: we need the files generated by openttd
16:29<+glx>openttd should show its own crash window
16:31<samu>but it didn't show it
16:31<samu>I know how it looks like
16:32<samu>it happened on my report from 29th
16:32<samu>but not this one
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16:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25308 /branches/1.3 (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:49:00 UTC)
16:49<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Backport from trunk:
16:49<@DorpsGek>- Fix: When overbuilding a reserved track with a non-track station tile, that tile would remain reserved and eventually trigger a crash upon removal [FS#5540] (r25251)
16:49<@DorpsGek>- Doc: Update some small parts of the readme (r25278)
16:51<samu>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5568/getfile/9056/OpenTTD%20has%20stopped%20working%20-%20No%20crash%20log.png
16:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25309 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:51:15 UTC)
16:51<@DorpsGek>[1.3] -Update: some documentation
16:52<samu>that's how it looks like when it crashed
16:53<samu>crashes*
16:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25310 /tags/1.3.1 (10 files in 4 dirs) (2013-05-31 20:55:48 UTC)
16:55<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.3.1
16:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r25311 /trunk (3 files) (2013-05-31 20:57:19 UTC)
16:57<@DorpsGek>-Merge: documentation updates from 1.3
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17:04<@Rubidium>blathijs, heffer_, Ammler: new release poke (tarballs there within the hour, I hope)
17:05<samu>is it 1.3.1
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17:05<samu>the plain version?
17:08<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.3.1
17:08-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
17:09<samu>cool:) I will download in 2 hours
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17:30<frosch123>night
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18:50<SineTheCreator>:/
18:50<SineTheCreator>i went through all the trouble of creating a rail steel supply chain and then two of the three iron mines dry up just as soon as its operational
18:50<SineTheCreator>epic fail
19:11<Wolf01>'night
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20:40<Mazur>I read: nobody has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>@seen nobody
20:42<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen nobody.
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>now __ must complain sbout DorpsGek's grammar :P
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 01 00:00:28 2013